Illumination Theory vs The Count of Tuscany

[rumborak]

TCOT, no contest. To me that song is DT's last successful epic.

[1neeto]

Listening to TCOT right now to get a more objective view (still in honeymoon stage with DT12 I guess) and it's a great song, flows great, but it just doesn't have the moments IT has. And that chorus "AAAAAYYYE I want to stay alive" is just I don't know, sounds cheesy to me, especially with that growl. The outro is great though.

[TheGreatPretender]

Listening to TCOT right now to get a more objective view (still in honeymoon stage with DT12 I guess) and it's a great song, flows great, but it just doesn't have the moments IT has. And that chorus "AAAAAYYYE I want to stay alive" is just I don't know, sounds cheesy to me, especially with that growl. The outro is great though.

The growls and MP's vocals in general really bring the overall song down for me. "My brotha!"

[1neeto]

Listening to TCOT right now to get a more objective view (still in honeymoon stage with DT12 I guess) and it's a great song, flows great, but it just doesn't have the moments IT has. And that chorus "AAAAAYYYE I want to stay alive" is just I don't know, sounds cheesy to me, especially with that growl. The outro is great though.

The growls and MP's vocals in general really bring the overall song down for me. "My brotha!"

Same with ANTR, his "day after day, and night after night" part is downright ridiculous and destroys what could otherwise be one of their best songs.

[Sycsa]

"Day after day..." stirred up so much controversy and is so infamous, that alone makes it worthwhile. It will go down as one of the classic moments in DT history. I love it.

[TheGreatPretender]

Same with ANTR, his "day after day, and night after night" part is downright ridiculous and destroys what could otherwise be one of their best songs.

I don't mind that part too much, but I can understand that. Personally, the worst is when he's doing his growls or screaming or whatever, as "backup" vocals for JLB. It doesn't work at all, for me. Which really drags down AROP and TCOT.

[CharlesPL]

IT.

[1neeto]

"Day after day..." stirred up so much controversy and is so infamous, that alone makes it worthwhile. It will go down as one of the classic moments in DT history. I love it.

You know that "infamous" means famous in a bad way right? It's terrible, I can't believe that DT and the producer sat in that mixing room listening to that and nodding their heads telling each other how great that sounds. 

I thought those growls would grow on me, it's been over 4 years and nope, it never did. It's just bad.

[1neeto]

Same with ANTR, his "day after day, and night after night" part is downright ridiculous and destroys what could otherwise be one of their best songs.

I don't mind that part too much, but I can understand that. Personally, the worst is when he's doing his growls or screaming or whatever, as "backup" vocals for JLB. It doesn't work at all, for me. Which really drags down AROP and TCOT.

I agree, except that AROP is just a bad song, growls or not. One of their worst in their library, right there with SDV and IWBY. 

[TheGreatPretender]

I agree, except that AROP is just a bad song, growls or not. One of their worst in their library, right there with SDV and IWBY. 

Well, IMO with Dream Theater, even the songs at the bottom of their library are still awesome. If nothing else, AROP has some great riffs.

[Sycsa]

You know that "infamous" means famous in a bad way right?

You don't say. BTW, it doesn't necessarily mean what the dictionary says, hence Jordan using the phrasing "he's infamous in the drum world" when describing Virgil Donati. The same way how thanks to Michael Jackson "bad" meant "good" in the late '80s. Too bad Lucas and the Power Glove ruined that whole gimmick.

[Outcrier]

Couldn't care less about these two songs.

[TheGreatPretender]

You don't say. BTW, it doesn't necessarily mean what the dictionary says, hence Jordan using the phrasing "he's infamous in the drum world" when describing Virgil Donati. The same way how thanks to Michael Jackson "bad" meant "good" in the late '80s. Too bad Lucas and the Power Glove ruined that whole gimmick.

But... It's so bad... 

[BlobVanDam]

Now I've got "Bad" stuck in my head. Thanks guys.

[bl5150]

Now I've got "Bad" stuck in my head. Thanks guys.

Now I've got the "Fat" video stuck in my head - thanks Blob 

[TheGreatPretender]

Now I've got the "Fat" video stuck in my head - thanks Blob 

Now I've got the Eat It video stuck in my head! Dammit!

[mikeyd23]

IT by a mile...

[JiM-Xtreme]

"Day after day..." stirred up so much controversy and is so infamous, that alone makes it worthwhile. It will go down as one of the classic moments in DT history. I love it.

You know that "infamous" means famous in a bad way right? It's terrible, I can't believe that DT and the producer sat in that mixing room listening to that and nodding their heads telling each other how great that sounds. 

I thought those growls would grow on me, it's been over 4 years and nope, it never did. It's just bad.

Would it blow your mind if I pointed out that the growls were being made by the producer?  Well... one of.

[wolfking]

IT, by about a billion miles.

[1neeto]

"Day after day..." stirred up so much controversy and is so infamous, that alone makes it worthwhile. It will go down as one of the classic moments in DT history. I love it.

You know that "infamous" means famous in a bad way right? It's terrible, I can't believe that DT and the producer sat in that mixing room listening to that and nodding their heads telling each other how great that sounds. 

I thought those growls would grow on me, it's been over 4 years and nope, it never did. It's just bad.

Would it blow your mind if I pointed out that the growls were being made by the producer?  Well... one of.

Which strengthens the point that DT are in a serious need of a producer. They need an outside voice telling them "nope that's terribly mastered" or "nope, that sounds just bad".

I know JP produced the last two albums and I'm too lazy to look up who produced before that. My guess MP and JP. Or MP and MP lol.

[Zydar]

MP and JP produced the albums together starting with SFAM through to BCSL.

[1neeto]

MP and JP produced the albums together starting with SFAM through to BCSL.

Well learned something new.

Wouldn't be absolutely tits if someone like Steven Wilson produced them?

[BlobVanDam]

MP and JP produced the albums together starting with SFAM through to BCSL.

Well learned something new.

Wouldn't be absolutely tits if someone like Steven Wilson produced them?

Yuck. I don't even like SW producing SW let alone him coming near DT.

[?]

SW isn't a fan of DT's music and doesn't have enough time for producing other bands anyway, so it's never gonna happen.

[jayvee3]

I really enjoy sections of The Count, but IT comfortably for me. IT just has that special DT blend that works perfectly in my eyes, and is a monster epic..

[TheGreatPretender]

MP and JP produced the albums together starting with SFAM through to BCSL.

Well learned something new.

Wouldn't be absolutely tits if someone like Steven Wilson produced them?

Maybe Prater is insterested. 

[IdoSC]

Illumination Theory, by a million miles. Sorry guys, but The Count of Tuscany is basically what I consider the slightly lesser evil in DT's worst album yet (more like "least good album yet", but still).

[Octavarious]

TCOT - it's got a better intro and outro (oh GOD that outro is amazing), and for me it is more cohesive as a whole song. IT has some great parts and moments within it's various movements, but it is a bit of a patch-work piece in that it's really stop-and-go in some parts.

Both are amazing, though, in their own right, but TCOT just a bit more so.

-Marc.

It's the 2nd time I have to quote a post of yours, looks like we see things same way...

[Naikon]

TCOT a looong way!! Like someone said, IT just feels like a bunch of different sections thrown together. I like the outro where Jordan plays the piano, but aside from that IT is nothing special for me.

TCOT was the last song with Portnoy, and it has a special place in my heart. I really don´t care about the lyrics, it's the MUSICAL part I care about.

[425]

The Count of Tuscany. And much like many of the IT fans don't get the pro-TCOT comments, I don't get the anti-TCOT comments. It is just straight-up 19 minutes of good song, all killer, no filler. And MP's voice makes it more awesome, so

I can understand why a person would pick IT, and I think that it is still growing for me, so one day that could be my answer, but right now I definitely prefer The Count.

[Madman Shepherd]

IT by a long shot.  The lyrics (almost) ruin CoT.

[Lucidity]

I think both songs had great potential, and were squandered by some poor choices.

[1neeto]

MP and JP produced the albums together starting with SFAM through to BCSL.

Well learned something new.

Wouldn't be absolutely tits if someone like Steven Wilson produced them?

Maybe Prater is insterested. 

Lol we could expect a better sounding snare? 

[ToT-147]

Bah... Both sucks..










hahahaha.. No, I'm kidding... I decided for TCoT but it could've been any of them..

[Outcrier]

The Count of Tuscany. And much like many of the IT fans don't get the pro-TCOT comments, I don't get the anti-TCOT comments. It is just straight-up 19 minutes of good song, all killer, no filler.

It's nice until the "metal part" comes, then the song goes to hell