Illumination Theory vs The Count of Tuscany

[rickhawk80]

This is like choosing between your kids.    I give it to TCOT by a hair at this point, but I do wonder whether I'll feel differently after seeing IT live in a couple months.....

[Marion Crane]

Tuscany by a mile. There's only about 2 minutes of IT that's I actually like. The rest is pretty bad IMO.

[kirksnosehair]

Well, if you removed the orchestra section from Illumination Theory it might come close, but otherwise The Count of Tuscany is a better, much more consistently good song. 


The poll results are surprising given the comments in this thread.

[Dublagent66]

TCOT. 

IT has its moments but is mostly a major disappointment for me.  Most of the album is a diappointment.  High points are TEI and TLG.  The rest is just so-so.

[RuRoRul]

Voted in this ages ago, but don't think I commented.

Illumination Theory is a great song, but I don't think it brings anything special to the table to really put it above other great, epic-length DT songs. The Count Of Tuscany on the other hand is a really special Dream Theater song, and parts of it are, perhaps literally, the best music they've ever produced. A few lines leave something to be desired (although I have no problem with the lyrics as a whole), but that doesn't detract from it enough to take it down from being one of DT's very best songs. Illumination Theory is a great as well, and I don't have any problems with it (if we don't count the minute's silence and ending music as being part of the song) but on the other hand it doesn't have any parts that stand out in DT's catalog quite as much as The Count Of Tuscany's.

[Laughingplace56]

TCOT and IT are just about as close to each other as the results of this poll are. They're both phenomenal songs and almost their two best epics, but I gave IT the edge. I love the main riff in the first verse of TCOT, but I don't love the way that verse flows. It's perfect in the second verse, but it's eh in the first verse. The vocal melody in both verses leave something to be desired as well. As far as the lyrics, the only problem I have with them is the second prechorus and the way JLB/MP sing them in both pre choruses. Other than that, the song's perfect.

In IT, The instrumental section in Live, Die, Kill after the vocals is the only weak part of the song. It's still good, but compared to the rest of the song, it's nothing spectacular. And Surrender, Trust, and Passion feels like it wants to be Razor's Edge really badly, but doesn't quite hit the impact RE has. The rest of the song is outstanding and comparable to TCOT. They're both fairly even to me, but IT comes out slightly higher.

[sylvinception]

I first thought it was a joke...

But, as I already said, I never liked BC&SL...

I wonder if there is a possibility to vote again, for IT of course...again, and again, and again.

(apparently NOT...  )

[ariich]

As much as I love IT, the harmonic richness of TCOT wins out for me. Absolutely gorgeous all the way through!

[sylvinception]

And the lyrics...
Awesome too!!

Not funny ??

[erwinrafael]

As much as I love IT, the harmonic richness of TCOT wins out for me. Absolutely gorgeous all the way through!

Yes, MP's "I!!!" is very harmonic! 

[ariich]

Right, because a single word represents the whole song.

[Jinx]

I'm glad IT is winning. True story - I listened to TCOT last night all the way through foe the first time. I wasnt blown away or anything. But IT is just killer (IMO)

[TAC]

And Surrender, Trust, and Passion feels like it wants to be Razor's Edge really badly, but doesn't quite hit the impact RE has.

Yup, I agree.

[jakepriest]

You can do it TCOT! 

125 / 124

[Jaffa]

Right, because a single word represents the whole song.

What's funny for me is that I actually really like MP's 'I!' during the TCOT chorus.  A lot of people seem to bring it up as a negative, but for me, it's awesome. 

[The Holy Tune]

IT by far for me. Whole song feels better than TCOT. The lyrics, the riffs, the orchestral section(especially after seeing the video they played at the concerts), the great James moments, all the solos...

And I never managed to understand the love for TCOT. I keep listening to it everyday, thinking I can get something for it. Haven't managed to do it so far. Had the same problem with ADTOE, got rid of it by the help of you guys. Willing to help again?

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Right, because a single word represents the whole song.

What's funny for me is that I actually really like MP's 'I!' during the TCOT chorus.  A lot of people seem to bring it up as a negative, but for me, it's awesome.

I like the "I"s, it's the prechorus (let me introduce) that I don't care for. Though that's the only part of the song that I don't care for.

[Jaffa]

Right, because a single word represents the whole song.

What's funny for me is that I actually really like MP's 'I!' during the TCOT chorus.  A lot of people seem to bring it up as a negative, but for me, it's awesome.

I like the "I"s, it's the prechorus (let me introduce) that I don't care for. Though that's the only part of the song that I don't care for.

Fair enough.

For me, I don't really have a problem with any of the vocals, it's just that they don't necessarily make sense with the lyrics.  And that goes for several parts of BC&SL, not just TCOT. 

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Now that I look at it, I'm perfectly pleased with how well the poll results reflect my own feelings for the two songs.

[haceeb]

The Count of Tuscany was/is my favorite but now Illumination Theory is my favorite too. I listen to both now but i voted for IT because it's from my favorite album.

[Theme Dreater]

Wow, this is a pretty close contest! I voted for TCOT. Both songs are excellent, but there is just something about TCOT...I don't know if it's the notes being hit or what, but it just sends shivers down my spine every time I hear it. IT is probably more interesting from a musical standpoint though, and it gets stuck in my head easier.

[cramx3]

I originally picked the count but as time has passed, IT has shown it may be better now. Its a tough call. If I could, id possibly change my vote.

[Rodni Demental]

The Count is was a top 10 DT song for me, but Illumination Theory is really on a whole nother level. IMO it contains everything that makes DT amazing. Packed full of epic riffs, refined arrangement, amazing ambient section, killer solos, soaring vocals, cinematic outro. Hell, it even has silence which they pull off perfectly.  

[sfam2112]

I like both but The Count of Tuscany by quite a few miles.

[JayTor2112]

TCOT for me.  Especially live versions, the interlude is even more emotional live.  It get's the hairs on your arm standing up and gets you a touch misty, then leads into that epic ending.  The intro is amazing, and that main verse riff rips your face off.  Not much negative to say about that song.  IT has its moments, I might be in the minority by saying the orchestreal interlude bores me, and I usually FF to the "Necromancer" part.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Hmm, The Count is actually winning now.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I usually FF to the "Necromancer" part.

Frantically frolic?

[rickhawk80]

Hmm, The Count is actually winning now.

   

[dongringo]

It's exactly 50/50 after my vote for IT (barely.) I gave IT the edge due to the lyrics and Jame's amazing vocal performance at the end. However, it was close. I love TCOT and almost feel just terrible for letting it down. 

[ThatOneGuy2112]

And thus balance was restored to the universe.

[haceeb]

Hmm, The Count is actually winning now.

Hmm, IT is actually winning now.

[Invisible]

Aaaaand another vote for IT! They're both at the bottom half of DT epics, I like them but I am not that crazy about neither of them. It is a good poll as they both share some of the same strenghts and weakneses, I went for IT because of the lyrics, the aren't the greatest, but compared to TCOT they win easily. My problem with The Count is that while the lyrics on themselves are not that bad, they don't fit the music at all, except for some parts. The "MY BROTHAAAA" moments and such are a let down for me. The Count may have a better ending.

None of them have smooth transitions by the way, although on that part TCOT may win by a hair. I do like de riffing and vocals on IT a little better for the riffs, A LOT better for the vocals.

So all in all, IT won by a hair. If the Count had other lyrics, it would have been a serious contender even for the better epics, which kind of a shame .

[LTE3]

Count is more please to ears for me, I can't wait to see Illumination live, but Count seems more original to me, and I always get a good visual in my head with the lyrics. Illumination starts with what seems to me a bunch of pieces that sound all too familiar, although the section that starts at 3:38 I love so much it almost swayed my decision but in the end I have to give it to the Count.

[aprilethereal]

Voted for IT simply because of the "mothers for their children" part and the lyrics, but it's extremely close.

[YOWspotter]

I voted for TCOT, and it wasn't an agonizing decision to make.

I enjoy IT overall but it sounds a bit too much like a sum of parts, some of which I'm not too crazy about.  TCOT, on the other hand, feels like a coherent whole that I just love from start to end.