Have DT lost their "dark side"?

[mikidream]

Yesterday I was watching some videos on YouTube and I bumped into one of the ones where you can listen to all the songs of the AA saga together... let's clarify it, this is not a discussion pro or against Portnoy... but while I was listening to these songs I thought that they where dark, angry and harsh...so my question is: do you think that DT have lost their dark side? The last two albums contain heavy songs and some of them explored difficult emotions and difficult states of mind (as TEI for example) but... I don't know... in my opinion they are not so dark and so "disturbing" as some old songs are, what do you think?

[Kotowboy]

[Kotowboy]

Nightmare to remember is a bout a car crash and behind The Veil is about kidnapping.


Not sure where you're going with this.

[hefdaddy42]

in my opinion they are not so dark and so "disturbing" as some old songs are, what do you think?

I have no idea what you're talking about.  They've never had any disturbing songs. 

[Ravenfoul]

? DT 12 Felt pretty dark. Not awake dark or ToT heavy. Certainly darker than ADOTE.

[425]

I have no idea what you're talking about.  They've never had any disturbing songs. 

Yeah, not even close. I mean, even if you aren't much into darker music, there is no DT song that even comes close to disturbing. Lyrically, the closest they've been is maybe the TTTSTA section of SDOIT, and even that… I just cannot say that it is "disturbing."

[tjanuranus]

I've never in my life thought of DT's music as disturbing lol. In fact the more songs we have like Surrounded and Innocence faded the better! I love the heavy stuff too but I love this new album because it's really melodic.

[mikidream]

Ok guys, maybe it is just me and maybe "disturbing" was the wrong word to use. I wanted just to point out that in my opinion maybe after MP left, the band could have decided to not explore some dark atmospheres that you could find in ToT for example and in most of the songs of the AA saga. Again, if it is just my opinion, no problem.. it is just that I noticed the contrast between the atmosphere of DT12 (that I love btw) and some of  old DT songs mostly written by MP...

[me7]

I agree with your opinion. DT had a darker side to them that was fuelled by MP. It began with The Mirror/Lie and was persistent throughout the AA saga, but also on ToT as a whole and on ANTR and TCOT. "Disturbing" is too strong a word, but the notion is right.
I also think that with ADTOE and DT12, JP and JR focused more on lighter songs (especially on ADTOE) and I hope that that darker side will return in future albums.

EDIT: Add "Beyond this Life" and "Home" to the list of darker songs.

[mikidream]

I agree with your opinion. DT had a darker side to them that was fuelled by MP. It began with The Mirror/Lie and was persistent throughout the AA saga, but also on ToT as a whole and on ANTR and TCOT. "Disturbing" is too strong a word, but the notion is right.
I also think that with ADTOE and DT12, JP and JR focused more on lighter songs (especially on ADTOE) and I hope that that darker side will return in future albums.

Yes thank you, that's what I meant...

[liran95]

IDK, BTV feels pretty dark.

[425]

I'm sorry, but how is Beyond This Life a darker song? Yeah, the lyrics are partially about a murder but certainly have their uplifting elements, and the music includes a trademark DT zany instrumental section, which is not at all dark. Just to name three, Build Me Up, Break Me Down, The Enemy Inside, and Behind the Veil are certainly darker than Beyond This Life.

[The Stray Seed]

In response to the title: no.

[BlackInk]

In response to the title: Yes.

[Bertielee]

In response to the title: no.

[RoeDent]

James LaBrie sounds positively evil in the first verse of Behind the Veil. Anyway, I don't think DT have ever been about the "dark side". If you want that, go for screaming death metal or whatever.

[Sycsa]

Beyond This Life is uplfting, Deep Purple style blues!

[me7]

I'm sorry, but how is Beyond This Life a darker song? Yeah, the lyrics are partially about a murder but certainly have their uplifting elements, and the music includes a trademark DT zany instrumental section, which is not at all dark. Just to name three, Build Me Up, Break Me Down, The Enemy Inside, and Behind the Veil are certainly darker than Beyond This Life.

(Just to clarify: I don't mean the lyrics, not at all, just the music. The stuff that, for the most part, is conceptualised by JP, JR and formally MP before any thought is put into the lyrics.)

Weird, I find BMUBMD very uplifting. Just like Nu Metal should, it tries hard hard to dress itself with evilness but ultimately I feel uplifted by the melodies, especially the chorus. TEI and BTV are heavy, but not dark. Try to compare the intros of ANTR and TEI to get a feel for what I mean with the word "dark". mikidream probably means the same thing.

BTL has an uplifting chorus, but is dominated for me by the downward spirals of the verses and especially the instrumental section. The zanyness only adds to the darkness, kind of like a descent into madness.

[commanderbob]

Angry.

Angry is the word we're all looking for here.  And yes, I believe MP brought an angry-sounding element some of the time, because it seems to be gone now.  I don't have a problem with that element being there, and am not implying that HE is angry, but that he liked that edge in the music.  I like it too.  I like the new direction a little better though.

[hefdaddy42]

Ok guys, maybe it is just me and maybe "disturbing" was the wrong word to use. I wanted just to point out that in my opinion maybe after MP left, the band could have decided to not explore some dark atmospheres that you could find in ToT for example and in most of the songs of the AA saga. Again, if it is just my opinion, no problem.. it is just that I noticed the contrast between the atmosphere of DT12 (that I love btw) and some of  old DT songs mostly written by MP...

Those were the things that were always out of character for DT.  They haven't lost anything, they have just returned to form after those aberrations.

[FracturedMirror]

Ok guys, maybe it is just me and maybe "disturbing" was the wrong word to use. I wanted just to point out that in my opinion maybe after MP left, the band could have decided to not explore some dark atmospheres that you could find in ToT for example and in most of the songs of the AA saga. Again, if it is just my opinion, no problem.. it is just that I noticed the contrast between the atmosphere of DT12 (that I love btw) and some of  old DT songs mostly written by MP...

Those were the things that were always out of character for DT.  They haven't lost anything, they have just returned to form after those aberrations.

DT have always had songs with a darker edge to them.  Killing Hand is dark, and it's from the first album.  And I think that Space Dye Vest is pretty dark as well.  I've always quite liked it, but it has always struck me being quite dark and bleak.  A lot of people think dark means heavy, and vice versa, but that's not the case.

[hefdaddy42]

Ok guys, maybe it is just me and maybe "disturbing" was the wrong word to use. I wanted just to point out that in my opinion maybe after MP left, the band could have decided to not explore some dark atmospheres that you could find in ToT for example and in most of the songs of the AA saga. Again, if it is just my opinion, no problem.. it is just that I noticed the contrast between the atmosphere of DT12 (that I love btw) and some of  old DT songs mostly written by MP...

Those were the things that were always out of character for DT.  They haven't lost anything, they have just returned to form after those aberrations.

DT have always had songs with a darker edge to them.  Killing Hand is dark, and it's from the first album.  And I think that Space Dye Vest is pretty dark as well.  I've always quite liked it, but it has always struck me being quite dark and bleak.  A lot of people think dark means heavy, and vice versa, but that's not the case.

I know that they have always had a dark (and heavy) side.  I was referring specifically to the songs he mentioned.

[j]

Personally, the only album of DT's I would describe as "dark" is Awake.  I agree that "heavy" and "dark" are not remotely synonymous.

-J

[Nearmyth]

DT has not lost their dark side. MP definitely brought an angry-ness and aggressiveness to their latter releases (TOT, SC, BCSL), but DT12 certaintly has its dark moments. The intro of The Enemy Inside is dark, heavy, and evil. Behind The Veil is aggressive and dark yet melodic.

That being said... I think DT does need a generally dark album next, something a bit more edgy, like Awake or ToT. And it's true that dark doesn't always mean heavy. Even Awake's softest songs had a dark edge to them.

[Rhayader]

No, they didn't lose it, and that's the problem. They still do these cookie monster riffs and try to be dark all the time and be evil. They didn't use to do it on the earlier albums.

[TAC]

Nightmare to remember is a bout a car crash and behind The Veil is about kidnapping.


Not sure where you're going with this.

K-boy, I agree!

[fibreoptix]

No, they didn't lose it, and that's the problem. They still do these cookie monster riffs and try to be dark all the time and be evil. They didn't use to do it on the earlier albums.

Cookie monster riffs? You mean like, riffs the cookie monster would play? Is that what this cooke monster thing has boiled down to now?

OT, whilst the darkness has definitely been toned down since SC and BCSL, it's still there a little bit. Just not as prevalent as before.

[senecadawg2]

In terms of subject matter, DT has never been especially dark. In terms of sound, outside of perhaps Awake, they definitely aren't dark.

So I'm not sure what they could've lost.

[Zook]

No, they didn't lose it, and that's the problem. They still do these cookie monster riffs and try to be dark all the time and be evil. They didn't use to do it on the earlier albums.

Cookie monster riffs? You mean like, riffs the cookie monster would play? Is that what this cooke monster thing has boiled down to now?

OT, whilst the darkness has definitely been toned down since SC and BCSL, it's still there a little bit. Just not as prevalent as before.

ME WANT COOKIE

DUNN DUNN DUNNDUNN

Cookie Monster invented the chugga riff.

[Rattlehead]

No, they didn't lose it, and that's the problem. They still do these cookie monster riffs and try to be dark all the time and be evil. They didn't use to do it on the earlier albums.

Cookie monster riffs? You mean like, riffs the cookie monster would play? Is that what this cooke monster thing has boiled down to now?

Yeah, really... what the hell is "cookie monster riff" supposed to even mean? 

[Outcrier]

OT, whilst the darkness has definitely been toned down since SC and BCSL, it's still there a little bit. Just not as prevalent as before.

[King Postwhore]

I'm just waiting for the Dark Lord Sith Mod to respond himself.   Then you'll feel the wrath of the "dark side".

[hefdaddy42]

No, they didn't lose it, and that's the problem. They still do these cookie monster riffs and try to be dark all the time and be evil. They didn't use to do it on the earlier albums.

[philippaopao]

IT's "Live, Die, Kill" feels dark and depressing for me.

[BlobVanDam]

No, they didn't lose it, and that's the problem. They still do these cookie monster riffs and try to be dark all the time and be evil. They didn't use to do it on the earlier albums.

Cookie monster riffs? You mean like, riffs the cookie monster would play? Is that what this cooke monster thing has boiled down to now?

Yeah, really... what the hell is "cookie monster riff" supposed to even mean? 

Whenever someone uses the term cookie monster, it mostly just means they probably don't like heavier metal.


If we're talking "dark", I don't think DT have ever been that dark, but I don't think they've lost any of that on the most recent album. If we're talking "anger", then I don't think they've ever had much of that either, and that's usually an album to album attribute, so I'm not worried about that either.

DT's albums have always mixed and matched their attributes, and if one doesn't click with you, maybe the next will.