Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]

[chrisbDTM]

response on reddit is actually pretty good. i usually go there to read a more honest and sometimes harsher critique.


anyway i love enigma machine

[MarkFitDT]

as per usual repeat plays are the key to DT - loving Enigma Machine on its second limit. Couldnt remember anything the first time.

[JPX]

Here goes - hopefully it generates some discussion. None of this is meant to bash the band - I'm just trying to be as honest as possible. My opinions are also subject to change - these are my FIRST impressions.

Let me also preface this by saying that I fully understand this is based off an online stream. But while the sound quality is lower than the final product, I am commenting on the song writing rather than the sonic quality.

I also need to say that I love DT more than any other band. I feel the need to emphasize this because my general thoughts are quite negative.

False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it's just doesn't do anything musically. It doesn't even function as an overture, it's just there as a poor man's Oculus ex Inferni.
4/10

The Enemy Inside
This song grew on me slightly since I first heard it and I find it decent at best. I think of it like I do Constant Motion, average but I know DT can do much better. Perhaps my favorite vocals on the album however.
6/10

The Looking Glass
Another decent song - I enjoy the verses but the shift in dynamics from verse to chorus really ruins the overall flow for me. They have a nice pace going then they completely slow it down and come in with a really strange vocal choice. I love the breakdown because I love Trial of Tears, but this is a prime example of where the band is just repeating themselves.
6/10

Enigma Machine
For a brand new instrumental I expected way more than this. It's part Rawdog, it's part Systematic Chaos – essentially it's just a bundle of bland riffs and leads that go nowhere. I'm really disappointed with it - perhaps the worst DT instrumental to date.
2/10

The Bigger Picture
The whole song never goes anywhere to me. Feels really SC - especially the second half. It's one dimensional in every way to me and the end feels tacked on.
2/10

Behind the Veil
Not sure if I see the need for 1:20 of 'sounds' (they seem to be the same 'sounds' the resurface in IT). Then we get another minute or so before the song really begins. The verses sound like I've heard them before and the pre-chorus is weird. The chorus itself is ok and the solo doesn't do much for me.
4/10

Surrender To Reason
Most of this song feels like a block of meh – just chords with James singing in vocal style #2.The choir section @ 3:00 is maybe my favorite part of the album however.
3/10

Along For The Ride
Didn't feel this one after they released it, and it's no different in the album context.
4/10

Illumination Theory
Wow is this thing ever disjointed, I don't even know where to begin. Long gone are the days of A Change of Seasons where DT knew how to knit a comprehensive song that was meant to be 20 minutes long. Instead we now get a musical blender of 20 different ideas, none of which flow in or out of each other.
It did offer a surprising small neo classical section which I really enjoyed for 10 seconds or so.
In TCOT the quiet break make complete sense and it fitted within the structure of the piece, but here we get a minute of 'Close To The Edge' sounds, followed by a completely out of place orchestral section.
4/10

Jame LaBrie
It seems to me that James now just has two modes, his breathy ballad vocals and his mid range heavier vocals. He never was the most dynamic vocalist but this record makes me wish DT had more to offer in this department.
2/10

John Petrucci
JP is my favorite musician of all time but I think he's finally run out of ideas in the context of DT. Nothing sounded new here, his rhythms sounded recycled and his leads weren't far behind. I feel like I could reference a past DT song for every single passage he played.
5/10

Jordan Rudess
I'm a huge Jordan fan, but he never really stands out on the record. This worries me especially when I hear his work on LMR which is 100 times better.
5/10

Mike Mangini
So, MM...I'm just going to be blunt here. Mangini is without doubt a talented drummer and a great guy. I just find him to have zero personality in his playing. He seems to rely on extremely repetitive fills, nothing unique or creative. Just fast fills. I can see why DT picked him as the new drummer but I think they made the wrong choice.
2/10

John MyungJM is definitely more apparent on this record in comparison to recent releases. I like the sound they dialed in for him and there are some cool sections, but nothing too memorable.
5/10

[BlackInk]

Aside from the really in-your-face weird and absolutely fake sounding snare drum, this is a pretty good album.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

The hymn in Illumination Theory melted my heart. 

Read that as hymen.

That works too.

[faizoff]

Way too early to rank albums after just one half day of listens. Going to stop listening to DT12 put on some BTBAM, break some stuff and come back to DT12 and see how I feel.

[Zook]

False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it's just doesn't do anything musically. It doesn't even function as an overture, it's just there as a poor man's Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10

How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.

[Lolzeez]

Illumination Theory is the greatest 15+ minute song DT has ever written and is simply the best let alone prog song I've heard the entire year.
Sorry Riverside, The Depth Of Self Delusion is almost perfect.
Sorry Mr. Wilson, The Watchmaker is still your best solo song so far.
Sorry Haken,I still love Pareidolia.
Sorry Spock's Beard, Waiting For Me still is an amazing epic.
Sorry Leprous,I still can't get into your album. But I still think that Echo is an excellent song.

[Buddyhunter1]

I'm still waiting for the actual release to listen, since I actually want to have the tracks on my computer/iPod instead of just listening to a stream, but damn, the sheer amount of mixed opinions here has got me pretty excited.

[Lolzeez]

*snip*

I hated ADTOE. One day I used the album as sleeping music. And It clicked.

[chrisbDTM]

False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it's just doesn't do anything musically. It doesn't even function as an overture, it's just there as a poor man's Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10

How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.

like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department

[MetalJens]

Illumination Theory is miles better than Octavarium

This makes no sense to me at all. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not saying you're opinion is shitty. But strictly speaking in terms of flow and substance, I don't quite understand how this conclusion happens.

Though I'm biased and think that 8VM is DT's best album and the title track is one of my favourite progmetal epics ever.

I kinda agree with Snapple Or well, they are both great songs, and I think Octavarium is better arranged and it feels much more like one whole epic piece, whereas IT feels more like several songs glued together. But I always felt Octavarium was a bit too long, and the first half of it was a bit boring for my taste, so I rarely bother to listen to the whole song. IT on the other hand I feel is just pure awesomeness all the way through Possibly one of my all time DT favorites, but ofc way too early to make such a bold statement...   

[serphirs]

The Outro from Illumination Theory is one of the most precious D.T moments since a long time.
Really, but really loved it.

[matte.braso]

did anyone notice the scat voice heard in studio ep.3? i cannot find it

[JPX]

False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it's just doesn't do anything musically. It doesn't even function as an overture, it's just there as a poor man's Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10

How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.

like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department

So why write a song so similar. SX is one of their main contemporaries in the progressive metal genre. So putting together a piece so close to theirs seems like a really strange choice to me. I'm sure they could have been 'cinematic' without mimicing this song.

[YtseJamittaja]

I have heard this now almost 3 times but I just can't distinguish the red thread here. Every song is like way too different to each other. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I don't know if my opinions will change...

This is way too hard to review after so short time. It's like REALLY big piece of massive chocolate cake. [insert JP's guitar tooooone joke here.]

All I can say now that the best guitar riffs are in Illumination Theory, JLB is really shining here. Definitely the best moments of the album. Behind the Veil's, Enemy Inside's and Surrender to Reason's choruses were the only memorable moments now. Cool things here and there but nothing so special. Looking Glass was a nice surprise for me but it needs definitely more listens. Engima Machine is like Raw Dog II, AFTR is like Beneath the Surface/This Is the Life copy, The Bigger Picture is like Outcry2013. Yes I'm in a critic mood but that's how I feel.

DT is now more progressive than ever which is fine. I have grown a little out of that progressive thing but it's still enjoyable.

One thing I noticed is that Jordan is in smaller role than ADTOE when JP has taken much of Jordan's space here and there. At least in my opinion.

Mike's playing is great as usual but that snare still irritates me so much. It's much much better now than in Soundcloud quality but it's still too distinguishable.

Overall this is better than ADTOE but not a masterpiece. Maybe top5 DT albums if it grows well on me.

[MarkFitDT]

did anyone notice the scat voice heard in studio ep.3? i cannot find it

dont think the scat voice is there but the bit straight after is in Enigma Machine.

The Bigger Picture is starting to click now on 2nd listen!! 

[Ħ]

Some more thoughts.

-"The Enemy Inside" is a lot better than I originally thought. It works very well in its spot on the album.
-"The Looking Glass" is simply INCREDIBLE. I can't get through a proper second listen of the album cause I'm just replaying it over and over, haha. The part at about 3:15 sounds like it was taken straight out of "A Change of Seasons" or "Trial of Tears".
-The run of TEI/TLG/EM is very similar to Awake's CIAW/IF/Erotomania run. They're essentially parallel in structure and purpose.

[jammindude]

False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it's just doesn't do anything musically. It doesn't even function as an overture, it's just there as a poor man's Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10

How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.

like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department

So why write a song so similar. SX is one of their main contemporaries in the progressive metal genre. So putting together a piece so close to theirs seems like a really strange choice to me. I'm sure they could have been 'cinematic' without mimicing this song.

Meh....I bought V because of the hype, and it bored me to tears.   I've never listened to SX since, and as such, I've never heard the piece you're referring to.

....and I completely LOVED FAS. 

[chrisbDTM]

False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it's just doesn't do anything musically. It doesn't even function as an overture, it's just there as a poor man's Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10

How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.

like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department

So why write a song so similar. SX is one of their main contemporaries in the progressive metal genre. So putting together a piece so close to theirs seems like a really strange choice to me. I'm sure they could have been 'cinematic' without mimicing this song.

ehh it's not THAT close. FAS is pretty cool when not comparing to SX's past orchestral suites

[Zook]

False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it's just doesn't do anything musically. It doesn't even function as an overture, it's just there as a poor man's Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10

How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.

like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department

So why write a song so similar. SX is one of their main contemporaries in the progressive metal genre. So putting together a piece so close to theirs seems like a really strange choice to me. I'm sure they could have been 'cinematic' without mimicing this song.

Meh....I bought V because of the hype, and it bored me to tears.   I've never listened to SX since, and as such, I've never heard the piece you're referring to.

....and I completely LOVED FAS. 

Imagine if you put as much research as you do religion into music.

[Perpetual Change]

While listening to this the second time through, I came to the realization that I should really judge Dream Theater similarly to how I judge a band like Rush or Iron Maiden. Is this new album great? No, not by any stretch. But there are definitely a couple of good songs here, as well as one or two really good ones, and a handful of others which aren't so bad. Since DT have already given me so much great music over the years, every quality song they put out from this juncture forward is really just a bonus point on their extensive playlist of great tunes, and the few clunkers they release don't detract from their overall legacy at all.

[YtseJamittaja]

JPX, I can slightly feel you. I just couldn't say it so straight. Thanks for that.

[kevinpwrs]

A little too poppy for me. Ive never liked the poppy side of Dt. I like the heavier songs on this album: Enemy Inside,  Behind the Veil and a good portion of Illumination Theory. Enigma Machine was ok also. A lot of sappy lyrics here also. I was hoping for a more heavy album in the Train of Thought vein.

[aprilethereal]

Meh....I bought V because of the hype, and it bored me to tears.   I've never listened to SX since, and as such, I've never heard the piece you're referring to.

....and I completely LOVED FAS. 

I don't get the Oculus hype actually. It's nice, but the melodies are completely forgettable and unlike most of the SX material, the over-the-top cheesiness just doesn't work in that song. Oculus and Serpent's Kiss are the only weak points of the otherwise amazing Paradise Lost, but they are so weak it's nothing but embarrassing. /inmyopinion

Sorry for off-topic.

[chrisbDTM]

the last quarter of the bigger picture is beautiful AS FUCK

[Ħ]

False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it's just doesn't do anything musically. It doesn't even function as an overture, it's just there as a poor man's Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10

How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.

like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department

So why write a song so similar. SX is one of their main contemporaries in the progressive metal genre. So putting together a piece so close to theirs seems like a really strange choice to me. I'm sure they could have been 'cinematic' without mimicing this song.

Meh....I bought V because of the hype, and it bored me to tears.   I've never listened to SX since, and as such, I've never heard the piece you're referring to.

....and I completely LOVED FAS. 

Imagine if you put as much research as you do religion into music.

Come on, Zook. You think Oculus is better, he thinks FAS is better. It's a difference of opinion. So why don't you lay off a little?

[Zook]

False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it's just doesn't do anything musically. It doesn't even function as an overture, it's just there as a poor man's Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10

How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.

like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department

So why write a song so similar. SX is one of their main contemporaries in the progressive metal genre. So putting together a piece so close to theirs seems like a really strange choice to me. I'm sure they could have been 'cinematic' without mimicing this song.

Meh....I bought V because of the hype, and it bored me to tears.   I've never listened to SX since, and as such, I've never heard the piece you're referring to.

....and I completely LOVED FAS. 

Imagine if you put as much research as you do religion into music.

Come on, Zook. You think Oculus is better, he thinks FAS is better. It's a difference of opinion. So why don't you lay off a little?

He's never even heard Oculus. He wrote Symphony X off after listening to one album.

[FourthHorseman]

Surrender to Reason is soo I&W    

[theseoafs]

Is FAS similar to Occulus Ex Inferni in any way other than that it's a 3-minute symphonic album opener?

Anyway, I'm midway through my 3rd listen to the album (which will be all I have time for today).  I'm really amazed by what the band has done here.  When I first heard ADTOE, the album didn't really have me that excited -- ADTOE was exactly the album I expected them to put out after MP left.  But this one is really something special.  This is a great, surprising, bold album.  Can't wait for the tour.  I hope they play the whole thing.

SOMEONE SAVE ME LOOK BEHIND THE VEIL. PLEASE DON'T WALK AWAYYYYYY

[ariich]

Ok, one and a half listens in, and there is some really fantastic stuff on here. A lot to take in though, so I'm not going to be able to fully form an opinion, but it's all good and some of it is incredible. In particular, DAT ORCHESTRAL SECTION. Probably the most beautiful section of music DT have ever written.

[snapple]

@Zook , there is nothing wrong with writing off a band after one album. If you don't like it, you don't like it.

[Ħ]

SOMEONE SAVE ME LOOK BEHIND THE VEIL. PLEASE DON'T WALK AWAYYYYYY

[jammindude]

Zook...just for you...I'll wipe the dust off V and try another few spins.  (I *always* give everything I listen to "the five spin rule"....but sometimes it takes more...or sometimes it's just bad timing.)

[me7]

In particular, DAT ORCHESTRAL SECTION. Probably the most beautiful section of music DT have ever written.

It probably wasn't even written by all of DT but by JR himself. It makes me curious about his "Explorations for Keyboard and Orchestra".