DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: XJDenton on September 16, 2013, 05:10:33 AM
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US stream: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/dream-theater-channel-prog-metal-in-dream-theater-premiere-20130916
https://smarturl.it/dreamtheaterpremiere - should link to all worldwide partners.
Norway - NRK Pyro
Hungary - Index.hu
Finland - Soundi
Romania - Metal Kathizis
Holland - Revolvers Lust For Life
Chile - Futuro Radi
New Zealand - Groove Guide
Australia - I Heart Guitar
Canada - Bravewords.com
UK - Prog Magazine
Argentina - Rock & Pop
France - Deezer
Italy - Metal Italia
Indonesia - Hai
Greece - Metal Hammer
Denmark - Metalized
Ireland - RTE.ie
Russia - Metal Head
This is obviously exciting stuff and is bound to provoke a lot of discussion. However, there are those among the community that would like to listen to a CD quality version of the album and for that reason I am creating this thread. I would ask the DTF community to obey the following guidelines up until official release of the album:
1. ALL discussion of the album that constitutes a spoiler shall only take place within this thread such that those who wish to remain unspoilt may do so up until the official release date.
2. Normal rules regarding posting of leaked material still apply after the stream has ended. As such, posting links to material that contains material unreleased by official channels after conclusion of the stream is forbidden. This includes stream rips, youtube videos and anything else. DO NOT POST THEM. Report those that do.
Thanks all.
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just under two hours
:caffeine:
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We've still got another 2 hours 37 minutes, it's 12:23 London time right now, I believe.
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You are correct, I screwed up the time difference.
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Thanks dude!
Anyone else with tiny listening parties :angel:
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Thanks dude!
Anyone else with tiny listening parties :angel:
That would be the shit, but I might be listening alone. My roommate is a DT fan but he said he might just wait until the release date. He obviously has more restraint than I do. :lol
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Well, I'm a one-man party, and I'm proud of it! :metal
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Well, I'm a one-man party, and I'm proud of it! :metal
Actually, this made me re-think things. It's a DTF party. We might be separated by space, but we're not by time. The answers to the cosmos lie through the wormhole!
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:caffeine:
The only purpose of this post is that I'm following the thread.
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ahhhh I have work :(
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:caffeine:
The only purpose of this post is that I'm following the thread.
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Where the hell is the link for the stream ??? ??? :censored
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Where the hell is the link for the stream ??? ??? :censored
In the first post on this page...
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I'll be listening later tonight if the stream will (hopefully) still be available. This is the first time that my friend and I can actually listen to a new DT album together :)
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I bet both DTF and progrockmag.com will be down within ten minutes after the stream has started. DTF will for sure :-\
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I'll be listening later tonight if the stream will (hopefully) still be available. This is the first time that my friend and I can actually listen to a new DT album together :)
It's going to be up for a week on ProgRockMag.com.
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^_^ !!!! SOON!
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I'll be listening later tonight if the stream will (hopefully) still be available. This is the first time that my friend and I can actually listen to a new DT album together :)
It's going to be up for a week on ProgRockMag.com.
Ah, I just saw that! Excellent (although that seems rather long in terms of maximizing first week sales).
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I'll be listening later tonight if the stream will (hopefully) still be available. This is the first time that my friend and I can actually listen to a new DT album together :)
It's going to be up for a week on ProgRockMag.com.
Ah, I just saw that! Excellent (although that seems rather long in terms of maximizing first week sales).
It's what most bands do nowadays, but if you ask me, if you're going to stream it a week early, just release it on that day...
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I'll be listening later tonight if the stream will (hopefully) still be available. This is the first time that my friend and I can actually listen to a new DT album together :)
It's going to be up for a week on ProgRockMag.com.
Ah, I just saw that! Excellent (although that seems rather long in terms of maximizing first week sales).
It's what most bands do nowadays, but if you ask me, if you're going to stream it a week early, just release it on that day...
I think the whole point is as a response to the L word (no, not that L word), and also as promotion for early sales. Releasing it a week early doesn't really help with those. I guess it wouldn't be a problem if albums were only digital, but once you're sending out physical copies, it's harder to keep a lid on it getting out.
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Where the hell is the link for the stream ??? ??? :censored
In the first post on this page...
It said the UK stream. Does it matter?
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Where the hell is the link for the stream ??? ??? :censored
In the first post on this page...
Well I mean on the Prog Mag website!!
Too soon ?? :facepalm:
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Full album streams are only for the weak and I'm gonna stay strong :loser:
Seriously though, it's great that I'll only have to avoid this thread until I have the CD in my hands :tup
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Is the "US stream" located at a separate link, or can we assume it'll pop up in the same place at 10 AM?
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Is the "US stream" located at a separate link, or can we assume it'll pop up in the same place at 10 AM?
I was assuming it will pop up in the same place as the link in the OP at 10AM EST.... Not sure if thats correct, but that was my assumption.
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Is the "US stream" located at a separate link, or can we assume it'll pop up in the same place at 10 AM?
I was assuming it will pop up in the same place as the link in the OP at 10AM EST.... Not sure if thats correct, but that was my assumption.
DT's Facebook post said to tune into their page at 10:00 AM EST...I'm assuming the link will be there
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45 minutes to go!
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I'm still having a war inside my head for if i should listen to it.. It's only a week before I'll get my LP... but I'm so weak :'(
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I'll listen to it once and then prepare for the awesomeness of Friday the 20th :2metal:
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DT's Facebook post said to tune into their page at 10:00 AM EST...I'm assuming the link will be there
Ah, good to know, if the link in the OP doesn't work I'll check DT's Facebook! Thanks!
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Why suffer yourselves? Just listen to the stream and then listen to it again when your CD arrives :)
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Why suffer yourselves? Just listen to the stream and then listen to it again when your CD arrives :)
That's my plan. I'll listen to it once today, and then probably won't again until I have the CD.
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I'm waiting until almost 12pm EST so my best friend can get home from class. We're gonna listen to it and freak out over Facebook with each other. :lol Same thing we did with TEI and AFTR.
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Is this something I can listen to later in the day, or is it necessary to be on my computer in 32 minutes?
Edit: well from the post above, it seems like it will be available for more than the initial run through. cool
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There's no award being handed out if you wait until the release to hear the album. I, for one, embrace the full-album streaming and will listen to it all day at least :biggrin:
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Only half an hour to go!!!
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Is this something I can listen to later in the day, or is it necessary to be on my computer in 32 minutes?
I'm assuming it will be up at least until the album is officially released. Usually how streaming works nowadays.
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Why suffer yourselves? Just listen to the stream and then listen to it again when your CD arrives :)
That's my plan. I'll listen to it once today, and then probably won't again until I have the CD.
That was my plan but I'm certain I will listen to it at least 20 times before the CD :lol
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Is this something I can listen to later in the day, or is it necessary to be on my computer in 32 minutes?
I'm assuming it will be up at least until the album is officially released. Usually how streaming works nowadays.
Cool, thanks.
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I rrreeeaaallly wish they weren't doing this, and would instead just let everyone wait until the official release (and simply risk a leak). I feel like it will make the actual release date a far less special occasion, and all the anticipation for this album will be dispelled at a really anticlimactic time. But, despite my feelings towards this decision, I'm still going to listen. I simply can't miss out on this.
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I rrreeeaaallly wish they weren't doing this, and would instead just let everyone wait until the official release (and simply risk a leak). I feel like it will make the actual release date a far less special occasion, and all the anticipation for this album will be dispelled at a really anticlimactic time. But, despite my feelings towards this decision, I'm still going to listen. I simply can't miss out on this.
I do see your point, but on the other hand, I also think it's more special to have everyone able to hear it at literally the same time to discuss fresh, rather than the alternative of dealing with the leak situation.
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Alright, I'm ready! :hat
Expectation level 99937259 right now and raising.
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There's no award being handed out if you wait until the release to hear the album. I, for one, embrace the full-album streaming and will listen to it all day at least :biggrin:
Ok, that does it.. I'm gonna listen to it... I was hoping for award! :angel:
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(https://img.pandawhale.com/70528-wonka-eventually-gif-suspense-Xg8b.gif)
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I do see your point, but on the other hand, I also think it's more special to have everyone able to hear it at literally the same time to discuss fresh, rather than the alternative of dealing with the leak situation.
Aye, that is a good way of looking at it.
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Is it just my internet connection or are the DTF servers already struggling? :panicattack:
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Is it just my internet connection or is are the DTF servers already struggling? :panicattack:
I'm having issues too. Hopefully the forum doesn't implode!
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Wow. Site is moving slow. Tried to login 3 times and it wouldn't let me.
Anticipation high. Full open mind mode set to 'on'
Giddyup...
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There's only about 400 online. I should think it will get worse before it gets better. :P
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There's only about 400 online. I should think it will get worse before it gets better. :P
I'm hoping. A DT release just wouldn't be the same without the chaos and the clutter here on the forums.
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There wasn't "one" release date anyhow. While it was the 24th in the US, it was the 20th here in norway, and even the 18th in Japan, and 23rd in several other countries. Today is in fact the closest to a common date for "everywhere" as we could get.
Kudos to Roadrunner for maintaining the lid on the release until today as well! First time since TOT the album hasn't been available until Roadrunner themselves officially released it.
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I wish everyone a good luck in the amount of lost underwear/pants due to the amount of shredding that is about to take place. :hat
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There wasn't "one" release date anyhow. While it was the 24th in the US, it was the 20th here in norway, and even the 18th in Japan, and 23rd in several other countries. Today is in fact the closest to a common date for "everywhere" as we could get.
Kudos to Roadrunner for maintaining the lid on the release until today as well! First time since TOT the album hasn't been available until Roadrunner themselves officially released it.
Really! In the last week I was cheering against the leak. It's just that it's beautiful to have an album not leak until the day the label decides to stream it for everyone. In 2013!
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The stream is a good way to broaden the audience as well. There's a big chance that someone that's never listened to DT is going to see people talking about the album and will most likely hit the play button in the stream.
No downloading, nothing illegal, and no purchasing. Just an easy way for someone new to listen to the tunes.
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I wish everyone a good luck in the amount of lost underwear/pants due to the amount of shredding that is about to take place. :hat
Don't worry, we've built up a bit of strength in that region. "TEI" kind of prepared us.
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I can't wait for False Awaking Suite to kick people in the face with awesome. :metal
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2 Minutes :metal To Midnighttttt
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1 MIN
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Here...we...go...
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2 Minutes :metal To Midnighttttt
It actually is midnight here too! :metal
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LINK ME
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I can't wait for False Awaking Suite to kick people in the face with awesome. :metal
I can guarantee it will.
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I can't wait for False Awaking Suite to kick people in the face with awesome. :metal
I can guarantee it will.
Um so can I. :lol
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F5F5F5F5
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I can't wait for False Awaking Suite to kick people in the face with awesome. :metal
I can guarantee it will.
Um so can I. :lol
I know, I was just agreeing with you!
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Can't hear it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:panicattack:
https://www.progrockmag.com/news/dream-theater-exclusive-new-album-in-full/
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I can't wait for False Awaking Suite to kick people in the face with awesome. :metal
I can guarantee it will.
Um so can I. :lol
I know, I was just agreeing with you!
Then we're in agreement that faces will be kicked. Ok then! :biggrin: :hat
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"The owner of this track has not made this sound available for streaming in your location."
NOOOOO
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Only UK?!
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Dreamtheater.net is sooooo slow ._.
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https://www.progrockmag.com/news/dream-theater-exclusive-new-album-in-full/
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Only UK?!
:facepalm:
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I'm not going to be able to listen, but I'll watch the reactions
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PA site just crashed on me.
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"The owner of this track has not made this sound available for streaming in your location."
NOOOOO
:tdwn :omg: :eek :\ :| :yeahright :sadpanda: :angry: :sad: :huh: :mehlin >:( :censored :(
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The time has finally come. I can't believe two years have passed already. And what two years they have been for Dream Theater and for me! :)
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ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING? IS IT UK ONLY?
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The owner of this track has not made this sound available for streaming in your location.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Not available.
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[laughs internally]
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False Awakening Suite!!!!!!!!!!! So much :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
Hola Unblocker for Chrome users in the US
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If this is only in the UK I'm going to have to acquire it by other means to voice my disapproval. >:(
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Yep... I can't listen to this either.... ???
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:rollin
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Yep, the MIDI was from false awakening suite.
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Dutch stream!
https://www.lustforlifemagazine.nl/artikelen/specials/9040-exclusieve-stream-nieuwe-album-dream-theater
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Dream Theater Hang in there guys! We'll have a world-wide link in just a few minutes!
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No dice here in Canada.
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Dream Theater Hang in there guys! We'll have a world-wide link in just a few minutes!
Do they not realize how long a few minutes is to a DT fan? :P
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"The owner of this track has not made this sound available for streaming in your location."
NOOOOO
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Yep... I can't listen to this either.... ???
The Hola Unblocker tool for Chrome is allowing me to listen to it and I'm sitting pretty here in TN
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Fail. Global link should have been available before 10am. :mehlin
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I think the internet just imploded, the album stream and GTA V reviews was posted at the same time.. :lol
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There's no award being handed out if you wait until the release to hear the album.
I'm sorry but you're wrong - I'll get a personal medal from DT members and JMX will give me a congratulation speech :biggrin:
Alright, I'll get out of this thread...
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Unacceptable...
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Hola Unblocker for Chrome users in the US
Thank you so much, you are my hero :-* :heart :smiley:
Okay FAS = Oculus Ex Inferni. Even the choirs are in place.
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Dutch stream!
https://www.lustforlifemagazine.nl/artikelen/specials/9040-exclusieve-stream-nieuwe-album-dream-theater
Thanks!
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Hola Unblocker for Chrome users in the US
Thank you, friend!
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Global Link, pleeees!!!!
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Yep... I can't listen to this either.... ???
The Hola Unblocker tool for Chrome is allowing me to listen to it and I'm sitting pretty here in TN
Yeah, unfortunately I'm at work, so I was just going to pull the link up on my phone, put headphones in and listen!
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Man this is so exciting!
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It's beautiful.
*wipes tear*
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False Awakening was cool, needs a couple of listens for me, but seems a great opener! TEI feels old already, haha
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I've got my thoughts written up, but I'll wait until there's a global stream.
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C'mon damnit. We need a link that works.
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First time listening to the album, and I'm already singing along to TEI :metalol:
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Holy shit!! I'm Listening to it!!!!
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I've got my thoughts written up, but I'll wait until there's a global stream.
Really wanting to read them, I'll wait out a little longer.
BTW, after an intro and a song a couple of weeks old, the real new stuff is going to start in a minute! :D
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Norwegian stream: https://p3.no/pyro/offisiell-norsk-albumstream-av-nye-dream-theater/
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Once there is a global link, can we update the original post in this thread please?
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God in heaven... The Looking Glass is totally a nod to Rush...and totally amazing! Just started it...
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I'm loving this "enigma machine." Totally rockin'.
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[spoiler]I really think The Looking Glass is much better than both TEI and Along for the Ride[/spoiler]
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Holy shit!! I'm Listening to it!!!!
How??!?! You're from Finland??
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[spoiler]I really think The Looking Glass is much better than both TEI and Along for the Ride[/spoiler]
100% agree. Not entirely sure why it's not a single to be honest.
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What the fuck? How can I listen to it from Finland?
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Holy shit!! I'm Listening to it!!!!
How??!?! You're from Finland??
Using Hola Unblocker in google Chrome.
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My first thought: I want an instrumental version of the album.
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Dutch stream!
https://www.lustforlifemagazine.nl/artikelen/specials/9040-exclusieve-stream-nieuwe-album-dream-theater
Thanks!
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??? :-[ :-\ :'( ::) >:( :-X :censored
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My first thought: I want an instrumental version of the album.
Ouch. :-[
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??? :-[ :-\ :'( ::) >:( :-X :censored
This
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Hola Unblocker addon for Chrome ftw. Works like a charm.
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THE LOOKING GLASS OMG
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??? :-[ :-\ :'( ::) >:( :-X :censored
This
What's wrong?
EDIT: The Looking Glass is catchy as fuck.
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False Awakening Suite!!!!!!!!!!! So much :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
Hola Unblocker for Chrome users in the US
You sir, just earned yourself a free dinner at my restaurant, or a sweet ass blowjob. Your choice...
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the Looking glass is exactly that kind of Dream Theater that I have been wanting to listen for a long time!!!! Soft, melodic, great guitar solo!
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My first thought: I want an instrumental version of the album.
Ouch. :-[
James still has time to impress me. I've only just gotten through Enigma Machine.
edit: I really liked the intro of "the bigger picture". Soft, melodic, James kicked ass. But then the wall of sound hit...
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The bass breakdown in The Looking Glass is indeed great, wonderful melodic solo too.
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Any complaints about the snare are huge over-reactions and nitpicking. There's nothing wrong with it, sounds great with the rest of the album so far.
And wow, this is good. Real good. Best thing since SFAM. So glad the excessive wankery is mostly toned down. The focus on song writing is apparent and welcomed.
And Myung, finally I can hear you most of the time!
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Does the riff to Enigma Machine remember anyone of Inspector Gadget's theme?
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Holy shit!! I'm Listening to it!!!!
How??!?! You're from Finland??
Using Hola Unblocker in google Chrome.
THANKS THANKS THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :metal :metal
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False Awakening....... :hefdaddy
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the Looking glass is exactly that kind of Dream Theater that I have been wanting to listen for a long time!!!! Soft, melodic, great guitar solo!
its absolutely fantastic. holy shit.
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My first thought: I want an instrumental version of the album.
Ouch. :-[
James still has time to impress me. I've only just gotten through Enigma Machine.
11:25 - 12:05 Illumination Theory. You're welcome.
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Google freaking Chrome? That space dingo sucks bottom juice. I can't be arsed to download that garbage.
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Any complaints about the snare are huge over-reactions and nitpicking. There's nothing wrong with it, sounds great with the rest of the album so far.
I wouldn't go that far. It's a rather different sound for a snare, not just for Dream Theater. I think it's understandable that it won't be to everyone's taste or expectation.
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Totally wasn't expecting the doubletime riff after the intro of Enigma Machine
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My first thought: I want an instrumental version of the album.
Ouch. :-[
James still has time to impress me. I've only just gotten through Enigma Machine.
11:25 Illumination Theory. You're welcome.
I raise you a 15:26 IT onwards.
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Looking glass is brilliant. Enigma Machine just started, and I just had a sex explosion.
Stream quality is great as well, which is a relief.
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That midi !!!!!!! Remember? :D
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False Awakening is incredible. Especially the last movement. My steam restarted halfway through TLG so i get to hear False Awakening in all its glory.
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I can't type as my face is getting in the way as its melting onto my keyboard (listening to Enigma Machine) :hefdaddy
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Anyone who was doubting MM after hearing TEI and AFTR, please listen to Enigma Machine.
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ENIGMA MACHINE IS GOING ALL OVER THE PLACE!!! ;D
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My first thought: I want an instrumental version of the album.
Ouch. :-[
James still has time to impress me. I've only just gotten through Enigma Machine.
11:25 Illumination Theory. You're welcome.
I raise you a 15:26 IT onwards.
No thanks. Not really a fan of any part of that outro. :dunno:
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To those who mentioned Hola Unblocker, THANK YOU!
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so how does someone in the US listen to this??
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Holy shit!! I'm Listening to it!!!!
How??!?! You're from Finland??
Using Hola Unblocker in google Chrome.
Thanks for the tip...opening notes floating through my brain now :metal
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Okay, the Bigger Picture is my favorite so far. Maybe second to Enigma Machine.
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the enigma machine is awesome. this how i like my dt instrumentals.
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I'm being known for not being the biggest fan of JR but on the Enigma Machine he uses great sounds and what an amazing keyboard solos!!!!!!
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Enigma Machine part 1:20 sounds like Raw Dog ! :D
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Wow Enigma Machine is fucking incredible :o
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I didn't even realized Enigma Machine was an instrumental, haha
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on the Enigma Machine he uses great sounds and what an amazing keyboard solos!!!!!!
Yeah! Totally loved his sounds throughout and that solo is crazy!
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No thanks. Not really a fan of any part of that outro. :dunno:
WHAT
HERESY
It's my favorite part of the album, the guitar solo with James' singing over him... goddamn.
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Oh fuck this.
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Holy shit!! I'm Listening to it!!!!
How??!?! You're from Finland??
Using Hola Unblocker in google Chrome.
THANKS THANKS THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :metal :metal
Phew ... seriously .. thank you....
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"False Awakening Suite" complements "The Enemy Inside" really well. "TEI" hasn't sounded this good to me yet. I still want it to hurry up and get out of the way, though, haha!
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Heh, once the album started streaming the amount of hits just exploded on my review as well, almost bringing down the server again...
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I'm at Behind The Veil now, just started listening
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Okay, I really need a stream that works in the US without chrome Hola so I can listen to this on my phone on my way to class.
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That last repeating melody in FAS was really cool, sounds like something from the most recent Sherlock Holmes movies!
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Listening now, and False Awakening was pretty cool, great intro for TEI.
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Behind the Veil reminds me so much of Megadeth. It's weird.
edit: Well, I guess not. It changes gears a lot.
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ADTOE sounds so bland after this Firework called DT12! The Bigger Picture has great Chorus!
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To those who doubted MM's playing on this album, on The Bigger Picture, he says "shove it" :metal
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"False Awakening Suite" complements "The Enemy Inside" really well. "TEI" hasn't sounded this good to me yet. I still want it to hurry up and get out of the way, though, haha!
I thought the same thing, wasn't really that into TEI but when I heard it in the context of the album I just got it. It clicked for me.
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Okay, I really need a stream that works in the US without chrome Hola so I can listen to this on my phone on my way to class.
Yeah me too!!! I'm at work and was planning on listening on my phone!!
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Just got to The Bigger Picture. Holy shit this album is what I've been wanting from DT since SFAM. Concise, proggy, songs. Holy fuck. They nailed it right on the fucking head.
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Behind the Veil reminds me so much of Megadeth. It's weird.
edit: Well, I guess not. It changes gears a lot.
I know the bit you mean. I thought more TBA Metallica, although the verse vocals give off a Megadeth vibe. JLB can sound a bit like him at times, except a zillion times better. :biggrin:
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YEAH, BUT WHEN CAN WE LISTEN IT IN OTHER COUNTRIES THAN NORWAY, UK OR HOLLAND?
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YEAH, BUT WHEN CAN WE LISTEN IT IN OTHER COUNTRIES THAN NORWAY, UK OR HOLLAND?
Right now :P
Concise, proggy, songs. Holy fuck. They nailed it right on the fucking head.
Agreed so much :heart
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Just got to The Bigger Picture. Holy shit this album is what I've been wanting from DT since SFAM. Concise, proggy, songs. Holy fuck. They nailed it right on the fucking head.
This!
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Smartassery not appreciated right now.
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Smartassery not appreciated right now.
Stupid Google bashing not appreciated right now.
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YEAH, BUT WHEN CAN WE LISTEN IT IN OTHER COUNTRIES THAN NORWAY, UK OR HOLLAND?
Step 1: Chrome browser
Step 2: Hola Unblocker app
Step 3: Have your mind blown by DT12
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So I get to work early to listen to this, and
1) my computer HAS to go through a f***in Windows update NOW! :censored :censored
2) then I have to do browser tricks to get the stream going
But better late than having to wait a week :metal :metal
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Fuck me....Enigma Machine.....
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Shit. Unless a working US link comes up, I might not be able to get to Illumination Theory before I have to leave for class >.<
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YEAH, BUT WHEN CAN WE LISTEN IT IN OTHER COUNTRIES THAN NORWAY, UK OR HOLLAND?
Right now :P
Some of us are at work though and don't have Chrome and/or a proxy.
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Listening to Surrender to Reason right now. Holy fuck, I'm in love with this song. :metal :tup :hefdaddy
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So any way for us US'ers without Chrome to listen to this?? I thought it was supposed to be up by now?
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Shit. Unless a working US link comes up, I might not be able to get to Illumination Theory before I have to leave for class >.<
Google Chrome
Hola Unblocker App
Enjoy
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Holy fuck, The Bigger Picture is goddamn amazing. :hefdaddy
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Behind the Veil reminds me so much of Megadeth. It's weird.
edit: Well, I guess not. It changes gears a lot.
I know the bit you mean. I thought more TBA Metallica, although the verse vocals give off a Megadeth vibe. JLB can sound a bit like him at times, except a zillion times better. :biggrin:
I think Megadeth must've definitely been in inspiration corner for this album. I haven't heard "BtV", but I felt a very strong Megadeth vibe from "TEI" the moment I heard it (and I'm not just referring to the obvious "Sudden Death" riff replica).
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I'm halfway The Bigger Picture, enjoying the album so far. Expectations were low based on TEI and AFTR, but I'm liking it much better than I thought I would.
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I was sort of hoping we'd all be going through the album together, but with the rocky start everyone is at different parts of the album. :| This is a bit more of a cluster fuck than I was expecting.
YEAH, BUT WHEN CAN WE LISTEN IT IN OTHER COUNTRIES THAN NORWAY, UK OR HOLLAND?
When you install a browser addon. :neverusethis:
By the way everyone, that Hola Unblocker addon is available for Firefox aswell. If you're using IE...well, you're on your own. :P
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Behind the Veil Has great intro!!! ^_________^ !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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YEAH, BUT WHEN CAN WE LISTEN IT IN OTHER COUNTRIES THAN NORWAY, UK OR HOLLAND?
Right now :P
Some of us are at work though and don't have Chrome and/or a proxy.
Yep, this... Kinda disappointed there isn't a global link..
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Anyone still being unable to listen to the album, maybe the other streams aren't as well region-protected as the UK one? Try the Dutch one.
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YEAH, BUT WHEN CAN WE LISTEN IT IN OTHER COUNTRIES THAN NORWAY, UK OR HOLLAND?
Right now :P
Some of us are at work though and don't have Chrome and/or a proxy.
Yep, this... Kinda disappointed there isn't a global link..
We'll still share the excitement with you once you get a chance to listen! :biggrin:
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Uh, the listening should come much easier to the ears now that the new theme pleases the eyes :D
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https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/dream-theater-channel-prog-metal-in-dream-theater-premiere-20130916
This link works for me in Australia, without using any proxy or browser addon. How about the rest of you?
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Even though I have hola unblocker I can't listen. DAMN!
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Anyone still being unable to listen to the album, maybe the other streams aren't as well region-protected as the UK one? Try the Dutch one.
Thery are all region specific so far. This is a very amateur fashion of releasing a global stream.
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Uh, the listening should come much easier to the ears now that the new theme pleases the eyes :D
What?
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IT = goosebumps :omg: :omg: :omg: :o :o :o
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Damn, what an intro to "The Enigma Machine"! This is the bravery that I felt was missing from the last couple of records!
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Behind the Veil guitar solo....my...God...
:hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy JP
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I tried hola unblocker with Firefox and each website still gives me the middle finger.
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Surrender to Reason is proggy as all hell, and I'm loving it.
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Oh man, the looking glass is GREAT!
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https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/dream-theater-channel-prog-metal-in-dream-theater-premiere-20130916
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https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/dream-theater-channel-prog-metal-in-dream-theater-premiere-20130916
This link works for me in Australia, without using any proxy or browser addon. How about the rest of you?
That works for the US!!!!! Thank you!
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The Megadeth riff in Behind The Veil is better than the last two Megadeth albums combined :P :lol
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Behind the Veil guitar solo....my...God...
:hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy JP
Holy shit lol x____x and that keyboard solo!!! I luv this songs being short without too much shit in the middle like in TDEN, TMOLS, etcetc.
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Thank Fucking God.
I'll have to pause it for class, but I'm on the verge of tears, I'm so excited!
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Uh, the listening should come much easier[...]
Once we admit, we're dying...
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https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/dream-theater-channel-prog-metal-in-dream-theater-premiere-20130916
This link works for me in Australia, without using any proxy or browser addon. How about the rest of you?
US peeps - this link works. Thanks dude.
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US stream: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/dream-theater-channel-prog-metal-in-dream-theater-premiere-20130916
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Rolling Stone link FTW!
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Also works in Sweden. Looks like this one is global!
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False Awakening Suite - Badass little intro. Love it! It's like Overture 1928's evil twin. Instantly spotted the "MIDI section" on first listen, and it sounds so cool in there. And I believe this is Petrucci's lowest tuning, ending on a low G. If this opener doesn't get you pumped up, you're a lost cause. :metal
The Enemy Inside - We've already heard and discussed this one, but it's still great. Straight ahead metal done well. My only issue here is the slight mixing/mastering issues, but the song itself is one of my favourites off the album, and will kick ass live, as these kinds of songs always do. FAS and TEI as a 1-2 punch please.
The Looking Glass - I like the chorus (really catchy), and there are some nice sections, but I don't like the verses much (mostly the vocal phrasing), and the abrupt ending. A song I might listen to in the context of the album, but not on its own. I don't know what the fuss is about tbh.
Enigma Machine - I quite like it, although I'd probably still consider it their weakest instrumental to tough competition. A bit too much riffing/soloing for my expectations. I would have liked something more melodic like Hell's Kitchen of Erotomania. But hopefully they keep up the trend of including instrumentals again though! And this one certainly isn't a bad return.
The Bigger Picture - Overall I don't like it at all. The chorus has that Outcry sort of vibe, which does nothing for me. Not one I see myself listening to, and a skipper for me.
Behind The Veil - A lot of sections I like, especially the first parts, but overall I'm fairly indifferent to it. I don't dislike it, but I don't see myself wanting to listen to it either.
Surrender To Reason - There's a good reason this keeps getting mentioned as a standout! So many beautiful melodies throughout, and one of the high points of the album for sure. This is the one with JM lyrics, right? Definitely worthy.
Along For The Ride - Don't like it at all. Feels like a cross between TITL and BTS, with too much of the BTS vibe that I don't like.
Illumination Theory - I'm kind of mixed on parts of this one, but overall definitely positive. It feels a bit too disjointed overall to judge as one of the big "epics" imo, but I love most of the song though.
The intro is great, with a main hook melody that's as strong as ever, and some groovy riffage. I love the electronic bit before the drums come in playing a similar pattern, and then the verse riff. Great verses too. Heck, I pretty much love all of up until the break!
The ambient chimey section adds nothing to the song though for me though. I love the idea of an ambient section if it's musical, such as in TCOT, but this just feels like a pointless breather that hinders the momentum of the song up till that point. I know it's not a long section, but it feels too long for what it is, and disjoints it as a song.
But after that, the orchestral section is one of the most beautiful things on any DT album (which hopefully isn't too ironic considering it's the one part of the album they're not even playing! :P). I could just listen to that endlessly on its own. It's gorgeous, and full of emotion. It's so suitably cinematic, and it makes me feel like I should be crying. In the good way. I believe JR wrote this section. That man should be writing movie scores in his spare time (if he has any spare time). :clap:
The section after that is badass, with the bass/drum groove, and JLB busting out some mad high stuff, including a high F! You go girl! JLB showing off that he's in top form. :metal That's what I want to hear! Hopefully he can nail it live without busting a nut.
The solo section does have a fair bit of guitar/keyboard soloing, but it's groovy as hell, and I can rock out to it.
But unfortunately the outro section after that doesn't grab me at all, and feels a little cliche, without the real payoff of their other "epics", and almost the exact same drum fill that ends SDOIT, including the gong, and the held chord. A bit of a letdown ending to an otherwise strong song.
I wish the easter egg got turned into a song. It would have made for a nice instrumental section, and I hope it doesn't get forgotten or overlooked because it's just "easter egg". It would make a nice little breather live. Any chance we'll ever hear it live? No idea, but I'd be all for it, maybe leading into another song.
Once you factor in the easter egg, and the filler section, I'm not sure I quite consider this as being included with the ACOS/Octavarium type epics. It sort of bridges the gap between TCOT and Octavarium to me.
Overall, I think I'd rank this album about the same as ADTOE overall. Definitely much higher high points on this one though, but it's hard to compare, because it's definitely different to ADTOE. A step in the right direction after ADTOE too.
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Nice time to roll out the new look, guys!
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Oh my God. The Bigger Picture is very beautiful
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https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/dream-theater-channel-prog-metal-in-dream-theater-premiere-20130916
Alright, let's do this. I'll see you guys on the other side.
Also, new forum theme. Awesome stuff.
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https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/dream-theater-channel-prog-metal-in-dream-theater-premiere-20130916
This link works for me in Australia, without using any proxy or browser addon. How about the rest of you?
US peeps - this link works. Thanks dude.
I figured it would since it's an American website. :P I was just wondering if it worked for other non-US people such as myself.
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FAS... omg this is so good!!
I'm going to love this.
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US stream: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/dream-theater-channel-prog-metal-in-dream-theater-premiere-20130916
THANK YOU! Very excited.
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I'm only a few minutes into 'Behind the Veil', but that's the biggest Images & Words vibe yet that I hear on this album. I like.
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Thank Fucking God.
I'll have to pause it for class, but I'm on the verge of tears, I'm so excited!
Talking about excitement! Holy shit! I must have generated a bucketful of smile already!
edit. Smile xD that's not what I typed
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Uh, the listening should come much easier to the ears now that the new theme pleases the eyes :D
What?
Am I the only one who was switched to a new forum theme about 5 minutes ago? ???
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I tried hola unblocker with Firefox and each website still gives me the middle finger.
I'm only using Chrome on my computers but I'm guessing the app works the same way for FireFox. The website will still tell you that you're in the wrong region. When this happens you have to manually click the little symbol (the flame with a smiley face). Then you'll get to select one of the appropriate regions for the content. In this case (if you're using the progrockmag link) you can click on UK or US. I only tried UK and that works.
If you click the flame again, after you've finished listening, you can select "go back to [insert your original region]".
Good luck.
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Nice time to roll out the new look, guys!
:tup There is a light theme that people can select as well. New themes courtesy of the ever-brilliant XJDenton.
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Uh, the listening should come much easier to the ears now that the new theme pleases the eyes :D
What?
Am I the only one who was switched to a new forum theme about 5 minutes ago? ???
It switched me just a minute after that! Never mind me. :lol
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Surrender to Reason makes me feel like a giddy schoolgirl...so much proggy awesomeness and catchy vocals/riffs!!!! :metal
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Am I the only one who was switched to a new forum theme about 5 minutes ago? ???
nope.. no sir i don't like it.
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Wheeeeeeere's the bass soloooo? :D
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Bigger Picture just destroyed me...what an amazing song...
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Listening to BTV intro...knowing what's coming, I had a devilish smirk on....then :metal great intro
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https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/dream-theater-channel-prog-metal-in-dream-theater-premiere-20130916
This link works for me in Australia, without using any proxy or browser addon. How about the rest of you?
US peeps - this link works. Thanks dude.
I figured it would since it's an American website. :P I was just wondering if it worked for other non-US people such as myself.
Doesn't work here in Canada :censored
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I'm so jealous right now :lol
I can't listen for about another 10 hours.
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Ok O_O here it goes!!! Illumination Theory!
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I just fell in love with The Bigger Picture.
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Illumination Theory - The ambient chimey section adds nothing to the song though for me though. I love the idea of an ambient section if it's musical, such as in TCOT, but this just feels like a pointless breather that hinders the momentum of the song up till that point. I know it's not a long section, but it feels too long for what it is, and disjoints it as a song.
Yeah, I happen to agree with this. It sounds great, but it feels fairy out of place, like it was just slapped into the middle of an existing song, and it doesn't really feel like a part of the greater whole. I actually thought to myself that it's almost an intermission of sorts, you know in long shows they always play some string music in the middle when the band takes a break. :lol
I wish the easter egg got turned into a song.
You and me both. I was wondering before I heard the album that the easter egg would be silly and out of place. Well, it kind of is out of place, but it isn't silly, it's really nice actually. And the first thing I thought was - Why is this not its own song? :metal
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Nice time to roll out the new look, guys!
:tup There is a light theme that people can select as well. New themes courtesy of the ever-brilliant XJDenton.
That another one (the light version) will be my new theme. :)
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I just clicked play and i'm prepared to be swept away!!!
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Anybody who doesn't weep like a girl during the orchestral section of Illumination Theory GTFO.
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https://smarturl.it/dreamtheaterpremiere - Should link to all World Wide Partners.
Country Partner Details
Norway NRK Pyro
Hungary Index.hu
Finland Soundi
Romania Metal Kathizis
Holland Revolvers Lust For Life
Chile Futuro Radi
New Zealnd Groove Guide
Australia I Heart Guitar
Canada Bravewords.com
UK Prog Magazine
Argentina Rock & Pop
France Deezer
Italy Metal Italia
Indonesia Hai
Greece Metal Hammer
Denmark Metalized
Ireland RTE.ie
Russia Metal Head
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Just switched to the light theme, very nice :tup
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Was working in Canada and then I got booted out. >:( :censored
Nevermind, Canadians go here: https://www.bravewords.com/news/210488 :metal
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Anybody who doesn't weep like a girl during the orchestral section of Illumination Theory GTFO.
....or at the very end........
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Have to pause it for the next Hour/hourandahalf for class, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Never mind the album, NEW FORUM THEME :lol
Listening to it in a bit, got some things to do and want to give it my undivided attention. Thoughts forthcoming!
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Anybody who doesn't weep like a girl during the orchestral section of Illumination Theory GTFO.
....or at the very end........
As I said before, I don't like the end at all. :lol
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oh hi new theme!
hate to be the bummer, but alot of this album didn't do much for me. I don't think I'm into DT as much anymore :(
However, my favorite so far has been surrender to reason, with honorable mentions to IT and looking glass.
I'll give it more listens when it comes out, but I'm just kinda bummed that I didn't enjoy this as much as I have enjoyed previous releases DESPITE the fact that this sounds like pretty good DT. I imagine People at the peak of their DT fandom will be/are grinning ear to ear listening to this though :)
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'Behind the Veil' just ended, I at least liked it right away. Not amazing, but still a good song with nice riffs and solos.
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Trial of Tears vibe on The Looking Glass solo.
Shame about the chorus though, COMPLETELY ruins the song.
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Stunning so far.
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Surrender to Reason is amazing. Illumination Theory is about to start!!!
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OMG great grooves in 'Surrender to Reason'!!
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Love the light theme for this album cycle. Great work XJDenton.
Anyway, I am in love with The Looking Glass. A beautiful upbeat rock song. Can't remember the last time DT did something like this.
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I like the new theme. Surrender to reason has gotta be the best song they've done for years.
I totally love this album. Top 5 material, easy. Perhaps even top 3
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I am just absolutely speechless and moved right now, to tears.
Special moment for me. It might not be that way for others but for me right now this morning sitting here, it's special.
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Anybody who doesn't weep like a girl during the orchestral section of Illumination Theory GTFO.
Footage of Blob weeping like a girl at the orchestral section of IT has officially become my #1 most important thing to acquire before I die.
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Everything I've heard so far surpasses the two singles by a mile.
Surrender to Reason: That guitar solo with the phaser-effect on it is so cool! It even sounds like he's hitting some strings by accident, just going for it without worrying about technique too much. That's something JP's not exactly known for, but very surprising and cool to hear.
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Listening now. Holy. Mother. Fucking. Shit. My face hurts.
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I like the new theme. Surrender to reason has gotta be the best song they've done for years.
I totally love this album. Top 5 material, easy. Perhaps even top 3
Top 5...radio charts? Surely you jest. I mean I like it, but I've long since resigned myself to the fact that DT will never be "popular" outside its fringe demographic.
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Surrender To Reason is fantastic, and I like AFTR more and more every time I listen to it.
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IT, here we go :caffeine:
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Unfreakingbelievable...just....damn.
And I miss MP a lot less as of right now.
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The best album since SDOIT, to me, period.
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Fucking A on Surrender to Reason................dat bass....
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The Enigma Machine sounds like a more boring version of the instrumental sections of The Shattered Fortress.
Super dissappointed with it.
Mangini was the wrong choice people, could be a drum machine for all I know.
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I just started the stream and I'm going to have to wait until the CD comes out I think - these stream qualities just aren't great.
That being said, False Awakening Suite reminds me a bit of the opening of The Odyssey by Symphony X.
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I like the new theme. Surrender to reason has gotta be the best song they've done for years.
I totally love this album. Top 5 material, easy. Perhaps even top 3
Top 5...radio charts? Surely you jest. I mean I like it, but I've long since resigned myself to the fact that DT will never be "popular" outside its fringe demographic.
No, no! Top 5 Dream Theater! Should have clarified. Don't want to rank it yet but it's up there with IW, Awake, SDOIT and SFAM.
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The best album since SDOIT, to me, period.
I'm not quite sure yet, but the whole False Awakening Suite really had a strong SDOIT vibe.
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So yeah, this album is pretty f-ing awesome. I like that I can actually hear Myung for a change.
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God YES! The vocal style in Surrender To Reason and dat intro. :heart :hefdaddy
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That being said, False Awakening Suite reminds me a bit of the opening of The Odyssey by Symphony X.
Oculus Ex Inferni
And I'm glad the IT intro isn't as long and boring as the SDOIT overture :D
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Oh shit!! This Classical stuff in the middle of Illumination theory is so beautiful... What a f$ck lol. :angel:
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That being said, False Awakening Suite reminds me a bit of the opening of The Odyssey by Symphony X.
Oculus Ex Inferni
And I'm glad the IT intro isn't as long and boring as the SDOIT overture :D
The SDOIT overture is better.
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So is Enigma Machine actually doomy, or is Rolling Stone fucking stupid with their genre labels per usual? :lol
Can't listen myself right now, as I'm in class heh.
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I thought we might break 1000 simultaneous people online here at DTF with this album stream, but it looks like we peaked at 700 because it's going down. :( Am disappoint.
Everything I've heard so far surpasses the two singles by a mile.
Same here. I can understand why they chose the songs they did, but so far after one full listen TEI is probably my least favourite song, and I'm not really sure about where AFTR would fit, but there's a whole lot of stuff I know I like more.
And I miss MP a lot less as now.
I know what you mean, that thought occurred to me also. The Genie truly has been unleashed for this one. :metal
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The orchestral section in the middle of IT...absolutely beautiful and moving...
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Wait, I think I missed something - listening to the Rolling Stone stream. False Awakening seemed really short and had no vocals. Did they do something wrong?
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So is Enigma Machine actually doomy, or is Rolling Stone fucking stupid with their genre labels per usual? :lol
Can't listen myself right now, as I'm in class heh.
It's not doomy. It's heavy and riffy and a little chaotic.
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So yeah, this album is pretty f-ing awesome. I like that I can actually hear Myung for a change.
For a change? He's way more audible on Train of Thought.
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That being said, False Awakening Suite reminds me a bit of the opening of The Odyssey by Symphony X.
Oculus Ex Inferni
More accurate - thank you! :D
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Wait, I think I missed something - listening to the Rolling Stone stream. False Awakening seemed really short and had no vocals. Did they do something wrong?
No, it's a 2:42 long instrumental. Nothing wrong!
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Wait, I think I missed something - listening to the Rolling Stone stream. False Awakening seemed really short and had no vocals. Did they do something wrong?
It was verified a long time ago that it's instrumental and only goes for 2:42. The stream is fine. :P
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The orchestral section in the middle of IT...absolutely beautiful and moving...
Best Orchestral stuff from DT by miles! SDOIT Overture sounds like child's play compared to that!
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That being said, False Awakening Suite reminds me a bit of the opening of The Odyssey by Symphony X.
Oculus Ex Inferni
And I'm glad the IT intro isn't as long and boring as the SDOIT overture :D
The SDOIT overture is better.
I'd agree if it was six minutes shorter.
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That being said, False Awakening Suite reminds me a bit of the opening of The Odyssey by Symphony X.
Oculus Ex Inferni
And I'm glad the IT intro isn't as long and boring as the SDOIT overture :D
The SDOIT overture is better.
I'd agree if it was six minutes shorter.
HURRRRRRRRRR
It's perfect, you silly man.
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Illumination Theory vocals starting at 11:45...
:hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy JLB
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Wow. The Looking Glass reminds me of Surrounded so much - nothing specific, but the vibe and brightness of it. I've wanted to hear something like this from them since Solitary Shell. Brilliant.
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Illumination Theory vocals starting at 11:45...
:hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy JLB
He goes up to an F5. Only a semitone off THE F#. :metal
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Just started my listen:
False Awakening Suite: HOLY SHIT!!!! Best thing I've heard from them in a long time. Damn!
And so far The Enemy Inside makes a lot more sense in the album context.
I'm more of an album type guy, so singles can usually ruin my experience, but this is fucking A so far.
I said to myself I wouldn't listen to this stream, but apparently, I can't help myself.
This post is incoherent.
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Illumination Theory vocals starting at 11:45...
:hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy JLB
Absolutely stunning! The highest he's ever gone on a verse since Take The Time!
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That being said, False Awakening Suite reminds me a bit of the opening of The Odyssey by Symphony X.
Oculus Ex Inferni
And I'm glad the IT intro isn't as long and boring as the SDOIT overture :D
The SDOIT overture is better.
I'd agree if it was six minutes shorter.
you made me lol but I can't agree with this :lol
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Illumination Theory has started. Along for the Ride wasn't that bad in context of the album. The Enemy Inside has more power, backed by FAS. This album is not bad at all!!
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99% JP is using an 8 string on FAS
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The ambient sounds section of IT just started. The first time I'm slightly let down while listening to DT12 :-\
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-) Where's the bass solo in Enigma Machine?! Or was it supposed to be in IT?
-) Is there a guitar solo in The Bigger Picture....?!
Absolutely stunning stuff....just incredible..I love Enigma Machine
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The orchestra is really nicely arranged, I really want to know if Jordan did the arranging too.
But wonderful, the moment it goes back to DT is great, you nearly forget you're listening to a DT record.
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Nooo way Illumination Theory is great! I'm only in the instrumental intro but Jordan is rockin' it sooo hard!
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Oh my god, the beginning of The Bigger Picture is beautiful.
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99% JP is using an 8 string on FAS
Probably a baritone guitar?
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-) Where's the bass solo in Enigma Machine?! Or was it supposed to be in IT?
Absolutely stunning stuff....just incredible..I love Enigma Machine
The bass solo was a few seconds long
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Illumination Theory has started. Along for the Ride wasn't that bad in context of the album. The Enemy Inside has more power, backed by FAS. This album is not bad at all!!
Just reached it then, and am thinking the same thing. I didn't really like "AftR" at all when I first heard it, but it's a nice fit in the album.
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99% JP is using an 8 string on FAS
hmmm I had the same thought. I don't think this is the case though...
It would be really cool if John busted out and played around with an 8 on the next album though.
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Fuck, the orchestral section of IT, I'm dying. Unbelieveable.
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-) Where's the bass solo in Enigma Machine?! Or was it supposed to be in IT?
Absolutely stunning stuff....just incredible..I love Enigma Machine
The bass solo was a few seconds long
Oke, I got it...a bit disappointing. :/ but apart of that ... :tup
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Ok, imma post my thoughts too.
FAS: Really cool intro, I very much picture it opening the concerts, although it's a bit strange to have an intro for a concert with the actual instruments on it, otherwise I like it, especially the MIDI section.
EI:Rocking on to this metal track! Very catchy chorus and THAT keyboard breakdown :hefdaddy
TLG: Really rushy. I love the chorus and the guitar solo! I don't like the ending, though, too simple.
EM: When Petrucci said something about this track having a spy movie vibe, he wasn't kidding! Amazing work by everyone but especially from Mike :metal dat solo!
BP: holy cow, this track is amazing. It's surely one of the highlights of the album. That chorus! And that finale! Amazing, one of the best tracks in various albums. :metal
BTV: epic intro, really enjoy it. And the riff that comes before the chorus, it's awesome, and I remember writing a similar riff, so it's even more amazing! Really like the whole song, especially the first verse, the chorus and the synth section.
STR: I think this is a grower, it's a pretty complex track, but I really like it. The chorus reminds me of BITS, and omg dat Petrucci solo :eek it's so raw! I really also enjoy the outro. RESTLEEES ANGEELS!
AFTR: Really love this song, it's gorgeous. The chorus is epic and the keyboard solo, my god.
IT: Awesome! A bit too complex, but it will grow on me for sure. Really love the ambient section and all the metal riffs in this awesome track. And James finally shows up! My god, where have you been, man? The ending is epic and so is the easter egg, one of the most beautiful things on the records.
Overall: awesome record! Some songs are a bit too overthetop, but they will grow on me for sure.
-
-) Where's the bass solo in Enigma Machine?! Or was it supposed to be in IT?
Absolutely stunning stuff....just incredible..I love Enigma Machine
The bass solo was a few seconds long
Mostly just transitional fills. Kinda disappointing.
Overall though, this is amazing. Really pumped right now.
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99% JP is using an 8 string on FAS
Probably a baritone guitar?
Baritone drop G sounds likely.
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99% JP is using an 8 string on FAS
Probably a baritone guitar?
This.
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The orchestra is really nicely arranged, I really want to know if Jordan did the arranging too.
But wonderful, the moment it goes back to DT is great, you nearly forget you're listening to a DT record.
Nope, it was written by Jordan but Eren arranged it and conducted the string section in the studio.
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BTW the ending of IT really epic, super-grandiose, nearly Flower Kings-like, really lovely. Love the orchestra in the ending too.
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The orchestra is really nicely arranged, I really want to know if Jordan did the arranging too.
But wonderful, the moment it goes back to DT is great, you nearly forget you're listening to a DT record.
Nope, it was written by Jordan but Eren arranged it and conducted the string section in the studio.
They both did a phenomenal job.
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The Bigger Picture has a lot of memorable moments. I love it!
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Hahaha! Jordan is using a patch called 'Communing With Wales' from Omnisphere. I was just playing around with those patches yesterday, and I suddenly heard it pop up in the ambient section of IT.
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Enigma Machine is booooooooooring... a song with no personality.
The first two tracks are very good, almost excellent.
The Looking Glass is just... there.
-
Far surpassed any expectation I had. As always the test will be if I want to pull this out a year from now.
But as of this moment I'm totally blown away. This really does harken back to I&W and Awake for me. JR toned it down
except where he is expected to let loose. JP is just a god on this. Amazing guitar work throughout the whole album.
Mix is 10 times better than ADToE. I'm really pretty speechless but how good this is. At this time, on this day, the self titled
album lives up to the hype!!!
Congrats DT.
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The orchestra is really nicely arranged, I really want to know if Jordan did the arranging too.
But wonderful, the moment it goes back to DT is great, you nearly forget you're listening to a DT record.
Nope, it was written by Jordan but Eren arranged it and conducted the string section in the studio.
They both did a phenomenal job.
Wonderful melody, but the arrangement makes it shine.
Love the ending guitar solo of IT, goosebumps.
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99% JP is using an 8 string on FAS
Probably a baritone guitar?
This.
Ehhh...I'm not so sure. It doesn't have the tone of the baritone. There is a distinct sound out of that guitar. (These Walls, Blind Faith, Panic Attack)
This guitar sounds more like an 8 string JP model, if they even made him one. I could be wrong though. Just an observation.
-
Hahaha! Jordan is using a patch called 'Communing With Wales' from Omnisphere. I was just playing around with those patches yesterday, and I suddenly heard it pop up in the ambient section of IT.
Wales or Whales? :lol
-
Everything is so tight and awesome. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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The Enigma Machine sounds like a more boring version of the instrumental sections of The Shattered Fortress.
Super dissappointed with it.
Mangini was the wrong choice people, could be a drum machine for all I know.
ITT JPX demonstrates a staggering lack of drumming comprehension.
Because, yo, some of the shit he's doing in there is just fucking inhuman and memorable all at the same time. Genie - 1, my brain - 0.
-
I just finished the album! I wasn't dissapointed! :3 It's hard to say this with just one listen but The best thing about it was the Orchestral section of IT
-
Noooo I was dreaming away during the orchestral section, and then the stream stopped playing.
-
Wow, a lot of people on. I guess it means it's time to take a crack at listening to this album.
-
Wow...that first listen flew by in a flash!
I have nothing but positive things to say about each song. At my current emotionally-high state, I can't rank it as of yet...
All-in-all, there was a load of :metal followed by :hefdaddy and frequent instances of :omg:
-
5 minutes into "Illumination Theory". Probably the most satisfying thing I've heard on this album so far.
-
I'm listening TEI again :rollin
-
Halfway through and I am surprisingly disappointed with this album. John Petrucci is saving it for me. TEI and BTV are standing out for me.
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Ye gods, this is the most diversity they've demonstrated since SDOIT or possibly I&W. THIS is what progressive music should be. Fantastic.
-
5 minutes into "Illumination Theory". Probably the most satisfying thing I've heard on this album so far.
Just wait till you hear the orchestral section :o
-
The bit at the end of IT reminds me of World of Wonders by Beyond the Bridge
-
This album is boring me... But that could just mean it's too much to digest on first listen. I'll definitely give it a few more listens before judging.
-
Quite possible best highlights since Six Degrees, but also a lot of songs that I can't even recall 5 minutes after my first listen. Let's see how this will stand the test of time. Illumination Theory alone might get on my top 3 DT songs, but the album? I'm not so sure.
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THIS is what progressive music should be. Fantastic.
Haken - The Mountain.
Oh wait, wrong thread.
I'm liking DT12 so far.
-
First major thought on the album as a whole after the first listen: This album has MONSTROUS choruses. They did great with the choruses on ADTOE (Outcry and BITS especially), but they really knocked it out of the park here.
-
The Bigger Picture is good in all the sections James is not singing. I think I have grown not to like his voice at all.
-
Is it just me or does the beginning of Surrender to Reason sound like a slowed down version of the opening riff of The Enemy Inside?
-
The Enigma Machine sounds like a more boring version of the instrumental sections of The Shattered Fortress.
Super dissappointed with it.
Mangini was the wrong choice people, could be a drum machine for all I know.
ITT JPX demonstrates a staggering lack of drumming comprehension.
Because, yo, some of the shit he's doing in there is just fucking inhuman and memorable all at the same time. Genie - 1, my brain - 0.
I know exactly what I'm listening to. TEM is flat and the drumming shows me nothing.
This album could be the end of my wonderful relationship with DT. I was expecting it to a degree but it is being realized.
-
I can't believe the "DT12" stuck, the dumbest fuckin option we could have went with.
I'm pretty excited about streaming when I get home, seems like most people are enjoying it!
-
Man, JP knows how to play the guitar! What a monster player that man is! :metal
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This album is boring me... But that could just mean it's too much to digest on first listen. I'll definitely give it a few more listens before judging.
Well, yeah. Lot of stuff going in and out.
I really liked it at the very first listening, including Behind The Veil and Enigma Machine that are pretty complex, but there was something so captivating.
The Enigma Machine sounds like a more boring version of the instrumental sections of The Shattered Fortress.
Super dissappointed with it.
Mangini was the wrong choice people, could be a drum machine for all I know.
ITT JPX demonstrates a staggering lack of drumming comprehension.
Because, yo, some of the shit he's doing in there is just fucking inhuman and memorable all at the same time. Genie - 1, my brain - 0.
I know exactly what I'm listening to. TEM is flat and the drumming shows me nothing.
This album could be the end of my wonderful relationship with DT. I was expecting it to a degree but it is being realized.
This.
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On the bigger picture right now. my thoughts so far..
#1. The guitar sound!!! holy s!!! just like he described!!! creamy, rich and layered!
#2. I love DT albums with short songs and one or two over 10min.. It really do it for keeps me really interested.
#3. I'm liking the mix and drum sound... i have no problems with it.
Wow just got to the break at the bigger picture.. (5:00 mark) and I loved it.
-
Not a fan of the mix, also, where's the bass?
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OMG Illumination Theory is one of the greatest things they've EVER done!
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I guess I can cry like a child while listening IT 16:10 - 18:00 section. James sounds amazing and hits to you right to the heart with his emotional voice.
-
Hahaha! Jordan is using a patch called 'Communing With Wales' from Omnisphere. I was just playing around with those patches yesterday, and I suddenly heard it pop up in the ambient section of IT.
Wales or Whales? :lol
Oh.. uh Whales it is :P
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I'm kind of in shock at how much I loved this after 3 listens.
-
DAT BASS UNDER THE SOLO ON THE LOOKING GLASS. :metal
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John Petrucci upped his game AGAIN?
-
STR is really good. A grower for sure. John Petrucci is delivering the Betty Crocker factory and not just chocolate cake. The sound quality for a stream is quite good. Have to say that some of the vocal arrangements are odd sounding to me and I'm skipping AFTR as I just don't like it. I hope Illumination Theory blows me away on first pass.
-
Another thought: Anyone who complains about a lack of bass on this album is broken.
-
That was emotional. I'm pretty worn out now.
It's been a pleasure, guys.
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Another thought: Anyone who complains about a lack of bass on this album is broken.
Might be my shit earbuds, but I can't hear it.
That was emotional. I'm pretty worn out now.
It's been a pleasure, guys.
Sorry if I was a little rough.
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Another thought: Anyone who complains about a lack of bass on this album is broken.
Might be my shit earbuds, but I can't hear it.
It's your shit earbuds. Perfectly audible on my shit computer speakers :lol
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
No way
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AAAAH!!!! DT, YOU COMPLETE AND UTTER LEGENDS! WOW! THEY'VE DONE IT AGAIN!
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
Today is "Opposite Day" and I didn't get the memo....?
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Another thought: Anyone who complains about a lack of bass on this album is broken.
I'd say the same about most DT albums people complain about lack of bass on. He's perfectly audible here.
-
John Petrucci upped his game AGAIN?
Yup! I am just amazed by his guitarplaying on this album. It is unmatched!
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
Not really sure how to respond to that. Closest I've come to saying an opinion is wrong :lol
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The frasing of the lyrics at the end of TBP is wonderfuly diffrent.
First reactions, really solid, Enigma Machine stands out so far. (At behind the veil atm)
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
Not really sure how to respond to that. Closest I've come to saying an opinion is wrong :lol
Haha, glad I wasn't the only one who thought this :tup
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Another thought: Anyone who complains about a lack of bass on this album is broken.
Might be my shit earbuds, but I can't hear it.
Yeah, I have reasonably solid earbuds (Cheap, but quite effective and they've been mentioned as a good option for people who want solid sound quality but without spending hundreds of dollars), and the bass sticks out very well.
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
Today is "Opposite Day" and I didn't get the memo....?
I'm not saying that my opinion won't change but barely anything impressed me first time through. Sorry guys, I don't relish saying that in any way. :(
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There are a lot of great and memorable Myung moments and Mangini moments. The rhythm section is really a star on this album!
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
Not really sure how to respond to that. Closest I've come to saying an opinion is wrong :lol
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
There's no way this album is worse than WDADU!
I'd rank this in the lower half of their discography, but it's by no stretch their worst album.
Hopefully it grows on you after more listens. :)
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My god. The riffs in IT are fucking great. Wow that was seriously one of the best songs they have done since Octavarium. The groove was there!! Yessss. And that drum and bass breakdown was incredible.
My first reaction to the album is pretty positive. I'm going to have to listen to it a bunch more times because there was so much to take in.
I thought the singles felt really good inside the album though. I enjoyed them a lot more within the context.
The tail end of IT is really awesome too.
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The keyboard riff at 12:20ish in IT totally sounds like Legacy by Vince DiCola. I love Vince's music so that's awesome!
Legacy:
https://youtu.be/QS9m9aCsPxI?t=2m24s
Love the album, i can tell its going to be one that grows on me as well.
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So much diversity!
Another solid album :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :metal :metal :metal :tup :tup :tup
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Well, it's not perfect, but it's a beautiful album. There's a lot more to say about it, but I'll leave it at that for now.
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OMG Illumination Theory is one of the greatest things they've EVER done!
It is my favorite 20+ minute song from DT.
-
NM
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After 5 listens, I can say Illumination Theory is probably a top 5 song, and Enigma Machine their best instrumental bar Hell's Kitchen and maybe Eve.
Maybe it's too soon to say that sorta stuff, but fuck, this is good. AND HOLY SHIT I CAN HEAR MYUNG EVEN BETTER THAN ON ADTOE
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
There's no way this album is worse than WDADU.
I'd rank this in the lower half of their discography, but it's by no stretch their worst album.
This album is clearly better than SDOIT without even trying... :neverusethis: (but seriously...it might actually be...)
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Just completed my first listen. That was overall better than what I expected after hearing TEI und AFTR. Not feeling all of the songs yet, but there were certainly some standout moments here and there. And if I listen some more I think I will find some more. :D
But I think I'm going to wait with that until I've got the CD in my mailbox. The soundcloud quality was ok for that one listen, but still noticeably worse than CD quality.
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Honestly, saying that this album is weak after one listen is pretty crazy. I can already tell this album has a lot of layers that need dissecting to fully appreciate everything. This is probably their most layered and varied album since SDOIT, so it's going to take some time to reveal itself. Even Noxon said he wasn't overly fond of the album at first, but it grew on him, IIRC.
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After one listen I can only say: self-titling this was an excellent choice. Any gripes I may have with it are useless, because this record is totally 'Dream Theater', both old and new era. I couldn't possibly want more out of it. If I don't want to hear badass riffs, epic chord progressions, sick solos and soaring melodies, I'm gonna have to listen to something else.
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In the end, IT reminded me a lot of Octavarium. Octavarium is, in my opinion, their most grandiose epic they have written thus far, and didn't find this particularly bad, but then the cliched progressions dragged it down for me.
And yeah, I don't really like this album that much. I actually liked ADTOE better. This doesn't give me any chills at all except in one place - in IT, at around 15:30, when the drums kick in.
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The keyboard riff at 12:20ish in IT totally sounds like Legacy by Vince DiCola. I love Vince's music so that's awesome!
Legacy:
https://youtu.be/QS9m9aCsPxI?t=2m24s
Love the album, i can tell its going to be one that grows on me as well.
And yet you didn't mention the intro of BTV using basically the main melody of the Transformers soundtrack. Shame on you. :biggrin:
Which explains why I like that intro so much. :D
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That string section in IT.....
I'm in love. That was the coolest transition from metal to ambient to string.
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Thoughts thus far: better first impression than ADTOE. Liking the mostly shorter, more compact songwriting. JMX and MM are the stars, but everyone is awesome.
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Ill post my thoughts that I wrote on mp.com
"So something amazing happened at work, I was able to listen to the entire album without any interruption, no texts, or calls or coworkers needing anything.
Just being able to work on my own with headphones on with the stream in the background. Something that never happens on a monday morning.
I honestly don't know what to say, after last night's Breaking Bad episode I didn't think I'd get another emotional shakedown so quickly.
This album on just one listen has left me speechless. I don't think I felt the same way when I listened to ADTOE.
Beautiful, grand, restrained, apt, focused, Rush, Black Sabbath's Paranoid, Dream Fuckin Theater....Just some thoughts that occurred to me while listening to this album.
I can see what people are saying about the snare sound. The mix of the webstream is a lot better than I thought. Man I'll be listening to this incessantly now.
Wow. "
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
There's no way this album is worse than WDADU!
I'd rank this in the lower half of their discography, but it's by no stretch their worst album.
Hopefully it grows on you after more listens. :)
WDADU is just dated. But the songs stand the test of time.
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
There's no way this album is worse than WDADU.
I'd rank this in the lower half of their discography, but it's by no stretch their worst album.
This album is clearly better than SDOIT without even trying... :neverusethis: (but seriously...it might actually be...)
Shouldn't be too hard ;)
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OMG Illumination Theory is one of the greatest things they've EVER done!
It is my favorite 20+ minute song from DT right after ACOS
FTFY
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DAT BASS UNDER THE SOLO ON THE LOOKING GLASS. :metal
There was a bass solo on The Looking Glass?
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After one listen I can only say: self-titling this was an excellent choice. Any gripes I may have with it are useless, because this record is totally 'Dream Theater', both old and new era. I couldn't possibly want more out of it. If I don't want to hear badass riffs, epic chord progressions, sick solos and soaring melodies, I'm gonna have to listen to something else.
My thoughts exactly! They touched upon almost everything I could even imagine in terms of their strengths and signature "DT" passages, etc. A truly solid album. I can't wait to "spin" this again in a few minutes after I re-collect the pieces of my blown mind
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
There's no way this album is worse than WDADU.
I'd rank this in the lower half of their discography, but it's by no stretch their worst album.
This album is clearly better than SDOIT without even trying... :neverusethis: (but seriously...it might actually be...)
I don't want to drag down the new album, but nothing since SDOIT has even been in the same league as it. There's a reason the phrase "best album since SDOIT" has become so common. SDOIT is a high point that will never be topped again.
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DAT BASS UNDER THE SOLO ON THE LOOKING GLASS. :metal
There was a bass solo on The Looking Glass?
He means the bass under the guitar solo, silly :lol
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DAT BASS UNDER THE SOLO ON THE LOOKING GLASS. :metal
There was a bass solo on The Looking Glass?
No, talking about the bass under JP's solo.
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
There's no way this album is worse than WDADU.
I'd rank this in the lower half of their discography, but it's by no stretch their worst album.
This album is clearly better than SDOIT without even trying... :neverusethis: (but seriously...it might actually be...)
I don't want to drag down the new album, but nothing since SDOIT has even been in the same league as it. There's a reason the phrase "best album since SDOIT" has become so common. SDOIT is a high point that will never be topped again.
I agree. SDOIT is by far my favorite DT album.
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I actually would rank this lower than most albums DT have recorder from the first impression alone. I think this album is a grower, though. I'm still not digging the cliche melancholy feel and sentimental religious undertones.
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I don't want to drag down the new album, but nothing since SDOIT has even been in the same league as it. There's a reason the phrase "best album since SDOIT" has become so common. SDOIT is a high point that will never be topped again.
I've personally always had a really tough time ranking their albums, with the exception of WDADU which I barely include in the discography.
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The keyboard riff at 12:20ish in IT totally sounds like Legacy by Vince DiCola. I love Vince's music so that's awesome!
Legacy:
https://youtu.be/QS9m9aCsPxI?t=2m24s
Love the album, i can tell its going to be one that grows on me as well.
And yet you didn't mention the intro of BTV using basically the main melody of the Transformers soundtrack. Shame on you. :biggrin:
Which explains why I like that intro so much. :D
Huh, totally didn't hear that in BTV. Are you talking about the quiet part at the beginning?
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WDADU is just dated. But the songs stand the test of time.
WDADU didn't even stand the test of the time it took to listen to it. :biggrin:
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I think the sound quality of the stream is pretty awful. Then again, I can quite listen through it and I think it will sound absolutely awesome when I can play it in my CD player.
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I don't want to drag down the new album, but nothing since SDOIT has even been in the same league as it. There's a reason the phrase "best album since SDOIT" has become so common. SDOIT is a high point that will never be topped again.
In my mind, 'SDoIT' was the best possible follow-up to their high point.
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I don't want to drag down the new album, but nothing since SDOIT has even been in the same league as it. There's a reason the phrase "best album since SDOIT" has become so common. SDOIT is a high point that will never be topped again.
In my mind, 'SDoIT' was the best possible follow-up to their high point.
Their high point being Images & Words, obviously.
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First listening finished.
I liked a lot Enigma Machine, The Bigger Picture, Surrender To Reason and Illumination Theory.
Mangini playing is superb in this album, and I enjoy having Myung "back" in the band :)
Still I´m not enjoyng at all how the album sounds.
I´m going to start listening once again now.
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Great album, like it very much on first listen. IT is definitely highlight for me but I heard many cool moments.
Bass is audible but I would like it to be cleaner. Petrucci is beast and James is unleashed after safer play with ADTOE :P
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The keyboard riff at 12:20ish in IT totally sounds like Legacy by Vince DiCola. I love Vince's music so that's awesome!
Legacy:
https://youtu.be/QS9m9aCsPxI?t=2m24s
Love the album, i can tell its going to be one that grows on me as well.
And yet you didn't mention the intro of BTV using basically the main melody of the Transformers soundtrack. Shame on you. :biggrin:
Which explains why I like that intro so much. :D
Huh, totally didn't hear that in BTV. Are you talking about the quiet part at the beginning?
0:47 of BTV
2:27 of Death of Optimus Prime (or any other part that uses the same melody)
For a few notes, it's similar. :blob:
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Six Degrees of Illumination Theory :tup
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I don't want to drag down the new album, but nothing since SDOIT has even been in the same league as it. There's a reason the phrase "best album since SDOIT" has become so common. SDOIT is a high point that will never be topped again.
In my mind, 'SDoIT' was the best possible follow-up to their high point.
Their high point being Images & Words, obviously.
That was the staircase to the high point. What followed was just transcendent, though.
-
First Impressions:
#1. It was really good.
#2. See #1 again.
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I don't want to drag down the new album, but nothing since SDOIT has even been in the same league as it. There's a reason the phrase "best album since SDOIT" has become so common. SDOIT is a high point that will never be topped again.
In my mind, 'SDoIT' was the best possible follow-up to their high point.
Let's not split hairs, friend! SFAM and SDOIT are both high points. Which of the two you put first is trivial when dealing with perfection.
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0:47 of BTV
2:27 of Death of Optimus Prime (or any other part that uses the same melody)
For a few notes, it's similar. :blob:
Ah, indeed it is veeeeeeery close up until where JR goes low with the notes. :D I do things to hear them play Attack on the Shuttle, but I digress!
I actually think FAS, BTV and TBP are my favorites so far. Everything else needs to soak in still (wasn't very warm on TEI at first but like it a lot now).
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IT will be really cool live. That silence and then JR and JP come back in will be really cool... maybe they'll expand it live. I wonder how they'll handle the orchestra live. Just a tape?
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Not a fan of the mix, also, where's the bass?
You can't hear the bass?! It's unbelievably loud!
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That didn't suck....
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Starting now. Holy crud, FAS is freakin epic
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Man, the chorus is so damn good on BTV. JPs riffing behind James' wonderful delivery just sets it off.
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Wow!! What a freaking powerhorse this album is!!! So much energy! Probably the most balanced rollercoster :P
Unfortunately, I am a bit disappointed concerning the bass....
Guitars are absolutely god-like (really, really!), as well as the drums and the keys even though I think that they were even more diverse on ADTOE
I cannot exactly clarify what I think about JLB..I thought he had amazing parts in ADTOE which were a bit missing here..so overall I'd say: mediocre-good!
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So I've heard everything except for IT, and assuming IT is as good as the other non-ITPOE Dream Theater epics, this is shaping up to be one of the best DT albums ever. Incredible, tight songwriting. Great, catchy choruses, probably the best I've heard on a DT album.
Not sure if it'll be good enough to knock SFAM out of the top 3 spot for me, but we'll see.
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First listen... My God.
:drool:
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Stream quality better than I expected
STR and IT are my favorites. Love the melody in STR; the instrumental part starting in 2:32 mark is great.
and IT is amazing all around, especially the orchestra part and the second half of the song.
The second half of the album outshines the first so far
Enigma Machine didn't click with me and so did a few other songs. This album should be a grower
Bass is audible, drums sound much better now
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I think I'm going to do a preliminary ranking of the songs on the album just to see how radically my opinions change as I explore it further.
1. The Bigger Picture
2. Illumination Theory
3. Surrender to Reason
4. Behind the Veil
5. The Looking Glass
6. Enigma Machine
7. The Enemy Inside
8. Along For the Ride
9. False Awakening Suite (It's great, but it could use to be expanded a bit more I think)
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Oh my gosh, TEI is freakin epic
-
I frickin have goosebumps now on my 2nd listen.
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Oh my gosh, TEI is freakin epic
It is in the context of the album! Damn.
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Surprising number of Rush influences. Like, Moving Pictures Rush.
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First listen and I think its just ok. Hope it grows on me. Was actually bored in a couple of spots. As I sit here now, I'd say that Lost Not Forgotten, Bridges in the Sky and Breaking All Illusions are better that anything on this album.
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I frickin have goosebumps now on my 2nd listen.
Yeah, this album is pretty "chilly." Particularly Illumination Theory has a lot of moments that just bleed emotion (The ambient section and the outro especially). I can already tell The Bigger Picture's chorus is going to stick for a long time.
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Starting now. Holy crud, FAS is freakin epic
It's completely unoriginal however. Not good when SX already wrote the same thing 6 years ago.
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Starting now. Holy crud, FAS is freakin epic
It's completely unoriginal however. Not good when SX already wrote the same thing 6 years ago.
I don't remember Symphony X writing False Awakening Suite? ???
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OH SHIT THE INTRO TO ILLUMINATION THEORY :metal
YEAAHAAAAAAHAHAHAAAA
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Starting now. Holy crud, FAS is freakin epic
It's completely unoriginal however. Not good when SX already wrote the same thing 6 years ago.
Nah, arrangementwise there are similarities. But the core, i.e. the melodies, are completely different.
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Starting now. Holy crud, FAS is freakin epic
It's completely unoriginal however. Not good when SX already wrote the same thing 6 years ago.
I don't remember Symphony X writing False Awakening Suite? ???
I don't know why, but this really cracked me up :rollin
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Up to Behind The Veil. So far, not bad...not bad at all.
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Starting now. Holy crud, FAS is freakin epic
It's completely unoriginal however. Not good when SX already wrote the same thing 6 years ago.
I know it didn't click on you but that's a bit mean :biggrin:
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>2013
>Complain about DT wearing influences on their sleeves
>k
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I'm on The Looking Glass now and it's freakin epic
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Just got through my first listen, and I think this album is beautiful!! Its going to take several more listens to wrap my head around it, but a few quick thoughts:
1. JP is unreal, just when I think the guy can't get any better, he does! Great all around performance!
2. MM was great, the drum sound didn't really bother me at all listening through the whole album, and this was stream quality.
3. JMX standout performance, his bass lines were great and memorable in many places, tone was great and he sat really well in the mix, best impression I have had of his work since SDOIT.
4. JR used a lot of great taste on this album, he let loose when he needed to, and held back when he needed to. Also the parts he wrote for the orchestra were simply stunning.
5. JLB sounded great as well, good melodies and tone. I really thought there were a lot of good catchy vocal sections, and his high verse in IT was great!!
Overall first impression is positive, I think this album is strong. Now to listen more!! :metal :metal
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Illumination is no theory. It's fact! First impressions:
Great!
Can't wait to hear the album some more, I'm very impressed. The order of the tracks had a nice flow to it. Vocally, LaBrie really saves the best for last in IT.
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I'm on The Looking Glass now and it's freakin epic
I can predict that Enigma Machine will be freakin epic as well for you :lol
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I cant wait to listen to this on 5.1 hopefully the mix is fantastic on that.
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First listen... My God.
:drool:
I'm pretty sure I said that during every song and phrase (as well as some previous posts :lol)
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Starting now. Holy crud, FAS is freakin epic
It's completely unoriginal however. Not good when SX already wrote the same thing 6 years ago.
I know it didn't click on you but that's a bit mean :biggrin:
I wasn't trying to be mean or insulting. It's just a fact. It sounds very similar and it starts the record like it does on Paradise Lost.
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I actually really like the mix. It sounds like IAW. Which actually works with what they're trying to go for here.
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Holy FUCK does JLB kick ass during The Pursuit of Truth.
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So on second listen now, and TBP is really great. That whole ending section is fantastic. Great riffs and grooves in the whole song. And the I AM HOOOOME with those harmonies to end the song is brilliant. Great transition into the next song btw.
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Wow, "The Bigger Picture" is SO much better on the second listen. It didn't grab me at all when I first heard it, but damn is it a pleasant song once you give it the chance to sink in.
Just got through my first listen, and I think this album is beautiful!! Its going to take several more listens to wrap my head around it, but a few quick thoughts:
1. JP is unreal, just when I think the guy can't get any better, he does! Great all around performance!
2. MM was great, the drum sound didn't really bother me at all listening through the whole album, and this was stream quality.
3. JMX standout performance, his bass lines were great and memorable in many places, tone was great and he sat really well in the mix, best impression I have had of his work since SDOIT.
4. JR used a lot of great taste on this album, he let loose when he needed to, and held back when he needed to. Also the parts he wrote for the orchestra were simply stunning.
5. JLB sounded great as well, good melodies and tone. I really thought there were a lot of good catchy vocal sections, and his high verse in IT was great!!
Overall first impression is positive, I think this album is strong. Now to listen more!! :metal :metal
Yep, I think I agree with all of this. Especially with the points you made about JP and JR. They both displayed great showmanship and great discipline.
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I actually really like the mix. It sounds like IAW. Which actually works with what they're trying to go for here.
Yep I agree, even on a Soundcloud stream I thought the mix was pretty good!!
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Pretty solid on 1st listen. The 8th rock album of 2013, I've listened to, and it's pretty good. Everyone on their game as per usual. I enjoyed the Looking Glass and the nods and bits that is similar to Limelight.
Illumination Theory is the usual epic-long enjoyable journey. Overall, this album is a good winner.
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So on second listen now, and TBP is really great. That whole ending section is fantastic. Great riffs and grooves in the whole song. And the I AM HOOOOME with those harmonies to end the song is brilliant. Great transition into the next song btw.
Wow, "The Bigger Picture" is SO much better on the second listen. It didn't grab me at all when I first heard it, but damn is it a pleasant song once you give it the chance to sink in.
Well, it's nice to know that we've got a bit of a consensus forming :).
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Yep, the string section in IT is pretty much the best thing ever. :hefdaddy
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TEI, BTV, STR are stand-outs for me. I love them. Illumination Theory has its moments at times but the orchestrations are horrible and way too Disney for my taste. Really poor compared to TCOT, 8va, ACOS and others. John Petrucci is the strongest on this album both tonally and musically. He absolutely shines above everyone else. Overall, you cannot judge a DT album on 1 pass, but compared to their other albums on 1 pass I will say that I am really disappointed by a lot of the songwriting and the styles on this album. There are highlights in many places but very little makes we want to come back for more. Time will tell what grows on me what becomes a permanent skipper. I almost feel as if this album was over thought out.
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I have not had this reaction to a new DT album yet since becoming a fan. The first new album that came out since I started listening was SC. This album is easily right up with 8v for me and FAR surpasses the last 3 albums.
I'm seriously fucking excited to keep listening to this over and over right now.
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So its my first post here, and what would be better subject than this! First impressions on the new album: pretty good but i was expecting something even more awesometacular. None of the songs really blew me away, not even illumination theory, but i guess this album will take a few spins to sink in properly. :hat
Favs right now are illumination theory and the bigger picture!
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Noooooo! My internet went down right in the middle of Enigma Machine! My first impression of the album is RUINED! :'(
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First impressions:
FAS: Filler
TEI: Good
TLG: Great
EM: Stupid
TBP: Good
BTV: Nice
STR: Great
AFTR: Nice
IT: Bunch of songs throw together, but good overall.
*Easter Egg: Great... Pick this theme and make DT13 a concept album :tup
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Listened to the first two tracks, couldn't wait but I can't go further at work heh
So if I get this right False Awakening is made with concert intro in mind, as in the music that plays before we see the band like Dreaming is Collapsing, JP or JR said that in some interview, but that song doesn't really work that way to me, it kicks ass but I wanna see them play it, not as an intro tape..
We'll see how it plays out. can't wait for U.S tour dates.
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I'm on The Looking Glass now and it's freakin epic
I can predict that Enigma Machine will be freakin epic as well for you :lol
hm, yes I'd give it a freakin epic/10 as well
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That solo lead on Bigger picture! around the 4 min slays! Now off to read noxon's review.
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First impressions:
FAS: Filler
TEI: Good
TLG: Great
EM: Stupid
TBP: Good
BTV: Nice
STR: Great
AFTR: Nice
IT: Bunch of songs throw together, but good overall.
*Easter Egg: Great... Pick this theme and make DT13 a concept album :tup
But isn't DT12 a concept album already?
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REEEESTLEEESS ANGEEEELS
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What's the Easter egg?
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What's the Easter egg?
The piano and guitar section at the very end of IT after the minute or so of silence.
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What's the Easter egg?
The piano and guitar section at the very end of IT after the minute or so of silence.
Ah, of course.
Derp.
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Btw DT>Coal>The Mountain
Best Prog release of the year.
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But isn't DT12 a concept album already?
I wouldn't say that. It's a thematic album (noxon's review is correct that there seems to be a religious-spiritual thread flowing throughout), but I don't know if it's strong enough to make it a concept album.
The band certainly doesn't consider it a concept album. They were asked in one of the Q&A videos whether they would make another concept album in the future, and if they considered it a concept album, they certainly would've said "oh yeah, by the way, our self-titled is a concept album".
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In another interview JP basically said 'DT12 is NOT a concept album', so there we have it. The band said it themselves.
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as of right now I think I like The Bigger Picture the most. It really blew me away.
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Oh, good to know, cause here I was thinking that Dream Theater was the concept.
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Unfreakingbelievable...just....damn.
And I miss MP a lot less as of right now.
i miss MP a lot right now
The Enigma Machine sounds like a more boring version of the instrumental sections of The Shattered Fortress.
Super dissappointed with it.
Mangini was the wrong choice people, could be a drum machine for all I know.
i quite agree
more thoughts..
very mainstream except from 1 and 9. thinking should have not been self titled album? not so DT-ish. more Metallica marching beats. hehe. they really targeting to be popular as ever which is good anyway??!?!! grammy again :smiley:
second safest JLB album ever (ADTOE first) saved via IT and the backup vocal towards the end of AFTR in the right channel (love it!). i really miss the like of "trap inside this octavariuummm!!"
and lastly don't compare with SDOIT, it is way too much better
OTBOA = TEI, BTS = AFTR but they are the better ones than the rest
IT rocks! = #1
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Btw DT>Coal>The Mountain
Best Prog release of the year.
not so really proggy.
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Does the riff to Enigma Machine remember anyone of Inspector Gadget's theme?
Glad I'm not the only one ;D
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I agree that MP's drums had a personality, but saying Mangini was the wrong choice is a bit extreme.
I'm on Behind the Veil, and so far my only complaint is that James should be higher in the mix and clearer.
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going to listen to this shit on my headphones. i've been doing chores all day, so it's time to sit and listen to it for realz
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Huh, opinions are funny things! I'm not sure how anyone could listen to that and say that MM didn't play well and wasn't the right choice for DT, but I guess everyone's different.
You could totally point out certain parts or sections and comment on how you didn't care for his part creation or groove, but overall I don't see how people could be so negative about his performance. I thought he played brilliant, what a talent!!
I guess everyone will take things different ways though, like I said, opinions are certainly funny things sometimes!
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God damn James stole the show on Illumination Theory.
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Illumination Theory is the best epic they've done since ACOS.
Yeah I went there.
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Btw DT>Coal>The Mountain
Best Prog release of the year.
:lol
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Preliminary post-first listen thoughts: it ain't no '90s era DT, but I'm satisfied. I kinda wish IT was arranged a little differently. I'm in agreement with most everyone here; that orchestral arrangement just about made the album for me. As a result, the part that followed made me groan a little - not that it was bad, but it was basically like TCoT all over again, and felt like an unwanted gear change from what seemed like an interesting and novel structure choice by the band. It would've been better served as being a separate song or by coming before the orchestral section, so that sort of whimper to the album's bang could've closed the endeavor out in a meaningful way.
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The string section in IT is so beautiful.
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I'm hoping to be blown away. I remember how excited I was the first time I heard the intro to "Outcry". I hope there are some moments like that on this album.
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I'll go ahead and state the obvious. JP will someday do a film score.
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Too early to give any definitive opinion, but maybe:
Stand-out tracks: Behind the Veil, Along for the Ride & Illumination Theory.
The album sounds like a new beginning and it sounds original.
It's more accessible (and commercial) than any other album they have ever made.
There are some very complex parts, more complex than anything they did before - it seems Mangini is capable of things Portnoy could never do.
It seems something is missing. :huh: Maybe the album sounds too calculated?
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I'm sorry guys....but there are times where the snare is so bad it's distracting. Listen to the beginning of TBP. The snare is so gated it's insane. And most of the toms sound like Rick Allen from Def Leppard's electronic kit. Really digging this album musically, but the drum sound is something I don't think I'll ever get over
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Only Just started and FAS sounds like a Final Fantasy Boss Theme :metal
p.s. Loving the new forum theme ! :hefdaddy
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Too early to give any definitive opinion, but maybe:
Stand-out tracks: Behind the Veil, Along for the Ride & Illumination Theory.
The album sounds like a new beginning and it sounds original.
It's more accessible (and commercial) than any other album they have ever made.
There are some very complex parts, more complex than anything they did before - it seems Mangini is capable of things Portnoy could never do.
It seems something is missing. :huh: Maybe the album sounds too calculated?
yes, im thinking it's more like commercial. and maybe your right about "new beginning".
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I've always been a sucker for songs with Myung written lyrics, so it should come as no surprise that Surrender to Reason is my favorite song on first listen. Though, I'm only just now getting to IL
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I have to say...The Enigma Machine pretty much killed the momentum for me. I found myself bored with the songs that followed, even though you guys clearly thought they were awesome. I'll have to listen to them on their own.
I'm on Surrender to Reason though, and it's :metal.
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Jesus, IT is insane. That RIFF! Best riff on a DT album in a real long time. Then that bass and drum rhythm after the string section. That is what I'm talking about!!! Bravo.
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I'll go ahead and state the obvious. JR will someday do a film score.
FTFY. :biggrin:
Oh hell, DT should just write movies scores!
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Yeah.....The Bigger Picture really did nothing for me honestly. I hope it grows on me, but so far that's the definite skipper on my first listen
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I'm going to have to listen again before giving a full insight into each song, but parts I remember as being highlights were FAS, the intro to EM, the intro to BTV, IT being really groovy and kicking in sooner than I expected for an epic, the ambient section, the orchestral section made me FUCKING CRY! James of course made me WTF all over the place. By the end, I couldn't contain myself. I NEED TO FUCKING SEE THEM LIVE OMG.
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What the f*ck was that :omg:
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Holy shit the intro to Illumination Theory :hefdaddy
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TEI is really mediocre, and TLG is average.
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DT12 is for me mix of emotion ! I love it so much ! BUT ILLUMINATION THEORY TOTALLY KILL ME !!!!!!!! Its masterpiece :hefdaddy ..Easter Egg is the most beautiful part from Jordan... absolutely great ! No word
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The easter egg at the end makes me feel really weird inside, and I don't know why. It's a good kind of weird. I just can't put my finger on what exact effect it's having on me. Maybe the tune is similar to a piece of music I heard from days of yore, and it's bringing back forgotten nostalgic feelings. Or maybe it's just simply the reaction that I happen to have to that particular piece of music. I dunno. It was a good way to end the album, though, for me personally; it finishes things on an interesting note, and gets me in a real reflective mood.
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After two listens, i have to say this is a different album than the previous ones. Something feels different, and i dare to say fresh.
Didn't really care for Enigma Machine, i think it lacks any good melodies.
Illumination Theory has some amazing moments, but i think that it's a bit disjointed, like parts being crammed together without really flowing.
Mangini does a great job, some amazing cymbal work which emphasizes his ambidexterity. If only his drums sounded better.
At last Myung is present both from a playing and a mixing standpoint. Really happy that he is present on most songs with interesting basslines.
Overall i think it is a good album, i like that they have crafted songs that are proggy but not dragging too long, and it seems that Mangini is finding his place in the band. A bit disappointed with Illumination Theory, although it has some great parts, it doesn't feel like one song.
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Enigma Machine for me = :metal and also :lol this is why I love DT.
Initial Vibe = Images & Words + Awake + Octavarium = DT12.
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The easter egg at the end makes me feel really weird inside, and I don't know why. It's a good kind of weird. I just can't put my finger on what exact effect it's having on me. Maybe the tune is similar to a piece of music I heard from days of yore, and it's bringing back forgotten nostalgic feelings. Or maybe it's just simply the reaction that I happen to have to that particular piece of music. I dunno. It was a good way to end the album, though, for me personally; it finishes things on an interesting note, and gets me in a real reflective mood.
It felt like the ending of a movie. Where youre leaving the theater after watching an amazing, emotional, roller coaster of a movie. Something to reflect what just happened.
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After two listens, i have to say this is a different album than the previous ones. Something feels different, and i dare to say fresh.
Didn't really care for Enigma Machine, i think it lacks any good melodies.
Illumination Theory has some amazing moments, but i think that it's a bit disjointed, like parts being crammed together without really flowing.
Mangini does a great job, some amazing cymbal work which emphasizes his ambidexterity. If only his drums sounded better.
At last Myung is present both from a playing and a mixing standpoint. Really happy that he is present on most songs with interesting basslines.
Overall i think it is a good album, i like that they have crafted songs that are proggy but not dragging too long, and it seems that Mangini is finding his place in the band. A bit disappointed with Illumination Theory, although it has some great parts, it doesn't feel like one song.
Typical RR-era album closer then.
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The easter egg at the end makes me feel really weird inside, and I don't know why. It's a good kind of weird. I just can't put my finger on what exact effect it's having on me. Maybe the tune is similar to a piece of music I heard from days of yore, and it's bringing back forgotten nostalgic feelings. Or maybe it's just simply the reaction that I happen to have to that particular piece of music. I dunno. It was a good way to end the album, though, for me personally; it finishes things on an interesting note, and gets me in a real reflective mood.
Its felt like the ending of a movie. Where your leaving the theater after watching an amazing, emotional, roller coaster of a movie. Something to reflect what just happened.
Petrucci did say the album was structured like a movie.
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I'll go ahead and state the obvious. JR will someday do a film score.
FTFY. :biggrin:
Oh hell, DT should just write movies scores!
agreed! :metal
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Holy shit....Behind The Veil......Jordan's lead, into Petrucci's lead :hefdaddy
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The Looking Glass is my least favorite so far but It owns BMU BMD so I'm okay.
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My thoughts after the first listen was more positive than negative, though I wasn't blown away or anything. I think the best word I could use for the album would be "solid". Gone are the long-for-the-sake-of-being-long songs, and I feel like the songwriting is more focused and concise on this album, a bit more cohesive. I like that they went for something similar to Awake, where most songs are under 7-8 minutes, instead of cramming in an instrumental part for the sake of it.
Illumination Theory was my favorite after the first listen. The ambient and orchestral parts especially stood out to me as moments when DT tried to do something different, and I really enjoyed those parts. For the most of it, the album felt like "more of the same", in the sense that it's DT sounding like DT, which can be both good and bad. Unlike several of the previous albums, I didn't come across a single song that I really disliked, so I feel like the lowpoints were higher this time. On the other hand though, none of the songs really stood out, or caught my attention so to speak.
6/10 - Good effort, might listen more.
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Holy shit, this album is solid.
Favorites after two listens:
Surrender To Reason
Illumination Theory
The Looking Glass
The Bigger Picture
All the songs are great, though! FAS is heavy as shit and I love it.
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Great album so far ! [ I'm on The Bigger Picture ( gosbumps everywharrrr ) ]
Think this will make my top 5 overall.
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When the chorus comes in The Looking Glass I want to break out in "Living in the limelight, the universal dream". They get their Rush on in this one :tup
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I'm sorry guys....but there are times where the snare is so bad it's distracting. Listen to the beginning of TBP. The snare is so gated it's insane. And most of the toms sound like Rick Allen from Def Leppard's electronic kit. Really digging this album musically, but the drum sound is something I don't think I'll ever get over
This.
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By the way, is anyone reminded during the last vocal harmony of TBP of the end of Strange Deja-Vu?
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The Disney soundtrack in the middle of IT is a bit out of place and emulates TCoT, but I'm only on my first listen so maybe the flow will sound natural with more listens.
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Long time no see DTF.
Can't say I'm over impressed with this so far. FAS was the silliest start to a record I've heard in many a year.
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So first impressions;
Amazing.
There's a lot going on, and it will take a few listens to really process it, but I absolutely loved it. It felt like they really let loose with this one, and at times went places that they've never been before. Lost of really cool stuff on this record. I can't wait for my LP copy to show up!
I absolutely loved how in sync MM and JMX sounded at times. Also, those who said MM's snare tone might work better in the context of the whole album... yep. Turns out that it does. I already felt that he was definitely the right choice for the band, and this album confirms it.
Also, JMX just shines on this record! So much fantastic playing from him, and you can actually hear it! :biggrin:
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:rollin
The Enigma Machine sounds like a more boring version of the instrumental sections of The Shattered Fortress.
Super dissappointed with it.
Mangini was the wrong choice people, could be a drum machine for all I know.
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One listen through and I have no complaints. Zero. Every moment was enjoyable and there were numerous extraordinary moments complete with chills, grins, head banging and awe. I remember being surprised (in a good way) with The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil and Surrender To Reason--especially STR.
This album is what I want from DT so I'm feeling pretty fortunate to be in the demographic they were aiming for. Makes me just a little sad for those who don't like it. Okay, maybe not that sad. :biggrin:
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By the way, is anyone reminded during the last vocal harmony of TBP of the end of Strange Deja-Vu?
This. At the end of that one I started singing "All your eyes have ever seen...."
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Sure there are a few songs/lps where Myung is not quite as loud as I would like, but this idea that you can never hear him is getting old. He was all over ADTOE and several others.
So yeah, this album is pretty f-ing awesome. I like that I can actually hear Myung for a change.
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After one listen, this album kicks ASS. Way too early to try and rank/rate everything, but I loved it. This is the first album where I heard and felt something magical since 6DOIT. :metal
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Oh My ... That riff at 2:13 in Behind The Veil. Fuck YES.
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listening to it right now. sounds amazing...the only thing i don't like so far is that fact i have to be in the rollingstone website for it.
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The Instrumental section in Behind The Veil is totally I&W.
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Listened through everything but Illumination Theory. I gotta save something for next week. Only listened once. First impressions.....
Heavy. Diverse. Epic. Different from what I had pictured from the song titles alone.
False Awakening Suite: Definitely a good opener for the show, but not quite as epic throughout the song as I'd imagined. Great beginning, though I wish it had blended into TEI.
The Enemy Inside: Still awesome. Better in the context of the album.
The Looking Glass: Chorus is great, but as a whole, pretty unmemorable after one listen.
Enigma Machine: My first thought when it got going was the Pink Panther on steroids. Definitely has a Stream of Conscience feel as a whole.
Bigger Picture : is the definition of epic. Love this song. :2metal: Probably my favorite of the album.
Behind the Veil: Heaviest riff I've ever heard from JP. God this thing just kicked my ass. Fucking awesome. Intro reminded me a lot of The Great Debate. Sweet keyboard solo (wonder if that's the Seaboard?)
Surrender to Reason: Serious LTL vibe here. Not quite as epic, but great tune all the same. Love JMs lyrics. Love the choral patch JR uses. The bass under the guitar solo = mind blown. :omg: Clearly hearing JP on backing vocals is a nice change. :tup
Along For the Ride: Another tune that fits better in context.
Illumination Theory: Can't wait to hear this. From what's being said here it's gonna be amazing. I don't want to spoil it though. Need some surprises when I crank this in my car for the first time.
Overall: There's no question why they chose to self title this one. It's got everything that made me love DT in the first place. Cyber had mentioned sonically this album was kinda hard on the ears (I think it was Cyber...) but I don't notice that on first listen. Everything seemed to fit well. This was definitely a return to form for DT in my book. Not a bad song on this one (I'm expecting IT to blow me away). Killer guitar riffs, JM's back from vacation... Mangini kills. Melodies are awesome, soaring choruses. Everything just fits well together. Next Tuesday couldn't get here soon enough. :caffeine: :metal
Oh and I'm diggin' the new DTF theme! :tup
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SURRENDER TO REASON IS AMAZING FAKASQ
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Illumination Theory just rekindled my faith in DT. A 10/10 song on par with A Change of Seasons and Octavarium.
As for the album, it's easily better than anything between SC and ADTOE. Since the songs in the middle of DT12 were unimpressionable, it's hard for me to say how the album measures up against everything before SC.
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The DT I fell in love with that made Scenes From A Memory, Six Degree of Inner Turbulence, Train Of Thought and Octavarium ARE BACK :metal :corn :metal :corn
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The Easter Egg is delicious. It actually started to bring tears to my eyes. A wonderful way to end the album. I hope they do more like that in the future. :hefdaddy
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I like the classic proggy organ patch on Surrender to Reason. But am I the only one getting completely sick of the orchestral and choral patches JR uses in everything ever? I like the arrangement in IT just fine, but that's because it sounds like ACTUAL FUCKING ORCHESTRA INSTRUMENTS.
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The middle of IT makes me want to cry myself to sleep.
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A very, very entertaining album for me. Very old school, and very modern, catchy. I'm following them since their begining, and I like very much this effort.
Can't wait to be back home and take my guitar... :metal
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This album is fantastic! Holy shit, the whole ending part of The Bigger Picture - SO MANY GOOSEBUMPS! And Illumination Theory.. jesus christ monkeyballs..
Can we get a boner emote?
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Do I hear some JP backing vocals at the end of IT?!
:corn
And this is actually a very cool mix. Been a while since I could say that!
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I love this album.
On the first listen I wasn't so thrilled about it (except for IT) but now I'm in love with this.
Although I have to agree with some of you that I feel a little disappointed by Enigma Machine, I don't know what I was expecting, but this was not it :blush . It's a nice song and maybe it's only a problem with me, so since that is the only problem I have with the album, I have to say that the DT guys did an awesome job.
And of course, those two moments on IT (the orchestra awesomeness in the middle of the song and the "LaBrie owning everything" part) I am sure will be regarded as two of the best things DT has ever done.
My favourite since Octavarium (and maybe even since 6DOIT) :metal
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Do I hear some JP backing vocals at the end of IT?!
:corn
I think it's JLB. A bit hard to tell at stream quality.
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I feel like the album should have just cut out the middle man and been named "Safe with a Side of Nothing Memorable".
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I knew I was going to hear DT by the numbers in Enigma Machine. I just knew it was going to be a "See what we can do!" type song and I'm totally cool with that.
The bells at the end of IT remind me so much of Finally Free.
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Do I hear some JP backing vocals at the end of IT?!
:corn
I also hear him in the last line of The Bigger Picture.
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Illumination Theory up next ! :O
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I clearly hear an 8 string in IT as well
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Come on Illumination theory ! You've got Octavarium looking at you. Be awesome !
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I knew I was going to hear DT by the numbers in Enigma Machine. I just knew it was going to be a "See what we can do!" type song and I'm totally cool with that.
The bells at the end of IT remind me so much of Finally Free.
You're right. It's more like an actually good version of Raw Dog, than... I don't know, a mediocre Erotomania, which was what I was expecting. But as you said, I agree that a "DT by numbers" was much more likely.
But anyway, the rest of the album does it for me so, no problem there :laugh:
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the whole fucking album. i love every track. even adtoe, which I rank as #4 in their disco, wasn't this good.
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I loved Enigma Machine ! ;D :D
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I hate when musicians say "this is our best work to date" when what they mean is "here is something safe and familiar, please still listen to us".
Illumination Theory barely makes sense as a full 20 minute song.
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Do I hear some JP backing vocals at the end of IT?!
:corn
I think it's JLB. A bit hard to tell at stream quality.
I don't know if it's at the end of IT but JP definitely does some backing vocals on one of the tracks... I was pleasantly surprised as well! :biggrin:
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I'm so relieved that people seem to really dig this. I was worried that maybe I just had brainwashed myself into liking this album, considering how my first reaction was. There was literally a point after the first listen I said "worst DT album ever".
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The Bigger Picture is incredibly heartwarming :heart
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I hate when musicians say "this is our best work to date" when what they mean is "here is something safe and familiar, please still listen to us".
Because that would be just ideal to say when promoting a new album.. ::)
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I hate when musicians say "this is our best work to date" when what they mean is "here is something safe and familiar, please still listen to us".
Illumination Theory barely makes sense as a full 20 minute song.
So I suppose you don't care for it?
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I'm so relieved that people seem to really dig this. I was worried that maybe I just had brainwashed myself into liking this album, considering how my first reaction was. There was literally a point after the first listen I said "worst DT album ever".
This is light years better than Systematic Chaos ! ;)
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I'm so relieved that people seem to really dig this. I was worried that maybe I just had brainwashed myself into liking this album, considering how my first reaction was. There was literally a point after the first listen I said "worst DT album ever".
This was my initial reaction to the album. It lasted the time to hit the replay button. :D
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I'm so relieved that people seem to really dig this. I was worried that maybe I just had brainwashed myself into liking this album, considering how my first reaction was. There was literally a point after the first listen I said "worst DT album ever".
I think your descriptions were quite accurate. It is very cimenatic. It reminds me of early DT which is a very good thing. And yet it
does have a new modern feel to it.
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FAS is pretty sick. it's nothing compared to what Symphony X can do but still cool
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I'm so relieved that people seem to really dig this. I was worried that maybe I just had brainwashed myself into liking this album, considering how my first reaction was. There was literally a point after the first listen I said "worst DT album ever".
Well i had a mixed reaction 1st time through. Damn you loundess. Also, the album is very complex i think so it needs multiple listens to reveal itself.
Also, despite my gripes with the mix (especially the drum sound) i have to appreciate that Myung is quite loud this time, he is present even when JP does some heavy stuff. I don't remember an album from DT where JM is so prominent in the mix and playing.
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I hate when musicians say "this is our best work to date" when what they mean is "here is something safe and familiar, please still listen to us".
Because that would be just ideal to say when promoting a new album.. ::)
Yes but like...where's the honesty?
I hate when musicians say "this is our best work to date" when what they mean is "here is something safe and familiar, please still listen to us".
Illumination Theory barely makes sense as a full 20 minute song.
So I suppose you don't care for it?
Your reading comprehension is impeccable.
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I'm so relieved that people seem to really dig this. I was worried that maybe I just had brainwashed myself into liking this album, considering how my first reaction was. There was literally a point after the first listen I said "worst DT album ever".
This is light years better than Systematic Chaos ! ;)
It's about on par for me, I may even rank SC slightly higher. An underrated album.
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the whole fucking album. i love every track. even adtoe, which I rank as #4 in their disco, wasn't this good.
Yep, agreed with all of this (even the ranking of ADTOE). This album is wayyyyy better than I was expecting (and my expectations were pretty high after the singles).
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Ok listening now. Half through Enemy Inside. False Awakening Suite is embarrassingly bad. I already know how how I feel about Enemy Inside - recycling. Its almost over...
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I've listened to the stream 3 times back to back now and I really need to stop. I don't want to get used to the quality of the webrip. But this album is so enjoyable. Argh
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I'm so relieved that people seem to really dig this. I was worried that maybe I just had brainwashed myself into liking this album, considering how my first reaction was. There was literally a point after the first listen I said "worst DT album ever".
This is light years better than Systematic Chaos ! ;)
It's about on par for me, I may even rank SC slightly higher. An underrated album.
Am I to infer that you rate DT 12 quite low - or quite high ?
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This album is fantastic! Holy shit, the whole ending part of The Bigger Picture - SO MANY GOOSEBUMPS! And Illumination Theory.. jesus christ monkeyballs..
Can we get a boner emote?
This ;D
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Stand-out tracks for me: Illumination Theory, Surrender to Reason and The Bigger Picture. False Awakening Suite is a great opening track, and definitely sets the mood for the entire album. I need to spin this more times so I can have a good opinion on this, but it surpassed all my expectations. This is great stuff, I don't know if it will rank higher than ADTOE but it does beat SC and BC&SL easily.
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I hate when musicians say "this is our best work to date" when what they mean is "here is something safe and familiar, please still listen to us".
Illumination Theory barely makes sense as a full 20 minute song.
Right? I thought it was over twice when there was just a long silence with nothing, nooothing in between! And that final piano thing didn't "felt" like it should be there.
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Sorry to hear that...buh bye!
The Enigma Machine sounds like a more boring version of the instrumental sections of The Shattered Fortress.
Super dissappointed with it.
Mangini was the wrong choice people, could be a drum machine for all I know.
ITT JPX demonstrates a staggering lack of drumming comprehension.
Because, yo, some of the shit he's doing in there is just fucking inhuman and memorable all at the same time. Genie - 1, my brain - 0.
I know exactly what I'm listening to. TEM is flat and the drumming shows me nothing.
This album could be the end of my wonderful relationship with DT. I was expecting it to a degree but it is being realized.
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I'm so relieved that people seem to really dig this. I was worried that maybe I just had brainwashed myself into liking this album, considering how my first reaction was. There was literally a point after the first listen I said "worst DT album ever".
This is light years better than Systematic Chaos ! ;)
It's about on par for me, I may even rank SC slightly higher. An underrated album.
Oh...I thought you were a cool kid. Damn I hate to be wrong. :(
:lol :biggrin: :lol
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Forget Mangini - this album is Dream Theater unleashed. :metal
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There's nothing cringeworthy like Prophets of War on this album. Instant winner!
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I hate when musicians say "this is our best work to date" when what they mean is "here is something safe and familiar, please still listen to us".
Because that would be just ideal to say when promoting a new album.. ::)
Yes but like...where's the honesty?
That may very well be the bands honest opinion..
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First listen reactions:
After being pretty underwhelmed by TEI and AFTR I was prepared for quite some disappointment, sadly it wasn't enough. I thought at first AFTR didn't have any really great melodies and instrumental embellishments, now I know they're pretty much the best ones on the entire album.
It didn't actually feel anything like listening to an album. More like a random copy and paste collection of various interludes and breaks that weren't strong enough for previous albums. I absolutely don't see more focus on individual songs. Yes, they're shorter and more repetitive but they feel way more frankensteined than ever before. I also don't see more focus on melodies, not in the vocals, not in the riffs, not in the solo lines, they're like thin lines in the sand (no, don't) washed away by the next wave leaving nothing behind, mostly bland filler, always waiting for something that will never come.
There are a few silent breaks that shine through a stormfront of loudness. Listening to this in better quality and more often will obviously make some of it a little better. But if you played me any ten minute section (except maybe the part in IT after the strings) and I didn't know this was one of my favorite bands I'd probably stopped listening after that, if not earlier.
These are my song by song notes from the first listen:
FAS: a little War Inside My Head vibe, mostly filler [1/5]
TEI: still not a track I dig but nice verse melody [3/5]
TLG: radio interview said something about a riff, no riff, nice solo, filler melodies [2/5]
EM: Inspector Gadget goes Erotomania riff, good old Rudess Scenes patch, Nightmare To Remember halftime feel, boring [2/5]
TBP: nice vocal entry, bland melodies, "water's edge" lyrics, shifted accents ruin chorus, nice solo and bridge, 8VM "someone Like him" nod, sudden break, U2 moment, filler [2/5]
BTV: great intro, nice guitar tone, Metallica moments, Beyond This Life style vocals, useless chorus, rinse and repeat, filler [2/5]
STR: generic intro, useless break, next melody with rhythmic chugga as usual, useless chorus, slightly twelve step suite riff before noisy crap solo [2/5]
AFTR: compared to the rest this is suddenly a very nice song [4/5]
IT: first third did nothing, noise section useless, orchestra sounds nice but sooo neeedy overdose of old Hollywood schmaltz for the sake of schmaltz, second half has nice sections [2/5]
Several of the [2/5] are borderline [1/5] but I didn't want to be cruel to one of my favorite bands.
I almost regret preordering, can this be cancelled?
:sadpanda:
Greetings...
Nef
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I'm so relieved that people seem to really dig this. I was worried that maybe I just had brainwashed myself into liking this album, considering how my first reaction was. There was literally a point after the first listen I said "worst DT album ever".
This is light years better than Systematic Chaos ! ;)
It's about on par for me, I may even rank SC slightly higher. An underrated album.
Am I to infer that you rate DT 12 quite low - or quite high ?
Lower half of their discography, but that doesn't mean I think it's bad.
SC, BCASL, ADTOE and DT12 are all ranked very closely to me, with SC probably being my favourite of the bunch.
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I am absolutely happy with the album. Really great stuff in it. i like it way better than ADTOE already.
I am gonna go with the cliché and say it´s their best since SDOIT.
I am so glad that the bass is fully audible on the whole record again :D
And, it´s just me or The Looking Glass could´ve come straight from a lost FII recording session? I just love the riff on this songs, kind of reminds me of Raising The Knife. Amazing song.
Amazing record, the guys did it again.
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Illumination Theory barely makes sense as a full 20 minute song.
I sort of agree with this, as it felt more like a compilation of different songs than a full epic song such as Octavarium. However, I still thought IT had several absolutely amazing parts in it. And I'm pretty sure I'll dig it even more after several listens :D
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I would have replaced the jungle noises in IT with the easter egg
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I hate when musicians say "this is our best work to date" when what they mean is "here is something safe and familiar, please still listen to us".
Illumination Theory barely makes sense as a full 20 minute song.
Right? I thought it was over twice when there was just a long silence with nothing, nooothing in between! And that final piano thing didn't "felt" like it should be there.
The ambient/orchestral bit that lasts almost 4 minutes was just so...lazy. Normally I defend DT's longer songs, because they flow or have substance but this was just so..."hey I've got a guitar and 20 minutes of musical ideas so...what the fuck".
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I hear Images, Awake, Scenes and Octavarium in this album.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's their best Roadrunner album for my money.
At the very least - it's the most fun i've had listening to a new Dream Theater album in a LONG time.
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The intro and outro of Surrender To Reason really reminds me of mid/late 80s era Rush.
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I gotta say, DT's sounds and lyrics feel consistently more "mature," for lack of a better word. It's hard to describe. They were mature in the past albums, but there was always a song like "The Glass Prison" or "Honor Thy Father" that were just heavy for heavy's sake and the lyrics were like someone venting. And in more recent albums there "The Dark Eternal Night" and "The Count of Tuscany," which had oddball lyrics. This album feels different. It's a grown-up DT all the way through, in my opinion.
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After first listen: This album didn't do much for me. Don't like the production that much either, I feel like there's been a significant shift in DT production. There's nothing here that right off the bat would even crack my DT top 40. This isn't like the DT I love, but whatever.
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First listen reactions:
After being pretty underwhelmed by TEI and AFTR I was prepared for quite some disappointment, sadly it wasn't enough. I thought at first AFTR didn't have any really great melodies and instrumental embellishments, now I know they're pretty much the best ones on the entire album.
It didn't actually feel anything like listening to an album. More like a random copy and paste collection of various interludes and breaks that weren't strong enough for previous albums. I absolutely don't see more focus on individual songs. Yes, they're shorter and more repetitive but they feel way more frankensteined than ever before. I also don't see more focus on melodies, not in the vocals, not in the riffs, not in the solo lines, they're like thin lines in the sand (no, don't) washed away by the next wave leaving nothing behind, mostly bland filler, always waiting for something that will never come.
There are a few silent breaks that shine through a stormfront of loudness. Listening to this in better quality and more often will obviously make some of it a little better. But if you played me any ten minute section (except maybe the part in IT after the strings) and I didn't know this was one of my favorite bands I'd probably stopped listening after that, if not earlier.
These are my song by song notes from the first listen:
FAS: a little War Inside My Head vibe, mostly filler [1/5]
TEI: still not a track I dig but nice verse melody [3/5]
TLG: radio interview said something about a riff, no riff, nice solo, filler melodies [2/5]
EM: Inspector Gadget goes Erotomania riff, good old Rudess Scenes patch, Nightmare To Remember halftime feel, boring [2/5]
TBP: nice vocal entry, bland melodies, "water's edge" lyrics, shifted accents ruin chorus, nice solo and bridge, 8VM "someone Like him" nod, sudden break, U2 moment, filler [2/5]
BTV: great intro, nice guitar tone, Metallica moments, Beyond This Life style vocals, useless chorus, rinse and repeat, filler [2/5]
STR: generic intro, useless break, next melody with rhythmic chugga as usual, useless chorus, slightly twelve step suite riff before noisy crap solo [2/5]
AFTR: compared to the rest this is suddenly a very nice song [4/5]
IT: first third did nothing, noise section useless, orchestra sounds nice but sooo neeedy overdose of old Hollywood schmaltz for the sake of schmaltz, second half has nice sections [2/5]
Several of the [2/5] are borderline [1/5] but I didn't want to be cruel to one of my favorite bands.
I almost regret preordering, can this be cancelled?
:sadpanda:
Greetings...
Nef
Nice to know that I'm not alone. Luckily I didn't pre-order ;)
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First reaction to the album: Worst DT record.
GO AWAY! >:(
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I hate when musicians say "this is our best work to date" when what they mean is "here is something safe and familiar, please still listen to us".
Illumination Theory barely makes sense as a full 20 minute song.
Right? I thought it was over twice when there was just a long silence with nothing, nooothing in between! And that final piano thing didn't "felt" like it should be there.
The ambient/orchestral bit that lasts almost 4 minutes was just so...lazy. Normally I defend DT's longer songs, because they flow or have substance but this was just so..."hey I've got a guitar and 20 minutes of musical ideas so...what the fuck".
Agreed, it feels very disjointed!
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There's nothing cringeworthy like Prophets of War on this album. Instant winner!
did you listen to the first tracK?
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There's nothing cringeworthy like Prophets of War on this album. Instant winner!
did you listen to the first tracK?
Yes and it was amazing. :metal
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I don't think FAS should have been a suite (it feels like a solid song to me), but I think Illumination Theory could have worked better as a suite, with such clear divides in sections.
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After my first listen...I really enjoyed it for the most part. The religious overtones were a bit much for me though. The end of Illumination Theory sounded like James LaBrie had a Mormon church flyer in his hand, singing to me as I'm walking to my car in a Wal-Mart parking lot.
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Just finished and I loved the hell out of it.
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Just finished and I loved the hell out of it.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who can't find fault with the album.
To those who find D12 to be horrible: I'm glad I'm not you
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Used to have high hope on DT12, but now it is gone.
After several listen to full album, i can say i don't like the album very much. Lots of random riff/section in one song. No hook in a song or just a few that can let me remember the song.
And yeah, i like SC more than DT12. (At least at this moment)
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Just finished and I loved the hell out of it.
To those who find D12 to be horrible: I'm glad I'm not you
Wanna fuck?
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I LOVE THIS ALBUM!
Let me admit, after hearing "The Looking Glass" earlier this morning, I was extremely disappointed and almost went back to sleep. I respect the songwriting, but I've personally never been able to get into the Rush sound. Just kinda too happy for me or something. So glad that turned out to be the only thoroughly-Rush inspired song on this album.
Then I listened to FAS, and it was pretty cool, but I think I had higher expectations of it. I guess Overture: 1928 just raised the bar so high for these kinds of intro type songs.
So, pretty disappointed at that point, I very fearfully put on Enigma Machine. Again, my expectations were set pretty high for this as well, and I was once again pretty let down. It's not bad, but not something I feel like I'll want to revisit very much.
SO. At this point, I lay tired in my bed, knowing that the 4 songs I hadn't yet heard had better be utterly incredible. I think if Illumination Theory wasn't a 20 minute epic, I would have felt totally uninspired at this point. But I knew that there was enough juice in this album to still win me over. Call it a glimmer of hope.
The Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil, Surrender To Reason, and Illumination Theory ended up being my 4 favorite songs on the album, and in a big way.
At that point of little hope, the album did in fact redeem itself, and when the smoke clears, I can see it working its way into my top 4 DT albums. Who knows, maybe even higher.
The best part is, as soon as I heard the latter half of the album, I had this feeling that I would start to like AFTR, EM, and FAS more.
Unfortunately for The Looking Glass, I don't know if I'll ever have the capacity to enjoy it. That's absolutely fine though.
I may be the only one here, but Behind The Veil is probably my current favorite. Not only because I love the harder stuff, but also because the lyrics are especially interesting to me. I followed the Ariel Castro kidnapping case, so some of the lyrics really impacted me.
Currently listening to "The Bigger Picture" again :smiley:
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First listen reactions: More like a random copy and paste collection of various interludes.
Nef
This can be a copy paste comment for every single DT album review since the first one. I always laugh because when every new DT album gets released, there will always be a faction that says this exact same thing on every single album release. Ever since Ive been reading reviews of DT on the internet around SDOIT this is one of the most commonly said comment about each and every single DT release. Some enjoy it some dont. I've been there at times where I dont enjoy it but rest assured its the same feeling.
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Just finished and I loved the hell out of it.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who can't find fault with the album.
To those who find D12 to be horrible: I'm glad I'm not you
:hifive: :hug:
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i was just listening to the odyssey by symphony x before the stream, very hard to take FAS seriously after that. child's play compared.
TLG is fun. about to start enigma :metal :metal
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The little easter egg at the end of Illumination Theory is incredible.
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The so called Ambient section of IT makes me think they were listening to Tales From Topographic Oceans - nothing wrong with that.
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Just finished and I loved the hell out of it.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who can't find fault with the album.
To those who find D12 to be horrible: I'm glad I'm not you
:hifive: :hug:
loved it! IT -- the string section! :heart great way to start my work day!
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Let me admit, after hearing "The Looking Glass" earlier this morning, I was extremely disappointed and almost went back to sleep. I respect the songwriting, but I've personally never been able to get into the Rush sound. Just kinda too happy for me or something. So glad that turned out to be the only thoroughly-Rush inspired song on this album.
Nah, a few of the tracks seem to be channeling Rush. A lot of Surrender to Reason does (particularly the introduction, first verse, and instrumental section), and a bit of Along for the Ride too.
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After the first listen my reaction was: meh
After the second listen my reaction was: fuck yes!!!
This album really needs to grow!!
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*snip*
Completely respect your opinion - you don't like the album and that's fine. I was just wondering if you could be more specific as regards what you mean when you say 'filler' (a word you use a lot). I don't see it as a word of much substance.
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I've just finished listening to the album all the way through.
I've used the word "balanced" before to describe ADTOE....but that was more because of the "loud bits" and "soft bits". It was either one or the other.
But this album truly achieves BALANCE. There's loud bits, soft bits AND the incredible mid-range stuff that I have loved from them from day one. Even though I have loved nearly everything DT has done (even the detour into "metal classic" with ToT) I have missed that balance that made IAW (and actually Octavarium) so special.
THIS ALBUM REALLY HAS BALANCE!
I really liked ADTOE on the first listen, and I still think there is not a single "skip" track on that entire album. It's very solid, and I put it in an upper mid tier or lower top tier album, because there's no low points on the album...it's just really steady. But it also really lacks in those *MIND BLOWN* moments. (to me, anyway) There are very few moments where I go "OH...NO...THEY...DIAN'T!!"
Well, I can safely say that DT12 achieved that. I can't tell you how many times my wife started laughing because I'm sitting next to her with headphones on laughing like a schoolboy and yelling "OH...NO...THEY...DIAN'T!!!" :metal
The Looking Glass and Behind the Veil were BIGTIME standouts to me. Illumination Theory is going to take awhile to digest...but it is the most enjoyable epic I've heard in a long time. Octavarium was PERFECT, ITPOE was a huge let down (worst DT epic IMO), and CoT was much better. But I seriously thought I was done with DT trying to do epics. I figured they had just delivered the goods on Octavarium, and that was it. But with IT, they may have proved me wrong.
Overall...AMAZING album. Need a few more spins to set in.
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loved it! IT -- the string section! :heart great way to start my work day!
Welcome back ! :) :hug:
I can totally see this album having longevity.
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On first listen/skip through (sans IT, that has to wait until after work), it's OK. Nothing really has "hit" me about it except the intro to BTV and Enigma Machine. Definitely not better than SC in my opinion.
Since MP left, they have slowly gone away from raw metal like Glass Prison and This Dying Soul and TDEN. They still do parts of that, but I miss full songs in that style. One reason why the last two albums aren't as high with me.
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There's nothing cringeworthy like Prophets of War on this album. Instant winner!
did you listen to the first tracK?
he don't know me very well, do he?
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After the first listen my reaction was: meh
After the second listen my reaction was: fuck yes!!!
This album really needs to grow!!
This entirely! Look at what happened to noxon!
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^ I can do without full metal songs like that all the way through. That's partly why they did Train of Thought. To do songs that were all metal all the time.
I prefer DT balanced.
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Judging a DT album after one listen on a stream?
Like deciding a supermodel is ugly after seeing her shoes.
Just sayin'.
Heard half of it so far and it sounds like DT to me. That's good enough for now. A headphone listen is planned for later. Saving IT for that.
The fanboy in me is happy ;D
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LaBrie's vocals on this album are so exceedingly average it's kind of depressing.
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*snip*
Completely respect your opinion - you don't like the album and that's fine. I was just wondering if you could be more specific as regards what you mean when you say 'filler' (a word you use a lot). I don't see it as a word of much substance.
No, see you gotta say it like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
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Its sound cloud, wait till you hear it without it being compressed. :rollin
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Just finished and I loved the hell out of it.
To those who find D12 to be horrible: I'm glad I'm not you
Wanna fuck?
Lat, if you're only here to troll and/or bash the album (which, judging from your most recent posts in this thread, seems to be the case), I suggest you take a break before you're given one involuntarily.
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LaBrie's vocals on this album are so exceedingly average it's kind of depressing.
They'd be better if they were clearer. Otherwise, he sounds pretty damn good.
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After only one listen I liked the album. Comparing it to ADTOE, it has less highs but overall seems a lot more consistent.
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After one listen, I like it, but a lot of the vocal melodies did not connect with me, which gives me hope that they are growers, and those are often the best albums, the ones that don't fully hit you right away. For example, Illumination Theory sounded totally awesome musically, but I was thinking WTF at the vocal melodies in the first half of the song, but I am sure after a few listens, they will connect with me and all will be well. Many more listens to come...
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Let me admit, after hearing "The Looking Glass" earlier this morning, I was extremely disappointed and almost went back to sleep. I respect the songwriting, but I've personally never been able to get into the Rush sound. Just kinda too happy for me or something. So glad that turned out to be the only thoroughly-Rush inspired song on this album.
Nah, a few of the tracks seem to be channeling Rush. A lot of Surrender to Reason does (particularly the introduction, first verse, and instrumental section), and a bit of Along for the Ride too.
Oh gotcha. I guess I need to listen to more of their music.
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Ι love the intro of Behind The Veil. This is JR at his best.
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So circlejerking over the new DT is okay but criticism regarding my disappointment with the album isn't? Meh.
Sorry, I'll make up for my behavior. I was planning on stopping at 7/11 anyway. What type of donuts would you guys like most for this game of "DT Soggy Biscuit"?
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The riffs on this album are STONKING.
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So circlejerking over the new DT is okay but criticism regarding my disappointment with the album isn't? Meh.
Sorry, I'll make up for my behavior. I was planning on stopping at 7/11 anyway. What type of donuts would you guys like most for this game of "DT Soggy Biscuit"?
:bosk1:
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So circlejerking over the new DT is okay but criticism regarding my disappointment with the album isn't? Meh.
Sorry, I'll make up for my behavior. I was planning on stopping at 7/11 anyway. What type of donuts would you guys like most for this game of "DT Soggy Biscuit"?
Dude, a lot of people have been criticizing the album in this thread. You are the only one who's been warned.
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I have to say, the reaction to this album is MUCH more overall positive than any of DT's post 2000 albums have been... I think DT hit a nerve here. Looking forward to that tour even more now.
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Let me admit, after hearing "The Looking Glass" earlier this morning, I was extremely disappointed and almost went back to sleep. I respect the songwriting, but I've personally never been able to get into the Rush sound. Just kinda too happy for me or something. So glad that turned out to be the only thoroughly-Rush inspired song on this album.
Nah, a few of the tracks seem to be channeling Rush. A lot of Surrender to Reason does (particularly the introduction, first verse, and instrumental section), and a bit of Along for the Ride too.
Oh gotcha. I guess I need to listen to more of their music.
Yeah dude, Rush is brilliant. :metal
I still haven't heard the whole album yet, since I only had enough time before class to hear a couple songs. Will say that I LOVED what I heard so far. Very excited to hear the whole thing later. :tup
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I have to say, the reaction to this album is MUCH more overall positive than any of DT's post 2000 albums have been... I think DT hit a nerve here. Looking forward to that tour even more now.
Even 6DOIT? That would be kinda lame.
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My first reaction is that DT is their best Roadrunner album.
I don't think it's better than Scenes or Octavarium yet.
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After listening once, I don't really have any strong feelings on the record one way or the other. It's not bad, but nothing really struck me as being spectacular either. The record feels very "safe", even moreso than "A Dramatic Turn of Events". As usual, lyrical topics don't gel with me particularly well; lyrics and vocals are "just there" sounding. Finally, the moments which do stick out, do so for all the wrong reasons: because of how shamelessly "Rush" sounding they are. It's too bad, for as talented as the band they are, DT constantly mine so much material from the same source.
At this point, I'd probably place it above SC and BC&SL, but not much else. Perhaps it will grow on me. Either that, or I'm just now simply getting less interested in the DT sound.
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noxon, I know the soundcloud stream is going to be vastly inferior to the actual CD but by how much do you think its off? In terms of presenting overall dynamics of the mix.
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I have to say, the reaction to this album is MUCH more overall positive than any of DT's post 2000 albums have been... I think DT hit a nerve here. Looking forward to that tour even more now.
Even 6DOIT? That would be kinda lame.
SDOIT wasn't received that well, I'm told. It gained it's current near-holy status through the years.
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In my second listen: Enigma Machine is definitely a good track. It's weird to see such a straightforward instrumental by Dream Theater, but I think it works as a heavy tune that will be a live staple.
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I have to say, the reaction to this album is MUCH more overall positive than any of DT's post 2000 albums have been... I think DT hit a nerve here. Looking forward to that tour even more now.
Even 6DOIT? That would be kinda lame.
Why? Because how dare fans react positively to a new album by a band they love?
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The Looking Glass is easily the best song on here for me. It sounds like a combination of Enchant (and Rush, obviously) and the better aspects of this millennium of DT. It even has Doug Ott-style heavy tremolo usage in the solo.
Illumination Theory tries so hard it hurts. Really, just give up on the epic thing. It's sounded forced every time going back to Octavarium and this is certainly no different. Best part of that track is the old-school "hidden" bonus song at the end.
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When I blast it in my car next week, I'll have a better formed opinion of it. That's as "surround sound" as I get! It's hard to feel music through headphones on a computer.
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I have to say, the reaction to this album is MUCH more overall positive than any of DT's post 2000 albums have been... I think DT hit a nerve here. Looking forward to that tour even more now.
Even 6DOIT? That would be kinda lame.
Why? Because how dare fans react positively to a new album by a band they love?
Because 6DOIT is beautiful and a top3 DT-album.
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I hate when musicians say "this is our best work to date" when what they mean is "here is something safe and familiar, please still listen to us".
Illumination Theory barely makes sense as a full 20 minute song.
Right? I thought it was over twice when there was just a long silence with nothing, nooothing in between! And that final piano thing didn't "felt" like it should be there.
The ambient/orchestral bit that lasts almost 4 minutes was just so...lazy. Normally I defend DT's longer songs, because they flow or have substance but this was just so..."hey I've got a guitar and 20 minutes of musical ideas so...what the fuck".
Agreed, it feels very disjointed!
The whole song might be the most disjointed thing they've ever written.
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I really hope this album can stand the test of time. If I had to rank it now it would be in my top 5, I'm really hoping it'll be able to stay there. Love everything about it so far (except I still think JLB is too low but it's not that bad)
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So circlejerking over the new DT is okay but criticism regarding my disappointment with the album isn't? Meh.
Sorry, I'll make up for my behavior. I was planning on stopping at 7/11 anyway. What type of donuts would you guys like most for this game of "DT Soggy Biscuit"?
Critique is fine, but this kind of comment serves only to piss people off. Knock it off. Now.
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I'm only listening to some "extended snippets", but musically it sounds good. Except for in TEI Myung seems to be very audible this time. I won't judge too much based on a stream, but soundwise the album sounds a little harsh, especially the guitars (probably a combination of mix, master and his new pickups which I don't like too much). Some uncomfortable treble even on the headphones I've got with least high end. The actual CD may be slightly better, but I have the same issues with a 320k version of TEI. I'll listen more closely when I get the CD in 3-4 days.
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I listened to this album twice through and I don't get it. There are no memorable vocal melodies, the riffs are all over the place and nothing stands out except for a few moments here and there. I really liked ADTOE and thought it was there best work since SDOIT but the music on this album is just putting me to sleep. The enemy within is the only song that I really like. I'll buy the album when it comes out just so that I have it in my DT collection, but I have no desire to see them play these songs live this time around.
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When I blast it in my car next week, I'll have a better formed opinion of it. That's as "surround sound" as I get! It's hard to feel music through headphones on a computer.
My fave way to experience new music is in headphones on a walk. That way you can pay more attention to the music. At home on your PC - you can kinda surf the net and not really focus on it.
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Just finished the Looking Glass and the Enigma Machine.
TLG reminded me a little of "Don't Look Past Me" except I like "Don't Look Past Me" a lot more
I know the rest of the album will be better but disappointed with the Looking Glass and the Enigma Machine. Looking Glass felt a little off and it ended abruptly.
I wish DT would not do instrumental tracks anymore unless they are amazing because it feels like a waste of a track when their songs have so much going on in them anyway. Enigma Machine was pretty boring.
Edit - Just finished the Bigger Picture. A very good step in the right direction. Good song with a guitar that I can feel emotion coming from.
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I hate when musicians say "this is our best work to date" when what they mean is "here is something safe and familiar, please still listen to us".
Illumination Theory barely makes sense as a full 20 minute song.
Right? I thought it was over twice when there was just a long silence with nothing, nooothing in between! And that final piano thing didn't "felt" like it should be there.
The ambient/orchestral bit that lasts almost 4 minutes was just so...lazy. Normally I defend DT's longer songs, because they flow or have substance but this was just so..."hey I've got a guitar and 20 minutes of musical ideas so...what the fuck".
Agreed, it feels very disjointed!
The whole song might be the most disjointed thing they've ever written.
It's horrible. Artificially extended again and again with tacked on generic orchestration all in the name of "epic."
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I have to say, the reaction to this album is MUCH more overall positive than any of DT's post 2000 albums have been... I think DT hit a nerve here. Looking forward to that tour even more now.
Even 6DOIT? That would be kinda lame.
SDOIT wasn't received that well, I'm told. It gained it's current near-holy status through the years.
I was there. There were "disc 1" and "disc 2" factions. It wasn't pretty. I'm actually shocked to see so many people rate it so high, because I've always seen people like either one disc or the other, and almost never proclaim a love for the *whole thing*. (I'm a disc 2 man myself, but not as low on disc 1 as most "disc 2 people" are)
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Just finished the Looking Glass and the Enigma Machine.
It reminded me a little of "Don't Look Pat Me" except I like "Don't Look Past Me" a lot more
I know the rest of the album will be better but disappointed with the Looking Glass and the Enigma Machine. Looking Glass felt a little off and it ended abruptly.
I wish DT would not do instrumental tracks anymore unless they are amazing because it feels like a waste of a track when their songs have so much going on in them anyway. Enigma Machine was pretty boring.
Those are two of the stronger tracks, but I applaud the optimism in going forward.
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I have to say, the reaction to this album is MUCH more overall positive than any of DT's post 2000 albums have been... I think DT hit a nerve here. Looking forward to that tour even more now.
Even 6DOIT? That would be kinda lame.
SDOIT wasn't received that well, I'm told. It gained it's current near-holy status through the years.
I was there. There were "disc 1" and "disc 2" factions. It wasn't pretty. I'm actually shocked to see so many people rate it so high, because I've always seen people like either one disc or the other, and almost never proclaim a love for the *whole thing*. (I'm a disc 2 man myself, but not as low on disc 1 as most "disc 2 people" are)
That's mad because "Disc 2" is just Track 6 of Disc 1. :lol I don't think of them as seperate.
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I have to say, the reaction to this album is MUCH more overall positive than any of DT's post 2000 albums have been... I think DT hit a nerve here. Looking forward to that tour even more now.
Even 6DOIT? That would be kinda lame.
SDOIT wasn't received that well, I'm told. It gained it's current near-holy status through the years.
I was there. There were "disc 1" and "disc 2" factions. It wasn't pretty. I'm actually shocked to see so many people rate it so high, because I've always seen people like either one disc or the other, and almost never proclaim a love for the *whole thing*. (I'm a disc 2 man myself, but not as low on disc 1 as most "disc 2 people" are)
They totally lost me with 6DoiT for a couple years. There was a lot of negativity given the first single was as straight-ahead metal as they'd done with very "loud" production values. Some of that was just disappointment following an album like SFAM, but to this day I only care for two songs on it.
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I have to say, the reaction to this album is MUCH more overall positive than any of DT's post 2000 albums have been... I think DT hit a nerve here. Looking forward to that tour even more now.
Even 6DOIT? That would be kinda lame.
SDOIT wasn't received that well, I'm told. It gained it's current near-holy status through the years.
This is definitely true. I actually couldn't believe how so many people ranked it in their top 1-3 DT albums in the album ranking thread, because the last time I was active in any kind of DT forum (yearrrrrs ago a bit after it was released), I remember it being highly criticized.
In any event, it's always been a great album IMO. :metal
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I agree that this is the best among the RR albums (on first impression, of course), and in that group of contenders only.
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Even 6DOIT? That would be kinda lame.
People tend to forget this, but at the time SDOIT was -very- badly recieved by a very large portion of the fanbase. That and Train of Thought were the two albums where I distinctly remember a -really really- bad reaction from the fanbase, whereas for the later albums I guess a lot of the negativity was just more expected so people weren't as vocal about it (although that's not to say there's not a lot of hate for those albums out there). And for those that didn't hate the entire album, there were plenty that just had to take sides (liking one of the discs but not the other). For me? It's personally not a very high ranking DT album for me. Aside from The Glass Prison, I just don't listen to any of it anymore.
noxon, I know the soundcloud stream is going to be vastly inferior to the actual CD but by how much do you think its off? In terms of presenting overall dynamics of the mix.
Soundcloud is a bit more muffled than the proper release, but the actual CD is quite muffled. I prefer the 5.1 mix, because it's MUCH more airier. You can hear a lot more of what happens in the keys and the vocals on the 5.1 mix. Like in False Awakening Suite, you'll -very- clearly hear the choir patch, while on the cd it's kinda "background-ish".
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Just got done listening and I didn't hear any of the criticism that some people in this thread seem to have. Right now this is a top 5 DT album for me and it beats Haken's new album for Album of The Year.
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I have to say, the reaction to this album is MUCH more overall positive than any of DT's post 2000 albums have been... I think DT hit a nerve here. Looking forward to that tour even more now.
Even 6DOIT? That would be kinda lame.
SDOIT wasn't received that well, I'm told. It gained it's current near-holy status through the years.
I was there. There were "disc 1" and "disc 2" factions. It wasn't pretty. I'm actually shocked to see so many people rate it so high, because I've always seen people like either one disc or the other, and almost never proclaim a love for the *whole thing*. (I'm a disc 2 man myself, but not as low on disc 1 as most "disc 2 people" are)
That's mad because "Disc 2" is just Track 6 of Disc 1. :lol I don't think of them as seperate.
In the 8VM days....people would commonly list the discs separately on their album rankings.
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I listened to this album twice through and I don't get it. There are no memorable vocal melodies, the riffs are all over the place and nothing stands out except for a few moments here and there.
Yeah, I think the lyrics / vocal melodies are the biggest weaknesses here. Just not much sticks out or is memorable. Hopefully as KevShmev suggested the album could just be a grower.
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It's horrible. Artificially extended again and again with tacked on generic orchestration all in the name of "epic."
I agree IT feels a bit disjointed, but all the parts are absolutely mind blowing IMO so I couldn't really care less about the flow of the song.
Insane vocal melodies and riffs in the first part, incredibly beautifully orchestrated string section in the middle, and crazy DT all the way the rest of the song, and then that beautiful piano and swell guitar section at the very end. Absoulutely amazing. This is what prog is all about. Just my opinion anyway :)
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dat mangini on dis album doh
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In the 8VM days....people would commonly list the discs separately on their album rankings.
:lolpalm:
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dat mangini on dis album doh
:omg: OMG IKR TOTES
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In the 8VM days....people would commonly list the discs separately on their album rankings.
:lolpalm:
You KNOW I'm right.... :angel:
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Soundcloud is a bit more muffled than the proper release, but the actual CD is quite muffled. I prefer the 5.1 mix, because it's MUCH more airier. You can hear a lot more of what happens in the keys and the vocals on the 5.1 mix. Like in False Awakening Suite, you'll -very- clearly hear the choir patch, while on the cd it's kinda "background-ish".
Thats excellent to hear, I'm looking forward to the 5.1 version of the album very much now. Thanks!
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In the 8VM days....people would commonly list the discs separately on their album rankings.
:lolpalm:
You KNOW I'm right.... :angel:
I've only been a fan since around SC. I worked my way backwards pretty quickly though. I literally could not get enough DT.
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Soundcloud is a bit more muffled than the proper release, but the actual CD is quite muffled. I prefer the 5.1 mix, because it's MUCH more airier. You can hear a lot more of what happens in the keys and the vocals on the 5.1 mix. Like in False Awakening Suite, you'll -very- clearly hear the choir patch, while on the cd it's kinda "background-ish".
Thats excellent to hear, I'm looking forward to the 5.1 version of the album very much now. Thanks!
i actually like the production and i'm guessing the CD will just enhance that.
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I REALLY like 99% of what I´ve heard so far. I´m at work and have headphones on, and I´m clicking randomly at each song to see what grabs my attention first. But people keep interrupting me to talk about work!!! :facepalm:
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How dare they ! :lolpalm:
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Here is my first thought about the album.
When I heard BC&SL and ADTOE for the first time I just gave my point to them and it barely changed to up or down by the time. It's like the first impression is enough to judge these albums and it goes like that.
But I gladly say that this album needs more listenings to understand it completely. For me that's a good sign because it feels like I can dig the album each listening and find different things to enjoy. And again, I really hear I&W, Awake, FII, SFAM and SDoIT in this album. I really mean they are there. I can hear Surrounded, Scarred, SdOIT, Finally Free, Overture and good thing is the new sound is not reflection or copy of these classics. There are noticable elements with original sound.
Finally DT unites its roots and modern sound and it comes out perfectly well.
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Soundcloud is a bit more muffled than the proper release, but the actual CD is quite muffled. I prefer the 5.1 mix, because it's MUCH more airier. You can hear a lot more of what happens in the keys and the vocals on the 5.1 mix. Like in False Awakening Suite, you'll -very- clearly hear the choir patch, while on the cd it's kinda "background-ish".
Can we admit to hearing the leaked CDDA since the band has "leaked" the album officially in the form of the stream?
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How dare they ! :lolpalm:
Man...all those Purchase Orders to fix, all those line items in SAP to adjust...contract clauses to discuss...this should NEVER get in the way of listening to DT! :tdwn
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Can we admit to hearing the leaked CDDA since the band has "leaked" the album officially in the form of the stream?
No, that would be against the rules of the forum.
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Upon first listen, my impression is that this may not only be in the holy of holies (I&W,Awake,SFAM and SDOIT), but may end up being number 1 after it gels for this reason: It has no low points for me. Most DT albums for me 1-3 songs that are classics, 2-4 that are good/OK, and 2-3 that I wish never existed. This album they are all good or better. Time will sort out the classics from the good.
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I have to say, the reaction to this album is MUCH more overall positive than any of DT's post 2000 albums have been... I think DT hit a nerve here. Looking forward to that tour even more now.
Damn right it did!!! :metal
For me this one is a blend of FII, Awake, and Six Degrees but the album is on a whole different category by itself. I'm loving every minute of it. Very song oriented but very DT-ish at the same time. Drum sound aside, this album screams Album of the year for me. JLB's vocals are outstanding (though a bit low on the mix but I can live with that). JP's guitar playing is monstrous throughout the record and love how JR is restrained creating a more mellow sound and mood throughout the album. Very Kevin Moore-ish I would say. The nugget is just beautiful as well. Love JM"s bass as well since it sounds very Geddy Lee-ish.
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...and it beats Haken's new album for Album of The Year.
I have to disagree there. DT failed to overcome The Mountain IMO ;)
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i am now to Surrender To Reason and i already like the album a lot!
Definitely the best of the RR era!
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I think I'll be able to best judge it when I can listen to the CD with nice headphones.
There were a couple of good moments here and there, a few parts where it got a bit of a chore, but there wasn't much that was quite so memorable right off the bat. I bet it'll grow once I can give it a really, really good listen.
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I'm coming up on finishing my 3rd listen all the way thru. I am just blown away. So much emotion in this album... The Restless Angels section of Surrender to Reason is amazing; listen to all the cool stuff going on under James (and James kills it there as well).
I feel bad for the people that are not liking it. This is the DT I've been missing for a long time.
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:lol :rollin
Ok listening now. Half through Enemy Inside. False Awakening Suite is embarrassingly bad. I already know how how I feel about Enemy Inside - recycling. Its almost over...
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Listened to the album 4 times now....WOW, really really digging it! This is inspired DT. For me this knocks ADTOE out the ballpark! And I like ADTOE! This album is definitly in my top rankning of DT albums. On par with I@W, Awake, Octavarium, Scenes, and SDOIT (and might i add FII) for me so far.
And as I am a guitarplayer....JP, WOW, what a palyer!!!!! :hefdaddy
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Illumination Theory is miles better than Octavarium or In The Presence of Enemies. It's better than The Count of Tuscany. In fact, it's got me back on the "DT Epic pls" train. Fucking A'. I feel like I'm listening to the band I knew they were but, for some reason, they weren't being that band from 2003-2009.
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Finally getting a good listen, absolutely love this album, much more than A Dramatic Turn Of Events (Which is a top 5 for me), and I'll need to give it more listens, to let the songs soak into my brain permanently, but I can already tell this is a classic for me.
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Surrender to Reason is really, really amazing. Might be my favorite song on the record (probably more than Illumination Theory).
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Two songs in, this is pretty neat. I can see the Pokemon Red and Blue that Wasteland mentioned in another thread.
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Two songs in, this is pretty neat. I can see the Pokemon Red and Blue that Wasteland mentioned in another thread.
I need to high five you but I can't find the emote! :D
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Illumination Theory is miles better than Octavarium
This makes no sense to me at all. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not saying you're opinion is shitty. But strictly speaking in terms of flow and substance, I don't quite understand how this conclusion happens.
Though I'm biased and think that 8VM is DT's best album and the title track is one of my favourite progmetal epics ever.
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The easter egg is so gorgeous.
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On my first listen I was like: "I'm not feeling this shit".
Until I got to the outro of Behind The Veil :metal :metal :metal
Favorite moment of the album so far.
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Two songs in, this is pretty neat. I can see the Pokemon Red and Blue that Wasteland mentioned in another thread.
I need to high five you but I can't find the emote! :D
:hifive:
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James is at his best after Awake!
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"Behind the Veil" is fucking sick. The orchestration at the beginning are breathtaking. When the music kicks in it's reminiscent of WDADU.
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It's actually a pretty good album. I don't see myself listening to it all that much because I don't listen to Dream Theater that much anymore, but it's still pretty decent.
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:lol :rollin
First listen reactions:
After being pretty underwhelmed by TEI and AFTR I was prepared for quite some disappointment, sadly it wasn't enough. I thought at first AFTR didn't have any really great melodies and instrumental embellishments, now I know they're pretty much the best ones on the entire album.
It didn't actually feel anything like listening to an album. More like a random copy and paste collection of various interludes and breaks that weren't strong enough for previous albums. I absolutely don't see more focus on individual songs. Yes, they're shorter and more repetitive but they feel way more frankensteined than ever before. I also don't see more focus on melodies, not in the vocals, not in the riffs, not in the solo lines, they're like thin lines in the sand (no, don't) washed away by the next wave leaving nothing behind, mostly bland filler, always waiting for something that will never come.
There are a few silent breaks that shine through a stormfront of loudness. Listening to this in better quality and more often will obviously make some of it a little better. But if you played me any ten minute section (except maybe the part in IT after the strings) and I didn't know this was one of my favorite bands I'd probably stopped listening after that, if not earlier.
These are my song by song notes from the first listen:
FAS: a little War Inside My Head vibe, mostly filler [1/5]
TEI: still not a track I dig but nice verse melody [3/5]
TLG: radio interview said something about a riff, no riff, nice solo, filler melodies [2/5]
EM: Inspector Gadget goes Erotomania riff, good old Rudess Scenes patch, Nightmare To Remember halftime feel, boring [2/5]
TBP: nice vocal entry, bland melodies, "water's edge" lyrics, shifted accents ruin chorus, nice solo and bridge, 8VM "someone Like him" nod, sudden break, U2 moment, filler [2/5]
BTV: great intro, nice guitar tone, Metallica moments, Beyond This Life style vocals, useless chorus, rinse and repeat, filler [2/5]
STR: generic intro, useless break, next melody with rhythmic chugga as usual, useless chorus, slightly twelve step suite riff before noisy crap solo [2/5]
AFTR: compared to the rest this is suddenly a very nice song [4/5]
IT: first third did nothing, noise section useless, orchestra sounds nice but sooo neeedy overdose of old Hollywood schmaltz for the sake of schmaltz, second half has nice sections [2/5]
Several of the [2/5] are borderline [1/5] but I didn't want to be cruel to one of my favorite bands.
I almost regret preordering, can this be cancelled?
:sadpanda:
Greetings...
Nef
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Illumination Theory is miles better than Octavarium
This makes no sense to me at all. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not saying you're opinion is shitty. But strictly speaking in terms of flow and substance, I don't quite understand how this conclusion happens.
Though I'm biased and think that 8VM is DT's best album and the title track is one of my favourite progmetal epics ever.
And I think it's one of the most overrated borefests in DT's catalog. ;)
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On my first listen I was like: "I'm not feeling this shit".
Until I got to the outro of Behind The Veil :metal :metal :metal
Favorite moment of the album so far.
I know what you mean lol - too much going on. I stopped at the Bigger Picture and have gone back to the start. Im now stuck at The Looking Glass which flew over my head the first time. OMG this song is amazing. I love it! I love it!!
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Illumination Theory is miles better than Octavarium
This makes no sense to me at all. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not saying you're opinion is shitty. But strictly speaking in terms of flow and substance, I don't quite understand how this conclusion happens.
Though I'm biased and think that 8VM is DT's best album and the title track is one of my favourite progmetal epics ever.
And I think it's one of the most overrated borefests in DT's catalog. ;)
omg stahp bashing dt pls
:splodetard:
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Illumination Theory is miles better than Octavarium
This makes no sense to me at all. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not saying you're opinion is shitty. But strictly speaking in terms of flow and substance, I don't quite understand how this conclusion happens.
Though I'm biased and think that 8VM is DT's best album and the title track is one of my favourite progmetal epics ever.
I don't think any DT song will ever be better than 8V. But to enjoy IT I would say don't really think of it as a DT epic. Think of it as just a long song with different movements. Enjoy each piece for what it is. I mean, there are KILLER riffs and rhythms going on.
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I REALLY like 99% of what I´ve heard so far. I´m at work and have headphones on, and I´m clicking randomly at each song to see what grabs my attention first. But people keep interrupting me to talk about work!!! :facepalm:
That's why I got in extra early! ;D
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The hymn in Illumination Theory melted my heart. :heart
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To me this is their best album since Six Degrees.
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Ugh I've been saying Black Sabbath's Paranoid when I mean War Pigs. The vocal parts after the orchestration ends and bass & drums resume is what reminds me of War Pigs. which is then followed by a kick ass instrumental section with JP leading the way with some killer leads and doubled later.
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The hymn in Illumination Theory melted my heart. :heart
Read that as hymen.
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Only listened once so far, but I absolutely love it. I have a feeling this will ending up being my favorite DT album since Octavarium or even ToT.
Also, has anyone posted the lyrics yet?
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I'm gonna jump in the boat and say Illumination Theory is fantastic. It got my mind spinning on the first listen and is doing as much on the second one.
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Didn't like it much or at all, except for The Bigger Picture and The Looking Glass. The rest is stylistically okay and pretty well played (especially by Mangini) but in terms of composition and some of the production choices (sorry about the vagueness, but I fell asleep once typing this message, I'm that tired :laugh:) absolutely not my cup of tea.
Would like to congratulate the band about the overall positive response this record seems to be getting so far :tup
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Can we admit to hearing the leaked CDDA since the band has "leaked" the album officially in the form of the stream?
No, that would be against the rules of the forum.
So it can only be insinuated by speaking as though we've heard the actual CDDA without explicitly stating so, as you have. Got it.
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:lol :rollin
Simply laughing at someone else's opinion just because you disagree is baiting, plain and simple, and is against forum rules. This is the second time in this thread today that you've done it. Consider this your warning. This needs to stop.
And Lat and Snapple: Last warning before I start handing out bans.
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noxon was given a copy. He doesn't have a leak.
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Not sure I get the hate for the ambient section of IT. To me it is *THE* YES moment of the album. Sounds so much like a moment in a classic Yes epic it's not even funny. And I mean that in a GOOD way. I absolutely love it.
And then when it comes back in, didn't feel awkward to me at all like some people are claiming. As a matter of fact, it eerily reminded me of when the bass kicks back in on the "The boy has no potential" section from The Great Nothing by Spock's Beard. Am I the only one?
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Can we admit to hearing the leaked CDDA since the band has "leaked" the album officially in the form of the stream?
No, that would be against the rules of the forum.
So it can only be insinuated by speaking as though we've heard the actual CDDA without explicitly stating so, as you have. Got it.
Wrong again. The forum rules are quite clear that you cannot talk about leaks at all, whether overtly, by insinuation, or whatever. Bye now.
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I understand how some of you may think this is "recycled DT"...the whole album has a familiar feel to it. They have done most of it before. And yet, somehow these songs do not seem like copy/paste to me. They all sound fresh and very much like a new beginning for DT. It´s something I haven´t felt about a new DT album for a very long time. The last time I remember thinking this way was on ToT, but I didn´t like many songs in it, so that´s why I think this new one is their best since 6DOIT.
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How would you guys rank the album among the others? Obviously this is just at first blush, but here's how I'd have it.
1. Scenes From a Memory
2. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
3. Dream Theater
4. Train Of Thought
5. Images and Words
6. Falling Into Infinity
7. A Dramatic Turn of Events
8. Octavarium
9. Awake
10. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
11. Systematic Chaos
12. When Dream and Day Unite
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response on reddit is actually pretty good. i usually go there to read a more honest and sometimes harsher critique.
anyway i love enigma machine
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as per usual repeat plays are the key to DT - loving Enigma Machine on its second limit. Couldnt remember anything the first time.
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Here goes - hopefully it generates some discussion. None of this is meant to bash the band - I'm just trying to be as honest as possible. My opinions are also subject to change - these are my FIRST impressions.
Let me also preface this by saying that I fully understand this is based off an online stream. But while the sound quality is lower than the final product, I am commenting on the song writing rather than the sonic quality.
I also need to say that I love DT more than any other band. I feel the need to emphasize this because my general thoughts are quite negative.
False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it’s just doesn’t do anything musically. It doesn’t even function as an overture, it’s just there as a poor man’s Oculus ex Inferni.
4/10
The Enemy Inside
This song grew on me slightly since I first heard it and I find it decent at best. I think of it like I do Constant Motion, average but I know DT can do much better. Perhaps my favorite vocals on the album however.
6/10
The Looking Glass
Another decent song - I enjoy the verses but the shift in dynamics from verse to chorus really ruins the overall flow for me. They have a nice pace going then they completely slow it down and come in with a really strange vocal choice. I love the breakdown because I love Trial of Tears, but this is a prime example of where the band is just repeating themselves.
6/10
Enigma Machine
For a brand new instrumental I expected way more than this. It’s part Rawdog, it’s part Systematic Chaos – essentially it’s just a bundle of bland riffs and leads that go nowhere. I’m really disappointed with it - perhaps the worst DT instrumental to date.
2/10
The Bigger Picture
The whole song never goes anywhere to me. Feels really SC - especially the second half. It’s one dimensional in every way to me and the end feels tacked on.
2/10
Behind the Veil
Not sure if I see the need for 1:20 of ‘sounds’ (they seem to be the same ‘sounds’ the resurface in IT). Then we get another minute or so before the song really begins. The verses sound like I’ve heard them before and the pre-chorus is weird. The chorus itself is ok and the solo doesn’t do much for me.
4/10
Surrender To Reason
Most of this song feels like a block of meh – just chords with James singing in vocal style #2.The choir section @ 3:00 is maybe my favorite part of the album however.
3/10
Along For The Ride
Didn’t feel this one after they released it, and it’s no different in the album context.
4/10
Illumination Theory
Wow is this thing ever disjointed, I don’t even know where to begin. Long gone are the days of A Change of Seasons where DT knew how to knit a comprehensive song that was meant to be 20 minutes long. Instead we now get a musical blender of 20 different ideas, none of which flow in or out of each other.
It did offer a surprising small neo classical section which I really enjoyed for 10 seconds or so.
In TCOT the quiet break make complete sense and it fitted within the structure of the piece, but here we get a minute of ‘Close To The Edge’ sounds, followed by a completely out of place orchestral section.
4/10
Jame LaBrie
It seems to me that James now just has two modes, his breathy ballad vocals and his mid range heavier vocals. He never was the most dynamic vocalist but this record makes me wish DT had more to offer in this department.
2/10
John Petrucci
JP is my favorite musician of all time but I think he’s finally run out of ideas in the context of DT. Nothing sounded new here, his rhythms sounded recycled and his leads weren’t far behind. I feel like I could reference a past DT song for every single passage he played.
5/10
Jordan Rudess
I’m a huge Jordan fan, but he never really stands out on the record. This worries me especially when I hear his work on LMR which is 100 times better.
5/10
Mike Mangini
So, MM…I’m just going to be blunt here. Mangini is without doubt a talented drummer and a great guy. I just find him to have zero personality in his playing. He seems to rely on extremely repetitive fills, nothing unique or creative. Just fast fills. I can see why DT picked him as the new drummer but I think they made the wrong choice.
2/10
John MyungJM is definitely more apparent on this record in comparison to recent releases. I like the sound they dialed in for him and there are some cool sections, but nothing too memorable.
5/10
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Aside from the really in-your-face weird and absolutely fake sounding snare drum, this is a pretty good album.
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The hymn in Illumination Theory melted my heart. :heart
Read that as hymen.
That works too.
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Way too early to rank albums after just one half day of listens. Going to stop listening to DT12 put on some BTBAM, break some stuff and come back to DT12 and see how I feel.
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False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it’s just doesn’t do anything musically. It doesn’t even function as an overture, it’s just there as a poor man’s Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10
How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.
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Illumination Theory is the greatest 15+ minute song DT has ever written and is simply the best let alone prog song I've heard the entire year.
Sorry Riverside, The Depth Of Self Delusion is almost perfect.
Sorry Mr. Wilson, The Watchmaker is still your best solo song so far.
Sorry Haken,I still love Pareidolia.
Sorry Spock's Beard, Waiting For Me still is an amazing epic.
Sorry Leprous,I still can't get into your album. But I still think that Echo is an excellent song.
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I'm still waiting for the actual release to listen, since I actually want to have the tracks on my computer/iPod instead of just listening to a stream, but damn, the sheer amount of mixed opinions here has got me pretty excited.
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*snip*
I hated ADTOE. One day I used the album as sleeping music. And It clicked.
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False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it’s just doesn’t do anything musically. It doesn’t even function as an overture, it’s just there as a poor man’s Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10
How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.
like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department
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Illumination Theory is miles better than Octavarium
This makes no sense to me at all. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not saying you're opinion is shitty. But strictly speaking in terms of flow and substance, I don't quite understand how this conclusion happens.
Though I'm biased and think that 8VM is DT's best album and the title track is one of my favourite progmetal epics ever.
I kinda agree with Snapple :P Or well, they are both great songs, and I think Octavarium is better arranged and it feels much more like one whole epic piece, whereas IT feels more like several songs glued together. But I always felt Octavarium was a bit too long, and the first half of it was a bit boring for my taste, so I rarely bother to listen to the whole song. IT on the other hand I feel is just pure awesomeness all the way through ;D Possibly one of my all time DT favorites, but ofc way too early to make such a bold statement... :biggrin:
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The Outro from Illumination Theory is one of the most precious D.T moments since a long time.
Really, but really loved it.
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did anyone notice the scat voice heard in studio ep.3? i cannot find it
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False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it’s just doesn’t do anything musically. It doesn’t even function as an overture, it’s just there as a poor man’s Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10
How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.
like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department
So why write a song so similar. SX is one of their main contemporaries in the progressive metal genre. So putting together a piece so close to theirs seems like a really strange choice to me. I'm sure they could have been 'cinematic' without mimicing this song.
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I have heard this now almost 3 times but I just can't distinguish the red thread here. Every song is like way too different to each other. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I don't know if my opinions will change...
This is way too hard to review after so short time. It's like REALLY big piece of massive chocolate cake. [insert JP's guitar tooooone joke here.]
All I can say now that the best guitar riffs are in Illumination Theory, JLB is really shining here. Definitely the best moments of the album. Behind the Veil's, Enemy Inside's and Surrender to Reason's choruses were the only memorable moments now. Cool things here and there but nothing so special. Looking Glass was a nice surprise for me but it needs definitely more listens. Engima Machine is like Raw Dog II, AFTR is like Beneath the Surface/This Is the Life copy, The Bigger Picture is like Outcry2013. Yes I'm in a critic mood but that's how I feel.
DT is now more progressive than ever which is fine. I have grown a little out of that progressive thing but it's still enjoyable.
One thing I noticed is that Jordan is in smaller role than ADTOE when JP has taken much of Jordan's space here and there. At least in my opinion.
Mike's playing is great as usual but that snare still irritates me so much. It's much much better now than in Soundcloud quality but it's still too distinguishable.
Overall this is better than ADTOE but not a masterpiece. Maybe top5 DT albums if it grows well on me.
:)
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did anyone notice the scat voice heard in studio ep.3? i cannot find it
dont think the scat voice is there but the bit straight after is in Enigma Machine.
The Bigger Picture is starting to click now on 2nd listen!! :heart
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Some more thoughts.
-"The Enemy Inside" is a lot better than I originally thought. It works very well in its spot on the album.
-"The Looking Glass" is simply INCREDIBLE. I can't get through a proper second listen of the album cause I'm just replaying it over and over, haha. The part at about 3:15 sounds like it was taken straight out of "A Change of Seasons" or "Trial of Tears".
-The run of TEI/TLG/EM is very similar to Awake's CIAW/IF/Erotomania run. They're essentially parallel in structure and purpose.
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False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it’s just doesn’t do anything musically. It doesn’t even function as an overture, it’s just there as a poor man’s Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10
How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.
like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department
So why write a song so similar. SX is one of their main contemporaries in the progressive metal genre. So putting together a piece so close to theirs seems like a really strange choice to me. I'm sure they could have been 'cinematic' without mimicing this song.
Meh....I bought V because of the hype, and it bored me to tears. I've never listened to SX since, and as such, I've never heard the piece you're referring to.
....and I completely LOVED FAS. :metal
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False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it’s just doesn’t do anything musically. It doesn’t even function as an overture, it’s just there as a poor man’s Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10
How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.
like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department
So why write a song so similar. SX is one of their main contemporaries in the progressive metal genre. So putting together a piece so close to theirs seems like a really strange choice to me. I'm sure they could have been 'cinematic' without mimicing this song.
ehh it's not THAT close. FAS is pretty cool when not comparing to SX's past orchestral suites
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False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it’s just doesn’t do anything musically. It doesn’t even function as an overture, it’s just there as a poor man’s Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10
How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.
like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department
So why write a song so similar. SX is one of their main contemporaries in the progressive metal genre. So putting together a piece so close to theirs seems like a really strange choice to me. I'm sure they could have been 'cinematic' without mimicing this song.
Meh....I bought V because of the hype, and it bored me to tears. I've never listened to SX since, and as such, I've never heard the piece you're referring to.
....and I completely LOVED FAS. :metal
Imagine if you put as much research as you do religion into music.
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While listening to this the second time through, I came to the realization that I should really judge Dream Theater similarly to how I judge a band like Rush or Iron Maiden. Is this new album great? No, not by any stretch. But there are definitely a couple of good songs here, as well as one or two really good ones, and a handful of others which aren’t so bad. Since DT have already given me so much great music over the years, every quality song they put out from this juncture forward is really just a bonus point on their extensive playlist of great tunes, and the few clunkers they release don’t detract from their overall legacy at all.
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JPX, I can slightly feel you. I just couldn't say it so straight. Thanks for that.
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A little too poppy for me. Ive never liked the poppy side of Dt. I like the heavier songs on this album: Enemy Inside, Behind the Veil and a good portion of Illumination Theory. Enigma Machine was ok also. A lot of sappy lyrics here also. I was hoping for a more heavy album in the Train of Thought vein.
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Meh....I bought V because of the hype, and it bored me to tears. I've never listened to SX since, and as such, I've never heard the piece you're referring to.
....and I completely LOVED FAS. :metal
I don't get the Oculus hype actually. It's nice, but the melodies are completely forgettable and unlike most of the SX material, the over-the-top cheesiness just doesn't work in that song. Oculus and Serpent's Kiss are the only weak points of the otherwise amazing Paradise Lost, but they are so weak it's nothing but embarrassing. /inmyopinion
Sorry for off-topic.
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the last quarter of the bigger picture is beautiful AS FUCK
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False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it’s just doesn’t do anything musically. It doesn’t even function as an overture, it’s just there as a poor man’s Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10
How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.
like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department
So why write a song so similar. SX is one of their main contemporaries in the progressive metal genre. So putting together a piece so close to theirs seems like a really strange choice to me. I'm sure they could have been 'cinematic' without mimicing this song.
Meh....I bought V because of the hype, and it bored me to tears. I've never listened to SX since, and as such, I've never heard the piece you're referring to.
....and I completely LOVED FAS. :metal
Imagine if you put as much research as you do religion into music.
Come on, Zook. You think Oculus is better, he thinks FAS is better. It's a difference of opinion. So why don't you lay off a little?
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False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it’s just doesn’t do anything musically. It doesn’t even function as an overture, it’s just there as a poor man’s Occulus Ex Inferni.
4/10
How many bands have something as bad ass as Occulus Ex Inferni? It's hard to beat, really.
like i said before, it's just not fair to DT to be compared to SX in this department
So why write a song so similar. SX is one of their main contemporaries in the progressive metal genre. So putting together a piece so close to theirs seems like a really strange choice to me. I'm sure they could have been 'cinematic' without mimicing this song.
Meh....I bought V because of the hype, and it bored me to tears. I've never listened to SX since, and as such, I've never heard the piece you're referring to.
....and I completely LOVED FAS. :metal
Imagine if you put as much research as you do religion into music.
Come on, Zook. You think Oculus is better, he thinks FAS is better. It's a difference of opinion. So why don't you lay off a little?
He's never even heard Oculus. He wrote Symphony X off after listening to one album.
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Surrender to Reason is soo I&W :hefdaddy :corn
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Is FAS similar to Occulus Ex Inferni in any way other than that it's a 3-minute symphonic album opener?
Anyway, I'm midway through my 3rd listen to the album (which will be all I have time for today). I'm really amazed by what the band has done here. When I first heard ADTOE, the album didn't really have me that excited -- ADTOE was exactly the album I expected them to put out after MP left. But this one is really something special. This is a great, surprising, bold album. Can't wait for the tour. I hope they play the whole thing.
SOMEONE SAVE ME LOOK BEHIND THE VEIL. PLEASE DON'T WALK AWAYYYYYY
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Ok, one and a half listens in, and there is some really fantastic stuff on here. A lot to take in though, so I'm not going to be able to fully form an opinion, but it's all good and some of it is incredible. In particular, DAT ORCHESTRAL SECTION. Probably the most beautiful section of music DT have ever written.
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@Zook , there is nothing wrong with writing off a band after one album. If you don't like it, you don't like it.
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SOMEONE SAVE ME LOOK BEHIND THE VEIL. PLEASE DON'T WALK AWAYYYYYY
(https://i.imgur.com/eu90j.gif)
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Zook...just for you...I'll wipe the dust off V and try another few spins. (I *always* give everything I listen to "the five spin rule"....but sometimes it takes more...or sometimes it's just bad timing.)
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In particular, DAT ORCHESTRAL SECTION. Probably the most beautiful section of music DT have ever written.
It probably wasn't even written by all of DT but by JR himself. It makes me curious about his "Explorations for Keyboard and Orchestra".
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@Zook , there is nothing wrong with writing off a band after one album. If you don't like it, you don't like it.
I get that. I've written bands off after 1 song. I just find it odd that Jammin wouldn't even look up the song in question to compare.
And for the record, I have no problems with FAS.
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Since the JP forum is Down and there is no other place to discuss JP's playing...what say ye?
I think he took his playing to a new level again! That solo in Behind the vail! :hefdaddy
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@Zook , there is nothing wrong with writing off a band after one album. If you don't like it, you don't like it.
I get that. I've written bands off after 1 song. I just find it odd that Jammin wouldn't even look up the song in question to compare.
And for the record, I have no problems with FAS.
:tup
I think it's fun. I haven't heard the Symphony X one, either.
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i hear alot of textbook DT on this album but happy to see some different moments
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Here goes - hopefully it generates some discussion. None of this is meant to bash the band - I'm just trying to be as honest as possible. My opinions are also subject to change - these are my FIRST impressions.
Quite a good post, actually. I disagree with most of it, but hey, we can't all agree on everything. As I read through your points, there were things I flat out disagreed with, and others where my reaction was more, "I don't feel that at all, but I can see where you are coming from." Not worth responding to it all, but just a couple of quick points.
False Awakening Suite
I get the idea behind this, but it’s just doesn’t do anything musically. It doesn’t even function as an overture, it’s just there as a poor man’s Oculus ex Inferni.
4/10
Well, I mean, I kind of get where you are coming from. I wouldn't put it on par with any of the full-blown songs on the album. But then again, it isn't meant to be put on par with a "regular song" either. It's just an intro to set the mood before the actual songs start. And IMO, it does a pretty good job at that. Is it necessary? No. Is it something that I would ever listen to by itself outside the context of the album? No. But is it something that, by its inclusion, makes the album better by giving a good "setup" before getting into the songs proper? IMO, absolutely yes.
Jame LaBrie
It seems to me that James now just has two modes, his breathy ballad vocals and his mid range heavier vocals. He never was the most dynamic vocalist but this record makes me wish DT had more to offer in this department.
2/10
I disagree wholeheartedly here. Does James go uber high on this album? For the most part, no. Does he go way out on a limb with some very different vocal styles or effects? No. But his vocal lines sound really good to me. And, to my ears, there are a lot more of the soaring vocal lines that were so much a part of his signature sound, which I feel has not been represented as well on recent albums. I honestly feel these songs play to James' strenghts as a vocalist VERY well--much more so than anything in recent memory.
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@Zook , there is nothing wrong with writing off a band after one album. If you don't like it, you don't like it.
I get that. I've written bands off after 1 song. I just find it odd that Jammin wouldn't even look up the song in question to compare.
And for the record, I have no problems with FAS.
Won't even? I just heard about it for the first time today!
These are like the arguments my wife is making because I said I'd do the laundry 5 minutes ago.......so why isn't it DONE!!!!!
no...seriously...i have to go do laundry now. brb
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Zook...just for you...I'll wipe the dust off V and try another few spins. (I *always* give everything I listen to "the five spin rule"....but sometimes it takes more...or sometimes it's just bad timing.)
Obviously you already have V, but I'd recommend listening to the Odyssey (just the title track, for now), and all of Paradise Lost to ease into Symphony X.
Paradise Lost is amazing, and I don't much care for V either.
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no...seriously...i have to go do laundry now. brb
:lol
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Yeah so I wen't into this album with no expectations, it went over my head initially, and now i'm in love. I really hope DT make more songs like through the looking glass and surrender to reason in the future. Ilumination Theory is actually great once you start to digest it.
The only thing that bug me on this album are the solo tradoffs between jordan and John. They are the low points on the album for me.
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I really can't wait to read the lyrics, especially IT.
IT has some great vocal melodies, the Consider this question part especially I thought was catchy
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Illumination Theory positively blew me away. I can see why some people would be put off by the ambient piece of the song though, I liked it regardless - but can definitely understand why that would detract to some.
JLB did extremely well in my opinion.
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did anyone notice the scat voice heard in studio ep.3? i cannot find it
It's the drum solo in enigma machine. the scat was a vocalized representation of how the drum solo should sound, ie a template.
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I love that there isn't a single person on here who doesn't find IT to be a great song. Haven't heard it. Waiting for the official release. The opinions of most on here give me hope that IT will make this album a top 3 for me.
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It feels like the fans who started to listen to DT in the Train of Thought era "dislike"/doesn´t get this album...and those who started at I&W fkin loves it :metal
Btw... IT: 11:24 who said AWAKE :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
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I love that there isn't a single person on here who doesn't find IT to be a great song. Haven't heard it. Waiting for the official release. The opinions of most on here give me hope that IT will make this album a top 3 for me.
You missed Lat's posts.
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i SO wish the part @ 1:02- 1:08 in FAS lasted longer. my eyes widened at that section
im gonna wait for the actual CD to listen to IT. the rest is fair game. are these weird rules im setting for myself? absolutely
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I love that there isn't a single person on here who doesn't find IT to be a great song. Haven't heard it. Waiting for the official release. The opinions of most on here give me hope that IT will make this album a top 3 for me.
You must not have been looking very closely. Plenty of people think that IT doesn't work well as a single 19-minute song. (Not me, but some people do.)
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-"The Enemy Inside" is a lot better than I originally thought. It works very well in its spot on the album.
Yes, I'm enjoying it a lot more, now. People are complaining about the False Awakening Suite, but it's obviously an intro... this is the way intros are made... ???
I believe the album will be a grower. Not yet on my TOP 5, but maybe it'll be.
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Does anyone else feel that the pre-chorus/chorus for "Behind the Veil" just completely ruin the song? Like, I was headbanging to this groovin' riff, and then this stupid clean guitar section just pops in, and it absolutely killed it for me.
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I love that there isn't a single person on here who doesn't find IT to be a great song. Haven't heard it. Waiting for the official release. The opinions of most on here give me hope that IT will make this album a top 3 for me.
I wouldn't call IT "great". I thought it was pretty good with a few great moments. The noise part was completely unnecessary and the lyrics throughout the end were extremely preachy. The lart after the orchestra was probably my favorite section on the entire album though. Everyone, James included, was at the top of their game.
All in all though, I highly doublt it will ever eclipse TCOT, 6DOIT, ACOS or ITPOE for me
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Some further thoughts:
I think the lyrics on this album are really nice on the whole! Definitely more spiritual, some great topics, and nice execution. I'm someone who has been mostly happy with DT's lyrics the whole time, but personally I think JP is best when he presents his thoughts in a way that is maybe persuasive but ultimately lets us make our own minds up, and I think he does a really nice job on this album.
The riffs in Illumination Theory are amazing. I can see this being my favourite off the album.
MM is a monster.
JLB does a great job throughout the album. I've never been that fond of his high wailing and much prefer his more serious and emotive singing, and I think he sounds great on this album.
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1. I&W
2. Dream Theater
3. A Dramatic Turn Of Events
4. Scenes From A Memory
5. Awake
6. Octavarium (mainly because of the song Octavarium)
7. Falling Into Infinity
8. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
9. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
10. Train Of Thought
11. When Dream And Day Unite
12. Systematic Chaos
Best DT song: A Change Of Season
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Im SO in love with The Looking Glass. :heart :hefdaddy
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1. Scenes From a Memory
2. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
3. Awake
4. Images & Words
5. Falling Into Infinity
6. Dream Theater
7. Train of Thought
8. A Dramatic Turn of Events
9. Octavarium
10. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
11. Systematic Chaos
12. When Dream and Day Unite
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you are caught up in your graaaaaaaaaaaaviity
glorifying madness
singing your own praise
you live without SHAAAaaame
you're digging up a gold mine
standing on the sidelines
watching through the looking glass
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I think everyone in the band shares in an equal amount of props for this. Everyone shines when asked to shine and everyone
shows restraint when it helps the song(s). So far the biggest 'feel' difference between this and recent DT output is JR's
change in approach. He really does a great job of creating a mood, or painting a scene if you will and lays off the uber fast
techno playing. I'm only 1 DT fan but I sure as hell appreciate this approach. I also feel like there is no unnecessary wanking
for the sake of making a song longer. Everything feels 'right'.
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The Looking Glass could be the most interesting song DT made since Awake era...talk about "stepping out of the box". Such a great song, such a great chorus = "you live without shame" ...gives me fkin goosbumps!!!!! :metal
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It's the drum solo in enigma machine. the scat was a vocalized representation of how the drum solo should sound, ie a template.
thanks! :tup
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I just wrote out an enormous post on my thoughts about the album. But it's far too long and ultimately a bit pointless, since I've only listened to it twice and that's nowhere near enough time for me to judge a single song, let alone a whole album. So for now, I'll just list my early track rankings instead:
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender to Reason
3. The Enemy Inside
4. False Awakening
5. Engima Machine
6. Along for the Ride
7. The Bigger Picture
8. Behind the Veil
9. The Looking Glass
I guess everyone noticed the transcribed midi thing that someone on here made from one of the studio vids? :biggrin: Was really cool hearing that again in FAS.
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Dream Theater will always be my favorite band but I have to say I am disappointed after 1 listen.
I like what they were attempting to do. I have been wanting them to go back to putting shorter more focused songs on an album for a while now while trimming the fat. (Much like they did on Awake or even Falling to Infinity in where the epic songs like Trial of Tears and Trial Of Tears didn't feel like they needed trimming)
To my ears most of these songs are not very catchy or memorable.
I liked The Bigger Picture and Along for the Ride the best but I actually enjoyed the ADTOE far more. Something like Beneath the Surface blows these ballads away IMO. Also nothing on this album compares to Breaking All Illusions.
I would personally rank their albums something like this
1 Images
2 Scenes
3 Awake
4 Falling
5 Six Degrees
6 Octavarium (had a few clunkers but had catchy and memorable songs on it with some great melodies)
7 ADTOE
8 Cleaning out the Closet (I count this as a release because it has great quality stuff on it)
9 A Change of Seasons (love the song....if it had more songs on it I would rate this EP higher)
10 Black Clouds
11 SC
12 ToT
13 DT (Self Titled)
14 WDADU (loved the actual songs but can't get past Charlie's voice so I have to rank this the lowest)
Hopefully it will move up after repeated listens but I honestly don't think it will much.
Still a huge fan and still buying it and I think it is quality and see why others love it. It just unfortunately doesn't do it for me (as of yet) even though I want to love it.
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Dream Theater will always be my favorite band but I have to say I am disappointed after 1 listen.
I like what they were attempting to do. I have been wanting them to go back to putting shorter more focused songs on an album for a while now while trimming the fat. (Much like they did on Awake or even Falling to Infinity in where the epic songs like Trial of Tears and Trial Of Tears didn't feel like they needed trimming)
To my ears most of these songs are not very catchy or memorable.
I liked The Bigger Picture and Along for the Ride the best but I actually enjoyed the ADTOE far more. Something like Beneath the Surface blows these ballads away IMO. Also nothing on this album compares to Breaking All Illusions.
I would personally rank their albums something like this
Images
Scenes
Awake
Falling
Six Degrees
Octavarium (had a few clunkers but had catchy and memorable songs on it with some great melodies)
ADTOE
Cleaning out the Closet (I count this as a release because it has great quality stuff on it)
A Change of Seasons (love the song....if it had more songs on it I would rate this EP higher)
Black Clouds
SC
ToT
DT (Self Titled)
WDADU (loved the actual songs but can't get past Charlie's voice)
Hopefully it will move up after repeated listens but I honestly don't think it will much.
Still a huge fan and still buying and I think it is quality. It just unfortunately doesn't do it for (as of yet) even though I want to love it.
:omg: You need to listen 2-3 times, then you´ll go :hefdaddy
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The Looking Glass is so wicked! Can't get that out of my head. This album just absolutely kicked me in the ass. It's so good! My expectations lowered after I heard AFTR, but coming in today the rest of the album just absolutely was incredible and everything works so much better in context. Dream Theater seems to be back to what they were creativity wise with where they were at around the SDOIT period. That was honestly exactly what I was wishing for. SO pumped on this album holy balls :metal
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Trial of Tears vibe on The Looking Glass solo.
Shame about the chorus though, COMPLETELY ruins the song.
I'm late in listening and posting this but I noticed this almost immediately. Great track.
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Seriously, I dont understand how anyone can judge DT after one listen!
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I think everyone in the band shares in an equal amount of props for this. Everyone shines when asked to shine and everyone
shows restraint when it helps the song(s). So far the biggest 'feel' difference between this and recent DT output is JR's
change in approach. He really does a great job of creating a mood, or painting a scene if you will and lays off the uber fast
techno playing. I'm only 1 DT fan but I sure as hell appreciate this approach. I also feel like there is no unnecessary wanking
for the sake of making a song longer. Everything feels 'right'.
yeah great observation on JR... well all of what you said really :)
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OK, my first impression of Enigma Machine was unmemorable, but on further listens, it's awesome. It's got a lot of personality to it. It's super crunchy, technical, all over the place, and even kind of ditsy at places. You can just picture them all playing it together, making faces and having fun. I particularly think that the little bit at 4:25-4:27 is pretty humorous.
Oh and you can really hear Myung.
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Dream Theater will always be my favorite band but I have to say I am disappointed after 1 listen.
I like what they were attempting to do. I have been wanting them to go back to putting shorter more focused songs on an album for a while now while trimming the fat. (Much like they did on Awake or even Falling to Infinity in where the epic songs like Trial of Tears and Trial Of Tears didn't feel like they needed trimming)
To my ears most of these songs are not very catchy or memorable.
I liked The Bigger Picture and Along for the Ride the best but I actually enjoyed the ADTOE far more. Something like Beneath the Surface blows these ballads away IMO. Also nothing on this album compares to Breaking All Illusions.
I would personally rank their albums something like this
Images
Scenes
Awake
Falling
Six Degrees
Octavarium (had a few clunkers but had catchy and memorable songs on it with some great melodies)
ADTOE
Cleaning out the Closet (I count this as a release because it has great quality stuff on it)
A Change of Seasons (love the song....if it had more songs on it I would rate this EP higher)
Black Clouds
SC
ToT
DT (Self Titled)
WDADU (loved the actual songs but can't get past Charlie's voice)
Hopefully it will move up after repeated listens but I honestly don't think it will much.
Still a huge fan and still buying and I think it is quality. It just unfortunately doesn't do it for (as of yet) even though I want to love it.
:omg: You need to listen 2-3 times, then you´ll go :hefdaddy
I hope so. It happened to me before when Falling Into Infinity was released. After 2-3 listens I loved it (minus You Not Me and Just Let Me Breathe)
The problem with this one is that it isn't very catchy. Dream Theater is excellent at writing complex songs with catchy and memorable vocal melodies....I just don't hear many of them on this album. It surprises me to say it....but one of the most catchy songs was the single and it is the heaviest track.
I recognize the quality on this album and think it was a great idea to trim the fat. I just wish the songs were better (to my ears)
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I think everyone in the band shares in an equal amount of props for this. Everyone shines when asked to shine and everyone
shows restraint when it helps the song(s). So far the biggest 'feel' difference between this and recent DT output is JR's
change in approach. He really does a great job of creating a mood, or painting a scene if you will and lays off the uber fast
techno playing. I'm only 1 DT fan but I sure as hell appreciate this approach. I also feel like there is no unnecessary wanking
for the sake of making a song longer. Everything feels 'right'.
ehh kinda disagree about the unnecessary wanking. pretty much whenever there are those keyboard/guitar solo tradoffs it is simply not even music imo, and ruins the vibe. That's just me though...
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Dude, just listen to the album again. No one remembers much on their first listen.
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Wow....some people saying "lack of catchiness" and it just makes me feel like I must have been listening to a different album.
I can't get half these songs out of my head. The Looking Glass in particular.
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Wow....some people saying "lack of catchiness" and it just makes me feel like I must have been listening to a different album.
I can't get half these songs out of my head. The Looking Glass in particular.
Sometimes I feel "catchiness" to be subjective. I, personally, find quite a few of the passages and choruses off of this album as being really catchy! :metal
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Sounds like there's a blanket over my speakers.
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OK, my first impression of Enigma Machine was unmemorable, but on further listens, it's awesome. It's got a lot of personality to it. It's super crunchy, technical, all over the place, and even kind of ditsy at places. You can just picture them all playing it together, making faces and having fun. I particularly think that the little bit at 4:25-4:27 is pretty humorous.
Oh and you can really hear Myung.
The facts are showing: you must listen to this album many, many times before "getting" it.
I can say that about "The Looking Glass". On first listening, I was all "what the hell is that?". It seemed to me a weak song.
Then it began to change. First it was "it sounds like Rush"...
But now I like it! The vocals are great. The song is very good. :corn
And about Enigma Machine: amazing. Better than Erotomania. Better than any other instrumental, but Ytse Jam. :metal
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Song impressions
False AS - Reminds me of Overture form Six Degrees. Fine as an intro piece.
The Enemy Inside - The Heavy Track (like The Glass Prison of Six Degrees) or The Root of All Evil from Octavarium. Solid song but far from Dream Theater's best
The Looking Glass - Up beat and reminds me of Don't Look Past Me from Cleaning out the Closet. It is an OK song that ends abruptly and leaves a weird taste. I actually like Don't Look Past Me better personally.
Enigma Machine - They play their instruments great on the song but it is not very catchy or memorable. I wish they would stop doing instrumentals on albums honestly. They have enough going on in their songs that they don't need to waste the album space unless the instrumental is simply amazing. I will probably end up skipping this one. Sounds like something they would throw in the middle of a song to needlessly stretch it out on something like the SC album. Rather would have had a song here with vocals to make the album feel more complete.
The Bigger Picture - Best song on the album so far for me. Nice melodic song with a lot going on. I actually felt something in this song. I love when JP can convey emotion through his guitar (like the soft section in Lines in the Sand)
Behind the Veil - Something was off on my 1st listen. I think I will like this one better upon repeated listens so I won't comment much on it to give it a chance.
Surrender to Reason - Another one that I think I will like better on repeated listens. Wasn't too impressed on my 1st listen though. Thought I would like it better after reading some of the comments.
Along for the Ride - 2nd best track on the album but I still like the ADTOEs ballads better. This Is The Life, Far From Heaven, and Beneath The Surface are more heart felt and catchy to me.
IT - Think I will like it better on the 2nd listen but was disappointed. I liked Jame's singing but the song felt like different songs spliced together unlike Octavarium and A Change of Seasons. Something felt off about the flow.
Like I said. I hope I like it a lot more after repeated listens but I think it is one of their weakest albums so far.
I realize that there is quality on the album but for me the songs didn't grab me. Most just aren't catchy, memorable, or pleasing to my ears.
Still a huge fan and will buy whatever they put out and I commend them for their attempt. Glad others enjoy it.
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Wow....some people saying "lack of catchiness" and it just makes me feel like I must have been listening to a different album.
I can't get half these songs out of my head. The Looking Glass in particular.
Sometimes I feel "catchiness" to be subjective. I, personally, find quite a few of the passages and choruses off of this album as being really catchy! :metal
It totally is.
I also find it funny how for some people, something needs to be "catchy" for them to consider it good, and for some others anything that is "catchy" is automatically "mainstream" which must make it bad.
But yeah, I'm finding some of the melodies on this album sticking with me after only a couple of listens, but I expect it to require more listens for the album to really sink in.
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just dont give up mate - keep listening! DT is like a fine wine! ;)
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The facts are showing: you must listen to this album many, many times before "getting" it.
Totally agree. On first listen I was on the fence about the album. I'm on my fourth listen now and it's growing on me BIG TIME. I think it's one of the band's best works. Too soon to rank it, but it's up there. Brilliance.
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just dont give up mate - keep listening! DT is like a fine wine! ;)
All good wines improve with age. ;)
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I think it's a pretty good album.After one and a half listens,i did find some beautiful and memorable moments,but i didn't find any that would shock me.Something like BAI solo or the emotion of BTS.Maybe i was expecting something extraordinary,like Scenes,and i didn't hear it.My expectations were too high.I'll surely give it dozens of listens,bur as of now it's not something special.And i was waiting for JP to push his craftamanship even more and give us a performance to remember.Don't know.I hope it'll grow on me.
How sweet would it be for DT13 to be a concept one.To ooze with emotion,as SFAM did.I'm hoping.
I love DT,but i expect the best out of them,to top themselves with each and every album,to avoid repetition and get in new territories.And of course,to be as emotional as one band can be.
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just dont give up mate - keep listening! DT is like a fine wine! ;)
All good wines improve with age. ;)
exactly lol! and Surrender to Reason is doing just that at the moment to me!
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One thing I am noticing (on my 5th listen thru LOL) is the use of effects throughout, flangers come in for a moment, vocals echo at times, a lot of really cool things well beyond that... Really fun when a new thing pops out at you that way.
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just dont give up mate - keep listening! DT is like a fine wine! ;)
All good wines improve with age. ;)
exactly lol! and Surrender to Reason is doing just that at the moment to me!
Yeah but then there is Behind the Veil... I still can't get over how much momentum it loses moving from verse to pre-chorus. Honestly what were they thinking.
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It feels like the fans who started to listen to DT in the Train of Thought era "dislike"/doesn´t get this album...and those who started at I&W fkin loves it :metal
Count me out of the "those who started at I&W fkin loves it" category.
I think when a lot of us (including myself) get over our expectations, we can appreciate it for what it is.
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I'm having difficulty finding the stream for New Zealand, really want to listen!
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I've been so hooked on IT I've hardly listened to the other songs, but now that I'm listening to the rest I'm almost speechless. Not sure if I've ever been so exited about an album release before. This is ridiculously good. Seriously. :hefdaddy
Not sure if I'll get to sleep tonight, lol. :metal
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NOTE: I haven't listened to the album yet.
I see a lot of people comparing FAS to Overture from SDOIT.
I'm assuming this is just in style, and not necessarily meaning that it references other songs on the album?
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I've only listened to it once, but my initial impression is that this is a really really solid album. Highlight moments for me is the orchestra section and James's insane notes in Illumination Theory. Also I hear a lot of Rush in this album, but I have no issues with that. I need to listen to it plenty more before being able to form an honest opinion, but first impressions are great. :2metal:
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And about Enigma Machine: amazing. Better than Erotomania. Better than any other instrumental, but Ytse Jam. :metal
[/quote]
Better then Erotomania?? You've gone crazy son ;)
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This really clicks with me having heard it twice. Everything to me seems well structured and everybody sounds awesome especially JP, dat guitar, and JLB, dem vocals! I really like the flow of the tracks so like a sort of up and down feeling with heavy and melodic mixed with the softer elements, absolutely love it!!
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just dont give up mate - keep listening! DT is like a fine wine! ;)
All good wines improve with age. ;)
exactly lol! and Surrender to Reason is doing just that at the moment to me!
Yeah but then there is Behind the Veil... I still can't get over how much momentum it loses moving from verse to pre-chorus. Honestly what were they thinking.
That doesnt bother me at all tbh - that first big riff sounds like something off an old Metallica album :metal
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I've listened up to 1-2 minutes through The Bigger Picture. Only songs that stood out were the first two. Hopefully the next half is better.
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I really dig this album's diversity, acknowledging every aspect this band has ever had at one point.
The Looking Glass was way better on 2nd listen, absolutely great chorus and guitar solo. I still don't get the accents at the end though? WTF was that? And JLB's vocals are suddenly SUPER loud at the end! I kinda like the adventurous stuff they're doing. Enigma Machine 2nd listen now, reaally entertaining. They're grooving hard on this record, it's badass. Best use of heaviness since Train of Thought.
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Basically, it's a good album, but I still can't get over how familiar it all sounds, whether DT are going back to their own sound or borrowing from their tried and true influences (Rush, Megadeth, Yes, Queen, etc.).
Listening to this record in such close proximity to JLB's newest solo effort, I can't help but feel like DT would be a lot more interesting with another primary songwriter in the band. John Petrucci is an excellent player and songwriter, but after the instrumental when you have that string of 6-7 minute songs, the whole "perspective" starts to get pretty repetitive. Not because the material is bad, per se, but just because there's not a lot of variety. It's all very John P sounding. I'd REALLY like to hear another member step up and really contribute something different. Well all know what John P is capable of - let's here a song that's almost solely Rudess' or Myung's baby.
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God damn I love Mangini's cymbal work, he gets so much radular work in there.
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Are we seriously judging a DT album after one listen?
Come on guys... you of all people should know that you need at least 100 listens to rank it properly :)
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I don't see how people say this isn't memorable. I think its one of their most memorable albums since SDOIT maybe even earlier. It's different but still Dream Theater. That's exactly what I wanted!
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Loving the album so far. I listened to each song 2 or 3 times and just finished The Bigger Picture. I'm going to wait to listen to the rest of the album for my ride from work to Gamestop for the midnight release of GTAV :D
The whole album is so so so so so good IMO. I definitely do not have a single complaint yet. I will say the weakpoint to me is The Enemy Inside.
Also: Enigma Machine = Final Fantasy boss music :tup
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2 listens in and I'm really liking it.
Really love The Looking Glass, Along for the Ride and Illumination Theory.
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My opinions so far:
FAS - A really cool intro
TEI - Took me a few listens to like it, but now it's pretty awesome
TLG - Disappointed. From the descriptions I thought it'd be cool, but it's bleh
EM - Decent. I'll probably like this when I listen to it more
TBP - Pretty cool. Not as good as FAS or TEI
BTV - Almost finished it, but so far it's freaking awesome! My favorite song of DT12 yet
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I don't know if I'm raving too early, but in terms of songwriting alone, this at least surpasses every Roadrunner era album so far. Or so it seems on 2nd listen.
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Also: Enigma Machine = Final Fantasy boss music :tup
OOooooooh, I should play FFX tonight while listening to this. :tup
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at first listen I liked some random stuff here and there.
But now it´s SOOOOO GOOOOOOD!!!! WIIIIIEEIEIEI :yarr
I think it´s their strongest work!! to date!
I haven´t had those kind of feelings since Awake was released. I´m happy
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I'm really curious as to what guitars/tunings Petrucci has used on this album. Seems like he used a lot of 7-string/heavier tunings.
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NOTE: I haven't listened to the album yet.
I see a lot of people comparing FAS to Overture from SDOIT.
I'm assuming this is just in style, and not necessarily meaning that it references other songs on the album?
It is not like Overture at all in either respect. Stylistically FAS is heavier, darker, and more cinematic. It's like Oculus ex Inferni was to Paradise Lost. And FAS doesn't reference other music on the album.
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Also: Enigma Machine = Final Fantasy boss music :tup
OOooooooh, I should play FFX tonight while listening to this. :tup
I said the same thing about FAS.
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Haven't listened yet, but to those who think Illumination Theory sounds disjointed (which it very well may), you can't really cite A Change of Seasons as an example of a "smoothly flowing" epic. ACoS is my favorite DT song, but quite frankly it's full of abrupt transitions and strange pace changes.
-J
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Haven't listened yet, but to those who think Illumination Theory sounds disjointed (which it very well may), you can't really cite A Change of Seasons as an example of a "smoothly flowing" epic. ACoS is my favorite DT song, but quite frankly it's full of abrupt transitions and strange pace changes.
-J
This.
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Hello! I'm new to the forum, and I just had to get in on all this excitement!
I already had a good chuckle about the "DT12" controversy. Hmmmmm, how about TSTA (The Self Titled Album) ??
Anyway, not that anyone asked, here's what I think about the new album. I sort of see it as the Moving Pictures of their discography. Not because of any nods to Rush, but more to do with the songwriting and it's place in their discography. For example, it's pretty technical, but just in order to serve a purpose in the songwriting. Many of the songs are pretty concise, but there is a prog-epic on the last third of the album. It's a really positive album. Dream Theater has talked about why they made a self-titled album, and, Rush had talked about how Moving Pictures felt like a real "arrival" for them. All just fun stuff to think about, and obviously I wish DT lots of success with this one!
Also, I got a chance to listen to the FLACs of the ADTOE, and I am betting that the drums are going to be awesome once we get away from the streaming sites.
Anyway.... glad to be part of the forum!
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I don't know if I'm raving too early, but in terms of songwriting alone, this at least surpasses every Roadrunner era album so far. Or so it seems on 2nd listen.
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I think this album is going to have to grow on me.
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So far, I'm liking what I'm hearing. I'm not blown away by anything, but I bet that has yet to come. My favourites so far are Surrender to Reason, Beyond the Veil (though the final chorus is a little weird) and The Bigger Picture. Haven't gotten to IT yet, I've been busy.
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HO.LEE SHIT. MIKE MANGINI IN ENIGMA MACHINE, ESPECIALLY WHERE HE JUST GOES NUTS.
Yeah, I love this album, not even through my second listen, but I think this is a Top 3'er for me.
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Haven't listened yet, but to those who think Illumination Theory sounds disjointed (which it very well may), you can't really cite A Change of Seasons as an example of a "smoothly flowing" epic. ACoS is my favorite DT song, but quite frankly it's full of abrupt transitions and strange pace changes.
-J
Disjointed epics are pretty standard for DT. Everything from ACOS to 8V to ITPOE are just different thematic sections stapled onto each other and IT is no different. That's just the way they write 'em. Some better than others, but if you enjoy this aspect of DT writing, I don't see why you would like IT a lot more or a lot less than previous epics.
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After many a beer, me and Alice have finally listened to the album. If ever they wanted an album that summarises their career, it is this. Throughout our first listen we heard references to the highlights to every album to date, from Scenes to BC&SL. Our jaws hits the floor at the orchestral section in IT. The Bigger Picture is a definite favourite so far. The cat enjoyed it too.
Off to the GTAV midnight release soon. Toodles shit lords :)
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Listening to the string section in IT and looking at the new background on this forum (the planet part) gave me goosebumps. It somehow fit together like in a documentary of our wonderful universe. I understand why DT called this album cinematic.
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F***ing amazing.
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Hard piece to bite, it will take a lot of spins before I can rank it. I think this is definitely not DT playing safe. Love behind the veil on first listen. And, holy shit Mangini!
After 2 listens I can only say it's rock solid.
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Dream Theater presents "Dream Theater: Mangini Unleashed."
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Just finished my first listen. Honestly I've been falling out of DT for a long time because my tastes have changed and ToT was the last album I loved. This album is actually one that I can see myself putting on every once in a while. It's great, it's heavy, it's not over the top. Truly this is my favorite DT album. The easter egg is beautiful, I'm going to cut it out and put it as it's own song.
My musical tastes and DT's music have long disconnected, our paths finally cross again at this album.
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sent TLG and STR to my dad to check out. He's been to DT shows with me but still doesn't listen to them (besides the ACOS covers :D) on his own. He's the biggest Rush fan, maybe he'll dig it
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This album is, in my opinion, the best and most consistent effort since SDOIT *drops the mike*
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I knew the main theme in Illumination Theory reminded me of something: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ADAxhhNaWbI#t=133
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Haha.
What is this drop the mike business ? i see it everywhere.
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Some artificial sounding JLB vocals here and there, some weird moments, but all in all this freakin' slays. Illumination Theory's whole instrumental intro is through the roof!
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i caved. listening to IT now
this song is a riff factory so far
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Best one of the RR era by far. Not as jaw dropping or as diverse or as atmospheric as some older albums, but what a mature and balanced combination of all these elements! Also, concise and cinematic as never before. Congrats DT and especially JP. As a player, composer and producer I feel he had a real breakthrough with this one :tup
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The first riffs in Enigma Machine! :metal Took me several listens, but man does this one rock! Love it!
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5th time listening to the album= This album blows my mind its so freeeeakin great!! Shoulda been the I&W follow-up album :tup
The Looking Glass chorus might be their best chorus ever
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5 minutes into IT. i wish the rest of the album was on the level that the first 5 mins of this song is
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I wish James would have kept using that "megadeth" vocal style throughout the entirety of Behind the Veil. It just sounds so cool, and then he switchs to a typical voice after. Kind of a let down.
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Hello! I'm new to the forum, and I just had to get in on all this excitement!
I already had a good chuckle about the "DT12" controversy. Hmmmmm, how about TSTA (The Self Titled Album) ??
Anyway, not that anyone asked, here's what I think about the new album. I sort of see it as the Moving Pictures of their discography. Not because of any nods to Rush, but more to do with the songwriting and it's place in their discography. For example, it's pretty technical, but just in order to serve a purpose in the songwriting. Many of the songs are pretty concise, but there is a prog-epic on the last third of the album. It's a really positive album. Dream Theater has talked about why they made a self-titled album, and, Rush had talked about how Moving Pictures felt like a real "arrival" for them. All just fun stuff to think about, and obviously I wish DT lots of success with this one!
Also, I got a chance to listen to the FLACs of the ADTOE, and I am betting that the drums are going to be awesome once we get away from the streaming sites.
Anyway.... glad to be part of the forum!
Welcome!! You picked a crazy time to join, but this is an awesome place. BTW, does(did) your dad make some high end audio products and briefly marry a certain (hot for her age) movie star?
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Hello! I'm new to the forum, and I just had to get in on all this excitement!
I already had a good chuckle about the "DT12" controversy. Hmmmmm, how about TSTA (The Self Titled Album) ??
Anyway, not that anyone asked, here's what I think about the new album. I sort of see it as the Moving Pictures of their discography. Not because of any nods to Rush, but more to do with the songwriting and it's place in their discography. For example, it's pretty technical, but just in order to serve a purpose in the songwriting. Many of the songs are pretty concise, but there is a prog-epic on the last third of the album. It's a really positive album. Dream Theater has talked about why they made a self-titled album, and, Rush had talked about how Moving Pictures felt like a real "arrival" for them. All just fun stuff to think about, and obviously I wish DT lots of success with this one!
Also, I got a chance to listen to the FLACs of the ADTOE, and I am betting that the drums are going to be awesome once we get away from the streaming sites.
Anyway.... glad to be part of the forum!
Welcome!! You picked a crazy time to join, but this is an awesome place. BTW, does(did) your dad make some high end audio products and briefly marry a certain (hot for her age) movie star?
LOL, I'm just a wanna-be audiophile and I couldn't think of a good name using McIntosh or Krell!
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About 4 listens through. Definitely not disappointed, the cinematic addition really gives it a fresh feel. The album as a whole just plows no draggy parts, and actually feels quite short now...
Seriously cant wait to hear this stuff live! :hefdaddy
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no one warned me of the RIFFERY in IT. this is the sickest thing ive heard DT play in a long time
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About 4 listens through. Definitely not disappointed, the cinematic addition really gives it a fresh feel. The album as a whole just plows no draggy parts, and actually feels quite short now...
Seriously cant wait to hear this stuff live! :hefdaddy
I agree, it's going to be so good live.
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no one warned me of the RIFFERY in IT. this is the sickest thing ive heard DT play in a long time
riffs for days.
almost a lot like pure riffery.
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no one warned me of the RIFFERY in IT. this is the sickest thing ive heard DT play in a long time
riffs for days.
almost a lot like pure riffery.
:lol
I had a co-worker that would say For Days after random things. Thank you for reminding me about that guy
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no one warned me of the RIFFERY in IT. this is the sickest thing ive heard DT play in a long time
riffs for days.
almost a lot like pure riffery.
exactly
(https://i.imgur.com/OV5yOAu.jpg)
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I was a bit disappointed to hear DT shamelessly stealing Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto for the basic theme of Illumination Theory. Stealing classical music is a pretty cheap way to add some prestige (and nice melodies) to your music without many people noticing (since classical is not very popular kind of music anymore - unless you steal Beethoven's Fifth of the Swan Lake or something :p ) Anyway, I'm sure DT have "borrowed" riffs and hooks over the years as every other band on the planet but that one really bugged me. And the fact that Jordan seems to be behind the IT opening and the string section where the melody is repeated, makes it more obvious - as a pianist he must have known what he was stealing.
Other than that, I'm still a bit sceptical about the album. It's solid and I like the sound but I think they have written better melodies in the past - even in ADTOE (LNF, BAI, BITS). And Octavarium is way better than IT. IT is not very cohesive in my opinion. Anyway, I'll reserve judgement until I've listened to the whole album a few times. It's DT after all - I just started liking This Dying Soul few months ago, almost 10 years after I listened to it for the first time :) SFAM was the only DT album I instantly liked so I'll just wait to see if this one will grow on me.
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Also: Enigma Machine = Final Fantasy boss music :tup
OOooooooh, I should play FFX tonight while listening to this. :tup
Yea I really had FFX in mind when I was listening to Enigma Machine lol.
When the hell is the release of the HD remake btw?
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This is one entertaining record that's for sure.
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After listening for the first time, I'm really glad DT has a bass player again. I think that back in the 90's, this is exactly how I would have thought they would sound today, if that makes any sense.
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Waiting for this day since last monday when i heard the album at a RR listening party.
I have to say, i'm preatty happy for how well has been received this album so far.
To me, it does scream DREAM THEATER out and loud from start to finish, and while being a clear summary of what they've been in these wonderful 28 (28 right?) years, it's infused with so much energy and joy it makes you smile, and also with a couple of new really interesting things (e.g. IT orchestra section).
I don't want to repeat things that have been wrote a certain amount of time, but kudos to John Petrucci, a truly great person, a personality which is well reflected in his joy and excitement in playing after all these years...
Thanks DT for having made it again.
And thanks DTF for the ride, it has been a nice one once again!
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The easter egg is beautiful and bittersweet. Just magical. It almost scares me how it makes me feel. I may rethink my decision to stop therapy.
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I still think that DT13 will be a concept album. maybe even a double.
Something in DT12 sounds like it's leading towards something massive.
Plus if they keep to their schedule - DT13 will be out in 2015 - which is their 30th anniversary.
So what better way to mark their 30th than with a double concept album and just go all out ?
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OK, so I've listened up through The Bigger Picture.
I'm floored. Exactly what I was hoping for thus far. Ambitious, epic, heavy, proggy, yet concise and effective as well. Simply fantastic.
Hope the rest of the album holds up. I've got to run some errands.
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I was a bit disappointed to hear DT shamelessly stealing Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto for the basic theme of Illumination Theory. Stealing classical music is a pretty cheap way to add some prestige (and nice melodies) to your music without many people noticing (since classical is not very popular kind of music anymore - unless you steal Beethoven's Fifth of the Swan Lake or something :p ) Anyway, I'm sure DT have "borrowed" riffs and hooks over the years as every other band on the planet but that one really bugged me. And the fact that Jordan seems to be behind the IT opening and the string section where the melody is repeated, makes it more obvious - as a pianist he must have known what he was stealing.
Other than that, I'm still a bit sceptical about the album. It's solid and I like the sound but I think they have written better melodies in the past - even in ADTOE (LNF, BAI, BITS). And Octavarium is way better than IT. IT is not very cohesive in my opinion. Anyway, I'll reserve judgement until I've listened to the whole album a few times. It's DT after all - I just started liking This Dying Soul few months ago, almost 10 years after I listened to it for the first time :) SFAM was the only DT album I instantly liked so I'll just wait to see if this one will grow on me.
Your first post on the forum and you call them plagiarists..... nice. ::)
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Finally a DT album that touches upon many styles, without falling flat on a few occasions. They sound like they've got it all covered this time.
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OK, so I've listened up through The Bigger Picture.
I'm floored. Exactly what I was hoping for thus far. Ambitious, epic, heavy, proggy, yet concise and effective as well. Simply fantastic.
Hope the rest of the album holds up. I've got to run some errands.
J-just wait. You're not even done yet.
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I was a bit disappointed to hear DT shamelessly stealing Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto for the basic theme of Illumination Theory. Stealing classical music is a pretty cheap way to add some prestige (and nice melodies) to your music without many people noticing (since classical is not very popular kind of music anymore - unless you steal Beethoven's Fifth of the Swan Lake or something :p ) Anyway, I'm sure DT have "borrowed" riffs and hooks over the years as every other band on the planet but that one really bugged me. And the fact that Jordan seems to be behind the IT opening and the string section where the melody is repeated, makes it more obvious - as a pianist he must have known what he was stealing.
Other than that, I'm still a bit sceptical about the album. It's solid and I like the sound but I think they have written better melodies in the past - even in ADTOE (LNF, BAI, BITS). And Octavarium is way better than IT. IT is not very cohesive in my opinion. Anyway, I'll reserve judgement until I've listened to the whole album a few times. It's DT after all - I just started liking This Dying Soul few months ago, almost 10 years after I listened to it for the first time :) SFAM was the only DT album I instantly liked so I'll just wait to see if this one will grow on me.
Never heard of "Beethoven's fifth of the swan lake"! :P
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On my first listen... I can seriously say, I'm not that impressed... The only exceptions are TEI, 90% of IT, some of BTV and some of STR...
I really hope this grows on me :'(
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I was a bit disappointed to hear DT shamelessly stealing Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto for the basic theme of Illumination Theory. Stealing classical music is a pretty cheap way to add some prestige (and nice melodies) to your music without many people noticing (since classical is not very popular kind of music anymore - unless you steal Beethoven's Fifth of the Swan Lake or something :p ) Anyway, I'm sure DT have "borrowed" riffs and hooks over the years as every other band on the planet but that one really bugged me. And the fact that Jordan seems to be behind the IT opening and the string section where the melody is repeated, makes it more obvious - as a pianist he must have known what he was stealing.
Other than that, I'm still a bit sceptical about the album. It's solid and I like the sound but I think they have written better melodies in the past - even in ADTOE (LNF, BAI, BITS). And Octavarium is way better than IT. IT is not very cohesive in my opinion. Anyway, I'll reserve judgement until I've listened to the whole album a few times. It's DT after all - I just started liking This Dying Soul few months ago, almost 10 years after I listened to it for the first time :) SFAM was the only DT album I instantly liked so I'll just wait to see if this one will grow on me.
Your first post on the forum and you call them plagiarists..... nice. ::)
I mean I can hear similarities in the structure of the string parts but to call it stealing , Hardly.
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JP's guitar solo in Behind The Veil, it's so ridiculously over the top and amazing :rollin
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Your first post on the forum and you call them plagiarists..... nice. ::)
[/quote]
Haha, true, that was not very nice of me but I love them that's why I expected better.
Maybe it's not that big of a deal. DT never rely on a single melody for a song anyway, so even if they borrow some stuff they can get away with it.
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Dissapointed,big time.Very loud mix and sound,had a headache listening to it with my earphones.Nothing new on the table.They have the ability,potential and experience to write something magnificent,yet they are lacking ispiration these days.I hope they could write melodies like the octavarium flute ones at the beggining or the guitar solo at the end or a ballad like Through her eyes.But maybe we have to compromise with what they present us in this album.And BAI is FAR more interesting,adventurous,inspired,melodic and emotional than anything from this.Sadly..
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Dissapointed,big time.Very loud mix and sound,had a headache listening to it with my earphones.Nothing new on the table.They have the ability,potential and experience to write something magnificent,yet they are lacking ispiration these days.I hope they could write melodies like the octavarium flute ones at the beggining or the guitar solo at the end or a ballad like Through her eyes.But maybe we have to compromise with what they present us in this album.And BAI is FAR more interesting,adventurous,inspired,melodic and emotional than anything from this.Sadly..
This, i think they need to whip out more creativity and experimental stuff
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Your first post on the forum and you call them plagiarists..... nice. ::)
Haha, true, that was not very nice of me but I love them that's why I expected better.
Maybe it's not that big of a deal. DT never rely on a single melody for a song anyway, so even if they borrow some stuff they can get away with it.
[/quote]
Clearly you're not familiar with the controversy between ItPoE and Priest.
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Well I can't stop listening to the break in Illumination Theory right now...
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I was a bit disappointed to hear DT shamelessly stealing Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto for the basic theme of Illumination Theory. Stealing classical music is a pretty cheap way to add some prestige (and nice melodies) to your music without many people noticing (since classical is not very popular kind of music anymore - unless you steal Beethoven's Fifth of the Swan Lake or something :p ) Anyway, I'm sure DT have "borrowed" riffs and hooks over the years as every other band on the planet but that one really bugged me. And the fact that Jordan seems to be behind the IT opening and the string section where the melody is repeated, makes it more obvious - as a pianist he must have known what he was stealing.
Other than that, I'm still a bit sceptical about the album. It's solid and I like the sound but I think they have written better melodies in the past - even in ADTOE (LNF, BAI, BITS). And Octavarium is way better than IT. IT is not very cohesive in my opinion. Anyway, I'll reserve judgement until I've listened to the whole album a few times. It's DT after all - I just started liking This Dying Soul few months ago, almost 10 years after I listened to it for the first time :) SFAM was the only DT album I instantly liked so I'll just wait to see if this one will grow on me.
Your first post on the forum and you call them plagiarists..... nice. ::)
I mean I can hear similarities in the structure of the string parts but to call it stealing , Hardly.
I'm not talking about structure. I'm talking about the melody itself. The opening melody of IT is the same (or *very similar") to the one when the piano enters for the first time in the Tchaikovsky concerto. Anyway, as I wrote above, maybe it's not that big a deal but it was the first thing it came to my mind when I listened to IT.
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TEI is the only time I'm really having trouble with the mastering. I forgive them, when the music is this good.
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Without reading 20 pages, do we know how long the stream is gonna be running? I'm at work and wouldn't be able to listen for about 5-6 hours :(
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FAS and IT are cool. EM and StR might end up being okay. Everything is ridiculously boring or bad or both at the same time. Very underwhelming and probably one of the worst DT records, in my opinion. Damn shame.
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I asked on twitter and the answer was " A Week ".
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This, i think they need to whip out more creativity and experimental stuff
Just curious, I hear this "experimental" thing mentioned a lot. What songs in their past do you consider experimental? I am not being antagonistic here, really an honest question as it's something I don't get.
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The riffs in the begining of Behind the Veil!!! :metal
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I asked on twitter and the answer was " A Week ".
Gracias Senor :hat
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This, i think they need to whip out more creativity and experimental stuff
I think they did that on these last two albums.
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Behind the Veil is the only stand out song for me right now. That chorus - so catchy...
IT on the other hand, does nothing for me. ACOS, 8V is safe. Surrender to Reason of FAS might be my least favorites
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This, i think they need to whip out more creativity and experimental stuff
Just curious, I hear this "experimental" thing mentioned a lot. What songs in their past do you consider experimental? I am not being antagonistic here, really an honest question as it's something I don't get.
I mean they bill themselves as a progressive rock/metal band...it's kinda supposed to be their MO. And comparing, say, SFAM to the last three albums, the one difference I notice is they really play it safe or just don't try many new things like they used to. Lots of power chords and arpeggios, the chorus melody of TEI sounds like literally all of BCSL and ADTOE, and I haven't heard a truly soft song since TALW.
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Sometimes these streams will play even during the week of album release, not sure if DT or RR would extend it but I have in the past been able to listen to them longer than a week.
Also anyone else reminded of Porcupine Tree's Futile (~3:55 - 4:20) when listening to Illumination Theory (~4:40-4:58)
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I asked on twitter and the answer was " A Week ".
Gracias Senor :hat
:hug: :hifive:
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I was a bit disappointed to hear DT shamelessly stealing Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto for the basic theme of Illumination Theory.
Thank you for writing this. I had Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto in the back of my head for hours now, after listening to IT, but couldn't remember the name.
Yes, I agree that it's a bit disappointing when you consider how the string section was marketed. If they had just paid homage in a humble way, it would have been great (like the Rush homage in The Looking Glass). But after all the fuss about the band made about the string section I'm somewhat disappointed to see so much similarity to a well known theme.
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JLB so badass when DT picks up after the orchestra, what a moment. Didn't know he still had that kind of stuff in him.
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Listened to everything a few times through, and it's growing stronger and stronger with each listen. Standout tracks so far are STR, IT, BTV, and TBP.
I really like what DT has done here, this album is definitely ballsy and loud but it's thoughtful, progressive and melodic at the same time!
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I'm rather stunned, and my thirst for DT has been quenched temporally. Perhaps I'll want to listen to it again later. I must say I'm fucking blown apart. I can't pin a word or phrase to describe the album at the moment. The songs I feel will have to grow on me are The Bigger Picture because I wasn't prepare for it feeling as long as it was and to the very cinematic nature of it, and Behind The Veil because I was thinking of an overall heavier song and set my bar up to something heavy, while the song was more melodic than I thought it would be. Perhaps Surrender to Reason to a lesser extent: it wasn't what I had in mind it would be, I was thinking of a more "classic-DT loved tune", maybe with a somewhat more rock-oriented approach due to its length and the description previously given of the solo (which did sound as I thought it would) however, it was great and once I get used to it I know I will love it far beyond what I can imagine at the moment.
My biggest advice to those who have not heard the album is to go without any preconceptions of it.
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I was a bit disappointed to hear DT shamelessly stealing Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto for the basic theme of Illumination Theory.
Thank you for writing this. I had Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto in the back of my head for hours now, after listening to IT, but couldn't remember the name.
Yes, I agree that it's a bit disappointing when you consider how the string section was marketed. If they had just paid homage in a humble way, it would have been great (like the Ruch homage in The Looking Glass). But after all the fuss about the band made about the string section I'm somewhat disappointed to see so much similarity to a well known theme.
I don't know whether or not they've actually heard that song, but speaking from my own experience it's very easy to write music that sounds like something else without knowing. That includes songs that I've never even heard before. Sometimes other people point out to me that something I wrote sounds like some band I've never heard of, and they're completely right.
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Sorry to ask a stupid question but does anyone know what the chirping sound on IT from 2:00 to 2:15 or so is there for ? It's a little irritating but would be less so if I understood it more.
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BEHIND THE VEIL, THE BIGGER PICTURE, ILLUMINATION THEORY IT'S ALLLL AMAAAZING!!!! THIS IS MY NEW FAVORITE DT ALBUM!
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Well... Mi expectations were truly high, so it's gonna take some time for me to digest this record. FAS fail as the intro I expected ("Star Wars" kind of? Come on!) Bridges in the sky intro is one hundred times better IMHO. I miss the harmonies, textures and emotion of ADTOE. So far, I can say: "cinematic" is not my cup of tea.
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So I have listened to this album three times and wow... it's the first time I've not liked a new DT release. Grant it there have been times I needed multiple listens on a DT album for it to click with me but this is just not doing it for me. I remember the fist time I heard TOT and I hated it but after the second listen it started to click and after the third I loved it. ADTOE I loved from the first listen and I still think it's the best since SDOIT. To me there is just nothing memorable on this album. I'm also going to say something that I'll probably get flack for but whatever. ADTOE was really good but like it or not it did follow a lot of the song structures form the I&W album. This album sounds different than anything they've done before but the song structures just sound sloppy and all over the place. I think this is where MP is missed. I think MP was very much involved in the way the songs were arranged in not only DT but every other band he's in, where he is involved in the song writing process. I recently read in a Neal Morse interview that one of the things that MP does well is that he is a very good producer and arranger of songs. For example, I think the fact that now James Labrie is pretty much recording all the vocals without wanting anyone to "bother him" in the studio has hurt the vocal melodies on this album and MP would never have stood for that. I think all of these songs could have been better arranged from all aspects to be honest though. Anyway I do understand that I'm in the very small minority here and most DT fans seem to really like the album and I'm happy for you guys, It's just not doing anything for me, and to me this is my least favorite DT album ever.
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Other than Rush, can anyone name another band that after 25 years into their career can even come close to putting out music this energetic, original, true to their "heritage" but yet fresh and interesting? The amount of discussion is witness to this. Even if this is not what you hoped for, at least you had expectations based on past releases. I for one am grateful for the effort DT put into making a record that would impress the loyal while remaining relevant enough to attract new listeners. There is SOOO much music to be digested here, take your time, let it soak in and be thankful DT is not on auto-pilot after all the years of amazing music.
And JLB on IT ........just amazing.
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The choruses and vocal melodies take time to hit you, but when they do you find yourselves singing and humming them nonstop
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Other than Rush, can anyone name another band that after 25 years into their career can even come close to putting out music this energetic, original, true to their "heritage" but yet fresh and interesting? The amount of discussion is witness to this. Even if this is not what you hoped for, at least you had expectations based on past releases. I for one am grateful for the effort DT put into making a record that would impress the loyal while remaining relevant enough to attract new listeners. There is SOOO much music to be digested here, take your time, let it soak in and be thankful DT is not on auto-pilot after all the years of amazing music.
And JLB on IT ........just amazing.
If they were still actually making music, Jethro Tull. I'm sure there are others; I just don't listen to them.
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The ending of IT (not easter egg) is wonderous. LTL's outro will stand forever as a milestone of incomparable beauty but this blows pretty much every other album ending out of the water, especially 8V.
James singing "Never Knooooow" on the outro. Chills. Major chills.
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The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil, and Surrender to Reason all seem like filler songs to me.
Really loved all the other songs though right away. Illumination Theory does seem really disjointed and not thought out I admit.
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Fuck, it's great. Thank you, DT!
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Other than Rush, can anyone name another band that after 25 years into their career can even come close to putting out music this energetic, original, true to their "heritage" but yet fresh and interesting?
Are we talking about the same Rush? The Rush that is responsible for the albums from Power Windows to Clockwork Angels?
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Other than Rush, can anyone name another band that after 25 years into their career can even come close to putting out music this energetic, original, true to their "heritage" but yet fresh and interesting?
Are we talking about the same Rush? The Rush that is responsible for the albums from Power Windows to Clockwork Angels?
Coincidentally, Power Windows and Clockwork Angels are two of my favorite Rush albums. :lol :loser:
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I can't think of any band who still sound this fresh and inspired on their 12th album.
U2's 12th album was properly dreary and sounded tired. [ NLOTH ]
* Speaking of U2 - can anyone name any other band that has been around for almost 40 years with NO line up changes ?
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Other than Rush, can anyone name another band that after 25 years into their career can even come close to putting out music this energetic, original, true to their "heritage" but yet fresh and interesting?
Are we talking about the same Rush? The Rush that is responsible for the albums from Power Windows to Clockwork Angels?
Coincidentally, Power Windows and Clockwork Angels are two of my favorite Rush albums. :lol :loser:
Power Windows is my FAVORITE Rush album.
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I have to let this thing sit with me, but it's damn well enjoyable thus far.
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I can't think of any band who still sound this fresh and inspired on their 12th album.
Nailed it.
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Other than Rush, can anyone name another band that after 25 years into their career can even come close to putting out music this energetic, original, true to their "heritage" but yet fresh and interesting? The amount of discussion is witness to this. Even if this is not what you hoped for, at least you had expectations based on past releases. I for one am grateful for the effort DT put into making a record that would impress the loyal while remaining relevant enough to attract new listeners. There is SOOO much music to be digested here, take your time, let it soak in and be thankful DT is not on auto-pilot after all the years of amazing music.
And JLB on IT ........just amazing.
Thank you.
Yea let the music sink in for atleast a week or two, I think as fans we owe them that after they have spent months in a studio writing music basically for us fans. It's not a hard sacrifice atleast for me. Besides why rush to a conclusion when music is to be enjoyed primarily and not judged.
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I am honestly in shock right now. I just listened straight through. I think this might be up there with the best. This is not like any previous DT album. This almost sounds like DT is 2.0 and most of the other stuff we had over the years was just the beta version.
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Best of all - all the signature DT wacky stuff on this album reminds me of why I liked them in the first place and doesn't sound forced and shoe-horned in like on the last few Portnoy albums.
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I am honestly in shock right now. I just listened straight through. I think this might be up there with the best. This is not like any previous DT album. This almost sounds like DT is 2.0 and most of the other stuff we had over the years was just the beta version.
I'd actually say this is more like DT 3.0; DT 1.0 was I&W/Awake and DT 2.0 was SfaM/6DoIT. :tup But yeah, you bring up a great point. The band sounds reinvigorated on this album! :metal
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Dream Theater is to A Dramatic Turn Of Events what Images And Words is to When Dream And Day Unite.
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I don't have a trained ear nor do I care about choruses or melodies or any of that. Does this album move me? Yes. Do I like it? Yes. Someone mentioned it early, those that have been following them since I&W get this album. I know I do. Again, its nice just to listen to it without being an asshole and to pick out each little note. Just listen to it for what it is, good music.
For those of you listening to it on SoundCloud.. LOL sorry. It sounds totally killer on my stereo at home, you'll see. Trust me.
Can't wait to get my other copy from Amazon.
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Dream Theater is to A Dramatic Turn Of Events what Images And Words is to When Dream And Day Unite.
I don't agree only because I think ADToE is an amazing album, whereas When Dream and Day Unite is a rather weak album.
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Sorry to say it, but for me, this is easily the worst album DT has made. Very disappointing. I've never been let down with a DT release. This is just not good. There are, of course, a handful of strong moments, but I think overall the album is very weak. Will post more details when I've spun it a couple more times.
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Other than Rush, can anyone name another band that after 25 years into their career can even come close to putting out music this energetic, original, true to their "heritage" but yet fresh and interesting? The amount of discussion is witness to this. Even if this is not what you hoped for, at least you had expectations based on past releases. I for one am grateful for the effort DT put into making a record that would impress the loyal while remaining relevant enough to attract new listeners. There is SOOO much music to be digested here, take your time, let it soak in and be thankful DT is not on auto-pilot after all the years of amazing music.
And JLB on IT ........just amazing.
A ton of bands... Talking mainly about PROG or PROG related bands that are releasing great stuff for years, there is Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Rush, Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Zappa...
I don't think DT even begins to reach the level of consistency of these bands though (8varium-SC-BC&SL killed it).
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IT time....loving the riffs so far! :metal :metal :metal And here I was complaining about their decrease in metal songs. :\
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Other than Rush, can anyone name another band that after 25 years into their career can even come close to putting out music this energetic, original, true to their "heritage" but yet fresh and interesting? The amount of discussion is witness to this. Even if this is not what you hoped for, at least you had expectations based on past releases. I for one am grateful for the effort DT put into making a record that would impress the loyal while remaining relevant enough to attract new listeners. There is SOOO much music to be digested here, take your time, let it soak in and be thankful DT is not on auto-pilot after all the years of amazing music.
And JLB on IT ........just amazing.
A ton of bands... Talking mainly about PROG or PROG related bands that are releasing great stuff for years, there is Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Rush, Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Zappa...
I don't think DT even begins to reach the level of consistency of these bands though (8varium-SC-BC&SL killed it).
At first I was going to disagree with you, but now that I think about it I think you're right.
Personally Metropolis Pt. 2 and SDOIT were almost flawless albums. The rest of their work is good with some great songs and some truly terrible songs.
This album to me is almost flawless.
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Sorry to say it, but for me, this is easily the worst album DT has made. Very disappointing. I've never been let down with a DT release. This is just not good. There are, of course, a handful of strong moments, but I think overall the album is very weak. Will post more details when I've spun it a couple more times.
When you do give us more details, be sure to also tell us how you discovered them. I'm curious if it's newer fans or older fans that like DT12 less.
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the beginning to the string section in LT has very YES Close to the Edge like sound which I like
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Okay, so. I listened to it.
It was OK? I dont know. False Awakening Suite sounds like what I imagine to be an album full of Symphony X riffs compressed into 3 minutes, complete with those great fake orchestra sounds. Not sure what they were going for here at all.
The three-song-run of Enemy Inside, Looking Glass, and Enigma Machine is the best stretch of music on the album. After that, it just kinda spirals out of control for me. Unmemorable riffs, melodies, and solos until that gorgeous orchestral section of Illumination Theory, which I was hoping would just take over the rest of the song so I wouldn't have to hear the inevitable trade-off solo section. But the reprisal of the theme and the guitar solo that followed -while perhaps the most predictable music moment of 2013 - were really nice. Mangini really went to the Portnoy playbook for that last drum fill though, eh?
That little outro track was my favorite piece of music on the record.
I don't see much to come back to here, unfortunately. Maybe this band isn't for me anymore. I don't know.
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Other than Rush, can anyone name another band that after 25 years into their career can even come close to putting out music this energetic, original, true to their "heritage" but yet fresh and interesting? The amount of discussion is witness to this. Even if this is not what you hoped for, at least you had expectations based on past releases. I for one am grateful for the effort DT put into making a record that would impress the loyal while remaining relevant enough to attract new listeners. There is SOOO much music to be digested here, take your time, let it soak in and be thankful DT is not on auto-pilot after all the years of amazing music.
And JLB on IT ........just amazing.
A ton of bands... Talking mainly about PROG or PROG related bands that are releasing great stuff for years, there is Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Rush, Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Zappa...
I don't think DT even begins to reach the level of consistency of these bands though (8varium-SC-BC&SL killed it).
At first I was going to disagree with you, but now that I think about it I think you're right.
Personally Metropolis Pt. 2 and SDOIT were almost flawless albums. The rest of their work is good with some great songs and some truly terrible songs.
This album to me is almost flawless.
Ah i forgot ADTOE... and Rush released some weak albums in the 90's.
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Sorry to say it, but for me, this is easily the worst album DT has made. Very disappointing. I've never been let down with a DT release. This is just not good. There are, of course, a handful of strong moments, but I think overall the album is very weak. Will post more details when I've spun it a couple more times.
Mike, is that you in there?
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Illumination Theory is the epic to end all epics. I knew once I heard it once in its entirety that it would be right up there with Change of Seasons for me.
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I don't see much to come back to here, unfortunately. Maybe this band isn't for me anymore. I don't know.
That's fine, people change. For me, this is like the album I've been waiting over 10 years for them to write, so I couldn't be happier.
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I don't see much to come back to here, unfortunately. Maybe this band isn't for me anymore. I don't know.
That's fine, people change. For me, this is like the album I've been waiting over 10 years for them to write, so I couldn't be happier.
This is the first album by them I've actually been waiting for as I became a fan like right after ADToE was released
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it's really hard to digest right now. I am sort of annoyed by FAS and Enigma Machine, TEI AND AFTR I am already bored with, I can't really remember anything from TLG, BTV, or STR particularly. Parts of IT were cool enough for me to remember, but the rest is a blur right now.
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Oh, and for the people keeping track, I became a fan in 2005. Scenes from a Memory was my first album and Falling Into Infinity my favorite.
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I don't see much to come back to here, unfortunately. Maybe this band isn't for me anymore. I don't know.
That's fine, people change. For me, this is like the album I've been waiting over 10 years for them to write, so I couldn't be happier.
This is the first album by them I've actually been waiting for as I became a fan like right after ADToE was released
I can't pinpoint when I became a fan - it just sort of crept up on me. The first album I got into was Train of Thought and I seem to remember loving Octavarium after a long car ride with a friend who showed it to me. The first album that came out after I became a fan was Systematic Chaos.
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Other than Rush, can anyone name another band that after 25 years into their career can even come close to putting out music this energetic, original, true to their "heritage" but yet fresh and interesting? The amount of discussion is witness to this. Even if this is not what you hoped for, at least you had expectations based on past releases. I for one am grateful for the effort DT put into making a record that would impress the loyal while remaining relevant enough to attract new listeners. There is SOOO much music to be digested here, take your time, let it soak in and be thankful DT is not on auto-pilot after all the years of amazing music.
And JLB on IT ........just amazing.
A ton of bands... Talking mainly about PROG or PROG related bands that are releasing great stuff for years, there is Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Rush, Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Zappa...
I don't think DT even begins to reach the level of consistency of these bands though (8varium-SC-BC&SL killed it).
This far into their careers? I'll give you Floyd, but the Division Bell is really a Gilmour album. PT and Opeth have not hit this age in their career and not sure PT will do much more and seriously Opeth > DT??. And Zappa, well I guess an aquired taste. KC doesn't come close and I already mentioned Rush.
Next????
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IT middle: I like the sound effects, the middle sounds like a movie score. Would that be a live orchestra or a tape?
Love the flange out of the orchestra part to :metal :metal Damn James, haven't heard those notes from you in years!
Haters gonna hate, but that's how I like DT. Best song on the album.
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I don't have a trained ear nor do I care about choruses or melodies or any of that. Does this album move me? Yes. Do I like it? Yes. Someone mentioned it early, those that have been following them since I&W get this album. I know I do. Again, its nice just to listen to it without being an asshole and to pick out each little note. Just listen to it for what it is, good music.
For those of you listening to it on SoundCloud.. LOL sorry. It sounds totally killer on my stereo at home, you'll see. Trust me.
Can't wait to get my other copy from Amazon.
I like your comment.
I have not listened yet as I am waiting until my Itune preorder comes available. I plan to burn to a cd get in my truck and head down I-24 and crank it up. Will have to watch my speed on the interstate. :)
Now that the drama is almost over, bring on the North American tour dates!
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Wow, ballsy album. People weren't kidding when they said it was different and wasn't like any other DT album. It really is different, I mean you can hear little tidbits from all of their works but it really doesn't sound like anything they've put out before. After two listens, my reaction is pretty favorable. Just quick thoughts:
FAS: Heavier than I thought, but badass. Midi section rocks!
TEI: Not much to say, still a pretty awesome song.
TLG: Likin' this one! Glad they can keep it short but make it feel like it could be 10 minutes long. The chorus is great, as well as the guitar solo.
EM: Well... Not sure what to think on this one. This one might grow on me but as a DT instrumental it doesn't do much for me. It sounds kind of bland in the instrumental department. Not my favorite on the album so far.
TBP: Never mind Enigma Machine, THIS song rocks. Great verses, amazingly catchy chorus, and an incredible outro. Very cinematic and inspirational in its own way. Might be my 2nd favorite behind IT.
BTV: I feel like this song gets kind of lost in the midst of this album, as in I can't find much that stands out in it. The intro is cool, and I like the chorus and the guitar solo. The chord progression in the outro is really cool as well, and reminds me of The Great Debate for some reason.
STR: This is an interesting one... It might grow on me the most. It has a strange structure with some crazy riffs and baselines. The thing that stands out the most for me is the chorus, and, once again, DAT OUTRO.
AFTR: Again, not much to say. Good prelude to IT, the bridge is good too. Gon' kill when played live.
IT: I'm not sure exactly what to say about this one, it's crazy and mind blowing and unique and woah. It's probably my favorite from the album. The intro is a riff factory, but I really like the very beginning. The verses and choruses are unique and heavy, the short instrumental part afterwards is nuts. Can't complain about the orchestral section, I like it a lot, and it transitions very nicely into the next part.
What really shines for me is the part about 11 minutes in; HOLY SHIT JAMES! :omg: :hefdaddy The song only gets better from there with a heavy instrumental section and SWEET solos from JP and JR.
More high notes from James in the outro, and great guitar work from JP to top it off. Easter egg is pretty. Love it :D
This may be the best DT album since SDOIT. The band sounds reinvigorated and energized. :tup :metal
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Opeth > DT??. And Zappa, well I guess an aquired taste. KC doesn't come close and I already mentioned Rush.
Next????
Just because you like DT more?
I'm talking about not only my opinion, but the opinion of prog and music lovers in general.
Talking about consistency, Opeth or KC owns DT very easily.
Ah, don't overlook the releases by Rush during 90's.
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Opeth > DT??. And Zappa, well I guess an aquired taste. KC doesn't come close and I already mentioned Rush.
Next????
Just because you like DT more?
I'm talking about not only my opinion, but the opinion of prog and music lovers in general.
Talking about consistency, Opeth or KC owns DT very easily.
I find Opeth and DT someone difficult to compare... Seeing how in some ways they are in complete different genres of music than each other.
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Opeth > DT??. And Zappa, well I guess an aquired taste. KC doesn't come close and I already mentioned Rush.
Next????
Just because you like DT more?
I'm talking about not only my opinion, but the opinion of prog and music lovers in general.
Talking about consistency, Opeth or KC owns DT very easily.
I find Opeth and DT someone difficult to compare... Seeing how in some ways they are in complete different genres of music than each other.
See it like this... in comparing the consistency of great albums they released for their respective genre or simply great music overall.
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Heritage sticks out like a bland stinker with a few neat songs though.
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Opeth > DT??. And Zappa, well I guess an aquired taste. KC doesn't come close and I already mentioned Rush.
Next????
Just because you like DT more?
I'm talking about not only my opinion, but the opinion of prog and music lovers in general.
Talking about consistency, Opeth or KC owns DT very easily.
I find Opeth and DT someone difficult to compare... Seeing how in some ways they are in complete different genres of music than each other.
See it like this... in comparing the consistency of great albums they released for their respective genre.
In terms of consistency I could see what you mean, though I don't think Opeth is even in the same universe as DT when it comes to those top albums.
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Opeth > DT??. And Zappa, well I guess an aquired taste. KC doesn't come close and I already mentioned Rush.
Next????
Just because you like DT more?
I'm talking about not only my opinion, but the opinion of prog and music lovers in general.
Talking about consistency, Opeth or KC owns DT very easily.
Ah, don't overlook the releases by Rush during 90's.
Yeah, I think your opinion that there is some general "prog and music lovers in general" consensus on the issue to be somewhat misguided. But this isn't really a thread about what the rest of the prog community thinks about Opeth. Let's keep it on topic.
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In this very moment, i've just realized that to me, the second half of IT, including the Orchestra interlude of course, it's the best DT moment. Ever.
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In this very moment, i've just realized that to me, the second half of IT, including the Orchestra interlude of course, it's the best DT moment. Ever.
I wish I could say that, but the first time I heard SFAM, Metropolis, Trial of Tears, TCOT, ANTR, ITPOE 1 and 2, I thought they had "the best DT moments. ever."
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Has anyone notice the Marillion influence on The Bigger Picture more or less on the 06:40 mark?
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Opeth > DT??. And Zappa, well I guess an aquired taste. KC doesn't come close and I already mentioned Rush.
Next????
Just because you like DT more?
I'm talking about not only my opinion, but the opinion of prog and music lovers in general.
Talking about consistency, Opeth or KC owns DT very easily.
Ah, don't overlook the releases by Rush during 90's.
Yeah, I think your opinion that there is some general "prog and music lovers in general" consensus on the issue to be somewhat misguided. But this isn't really a thread about what the rest of the prog community thinks about Opeth. Let's keep it on topic.
We can't discuss music if is just a matter of personal opinion :biggrin:
Ok, about the new album, i think it's a grower, maybe it turns out to be my in my upper list of favorite DT albums...don't know if i will like it more than ToT or 8varium though.
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I'm going to hold off putting my full confidence in what I'm about to say next. But it might be true. I still need to digest about 3 more songs on the record. And of course time will tell. But here it is:
Dream Theater is the best DT album.
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Think The Bigger Picture has the best chorus.
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I actually quite enjoyed that.
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The ending of Illumination Theory is so sad. :'(
Surprisingly; never in my life have I heard something so melancholy.
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Think The Bigger Picture has the best chorus.
I agree - that or The Looking Glass.
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The ending of Illumination Theory is so sad. :'(
Surprisingly; never in my life have I heard something so melancholy.
Somewhat ironically, it sounds like a variation off of Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQFZ-v-CMNw
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On my third go around now and it's sounding better with every listen.
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Oh, and for the people keeping track, I became a fan in 2005. Scenes from a Memory was my first album and Falling Into Infinity my favorite.
Oh hey, that's around the same time as me! Joe, when did you join DTF?
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Wasn't Enigma Machine supposed to have a bass solo?
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Jesus mother flippin christ,
IT, the 11:50'ish mark, James Labrie is raping and pillaging villages with that voice.
Dear god I love this album, I'm with H almost, it's at #2 for me, but this seriously may surpass I&W.
Like guys, I was expecting to like the DT album, but wasn't really thinking it'd crack my Top 5, but Rivers of Nihil are going to have to shit out a more than perfect record, and Chvrches can't surpass this monster.
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I really like the album, but damn my ears are tired. Soundcloud stream with quality headphones does not mix! :)
My favorite song after two listens is The Looking Glass.
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I'm shocked there are this many people disliking the album. It's rare I get chills on my first time through an album, but it happened to me multiple times. I'm genuinely surprised people that post on a DT fan forum can dislike this album. I'm even more surprised to see comments like "oh, more crappy modern DT, guess I'm done listening to this band." In my opinion, the past 2 albums are so consistent and so breathtaking, they can be compared against ANY DT album.
For the record, I think SC and BC&SL are both good albums, so maybe my opinion is just different from all of yours. I don't get people that dislike modern DT. I sure don't get the people that claim to not even LIKE any DT albums since Octavarium. I'd say this past decade has been glorious for DT music. I'd say the past 4 albums can be compared to any 4 album run. That's just my opinion. I don't get how something I get so much joy out of can be so hated by fans of the same band as me, but alas.
Also, I just "got" AftR. Glad I got it. First time I got chills from it. Isn't it nice when a song finally clicks for you?
10/10 album.
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What the fuck did I just listen to? Illumination theory has to be one of the most beautiful pieces of progressive music ever written. The ending just made an old-ass man weep like a baby.
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:lol Xbox, i'm surprised you liked the album this much.
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Wasn't Enigma Machine supposed to have a bass solo?
I was wondering that too. The song itself was still very epic, 10/10, but I was like "Where is my bass solo?" :P
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Just wanted to say that the easter egg gives me some "The Raven That Refused To Sing" vibes, in best of ways, absolutely haunting.
EDIT: Can't wait for my 2LP copy to arrive :caffeine:
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I'm going to hold off putting my full confidence in what I'm about to say next. But it might be true. I still need to digest about 3 more songs on the record. And of course time will tell. But here it is:
Dream Theater is the best DT album.
I'm very tempted to agree with you. I think this album might be the band's Moving Picture or The Dark Side of the Moon.
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Man, the easter egg is great... can't believe they will throw it away, it deserves a full song at least :facepalm:
Anyone who have a opportunity to talk to the members of the band, please tell them to not just throw away that beautiful piece.
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Man, the easter egg is great... can't believe they will throw it away, it deserves a full song at least :facepalm:
They didn't throw anything away. The easter egg ends the last song, and it's gonna be on this recording forever.
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This triggered snare is awful. At least it's not I&W bad, but it's really bad sounding.
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For me, it's all about that "first impact", like with Enemy Inside or IT. Or like the first four of SC. :metal :metal I'll give all the other songs a chance to grow on me with the CD. Time and place and mindset makes a difference in making a song "click". That just didn't happen with me with ADTOE, and I gave it several spins.
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I honestly had no problem with it... When I listen to Dream Theater, I hear great music. I don't try to hear snare sounds.
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I love it. Can't wait to here the CD. FAS and STR still have a little growing to do on me but the rest has everything that I love about DT. IT will quickly move into my Top 5 and may or may not challenge ACOS for the # 2 spot. TDOE is my #1 and will probably never be topped.
I'm happy. Spent most of the last 5 hrs listening to the stream.
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Along For the Ride definitely sounds better in context.
My only gripe with the entire album is still JR's moog solo in that song coming in a 16th late.
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This triggered snare is awful. At least it's not I&W bad, but it's really bad sounding.
I defy anyone to come up with ONE quote that proves that the snare is triggered. It's not.
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I love it. Can't wait to here the CD. FAS and STR still have a little growing to do on me but the rest has everything that I love about DT. IT will quickly move into my Top 5 and may or may not challenge ACOS for the # 2 spot. TDOE is my #1 and will probably never be topped.
I'm happy. Spent most of the last 5 hrs listening to the stream.
Wait, just so we're clear..."The Dance Of Eternity" is your top DT song?
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Man, the easter egg is great... can't believe they will throw it away, it deserves a full song at least :facepalm:
They didn't throw anything away. The easter egg ends the last song, and it's gonna be on this recording forever.
Nah, the song ends at 19:15 more or less.
The easter egg ends the album, and can begin a new one ::)
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I love it. Can't wait to here the CD. FAS and STR still have a little growing to do on me but the rest has everything that I love about DT. IT will quickly move into my Top 5 and may or may not challenge ACOS for the # 2 spot. TDOE is my #1 and will probably never be topped.
I'm happy. Spent most of the last 5 hrs listening to the stream.
Wait, just so we're clear..."The Dance Of Eternity" is your top DT song?
Just so we're clear, your top album is Dream Theater? :biggrin:
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Still reeling from my one spin, anxious to gtfo of work and head home. It's hovering in the top 4 area for me along with I&W, SDOIT, and SFAM. That's a hell of a statement for one spin.
MOVE FASTER CLOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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At 3:30 on Illumination Theory how does Mangini play toms and snare at the same time? Maybe they are not toms but something else. And maybe it is not as amazing as it sounds to non drummer. But he is mixing in a few tom hits with what I would guess to be a two handed snare roll? I don't know. Someone explain.
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*snip*
Is that you, Thiago?
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James sounds amazing here, and oh shit, big surprise, it only lasts like 30 seconds, then its back to more disjointed nonsense. This song makes no sense, whatsoever.
This i agree, great moments here but they don't last much.
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*spittake* Peruvian Skies mediocre?? :omg:
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Man, the easter egg is great... can't believe they will throw it away, it deserves a full song at least :facepalm:
They didn't throw anything away. The easter egg ends the last song, and it's gonna be on this recording forever.
Nah, the song ends at 19:15 more or less.
The easter egg ends the album, and can begin a new one ::)
I'm pretty sure the band said they were done doing that.
*snip*
I actually really rather like that orchestral section - it's one of the handful of things I like about the album. What really would've been cool is if they had devoted one entire track to something more of that bent. It could've had JP playing classical guitar, JR on the piano, JM on upright or something, and they could just play an orchestral piece. Now that would've been groundbreaking for them.
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I've listen to it twice during the day, on ear buds. Came back home, my wife is gone with our oldest one for 2 days, and I'm with our younger one, she's 17 and like pretty much all I'm listening to.
I hooked my laptop on our best sound system, and gave it a go.
Well she likes it as much as I do, she found that it was a little bit on the "smooth" side for her :yarr
It is not the CD and the sound was really big the way I did set it. the one she likes the most ? IT" The one she doesn't get is EM (she said there is no words, no singing :rollin
I won't rank the songs and the album amognts the others. But we both enjoyed it, and this will be most probaly at top 5.
A lot has been said saying that most of the songs are a "collage", give them some more try, may be you'll get it.
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Wasn't Enigma Machine supposed to have a bass solo?
I was wondering that too. The song itself was still very epic, 10/10, but I was like "Where is my bass solo?" :P
There are actually 2 very small bass solos in the song, one at 3:03, that other at 3:33
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*snip*
Is that you, Thiago?
Not Thiago. But based on his past forum history, and the tone of that post, his posting status and Thiago's are now the same. Insulting the band and their fans in a post is never acceptable here, and making the post long and detailed to try to disguise the blatant insults does not somehow make it better.
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I actually really rather like that orchestral section - it's one of the handful of things I like about the album. What really would've been cool is if they had devoted one entire track to something more of that bent. It could've had JP playing classical guitar, JR on the piano, JM on upright or something, and they could just play an orchestral piece. Now that would've been groundbreaking for them.
If only...
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The Easter Egg reminds me of Lost Keys by Tool.
It also reminds me of an idea I had to finish my album. Intervals and all. Plus only a semitone out :P
https://davidoakes.bandcamp.com/track/over-out
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Wasn't Enigma Machine supposed to have a bass solo?
I was wondering that too. The song itself was still very epic, 10/10, but I was like "Where is my bass solo?" :P
There are actually 2 very small bass solos in the song, one at 3:03, that other at 3:33
O rly :lol
For me, bass solo is like the one in TDOE :tup
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After a few listens back at home I suddenly realized that this is actually a concept album. The theme is "Comprehensive and irrefutable kickassery".
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After a few listens back at home I suddenly realized that this is actually a concept album. The theme is "Comprehensive and irrefutable kickassery".
:lol
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Here's a comment that actually applies to the last two albums: Has anyone noticed that there aren't really any "polymeters" or whatever you might call them, anymore? What I mean is, the drums will play some 5/8 while the others play a 3/4 or something. Ib always loved that about DT's music, but it seems it got kinda lost with MP's departure.
In general actually I would say that DT's music has gotten rhythmically simpler since the split.
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By the way, does anyone agree with me that JLB sounds better on this album than he's sounded in decades?
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That may be true - and I have no way of detecting polyrhythms - but is it such a bad thing if there are less of them?
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Yes!!!!
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Oh, hands down yes. He sounds a lot like his solo records, in which he usually sounded a ton better than on DT records.
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By the way, does anyone agree with me that JLB sounds better on this album than he's sounded in decades?
It's definitely the best he's sounded since 6DoIT. :metal
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By the way, does anyone agree with me that JLB sounds better on this album than he's sounded in decades?
He sounds damn good on his last two solo albums too.
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Here's a comment that actually applies to the last two albums: Has anyone noticed that there aren't really any "polymeters" or whatever you might call them, anymore? What I mean is, the drums will play some 5/8 while the others play a 3/4 or something. Ib always loved that about DT's music, but it seems it got kinda lost with MP's departure.
In general actually I would say that DT's music has gotten rhythmically simpler since the split.
I disagree. I think ADToE had more complex rhythmic moments than their previous; LNF and Outcry come to mind.
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That may be true - and I have no way of detecting polyrhythms - but is it such a bad thing if there are less of them?
Well, if you happen to be somebody who specifically loved that in their music, then yes :lol
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By the way, the instruments cleaned up nicely once I put on a good set of headphones. It's still my only complaint about this album so far. But at least now I can hear the bass.
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I'm dying to read The Bigger Picture's lyrics.
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Controversy time. I feel like this is the poppiest album since Octavarium, and although it has its moments, some of the songs just feel so generic and un-DT style, I might as well listen to Linkin Park. I feel like a lot of the songs seem almost cut short for the sake of being shorter... And Enigma Machine is alright, but I had such high hopes that I'm truly disappointed...
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Controversy time. I feel like this is the poppiest album since Octavarium, and although it has its moments, some of the songs just feel so generic and un-DT style, I might as well listen to Linkin Park. I feel like a lot of the songs seem almost cut short for the sake of being shorter... And Enigma Machine is alright, but I had such high hopes that I'm truly disappointed...
How does this sound in any way like Linkin Park? Or poppy, for that matter? If anything, it's closer to Symphony X and Royal Hunt's end of the spectrum.
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Controversy time. I feel like this is the poppiest album since Octavarium, and although it has its moments, some of the songs just feel so generic and un-DT style, I might as well listen to Linkin Park. I feel like a lot of the songs seem almost cut short for the sake of being shorter... And Enigma Machine is alright, but I had such high hopes that I'm truly disappointed...
I consider Devin Townsend's Addicted to be a pretty poppy style heavy album. DT12 is nothing like that. There really is not much pop going on. Along for the Ride is the poppiest song on the album. The album is pretty proggy.
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The Easter Egg reminds me of Lost Keys by Tool.
It also reminds me of an idea I had to finish my album. Intervals and all. Plus only a semitone out :P
https://davidoakes.bandcamp.com/track/over-out
Actually I think Orcus hit the nail on the head with Mellon collie. It sounds very similar.
I'm on my third full spin of this album. To put it into perspective it took me almost a month to listen to all of ADTOE, and I've spun it maybe less than 5 times.
This album is so good.
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Does anyone know how long the stream will be up?,
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Does anyone know how long the stream will be up?,
A week.
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Ok - new poll -
Who is the MVP / Man Of The Match on DT 12?
1.) John Petrucci
2.) John Myung
3.) James Labrie
4.) Jordan Rudess
5.) Mike Mangini
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I for one think there are a lit of prog-pop moments, but find the ones on DT of much better taste than BTS, I Walk Beside You, The Answer Lies Within or Wither.
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Controversy time. I feel like this is the poppiest album since Octavarium, and although it has its moments, some of the songs just feel so generic and un-DT style, I might as well listen to Linkin Park. I feel like a lot of the songs seem almost cut short for the sake of being shorter... And Enigma Machine is alright, but I had such high hopes that I'm truly disappointed...
How does this sound in any way like Linkin Park? If anything, it's closer to Symphony X and Royal Hunt's end of the spectrum.
Agreed. I agree there is a side of this album that friendly, but I hesitate to use the word poppy. I think this is more cinematic. I could see this driving a silent movie, telling one big story. There's a difference to me between the friendly sound of a song like The Bigger Picture and the sound of I Walk Beside You or The Answer Lies Within.
I think the only "poppy" song on this disc is Along for the Ride. Coincidentally (or perhaps not) I think that's the weakest song.
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The entire week.
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I think the Easter Egg is my favorite. I'd love to have DT just let lose and do an album of melodic improv stuff.
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I think LaBrie sounds so strained on this record.
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Just got finished listening. I really like the album on the whole.
Unfortunately, I'm just not feeling it on a lot of JP's lyrics. Can we just hire Neil Peart to write all DT lyrics in the future?
I sometimes crave an all-instrumental DT album, but then I remember that I would really miss JLB's presence.
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That may be true - and I have no way of detecting polyrhythms - but is it such a bad thing if there are less of them?
Well, if you happen to be somebody who specifically loved that in their music, then yes :lol
If you want polyrhythms and are missing them here, go listen to the latest Karnivool, and you'll be satiated...
I'll probably listen to the stream of this tomorrow morning.
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I for one think there are a lit of prog-pop moments, but find the ones on DT of much better taste than BTS, I Walk Beside You, The Answer Lies Within or Wither.
No way, TALW is great. And I would never stretch to say any of the tracks on this album are poppy - 6:00 sure, NM and YNM sure, Take the Time *maybe* and IWBY arguably, but definitely not these. And if you want actual prog-pop, certainly not Dream Theater: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=20961.0
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By the way, does anyone agree with me that JLB sounds better on this album than he's sounded in decades?
It's definitely the best he's sounded since 6DoIT. :metal
Yup. They're writing him better vocal tracks again...instead of trying to hide his voice.
Ultimately, JLB sounds best when he's trying to be JLB--and not some heavy metal singer. Snarly JLB just doesn't work for me. It takes some getting used to if you've never heard DT before, but JLB's vocal range needs to be unleashed and utilized.
Although on Beyond the Veil, they go back to snarly JLB, and it kind of ruins that part of the song. But the vocal tracks on the last two songs of the album are fantastic.
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Just finished and I loved the hell out of it.
Fuck yes dude, fuck yes. :metal
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I'm sorry to say this, but I didn't like it, and I have listened to it 6 times. I feel that this has the worst songwriting they have ever made.
Ideas are thrown away randomly and they are not properly developed. Choruses are really weak, and that could be said for all vocal melodies, except for Illumination Theory. Sound is horrible, a lot of clipping in some specific moments like the first riff on Illumination Theory. Even Petrucci's solos are uninspired and pretty forgettable.
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I think the Easter Egg is my favorite. I'd love to have DT just let lose and do an album of melodic improv stuff.
I'm late to this. What's the easter egg? The section at the very end?
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Yes.
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YEah the JR / JP section.
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I'm curious how they will incorporate the Easter Egg into live performances. I really hope it doesn't just get skipped, it's incredible. I think that in the Evening With format, Illumination Theory would work well as a first set closer, with a tape of the Easter Egg played as the concert goes to intermission.
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I'm curious how they will incorporate the Easter Egg into live performances. I really hope it doesn't just get skipped, it's incredible. I think that in the Evening With format, Illumination Theory would work well as a first set closer, with a tape of the Easter Egg played as the concert goes to intermission.
Something I could see happening is they end IT without the easter egg as the main set closer, and for the encore, they play the easter egg followed by maybe ITNOG. It would KILL as an encore that way.
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My God I totally had a moment listening to this. Holy hell I love this album! Kinda takes me back to the ol' 90s Dream Theater. Good. Very good. I need to go change my underpants now...
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Well, I've just finished my initial listen on a very good headphone/amp setup and I have to say I'm completely blown away. This is the album I've been waiting for...from any band. I knew they had this sound in them, but could only hope they would pull it out. It's melancholic, cinematic, dreamy, yet crunchy and progressive...exactly what I was hoping for when I first laid eyes on the album cover. They did it! They blew away all my expectations. I MUST SEE THEM ON THIS TOUR!!!
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On my 2nd listen and I'm liking it even more than the first time! I've come to grips with the mix and it no longer bothers me. Which is great because the music itself is incredible.
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So some quick thoughts on the album, keeping in mind this is just after one listen:
-The two singles are still just "meh" songs.
-False Awakening Suite shouldn't be called a suite if its only 3 minutes, and its just okay.
-The beginning and end of "Enigma Machine" sounds a lot like "Mountain" by Devin Townsend. I liked the song though so I don't mind too much.
-The Looking Glass sounds a lot like a band inspired by WDADU/early 90s Dream Theater and it doesn't quite translate.
-Songs like Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason, and parts of Illumination Theory sound like post-Brave New World Iron Maiden, especially in the verses. Think of songs like "Paschendale" or "For the Greater Good of God." This isn't bad, per se, its just something that sounded familiar and it hit me later on.
-That being said Surrender to Reason is one of the most intriguing songs on the album and shows a lot of promise for repeat listens.
-Illumination Theory is probably my favorite song on the album. I was actually getting pretty into it while the rest of the album kinda held me at arm's length for some reason. After that its probably Enigma Machine and then I'll need more listens to fully digest the rest.
Overall? Its an okay album. They've written much worse material, but they've also written a lot of much better material. I admit it will probably need more listens, but after I was blown away by ADTOE (and still enjoy it! Which I can't say about SC or BC&SL nowadays) this is a disappointing album. There's not much here that really excites me. I'd place it just above my bottom three of SC, WDADU, and ToT. Maybe above BC&SL too, not sure yet.
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I'm getting the impression that this album is gonna sound like Circus Maximus - NINE (less wanking and more accessibility)
I was right.
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Thoughts after just one listen.
Things I like:
- They're back to experimenting again and taking chances. This is overwhelmingly a good thing. They got stuck in a sonic rut a few albums ago, and each new album sounded progressively more like the last one. The middle section of IT is absolutely fantastic and fresh. Sounds nothing like anything else they've ever done. Love it.
- I really adore the "encore" ending of IT. This is a really good sound for them. It's sad that it's limited to just one riff. I wish they would have developed an entire song out of this. It sounds very moody...almost along the lines of Radiohead. But DT could take that sound to new heights if they wanted.
- AFTR is the best song they have written since Awake. Not just best ballad...best song. The only problem is that it's not long enough. They could have really written another part to it and still kept it to like 7 minutes.
- For a thrashy song TEI is pretty good. Perfect mix of heavy and proggy parts, and JLB's vocal track is a better fit for his voice. JLB in the upper register still sounds good with heavier songs. No more snarling!!
- I like that they're giving JM more prominent parts. One of my favorite parts of the last half of Awake was that you could hear JM so much. He's really a great part of the band, and they should feature him more.
Things of which I am still skeptical (albeit after only one listen):
- I think it's great that they're writing songs like TLG that are based primarily on a major key riff again, but this one sounds too much like Rush. Let's hear another song in a major key that sounds like Dream Theater.
- EM just kind of wanders aimlessly. All great instrumentals have some sort of musical theme to tie them together. Orion, Call of Ktulu, Stream of Consciousness, Erotomania, Ytse Jam, Jessica (that's all I can think of off the top of my head) all have very strong melodic riffs that give them a sense of structure and make up for the lack of vocals. This one just sounds like band practice.
- Not impressed with TBP, but I think it's a song that could grow on me with time. It has a good feel at some parts, but it doesn't have any good riffs or hooks that I can latch on to. Reminds me too much of SFAM.
- BTV started out great, but then the vocal track they wrote in killed it.
Overall, I don't think this is going to come close to I&W and Awake, but it's at least middle of the pack for me. But that's only after one listen. It could get better.
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Just finished listening, and I enjoyed it. One one hand it feels like they largely played it safe again, but just did their usual thing *better* in a lot of ways. On the other hand, some things do stand out as attempts at mixing up the formula ever so slightly. Obviously quality musicianship throughout and seems like there is a lot to digest, but I'm still irrationally hopeful that DT will put out something radically different before they retire.
Couple of first impressions:
-On first listen, I think you guys really undersold Behind the Veil and over-hyped The Bigger Picture.
-There was nothing I disliked outright.
-Bass is more audible than ever and there were some cool rhythm section only moments.
-Illumination Theory as a whole did not floor me like I expected, but may have just been too much to take in. Also I was interrupted multiple times while listening to it. Additionally, the final drum fill is straight from at least 2 other Portnoy-era DT songs, and (as mentioned previously) the similarity of the main theme to the beginning of Tchaikovsky's piano concerto is...uncanny.
-The "easter egg" is incredible and the best piece of music on the entire album.
-J
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The middle string part and the end of Illumination Theory are some of the most beautiful and touching moments in DT history. I nearly got choked up blasting this thing on my stereo. Everything including the lyrics brought this piece to what I believe is an unprecedented moment in DT's career.
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This triggered snare is awful. At least it's not I&W bad, but it's really bad sounding.
I defy anyone to come up with ONE quote that proves that the snare is triggered. It's not.
Okay, even if it isn't it sounds terrible IMO.
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Okay, guys. I've listened it a couple of times and so far I think it is the worst DT album by far. Uninspiring, without salt, goes nowhere, unmemorable.
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-The "easter egg" is incredible and the best piece of music on the entire album.
So disappointed that they will not develop it into a song :'(
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My overall opinion: the only "great" tracks are Surrender to Reason and Illumination Theory. Still, they're pretty high highs. But overall I'm sorta disappointed. :-\
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Okay so.... since The Count of Tuscany is technically actually longer than Illumination Theory, can we all please start officially referring to it as an epic?
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opinion: IT is on a whole other level than the rest of the album. the other songs are still pretty good but don't reach the highs that IT has
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Actually, Enigma Machine is pretty good too, forgot that.
Overall, this reminds me of Octavarium. A couple really amazing tracks, with a bunch of tracks I'm going to end up forgetting even exist.
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I will use the album today as a soundtrack to sleep.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one a bit let down. It's not bad by any means, but it feels like they didn't even try anything new (sans the strings in IT, which are probably the highlight of the album) and it's all been done before (and done better...). That being said, there are some great melodies.
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I will use the album today as a soundtrack to sleep.
That's pretty neat, and not really necessary to post you think? You already posted what you thought above, now you're just kind of insulting the band's work :/
At least the others are just being critical in a good manner.
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-The "easter egg" is incredible and the best piece of music on the entire album.
So disappointed that they will not develop it into a song :'(
Agreed. Now I hope the "begin the next album where the last one left off" theme starts up again. That really needs to be its own song with like three different parts.
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Bleh, my ears hurt.
Not because the album was bad, per se, but because I've been blasting it in my earphones all day. 10/10 album.
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I'm wrapping up Steven Wilson's The Raven... and I'm so tempted to pop it on for like the 4th or 5th time
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The middle string part and the end of Illumination Theory are some of the most beautiful and touching moments in DT history. I nearly got choked up blasting this thing on my stereo. Everything including the lyrics brought this piece to what I believe is an unprecedented moment in DT's career.
You may be right and considering all the epic, emotional, climactic moments in the DT catalog, that is a saying a LOT.
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I honestly wish they took the string part of IT and made it its own track. It might very well be DT's best song. But it completely doesn't fit with all the rest of IT and I feel they just anted to squeeze it in to make it more of of an epic. It really does make me sad that they didn't go a different direction with that theme, it had sooo much potential.
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Maybe it's just the vocal minority, but there are a lot more folks bagging on the album then I would expect, but I guess I should have seen that coming. Funny, on Prog Archives the album is split with tons of 5 star and 1 star ratings and few in between. Every release starts with the hardliners before folks settle down and digest it.
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-The "easter egg" is incredible and the best piece of music on the entire album.
So disappointed that they will not develop it into a song :'(
Agreed. Now I hope the "begin the next album where the last one left off" theme starts up again. That really needs to be its own song with like three different parts.
Finally, i was feeling like "I am the only one seeing the greatness of this?"
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I will use the album today as a soundtrack to sleep.
That's pretty neat, and not really necessary to post you think? You already posted what you thought above, now you're just kind of insulting the band's work :/
At least the others are just being critical in a good manner.
Why neat? It can be interpreted as good or bad. I don't think saying that insults the band's work. And why should you or anyone be offended by it? It is my opinion. Does me saying it makes you enjoy the album less? No. So what's the problem? Criticizing should be as normal as doing compliments. When someone says the album is good, nobody says anything.. because it is "normal". I know that all the people who liked the album want to read that the others did too, so they can share their feeling, but.. I am sorry, I didn't like the album, so I am criticizing. I totally respect everyone who liked it.
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My quick impressions:
- Fantastic playing by Petrucci as always. He remains one of the most tasteful of the "shredders".
- The drum sound/tone (?) is kinda weird. I'm no drummer, so I'm not really able to address what sounds off.
- The drumming itself is great.
- Overall production is alright, but not great.
- Hidden track at the end is great. I wish it had been given it's own place as the basis for a longer instrumental instead of just an easter egg.
- Enigma Machine made me think of Mission Impossible. I saw someone else mention that as well.
I think that overall I will end up liking this one better than ADTOE, but the high point of that album for me (BITS) is not matched by any one song on this one.
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I will use the album today as a soundtrack to sleep.
That's pretty neat, and not really necessary to post you think? You already posted what you thought above, now you're just kind of insulting the band's work :/
At least the others are just being critical in a good manner.
Why neat? It can be interpreted as good or bad. I don't think saying that insults the band's work. And why should you or anyone be offended by it? It is my opinion. Does me saying it makes you enjoy the album less? No. So what's the problem? Criticizing should be as normal as doing compliments. When someone says the album is good, nobody says anything.. because it is "normal". I know that all the people who liked the album want to read that the others did too, so they can share their feeling, but.. I am sorry, I didn't like the album, so I am criticizing. I totally respect everyone who liked it.
That was me being sarcastic.
To summarize why I think it's insulting is, you already put your crits up of the album, but why do you need to start going to "Yeahhh, This will be the album to listen to to knock me out" kind of stuff? It just comes off as insulting, mainly to the band, who are obviously, and should be proud of the album. It's okay to post criticisms like you did with your earlier post, even as harsh it was, but you don't need to knock the album outright.
Your criticisms don't make me enjoy the album any less, as there's no reason it would, I just don't think your post there was really necessary at all.
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-The "easter egg" is incredible and the best piece of music on the entire album.
So disappointed that they will not develop it into a song :'(
Agreed. Now I hope the "begin the next album where the last one left off" theme starts up again. That really needs to be its own song with like three different parts.
Finally, i was feeling like "I am the only one seeing the greatness of this?"
Yes, yes, and yes. So sad.
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Hmm still digesting it, but so far I think it's a middle of the pack album (which means it's very good).
Couple of things though....
I'm no musician or audiophile, and I'm not sure if it's the songwriting or the production (or a bit of both), but I feel like I get a little audio fatigue listening to it all the way through. To me it seems that the songs don't "breathe" as well as they do on other albums, such as SFAM or SDOIT (imo, of course.)
Also, this is the second straight album where I wish they would have been more ambitious with the vocal melodies. A lot of the time the vocal melodies seem very safe or less than innovative, and I would have liked to see them kind go for it more....you're gonna strike out sometimes, but it's worth it if you hit a few home runs..
That being said, I don't feel there are any very weak songs or insta-skips, which is great. So far my favorites are TEI, TBP, BTV, and IT (I only listened to TEI once before today). Hopefully it's a real grower and I'll enjoy it more as I discover its nuances. But, for now I see it projecting as a FII/ADTOE/8VM mid-tier album.
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I will use the album today as a soundtrack to sleep.
Alone, Rhayader?
Nuggetz
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The False Awakening Suite seems rather mundane and boring to me. I cannot remember one melody from it. I don't listen to Symphony X, so I can't comment on the similarities of that song to any of theirs, but the song seems like too much "dun dun dun" and far too little melody. That is my early impression.
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After 3 listens today, here are my preliminary impressions.
Things I liked:
-Love the cinematic and "big" presence throughout the album. It could be described as a wall-of-sound, but not quite like a Devin Townsend album, more just in the presentation of the music.
-Myung can be heard, and not just heard, but he has some MONSTER moments. Lots of cool, but small, solo's and grooves. I wish the mix was a little more balanced on the whole instead of just pulling the bass up at times when the song suited it, but this is a huge step in the right direction.
-Despite it being so cinematic, the album manages to be fairly diverse and balanced. Lots of different threads from soft to heavy and everything in between. Influences from Rush to Megadeth and Steven Wilson are worn on their sleeves and there's nothing wrong with that.
Things I didn't like:
-The album continues the trend of the banal and overly literal lyrical phrasing from the last decade plus. I should be accustomed to this by now, but it's still off-putting and the only thing that keeps this from being a true masterpiece.
-Too much compression, as much as I love the music, my ears are soooo tired after listening. I need time to rest instead of just jumping back in on repeat.
Still too early to do a full track ranking, need another 5-10 spins before doing that, but IT and STR are sticking out near the top of the pack.
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Maybe it's just the vocal minority, but there are a lot more folks bagging on the album then I would expect, but I guess I should have seen that coming. Funny, on Prog Archives the album is split with tons of 5 star and 1 star ratings and few in between. Every release starts with the hardliners before folks settle down and digest it.
Yeah, I've seen that trend over the years too. A lot of people will rate it incredibly high, but then end up revising it to a lower rating when they digested it more.
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Maybe it's just the vocal minority, but there are a lot more folks bagging on the album then I would expect, but I guess I should have seen that coming. Funny, on Prog Archives the album is split with tons of 5 star and 1 star ratings and few in between. Every release starts with the hardliners before folks settle down and digest it.
With every release you'll have a very large vocal fanbase proclaiming it to be the best DT album. Lets face it, DT fans often have a very intense honeymoon period with any new music the band releases. You'll also have a very large vocal fanbase that dislikes everything after 6DoiT, or a smaller vocal fanbase who are ravenous MP fanboys. Then you'll have a small amount of people in the middle. This is my fourth new DT release as a member of the boards and the exact same trend is taking place now.
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Maybe it's just the vocal minority, but there are a lot more folks bagging on the album then I would expect, but I guess I should have seen that coming. Funny, on Prog Archives the album is split with tons of 5 star and 1 star ratings and few in between. Every release starts with the hardliners before folks settle down and digest it.
Yeah, I've seen that trend over the years too. A lot of people will rate it incredibly high, but then end up revising it to a lower rating when they digested it more.
Most current votes are from people that didn't even listened to the album yet.
i think
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Yeah. progarchives has a very large DT hating base that votes everything 1 star without hearing.
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That would be funny if it weren't so sad.
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Thats because most people on progarchives are fans of Classic Prog Rock and they seem to love hating on every band that isn't Yes,Gensis,King Crimson,etc.
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I've heard the album in its entirety once and I really enjoyed it.
Is it just me or is there somewhat of an Awake vibe in this album?
Definitely a refreshing sound overall and I cannot wait to blast it in the car stereo. :metal
Standout tracks SO FAR include TEI and IT. IT was not what I expected and that beautiful orchestral section in the middle was just...wow.
This album may make it into my top 3 but we'll have to wait until further listens.
Cannot WAIT to hear these songs live. North American tour dates, please! :biggrin:
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Okay guys, I'm halfway through my first listen of the album, and I can now say that it is the worst DT album ever recorded, by far.
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Okay guys, I'm halfway through my first listen of the album, and I can now say that it is the worst DT album ever recorded, by far.
The range of reactions to this album is now complete. And hilarious. If there was ever a reason for me to revive my blog, it would be to highlight how this album has run the gamut from undying devotion to hatred burning with the heat of a thousand suns.
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I was very concerned about the "ambient noise" section in IT leading up to it, but on first listen I enjoy it a lot more than I would have thought. I don't anticipate skipping over it in the future when I listen to it like I generally do in the softer section of TCOT.
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Bleh, my ears hurt.
Not because the album was bad, per se, but because I've been blasting it in my earphones all day. 10/10 album.
Haha this exactly!
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I've heard the album in its entirety once and I really enjoyed it.
Is it just me or is there somewhat of an Awake vibe in this album?
Definitely a refreshing sound overall and I cannot wait to blast it in the car stereo. :metal
Standout tracks SO FAR include TEI and IT. IT was not what I expected and that beautiful orchestral section in the middle was just...wow.
This album may make it into my top 3 but we'll have to wait until further listens.
Cannot WAIT to hear these songs live. North American tour dates, please! :biggrin:
I wish Dream Theater would do another track like Scarred or Voices. Something very somber. I don't really know how to describe them.
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I was very concerned about the "ambient noise" section in IT leading up to it, but on first listen I enjoy it a lot more than I would have thought. I don't anticipate skipping over it in the future when I listen to it like I generally do in the softer section of TCOT.
It fits perfectly. It's divide between two completely different sounding sections, that preps you for the strings. Taking it out would have been a terrible musical decision.
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I was very concerned about the "ambient noise" section in IT leading up to it, but on first listen I enjoy it a lot more than I would have thought. I don't anticipate skipping over it in the future when I listen to it like I generally do in the softer section of TCOT.
It fits perfectly. It's divide between two completely different sounding sections, that preps you for the strings. Taking it out would have been a terrible musical decision.
I agree it fits very well, but the transitions could have used a little bit more work. That's been a nagging issue with a lot of DT songs, they struggle with transitions in general imho, but the song still flows well and this section doesn't feel out of place in the slightest.
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I've heard the album in its entirety once and I really enjoyed it.
Is it just me or is there somewhat of an Awake vibe in this album?
Definitely a refreshing sound overall and I cannot wait to blast it in the car stereo. :metal
Standout tracks SO FAR include TEI and IT. IT was not what I expected and that beautiful orchestral section in the middle was just...wow.
This album may make it into my top 3 but we'll have to wait until further listens.
Cannot WAIT to hear these songs live. North American tour dates, please! :biggrin:
I wish Dream Theater would do another track like Scarred or Voices. Something very somber. I don't really know how to describe them.
Those songs are so original and unique, it would be hard to recreate them.
And so much of what makes those songs great is James' raspy vocals.
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Great album. Tried to listen today at work, but too many distractions. Finally got the headphones in and this music resonates with me.
Anyone else reminded of TSO in FSA?
I can't wait for the North American tour dates.
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Thoughts after just one listen.
Things I like:
- They're back to experimenting again and taking chances. This is overwhelmingly a good thing. They got stuck in a sonic rut a few albums ago, and each new album sounded progressively more like the last one. The middle section of IT is absolutely fantastic and fresh. Sounds nothing like anything else they've ever done. Love it.
- I really adore the "encore" ending of IT. This is a really good sound for them. It's sad that it's limited to just one riff. I wish they would have developed an entire song out of this. It sounds very moody...almost along the lines of Radiohead. But DT could take that sound to new heights if they wanted.
- AFTR is the best song they have written since Awake. Not just best ballad...best song. The only problem is that it's not long enough. They could have really written another part to it and still kept it to like 7 minutes.
- For a thrashy song TEI is pretty good. Perfect mix of heavy and proggy parts, and JLB's vocal track is a better fit for his voice. JLB in the upper register still sounds good with heavier songs. No more snarling!!
- I like that they're giving JM more prominent parts. One of my favorite parts of the last half of Awake was that you could hear JM so much. He's really a great part of the band, and they should feature him more.
Things of which I am still skeptical (albeit after only one listen):
- I think it's great that they're writing songs like TLG that are based primarily on a major key riff again, but this one sounds too much like Rush. Let's hear another song in a major key that sounds like Dream Theater.
- EM just kind of wanders aimlessly. All great instrumentals have some sort of musical theme to tie them together. Orion, Call of Ktulu, Stream of Consciousness, Erotomania, Ytse Jam, Jessica (that's all I can think of off the top of my head) all have very strong melodic riffs that give them a sense of structure and make up for the lack of vocals. This one just sounds like band practice.
- Not impressed with TBP, but I think it's a song that could grow on me with time. It has a good feel at some parts, but it doesn't have any good riffs or hooks that I can latch on to. Reminds me too much of SFAM.
- BTV started out great, but then the vocal track they wrote in killed it.
Overall, I don't think this is going to come close to I&W and Awake, but it's at least middle of the pack for me. But that's only after one listen. It could get better.
Some additional thoughts after a second listen:
- TLG has grown on me a lot after only one additional listen
- BTV starts out really good, and ends really good. Despite me complaining on here about DT's recent over-reliance on heavy songs, I like an occasional thrasher (I still listen to Megadeth and Pantera occasionally). But this song is really ruined by the vocal track. The distorted growly voice on the first verse is terrible, and the rest just kind of drones on and has little melodic appeal.
- What's missing in TBP and STR are musical themes/hooks. These songs are straight out of the SFAM era, where a song just kind of meanders on with some pretty good progressive jams here and there, but no theme/hook development. The result is a forgettable song that sounds like progressive muck. TTT, Metropolis Pt. 1, LTL, Erotomania/Voices/TSM were longer and heavily progressive epics, but they had a lot of repeated musical themes that were developed and built off of. I think the best music made is generally based off a repeating theme that gets built up and developed, but slowly changing each time you hear it. Like Beethoven's Fifth, Close to the Edge, a lot of Pink Floyd, etc. Pull Me Under is DT's most popular song...and this is why. That main riff is developed throughout. It's also why AFTR is so good...same melody, just built up stronger and stronger and with a different feel each time. You can write a song that has a hook and is repetitve, and progressive, but still not poppy-sounding. Erotomania is proof of that...it's in a chromatic scale and in odd time, but it's still incredibly catchy. Close to the Edge is similar in some ways.
- Still can't get over how good the middle section to IT is. It's too early to say, but this song could pretty easily become my favorite DT epic (it's currently 6DOIT). Such a wide array of sounds and sonic diversity, yet it never gets cliche like parts of their other epics.
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FAS made me think bigtime of TSO, Symphony X, and Final Fantasy.
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I've heard the album in its entirety once and I really enjoyed it.
Is it just me or is there somewhat of an Awake vibe in this album?
Definitely a refreshing sound overall and I cannot wait to blast it in the car stereo. :metal
Standout tracks SO FAR include TEI and IT. IT was not what I expected and that beautiful orchestral section in the middle was just...wow.
This album may make it into my top 3 but we'll have to wait until further listens.
Cannot WAIT to hear these songs live. North American tour dates, please! :biggrin:
I wish Dream Theater would do another track like Scarred or Voices. Something very somber. I don't really know how to describe them.
Those songs are so original and unique, it would be hard to recreate them.
And so much of what makes those songs great is James' raspy vocals.
No, it's not one particular feature or style that makes the earlier material unique. Actually, I've been pondering this a lot the last month or so (not in connection with DT specifically, but what I like about certain music generally), and this video best explains the conclusion I've come to (I know it's about videogames mainly, but bear with me): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKgHrz_Wv6o
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Listening to the album again, and I am thinking (wishing) at the same time that there will be another HDTracks type release that isn't brickwalled to fuck. The compression is only one of a couple of sonic problems I have with the album, but it is by far the worst of them. I really do hope that there will be a less compressed master released down the road...
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I wish Dream Theater would do another track like Scarred or Voices. Something very somber. I don't really know how to describe them.
Count me in on this.
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Thats because most people on progarchives are fans of Classic Prog Rock and they seem to love hating on every band that isn't Yes,Gensis,King Crimson,etc.
Not really. Most have them are pretty open to new prog. Just not DT. :P
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Just finished my second listen through on the headphones and I'm so completely floored by this album. I had only hoped they had this album in them. I didn't actually think they would pull it off. Only problem is, now my expectations are so high that I don't see how they can surpass this album. But if this album is to prove anything, it's that I should never underestimate this amazing band.
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Listening to IT for the first time. The ambient section flowing to the string section was breathtaking, and then JLB kicked my ass.
*drools*
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I've heard the album in its entirety once and I really enjoyed it.
Is it just me or is there somewhat of an Awake vibe in this album?
Definitely a refreshing sound overall and I cannot wait to blast it in the car stereo. :metal
Standout tracks SO FAR include TEI and IT. IT was not what I expected and that beautiful orchestral section in the middle was just...wow.
This album may make it into my top 3 but we'll have to wait until further listens.
Cannot WAIT to hear these songs live. North American tour dates, please! :biggrin:
I wish Dream Theater would do another track like Scarred or Voices. Something very somber. I don't really know how to describe them.
Those songs are so original and unique, it would be hard to recreate them.
And so much of what makes those songs great is James' raspy vocals.
No, it's not one particular feature or style that makes the earlier material unique. Actually, I've been pondering this a lot the last month or so (not in connection with DT specifically, but what I like about certain music generally), and this video best explains the conclusion I've come to (I know it's about videogames mainly, but bear with me): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKgHrz_Wv6o
Cool channel.
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After 3 complete listens I can't say anything except :metal :hefdaddy
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Listening to IT for the first time. The ambient section flowing to the string section was breathtaking, and then JLB kicked my ass.
*drools*
Dude I jumped when JLB started singing. I haven't had that since A Change Of Season. Almost 20 goddamn years!
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Several listens and I get what DT was going for with this album. As someone who was turned on to DT from TOT onwards, I know that I lean towards their more recent works. That said, SFAM and parts of I&W as well as ACOS just blow my mind. Cinematic and dreamy is a great description and the band shows their prowess as musicians in so many places. Having said that, this album is the most disappointing release I have experienced in my time as a fan. The movie soundtrack feel of it and the wall of sound is exhausting. The poppy nature of it is also monotonous. JP's parts are the most memorable and that is obviously skewed by the fact I have been a guitarist for 27 years. This is not a concept album but there is a theme to it. That is where the problem lies with it for me. It seems to me that by sticking to that theme, everything is very mapped out, pieced together in an editing room, and a lot of songs never really take off because it is like they are trying very hard not to reveal the ending of a movie too early. Everything seems on an even keel and very consistent that it never evokes a range of emotion from me as a listener. It's like an okay movie with a few good moments, great cinematography, but a story that doesn't resonate with me enough to want to watch it again from start to finish. I rather hit fast forward to the best parts and skip the rest. As an analogy for me, it's like knowing Alyssa Milano is naked for 15 minutes in a meh movie and trying very hard not to hit the remote to get to those parts. ;D
I love TEI and BTV the most. TLG grows on me steadily. John Petrucci's tone and playing are fabulous throughout. What a beast. Seriously ridiculous in an amazing way. He stands out too much in fact that I feel the rest of the performances are a let down. JLB finds a sweet spot and never leaves it, unfortunately. JMX and MM are there but didn't deliver in ways I expected. Sure there are moments, but they seem to be overcome by the cinematic feel. JR becomes a Hans Zimmer for the album. I really do not enjoy the orchestral aspects of the album. It sounds very generic to me and doesn't make the parts soar like it should. Seems to be there because it should be and not because it needs to be. I feel that Bambi is prancing for too long when we should have started rocking out. So many parts of the album never sound like songs, but rather like musical movements trying to capture a very narrow emotion. Illumination Theory is the biggest disappointment of all (Enigma Machine is a close second). I think it is human to compare it with the other 'epics' and for me it really doesn't compare with any of them at all. TCOT (despite the lyrics), 8va, and ACOS define DT for me in ways that I-Theory never truly captures. Numerous listens isn't helping which is the opposite of what I am used to. Music that is fungal and grows on you over time is the best there is. Sadly the seeds are not being planted for that to happen this time around.
Despite my mostly negative reaction to this album, I really look forward to the tour and seeing the band blend this stuff into their set. Maybe contrasted with the band's earlier work, the songs may bring a new vibe for me. I love that the band sounds so invigorated and fresh on DT 12 even if most of it never resonates with me. They can't please everyone and they are still the best band on Earth IMO by a country mile. What they achieve musically year after year is awe inspiring.
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i just listened for the first time straight through with headphones. (is there really any other way?) it's definitely a lot of music to try and take in at once, but as usual, i found it to be incredible. the playing is soooo tight, the riffs are heavy, the time signatures and shifts are brilliant, and john's bass is NASTY sounding when exposed. i loved it, and can't wait to digest it fully. their range as a band continues to astound me. to combine prog, metal, pop, classical, and ambient elements so effortlessly is an artistic gift, and i'm thankful they continue to share it with all of us.
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I realized I've been a guest on these forums for too long, and there's no better time to change that!
So, my thoughts on the album:
FAS - Does its job. Sounds cool. Not much else.
Grade: B
TEI - I liked it when I first heard it as a single, and in the context of the whole album, I see why it's the single. At least to me, it sounds the most like "modern DT," whereas many other songs are now being coined "DT 2.0." It is also one of the more catchy songs, which is weird because of its heaviness.
Grade: A
TLG - I get why people like it, but I've never been a fan of vocal-driven songs. I guess that's why I like DT. The guitar solo section is indeed nice, though.
Grade: B-
EM - Didn't quite "get" this song on first listen, but now I'm hooked on it. The main riff sounds like what Lay Down Your Life by Transatlantic should have been, albeit a bit more complex. Oh, and I'll say it: the drum solo surpasses any solo or fill I've heard from Portnoy. I'm still a big fan of both Mikes.
Grade: A
TBP - Probably favorite chorus of the album. This is one of two songs, the other being STR, that are still blurry in my head. That will change quickly enough.
Grade: B+
BTV - If there's one part of this album that made me go :metal , it's the riff before the first verse of this song. Was upset that it didn't come back much. Definitely my favorite of the track 5-7 block. I call it that because of they do blend together mentally.
Grade: A-
STR - The ending, from Restless Angels on, is great. Not a big fan of Dream Theater's Rush side, although I am a fan of Rush. Weird how that works.
Grade: B
AFTR - Least favorite track of the album. I just feel that every other song has something that I can look at and say, "That was cool." Not this song.
Grade: D
IT - The best way to approach this song is to imagine that each section represents a different emotion. Yes, it's disjointed, but the fact that each section is so different is what makes them work together. Yes? No? Ok, I'll just say my favorite parts.
-The "Live, Die, Kill" riff. So groovy.
-The oft mentioned orchestra section.
-The high F from LaBrie
-The Easter Egg
Grade: A++ (For reference, I have 10-15 DT songs I would give this grade to. Also, less than a third of their songs fall in the C or D range)
Overall, this album ranks middle of the road for me, although my DT album rankings are excruciatingly weird. I see the love, and I see the criticisms. To me, there are some definite highs, and some lows, but neither highs nor lows are as extreme as I've seen from DT. Definitely a change from ADTOE, and although I prefer ADTOE to DT12, the change works.
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The "consider this question" section of "IT" is so catchy and has a great groove. Not very often we get to hear that from DT, IMO.
Am I right or am I right? :biggrin:
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-The "easter egg" is incredible and the best piece of music on the entire album.
So disappointed that they will not develop it into a song :'(
Agreed. Now I hope the "begin the next album where the last one left off" theme starts up again. That really needs to be its own song with like three different parts.
I had that same idea last night. I think it would be cool for the easter egg to develop into its own song for the next album. Maybe they could even develop it on tour as a jam? I don't know, just spit-balling here!
I honestly wish they took the string part of IT and made it its own track. It might very well be DT's best song. But it completely doesn't fit with all the rest of IT and I feel they just anted to squeeze it in to make it more of of an epic. It really does make me sad that they didn't go a different direction with that theme, it had sooo much potential.
I agree with that, although I wouldn't say it completely doesn't fit. It uses the same theme of the song in there, and it ties in to the intro using the same melody.
But I would listen to that orchestral section again and again on its own. It's absolutely stunning. Maybe if IT was a suite, with the middle song being just the orchestral break. That orchestral section is just so amazing, that I wish they'd take it further!
The "consider this question" section of "IT" is so catchy and has a great groove. Not very often we get to hear that from DT, IMO.
Am I right or am I right? :biggrin:
I would say you're right.
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The "consider this question" section of "IT" is so catchy and has a great groove. Not very often we get to hear that from DT, IMO.
Am I right or am I right? :biggrin:
I would say you're right.
:metal
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I think I'm going to save this now for friday when my copy arrives. No listens anymore!
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Anyone else notice the "Jet" taking off at the Finale or "first" ending of IT? It is right where Portnoy's gong ought to be, and you'll remember the theme of ADTOE was the DT jet taking off in a new direction...
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I must confess.... I am not a musical guru...or musical perfectionist like some of the folks here. I've just listened to this album for the first time.
My overwhelming impression, or first thought is.... This album, is different. I'm actually blown away and pleasantly surprised. Over the past 4 or so albums, there has been a sense of predictability...or at least a preconception of what the DT sound is. This album, is like listening to a completely new group. The melodies, structures, and flow of this album is completely different to anything in recent DT history.
Is this a Great... or even good album? I sure can't say after one listen. BUT..... I can say... Dream Theater has proven that they are still fresh, vibrant, and creative.
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You know what I just figured out? I know now why this is really going to split fans.
This album is "pretty". And *I* mean that in a very good way. And not everyone is into that. But I would go so far as to say that Dream Theater has really achieved something magical here. Because they've created something that is beautiful and....well....PRETTY....and they didn't have to dumb down the musicmanship in order to do it. And I would argue that that is not an easy thing to accomplish. Because everyone who tries to write something this beautiful usually comes up with a sappy poppy radio song. So to write something so pretty without dumbing it down is really amazing.
I'm really starting to feel that this album is *REALLY* a bigger accomplishment that even I can currently comprehend after only two listens.
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You know what I just figured out? I know now why this is really going to split fans.
This album is "pretty". And *I* mean that in a very good way. And not everyone is into that. But I would go so far as to say that Dream Theater has really achieved something magical here. Because they've created something that is beautiful and....well....PRETTY....and they didn't have to dumb down the musicmanship in order to do it. And I would argue that that is not an easy thing to accomplish. Because everyone who tries to write something this beautiful usually comes up with a sappy poppy radio song. So to write something so pretty without dumbing it down is really amazing.
I'm really starting to feel that this album is *REALLY* a bigger accomplishment that even I can currently comprehend after only two listens.
I agree with this, and I'd like to see them develop this sound further. If you ask me, the most beautiful parts of the album are under-developed. They come in flashes here and there, and then they're gone. But the flashes are some of their best work yet.
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Here's a comment that actually applies to the last two albums: Has anyone noticed that there aren't really any "polymeters" or whatever you might call them, anymore? What I mean is, the drums will play some 5/8 while the others play a 3/4 or something. Ib always loved that about DT's music, but it seems it got kinda lost with MP's departure.
In general actually I would say that DT's music has gotten rhythmically simpler since the split.
Yeah i noticed this as well and i actually asked about it in the impressions thread, it seems to me that while they do change rhythms a lot, MM keeps playing those rhythms in a 4/4 feel, mostly very straightforward.
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After hearing the two singles I wasn’t so excited about the album but after hearing the whole thing, I’m impressed.
Love the Rush vibe, lots of surprises and some excellent songwriting. Its not perfect, feel the instrumental doesn’t really do anything but it might be a grower.
Overall I can’t wait to own it and allow time to test exactly how good it is.
:tup
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First time poster... But been reading the board in anticipation for the album. Been a die hard fan since 99' and images and words is the album that hooked me.
Some pre album personal opinions for context , octavarium is by far the worst dream theater album and scenes by far the best. They have gone downhill since after six degrees but I still love to listen to them.
Ok on to the album.....
They killed it on this one. There is something for everyone to enjoy and when labrie decides to sing with his chest instead of his nose they actually legitimately recapture some serious magic that's been missing.
I'm not a fan of the enemy inside but I'm totally fine with it being on the album as it appeases the new era metal fans.
Illumination theory is laughably disjointed, however, all 20 minutes are fantastic!!!
This album is a grower... And that's the first time I can say that since train of thought which is super exciting.
Is it going to rank with the classics (everything before six degrees) maybe not quite, but it will probably bridge the gap between new era dt and old era dt and for a title album that sounds perfectly acceptable.
I'm excited for the future of dt
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I do find it amusing that anyone is commenting on IT being disjointed as though this is a new thing for DT ~20 minute epics. There is the occasional recurring theme, but mostly it moves from one theme to the next and doesn't return, which is exactly the same as ACOS, Octavarium, ITPOE and TCOT.
Arguably other classic longer songs are the same, like LTL and Metropolis.
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You know what I just figured out? I know now why this is really going to split fans.
This album is "pretty". And *I* mean that in a very good way. And not everyone is into that. But I would go so far as to say that Dream Theater has really achieved something magical here. Because they've created something that is beautiful and....well....PRETTY....and they didn't have to dumb down the musicmanship in order to do it. And I would argue that that is not an easy thing to accomplish. Because everyone who tries to write something this beautiful usually comes up with a sappy poppy radio song. So to write something so pretty without dumbing it down is really amazing.
I'm really starting to feel that this album is *REALLY* a bigger accomplishment that even I can currently comprehend after only two listens.
Great post, I absolutely agree with what you said and with the way you said it.
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I do find it amusing that anyone is commenting on IT being disjointed as though this is a new thing for DT ~20 minute epics. There is the occasional recurring theme, but mostly it moves from one theme to the next and doesn't return, which is exactly the same as ACOS, Octavarium, ITPOE and TCOT.
Arguably other classic longer songs are the same, like LTL and Metropolis.
Octavarium actually uses variations of the same theme in almost every single section, and is quite cohesive as a song musically, so you're wrong on that one.
Both TCOT and ITPOE definitely have their breaks in the flow, but to me they're just done a bit better. I'm not saying they're done perfectly, just relatively better.
It's not that there's a huge difference in what the songs are doing, I just don't feel that IT does it all that effectively compared to the others. The break in the song isn't musical, it's just a stop in the song, and the whole ambient/orchestral section doesn't have a lot of context in the song to me, unlike the break in TCOT, which I think fits perfectly.
I mean, it's all subjective here of course. It's just like the whole "this instrumental section doesn't fit". What works for some people, doesn't work for others, and what works in one song may not work as well in another.
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I feel like the strings break would have made more sense if they were featured in the rest of the song (and prominently). I mean i hear the same riff at the beginning but pretty sure JR is playing the sections outside of that one break.
I like it anyway but it is an odd transition at first. I kind of feel like ripping the ambient and orchestra and putting that as the easter egg and using the other easter egg elsewhere on the album would have flowed nicer, and ended the album nicely twice (the normal IT ending then the easter egg).
Love the album more and more as i listen to it. :D
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After 3 complete listens I can't say anything except :metal :hefdaddy
Hey, you can't react like that! This is not the DT you signed up for :lolpalm:
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I do find it amusing that anyone is commenting on IT being disjointed as though this is a new thing for DT ~20 minute epics. There is the occasional recurring theme, but mostly it moves from one theme to the next and doesn't return, which is exactly the same as ACOS, Octavarium, ITPOE and TCOT.
Arguably other classic longer songs are the same, like LTL and Metropolis.
Octavarium actually uses variations of the same theme in almost every single section, and is quite cohesive as a song musically, so you're wrong on that one.
Both TCOT and ITPOE definitely have their breaks in the flow, but to me they're just done a bit better. I'm not saying they're done perfectly, just relatively better.
It's not that there's a huge difference in what the songs are doing, I just don't feel that IT does it all that effectively compared to the others. The break in the song isn't musical, it's just a stop in the song, and the whole ambient/orchestral section doesn't have a lot of context in the song to me, unlike the break in TCOT, which I think fits perfectly.
I mean, it's all subjective here of course. It's just like the whole "this instrumental section doesn't fit". What works for some people, doesn't work for others, and what works in one song may not work as well in another.
Ok fair point on Octvarium, I'll give you that one.
And yeah, I wasn't really referring to you because you haven't just used a blanket "too disjointed" comment - you've been pretty clear that the flow just doesn't work for you. I don't agree at all, I love the way the song has the break in the middle, and the orchestral stuff is wonderful, but as you say, each to their own.
I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.
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Another thing that has occurred to me is that lots of people are praising how concise each song is, and I'm totally agreeing with that on the whole.
However, the one occasion where it seems like they tried too hard to do that and cut the song short is The Bigger Picture. The majority of the song is lovely, and it starts on a fantastic second section, with a new melody that I really wish they had explored further. When the song ends it feels like that new theme didn't get a chance to develop.
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I don't agree at all, I love the way the song has the break in the middle, and the orchestral stuff is wonderful, but as you say, each to their own.
I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.
Totally agree.
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The drums are much better. the first streams namely(TEI and AFTR) the drums seemed a bit weak. And the guitars also seemed a bit loud which kinda distorted the quality.
But now it's all in a new dimension. It's all fresh. The guitars are in-your-face kinda sound and the drums are really involving the song. I love the production so far...
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I feel like this album didn't quite reach its full potential. For starters, Dream Theater were working with an entire orchestra, but we only hear it featured prominently a few different times, and outside of the middle section of "Illumination Theory," it just doesn't seem to enhance the album in any way. There are some problems with the production, like the odd-sounding snare at the beginning of "The Bigger Picture," the awful keyboard tone in "Along For The Ride," clipping on Petrucci's guitar, and a lot of pointless echoes on LaBrie's voice. And I hate to say it, but a lot of the melodies are just forgettable- even after listening to the album about 6 or 7 times, I can barely remember what Enigma Machine, Behind The Veil, and Surrender To Reason sound like. If anything, DT could benefit from an extremely competent producer who will push them in the right direction creatively and sonically.
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That was Portnoy's job.
And I fuckin' called it. :hat
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On repeated listens,this is becoming better than i initially thought.But still.Songs sound a bit more 'poppy' than what DT has us used to.And i sometimes get the impression of a whole bunch of -nice- ideas get thrown randomly together.Rudess is a fantastic player,but i find his improvisations on youtube to be far more interesting than his recent work with the band.He's become a little stale and, sadly,repeats himself. Labrie sounds refreshed,but his voice is sometimes hard to be heard,because of all the vocal effects they're using.There are a lot of beautiful choruses on the album nonetheless.JM can be heard clearly and is more prominent on this,but i would like him contributing more in writing and pushing the band to unexplored soundscapes.MM is a very technical and capable drummer.It's just that he doesn't try something different,maybe the others didn't let him be as creative as he could authentically be.And JP.He is responsible for many many tears shed from my eyes.His emotion,his guitar playing feeling is one that i am really connected to.He is -by far- my favorite guitarist and musician.With that being said,i expect him to be as innovative and creative and melodic as i know he can be.In this album he isn't that impressive.I didn't hear anything mindblowing,like Blind Faith riffs and solos,like BAI in its entirety,like TBOT solo,like HTF riffs,like ...I found many interesting ideas that weren't fully or best developed.I think they needed more time to breathe.And maybe JP,being a songwriter,a lyricist,a producer,a player has too many responsibilities upon him.If they hired a producer,it might have been better for him to focus on the material itself.Maybe he is a bit distracted.But then again,he knows better.
Anyways,i am not judging DT.I am just saying my opinion.And expect from my beloved band to deliver each and every time.But as fans,we are more prone to dissapointment than any random listener.And you know what?It's not our fault.They just raised the bar too high.I hope they will become again what they used to be.Our Theater of Dreams.
My favorite song as of now,must be TBP.Followed by TLG and BTV.Could they stand side by side live with the band's classics?Time will tell.
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I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.
I've had the song for months, so I definitely disagree there. I personally don't think flow is something that requires many listens to understand and judge either, unlike other parts of the musicality.
The reason IT doesn't flow well for me is that the break is not musical, ie. there is nothing to maintain continuity but noise. Then after the orchestral section, the only thing leading back to the band coming in is again just a long noise. No continuity or flow at all.
The middle section is completely isolated to me from the rest of the song, so I don't consider the second half of the song to be at all related to the first half. There's nothing to tie it together. I'm not sure the second half of the song even has a musical tie-in to the first half (if it does, it wasn't noticeable to me), something which all of their other recent epics do well.
I love pretty much every section of the song on its own, but I don't feel it at all as one piece of music. It's a bunch of amazing ideas not put together too well imo.
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Didn't listen to it yet, but it's fun to read your comments!! :tup
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Anyways,i am not judging DT.I am just saying my opinion.And expect from my beloved band to deliver each and every time.But as fans,we are more prone to dissapointment than any random listener.
Uhm... no. I, as a fan, would say this is not necessarily true.
And you know what?It's not our fault.They just raised the bar too high.I hope they will become again what they used to be.Our Theater of Dreams.
I don't see your point here either. But that's because - for me - this album is just amazing, if there is something they did with this one it really is coming back to be my Theater of Dreams. They are reborn.
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I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.
I've had the song for months, so I definitely disagree there. I personally don't think flow is something that requires many listens to understand and judge either, unlike other parts of the musicality.
The reason IT doesn't flow well for me is that the break is not musical, ie. there is nothing to maintain continuity but noise. Then after the orchestral section, the only thing leading back to the band coming in is again just a long noise. No continuity or flow at all.
The middle section is completely isolated to me from the rest of the song, so I don't consider the second half of the song to be at all related to the first half. There's nothing to tie it together. I'm not sure the second half of the song even has a musical tie-in to the first half (if it does, it wasn't noticeable to me), something which all of their other recent epics do well.
I love pretty much every section of the song on its own, but I don't feel it at all as one piece of music. It's a bunch of amazing ideas not put together too well imo.
I kinda had this feeling and what you've written here is worrying me a bit, tbh. I'll keep listen to it, basically because I still need to dig more out of it and I really liked a lot of stuff going there.
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A little "tricky question" for you guys: if you were asked to compare with the old albums of DT, which one he would approach the most ? :yarr
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A little "tricky question" for you guys: if you were asked to compare with the old albums of DT, which one he would approach the most ? :yarr
Falling Into Infinity, Awake, Octavarium, A Dramatic Turn Of Events.
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I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.
I've had the song for months, so I definitely disagree there. I personally don't think flow is something that requires many listens to understand and judge either, unlike other parts of the musicality.
The reason IT doesn't flow well for me is that the break is not musical, ie. there is nothing to maintain continuity but noise. Then after the orchestral section, the only thing leading back to the band coming in is again just a long noise. No continuity or flow at all.
The middle section is completely isolated to me from the rest of the song, so I don't consider the second half of the song to be at all related to the first half. There's nothing to tie it together. I'm not sure the second half of the song even has a musical tie-in to the first half (if it does, it wasn't noticeable to me), something which all of their other recent epics do well.
I love pretty much every section of the song on its own, but I don't feel it at all as one piece of music. It's a bunch of amazing ideas not put together too well imo.
I kinda had this feeling and what you've written here is worrying me a bit, tbh. I'll keep listen to it, basically because I still need to dig more out of it and I really liked a lot of stuff going there.
Nobody's opinion matters but your own. Don't let anyone else's opinions worry you! :tup
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A little "tricky question" for you guys: if you were asked to compare with the old albums of DT, which one he would approach the most ? :yarr
A Dramatic Image of Falling Awake.
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A little "tricky question" for you guys: if you were asked to compare with the old albums of DT, which one he would approach the most ? :yarr
Falling Into Infinity, Awake, Octavarium, A Dramatic Turn Of Events.
======== >>>>>>> :rollin :metal :hefdaddy :blush :corn :eek and etc...Thanks guys I can't wait to listen it!! :biggrin:
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Nobody's opinion matters but your own. Don't let anyone else's opinions worry you! :tup
It's just I had that kind of feeling as well :)
All I can say at the moment, is that I like it more than TCOT. I hope it won't last like it though, I got bored just after a couple of weeks or so.
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I actually like the "disjointedness" of IT, imo it contributes greatly to the "cinematic" theme of the album. It feels like i'm involved in the music. It's hard to describe it, but this epic feels a lot more "organic" compared to the compositional prowess of the band's other epics. It's an ironic experience actually, and i feel it throughout the whole album.
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A little "tricky question" for you guys: if you were asked to compare with the old albums of DT, which one he would approach the most ? :yarr
A Dramatic Image of Falling Awake.
EVEN BETTER!!! :biggrin:
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I actually like the "disjointedness" of IT, imo it contributes greatly to the "cinematic" theme of the album. It feels like i'm involved in the music. It's hard to describe it, but this epic feels a lot more "organic" compared to the compositional prowess of the band's other epics. It's an ironic experience actually, and i feel it throughout the whole album.
Same, one of the things I love about DT is that they have some songs that take you on a journey rather than more traditional song structures, but that not all of their stuff is like that. Surrender to Reason and Illumination Theory are the ones that do that on this album (and FAS as well I suppose), while the rest are much simpler in structure.
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Having listened to the album all the way through a few times now (and a couple of times choosing my favourites only) I can say that for the first time since perhaps Octavarium DT has written an album that works well as a single unit. Previous albums had felt a bit disjointed (ADTOE the least and SC the most) but this one rewards full listening the most.
On the feel of the album: Dream Theater is very cinematic like JP put it, very cohesive due to the trimmed fat, quite experimental with several short songs (that is for DT) and also very song-oriented songwriting. My personal feelings are that this album is very beautiful and mysterious. It has many layers and I believe some songs will take the time to sink in.
This one is a band effort, everybody shines on it. Jordan plays tasteful at times (especially digging the piano) and then releases his wild side for mind-melting solos. JP has got the chocolate cake going and he also balances his playing really well, MM is very groovy and works well with JM, they really lay it out. JLB letting it all out in Illumination Theory.
I am in love with some of the songs, some of the songs generate interest due to their mysteriousness or quirkiness and some simply work greater in the context of the album. The only one that hasn't clicked with me yet at alL is The Looking Glass.
Rankings: TBP, IT, BTV, STR, EM, TEI, AFTR, FAS, TLG.
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I was completely blown away by the album. It left me with an overwhelming feeling of happiness. Favorite song by far was IT. I loved the unpredictability of the song; this song sounds the least like anything else DT has done. Progressive is an overused term; but IT actually does progress DT's sound.
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Jesus mother flippin christ,
IT, the 11:50'ish mark, James Labrie is raping and pillaging villages with that voice.
Dear god I love this album, I'm with H almost, it's at #2 for me, but this seriously may surpass I&W.
Wow...let's calm down a little bit guys. :biggrin:
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After 4 or 5 spins i like the album even more. It is exactly the kind of album tha i wanted to hear from DT. Proggy as hell, with some heavy moments, some "poppy" ones, a lot of melodies instead of simply shredding. i also feel that the band is working better as a whole unit on this album, (MORE MYUNG :metal ) and Mangini has settled in nicely.
I am so happy. ;D
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...And I hate to say it, but a lot of the melodies are just forgettable- even after listening to the album about 6 or 7 times, I can barely remember what Enigma Machine, Behind The Veil, and Surrender To Reason sound like. If anything, DT could benefit from an extremely competent producer who will push them in the right direction creatively and sonically.
This. Sadly.
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I actually like the "disjointedness" of IT, imo it contributes greatly to the "cinematic" theme of the album. It feels like i'm involved in the music. It's hard to describe it, but this epic feels a lot more "organic" compared to the compositional prowess of the band's other epics. It's an ironic experience actually, and i feel it throughout the whole album.
Same, one of the things I love about DT is that they have some songs that take you on a journey rather than more traditional song structures, but that not all of their stuff is like that. Surrender to Reason and Illumination Theory are the ones that do that on this album (and FAS as well I suppose), while the rest are much simpler in structure.
Yup, such songs are really effective when you're in bed at night and you're about to sleep; when you close your eyes and you're preparing to dream, there are moments that you're like half-conscious and half-reflective, then a crushing riff or bass line gets to you and you're fully into the beat again. SFAM, BAI, LTL and Trial of Tears did that very well for me, haha.
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I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.
I've had the song for months, so I definitely disagree there. I personally don't think flow is something that requires many listens to understand and judge either, unlike other parts of the musicality.
The reason IT doesn't flow well for me is that the break is not musical, ie. there is nothing to maintain continuity but noise. Then after the orchestral section, the only thing leading back to the band coming in is again just a long noise. No continuity or flow at all.
The middle section is completely isolated to me from the rest of the song, so I don't consider the second half of the song to be at all related to the first half. There's nothing to tie it together. I'm not sure the second half of the song even has a musical tie-in to the first half (if it does, it wasn't noticeable to me), something which all of their other recent epics do well.
I love pretty much every section of the song on its own, but I don't feel it at all as one piece of music. It's a bunch of amazing ideas not put together too well imo.
I feel that a variation of the main intro theme also recurs in Surrender, Trust & Passion at 15:35. Much slower, but it's the same chord progression. First heavy riff is also at 15:00 or so.
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I love it. Can't wait to here the CD. FAS and STR still have a little growing to do on me but the rest has everything that I love about DT. IT will quickly move into my Top 5 and may or may not challenge ACOS for the # 2 spot. TDOE is my #1 and will probably never be topped.
I'm happy. Spent most of the last 5 hrs listening to the stream.
Wait, just so we're clear..."The Dance Of Eternity" is your top DT song?
Yes.
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Seems to be quite a divide in the fan base. Normal for a new DT album. I'm curious how this will break down between new fans and
long time fans. From what I've read so far the long time fans really seem to dig this, not 100% but a very high percentage, while
the newer fans don't connect as well with this one. I'm sure someone will do a poll at some point. Results will be interesting.
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There was more or less the same split during ADTOE discussion.
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One of my fave moments :
That Metallica style riff in Behind The Veil which has that pushed note at the end of each phrase - and the drums come back in on beat 3 of the next phrase.
:metal
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After many listens now i m sad to say that the album has not clicked the way i was hoping. :( The bigger picture stands out to me as a best track in the album, love the blend of heavy riffs and memorable melodies. TBP also has one of the best choruses in a DT album for a long time.
IT was also pretty good but i will still rank it as a worst DT epic alongside TCOT. I would be just happy if they released an EP with those two songs on it, the rest was just mediocre. Hoping that the next album will blow me away like ADTOE in 2011
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One of my fave moments :
That Metallica style riff in Behind The Veil which has that pushed note at the end of each phrase - and the drums come back in on beat 3 of the next phrase.
:metal
Ahh yea, love that part! :metal
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Man I need to find more music that's like the DT12 easter egg.
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Levin / Minnemann / Rudess trumps DT12 easily.
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One of my fave moments :
That Metallica style riff in Behind The Veil which has that pushed note at the end of each phrase - and the drums come back in on beat 3 of the next phrase.
:metal
Ahh yea, love that part! :metal
Yeah, that's a cool riff. :hat
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Only had time for 2 or 3 full listens, only enough for Illusion Theory to stand out to me. I think I need more time to come to conclusions about the songs, except I don't think any bar IL have potential to be real top tier DT songs.
Illusion Theory however had some impact right away; DT really always bring their best stuff to the epics. The first section, the section after the strings (haven't had a chance to go back and look at the movement names yet) are great, and I didn't mind the ambient section much at all despite having some worries about how it would affect the song. Unfortunately its strange structure means the song is a bit disjointed to listen to, and while all the epics will always be a little disjointed I don't think the way IL is put together works as well as, say, the logical build up of Octavarium. The "easter egg" doesn't help matters - it's a nice enough piece of music, but either just include it properly in the album or make it an epilogue track. If I want 35 seconds of silence, I can switch off the music myself. In its current form the epilogue only leaves me wondering what to do with it so I can best listen to Illusion Theory without disrupting the flow of things.
As mentioned I don't have verdicts on the other songs yet, but right now when thinking of the album I'm mostly comparing it in quality to Octavarium and finding it coming up short, which puts it at most 8th in the DT album rankings, around SC and FII.
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I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.
I've had the song for months, so I definitely disagree there. I personally don't think flow is something that requires many listens to understand and judge either, unlike other parts of the musicality.
The reason IT doesn't flow well for me is that the break is not musical, ie. there is nothing to maintain continuity but noise. Then after the orchestral section, the only thing leading back to the band coming in is again just a long noise. No continuity or flow at all.
The middle section is completely isolated to me from the rest of the song, so I don't consider the second half of the song to be at all related to the first half. There's nothing to tie it together. I'm not sure the second half of the song even has a musical tie-in to the first half (if it does, it wasn't noticeable to me), something which all of their other recent epics do well.
I love pretty much every section of the song on its own, but I don't feel it at all as one piece of music. It's a bunch of amazing ideas not put together too well imo.
At first listen I agree with you. But as I got to hear it more and more there is a re-occurring melody, I dont have the times memorize are where they appear. I know someone else said this too, but im to lazy to go back and find their post.
Anyways, Usually for me after I get the musical book I enjoy the album more. I can visually see everything thats going progression wise, melody wise, time signature, re-occurring themes, variations of themes etc etc. Yes a piece might be "choppy" but also seeing whats happening underneath is a whole new level of understanding.
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I think in terms of flow, a big part of that is lack of familiarity with the song. ACOS feels like it flows great because we've heard it so many times. I think the same will be the case with IT.
I've had the song for months, so I definitely disagree there. I personally don't think flow is something that requires many listens to understand and judge either, unlike other parts of the musicality.
The reason IT doesn't flow well for me is that the break is not musical, ie. there is nothing to maintain continuity but noise. Then after the orchestral section, the only thing leading back to the band coming in is again just a long noise. No continuity or flow at all.
The middle section is completely isolated to me from the rest of the song, so I don't consider the second half of the song to be at all related to the first half. There's nothing to tie it together. I'm not sure the second half of the song even has a musical tie-in to the first half (if it does, it wasn't noticeable to me), something which all of their other recent epics do well.
I love pretty much every section of the song on its own, but I don't feel it at all as one piece of music. It's a bunch of amazing ideas not put together too well imo.
I feel that a variation of the main intro theme also recurs in Surrender, Trust & Passion at 15:35. Much slower, but it's the same chord progression. First heavy riff is also at 15:00 or so.
Great spots, that awesome bluesy riff from the start is used underneath the whole instrumental/solo section from 14:00 onwards, and as you say the section that follows is the same chords (and generally similar) to the orchestral theme from the start.
EDIT: In fact, I'd need to dedicate some more time to it but it seems to me that most of Surrender, Trust & Passion is based on the same theme.
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After few listens I can say it might be one of my favorites. Everything I like about DT is there and some things I dislike in SC, BC&SL and some other songs are not here (JR's wankery on keys, pointless long instrumentals etc.). For me it's almost like I&W and Awake. I may write more about each song later when they get into my head.
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Big round of replies after listening to the album for a second time while reading through this topic:
First listen reactions: More like a random copy and paste collection of various interludes.
This can be a copy paste comment for every single DT album review since the first one. I always laugh because when every new DT album gets released, there will always be a faction that says this exact same thing on every single album release.
The thing is it never felt like this much copy and paste to me before, even on BCASL and TOT. I definitely prefer songs that are written to songs that are constructed and I think most of this album sounds very constructed.
I was just wondering if you could be more specific as regards what you mean when you say 'filler' (a word you use a lot). I don't see it as a word of much substance.
You're right, filler can be a filler kind of word without much substance. And it's substance I miss on this album, a lot of it feels superficial, hollow, and empty. It's supposed and said to be more song focussed yet it feels like a mish mash of individual parts and ideas glued together without cohesion. It's like those overly technical interludes trying to connect two sections of a song that end up more like a wedge separating them. And for me DT12 is a collection of these wedges.
Illumination Theory tries so hard it hurts. Really, just give up on the epic thing. It's sounded forced every time going back to Octavarium and this is certainly no different.
It feels extremely forced, like "okay, and now let's do the epic, anyone got a few seconds worth of epic, let's connect the stuff until we're at twenty minutes" with crampy faces.
Ideas are thrown away randomly and they are not properly developed. Choruses are really weak, and that could be said for all vocal melodies, except for Illumination Theory. Even Petrucci's solos are uninspired and pretty forgettable.
There are no memorable vocal melodies, the riffs are all over the place and nothing stands out except for a few moments here and there. I really liked ADTOE and thought it was there best work since SDOIT but the music on this album is just putting me to sleep. The enemy within is the only song that I really like. I'll buy the album when it comes out just so that I have it in my DT collection, but I have no desire to see them play these songs live this time around.
Yeah, I think the lyrics / vocal melodies are the biggest weaknesses here. Just not much sticks out or is memorable. Hopefully as KevShmev suggested the album could just be a grower.
A few production issues aside I like ADTOE a lot too. It took me a few spins to really get into it but it had several moments that grabbed me and made me look forward to listening to them again. I miss those moments on DT12, there are only a few sound nuggets that made me raise an eyebrow. Hardly any of the vocal melodies, riffing and solo lines had any touching, moving, or inspiring impact on me in any way. Though I'm pretty sure though at least some of it will grow in time. Especially with the CD and 5.1 mix as the stream quality is something that affects my reception of the songs quite a lot.
Haven't listened yet, but to those who think Illumination Theory sounds disjointed (which it very well may), you can't really cite A Change of Seasons as an example of a "smoothly flowing" epic. ACoS is my favorite DT song, but quite frankly it's full of abrupt transitions and strange pace changes.
I don't beg to differ, I demand to differ here. I'd even go as far as saying ACOS has more way cohesion as a song than most of the songs on DT12, which is a major reason I'm having a hard time feeling the music.
I'm shocked there are this many people disliking the album.
Ummm... I'd say 90% is over the top positive.
I also tried to listen to it quietly last night, but I fell asleep somewhere in the middle, so after two and a half times listening to it I'm afraid I'm still pretty meh about it.
And something I'd never have thought I'd say... MM the guy almost overdoses on great character and personality but his drumming has almost none of that, it feels so sterile and cold compared to his performance on ADTOE or his energy on stage.
Let's see if and how this album will grow. I can't always trust my initial reception of an album (as an example I disliked Ayreon's The Human Equation a lot on the first listen, but it clicked the second time and now it's the best fucking album of the decade 2001-2010 for me) but so far I'm still in a tunnel with no light at the end with DT12.
Greetings...
Nef
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After many listens now i m sad to say that the album has not clicked the way i was hoping. :(
Hoping that the next album will blow me away like ADTOE in 2011
This. Sadly.
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:lol people already dismissing the album and looking froward to the next one after ONE DAY.
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First listen verdict:
I've never been so indifferent and less excited about a release by my favorite band. I hope this changes after a few more listens.
What won't change are my thoughts on the production. The sound of this album has really hindered my ability to enjoy it thus far.
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We seeeeek to understaaaaand...
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I thought that the sound of the album after the two singles would be a problem but It doesn't bother me at all.
It makes the album sound unique.
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We seeeeek to understaaaaand...
Yep, that part it's so sincerely dark i like it a lot.
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after the first listen, i can only say that it seems every member personally called me and asked what i want the new album to sound like.
this is IMHO easily the best material they've released since 6DOIT.
but it has to pass the car test (i have to wait for it to get out and then spin it a few times in my car- i've found that it is for some reason the ultimate listening experience for me)
in short, i like it very much! :tup
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There's nothing to tie it I'm not sure the second half of the song even has a musical tie-in to the first half (if it does, it wasn't noticeable to me), something which all of their other recent epics do well
Well, it certainly does. Off the top of my head, the riff under the heavy instrumental section is a reprise of the live die kill riff, and the song ends over the same chords that begin the song. I only heard the song for the first time yesterday so it's likely there are more tie ins that I missed.
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There's nothing to tie it I'm not sure the second half of the song even has a musical tie-in to the first half (if it does, it wasn't noticeable to me), something which all of their other recent epics do well
Well, it certainly does. Off the top of my head, the riff under the heavy instrumental section is a reprise of the live die kill riff, and the song ends over the same chords that begin the song. I only heard the song for the first time yesterday so it's likely there are more tie ins that I missed.
Ok fair enough, but it still doesn't feel at all cohesive as a song to me, despite having such great sections.
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Honestly, I am amused about the dislike on the new album. Does it have something to do with it being self-titled, that makes people expect it way beyond the usual? Yes, it's not a concept album nor it does have the recurring qualities of one, but the songs are really solid, eclectic, and it flows very well, and this is coming from a fan who started his DT journey from SFAM, haha.
For me, the music is in the spirit of Circus Maximus' NINE, or Distorted Harmony and The Great Gamble's debut. In essence, it's just refreshing, more accessible, but definitely "colorful" album. "Progressive" doesn't even define this album's different flavors aptly.
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As I´m listening more and more, I´m getting to the conclusion some of us already took: DT12 is in the top 5 DT albums for me. I´m sorry for those of you who haven´t clicked with the album the way I did, but to me it sounds better at every listen. And sound quality wise, I can hear all instruments clearly with this stream, and can only begin to imagine how good this will sound when I finally get the CD in my hands.
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I don't understand these people who dislike an album after the 1st listen...
First and mainly:
I'm a musician and I play lot's of tunes from Dream Theater, (which in fact are the ones that challenge me the most) and every song of them are musically perfect. In case of you guys who aren't musicians i'll tell you right away writing a song is easy, but knowing what's there knowing how to aply the vast knowledge of music and make everything logic and professional is very hard. You might take years to write songs like "Metropolis Pt1" and such.
So, understand that it's not an easy job to please the fans staying true to the roots and give a bit of spontaneous and fresh like this album. Understand that comprehension is needed to appreciate someones work.
Secondly:
For the ones hoping to find better music in the future let's forget that! The future is very relative and Dream Theater (in extremely hard circumstances) would come to an end. Imagine that (a terrible thing in my opinion, a fatal tragedy) this would be the last album out...
The most people that listen to music nowadays like Muse and stuff (nothing against) but Muse compared to DT is like a song with basic chords and a classic piece of Bach or Beethoven. Still they get an enormous success and not much negative critics which in my opinion is a shame. On the other side, Dream Theater stays months in a studio trying to write the album of their lives getting influences on top and vibes from early records. That's not an easy thing to do and they get crucified after the 1st day the album is out fro streaming.
Thirdly:
I'm only a fan but I can assure that this album is going to be an awesome album by the way things are going and I truly hope that this time they win a Grammy. That would shut a lot of people., One thing is certain, (and this is for most of the people who think that DT could've spend more time in studio) the album "Train of Thought" was written in 8 days, is one of their best works and it took that short amount time. Conclusion of this last paragraph, it doesn't matter the time, what matters is the final product in their opinions. What matters is new music. For the fans of the previous albums and not so fans of this one I give the following advice:
Listen to all of your favorite albums from the past and play the new one before each album. Compare and relate fragments of music. If you still disappointed, go back and listen only to the previous records.
That's why they're called Records.
Sorry if I hurt anyone in anyway, it wasn't my intention. I only wanted to prove that Dream Theater is great and most of its greatness is appreciated only when times goes by or when terrible things happens.
P.S. For the not so fans of Mike Mangini and Portnoy's Fans and people who support the idea that Portnoy was way better. Think this: "If you were in the place of Mangini's and were on his skin, how would you feel reading the treads related to you (being you on his skin)?"
Let the guy do his work. He is trying to bring fresh elements but keeping the old ones as well. if you're gonna listen to somebody's record thinking that it'll suck right from the beginning, then you might not listen to it...
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Way to go, Filipe! So, will you be checking DT in Lisbon or Porto next January? My sister lives in Lisbon, but since I visited her this year already, I thought of going some place else in Europe next year, so I´ll check out the shows in MAdrid, PAmplona and BArcelona. So glad I chose to follow them around on a tour to support such an awesome album!!! :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
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Honestly, I am amused about the dislike on the new album.
Let's get things in proportion here - there is actually very little dislike towards the album. In fact, I'd say this is generally probably the most positive I've seen the fanbase to a new DT album since becoming a fan (around the SDOIT time, and I joined the forum community around the Octavarium time).
Of course there are some people who don't like it, that is the case for literally EVERY SINGLE band or artist that has been around for a long time. Long standing musicians and bands gradually build a following of fans from different tastes, backgrounds, etc. Especially artists where there is variation in style from album to album, such as DT, this means that every fan has different wants, and different likes and dislikes. So every single song they release, some will love it, many will like it, some won't care for it, and a few will hate it.
But frankly, the number of people expressing disappointment/dislike of this album is really quite small (just check out the poll thread for some perspective).
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I don't understand these people who dislike an album after the 1st listen...
...
This.
I have to mention I didn't like ADTOE on first or even second listen. But after I took the time to listen to each song separately whole album clicked with me. And now I like all songs on album (and BAI is one of my favorites by DT). I understand it didn't click with you after first listen but give DT more spins, You may like it.
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I don't understand these people who dislike an album after the 1st listen...
It's just the same as people who absolutely love an album after the first listen. These are first impressions. You never know, this album, which you love at the moment, might not age well. Give people some credit and don't write them all off as being impatient.
The most people that listen to music nowadays like Muse and stuff (nothing against) but Muse compared to DT is like a song with basic chords and a classic piece of Bach or Beethoven. Still they get an enormous success and not much negative critics which in my opinion is a shame.
First of all, Muse have written some brilliant music over the years, much of it better than DT's output in the same period. I agree it's a shame that DT aren't more 'successful' in commercial terms, but that shouldn't be used as a criticism of Muse. Anyhow, I think DT are gradually gaining a greater presence in the mainstream.
I wish people would let those who don't like the new album have their opinion (as long it's expressed respectfully). Just because we all post on a DT fan forum, doesn't mean we have to like everything they do. Dislike is no less valid than like.
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Way to go, Filipe! So, will you be checking DT in Lisbon or Porto next January? My sister lives in Lisbon, but since I visited her this year already, I thought of going some place else in Europe next year, so I´ll check out the shows in MAdrid, PAmplona and BArcelona. So glad I chose to follow them around on a tour to support such an awesome album!!! :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
I live in Porto and I'm going to spend 60€ to watch them along with my wife. I love their work and I will support each and every work of Dream Theater. They are the best on the planet!
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after the first listen, i can only say that it seems every member personally called me and asked what i want the new album to sound like.
THIS. =))
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I don't understand these people who dislike an album after the 1st listen...
It's just the same as people who absolutely love an album after the first listen. These are first impressions. You never know, this album, which you love at the moment, might not age well. Give people some credit and don't write them all off as being impatient.
The most people that listen to music nowadays like Muse and stuff (nothing against) but Muse compared to DT is like a song with basic chords and a classic piece of Bach or Beethoven. Still they get an enormous success and not much negative critics which in my opinion is a shame.
First of all, Muse have written some brilliant music over the years, much of it better than DT's output in the same period. I agree it's a shame that DT aren't more 'successful' in commercial terms, but that shouldn't be used as a criticism of Muse. Anyhow, I think DT are gradually gaining a greater presence in the mainstream.
I wish people would let those who don't like the new album have their opinion (as long it's expressed respectfully). Just because we all post on a DT fan forum, doesn't mean we have to like everything they do. Dislike is no less valid than like.
I agree with you and I apology if I was rude. I didn't wanted to hurt anybody in anyway like I said before. I'm not a fan of Muse I listened to the album "2nd Law" and I didn't like and I don't think that is a great record. But it's only my opinion.
I was only trying to say that some bands are less professional or less professional or whatever less than DT and they get granted by it. I'm a huge fan of Megadeth too (actually I started to listen to Megadeth before DT) and I tell you that Megadeth doens't get close to Dream Theater in therms of music and professionalism.
I think that DT is underrated.
Once again I'm so sorry if I, by expressing my opinion hurt any of you.
Sorry!
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It's not about hurting anyone, and you don't have to be sorry for expressing your opinions. More besides, that actually comes across as more condescending than sorry. :P
No band is over or underrated. Dream Theater has huge appreciation from its fans (see the love bandwagon of DT12) and they are widely respected by non-fans as well for their great musical prowess. Don't you think you're just being a little overenthusiastic, as good as your intentions are? ;)
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You´re lucky you wife likes them as well. The closest I managed to get my wife to the DT realm was taking her to see The Winery Dogs, which she loved. But she can´t stand LaBrie´s voice, so we´ll go together on this trip next year but she´ll do something else when I´m at the concerts. ;D ;D
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One question - where's the bass solo??
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Just to be clear:
The album is technically brilliant. But this is not engineering: it's art. Art moves you, or not. This piece of art, so far, doesn't. That's all.
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One question - where's the bass solo??
You mean on the instrumental track? I don´t mind that it does not have a bass solo. Myung shines all the way through the whole album. He´s like a kid in a candy shop in this CD.
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I absolutely adore this album (as of right now, after 4 listens). Obviously, that will possibly change over the next weeks, months, and years, but that is how I feel right now.
Illumination Theory blows TCOT and ITPOE out of the water, but I'm not sure about 8VM or ACOS.
I generally like every song, but AFTR, IT, TBP, and STR stand out right now.
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I
Illumination Theory blows TCOT and ITPOE out of the water, but I'm not sure about 8VM or ACOS.
YYYYYYeessssssss!!!!! :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
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One question - where's the bass solo??
It's from 5:43 - 5:54 in Metropolis Pt. 1.
:angel:
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My first reactions:
- Great performances by each individual member, except JLB (although this is more a matter of personal taste as I can't stand his voice anymore). And JR seems a little bit less creative and experimental with his sounds, there was no part when I remember saying "this keyboard sound is new".
- DT is on autopilot, specially regarding the vocal melodies. Not much effort put there, that was a big disappointment as their melodies are usually good to excellent (although a little bit on the safe side).
- Most songs definitely sound like a mish mash of unrelated sections. True, this is part of the signature DT style, but in previous albums they had more time to develop their musical ideas, and even though there were abrupt transitions, you felt that there was more coherence. With this album, the songs are shorter, and many ideas are only explored for a few seconds, so the end product sounds especially convoluted.
- To me, this is the DT album with the worst "flow", especially after the first two tracks that actually flow very well. DT was very good at taking a bunch of good songs and make them flow beautifully and effortlessly into the big picture, and therefore the album ended up having some personality and feeling shorter than it actually was. It was like a well directed roller coaster, very dynamic and balanced, and with emotions put into the right place. This album feels either too forced or too bland, the end product is rushed and tiring to listen to.
- Enigma Machine was disappointing. An example of a song without personality. Riff here, riff there, solo here, amazing drums there, let's put an epic mini solo towards the end, and some Disney sounds after that. The result? A bunch of musical ideas thrown in together which make no sense as a song.
My opinion: The whole is much less than the sum of its parts. Great individual performances, some amazing musical ideas, mediocre album.
The good: The first two tracks, some amazing moments in the epic.
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This band has balls. They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged. Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album? They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged. What a huge risk. If it falls flat, they look pretty silly. But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off. This album is absolute perfection from start to finish. This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal. Bravo, Dream Theater!
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Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?
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Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?
My opinion only. I'll take Portnoy's compositions any day. Mangini is killer on this album but most of the fills are amazing
largely because of their speed, not necessarily that they are fresh and new odd combinations that are inspiring from
a compositional standpoint. I'm sure many people will disagree with me though :)
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This band has balls. They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged. Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album? They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged. What a huge risk. If it falls flat, they look pretty silly. But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off. This album is absolute perfection from start to finish. This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal. Bravo, Dream Theater!
Great post!! :tup I absolutely agree with you!
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One question - where's the bass solo??
It's from 5:43 - 5:54 in Metropolis Pt. 1.
:angel:
I'm sure they said in one of the studio previews that there is a bass solo on the new album. I don't remember hearing it.
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I'm not a fan of the mix at all - guitars are very high up in it and the drums feel off.
That's two DT albums in a row with mixes I don't enjoy, which is a shame after black clouds sounded so great.
As for the album itself, it feels pretty forgettable aside from the epic - I'm not a fan of the more heavy/guitar driven feel of it at all. Haken are the new prog metal kings for me :yarr
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This band has balls. They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged. Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album? They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged. What a huge risk. If it falls flat, they look pretty silly. But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off. This album is absolute perfection from start to finish. This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal. Bravo, Dream Theater!
Great post!! :tup I absolutely agree with you!
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I´m now falling in love with the chorus of The Looking Glass: "you live without shame, you´re digging up a goldmine...standing on the sideways, watching through the looking glass". Is that it?
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Honestly, I am amused about the dislike on the new album.
Let's get things in proportion here - there is actually very little dislike towards the album. In fact, I'd say this is generally probably the most positive I've seen the fanbase to a new DT album since becoming a fan (around the SDOIT time, and I joined the forum community around the Octavarium time).
Of course there are some people who don't like it, that is the case for literally EVERY SINGLE band or artist that has been around for a long time. Long standing musicians and bands gradually build a following of fans from different tastes, backgrounds, etc. Especially artists where there is variation in style from album to album, such as DT, this means that every fan has different wants, and different likes and dislikes. So every single song they release, some will love it, many will like it, some won't care for it, and a few will hate it.
But frankly, the number of people expressing disappointment/dislike of this album is really quite small (just check out the poll thread for some perspective).
Pretty much this. I'm not the type to attempt to rob anyone of their enjoyment of anything, let alone my favorite band.
I want to like the album, I just don't yet.
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This band has balls. They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged. Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album? They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged. What a huge risk. If it falls flat, they look pretty silly. But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off. This album is absolute perfection from start to finish. This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal. Bravo, Dream Theater!
Great post!! :tup I absolutely agree with you!
Thanks! And seriously, this band has been around so long they could've been content to just release the same types of albums and everyone would be happy. But they wanted to set an even higher bar for themselves and push things to an even higher new level. So brave. You gotta respect it. My respect for DT, which was crazy high to begin with, just exploded through the roof with this album. I can't believe they pulled this off.
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I simply can not stop listening to this album.
Without breaking the forum rules, lets just say that it's not just available as a stream, which means it's been moved to all the ways I listen to music (even if my damn iphone got confused and copied TEI three times because I bought the single) pending my purchase next week. I'm listening to it in my car, on my phone, on my computer, and it just grabs me every time I listen to it. It prunes away all the excessive wankery and instrumental overkill that the band had become known for while maintaining their sheer technical brilliance. IT is rapidly becoming one of my favorite DT tracks ever. I love that JMX is so upfront in terms not only of mix but in terms of what he's playing. I have no problem with the drum sound, but I'm willing to admit that it has a particularly 80s vibe to it and I'm still a sucker for 80s drum sounds (and anyone who isn't impressed by what's being played, well, I have no idea how to impress you.) It's a fantastic album.
One thing it's done, though, is make me realize how safe ADTOE was. I suppose making an album that was safe and familiar made sense under the circumstances, but I'm glad they stepped off in a bit different direction, as much as I loved ADTOE. This is the most focused the band has been in years. I love it to pieces.
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In b4 ban! :P
Soooooo.... bass solo?
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I simply can not stop listening to this album.
Without breaking the forum rules, lets just say that it's not just available as a stream, which means it's been moved to all the ways I listen to music (even if my damn iphone got confused and copied TEI three times because I bought the single) pending my purchase next week. I'm listening to it in my car, on my phone, on my computer, and it just grabs me every time I listen to it. It prunes away all the excessive wankery and instrumental overkill that the band had become known for while maintaining their sheer technical brilliance. IT is rapidly becoming one of my favorite DT tracks ever. I love that JMX is so upfront in terms not only of mix but in terms of what he's playing. I have no problem with the drum sound, but I'm willing to admit that it has a particularly 80s vibe to it and I'm still a sucker for 80s drum sounds (and anyone who isn't impressed by what's being played, well, I have no idea how to impress you.) It's a fantastic album.
One thing it's done, though, is make me realize how safe ADTOE was. I suppose making an album that was safe and familiar made sense under the circumstances, but I'm glad they stepped off in a bit different direction, as much as I loved ADTOE. This is the most focused the band has been in years. I love it to pieces.
On the first bold point - fully agree!!! I´d like to hear from those who hated the album WHAT in God´s name should they have done to impress you.
On the second bold point - agree as well. ADTOE was a band willing to just "survive for now". It seems they have nurtured themselves with the energy of the ADTOE Tour and found the strength to carry on.
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Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?
My opinion only. I'll take Portnoy's compositions any day. Mangini is killer on this album but most of the fills are amazing
largely because of their speed, not necessarily that they are fresh and new odd combinations that are inspiring from
a compositional standpoint. I'm sure many people will disagree with me though :)
I think they are two completely different styles of drummers, and under any other circumstances, I probably wouldn't compare them side by side because of that. But, obviously the comparison is looming because of the context of the situation.
I have been struggling to compare these two though, even listening through the new record a few times now. MP is just different than MM. I don't think its a question of who is MORE creative... I would say the better question would be: whose creative style do you personally enjoy the most? Both guys are obviously great, it just comes down to personal preference.
Personally, I prefer I&W through ToT MP over MM. But I think I prefer MM over Oct. through BC&SL MP. It really changes depending on my mood though, some days I like to hear MP's in-front-of the beat groovy style, other days I like to hear MM's backbone, technical, colorful playing, it really just depends.
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This band has balls. They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged. Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album? They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged. What a huge risk. If it falls flat, they look pretty silly. But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off. This album is absolute perfection from start to finish. This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal. Bravo, Dream Theater!
Great post!! :tup I absolutely agree with you!
Thanks! And seriously, this band has been around so long they could've been content to just release the same types of albums and everyone would be happy. But they wanted to set an even higher bar for themselves and push things to an even higher new level. So brave. You gotta respect it. My respect for DT, which was crazy high to begin with, just exploded through the roof with this album. I can't believe they pulled this off.
See, for me I get why they went with a s/t record because it sounds like Dream Theater. But there in lies the problem for me - it's the opposite of your statement - I could find an past example of every part of this album in their back catalogue. I don't see anything new or brave, or any bars being raised.
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See, for me I get why they went with a s/t record because it sounds like Dream Theater. But there in lies the problem for me - it's the opposite of your statement - I could find an past example of every part of this album in their back catalogue. I don't see anything new or brave, or any bars being raised.
QFT. To call an album the quintessential or definitive album of a band is at complete odds with it being experimental or out of their comfort zone.
You want experimention? Look at Radiohead, Thrice, Porcupine Tree, Muse, Opeth, Nine Inch Nails, Amorphis, BTBAM, etc.
Dream Theater have been in their comfort zone since Images and Words (not that there is anything wrong with that).
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I'm just finishing my second listen through, and if I thought I liked it after the first one, I love it after the second! I still need more time to digest it, but the fact that I'm sitting here excited to click the replay button is a good thing in my book. :tup
Seems to be quite a divide in the fan base. Normal for a new DT album. I'm curious how this will break down between new fans and
long time fans. From what I've read so far the long time fans really seem to dig this, not 100% but a very high percentage, while
the newer fans don't connect as well with this one. I'm sure someone will do a poll at some point. Results will be interesting.
I'd respectfully disagree because I only became a fan a few months ago and I'm in love. :heart Still, it might be a trend that I haven't noticed. I just know for me personally, this is definitely one for the ages.
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This band has balls. They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged. Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album? They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged. What a huge risk. If it falls flat, they look pretty silly. But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off. This album is absolute perfection from start to finish. This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal. Bravo, Dream Theater!
Great post!! :tup I absolutely agree with you!
Thanks! And seriously, this band has been around so long they could've been content to just release the same types of albums and everyone would be happy. But they wanted to set an even higher bar for themselves and push things to an even higher new level. So brave. You gotta respect it. My respect for DT, which was crazy high to begin with, just exploded through the roof with this album. I can't believe they pulled this off.
See, for me I get why they went with a s/t record because it sounds like Dream Theater. But there in lies the problem for me - it's the opposite of your statement - I could find an past example of every part of this album in their back catalogue. I don't see anything new or brave, or any bars being raised.
Well, new is the music! The new album has new songs, new riffs, new melodies. Things we haven't heard it before.
Brave is the fact of having a self titled right NOW after a crisis like MP's leaving, it just gotta take balls to put a self tittled album based on what they had behind projecting what will it be in the future...
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It just came to me that the "woosh" at the end of the heavenly orchestra section of IT sounds like a plane crashing, and then I look at the album cover of ADTOE. *overanalyzation imminent* :rollin
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See, for me I get why they went with a s/t record because it sounds like Dream Theater. But there in lies the problem for me - it's the opposite of your statement - I could find an past example of every part of this album in their back catalogue. I don't see anything new or brave, or any bars being raised.
QFT. To call an album the quintessential or definitive album of a band is at complete odds with it being experimental or out of their comfort zone.
You want experimention? Look at Radiohead, Thrice, Porcupine Tree, Muse, Opeth, Nine Inch Nails, Amorphis, BTBAM, etc.
Dream Theater have been in their comfort zone since Images and Words (not that there is anything wrong with that).
Even though I love them, I don't know if DT should even be called 'progressive' anymore. To me there is a lot more to being progressive than being technically proficient and using odd time signatures.
With that said, a lot of music that is given the progressive label, really isn't either.
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It just came to me that the "woosh" at the end of the heavenly orchestra section of IT sounds like a plane crashing, and then I look at the album cover of ADTOE. *overanalyzation imminent* :rollin
Nope I totally thought the same thing too. And out of the ashes of the plane crash rises DT 2.0? :justjen
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One more thought. This is my favorite JR performance by miles. It's the most tasteful/appealing to me that he has ever
been.
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One more thought. This is my favorite JR performance by miles. It's the most tasteful/appealing to me that he has ever
been.
Same here.
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No better feeling as a longtime fan (not nearly as long as many) than pride! I was so proud of our guys last night when I listened to the album for the first time, they did a great job. I think what came through the most for me is that you can hear the fun in the music again, and I can't wait to have more great times listening to this music because I like it a lot.
and I don't care what anybody says, JLB is the man :metal
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It just came to me that the "woosh" at the end of the heavenly orchestra section of IT sounds like a plane crashing, and then I look at the album cover of ADTOE. *overanalyzation imminent* :rollin
Nope I totally thought the same thing too. And out of the ashes of the plane crash rises DT 2.0? :justjen
That is a nice thought. To me they sound fresher and more inspired than, basically 10 years. JM is back on top, JP set himself to another level - that was hard - JR finally stopped to shredding in a useless way and James is just astounding. Not to mention the brand new Mike, which is..well, may I say epicsome.
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I don't care what anybody says, JLB is the man :metal
I agree! :2metal:
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For those who might be concerned that MM doesn't have up to par creativity and groove I present for your consideration The Looking Glass! :omg:
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I don't care what anybody says, JLB is the man :metal
I agree! :2metal:
This.
For those who might be concerned that MM doesn't have up to par creativity and groove I present for your consideration The Looking Glass! :omg:
And this. =)
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The Looking Glass is really growing on me a lot!!
The second chorus into dat sweet bass groove into dat ridiculous JP solo is pretty awesome!
Really feeling the chorus of this song right now. I love how the first half is clean the first two times they play it and then after it comes back in after the guitar solo its just massive!! If I have one complaint about this song right now is that it feels like it ends a little too quick. Even if they just went back and played that big guitar riff they used as the intro for the outro that would do it for me. But overall, this song is really good and it totally just sucked me in while I'm listening to it at work. Took me probably 3 or 4 spins to get to this point, which is a good sign, because this stuff just keeps growing on me!!
Oh and I agree, MM sounds super good on this track, real groovy and cool creative parts flying in and out constantly!
:tup :tup
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Okay guys, I'm halfway through my first listen of the album, and I can now say that it is the worst DT album ever recorded, by far.
Sure Bob.
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This band has balls. They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged. Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album? They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged. What a huge risk. If it falls flat, they look pretty silly. But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off. This album is absolute perfection from start to finish. This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal. Bravo, Dream Theater!
Great post!! :tup I absolutely agree with you!
Thanks! And seriously, this band has been around so long they could've been content to just release the same types of albums and everyone would be happy. But they wanted to set an even higher bar for themselves and push things to an even higher new level. So brave. You gotta respect it. My respect for DT, which was crazy high to begin with, just exploded through the roof with this album. I can't believe they pulled this off.
See, for me I get why they went with a s/t record because it sounds like Dream Theater. But there in lies the problem for me - it's the opposite of your statement - I could find an past example of every part of this album in their back catalogue. I don't see anything new or brave, or any bars being raised.
Well, new is the music! The new album has new songs, new riffs, new melodies. Things we haven't heard it before.
Brave is the fact of having a self titled right NOW after a crisis like MP's leaving, it just gotta take balls to put a self tittled album based on what they had behind projecting what will it be in the future...
Just because it's new in terms of it's age, doesn't mean it's new in terms of it's originality.
And I agree that's it's brave to release a s/t album at this point in their career. It would be braver however to write something completely unique at this point in their career. And MP was a long time ago, there's no crisis anymore.
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One of my favorite vocal moments is in the bridge of TLG where James sings, "you are caught up in the gravity." SO beautiful. I get chills. :heart
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You want experimention? Look at Radiohead, Thrice, Porcupine Tree, Muse, Opeth, Nine Inch Nails, Amorphis, BTBAM, etc.
Wat. As much as I love them, they've basically released the same album 5 times in a row. :lol
But yes, experimental =/= good. If you're someone who really values experimentation then fair enough if this doesn't do it for you (although I still think there are some nice new tricks on this album), but a lot of the people who are complaining about the lack of experimentation seem to be people who love other bands/albums that are the same or worse in that regard.
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The album continues to grow on me, but I still lose focus toward the end. "Surrender to Reason" hasn't clicked at all yet, and I'm having trouble with the second half of "Illumination Theory". But the string of songs between "The Enigma Machine" and "Along for the Ride" have definitely become high points on the album for me.
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Second playthrough for me:
I'm really loving the album overall and I still think my least favorite song is Enemy Inside.
In my opinion ADTOE was a chance for the band to rebound with a tried and true formula and push another album out with a few memorable tracks then this album comes out and you can just FEEL the band is smiling and having a good time making every riff and sound on the album.
The end result makes me happy and it feels like the first time in about three albums that they've really pushed some boundaries with their sound and broke away from their norm.
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One of my favorite vocal moments is in the bridge of TLG where James sings, "you are caught up in the gravity." SO beautiful. I get chills. :heart
This. :hefdaddy
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Had this on repeat yesterday - but only listened to it about 3-4 times already - so take my points with that in mind!
* You can see EXACTLY why this was a self titled album. It is quintessential Dream Theater. Nearly every song I could refer back to a previous album - like SDOIT or Awake.
* Composition has improved significantly from ADTOE. Perhaps this is because I like artists taking a slight risk.... ADTOE was an enjoyable but *safe* album. This has experimentation scattered around the songs which is just magnificent.
* LaBrie just gets better and better. ADTOE was one of the best albums for him since SDOIT, this album has improved on that further.
* Ruddess' best album to date for sure. Melodically and technically.
* The mix feels better than previous albums but only time can tell that for sure.
The orchestra/string section in Illumination Theory. Wow. A particular highlight for me.
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Im about 5 listens in.....
1. False Awakening--- Amazing, not sure why some people dont like this. So solid from start to finish. 9/10
2. Enemy Inside-- Cohesive and catchy, just not my thing. Not a big straightforward metal guy. 5/10
3. Looking Glass-- I feel like 90's DT would have made this amazing and I would prefer a musical suite towards the end rather than a solo. Still a very good return to form song. 8/10
4. Enigma Machine- Cant remember anything about it after 5 listens... VERY dissapointing. 2/10
5. The Bigger Picture-- Solid song 7/10
6. Behind the Veil--- horrendous first verse, but pretty good overall and sounds like WDADU 6/10
7. Surrender to reason- Ugh... why the hype? This song just seems tiring to listen to. Hopefully it grows on me. 3/10
8. Along for the Ride- Best Song on the album. Just imagine if JLB could still sing... song would be incredible. A little cheesy but solid. 9/10
9. IT- Pretty awesome, has issues but pretty awesome. 9/10
Easter Egg- Beauiful, too bad they don't make music like this.
Is it just me or is it incredibly exhausting listening to this album? Maybe its the production or maybe its cringing EVERY time Labrie opens his mouth aside for a few parts . Man I used to love this guys voice in the 90's but its getting tough to stomach these days. When he sings with his chest he still sounds great. However, he usually elects to sing in that sinister annoying nasally voice now.
Overall this album will probably sit just a hair above Black clouds and ADTOE and way above Octavarium and SC. But considerably lower than everything else.
Still though... considering its been 25 years.... I am pretty happy.
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One first impression I had that has remained--and even grown--through repeated listens is that JP's choices for guitar effects, tone, and solos is quite varied and adventurous while still being recognizable as him. I really love that and think it is a great step forward for DT's sound!
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I hear a clear Red Barchetta feel during the solo in Surrender To Reason.
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I hear a clear Red Barchetta feel during the solo in Surrender To Reason.
Funny, I thought of Freewill with the chaotic solo in StR! :metal :tup
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One of my favorite vocal moments is in the bridge of TLG where James sings, "you are caught up in the gravity." SO beautiful. I get chills. :heart
This. :hefdaddy
Totally agree. But honestly, pretty much all of TLG's vocal moments are catchy and bring on the "good feels" chills.
As much as I loved ADTOE upon first impressions, I think I have more excitement over this album. :biggrin:
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Just to add... Labrie sounds amazing on the entire second half of IT after the orchestra.
That is the type of stuff that needs to be written for him.... maybe my distaste of his voice lately isnt all his fault.
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Just listened to The Bigger Picture, for the third time. This is a masterpiece.
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One first impression I had that has remained--and even grown--through repeated listens is that JP's choices for guitar effects, tone, and solos is quite varied and adventurous while still being recognizable as him. I really love that and think it is a great step forward for DT's sound!
That's the one thing that really stands out in the album. I might as well call it JP unleashed instead of MM (being a guitar enthusiast). JP has incredibly restrained himself from shred-fests here in this album (sections that I expected him to shred, were proven otherwise), and at the same time imo this is the first time since SFAM/SDOIT that his playing is full of nuances, both in the effects and technique. You can immediately see that he's trying to build upon his already extensive phrasing vocabulary in TLG, BTV and IT; looks like he's more into bluesy solos with whammy play compared to before. I'm really impressed. :hefdaddy
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Just listened to The Bigger Picture, for the third time. This is a masterpiece.
Does anyone else here think that The bigger picture has one of the best refrains in a DT song ever?
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Can anybody be so kind to share the timestamps for when the different sections begin in Illumination Theory? I'm a bit unsure.
Edit: Nevermind!
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Did anyone notice the volume of the guitar on certain parts of songs seems to decrease fast and dramatically? I don't have an exact time stamp part, but when the drums really pick up on parts of Behind the Veil it sounds like the guitar is really loud then it is like insta-half volume.
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Surrender To Reason is so fucking good. Best song on the album, IMHO. Not a dull part in the song and you can hear Myung throughout. :tup
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I know the first half of the album well by now, and I'm loving it. I'm still learning the second half, and haven't even attempted to tackle "Illumination Theory" yet! :lol
The one thing that jumps out about the album to me is how different each song is from the last. The first few songs go: Orchestral instrumental -> Beefy piece of metal -> Rush ballad -> Cartoony instrumental. It's really cool the amount of diversity here.
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Surrender To Reason is so fucking good. Best song on the album, IMHO. Not a dull part in the song and you can hear Myung throughout. :tup
My favorite so far although i love the entire disc... The "restless angels" section makes my eyes well up every time, happen to be listening to it just this moment. That part just hits me so deeply its crazy. Was funny yesterday I was like on my second listen and the tears were flowing bigtime and my wife happened to walk in and immediately she worriedly asked me what was wrong. I laughed and told her that I was just so moved by a new DT song that I couldn't help myself. She totally understood - she's awesome and can feel music the same way I do...
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The Looking Glass is pretty great. Loving that one thus far.
The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil and Surrender to Reason are all slowly growing on me.
Both instrumentals are pretty average. There isn't one memorable melody from Enigma Machine.
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Surrender To Reason is so fucking good. Best song on the album, IMHO. Not a dull part in the song and you can hear Myung throughout. :tup
My favorite so far although i love the entire disc... The "restless angels" section makes my eyes well up every time, happen to be listening to it just this moment. That part just hits me so deeply its crazy. Was funny yesterday I was like on my second listen and the tears were flowing bigtime and my wife happened to walk in and immediately she worriedly asked me what was wrong. I laughed and told her that I was just so moved by a new DT song that I couldn't help myself. She totally understood - she's awesome and can feel music the same way I do...
The guitar melody under the "Restless Angels" section is pure gold.
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Surrender To Reason is so fucking good. Best song on the album, IMHO. Not a dull part in the song and you can hear Myung throughout. :tup
My favorite so far although i love the entire disc... The "restless angels" section makes my eyes well up every time, happen to be listening to it just this moment. That part just hits me so deeply its crazy. Was funny yesterday I was like on my second listen and the tears were flowing bigtime and my wife happened to walk in and immediately she worriedly asked me what was wrong. I laughed and told her that I was just so moved by a new DT song that I couldn't help myself. She totally understood - she's awesome and can feel music the same way I do...
The guitar melody under the "Restless Angels" section is pure gold.
Totally agree, also what Mike and JMX are doing is awesome...
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Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?
The thing with Mangini's playing is that it is much more precise than MP's (IMO). There really isn't a single note he plays that doesn't reflect what one of the band members is playing. My problem with this is that it doesn't always leave room for MM to come up with his own unique parts. The counter to this is MM's drum parts in TLG or the beginning to IT, which are just plain awesome on every level. I'm sure there are more moments - problem is it'll take some time to reveal because the man can be so damn subtle!
Of course, I don't think its possible to come up with a drum part that is a good as the intro in The Great Debate ;D
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So far I'd say these are my personal song rankings:
Illumination Theory
Behind The Veil
The Looking Glass
The Bigger Picture
Enigma Machine
Surrender To Reason
False Awakening Suite
The Enemy Inside
Along For The Ride
I'm loving that these songs are shorter but are still kick ass tracks. I loved ADTOE, but nowadays, as much as I love the tracks, the lengths and the lack of dynamics in the production I tend to lose interest mid way through the track. With this album I think the way the songs are written in terms of song length I will already see myself having more longevity with this album, not to mention the energy the band just gives off with this album. This album clicks with me like no other new release out there.
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After my 2nd listen: Illumination Theory, The Looking Glass, Behind The Veil and The Bigger Picture are the ones that I liked, the other ones aren't clicking or are mediocre.
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Hey, DTF. I know the album stream is beyond awesome. But there is even more cool news coming very soon. SOON... :soon:
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Only heard The Looking Glass twice, and I'm wandering through the store completely unable to get it out of my head. I keep finding myself humming it...totally addictive song.
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Hey, DTF. I know the album stream is beyond awesome. But there is even more cool news coming very soon. SOON... :soon:
Whoa!! :omg: :tup
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Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?
The thing with Mangini's playing is that it is much more precise than MP's (IMO). There really isn't a single note he plays that doesn't reflect what one of the band members is playing. My problem with this is that it doesn't always leave room for MM to come up with his own unique parts. The counter to this is MM's drum parts in TLG or the beginning to IT, which are just plain awesome on every level. I'm sure there are more moments - problem is it'll take some time to reveal because the man can be so damn subtle!
Of course, I don't think its possible to come up with a drum part that is a good as the intro in The Great Debate ;D
Agreed, and it's one of the main things I'm looking for from MM. I think he's trying to be TOO technical. MP's best rhythms had this insane mix of progginess, heaviness, and air-drummingness that is pretty hard to match.
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Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?
Mangini's drum parts are not as interesting in my opinion. Take a basic rock beat and add speedy, ambidextrous flourishes that are often in unison with the other members and you have a Mangini drum part.
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Hey, DTF. I know the album stream is beyond awesome. But there is even more cool news coming very soon. SOON... :soon:
North American tour dates hopefully...
Finished my work week, got all my personal stuff done. Time to lose myself in the album. Later guys.... :metal :metal :metal
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Does anyone else feel that DT12 has a more upbeat/relaxed feel on all songs - I mean MUCH more relaxed than ADTOE? I think ADTOE was a make-or-break kinda record, so that tension probably reflected on the overall feel of the album. This time it seems the guys were much more relaxed and genuinely happy to be with each other, even more so than in the previous album, where they might still be adjusting to the fact that they had a newcomer in the band.
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Hey, DTF. I know the album stream is beyond awesome. But there is even more cool news coming very soon. SOON... :soon:
North American tour dates hopefully...
Your mileage may vary, but in my personal opinion, even better than that.
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Hey, DTF. I know the album stream is beyond awesome. But there is even more cool news coming very soon. SOON... :soon:
North American tour dates hopefully...
I'm 99% sure it's not that.
I'm guessing it's the JP Q&A that has been hinted at.
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Intergalactic tour dates then.
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Excited for that news....
Anyway I've listened to this album once, not enough to form an opinion, but so far I think it's pretty good. Still feels like they are recycling old ideas, but I'm sure i'll like it better after a couple more listens.
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Intergalactic tour dates then.
(https://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i238/hefdaddy42/funny/vaderesbmetal.jpg)
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Intergalactic tour dates then.
Tour dates on Xanadu?
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Hey, DTF. I know the album stream is beyond awesome. But there is even more cool news coming very soon. SOON... :soon:
Are you in on pretty much everything?
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Every box set edition gets a DT ticket for life!
just kidding. haha.
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Hey, DTF. I know the album stream is beyond awesome. But there is even more cool news coming very soon. SOON... :soon:
North American tour dates hopefully...
Your mileage may vary, but in my personal opinion, even better than that.
Based on that post my money is on the surprise being a tour with no opening acts for Dream Theater a.k.a An Evening With :D
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I hope you guys hear that the seemingly out-of-place strings an orchestra section in Illumination Theory is first introduced in the very beginning of the song (and small hints, here and there, lasting seconds).
It's done much better than in, say, Ministry Of Lost Souls.
I'll also say that an "epic" like this doesn't have to conform to what A Change Of Seasons is like. I get the desire to have it "flow" and work together, and I agree with that, but I for one find that IT flows together fairly well, when taken for what it is in the context of today and the album.
What a great album. I predict that it will move ahead of 6DOIT in terms of long-term repeat listens. This album so far offers more possibility for growing on me than 6DOIT has ever done. Naturally, only time will tell but only 3 other albums had me instantly hooked and gushing (the "Holy Trinity" of I&W, Awake, SFAM). That says a lot.
Not "better than" the Holy Trinity but certainly top 5.
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New member here.... Haven't had a chance to listen to the stream yet (may wait for the official release), but got one question for those who have:
Alot of posts reference the great melodies and choruses: would folks say the songs are similar to ADOTE in that regard?
Bridges in the Sky and Breaking all Illusions are great examples of this, IMO. Hoping to hear more of the same on this album.
Thanks!
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Alot of posts reference the great melodies and choruses: would folks say the songs are similar to ADOTE in that regard?
Bridges in the Sky and Breaking all Illusions are great examples of this, IMO. Hoping to hear more of the same on this album.
While I think BAI is a better chorus than most, I would say the choruses definitely follow in the footsteps of Bridges and Outcry -- very "soaring", very simple. I'm actually NOT fan of these, but I hope you enjoy them.
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New member here.... Haven't had a chance to listen to the stream yet (may wait for the official release), but got one question for those who have:
Alot of posts reference the great melodies and choruses: would folks say the songs are similar to ADOTE in that regard?
Bridges in the Sky and Breaking all Illusions are great examples of this, IMO. Hoping to hear more of the same on this album.
Thanks!
I would say no. I would say it's better, and more concise.
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Well, having digested all the songs now 6 times, I have to say that I am disappointed. Having been a fan since WDADU (thanks to the legendary Tommy Vance's Friday Rock Show which championed DT right from the start) it hurts me to have to say that :(
I rate each song as follows (together with any comments I feel appropriate):-
1) False Awakening Suite 8/10 - like this a lot, but should it really be called a suite at just 2 mins 42 secs long?
2) The Enemy Inside 7.5/10 - this is the song that has improved the most to my ears, upon repeated listen
3) The Looking Glass 3/10 - dire, boring and basically a Rush copy (but then again I really don't like Rush!)
4) Enigma Machine 5.5/10 - disappointing and unmemorable instrumental, arguably their worst ever I.M.O.
5) The Bigger Picture 6.5/10 - again another one that has grown on me, but nothing special
6) Behind The Veil 8.5/10 - the only song that REALLY hit me upon first listen
7) Surrender To Reason - 7/10 - Nice song.
8) Along For The Ride - 7/10 - another grower although still don't like JR's key solo at all
9) Illumination Theory - 7.5/10 - weirdly I liked this more upon first listen to now, although it does have a very 8v type ending, which I enjoyed.
Overall mark would probably be a 7/10
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Hey, DTF. I know the album stream is beyond awesome. But there is even more cool news coming very soon. SOON... :soon:
North American tour dates hopefully...
Your mileage may vary, but in my personal opinion, even better than that.
They're gonna name me their tour chef!!! :omg: :omg: :omg:
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New member here.... Haven't had a chance to listen to the stream yet (may wait for the official release), but got one question for those who have:
Alot of posts reference the great melodies and choruses: would folks say the songs are similar to ADOTE in that regard?
Bridges in the Sky and Breaking all Illusions are great examples of this, IMO. Hoping to hear more of the same on this album.
Thanks!
Just my opinion, I think the great melodies and choruses are here on DT12, but maybe not as immediately apparent - on my first listen thru I got kind of lost thru the middle batch of songs (not that they weren't great, just that there is a lot to absorb) - but on subsequent listens, WOW did they grab me. So much emotion.
I think something different here is that rather than repeating the same individual parts over and over for the verses and choruses, the songs truly "progress" and maybe that is why it takes a while for some people to catch on.
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New member here.... Haven't had a chance to listen to the stream yet (may wait for the official release), but got one question for those who have:
Alot of posts reference the great melodies and choruses: would folks say the songs are similar to ADOTE in that regard?
Bridges in the Sky and Breaking all Illusions are great examples of this, IMO. Hoping to hear more of the same on this album.
Thanks!
Welcome to the forum.
To answer your question, the melodies are mostly on par or better than BITS or BAI from ADTOE. They really took their "awesome chorus" pills for this album. The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil, and Surrender To Reason have great choruses and the others are fairly good as well.
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Thanks for the insight, appreciate it...cant wait to delve into this album. And look forward to discussion and debate... seems like a great board! - Greg
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I think JP really shines with his guitar work on this album. Lots of cool riffs, background stuff, lead melodies, solos and more. Lots of cool nuggetz to find. BtV solo is awesome.
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Welcome to the forum.
To answer your question, the melodies are mostly on par or better than BITS or BAI from ADTOE. They really took their "awesome chorus" pills for this album. The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil, and Surrender To Reason have great choruses and the others are fairly good as well.
That's exactly the section i was talking about, and yes they are awesome :)
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Thanks for the insight, appreciate it...cant wait to delve into this album. And look forward to discussion and debate... seems like a great board! - Greg
It is, welcome to DTF bud!!!
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New member here.... Haven't had a chance to listen to the stream yet (may wait for the official release), but got one question for those who have:
Alot of posts reference the great melodies and choruses: would folks say the songs are similar to ADOTE in that regard?
Bridges in the Sky and Breaking all Illusions are great examples of this, IMO. Hoping to hear more of the same on this album.
Thanks!
Welcome to the forum.
To answer your question, the melodies are mostly on par or better than BITS or BAI from ADTOE. They really took their "awesome chorus" pills for this album. The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil, and Surrender To Reason have great choruses and the others are fairly good as well.
Thanks! All about those "awesome choruses"
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That orchestra section in IT... I'm pretty sure that can't be legal. It can't be legal to make something that beautiful.
Edit: AND the outro! "In order to feel the joy in life, you must suffer through the pain"... is that the lyric?
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Thanks for the insight, appreciate it...cant wait to delve into this album. And look forward to discussion and debate... seems like a great board! - Greg
It is, welcome to DTF bud!!!
Thanks man!
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Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?
The thing with Mangini's playing is that it is much more precise than MP's (IMO). There really isn't a single note he plays that doesn't reflect what one of the band members is playing. My problem with this is that it doesn't always leave room for MM to come up with his own unique parts. The counter to this is MM's drum parts in TLG or the beginning to IT, which are just plain awesome on every level. I'm sure there are more moments - problem is it'll take some time to reveal because the man can be so damn subtle!
Of course, I don't think its possible to come up with a drum part that is a good as the intro in The Great Debate ;D
Agreed, and it's one of the main things I'm looking for from MM. I think he's trying to be TOO technical. MP's best rhythms had this insane mix of progginess, heaviness, and air-drummingness that is pretty hard to match.
Don't get me wrong though, I am really pleased with MM on this album. I think he's done an awesome job, and I'm already air drumming like a madman.
Also, that huge fill in IT before the vocals come in is SO GOOD. Does anyone else get reminded of Satellite 15... The Final Frontier at that point?
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That orchestra section in IT... I'm pretty sure that can't be legal. It can't be legal to make something that beautiful.
Edit: AND the outro! "In order to feel the joy in life, you must suffer through the pain"... is that the lyric?
"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain"
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Hey, DTF. I know the album stream is beyond awesome. But there is even more cool news coming very soon. SOON... :soon:
North American tour dates hopefully...
Your mileage may vary, but in my personal opinion, even better than that.
They're gonna name me their tour chef!!! :omg: :omg: :omg:
I hope it's a pre-order of the Making of DT12 DVD. Would love to see that.
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"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain"
Thanks Zydar! Such pretty lyrics.
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I hope it's a pre-order of the Making of DT12 DVD. Would love to see that.
Now THAT would be incredible!
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That orchestra section in IT... I'm pretty sure that can't be legal. It can't be legal to make something that beautiful.
Edit: AND the outro! "In order to feel the joy in life, you must suffer through the pain"... is that the lyric?
"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain"
Great lyrics!
Sidenote: I know some have been "complaining" about the lyrics and their religious/spiritual overtones... I may be biased given the fact that I am a spiritual person, but coming from an objective frame-of-mind, the lyrics certainly have broader applications than a simple "faith-based" pigeonhole. Also, they're extremely catchy and thoughtful as well! There is a depth to them that makes these grand-sounding songs soar even further! I am caught up in the gravity of the new album... :neverusethis:
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Sidenote: I know some have been "complaining" about the lyrics and their religious/spiritual overtones... I may be biased given the fact that I am a spiritual person, but coming from an objective frame-of-mind, the lyrics certainly have broader applications than a simple "faith-based" pigeonhole. Also, they're extremely catchy and thoughtful as well! There is a depth to them that makes these grand-sounding songs soar even further! I am caught up in the gravity of the new album... :neverusethis:
...are you me? :lol I literally just said this in the other thread.
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My god. Illumination Theory may end up being my favorite song DT has ever done. Stunning from beginning to end. What a
ride. I've heard it 10+ times and each time my goosebumps get bigger.
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Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?
Mangini's drum parts are not as interesting in my opinion. Take a basic rock beat and add speedy, ambidextrous flourishes that are often in unison with the other members and you have a Mangini drum part.
That's what I was afraid of :sad:.
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the amount of nasty riffs in the first 4 minutes of IT alone is CRAZY
seems like everyone is hung up on the length or the middle section and not even mentioning that beginning
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What in the world is James saying during the high verse in the middle of IT? Right after "a junkie for the high"?
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Big news eh?
Maybe Awake in it's entirety for the first set and all of DT12 in the 2nd set?
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What in the world is James saying during the high verse in the middle of IT? Right after "a junkie for the high"?
"A soldier for his country
A junkie for the high
Teachers for their students
Vengeance for a crime
Rebels for their freedom
A tyrant for the prize
Courage for salvation
Money, love, and faith"
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...are you me? :lol I literally just said this in the other thread.
Great minds! :tup
Glad someone else shares my opinion :biggrin:
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Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?
Mangini's drum parts are not as interesting in my opinion. Take a basic rock beat and add speedy, ambidextrous flourishes that are often in unison with the other members and you have a Mangini drum part.
I disagree. I mean, listen to some of the drums in TLG. They are great! Reminds me of some of the stuff in Innocence Faded. And when he adds his unison parts to a more basic rhythm, it immediately becomes much more than a basic rock beat. It makes it very interesting indeed.
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Hey, DTF. I know the album stream is beyond awesome. But there is even more cool news coming very soon. SOON... :soon:
...as in December. :\
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What in the world is James saying during the high verse in the middle of IT? Right after "a junkie for the high"?
"A soldier for his country
A junkie for the high
Teachers for their students
Vengeance for a crime
Rebels for their freedom
A tyrant for the prize
Courage for salvation
Money, love, and faith"
That's it. And it's "martyrs for the kingdom" in the earlier verse, right?
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What in the world is James saying during the high verse in the middle of IT? Right after "a junkie for the high"?
"A soldier for his country
A junkie for the high
Teachers for their students
Vengeance for a crime
Rebels for their freedom
A tyrant for the prize
Courage for salvation
Money, love, and faith"
That's it. And it's "martyrs for the kingdom" in the earlier verse, right?
Yup!
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Big news eh?
Maybe Awake in it's entirety for the first set and all of DT12 in the 2nd set?
Haha, I doubt it. What good reason do they have for playing Awake in its entirety? Everything is about DT12 now.
Actually, I see that if they do an Evening With format, DT12 would be a good first set. Illumination Theory is just an odd concert closer.
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...are you me? :lol I literally just said this in the other thread.
Great minds! :tup
Glad someone else shares my opinion :biggrin:
I also share the same opinion about the lyrics even though I am not a big fan of the album just yet.
With lyrics in rock metal songs increasingly becoming more negative it is refreshing to see and hear upbeat lyrics. I think the lyrics on the album are good quality. Just not a huge fan of many of the songs.
Anyway....if people have problems with spiritual,religious lyrics....they don't have to be interpreted that way. Just interpret them as being positive in life. Don't know why people have a problem with upbeat lyrics but are more cool with lyrics about murder, death, destruction, or hate. (I listen to stuff like Megadeth, Slayer, Pantera also and I get the style of music fits the lyrics for those bands) Anyway, I commend DT for putting out positive lyrics)
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Rebels for their freedom
A tyrant for the prize
Courage for salvation
Money, love, and faith"
It's "Cowards for salvation".
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The big news might be that they are bringing a mini-orchestra with them on tour, ala Rush on the Clockwork Angels tour. I could see it, given how much the orchestra is featured on the new album. Plus, assuming they play Illumination Theory, having that middle section played live would be pretty cool, as opposed to it being triggered or Rudess doing it all on his keys live. Imagine them ending one set with Illumination Theory and the other set with Octavarium. :eek :eek :eek
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The big news might be that they are bringing a mini-orchestra with them on tour, ala Rush on the Clockwork Angels tour. I could see it, given how much the orchestra is featured on the new album. Plus, assuming they play Illumination Theory, having that middle section played live would be pretty cool, as opposed to it being triggered or Rudess doing it all on his keys live. Imagine them ending one set with Illumination Theory and the other set with Octavarium. :eek :eek :eek
This would indeed be awesome! I had the chance to see Rush on that tour and it was amazing!
Also, DT, please feel free to release a making-of for this album! Thanks!
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Big news eh?
Maybe Awake in it's entirety for the first set and all of DT12 in the 2nd set?
Haha, I doubt it. What good reason do they have for playing Awake in its entirety? Everything is about DT12 now.
Actually, I see that if they do an Evening With format, DT12 would be a good first set. Illumination Theory is just an odd concert closer.
It is Awake's twentieth anniversary next year, but I think a celebration of SFAM's 15th is more likely. But neither is going to be a regular part of the set.
I reckon every DT12 song will be played at each show, but not the album from front to back (at least not every night). It'll be spread out across the show I think.
And 'Evening With' has been confirmed, in case you hadn't seen.
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I would love to see all of DT12 in the first set and all of Awake in the last, yes with SDV!
I probably shouldn't get my hopes up though
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I love the speculation. :biggrin:
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The solo section in Behind The Veil is gold, especially Jordan's solo. So awesome.
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The big news might be that they are bringing a mini-orchestra with them on tour, ala Rush on the Clockwork Angels tour. I could see it, given how much the orchestra is featured on the new album. Plus, assuming they play Illumination Theory, having that middle section played live would be pretty cool, as opposed to it being triggered or Rudess doing it all on his keys live. Imagine them ending one set with Illumination Theory and the other set with Octavarium. :eek :eek :eek
Rudess said a few months ago that he forgot how awesome Octavarium is. This theory of yours might be onto something.
*Crosses fingers*
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My show prediction...with orchestra... Small first set of various songs, DT12 for the second set, Octavarium for the encore....
Then figure out somehow how to get me back to life, cause that set would literally kill me.
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Well, Octavarium and Illumination Theory both feature a real orchestra, so it would make sense to play both if they were gonna tour with a mini-orchestra or something. Playing two 20-minute songs every night would be quite the choir, though.
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My show prediction...with orchestra... Small first set of various songs, DT12 for the second set, Octavarium for the encore....
Then figure out somehow how to get me back to life, cause that set would literally kill me.
Or figure out why it would be worth living after the concert, because you would have no more goals to live for.
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I'd think the orchestra would be a break/tape instead of JR trying to play it. But JR playing it could give it a unique sound.....
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I'd think the orchestra would be a break/tape instead of JR trying to play it. But JR playing it could give it a unique sound.....
Eh, I'd rather he not. It would come off as too fake and plastic-y sounding, for lack of a better term, like much of 6DOIT's Overture does.
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Well, Octavarium and Illumination Theory both feature a real orchestra, so it would make sense to play both if they were gonna tour with a mini-orchestra or something. Playing two 20-minute songs every night would be quite the choir, though.
Both songs have sections where there isn't much going on, so I don't think it would be too much of a burden on the DT guys. IT has that middle 'break' section and Octavarium has the beginning where its just JR jamming and then a few minutes of very tamed playing from the rest of the guys before the song moves to the third movement.
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My show prediction...with orchestra... Small first set of various songs, DT12 for the second set, Octavarium for the encore....
Then figure out somehow how to get me back to life, cause that set would literally kill me.
Or figure out why it would be worth living after the concert, because you would have no more goals to live for.
Not true, I still have to see Cal play in the Rose Bowl. That alone should ensure a long life...
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Im sure this has been said before but The Looking Glass apart from the heavy Rush influence reminds me so much of the FII era tracks. Everytime I hear it I cant help but think of Raise the Knife, Dont look past me, Where Are you now? and of course Trial of tears. Such an uplifting song.
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People who don't like FAS: Imagine this song in a live setting, lights go out and this tune immediately blasts out from the PA's. Hell, that's gonna be an amazing experience.
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People who don't like FAS: Imagine this song in a live setting, lights go out and this tune immediately blasts out from the PA's. Hell, that's gonna be an amazing experience.
Its not really even a song. Its entire purpose is to serve at the concert opener before the band hits the stage and in that capacity, the Suite works incredibly well.
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My show prediction...with orchestra... Small first set of various songs, DT12 for the second set, Octavarium for the encore....
Then figure out somehow how to get me back to life, cause that set would literally kill me.
Or figure out why it would be worth living after the concert, because you would have no more goals to live for.
Guys guys guys stop talking about Dream Theater touring with an orchestra. My heart can't take this! :faint:
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BtV solo is awesome.
More thumbs up for BtV solo, it's so awesome, and I just love when he does that short sweep during the chorus after the solo :metal
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i want my boxset now pls
when i got the BC&SL box it came like 6 days early. hoping that'll happen again
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Yeah, I checked my order, and it's shipped, I'd love to get my record a few days early :laugh:
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BtV solo is awesome.
More thumbs up for BtV solo, it's so awesome, and I just love when he does that short sweep during the chorus after the solo :metal
I love Jordan's solo in that instrumental section. Sounds fucking sick over the underlying riff.
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News? :O
It gotta be something tour-related. Touring with a small orchestra would make sense, sound wise. They don't want to play the whole IT section on a tape or with patches.
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Yea, 6DOIT's overture was mostly a tape (except Score), so that's also in my theory.
Save the orchestra for the Along For The Ride concert DVD :)
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I think this is a good record. I wasn't floored by ADToE, although I thought it was a step in the right direction. DT '13 is another step, more like a leap up. It's more accessible, it sounds a little more inspired and the long songs don't actually sound long for the sake of being long. Illumination Theory is downright amazing.
That said, I'm sorta laughing at myself with one of my biggest criticisms of the record. I am the guy that for years has said that james labrie sounds best when he's allowed to sing in his comfort zone. And on ADToE and his last few solo albums he has. So it's sorta ironic that I now criticize him for doing it again on DT'13. But I am.
He's not doing anything out of his comfort range. He's not stretching high or going real low. And while James sounds great (he really does), his performance isn't dynamic, range-wise, which is bothering me. Ray Alder does a similar thing on the new Fates Warning. Great performance, but not rangy AT ALL. Right in the same area for the entire record.
So that bothers me.
But Jordan has tamed his circus act keyboards quite a bit, which is good to my ears. I know people love his whole carnival tone, but it grates on me like nails on a chalkboard. And much of that is removed from this album, thankfully.
Anyway, I'm encouraged by this release. I don't think they tackle any new ground musically, but I guess that can't really be expected from a band that has been around for 30 years. They've found a formula that works and are sticking to it. And it sounds good, if a little tried and true.
Good record. Just finishing my third and final listen until the CD gets here. Looking forward to seeing these tunes live. The Enemy Inside is also much better than I remembered it at first listen. :tup
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He's not doing anything out of his comfort range. He's not stretching high or going real low. And while James sounds great (he really does), his performance isn't dynamic, range-wise, which is bothering me. Ray Alder does a similar thing on the new Fates Warning. Great performance, but not rangy AT ALL. Right in the same area for the entire record.
Not to sound rude, but did you hear that one section of IT? :huh:
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He's not doing anything out of his comfort range. He's not stretching high or going real low. And while James sounds great (he really does), his performance isn't dynamic, range-wise, which is bothering me. Ray Alder does a similar thing on the new Fates Warning. Great performance, but not rangy AT ALL. Right in the same area for the entire record.
Not to sound rude, but did you hear that one section of IT? :huh:
Listen from 11:00 onward on IT... JLB slays the vocals. Hearing him get that high, dynamic, and passionate is truly awesome!
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I'm really loving the run of songs from Enigma Machine through to Surrender to Reason - such great stuff.
And then of course IT is amazing.
Those are the highlights for me at the moment, but it's all good!
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Popping in with another random observation that I had initially. The lead tones between JR and JP on Enigma Machine are very well matched and complimentary. Since this is nearly the only trade-off solo section in the album, please note that I said nearly, I find their choice very satisfying.
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I'm really loving the run of songs from Enigma Machine through to Surrender to Reason - such great stuff.
And then of course IT is amazing.
Those are the highlights for me at the moment, but it's all good!
That must be 80% of the album! :tup
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I'm really loving the run of songs from Enigma Machine through to Surrender to Reason - such great stuff.
Yup, although I'd add Along For The Ride there too. I'm a big fan in context of the album.
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Popping in with another random observation that I had initially. The lead tones between JR and JP on Enigma Machine are very well matched and complimentary. Since this is nearly the only trade-off solo section in the album, please note that I said nearly, I find their choice very satisfying.
Just two on the album - in that song and then in Illumination Theory.
Interestingly, the same number of trade-offs as on BC&SL (one in ANTR and one in AROP) where people complained they were sick of DT over-using trade-offs. :lol
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I'm really loving the run of songs from Enigma Machine through to Surrender to Reason - such great stuff.
And then of course IT is amazing.
Those are the highlights for me at the moment, but it's all good!
That must be 80% of the album! :tup
Ok, good point. :lol I guess that must make this a rather good album!
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He's not doing anything out of his comfort range. He's not stretching high or going real low. And while James sounds great (he really does), his performance isn't dynamic, range-wise, which is bothering me. Ray Alder does a similar thing on the new Fates Warning. Great performance, but not rangy AT ALL. Right in the same area for the entire record.
Not to sound rude, but did you hear that one section of IT? :huh:
That would be the exception that proves the rule.
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He's not doing anything out of his comfort range. He's not stretching high or going real low. And while James sounds great (he really does), his performance isn't dynamic, range-wise, which is bothering me. Ray Alder does a similar thing on the new Fates Warning. Great performance, but not rangy AT ALL. Right in the same area for the entire record.
Not to sound rude, but did you hear that one section of IT? :huh:
That would be the exception that proves the rule.
Ah. I'm sorry people feel that way. :\ I think he sounds amazing on this album, imo.
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The big news might be that they are bringing a mini-orchestra with them on tour, ala Rush on the Clockwork Angels tour. I could see it, given how much the orchestra is featured on the new album. Plus, assuming they play Illumination Theory, having that middle section played live would be pretty cool, as opposed to it being triggered or Rudess doing it all on his keys live. Imagine them ending one set with Illumination Theory and the other set with Octavarium. :eek :eek :eek
Those of you who are thinking that the news could have something to do with them touring with an orchestra, I'm sorry to say this but I asked John (Petrucci) if "Eren and the string section would be 'Along For The Ride'" and his answer was (not an identical quote but it's pretty accurate at least): "That's a very good question. I think it would be very cool to do something like that for a special event or something but Eren's still in school and besides... actually touring with an orchestra would be really expensive. You know, we would have to feed them and stuff..." :lol
He obviously said it jokingly, especially that last part, but I couldn't interpret his answer any other way than that they had no such plans.
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I'm really loving the run of songs from Enigma Machine through to Surrender to Reason - such great stuff.
And then of course IT is amazing.
Those are the highlights for me at the moment, but it's all good!
That must be 80% of the album! :tup
Ok, good point. :lol I guess that must make this a rather good album!
I mistakenly thought Looking Glass was included in that run so perhaps not 80%. Please forgive my playing fast and free with percentiles. :)
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Not to sound rude, but did you hear that one section of IT? :huh:
Listen from 11:00 onward on IT... JLB slays the vocals. Hearing him get that high, dynamic, and passionate is truly awesome!
I have. Three times. That's not that high, and he almost cracks at one point. Cool he put a little grit in it, and yes, it gives it some dynamics, but that's really not enough.
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I imagine if they did have the orchestra, it would only be for one big event where they record it for a Live DVD or something, it's just way too expensive to have one travel and it's a logistical nightmare to find one locally around every venue to play. So, I think that idea is probably too good to be true.
Back to the album, does anyone else like TEI more now that they've heard the album? It was just a so-so run of the mill DT tune after I first heard it, but after hearing it in the context of the rest of the album, it's kicking my ass. One of the better songs on the album and not because the rest of the album is weak, I just like TEI a lot more now.
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his answer was (not an identical quote but it's pretty accurate at least): "That's a very good question. I think it would be very cool to do something like that for a special event or something but Eren's still in school and besides... actually touring with an orchestra would be really expensive. You know, we would have to feed them to me and stuff..." :lol
He obviously said it jokingly, especially that last part, but I couldn't interpret his answer any other way than that they had no such plans.
Man, you forgot the most important bit of the conversation. :D
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Ah. I'm sorry people feel that way. :\ I think he sounds amazing on this album, imo.
He sounds good. He's in his comfort zone. Speaking for myself, I never said James sounded anything but good. But his voice isn't very dynamic on the record. No real highs, no real lows, and this has been the second DT record in a row and fifth if you count the last three solo records, where he's been about the same area, vocally.
Nothing that really stretches him in either direction. He sounds great, but not very dynamic.
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Illumination Theory...I like the 2nd half a lot.
But everybody lauding this song: do you like that first verse? Because I think it is terrible.
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Back to the album, does anyone else like TEI more now that they've heard the album?
Me. I really dig the tune now.
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I must say....
You're all making it very hard for me to resist listening to IT... It's the one track I haven't heard and intend to wait til next week to listen to. I don't think I've heard so much praise for any DT song, ever. :caffeine:
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re: orchestra live....that's what I thought. Even if they had an orchestra, would JR do the sound effect break live?
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Illumination Theory...I like the 2nd half a lot.
But everybody lauding this song: do you like that first verse? Because I think it is terrible.
The "consider this question" verse? I love it, it's got such a great groove and really sticks with me.
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The part in Enigma Machine where the music suddenly gets very slow, definitely reminds of a similar section in YYZ by Rush as well as the section leading up to the volume swells in TCOT. Still not similar enough to consider it a ripoff, but definitely gave me that vibe.
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Okay, I promised news. Here you go: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=39047.0
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This album is absolutely fantastic IMHO. Every listen brings new things to enjoy: like that "jazz fusion piano" thing that JR does in IT.. or that bass line during the guitar solo in Surrender to Reason...great, great stuff. I remember being 14 and discovering Dream Theater just when Awake was released (this really dates me). Since that moment I've been expecting religiously single every DT release. I remember vividely being blown away by ACOS, not so much by FII. Being really pleased and borderline obsessive with SFAM, and so on. By the time Octavarium came out I guess my taste in music changed a bit and I was into other things musically. I listened to it, but it wasn't the same for me. I didn't like the obvious Muse influence, band that I adored right at that time. I felt for the first time that a DT album had filler songs. I felt that they had a job to do, an album + big tour cycle every two years. Consequently with every release after that I was like..meh :-\.
Still bought every album, dvd and even quite a few ytsejam bottlegs; Still remained a big fan but that initial excitement was somehow gone. I really hit a low point in my relationship with DT when BCASL was released. ADTOE brought some of it back, but this baby here of an album had me travelling through time and recreate that excitement and giddiness that I had before.
This album makes me happy, that's it. I'm happy to see them inspired, to see that Mangini is the drummer they needed after MP left; happy to witness how JP just keeps becoming a bigger monster on the guitar with every album. Happy to see JR becoming a real sonic backbone and stay away sometimes from those 1000000 notes per minute that he used so much before. Happy to still have an amazing band sounding very focused and cohesive putting such epic songs.
These are great times :metal.
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Okay, I promised news. Here you go: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=39047.0
:metal
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The IT easter egg just reminded me of this in a good way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBUb7b0DjNM
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I just realized how best to describe my feelings about the album: I don't actually think any of the music is bad; it holds together...in a very improvised way. But part of that haphazardness and lack of truly standout moments (IT orchestral section excepted) means the whole album just kinda blurs together. I put it on from the beginning, I listen to the music for 70 or so minutes, and before I know it I'm already at the last track. The whole rest of the album is basically like white noise to me.
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Well for me, it goes by pretty fast too, but so does Images & Words, and I think that makes it even stronger, because I just want to put it right back on and dive into it.
My 2 cents at least :P
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People who don't like FAS: Imagine this song in a live setting, lights go out and this tune immediately blasts out from the PA's. Hell, that's gonna be an amazing experience.
Oh, I don't doubt it; it's just not doing anything for me in the context of this new record.
The big news might be that they are bringing a mini-orchestra with them on tour, ala Rush on the Clockwork Angels tour. I could see it, given how much the orchestra is featured on the new album. Plus, assuming they play Illumination Theory, having that middle section played live would be pretty cool, as opposed to it being triggered or Rudess doing it all on his keys live. Imagine them ending one set with Illumination Theory and the other set with Octavarium. :eek :eek :eek
Those of you who are thinking that the news could have something to do with them touring with an orchestra, I'm sorry to say this but I asked John (Petrucci) if "Eren and the string section would be 'Along For The Ride'" and his answer was (not an identical quote but it's pretty accurate at least): "That's a very good question. I think it would be very cool to do something like that for a special event or something but Eren's still in school and besides... actually touring with an orchestra would be really expensive. You know, we would have to feed them and stuff..." :lol
He obviously said it jokingly, especially that last part, but I couldn't interpret his answer any other way than that they had no such plans.
Agreed. Oh well, it was nice to dream there for a few... :lol
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Update: I'm still loving the album. Don't know if it will stand the test of time, but as of know, I'm happy.
EDIT: Am I the only one getting strong Count of Tuscany vibes from 3:42 of Enigma Machine?
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Does anybody else hear a weird phasing effect on James's voice at times? Seems like a possible side-effect of pitch correction, but I'm not sure.
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I thought something was funny on the soundcloud stream comment section... at :42 of Enigma Machine, "DON'T CROSS THE CROOKED STEP"
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Funny as most albums they have to grow on you. Having been a Rush fan since 1977 it took me forever to get into their new albums. They were just so different and so much to hear it takes many many spins. GUP is one of my fave albums by Rush and it took me forever to really appreciate it, like years. Always loved it but never understood the complexity of it until I learned most of the songs on guitar. SNA is another one that took me forever to get and realize there's some great work on there. I didn't see it until I watched the documentary.
Just like this album, it's going to take many many spins to grasp it. Once again I have no complaints. I love everything I hear so far, but I need to get deeper into it and use some headphones I think. It's funny how DT fans want to say "this sounds like that band or this band". I never heard a Rush fan do that, even though Rush has just as many influences. It is what it is, I've never liked Yes, SX or other so called sound alikes. What I hear is Dream Theater first and foremost! :metal
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Does anybody else hear a weird phasing effect on James's voice at times? Seems like a possible side-effect of pitch correction, but I'm not sure.
It could be the stream.
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Well for me, it goes by pretty fast too, but so does Images & Words, and I think that makes it even stronger, because I just want to put it right back on and dive into it.
My 2 cents at least :P
It's a hell of a ride.
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Great quote by Dave_Manchester at MP.com
Everybody has a different g-spot when it comes to music, but this album is exactly the kind of music which massages mine...
:slowclap:
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:rollin :rollin :rollin
On my 4th play-through now and enjoy it more each time. Enigma Machine has finally clicked for me too !! :metal
Reminds me of when DT instrumental sections were a lot of fun before they turned into forumlaic.
Also the album on the whole reminds me of why I loved DT in the first place on albums like SFAM and Octavarium.
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Does anybody else think that IT from around 15:15 till the end may end up being the most beautiful piece of music ever written by DT?
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The Bigger Picture is so sad! :(
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Wow, I just listened to the album with my headphones on a different computer and it sounds amazing!
I totally take back what I said about JLB on this album... he actually sounds fantastic.
Also, enigma machine is starting to click a bit.
This album is a grower and not a shower folks..... that may be the best compliment I can give to this album.
Starting to rise up the ranks quickly for me!
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Does anybody else think that IT from around 15:15 till the end may end up being the most beautiful piece of music ever written by DT?
Maybe not the best, but very close to me.
I'm loving Enigma Machine so much and I can't stop singing "someone save me, look behind the veil" :biggrin:
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Does anybody else hear a weird phasing effect on James's voice at times? Seems like a possible side-effect of pitch correction, but I'm not sure.
So far the fx I've heard have been deliberate, but that doesn't mean I'm hearing the same parts as you. This is the most fx laden disc probably since Awake. I love it :D
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Does anybody else think that IT from around 15:15 till the end may end up being the most beautiful piece of music ever written by DT?
Maybe not the best, but very close to me.
I'm loving Enigma Machine so much and I can't stop singing "someone save me, look behind the veil" :biggrin:
Me too!
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I just realized how best to describe my feelings about the album: I don't actually think any of the music is bad; it holds together...in a very improvised way. But part of that haphazardness and lack of truly standout moments (IT orchestral section excepted) means the whole album just kinda blurs together. I put it on from the beginning, I listen to the music for 70 or so minutes, and before I know it I'm already at the last track. The whole rest of the album is basically like white noise to me.
I have a similar problem and I think it's mainly due to the loudness. I tend to lose concentration a lot while listening to it, a lot more than with other albums. I'm very certain that the constant wall of sound I'm exposed to makes my mind drift away.
Am I the only one getting strong Count of Tuscany vibes from 3:42 of Enigma Machine?
No, that's deliberate, just like the Octavarium vibe at 18:12 of Illumination Theory.
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Surrender To Reason is the Breaking All Illusions of this album for me.
Good - but my least favourite from each respective album.
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Update: I'm still loving the album. Don't know if it will stand the test of time, but as of know, I'm happy.
EDIT: Am I the only one getting strong Count of Tuscany vibes from 3:42 of Enigma Machine?
It's the same exact thing. If you didn't I'd be concerned.
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catching on to some of the awesome stuff Mangini brings to the table - the drum fill in IT at 15:50 where he just smacks the bejeesuz out of the octabons or whatever those are - it just feeds into the next part so magnificently... :hefdaddy
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catching on to some of the awesome stuff Mangini brings to the table - the drum fill in IT at 15:50 where he just smacks the bejeesuz out of the octabons or whatever those are - it just feeds into the next part so magnificently... :hefdaddy
or how about the monster fill before the main verse comes in at 3:29. Mangini killed it!
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Last two or so minutes of Surrender To Reason :'( so beautiful
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The more I listen to the album, the better it gets. This album has so much great stuff going on, it needs a lot of listens. I'm really impressed with it.
I think people saying they can't remember anything need to keep listening. Because I kind of felt that way after a couple listens and still do. The more I listen more stuff starts to stand out and I'm starting to get familiar. Actually, this feels exactly how it felt when I heard SFAM for the first time. I listened to that album and it just confused the shit out of me. This album is kind of like that.
I really feel like this album is going to grow on me immensely. I just keep wanting to listen to it more and more which I never ever felt for the last two albums. I think there is definitely something special about this album.
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Well, I just finished Illumination Theory and another outstanding album. I don't think I can possibly be disappointed by a Dream Theater album. Everything they do is magnificent and every song is great. I honestly thought I was going to be let down by IT, but now I'm looking at one of the all time greats. The orchestral part about 9 minutes in blew me away. I can't recall ever being so genuinely moved by a piece of music. I cried and I didn't even realize I was crying. I didn't feel like I was in my own body. And then when the band got going again, a big part of me thought "This is great, but I wouldn't mind if the orchestra never went away." Life is good. Thank you, DT ;D
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Bizarrely - not only do the songs get better on repeated listens but the production does too.
Probably just acclimatising to it - but the really aggressive feel of all the instruments really works.
This album has so much punch that A Dramatic Turn... was lacking.
Really looking forward to blasting this album on CD.
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I just absolutely adore JLB's varied vocal passages in IT, especially the sequence of "Hate dividing us, love reminding us" and "Hope can be a shadow fleeting", he's really on fire in this album!
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This album brings an element that has been light or missing on several previous albums, good old-fashioned piano. The few times JR uses it really elevates the song in a way I haven't heard since About To Crash, this needs to become more prominent in the future.
This album also has the least amount of "wankery" in a long time, IT and EM are the only tracks that really have anything that could fall under that label and it's tastefully done and shorter on average.
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This album brings an element that has been light or missing on several previous albums, good old-fashioned piano. The few times JR uses it really elevates the song in a way I haven't heard since About To Crash, this needs to become more prominent in the future.
There is actually a lot of piano on every single DT album that JR has played on.
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While I think Roadrunner is doing a great job promoting DT, how they picked AFTR and TEI as singles and totally miss the most catchy and the best standalone track in the album (The Bigger Picture) is beyond me. It's probably the most congruent thing the band has done in a while (except the weird intro and end, maybe it used to be a much longer song?). Everybody gets to stand out at least once in the song. Love MM and JR's work in this one.
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Bizarrely - not only do the songs get better on repeated listens but the production does too.
Probably just acclimatising to it - but the really aggressive feel of all the instruments really works.
This album has so much punch that A Dramatic Turn... was lacking.
Really looking forward to blasting this album on CD.
Totally agree. With every additional listen I'm like "this mix really isn't bad". Somehow it just sounds cleaner with more listens. Can't explain why, though.
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Dream Theater is clearly brain-washing you into loving the mix.
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Update: I'm still loving the album. Don't know if it will stand the test of time, but as of know, I'm happy.
EDIT: Am I the only one getting strong Count of Tuscany vibes from 3:42 of Enigma Machine?
It's the same exact thing. If you didn't I'd be concerned.
Well, good that you don't have to be concerned then, Mister. :P
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Bizarrely - not only do the songs get better on repeated listens but the production does too.
Probably just acclimatising to it - but the really aggressive feel of all the instruments really works.
This album has so much punch that A Dramatic Turn... was lacking.
Really looking forward to blasting this album on CD.
Totally agree. With every additional listen I'm like "this mix really isn't bad". Somehow it just sounds cleaner with more listens. Can't explain why, though.
I think the mix is pretty good. It's mastered too hot though. Too compressed. I do enjoy the mix though.
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First listen to Enigma Machine, the first riff -that returns later- is pretty awesome and totally promises a tense instrumental but then the song kinda wanders off and loses my attention for some reason, pretty sure it will grow on me though.
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Bizarrely - not only do the songs get better on repeated listens but the production does too.
Probably just acclimatising to it - but the really aggressive feel of all the instruments really works.
This album has so much punch that A Dramatic Turn... was lacking.
Really looking forward to blasting this album on CD.
Totally agree. With every additional listen I'm like "this mix really isn't bad". Somehow it just sounds cleaner with more listens. Can't explain why, though.
That's only until you listen to.. Anything else.
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The best thing? The way Mangini and Myung lock in so well. I've never heard such a great sync between drummer and bass since FII. Being a drummer myself, nothing beats hearing the rythym section play off each other so well. IT has me kind of gobsmacked actually.
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This album brings an element that has been light or missing on several previous albums, good old-fashioned piano. The few times JR uses it really elevates the song in a way I haven't heard since About To Crash, this needs to become more prominent in the future.
There is actually a lot of piano on every single DT album that JR has played on.
I feel the exact opposite. I feel like there's substantially less real piano on this album than just about any previous ones... And also just much less JR presence, which I feel takes a bit of the DT element out of the music...
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Not sure what you mean, JR is all over the place. He's just doing less wheedly-deedly than usual.
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I have to say after 10 listens, everything after the 15:50 mark of Illumination Theory is the most epic part of any DT song ever written.
The last choruses of Surrender to Reason are annoyingly catchy and I can't help but hum the melody everytime I'm not listening to anything.
This might break the Holy Trinity for me.
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I have to say after 10 listens, everything after the 15:50 mark of Illumination Theory is the most epic part of any DT song ever written.
The last choruses of Surrender to Reason are annoyingly catchy and I can't help but hum the melody everytime I'm not listening to anything.
This might break the Holy Trinity for me.
Holy Quadrupoly?
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Not sure what you mean, JR is all over the place. He's just doing less wheedly-deedly than usual.
The most perfect description ever!
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Got another listen in tonight. I officially do not understand why any Dream Theater fan would dislike this album. If you do not like this album, we are on different wavelengths.
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Got another listen in tonight. I officially do not understand why any Dream Theater fan would dislike this album. If you do not like this album, we are on different wavelengths.
This, although I'm not sure if you're in the "FUCKILOVETHISALBUM" camp like me :P
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I think I am. I've just been heaping praise on the album since the stream was put up. It's kind of embarrassing, actually, since just about everyone else has been much more reserved, but every time I listen to it I become more certain that I'll eventually view this as being on the same tier as Images and Six Degrees.
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I think I am. I've just been heaping praise on the album since the stream was put up. It's kind of embarrassing, actually, since just about everyone else has been much more reserved, but every time I listen to it I become more certain that I'll eventually view this as being on the same tier as Images and Six Degrees.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one then :)
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This album brings an element that has been light or missing on several previous albums, good old-fashioned piano. The few times JR uses it really elevates the song in a way I haven't heard since About To Crash, this needs to become more prominent in the future.
There is actually a lot of piano on every single DT album that JR has played on.
Yep. It may not always feature prominently and upfront, but there's piano on a lot more than people realize, although DT's music is so dense, and JR's keyboards so layered (and often mixed low), that a lot of people probably miss it. Looking at their recent few albums, these are the songs there is some form of piano in (I may even be missing some)-
ToT - every song but As I Am, and HTF, and that's on the balls to the wall heavy album.
8V - every single song
SC - every single song, again on a pretty heavy album overall
BCASL - all but AROP
ADTOE - OTBOA, LNF, TITL, Outcry, FFH, BAI (surprisingly not on BTS that I could spot)
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Not sure what you mean, JR is all over the place. He's just doing less wheedly-deedly than usual.
The most perfect description ever!
Let me be clear that I am in no way anti-wheedly-deedly.
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I think I am. I've just been heaping praise on the album since the stream was put up. It's kind of embarrassing, actually, since just about everyone else has been much more reserved, but every time I listen to it I become more certain that I'll eventually view this as being on the same tier as Images and Six Degrees.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one then :)
You're not the only ones. :metal
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I think I am. I've just been heaping praise on the album since the stream was put up. It's kind of embarrassing, actually, since just about everyone else has been much more reserved, but every time I listen to it I become more certain that I'll eventually view this as being on the same tier as Images and Six Degrees.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one then :)
You're not the only ones. :metal
right there with you all... :tup
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Did my ritual road trip and listened to the album all the way through. I'm in love with it and I feel this is another great addition to DTs catalog.
One thing I don't get is why some people get so personally offended at someone elses opinion. Whether you hate it or love it, what is the point in attacking someone that doesn't see things your way? For instance, I personally love the new album yet in no way will someone that hates it change anything for me. Like, how does someone elses opinion change what the music does for you? As if their opinion somehow changes the music itself.
Anyway, I'm gonna get tons of enjoyment from this new album and I'm genuinely grateful that DT keeps putting out new material and taking things to a new level each time.
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The Looking Glass is my fave by far...its the "DT doing Rush" song I've been wanting to hear since I became a fan. Every song has some really great parts and I like them all, although I still haven't completely "gotten" Surrender to Reason. Seems like the chorus at the end drags on for an extra 2 or 3 bars and it's just not sinking in for me. Love the rest of it though!!
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I think I am. I've just been heaping praise on the album since the stream was put up. It's kind of embarrassing, actually, since just about everyone else has been much more reserved, but every time I listen to it I become more certain that I'll eventually view this as being on the same tier as Images and Six Degrees.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one then :)
You're not the only ones. :metal
right there with you all... :tup
I know this is a honeymoon period for all of us, but since the second full album listen, count me in. The experience is actually pretty much the same when I heard SFAM for the first time. At first I was like, "There's definitely something really special here, but I can't digest it all the way because it's really grandiose.", but then I just loved it more and more upon each listen.
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Ok Behind The Veil is clicking with in all of the right ways! Working its way up in this albums depth chart that's for sure!
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Getting better with each listen :)
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For some reason, almost every prog album I heard this year was hard to "get" on first listen. (The Mountain,Coal and now DT12)
Oh and IT is top 3 DT for me atm.
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The jet sound at the end of the orchestra in Illumination Theory scared me. D:
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IT is def growing on me. I feel like all the songs are becoming more memorable as I follow along with the lyrics as well.
I was struggling with the first three listens. ADTOE seemed easier to get into.
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i need to say it again. the riffage in IT is amazing. oh man. OH MAN
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Ok...I'm going through my third listen tonight, and I have a new favorite.
The outro to The Bigger Picture literally just made me weepy as I was trying to share it with my son. YOU MADE ME CRY IN FRONT OF MY SON DT!!!! ONLY BIG FISH (the movie) HAS EVER DONE THAT!!!!
This album.....this freakin album. This is just blowing my freakin mind. I honestly cannot even begin to convey in words how much I am loving this album!!
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I played SFAM for a week straight when it came out because it was so good, and to take it all in.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/3otij.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/3otij)via Imgflip Meme Maker (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
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(https://i.imgflip.com/3otij.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/3otij)via Imgflip Meme Maker (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
I still feel this way about that section of IT....but I'm starting to feel like the outro to The Bigger Picture may very well be its equal.
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i think a band is very special when you can't wait to hear the new songs live, not just the classics over and over again.
I want the whole album live during the evening with
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Just did some math, and my curiosity was confirmed. The average song length of the new album is 7 1/2 minutes long. That is the shortest average since SFAM (which is just short of 6 1/2 min average).
If you take out IT, and just average the remaining eight songs...it's the shortest average (5:45) in band history....the runner up would be WDADU (6:15).
Just as an additional ripple. Of the post-SFAM *MP* albums, the shortest average song length is Octavarium...and the average song length on that album is *9 1/2 MINUTES*....
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I heard the album 5 times a began to like at after the third listening. that's always a great sign if the album don't klick the first times listening for me. now I can't wait to hear it again in an uncompressed sound file. this album has something special a its the first since SFAM were every song is great. I think it's one of the best DT ever made.
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i think a band is very special when you can't wait to hear the new songs live, not just the classics over and over again.
I want the whole album live during the evening with
Same here and I'll probably cry like that woman when I'll listen to IT. Now you can fool me.
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Some parts of the instrumentation in The Bigger Picture reminds me of Eve. TBP is just a fantastic and emotional song from beginning to end! Goosebumps!
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Bizarrely - not only do the songs get better on repeated listens but the production does too.
Probably just acclimatising to it - but the really aggressive feel of all the instruments really works.
This album has so much punch that A Dramatic Turn... was lacking.
Really looking forward to blasting this album on CD.
Totally agree. With every additional listen I'm like "this mix really isn't bad". Somehow it just sounds cleaner with more listens. Can't explain why, though.
Maybe because it's so brickwalled that you need a lot of listens to pick up details between the noise?
Why do you try to turn it into a good thing, that you need a lot of listens to just hear what's going on? I don't meant digesting the complexity of the music, but plainly telling instruments apart.
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The only place where I was able to find IT lyrics is in the link below, but some are wrong, as James at the end clearly sings "you'll never know that you're alive", rather than "you'll never know the joy in life".
https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/3530822107859467467/
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Very first "serious" listening.
Very bad feeling :'( , but still listening...
Seems it demands many listenings, this album is not easily "accessible" like ADTOE was.
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I still feel this way about that section of IT....but I'm starting to feel like the outro to The Bigger Picture may very well be its equal.
I know everyone's excited about Illumination Theory, but The Bigger Picture isn't getting nearly enough love imo. Some of the album's most beautiful moments are hidden on that track.
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I don't see the difficulty in this record, almost every part was very cool to me on first listen.
The production is weird and has two sides to it. On one hand there's the snare sound, which I feel is ugly, but has a good amount of meat to go with the heavy guitars. This album luckily sounds more ballsy than ADTOE, which was much needed.
Then on the other it's compressed to hell. I do get ear fatigue from it. I played SDOIT after it (a fairly loud album) and didn't believe how rich and dynamic it suddenly sounded. I'm def buying the HD tracks version if it becomes available.
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I still feel this way about that section of IT....but I'm starting to feel like the outro to The Bigger Picture may very well be its equal.
I know everyone's excited about Illumination Theory, but The Bigger Picture isn't getting nearly enough love imo. Some of the album's most beautiful moments are hidden on that track.
Actually a lot of people in this topic have strongly praised the song. Search through the thread and you'll find many superpositive comments on TBP, which I absolutely share. The song is just astounding. Fact is the level of all songs on this album is so high that it's difficult to choose which one's the best! Man I'm so impressed by this...
Here's one of the comments I was talking about =)
Ok...I'm going through my third listen tonight, and I have a new favorite.
The outro to The Bigger Picture literally just made me weepy as I was trying to share it with my son. YOU MADE ME CRY IN FRONT OF MY SON DT!!!! ONLY BIG FISH (the movie) HAS EVER DONE THAT!!!!
This album.....this freakin album. This is just blowing my freakin mind. I honestly cannot even begin to convey in words how much I am loving this album!!
Speaking of which, I totally agree with you, jammindude!!
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That little bit of JR piano in TBP with the heartbeat is very cool. He just plays those chords and doesn't even play a 32nd-note arpeggio. What a restraint! :lol
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That little bit of JR piano in TBP with the heartbeat is very cool. He just plays those chords and doesn't even play a 32nd-note arpeggio. What a restraint! :lol
Υeah, that was very nice!
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Then on the other it's compressed to hell. I do get ear fatigue from it. I played SDOIT after it (a fairly loud album) and didn't believe how rich and dynamic it suddenly sounded. I'm def buying the HD tracks version if it becomes available.
I think this is the main reason why it takes multiple listens to appreciate it, listening to it is just fatiguing. Good writing (sometimes even great) but terrible mastering :tdwn
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That little bit of JR piano in TBP with the heartbeat is very cool. He just plays those chords and doesn't even play a 32nd-note arpeggio. What a restraint! :lol
He actually shows the same restraint most of the time.
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Then on the other it's compressed to hell. I do get ear fatigue from it. I played SDOIT after it (a fairly loud album)
Yeah, it's something I'm trying to overcome with subsequent listens and this is exactly why I think it'll take a while for me (and plenty of others) to digest completely.
I'm def buying the HD tracks version if it becomes available.
You and me both.
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Very first "serious" listening.
Very bad feeling :'( , but still listening...
Seems it demands many listenings, this album is not easily "accessible" like ADTOE was.
Agree. 100%
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That little bit of JR piano in TBP with the heartbeat is very cool. He just plays those chords and doesn't even play a 32nd-note arpeggio. What a restraint! :lol
He actually shows the same restraint most of the time.
Agreed, and I do find comments like that a bit silly.
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The Happy riff in The Looking Glass reminds me of :
When The Going Gets Tough, The Tough Get Going by Billy Ocean
Jump by Van Halen
& Something off Permission To land by the Darkness
:lol
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Very first "serious" listening.
Very bad feeling :'( , but still listening...
Seems it demands many listenings, this album is not easily "accessible" like ADTOE was.
Agree. 100%
We´re on different sides of the spectrum here...ADTOE took me many listens to finally get, and it´s still quite far from being my favourite album. DT12, on the other hand, gets better at every listen. Yesterday I said it was on par with 6DOIT, Awake and I&W. Scrap that, it´s much better than 6DOIT. Hopefully the hype about this album will last long.
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It's definitely a top three album for me, perhaps top two.
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First verdict - but I guess it may evolve with time...
No doubt for me : ADTOE was better.
Track by track:
- FAS === >>> good and powerful intro...but was it really necessary ??
- TEI === >>> very good... but still not great.
- TLG === >>> Hello Rush!! :biggrin: === >>> One of my favorite. :tup
- EM === >>> don't like intrumentals.
- TBP === >>> first great track (so you have to wait for the fifth track... :yeahright) of the album. :rollin
- BTV === >>> uninspired pop-prog pt. 1.
- STR === >>> uninspired pop-prog pt. 2.
- AFTR == >>> nice ballad, but unfortunately ruined by a ridiculous keyboard solo from JR. :facepalm:
- IT ==== >>> finally an ALMOST awesome track!!Better late than never... Why "almost" awesome ?? Because the last part of the track is just sloppy!! And the final piano solo, what's the point ?? Too bad, the first half of the song is terrific.
Otherwise, the mix is awfull, Mangini do the job, but nothing much more impressive than his parts on ADTOE.
JP is really "quieter" than usual, no "awesome" solos at the horizon. A good thing maybe ?? :yeahright
LaBrie doing the job.
The bass of JM is a little bit more present and that's a good thing.
JR still in the continuation of the previous album, more "discrete" and that's a good thing.
None of the 4 musicians "pulled the blanket to him", which gives a really good balance to the sound of the album.
But this album, for the moment, still a disapointment to me.
Hope other listenings will change my mind.
But it could have been worst : at my first listening I though I had the same AWFUL feeling that I had felt with BC&SL. :eek
I really think I could learn to love this one in its entirety, but it will certainly take some time.
Anyway, if I don't listen BC&SL anymore, "DT" should not suffer the same fate...I hope so!! :biggrin: :loser:
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The Bigger Picture is great but I kinda wish the "shed light" chorus came back for a third time. It doesn't really matter though because the rest of the song is great and it's a little less predictable this way :tup
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Completely random: has anyone noticed a "bloop" sound at 1:37 of The Bigger Picture which sounds almost identical to a Skype notification? Every time I hear that bit I do a double-take.
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Completely random: has anyone noticed a "bloop" sound at 1:37 of The Bigger Picture which sounds almost identical to a Skype notification? Every time I hear that bit I do a double-take.
I don't hear it here, but I swear I hear the Skype sound in a ton of songs mistakenly. I hear it on one song from Impermanent Resonance (can't remember where).
Having someone else suffer the same problem makes me feel slightly less crazy about hearing it everywhere. :lol
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I don't hear it lol. Oh well. I'm sure I will later on though
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Completely random: has anyone noticed a "bloop" sound at 1:37 of The Bigger Picture which sounds almost identical to a Skype notification? Every time I hear that bit I do a double-take.
I don't hear it here, but I swear I hear the Skype sound in a ton of songs mistakenly. I hear it on one song from Impermanent Resonance (can't remember where).
Having someone else suffer the same problem makes me feel slightly less crazy about hearing it everywhere. :lol
Some kind of auditive after image? :D
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I think it's mainly due to the loudness. I tend to lose concentration a lot while listening to it, a lot more than with other albums. I'm very certain that the constant wall of sound I'm exposed to makes my mind drift away.
It's unreal how much this affects me too. I know exactly how this stuff works and it shouldn't, but it does. I know it will get clearer with better quality, SoundCloud to YouTube to MP3 to CD to 5.1 DVD. I really disliked TEI and AFTR at first but with increased quality it got better. I'm pretty sure right now that sound quality is a major culprit (I would guess about a third) why the album doesn't click with me at all.
Didn't have the time or desire to listen to it a third time yet, so no update of more unpopular opinions and comments by me, at least for now. :lol
Greetings...
Nef
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I played the record to two friends of mine who are very mildly into DT and they seemed to rather enjoy it. Conversely, the person who got me into Dream Theater at the time of Systematic Chaos thinks it's horrible! :lol
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I played the orchestra section for a friend who isn't into DT at all and he was blown away. He asked me if he could get that as a song by itself. :lol
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I played the orchestra section for a friend who isn't into DT at all and he was blown away. He asked me if he could get that as a song by itself. :lol
It's a nice piece of music for sure, but I still have no idea how they (the band) think it works in the middle of Illumination Theory. To me it's like they took a sledehammer and smashed this section into the middle of the song.
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I played the orchestra section for a friend who isn't into DT at all and he was blown away. He asked me if he could get that as a song by itself. :lol
It's a nice piece of music for sure, but I still have no idea how they (the band) think it works in the middle of Illumination Theory. To me it's like they took a sledehammer and smashed this section into the middle of the song.
I felt the same way about the middle section of The Count Of Tuscany, so I definitely get where you are coming from. But the orchestral section of Illumination Theory works much better for me. I actually enjoy it as a really cool interlude and I think it fits well. But, hey, people hear and react to thigns much differently. It is a huge risk to write that way and include things that completely change the momentum and feel of a song. Having such a stark change of feel in a song like that is surely going to create very different reactions from fans, and sometimes may just flat out not work. I applaud them for going for it and doing something that at least a lot of us seem to think works very well, despite that that is far from the unanimous reaction.
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I played the orchestra section for a friend who isn't into DT at all and he was blown away. He asked me if he could get that as a song by itself. :lol
It's a nice piece of music for sure, but I still have no idea how they (the band) think it works in the middle of Illumination Theory. To me it's like they took a sledehammer and smashed this section into the middle of the song.
I felt the same way about the middle section of The Count Of Tuscany, so I definitely get where you are coming from. But the orchestral section of Illumination Theory works much better for me. I actually enjoy it as a really cool interlude and I think it fits well. But, hey, people hear and react to thigns much differently. It is a huge risk to write that way and include things that completely change the momentum and feel of a song. Having such a stark change of feel in a song like that is surely going to create very different reactions from fans, and sometimes may just flat out not work. I applaud them for going for it and doing something that at least a lot of us seem to think works very well, despite that that is far from the unanimous reaction.
I just find that TCOT section works much better and bridges the song much better. At least so far, the orchestra section just seems thrown in there. Plus we already have TCOT section, (and ITPOE), so it has this kind of "they've done this already feeling".
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I played the orchestra section for a friend who isn't into DT at all and he was blown away. He asked me if he could get that as a song by itself. :lol
It's a nice piece of music for sure, but I still have no idea how they (the band) think it works in the middle of Illumination Theory. To me it's like they took a sledehammer and smashed this section into the middle of the song.
You know the orchestral section is repeating a musical theme from earlier, right?
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I played the orchestra section for a friend who isn't into DT at all and he was blown away. He asked me if he could get that as a song by itself. :lol
It's a nice piece of music for sure, but I still have no idea how they (the band) think it works in the middle of Illumination Theory. To me it's like they took a sledehammer and smashed this section into the middle of the song.
I felt the same way about the middle section of The Count Of Tuscany, so I definitely get where you are coming from. But the orchestral section of Illumination Theory works much better for me. I actually enjoy it as a really cool interlude and I think it fits well. But, hey, people hear and react to thigns much differently. It is a huge risk to write that way and include things that completely change the momentum and feel of a song. Having such a stark change of feel in a song like that is surely going to create very different reactions from fans, and sometimes may just flat out not work. I applaud them for going for it and doing something that at least a lot of us seem to think works very well, despite that that is far from the unanimous reaction.
I just find that TCOT section works much better and bridges the song much better. At least so far, the orchestra section just seems thrown in there. Plus we already have TCOT section, (and ITPOE), so it has this kind of "they've done this already feeling".
I agree.
The dilemma for me is that the middle section of IT is the best part of the song, and even the album. Absolutely gorgeous. But it doesn't work in the context of the song imo, even though it's the main theme of the song. It breaks the flow of the song to the point that it doesn't feel like it's all the same song to me. The fact it's playing the main theme doesn't do anything to tie it together. It's completely stop/start before and after the orchestral section.
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I played the orchestra section for a friend who isn't into DT at all and he was blown away. He asked me if he could get that as a song by itself. :lol
It's a nice piece of music for sure, but I still have no idea how they (the band) think it works in the middle of Illumination Theory. To me it's like they took a sledehammer and smashed this section into the middle of the song.
I felt the same way about the middle section of The Count Of Tuscany, so I definitely get where you are coming from. But the orchestral section of Illumination Theory works much better for me. I actually enjoy it as a really cool interlude and I think it fits well. But, hey, people hear and react to thigns much differently. It is a huge risk to write that way and include things that completely change the momentum and feel of a song. Having such a stark change of feel in a song like that is surely going to create very different reactions from fans, and sometimes may just flat out not work. I applaud them for going for it and doing something that at least a lot of us seem to think works very well, despite that that is far from the unanimous reaction.
I love the break in The Count of Tuscany and I feel like it fits perfectly.
I'm assuming Jordan will play this break when they perform IT live - which got me thinking about it more - if it was a true piano break with him playing the same meelody on a grand then I would be into it a lot more. Subconsciously I know that while it sounds nice, it isn't DT playing it. Are there any forumers that could play that piece on piano to test out my theory? ;D
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I played the orchestra section for a friend who isn't into DT at all and he was blown away. He asked me if he could get that as a song by itself. :lol
It's a nice piece of music for sure, but I still have no idea how they (the band) think it works in the middle of Illumination Theory. To me it's like they took a sledehammer and smashed this section into the middle of the song.
I felt the same way about the middle section of The Count Of Tuscany, so I definitely get where you are coming from. But the orchestral section of Illumination Theory works much better for me. I actually enjoy it as a really cool interlude and I think it fits well. But, hey, people hear and react to thigns much differently. It is a huge risk to write that way and include things that completely change the momentum and feel of a song. Having such a stark change of feel in a song like that is surely going to create very different reactions from fans, and sometimes may just flat out not work. I applaud them for going for it and doing something that at least a lot of us seem to think works very well, despite that that is far from the unanimous reaction.
I just find that TCOT section works much better and bridges the song much better. At least so far, the orchestra section just seems thrown in there. Plus we already have TCOT section, (and ITPOE), so it has this kind of "they've done this already feeling".
I agree.
The dilemma for me is that the middle section of IT is the best part of the song, and even the album. Absolutely gorgeous. But it doesn't work in the context of the song imo, even though it's the main theme of the song. It breaks the flow of the song to the point that it doesn't feel like it's all the same song to me. The fact it's playing the main theme doesn't do anything to tie it together. It's completely stop/start before and after the orchestral section.
I would have been fine with JR's spacey thing going right into the bass/drums. Has a Cygnus X-1 vibe which I think is really cool.
And speaking of Cygnus X-1, this is the most Rush inspired album they've done since the beginning, IMO.
The other thing that IT seems to be missing is that true climactic moment.
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I played the orchestra section for a friend who isn't into DT at all and he was blown away. He asked me if he could get that as a song by itself. :lol
It's a nice piece of music for sure, but I still have no idea how they (the band) think it works in the middle of Illumination Theory. To me it's like they took a sledehammer and smashed this section into the middle of the song.
You know the orchestral section is repeating a musical theme from earlier, right?
Yeah I know, it's not a thematic issue for me, it's a musical one. Techincally you could stop any song and throw an orchestral section in the middle of it, but you have to ask yourself (as the writer) if it serves as purpose being there.
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The other thing that IT seems to be missing is that true climactic moment.
Yeah, I think you have a point here. I was expecting a moment like 23:00 in Octavarium where the music just explodes into that final outro and every inch of my body is covered in goose-bumps. I haven't felt that level in IT yet, but I'm finding IT more complicated and layered than Octavarium, so I'm continuing to listen because I know there's something there... I just haven't been able to uncover it yet.
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IT has an amazing climax! Are you guys even listening to the same song?
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The other thing that IT seems to be missing is that true climactic moment.
Yeah, I think you have a point here. I was expecting a moment like 23:00 in Octavarium where the music just explodes into that final outro and every inch of my body is covered in goose-bumps. I haven't felt that level in IT yet, but I'm finding IT more complicated and layered than Octavarium, so I'm continuing to listen because I know there's something there... I just haven't been able to uncover it yet.
The end of IT (pun not intended xD), otherwise known as Surrender, Trust & Passion is the greatest climatic moment in a DT epic, IMHO, maybe matched only by the Crimson Sunset.
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IT has an amazing climax! Are you guys even listening to the same song?
Ninja'd by Matt xD actually you also wrote something I wanted to say: are we even listening to the same track?
Sorry for double posting.
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The other thing that IT seems to be missing is that true climactic moment.
Yeah, I think you have a point here. I was expecting a moment like 23:00 in Octavarium where the music just explodes into that final outro and every inch of my body is covered in goose-bumps. I haven't felt that level in IT yet, but I'm finding IT more complicated and layered than Octavarium, so I'm continuing to listen because I know there's something there... I just haven't been able to uncover it yet.
The end of IT (pun not intended xD), otherwise known as Surrender, Trust & Passion is the greatest climatic moment in a DT epic, IMHO, maybe matched only by the Crimson Sunset.
:eek I need to listen to this more clearly.
IT has an amazing climax! Are you guys even listening to the same song?
Ninja'd by Matt xD actually you also wrote something I wanted to say: are we even listening to the same track?
Sorry for double posting.
Yeah! It's not hitting me at the same level 8vm does. I'm waiting for it to suddenly click for me. It took almost a month before the full power of 8vm hit me, so I'm fully expecting that when IT hits it'll be mind-blowing.
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It took almost a month before the full power of 8vm hit me, so I'm fully expecting that when IT hits it'll be mind-blowing.
What, are you kidding?
Octavarium was the first DT song I had ever heard. It put me crying manly tears after 20 minutes on the first listen.
I can't believe you had to listen to it for a month before you started liking it.
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I agree with the sound issues people have been mentioning. I feel like it's incredibly difficult to hear any cymbal work that MM is doing. It's almost like there's no clear high end. Because of this, the less poppy sound of the snare is lost a lot as well. Also, there are some effects on JLB's that I don't particularly like, most noticeably on the end of IT.
I can't help but draw comparisons to Clockwork Angles. Not only are there Rush-like riffs and the guitar and bass tone being very Rush-like at times (which is fine), but both albums which have exceptional writing greatly suffer from sonic issues.
About the writing itself, like I said in another thread, it's very strong. The performances by all members are great especially on IT. Btw, I don't have any problems with the ambient and string sections being in the middle as of yet. We'll see what develops.
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It took almost a month before the full power of 8vm hit me, so I'm fully expecting that when IT hits it'll be mind-blowing.
What, are you kidding?
Octavarium was the first DT song I had ever heard. It put me crying manly tears after 20 minutes on the first listen.
I can't believe you had to listen to it for a month before you started liking it.
I never said like. I loved it on my first listen. It took a month for something in it to click to take it from "wow I love this song" to "OMG I'M GONNA DIE FROM SO MANY FEELS." I'm not proud of that by any stretch :\
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Right. :lol
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Just listen "Along for the ride" again.
I can't believe how the JR solo ruin this beautiful song.
I can't understand why there is no JP solo instead.
What a waste... :'(
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Just listen "Along for the ride" again.
I can't believe how the JR solo ruin this beautiful song.
I can't understand why there is no JP solo instead.
What a waste... :'(
Respect for your opinion, but mine is miles away from what you said =) The JR solo is simply amazing to me.
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I agree with the sound issues people have been mentioning. I feel like it's incredibly difficult to hear any cymbal work that MM is doing. It's almost like there's no clear high end. Because of this, the less poppy sound of the snare is lost a lot as well. Also, there are some effects on JLB's that I don't particularly like, most noticeably on the end of IT.
Yup.
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Just listen "Along for the ride" again.
I can't believe how the JR solo ruin this beautiful song.
I can't understand why there is no JP solo instead.
What a waste... :'(
The only thing about that solo that I don't like is it comes in noticeably late.
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Just listen "Along for the ride" again.
I can't believe how the JR solo ruin this beautiful song.
I can't understand why there is no JP solo instead.
What a waste... :'(
The only thing about that solo that I don't like is it comes in noticeably late.
A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.
(https://www.google.it/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=SSpCSOlLC6vogM&tbnid=UcMekRrSiWLd4M:&ved=0CAUQjBwwADhz&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsphotos-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-prn1%2F150981_10150699305257989_597934561_n.jpg&ei=18U5UvvgB-bx4QS34YDIDw&psig=AFQjCNFyJfvKwRj3313I9dVFeFVZYKJ3hA&ust=1379604311173167)
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Just listen "Along for the ride" again.
I can't believe how the JR solo ruin this beautiful song.
I can't understand why there is no JP solo instead.
What a waste... :'(
The only thing about that solo that I don't like is it comes in noticeably late.
A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
Oh my God I'm dead.
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:clap:
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Just listen "Along for the ride" again.
I can't believe how the JR solo ruin this beautiful song.
I can't understand why there is no JP solo instead.
What a waste... :'(
The only thing about that solo that I don't like is it comes in noticeably late.
A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.
:slowclap:
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It's still surprising to me how much AftR ruins the atmosphere in just a second. The worst song from the album by far; and personally, the most ambience-killer musical piece Dream Theater has ever created.
I'm glad you people enjoy it, because I can't stand it.
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Just listen "Along for the ride" again.
I can't believe how the JR solo ruin this beautiful song.
I can't understand why there is no JP solo instead.
What a waste... :'(
The only thing about that solo that I don't like is it comes in noticeably late.
A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.
(https://www.google.it/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=SSpCSOlLC6vogM&tbnid=UcMekRrSiWLd4M:&ved=0CAUQjBwwADhz&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsphotos-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-prn1%2F150981_10150699305257989_597934561_n.jpg&ei=18U5UvvgB-bx4QS34YDIDw&psig=AFQjCNFyJfvKwRj3313I9dVFeFVZYKJ3hA&ust=1379604311173167)
Italians are this forum's treasure.
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A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.
No - he's definitely late. (https://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/kotowboy/111-1.jpg)
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Listening to IT again, the section starting at 11:50 where James just starts destroying it, vocally it reminds me of "Another Day" from ACOS, especially the "I'm sick of all you hypocrites" part.
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I have to say, the vocal layers/harmonies on the disc are just otherwordly. The way they are mixed for levels and fx also is stellar.
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Listening to IT again, the section starting at 11:50 where James just starts destroying it, vocally it reminds me of "Another Day" from ACOS, especially the "I'm sick of all you hypocrites" part.
That section is his strongest performance on record since Awake.
REBELS FOR THEIR FREEDOM!
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Another thought on the length of the tracks...
There has NEVER (not even on WDADU) been a Dream Theater album where upon taking away the longest song from the album (the epic)...the next longest song on the entire album is only 7 minutes long.
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This is a good thing. It gives DT12 a lot of replay value.
Unlike Black Clouds where it was like - which song shall I listen to ?
The two singles ? nah - heard them enough.
Oh - all that's left is four 13 - 19 minute songs. :\
None then.
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FAS 6/10 I don't consider it much. It's cool, but definitely just an intro.
TEI 7/10 Good metal tune. One of the more powerful songs on the album I think.
TLG 8/10 I like Rush, and I like DT taking some chances. This tune does both of these for me. Another one of my favourites.
EM 4.5/10 A few cool melodies, but overall boring and forgettable.
TBP 8.5/10 I think this is my favourite right now. I think it could have ended a bit earlier, as I feel the last bit of vocal melody is kind of unnecessary. But great song with great parts.
BTV 7/10 I'm a fan. biggest complaint is some of the vocal phrasing in the first verse. The part right after the first chorus (little bass break that leads right back into some sick riffs) I thought was amazing.
STR 7.5/10 This might overtake TBP in the future. really cool, and structured pretty uniquely. Also kinda Rush-y. Really like the bass riff during the solo.
AFTR 5.5/10 Well written. Nothing special. Weird synth solo. Will listen again.
IT 6-7.5/10 I'm really confused by this track. One listen I like it, the next I don't. Unlike most, I find the middle section is a bit long winded and ruins the flow a bit. And I'm not THAT impressed by James in the second part. It's cool, but not earth shattering. The ending is awesome. And as far as the Easter Egg goes, it's nice, but I'm not sure I get what the big deal is. If it wasn't there, I'd be fine with that. If it was developed into a full song, it wouldn't be very Dream Theater sounding. Sure it's nice, but a little out of place.
Very happy with this album overall. I've been following the band heavily since just before SC, and it's by far the best thing they've done since then.
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There seems to be a definite case of "leave them wanting more" throughout the album. So many excellent ideas they could have extended (and would have in the past) but I find this approach to have so much more impact! Makes me want to just keep replaying the whole thing over and over.
These guys and this album.... I can't even express how I feel... I am so beyond happy they did this.
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There seems to be a definite case of "leave them wanting more" throughout the album. So many excellent ideas they could have extended (and would have in the past) but I find this approach to have so much more impact! Makes me want to just keep replaying the whole thing over and over.
These guys and this album.... I can't even express how I feel... I am so beyond happy they did this.
:tup :tup :tup
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I`m only on the second listen to the full album , but so far so good. Very good in many places as a matter of fact. To me it`s by far the best album they`ve done since "Octavarium" at least. To early to say where it will rank for me in the catalog, but this seems to be a winner!
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Just listened to IT for like the four or fifth time, but it was the first time I was able to listen to it without distraction (getting interrupted at work, haha) and I have to say, I was blown away. It definitely grew on me, each time I listened to it, I liked it more and more, but this time being able to really concentrate and get into the music, I was emotionally moved.
I love the first 7 or so minutes of twisting riffs and the "Consider this question" vocal section is super catchy! Love the orchestra section and then the bass and drum thing comes in and JLB takes over! I haven't heard James sing like that on record in many, many, years!
I've seen mixed opinions of the ending, some seem to like it, others don't. For me personally, I got goosebumps! I thought it was beautiful!!
Also randomly loving right at the 14:00 minute mark where the guitar solo finishes up, the boys kick into that heavy riff and JR flies in with a lead... Something about that transition made me laugh out loud at work !! Its pretty great!
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Just listened to IT for like the four or fifth time, but it was the first time I was able to listen to it without distraction (getting interrupted at work, haha) and I have to say, I was blown away. It definitely grew on me, each time I listened to it, I liked it more and more, but this time being able to really concentrate and get into the music, I was emotionally moved.
I love the first 7 or so minutes of twisting riffs and the "Consider this question" vocal section is super catchy! Love the orchestra section and then the bass and drum thing comes in and JLB takes over! I haven't heard James sing like that on record in many, many, years!
I've seen mixed opinions of the ending, some seem to like it, others don't. For me personally, I got goosebumps! I thought it was beautiful!!
Also randomly loving right at the 14:00 minute mark where the guitar solo finishes up, the boys kick into that heavy riff and JR flies in with a lead... Something about that transition made me laugh out loud at work !! Its pretty great!
Agree with everything you said! :tup
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It's interesting to me that a lot of people aren't liking "Enigma Machine". I love it. It's so cartoony, especially the riffing. It's got a unique feel to it.
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I love it too.
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Yep, Enigma Machine is probably the track that's grown on me the most. Still struggling with Surrender to Reason, which is weird because I just know that's it's gonna end up being a great tune. It's also the track that hit me the most at the listening party. I'm confused.
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Yep, Enigma Machine is probably the track that's grown on me the most. Still struggling with Surrender to Reason, which is weird because I just know that's it's gonna end up being a great tune. It's also the track that hit me the most at the listening party. I'm confused.
Try listening to MM and JM only on STR. I haven't heard a rhythm section this locked into a groove in I can't remember when.
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I love every song except The Bigger Picture and Surrender to Reason which I havent listened too enough yet to let them sink in so I am witholding scores on them for the time being.
FAS : 8/10
TEI : 9/10
TLG : 10/10 : already one of my fav DT songs.
EM : 8/10
BTV : 9/10
AFTR 9/10
And im not listening to Illumination Theory (and havent once!) until next Monday when I hope to listen to it in glorious 5.1 sound!
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It's taken 8+ listens, but I'm really enjoying Surrender to Reason. It's the equivalent of a LTL or a BAI for me, only shorter and more concise.
The "restless angels" section is an album highlight, imo. Amazing end to what I think will go down as a great song.
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Surrender to Reason is actually a very tasteful prog-rock track. The grooves are sooo damn good, and the 'restless angels' is a great ending part. I can't remember since when I've enjoyed such a good sing-along type of thing from the guys.
I love how the band opt more often for a groovy rock riff on this record, like the first couple of riffs in Illumination Theory. That's just so much fun. I definitely get a bit of a Liquid Tension Experiment from those parts, especially when Jordan starts soloing over it at 2:42. One of his coolest parts ever!
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I have not listened to any of the album except the first single. I have pre-ordered thru I-tunes and have a question. Is the qualilty about the same on the hard copy of the cd as the I tunes download? What does the 5.1 mix add? Also, as far as the sound can someone explain to myself and persons not knowledgable who has the responsibility for the sound of the record. I know some folks cringed when it was announced the guy Rush and Aerosmith uses was being utilized on the production of the cd.
Thanks and have enjoyed the comments on the cd.
Now where are those North American tour dates?
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IT at 21:14, is that a Soundcloud compression artifact? Sounds weird.
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I've grown to appreciate the mix more. It's loud, but I compared it to other RR era DT records (level matched) and DT12 just sounds bad ass, despite the obvious flaws. I prefer it to the mixing on ADTOE, BC&SL and SC.
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The Looking Glass ends too abruptly, but it's still a good song.
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I have this stuck in my head today:
"Shed your light on meeee...(shed your light on me)
Be my light when I can´t see...the bigger picture!!!!"
Awesome!!!
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I have this stuck in my head today:
"Shed your light on meeee...(shed your light on me)
Be my light when I can´t see...the bigger picture!!!!"
Awesome!!!
Oh, I thought it said "be my light so I can see the bigger picture"? I could easily be wrong though.
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IT at 21:14, is that a Soundcloud compression artifact? Sounds weird.
I don't hear what your talking about at that spot. But, at 2:01 in the song there is a kind of 'chirp' that's reminiscent of John Paul Jones bass distortion in Heartbreaker except for it's quite loud. I hope that's an artifact because if I play the CD in my truck at high volume that chirp is likely to blow my panel speakers! :lol
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The Looking Glass ends too abruptly, but it's still a good song.
I think the same thing! That song is awesome and I really love it, I just wish they put a proper outro on it. Like after the last chorus, just go back and play that big "limelight" like guitar riff that they rock to in the intro. Something as simple as that would have worked for me!
Still a stinking great song though! Its always a good sign when you want a song to not end!! :metal
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On IT, does anybody else hear that the instrumentation on the "Hope can be a shadow fleeting, I would rather die believing .." verse is reminescent of certain Fatal Tragedy section, just before the kybd and guitar solos?
I think that section is badass. :xbones :metal
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What Myung does behind Petrucci´s solo on The Looking Glass echoes Trial of Tears. Just beautiful!
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Big news eh?
Maybe Awake in it's entirety for the first set and all of DT12 in the 2nd set?
Haha, I doubt it. What good reason do they have for playing Awake in its entirety? Everything is about DT12 now.
Actually, I see that if they do an Evening With format, DT12 would be a good first set. Illumination Theory is just an odd concert closer.
What a concert closer that would be! They could play the Ester Egg piano part on a loop while the house lights went up and we all stumbled out all numb and happy!
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Does anybody else hear a weird phasing effect on James's voice at times? Seems like a possible side-effect of pitch correction, but I'm not sure.
IMHO, that could be a relic of the streaming that can also exist in low quality MP3s. I'd be surprised if that effect is audible on the CD. For what it's worth....
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I think JPs found himself again on this album. His playing is eargasmic throughout and his lyrics are emotional and powerful. He's never made me cry... I gotta admit on a few songs I teared up. Just amazing lyrics. :metal
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The Looking Glass ends too abruptly, but it's still a good song.
It's better than being twice as long and having two instrumental sections for no reason .
A good song is one that you immediately want to hear again.
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I'm getting the feeling that Enigma Machine will be the soundtrack for the next installment of the N.A.D.S. adventures. :metal
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Listening to the whole album for a third time now and starting to familiarize myself more with it.
Another song added to the favorite list is "The Looking Glass." That outro...
Having heard "IT" more times, the "honeymoon" period is kind of over, to an extent. Various parts of the song are very strong and beautiful.
I always have "mood swings" with some of DT's albums. One day I may be feeling kind of "eh" toward one album and the next day I'm completely falling in love with it again. Very strange but that's what happens.
The stretch of "EM," "TBP," and "BTV" is somewhat forgettable to me, so far. I'm having a hard time remembering any melodies or lyrics. I'm sure that'll change with more listens.
Overall, a solid album after 3 listens. I'm sure my mood regarding "DT" will change just like with their other albums, no doubt. :lol
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Not calling anyone wrong....to each their own...honestly.
But hearing anyone call that outro to TBP "forgettable" is just baffling to me. I put that outro as an equal to the orchestral section of IT...and right up there with the most beautiful, majestic DT moments in their history.
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Okay, now that I've heard the record 8 times, early song ranking:
AMAZING
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender To Reason
3. The Bigger Picture
GREAT
4. The Looking Glass
5. False Awakening Suite/The Enemy Inside - The one-two punch, FAS is just what TEI needed.
GOOD
6. Behind The Veil
7. Enigma Machine
BAD?
8. Along for the Ride - I still don't really know what to make of this track, I'm just not feeling it.
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....just realized that this is the only Dream Theater album so far that has absolutely no tracks that I feel the need to skip.
I usually skip Another Day when i listen to I&W, Caught in a Web often gets skipped on Awake. Basically all of FII, Misunderstood and Disappear on 6DOIT, Never Enough on 8V, a lot of SC and ADTOE gets skipped, and Rite of Passage. Thats basically a list of songs i never to.
SFAM and ToT are pretty consistently good the whole way through, but this album, every single song is just awesome..... This might be my favorite album that the band has put out.... Time will tell.
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where's the green on the Another Day part? :biggrin:
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Along for the Ride is the least memorable track i this album for me as well. The "Wait for Sleep" to an otherwise perfect masterpiece. I don´t dislike it, it´s just much less impressive when compared to all the rest.
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Along for the Ride is the least memorable track i this album for me as well. The "Wait for Sleep" to an otherwise perfect masterpiece. I don´t dislike it, it´s just much less impressive when compared to all the rest.
Bad example for me since WFS is one of my favorite songs. :lol
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Along for the Ride is the least memorable track i this album for me as well. The "Wait for Sleep" to an otherwise perfect masterpiece. I don´t dislike it, it´s just much less impressive when compared to all the rest.
Bad example for me since WFS is one of my favorite songs. :lol
I like all songs on I&W, but this is the one I end up skipping all the time... :lol
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I feel that, without sacrificing - far from it - their nature as a progressive/virtuosic metal band, the songwriting and arrangements have been kicked up a notch in efficiency. This album shows a mature, self-aware version of the Dream Theater sound, always with the listener in mind. There's also some very raw emotion to it that I really like.
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I feel that, without sacrificing - far from it - their nature as a progressive/virtuosic metal band, the songwriting and arrangements have been kicked up a notch in efficiency. This album shows a mature, self-aware version of the Dream Theater sound, always with the listener in mind. There's also some very raw emotion to it that I really like.
:tup :tup :tup :metal :metal :metal :metal
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It just dawned on me, after listening to it for the 4344334th time - could they OPEN the set on the new tour with Illumination Theory! How awesome would that be?????
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....just realized that this is the only Dream Theater album so far that has absolutely no tracks that I feel the need to skip.
I was just thinking the same thing this morning. And it goes really fast when I listen to it.
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The solo at about 6.32-6.52 in Illumination Theory is one of the best ideas JP had over the last years.But it is incomplete,it could have been developed into an awesome solo,but it is cut short.It reminds me very much of When the water breaks of LTE,which is a perfect track.Wish Petrucci was more inspired on this one and left me speechless.Anyways.
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Caught in a Web often gets skipped on Awake.
:eek You skip this and not LSOAD or SDV??? Just...wow....we're such an eclectic bunch.
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Caught in a Web often gets skipped on Awake.
:eek You skip this and not LSOAD or SDV??? Just...wow....we're such an eclectic bunch.
Who besides Blob would skip SDV??? :eek
:lol Just kidding, but we are an eclectic bunch! :tup
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It just dawned on me, after listening to it for the 4344334th time - could they OPEN the set on the new tour with Illumination Theory! How awesome would that be?????
Wont happen, and honestly I don't think it would be so awesome to start with such an epic song...
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Who besides Blob would skip SDV??? :eek
*raises hand*
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Who besides Blob would skip SDV??? :eek
*raises hand*
I was kidding. I know that it's not a universally loved song. :biggrin:
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Listening again. Man, FAS has really grown on me a lot, I love it as an intro.
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istening to STR and listening to the lyrics...
Now if you were to surrender to reason, what would angels (restless or otherwise) have to do with anything? They are pretty far away from "reason" for me... Great song though. JM and his inner Geddy in full swing under the solo :metal
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I really can't stop to listen to TBP. Seriously, I've been looking for moments like that for years now.
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Behind The Veil is definitely a song that sneaks up on you. Pretty good chorus and verses and then the instrumental section/solos rips your damn face off. :metal
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Listening again. Man, FAS has really grown on me a lot, I love it as an intro.
I love final fantasy so FAS & EM are both ok my me ! :metal
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The guitar riff in The Looking Glass is so fucking awesome
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The solo at about 6.32-6.52 in Illumination Theory is one of the best ideas JP had over the last years.But it is incomplete,it could have been developed into an awesome solo,but it is cut short.
I love that part too. Yes, too short.
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It just dawned on me, after listening to it for the 4344334th time - could they OPEN the set on the new tour with Illumination Theory! How awesome would that be?????
Here's how I would do it if I were DT:
1. Open with Illumination Theory, but end it before the ambient section.
2. Play the rest of the show.
3. After they go off stage, the orchestra section plays from the speakers.
4. Then, they play the rest of IT as the encore.
This also solves the problem of how to get the middle section in. The only problem with it is that there's a 99 percent chance they'll start with FAS, and a good chance they'll go into TEI after that. Although, if they do 2 sets, then there's still room for my idea.
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Behind The Veil is definitely a song that sneaks up on you. Pretty good chorus and verses and then the instrumental section/solos rips your damn face off. :metal
It's the chorus that struck with me the most on first listen.
Very happy with the album so far.
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Caught in a Web often gets skipped on Awake.
:eek You skip this and not LSOAD or SDV??? Just...wow....we're such an eclectic bunch.
I ADORE Lifting Shadows :)
And Space Dye Vest was one of the first songs by the band that i heard abd quite frankly it has never gotten stale. Will never pass up a chance to hear this song again.
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It just dawned on me, after listening to it for the 4344334th time - could they OPEN the set on the new tour with Illumination Theory! How awesome would that be?????
My money is on FAS(obviously) followed as it is on the record with TEI then something from 8V or TOT.
There is an aussie on board that prolly already knows.....
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Caught in a Web often gets skipped on Awake.
:eek You skip this and not LSOAD or SDV??? Just...wow....we're such an eclectic bunch.
Skip the best song on the album? (LSOAD??) HERESY!!!
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My song ranking:
Illumination Theory
Surrender to Reason
The Bigger Picture
Enigma Machine
Behind the Veil
The Looking Glass
Along for the Ride
False Awakening Suite
The Enemy Inside
The thing is that they're ALL amazing. I still love The Enemy Inside. DT12 is my favorite album by them now, because of just HOW MANY GREAT SONGS there are.
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The only problem with it is that there's a 99 percent chance they'll start with FAS, and a good chance they'll go into TEI after that. Although, if they do 2 sets, then there's still room for my idea.
Well, they are doing "evening with" shows again, so I can guarantee two separate sets. There's no way they don't take a break in the middle of the show. So your idea could very well happen. I kinda like your idea.
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The easter egg feels like credits to a live dvd. Foreshadowing? ;D
Even if they aren't, I predict Illumination Theory will be the set closer/encore.
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I'm not always in the mood for LSOAD, not saying it's bad.
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Am I wrong or does Petrucci start looking like Billy Joel ?
Possibly a face manifestation of acquiring songwriting levels.
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I think of this photo when I hear the end of IT.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3677/9480441900_2899cd2bff.jpg)
or this
(https://humaneeducation.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/BWMLlandingmanmountain.jpg)
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Just a few random thoughts..
The one opinion that is surprising me a little, is many peoples indifference to FAS. It was always slated as an album and concert opener, and I think it kicks off the cinematic feel perfectly. Not to mention adds a great deal of atmosphere to TEI, making an impact sounding one-two punch..
Enigma machine is good. Nay, real good. Like any DT music, songs can take a while to sink in, but for anyone not feeling it, just go have a listen to SOC again.. Good main riff, but a lot of filler, and longer than it needs to be. EM however, is shorter, and now some of the melodies have sunk in, always interesting. The slower bit is very COTTuscany too..
I like the Easter egg music a lot, but not entirely sure it necessary to make it a song by itself. It's very Far From Heaven sounding, so I just feel it serves it's purpose already as the 'closing credits' moment of the album..
Overall, just a beast of an album. Some of the best songs and riffs going round, and IT is as fine an epic as any. The orchestra and outtro are amazing, and I actually love the changeup back to the heavier section - it's like 'yep, we can do beautiful, but in a split second, we're gonna change tact and melt your face bitcheees.. ;-) Seriously amazing all round!
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My thoughts after a couple of days now:
This may not only be the finest DT album for me, but the finest rock album I have ever heard. This is very, very special. This is the complete DT album I have been waiting for. Well see in a year or so how this shakes out, but it definitely is in the DT pantheon. So many great moments. So many many memorable melodies that, when I think of them, my emotions get strongly stirred. Goosebumps and tears stirred.
And no, I don't usually feel like this when a new album comes out. I always love hearing their new stuff, and am content and happy with the couple of new classics from my fav band. But this whole thing (less FAS) is classic.
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This is the first album I've ever heard by them that there isn't a single song on the album I want to skip. They're ALL strong, in stark contrast with many of their albums.
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My thoughts after a couple of days now:
This may not only be the finest DT album for me, but the finest rock album I have ever heard. This is very, very special. This is the complete DT album I have been waiting for.
I agree, man. I'm convinced that this is a release that people will look back on decades from now as a landmark album. I can't say it's better than I&W, because that was a groundbreaking album. It kicked open the door for progressive metal. This new album refines the sound and represents a grown-up band that knows what it's doing after over 25 years and created perfection -- musically and lyrically. This will be what the Black album is to Metallica. DT is going to be MUCH more well-known among the general public a year from now after the album makes its rounds. I firmly believe that.
And they deserve the added spotlight that this album could potentially bring. This is an immensely talented band with a rich history that should be performing in arenas on a nightly basis.
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My thoughts after a couple of days now:
This may not only be the finest DT album for me, but the finest rock album I have ever heard. This is very, very special. This is the complete DT album I have been waiting for.
I agree, man. I'm convinced that this is a release that people will look back on decades from now as a landmark album. I can't say it's better than I&W, because that was a groundbreaking album. It kicked open the door for progressive metal. This new album refines the sound and represents a grown-up band that knows what it's doing after over 25 years and created perfection -- musically and lyrically. This will be what the Black album is to Metallica. DT is going to be MUCH more well-known among the general public a year from now after the album makes its rounds. I firmly believe that.
Couldn't agree more. That was a great way to describe it.
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It's interesting to me that a lot of people aren't liking "Enigma Machine". I love it. It's so cartoony, especially the riffing. It's got a unique feel to it.
There's a couple of riffs in there that remind me of LTE.
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My thoughts after a couple of days now:
This may not only be the finest DT album for me, but the finest rock album I have ever heard. This is very, very special. This is the complete DT album I have been waiting for.
I agree, man. I'm convinced that this is a release that people will look back on decades from now as a landmark album. I can't say it's better than I&W, because that was a groundbreaking album. It kicked open the door for progressive metal. This new album refines the sound and represents a grown-up band that knows what it's doing after over 25 years and created perfection -- musically and lyrically. This will be what the Black album is to Metallica. DT is going to be MUCH more well-known among the general public a year from now after the album makes its rounds. I firmly believe that.
Couldn't agree more. That was a great way to describe it.
I'm in the same boat as you all. This is a very special album and a great achievement in their career. A stunning level of mature songwriting and musicianship I didn't think they would actually get to.
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As an aspiring composer myself, here's what I would have done differently in Illumination Theory
1. Make the first riff at 1:20 come in with a bang (like in BITS) instead of starting in the background.
2. Remove the section from 3:09-3:20, so the section before goes straight into the one after.
3. Shorten the ambient section to 20-30 seconds.
4. Add a ridiculous unison/harmony (like the one at the end of the Outcry instrumental) leading up to the arrival of "Surrender, Trust, Passion" at 15:19.
5. Include a reprise of the orchestral theme in the final guitar solo.
But really, it's a magnificent song as it is.
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I think that one of the things that helps us appreciate this album more is the duration of the songs. Aside from IT, all the others are remarkably short in DT´s standards, and I think it keeps them fresh and not tiring to go through. I can´t remember another DT album where I was left wanting more at the end of each track and yet excited that another one was coming up.
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I'm so glad this will be my first DT album! :metal :hefdaddy :millahhhh :heart
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My thoughts after a couple of days now:
This may not only be the finest DT album for me, but the finest rock album I have ever heard. This is very, very special. This is the complete DT album I have been waiting for.
I agree, man. I'm convinced that this is a release that people will look back on decades from now as a landmark album. I can't say it's better than I&W, because that was a groundbreaking album. It kicked open the door for progressive metal. This new album refines the sound and represents a grown-up band that knows what it's doing after over 25 years and created perfection -- musically and lyrically. This will be what the Black album is to Metallica. DT is going to be MUCH more well-known among the general public a year from now after the album makes its rounds. I firmly believe that.
And they deserve the added spotlight that this album could potentially bring. This is an immensely talented band with a rich history that should be performing in arenas on a nightly basis.
By that, do you mean that this will signify the beginning of a rapid decline in songwriting? :angel:
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Don't know if it's been pointed out before, but I just realized this today: DT12 is the only Dream Theater album with only one song over 8 minutes.
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Don't know if it's been pointed out before, but I just realized this today: DT12 is the only Dream Theater album with only one song over 8 minutes.
That actually was pointed out earlier. But good catch, I had not realized it before that.
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Not surprised someone realized it before I did, but I thought it was a fun tidbit that showcases exactly how much restraint the DT guys have exercised in the songwriting on this album (that is, more restraint than on any previous album).
Anyway, I'm midway through my 6th or 7th listen. Another thing I'm realizing is that I don't really have any problems with the album. I'll jabber on for hours about all my various issues with Systematic Chaos, but I just don't have any criticisms this time around. Maybe I'm still honeymooning, but if there are any nontrivial imperfections with this record, they must be crazy subtle, because I can't find a single thing to complain about.
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I miss the days of really great soaring melodies. JLB seems content to just stay in the mid range for most of his vocals. The few times he did get up there were the best vocals on the album, though.
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Another thing I'm realizing is that I don't really have any problems with the album.
Same here. :metal
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There are a few things about the album that bother me, but they are nitpicky-like. The ending of The Looking Glass is a bit abrupt, but no big deal. etc.
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For me this album is the first where the individual sections are actually much better than the songs themselves.
IT is the perfect example of that. So many highlights that I love, but I don't even think of it as a song, and mostly want to skip to the good bits. It just doesn't work for me as a whole.
And on other songs there are some good choruses, but the songs do nothing for me, or the verses don't have a strong melody etc.
There are maybe 4/9 songs I like complete as is, and 2 of those are instrumental.
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I guess you just can't account for taste. Of course, some parts of the album are bound to be more memorable/exciting/cool than other parts, but I've found that on basically every DT album since Six Degrees, at least one song has a "what were they thinking?" moment. For me, that's just not the case for DT12. With DT12, I'm on board with every compositional decision the guys made. (So far, anyway.)
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I guess you just can't account for taste. Of course, some parts of the album are bound to be more memorable/exciting/cool than other parts, but I've found that on basically every DT album since Six Degrees, at least one song has a "what were they thinking?" moment. For me, that's just not the case for DT12. With DT12, I'm on board with every compositional decision the guys made. (So far, anyway.)
There are a lot of great ideas on the album, but for me none of the songs really "stick the landing", so to speak. I think it's a combination of the songs being a bit too condensed, and containing some weaker sections. I still struggle to recall a lot of the songs.
There's nothing on the album I'd call bad, but there's also nothing on this album I see cracking my top 50 (except maybe FAS, of all songs). For an album with such high peaks, that's not a good sign.
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Man oh man, the trilogy of The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil and Surrender to Reason really sneaks up on you. I have already went from "these songs have some cool things going on; I could see me really liking them a lot someday soon" to "These songs are absolutely killer." :coolio
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This album is so good, that i'm going to go as far to say that this is the album Dream Theater was destined to make. Mangini was the missing piece to the magical lineup that has created this masterpiece.
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Another song added to the favorite list is "The Looking Glass." That outro...
What outro? :lol The song basically just ends after the final chorus.
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Another song added to the favorite list is "The Looking Glass." That outro...
What outro? :lol The song basically just ends after the final chorus.
That's basically the only thing I don't like on this record. I remember noxon said that on his review defining some outros a bit awkward. Besides IT, the others are disappointing to me.
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Yeah, it definitely looks like in their effort to keep the songs short and concise, they've neglected to build elaborate outros for the majority of the album. Just hitting a chord and calling it quits happens far too much on this album, and I think a lot of the songs would have benefited from having even short outros written for them.
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Which is a shame because outros are their most constantly strong writing attribute.
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Yeah, it definitely looks like in their effort to keep the songs short and concise, they've neglected to build elaborate outros for the majority of the album. Just hitting a chord and calling it quits happens far too much on this album, and I think a lot of the songs would have benefited from having even short outros written for them.
Even shorter? Which songs do you refer to? Just curious.. :)
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Yeah, it definitely looks like in their effort to keep the songs short and concise, they've neglected to build elaborate outros for the majority of the album. Just hitting a chord and calling it quits happens far too much on this album, and I think a lot of the songs would have benefited from having even short outros written for them.
Even shorter? Which songs do you refer to? Just curious.. :)
Not shorter than what they already have :P I just meant that the songs didn't need long outros, just something more than the abrupt single chord that they currently have.
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I agree with Bolsters. The Looking Glass is really a beauty of a song, but it would have used a more fitting ending, something in the vein of Innocence Faded, for instance.
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I agree with you guys then. And yes, the Innocence Faded example you brought in it's a good one indeed.
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I have to disagree with the trending opinion, I really like how TLG ends, it does it in an unexpected way and I find it to be veeery prog-oriented. It makes you think "what the... I want more!!!!" and will lure you to the rest of the album.
Also, now that I know where it ends I've just got used to it and it sounds perfectly well to me. Just my opinion anyway =)
To those who said that this album is an astounding achievement and will be remembered ever after: I totally agree with you!
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For me the only awkward ending is TLG, although I still feel the wonderful theme introduced at the end of TBP could have been developed further as well.
All the other songs, while concise, are brought to fitting conclusions and work really well I think.
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For me the only awkward ending is TLG, although I still feel the wonderful theme introduced at the end of TBP could have been developed further as well.
All the other songs, while concise, are brought to fitting conclusions and work really well I think.
I really like the fact that it wasn't developed at all. The album is full of stunningly beautiful flashing images, and I just like it the way it is. Mind blowing little gems scattered everywhere... think of the string section - the easter egg - the TBP part you mentioned - the clean guitar verse in the first part of STR - and many others. It's just soooo varied and surprising... an ever-flowing stream of interchanging ideas and emotions.
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I'm so glad this will be my first DT album! :metal :hefdaddy :millahhhh :heart
You actually don't know what you're missing...
Hopefully you will discover there are many DT album better than this one. ;)
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I'm so glad this will be my first DT album! :metal :hefdaddy :millahhhh :heart
You actually don't know what you're missing...
Hopefully you will discover there are so many DT album better than this one. ;)
Opinion.
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I'm so glad this will be my first DT album! :metal :hefdaddy :millahhhh :heart
You actually don't know what you're missing...
Hopefully you will discover there are many DT album better than this one. ;)
She's been into DT for quite a while, judging from the post count. She might have heard an album or two. =)
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I'm so glad this will be my first DT album! :metal :hefdaddy :millahhhh :heart
You actually don't know what you're missing...
Hopefully you will discover there are so many DT album better than this one. ;)
Opinion.
Yep, my "opinion" is that "DT" is a very overestimated album.
Hope you will forgive me guys... :blush
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I just thought in the morning that Behind the Veil's atmosheric intro sounds like The Great Debate is played under Muse's Resistance!
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I just thought in the morning that Behind the Veil's atmosheric intro sounds like The Great Debate is played under Muse's Resistance!
"Muse inspiration", again... :facepalm:
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I just thought in the morning that Behind the Veil's atmosheric intro sounds like The Great Debate is played under Muse's Resistance!
"Muse inspiration", again... :facepalm:
Yes, Muse were the first ever band to use atmospheric sounds as a song introduction.
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I'm so glad this will be my first DT album! :metal :hefdaddy :millahhhh :heart
You actually don't know what you're missing...
Hopefully you will discover there are so many DT album better than this one. ;)
Opinion.
Yep, my "opinion" is that "DT" is a very overestimated album.
Hope you will forgive me guys... :blush
Opinion without quotes, or else you're implying that it's fact. My opinion (shared by many on this forum) is that it's among the better release DT has ever made. Still, it's only an opinion.
A tip is to give it more listens, true greatness tends to creep up on you ;-)
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The same fans who think that BC&SL was a masterpiece ?? :yeahright
I will follow your advice, and listen to it again and again and again and again... :tup
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This isn't aimed at any one person in this thread.
But after about 5 listens. 3 on the day and 1 per day since then. . .
I'm not exactly sure what more anyone could want in a Dream Theater album ?
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The same fans who think that BC&SL was a masterpiece ?? :yeahright
I will follow your advice, and listen to it again and again and again and again... :tup
It's fine. You don't like it, and I can respect that.
Awake has been my favorite album since I discovered the band in '06, and through out those 7 years I just kept listening to IaW, Awake, ACoS, SFaM, SDoIT, ToT and some songs from other albums, such as Ytse Jam, Repentance, TCoT or BAI.
But with DT the dynamic has changed. Is not necessary to be an obsessed fan in order to think something is different here, that there's something greater.
FAS is absolutely fantastic for a cinematic intro song; TEI, a technical and powerful piece of music, and easily to digest; TLG is heavily inspired in the IaW record, so we can notice some of the influences Dream Theater had back then; in order to enjoy EM, you have to accept it for what it is: a demonstration of instrumental virtuosity; TBP, one of the more acclaimed, hasn't clicked for me yet, so I won't say anything for now; BtV, one of the weakest, has the best instrumental plus ending verse section I've heard in many years; StR is without any doubt the LtL or BAI from this album; for AftR, I'll quote myself: "It's still surprising to me how much AftR ruins the atmosphere in just a second. The worst song from the album by far; and personally, the most ambience-killer musical piece Dream Theater has ever created"; IT... Well, that song is now part of my holy trinity.
So I guess there you have my album review, people.
sylvinception, don't be dogmatic.
Please excuse any possible mistake. Not my native language.
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Very sad to say that after 24 years and 12 studio albums worth of listening to, championing them to everyone I know and loving DT, that this is the first EVER release of theirs that there is not ONE song on the CD that I immediately wanted to hear again on first listen. And now, many many listens down the line in an effort to get a real feel for the album, I still have to say the same :(
Their only release that has ever left me feeling more disappointed after initial listens was SC. I'm glad a lot of people say they like it so far, but I think the passage of time will overcome the initial "heart over head" excitement type comments from a lot of people in here, that always happen when new music is released, and in a few months time this release will be generally ranked as very "average" in the history of DT's releases. Just hark back to all the over the top and "this is in my Top 3 albums by DT" type comments we got back when SC was released, to see where I'm coming from.
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I guess you just can't account for taste. Of course, some parts of the album are bound to be more memorable/exciting/cool than other parts, but I've found that on basically every DT album since Six Degrees, at least one song has a "what were they thinking?" moment. For me, that's just not the case for DT12. With DT12, I'm on board with every compositional decision the guys made. (So far, anyway.)
There are a lot of great ideas on the album, but for me none of the songs really "stick the landing", so to speak. I think it's a combination of the songs being a bit too condensed, and containing some weaker sections. I still struggle to recall a lot of the songs.
There's nothing on the album I'd call bad, but there's also nothing on this album I see cracking my top 50 (except maybe FAS, of all songs). For an album with such high peaks, that's not a good sign.
I think it's high time you realize you have a poor memory. If you keep finding yourself alone while blaming all the women you've known, sooner or later you must consider the possibility that it's been you all along. :)
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I guess you just can't account for taste. Of course, some parts of the album are bound to be more memorable/exciting/cool than other parts, but I've found that on basically every DT album since Six Degrees, at least one song has a "what were they thinking?" moment. For me, that's just not the case for DT12. With DT12, I'm on board with every compositional decision the guys made. (So far, anyway.)
There are a lot of great ideas on the album, but for me none of the songs really "stick the landing", so to speak. I think it's a combination of the songs being a bit too condensed, and containing some weaker sections. I still struggle to recall a lot of the songs.
There's nothing on the album I'd call bad, but there's also nothing on this album I see cracking my top 50 (except maybe FAS, of all songs). For an album with such high peaks, that's not a good sign.
I think it's high time you realize you have a poor memory. If you keep finding yourself alone while blaming all the women you've known, sooner or later you must consider the possibility that it's been you all along. :)
I think it's high time you don't try and judge me or my memory. I have a great memory for music, I just don't find about half of this album particularly memorable at all. The rest I mostly do.
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I really must work on my tone. Somehow, when I try to engage in fun banter it turns folks angry. My apologies, BVD, I thought that it might be fun for those of us of a certain age to make memory jokes. No real insult was intended.
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I honestly don't know what more the band could have done to please some of you lot.
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I really must work on my tone. Somehow, when I try to engage in fun banter it turns folks angry. My apologies, BVD, I thought that it might be fun for those of us of a certain age to make memory jokes. No real insult was intended.
No problem. I don't know you well, so I didn't get that tone from it! :tup
But let me put it this way - I remember the musical cue used in the movie Way of the Dragon whenever Bruce Lee needed to take a piss. I saw that movie once. Over a decade ago. :lol So I shall not allow my memory to be called into question!
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I like to imagine if Images and Words was released today if people would praise it as they do now. I think everyone is just extra critical after hearing 12 albums from the same band.
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I still haven't listened to the album but I snuck a listen of The Looking Glass to get me until the weekend. It is amazing. After one listen it's better than most of the songs on ADTOE and just sounds so fresh and old school. I will say the riff is a blatant Limelight rip, but I'll let JP off.
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Some people love it. Some people don't. Same with all music. You either make a connection with the music or you don't.
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I like to imagine if Images and Words was released today if people would praise it as they do now. I think everyone is just extra critical after hearing 12 albums from the same band.
Plus, when expectations are so high, there's bound to be something which doesn't live up to the expectations, no matter how good the material is. Every album needs time to age, and that truly says how good the piece is IMO.
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I honestly don't know what more the band could have done to please some of you lot.
Like anybody has an obligation to like their music or their decisions.
Right now, most of what I see is overexaggerated fanboy love-letters and criticism of the album. I'm going to go ahead and say that there was only a single moment for me throughout the whole album when I thought 'oh, this is going to be REALL good' but that feeling was ruined by the follow-up as well. And that feeling was in IT around 15:30, when the drums kick in.
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I guess you just can't account for taste. Of course, some parts of the album are bound to be more memorable/exciting/cool than other parts, but I've found that on basically every DT album since Six Degrees, at least one song has a "what were they thinking?" moment. For me, that's just not the case for DT12. With DT12, I'm on board with every compositional decision the guys made. (So far, anyway.)
There are a lot of great ideas on the album, but for me none of the songs really "stick the landing", so to speak. I think it's a combination of the songs being a bit too condensed, and containing some weaker sections. I still struggle to recall a lot of the songs.
There's nothing on the album I'd call bad, but there's also nothing on this album I see cracking my top 50 (except maybe FAS, of all songs). For an album with such high peaks, that's not a good sign.
I think it's high time you realize you have a poor memory. If you keep finding yourself alone while blaming all the women you've known, sooner or later you must consider the possibility that it's been you all along. :)
I think it's high time you don't try and judge me or my memory. I have a great memory for music, I just don't find about half of this album particularly memorable at all. The rest I mostly do.
I'm on the same side with Blob. BUT, you Blob have to give this album a few more spins because I just noticed after not listening to it for 2 days that many of the songs are much better now. It just needs time I think.
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Everything gets better when you get used to it.
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I'm on the same side with Blob. BUT, you Blob have to give this album a few more spins because I just noticed after not listening to it for 2 days that many of the songs are much better now. It just needs time I think.
I've had the album as long as noxon. I haven't listened to it as much as him in that time, but time I have had. There's a lot I love about the album, but there's also a lot of it that just doesn't click with me, and at this point I don't think ever will. :(
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To me this is easily the best Roadrunner album and probably my favourite since Octavarium.
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If I may stretch the analogy a little, this is kind of like DT's Black Album. Shorter songs with heavy riffs but also great melodies and choruses. I wish it would sell millions like TBA did.
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I'm on the same side with Blob. BUT, you Blob have to give this album a few more spins because I just noticed after not listening to it for 2 days that many of the songs are much better now. It just needs time I think.
I've had the album as long as noxon. I haven't listened to it as much as him in that time, but time I have had. There's a lot I love about the album, but there's also a lot of it that just doesn't click with me, and at this point I don't think ever will. :(
Oh okay I see. I hope it will still grow. So you are doing some sick live projections from this record too? I love those :)
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That would be good. But I also hope that it sells enough that they can continue to live comfortably.
If they suddenly raked in $20m each - there's always the risk of egos getting out of hand.
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My copy arrived today. Cant wait to listen to the 5.1 ;D
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If I may stretch the analogy a little, this is kind of like DT's Black Album. Shorter songs with heavy riffs but also great melodies and choruses. I wish it would sell millions like TBA did.
Sorry but I fail to see how this is like the Black album in any way, either musically or in the context of DT's/Metallica's career.
The Black album was a 180 shift in direction for tallica at the time, and it consisted of 12 hard rock songs with an average length of 5 minutes. It was released when rock in general was going thru a major shift and tallica had only released 4 prior studio albums.
DT however are 1000 times more diverse musically, have been around for 20+ years, released 11 studio albums, the songs are still long by radio standards, and the music isn't a shift at all for them.
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Got my copy in the mail today! My days of listening to not-so-good quality stream are now gone. :metal
I did however manage to reach 8 playthroughs before the cd arrived. Which I find impressive considering how much I'm playing GTA V at the moment. :biggrin:
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I think the passage of time will overcome the initial "heart over head" excitement type comments from a lot of people in here, that always happen when new music is released, and in a few months time this release will be generally ranked as very "average" in the history of DT's releases.
Come on now, that's a bit arrogant of you to suggest that people who love the album are just excited by new music. You don't like it, and that's cool. Lots of us love it, and that's also cool. And as has been mentioned multiple times, this is probably the most positive reaction the DT fanbase has had to a new album in a VERY long time.
Just hark back to all the over the top and "this is in my Top 3 albums by DT" type comments we got back when SC was released, to see where I'm coming from.
Er, what? A lot of people HATED SC when it came out. :lol
To me this is easily the best Roadrunner album and probably my favourite since Octavarium.
Aren't those two statements the same? :P
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adding myself to a group of people left disappointed after the first listen only to say after few listens that this is the best DT since SDOIT, perhaps even on par with SDOIT, SFAM. I&W is still untouchable for me but better than Awake in my eyes
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I like to imagine if Images and Words was released today if people would praise it as they do now. I think everyone is just extra critical after hearing 12 albums from the same band.
Plus, when expectations are so high, there's bound to be something which doesn't live up to the expectations, no matter how good the material is. Every album needs time to age, and that truly says how good the piece is IMO.
Much like the finest wines... :laugh:
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I think the passage of time will overcome the initial "heart over head" excitement type comments from a lot of people in here, that always happen when new music is released, and in a few months time this release will be generally ranked as very "average" in the history of DT's releases.
Come on now, that's a bit arrogant of you to suggest that people who love the album are just excited by new music. You don't like it, and that's cool. Lots of us love it, and that's also cool. And as has been mentioned multiple times, this is probably the most positive reaction the DT fanbase has had to a new album in a VERY long time.
Just hark back to all the over the top and "this is in my Top 3 albums by DT" type comments we got back when SC was released, to see where I'm coming from.
Er, what? A lot of people HATED SC when it came out. :lol
I'm actually curious to know what DT album has made the most "divide" between the fans (or at least here in dtf) where they either love it or hate it with passion, haha
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I'm actually curious to know what DT album has made the most "divide" between the fans (or at least here in dtf) where they either love it or hate it with passion, haha
Probably ToT because it essentially aliented the fans who don't like their heavy side.
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Having been there since the beginning I would say FII.
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I'm actually curious to know what DT album has made the most "divide" between the fans (or at least here in dtf) where they either love it or hate it with passion, haha
Probably ToT because it essentially aliented the fans who don't like their heavy side.
That is a common misconception. The idea that the band's more metal fans loved it and the band's more prog fans hated it, which some have suggested, was totally wrong.
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Lately, I would say the album with the biggest divide is Octavarium.
When it was first released, it was praised pretty decently, but very quickly, it became a low point in everybody's mind...and I feel like I saw it near the bottom of everyone's list.
I for one thought it was average when it came out...but it was also coming on the heels of a "burn out" phase for me where I had been listening to DT pretty much non-stop for 13 years straight.
But after I took a "DT break" for several months, and then revisited the album, I really became something that was everything I love about Dream Theater in a single album. Now I think it's my all time #1 favorite album by them. And I have noticed more and more over the last 3 or 4 years that it is creeping up more people's lists.
Now it seems that people either put it at the top, or at the absolute bottom. Once in awhile I'll see someone say it's "meh", but that's pretty rare. Mostly people either think it's DT's greatest achievement, or their biggest failure.
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Can't we all accept that each of us have our own opinions and taste for a band with a repertoire as diverse as DT?:)
The only album which i didn't like (other than WDNDU) was SC and after a few years of denying it's existence, i listened to it in its entirety and it is really not bad. I liked ItPoE though the other songs on the album were less memorable.
By the way, FII is awesome. While DT12 have not blown me away as much as SFAM on first listen, it gave me a better impression than the other albums...and yes that includes I&W :biggrin:
Nothing will replace SFAM though simply because nothing can replace my first experience listening to Dream theater after decades of listening to relatively simple pop music and Nickleback Rock ( I was young and naive back then!)
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Lately, I would say the album with the biggest divide is Octavarium.
It was, for me. After listening to that one I gave up on DT. Luckly, ADTOE came to save the day! :corn
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Another song added to the favorite list is "The Looking Glass." That outro...
What outro? :lol The song basically just ends after the final chorus.
Not another PMU joke.. :\
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I'm actually curious to know what DT album has made the most "divide" between the fans (or at least here in dtf) where they either love it or hate it with passion, haha
Probably ToT because it essentially aliented the fans who don't like their heavy side.
That is a common misconception. The idea that the band's more metal fans loved it and the band's more prog fans hated it, which some have suggested, was totally wrong.
Huh? There is no misconception. Of course people from both camps liked it, but generally speaking peeople that don't like DT for their metal side didn't enjoy the record (Vacant aside). It's the most one dimensional DT record by far (by their own choice of course) so naturally the division is quite black and white.
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Holy bananas! This album is seriously MEANT to be heard with some great headphones in 5.1. The mix was not something that bothered me, and to be honest - even after hearing it for all these years about I&W - i'm still not even sure what the heck a triggered drum is supposed to sound like - so that stuff doesn't bother me much. But all I know is when I play the 5.1 mix with my good headphones, it sound mind blowing! Booyahhh! :metal
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* yikes, double post *
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I remember Octavarium being savaged when it came out, particularly on the forums on...was it the official site back then? People were saying it was the most godawful album DT's ever done, though to be fair, 99% of that criticism seemed to be delivered at I Walk Beside You. I was actually surprised when I started posting here and found so many people regarded it and FII so highly, since at the time I'm talking about, even WDADU was held in higher esteem.
If people don't like DT12, fine. Isn't going to change the fact that four days in, it's the only album I've played. I love it, and I suspect it's going to sit fairly high in my DT rankings when I re-assess them in a few months once the New Album smell has worn off.
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I love the new album, and I agree about Octavarium. That and Black Clouds are my least-favorite albums, and I think a major part of that was MP's heavy influence. I loved his drumming, but I could care less about the rest of the crap from him. I love ToT; I think it is very consistent, probably my #3 behind SFAM and Awake.
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I remember Octavarium being savaged when it came out, particularly on the forums on...was it the official site back then? People were saying it was the most godawful album DT's ever done, though to be fair, 99% of that criticism seemed to be delivered at I Walk Beside You. I was actually surprised when I started posting here and found so many people regarded it and FII so highly, since at the time I'm talking about, even WDADU was held in higher esteem.
There wasn't an official forum back then. I believe that would have been DTF.com. And I recall Octavarium having an overall positive response when it came out, because I didn't like the album at all at first, and I recall most people enjoying it a lot more than I did.
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No Octavarium's release was definitely on the official DT.net forum. I remember because that was when I joined.
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No Octavarium's release was definitely on the official DT.net forum. I remember because that was when I joined.
Yeah I think you're right. I'm associating it with the plain green forum theme, which I recall being DTF.com, but I think there was a specific Octavarium forum theme on dt.net, with a banner and such.
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I'm still loving this album. The ONLY thing that really bothers me is the, IMO, bad vocal performance near the end of IT. The, "never know, never know, never know," section.
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I'm still loving this album. The ONLY thing that really bothers me is the, IMO, bad vocal performance near the end of IT. The, "never know, never know, never know," section.
this is the only thing kind of bothering me too :-\
not so much that its bad, its just a bit overkill and cheesy. I like that in james, but I've heard it before, and it just kills the songs climax for me :-[
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The chorus to The Bigger Picture has been stuck in my head since the other night but I only know the first line "Shed your light on me" so I found myself making up lyrics that sounds like/rhymes with the chorus and they were:
Shed your light on me (back vocals: shed your light on me baby)
Don't raise your voice to me
Keep your hands where I can see
The bigger picture
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Okay, so I was one of the few that came in here and bashed the album however I just finished listening to this album again since Tuesday and I have to say it finally clicked with me after like 6 listens. I don't know why it took me song long to like it since I usually like a new DT release from the first or second listen. This really is an amazing sounding album and I was totally wrong to bash it. I 'm not sure where I'd rank it since it just clicked with me but it's definitely better than anything they've done post SDOIT including ADTOE. So I just want to say that I was wrong and great job DT, this may be a DT classic.
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Okay, so I was one of the few that came in here and bashed the album however I just finished listening to this album again since Tuesday and I have to say it finally clicked with me after like 6 listens. I don't know why it took me song long to like it since I usually like a new DT release from the first or second listen. This really is an amazing sounding album and I was totally wrong to bash it. I 'm not sure where I'd rank it since it just clicked with me but it's definitely better than anything they've done post SDOIT including ADTOE. So I just want to say that I was wrong and great job DT, this may be a DT classic.
This makes me so happy to see! :biggrin:
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To me this is easily the best Roadrunner album and probably my favourite since Octavarium.
Aren't those two statements the same? :P
I guess but Octavarium is my favourite album so far.
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Ι really like the intro to "Behind The Veil". That's a very cool sound by Jordan, justified my curiosity about the Seaboard instrument.
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Ι really like the intro to "Behind The Veil". That's a very cool sound by Jordan, justified my curiosity about the Seaboard instrument.
That literally might be my favorite moment on the album. It is spectacular.
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Ι really like the intro to "Behind The Veil". That's a very cool sound by Jordan, justified my curiosity about the Seaboard instrument.
It is spectacular.
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Okay, so I was one of the few that came in here and bashed the album however I just finished listening to this album again since Tuesday and I have to say it finally clicked with me after like 6 listens. I don't know why it took me song long to like it since I usually like a new DT release from the first or second listen. This really is an amazing sounding album and I was totally wrong to bash it. I 'm not sure where I'd rank it since it just clicked with me but it's definitely better than anything they've done post SDOIT including ADTOE. So I just want to say that I was wrong and great job DT, this may be a DT classic.
Its weird how music can just click like that sometimes, its happened to me with DT records and tons of other music as well... Happy to hear you are enjoying it!
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The same fans who think that BC&SL was a masterpiece ?? :yeahright
I will follow your advice, and listen to it again and again and again and again... :tup
I don't know about the others, but I hold I&W and Awake as DT's best efforts, and I feel that DT12 is not far from those achievments.
That sounds great, keep listening :-)
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Apart from the album itself,how i wish JP did a group project,something like LTE again.An instrumental album,where the guitars don't need to be 'Dream Theater',keyboards don't have to sound like apps and the musicians push each other to the limits of their instrument and their imagination.An album full of fresh ideas and approach.I remember from the drummer auditions,he could get along with Thomas Lang.And after the DT album is done,he will have some time.Hoping...
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The same fans who think that BC&SL was a masterpiece ?? :yeahright
I will follow your advice, and listen to it again and again and again and again... :tup
No.... I've been a fan since '92, and I thought BCSL was a lower tier album (and SC was just terrible). But this album is just breathtakingly good.
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After about 10 listens, I'm loving the album. It's growing and growing every time I hear it. There is just so much to digest with it though. Really strong album.
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I am actually starting to enjoy Along For The Ride. I didn't really like it when it first came out.
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I am actually starting to enjoy Along For The Ride. I didn't really like it when it first came out.
I find it very interesting that so many people either still don't like that song or are just now having it click.
It was honestly one of the very first tracks to click for me, and I didn't even listen to it until the full album stream.
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^ likewise. It's a great, uplifting, feel good semi-ballad. I'm sure it's gonna work really well in a live setting.
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Coolest Nugget so far for me is The Looking Glass throwing back to Limelight with the intro and the lyric content. Whereas Limelight was about the pain of living in the public eye, TLG is about those who admire themselves for how popular they are, and the ways fame has inflated their ego to the point where they can't associate with the world when their 15 minutes are up.
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We're now four days into being able to hear the album, and not an hour has gone by while I've been awake in which I haven't been listening to this album.
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We're now four days into being able to hear the album, and not an hour has gone by while I've been awake in which I haven't been listening to this album.
Agreed. It was the same way for me though with ADTOE. I listened to it 150 times in the first week.
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We're now four days into being able to hear the album, and not an hour has gone by while I've been awake in which I haven't been listening to this album.
Agreed. It was the same way for me though with ADTOE. I listened to it 150 times in the first week.
I listened to my two favorite DT albums (6 Degrees and Scenes) this morning before starting up the stream again. It's fun to take a break from it. As of right now I don't think it will knock those two out of my favorite spot but it's real close. I will say this, it's certainly a whole different animal than those two albums!!
Six Degrees is so far out in left field--in a good way--that I don't know what JR & JP would need to do to get back into that headspace. I hope they do some day. I definitely think they have another Scenes in them though.
Anyway, DT12 is great. It's definitely blown my expectations away.
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I am aware that the album is great, but I still feel like I've got something really big and major to figure out about it. Wonder what that might be, but I hope it's not anything negative :justjen
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I tried to take a break from listening for the day, but gave in at 2pm. :metal
I got an email from RR about my pre-order, so hopefully I'll get to hear the 5.1 mix soon when my pre-order is delivered.
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The link doesn't seem to be working anymore, can anybody confirm that it's not just me having trouble listening
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So I'm loving every bit of the album up until IT. Then the first section of IT plays, and I'm all :metal But then it comes to an abrupt end and I'm all like :huh:
The symphonic part is amazing, but it all feels a little disjointed. Maybe I just need to give it more listens.
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The link doesn't seem to be working anymore, can anybody confirm that it's not just me having trouble listening
I had trouble this morning, but it´s working fine now...listening to IT again and again and again!!! We seeeek...to understaaaaand...
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Ahh well I'll just have to sustain myself with ADTOE and the singles for a while until its all back up and running :smiley:
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All the album is growing more and more. Absolutely blown away by The Bigger Picture and IT. Liking more Enigma Machine as well, dat riff!!
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All the album is growing more and more. Absolutely blown away by The Bigger Picture and IT. Liking more Enigma Machine as well, dat riff!!
Same here...and hey, the "watershed" section on IT is awesome!!!! I love every second of this track!!!
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What happens when the CD is out ? Do we keep discussing the album here ?
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It should be free game after release to discuss the album anywhere on the DT part of the forum.
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It should be free game after release to discuss the album anywhere on the DT part of the forum.
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So far, it's getting better with every listen. The Bigger Picture seems to click with me on a whole new level every time I listen to it, and I've had the Restless Angels bit from STR in my head all day.
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Im s******* my pants listening to this album for the first time. Half way through enigma. :metal
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current ranking (yes i know this is early but whatever)
The Bigger Picture
Surrender to Reason
The Looking Glass
Enigma Machine
Along for the Ride
Behind the Veil
False Awakening
The Enemy Inside
I cant rank Illumination Theory among them, I usually dont count the epics anyway because its too much to compare.
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Guys, I've got to say... A Dramatic Turn of Events is a really good album, but DT12 is on a different level. It's absolutely great, and I'm totally floored.
Oh, did I mention I haven't even tried listening to "Illumination Theory" yet?
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I've had the Restless Angels bit from STR in my head all day.
Likewise!
Pleased to say the album's beginning to grow on me a bit after a few more spins. After my first couple of listens, nothing grabbed me at all other than FAS, TEI (which I'd already heard several times), STR and IT. Beginning to get to grips with TBP and BTV now - could barely recall anything from them at first. EM has potential, but will take a few more listens I think. TLG is just not my cup of tea at all, doesn't do anything for me. AFTR I thought was bland and unmemorable when I first heard it, but I'm even starting to enjoy that now too (though I can't unhear Jordan's solo coming in 'late' after someone pointed it out!).
Unfortunately though, I don't see this album ever being a favourite of mine. I just miss the longer songs too much. I know a lot of people can be critical of DT writing long songs for the sake of it and I agree with this on Systematic Chaos and especially on Black Clouds - there was a lot of fat there that should have been trimmed. Otherwise, longer songs are what they do best for me - aside from IT, I don't see anything from this album that will get in to my top 20.
Seems like that's not a common opinion though and I'm pleased for the band at the positive reaction it's getting from most of the members here.
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The album seems to get better each time I listen to it.
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After listening a few times since Monday, I really think The Bigger Picture is my favorite tune. The last part, from ~6:00 on is just amazing. I keep going back to this track over and over. Perfect balance of JLB and heavy chords from JP.
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We're now four days into being able to hear the album, and not an hour has gone by while I've been awake in which I haven't been listening to this album.
Agreed. It was the same way for me though with ADTOE. I listened to it 150 times in the first week.
I've been like that for every new DT album up until ADTOE. For both ADTOE and DT12, I just never got that feeling. :(
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haven't heard it in a couple days but TLG is still stuck in my head. definitely disagree with anyone who said the hooks aren't memorable
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It's out on Spotify here in Norway today! The quality is defenitely better than on the stream, thats for sure.
I've been listening to this album once every day this week, and i think im able to give some thoughts now.
I think DT never will top 6DOIT, Scenes or Awake for me. However, i am a guy who likes all of their albums, even though some are ranked a lot lower than the top ones.
My ranking as of today will probably be:
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Scenes from a Memory
Awake
Octavarium
Images and Words
Dream Theater
A Dramatic Turn of Events
Falling into Infinity
Black Clouds and Silver Linings
Train of Thought
Systematic Chaos
When Dream and Day unite
A really solid effort, that is up there with the best. Its pretty much tied with ADTOE as of now, but i really liked that album.
The only song that haven't really clicked with me yet is Surrender to Reason, but its not bad by any means. After Behind The Veil i just feel like jumping into Illumination Theory, because it's fucking immense!
My first impressions was very varied. I instantly loved False Awakening, Enemy Inside and The Looking Glass. The other songs needed more sinking into, and i wasn't sure about Illumination Theory because there's so much going on.
My ranking of the album itself right now is like this:
Illumination Theory - I love this song now. The riffs are really clicking, and the vocal delivery is just fantastic!
The Bigger Picture - That outro :heart
The Enemy Inside - I love this song. So metal :yarr
False Awakening - Will be insane as a concert opener!
The Looking Glass - Love the vocal melodies and riffing on this one.
Behind The Veil - I love the chorus
Enigma Machine - Wasn't sure of this one at first, but its defenitely a cool piece!
Along for the ride - Nice ballad, i even like the solo
Surrender to reason - A good song, but havent really clicked yet.
This is defenitely a very solid effort, with no weak tracks - and i feel like every album since Scenes have had some weak tracks on it.
Probably their most overall solid effort since Scenes From A Memory, and their best since Octavarium.
4.5/5 :metal
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Seriously, the sound mix of the album is a real problem.
The album actually sound better on my computer - through the link - than the mp3 cd that I burned!!
Let's hope the sound of the cd will really be better... :\
If not, then I will have to replace my hifi material. :lol
I need the opinion of a specialist!! :loser:
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I agree that the mix is a bit bothersome at times.
Atleast on the softer parts. The intro on The Bigger Picture gets a bit ruined for me because of the gated snare drum.
The mix works very well on some of the heavier parts. Illumination Theory sounds great IMO!
However, they could have mixed up the snare-sound on some tracks. On False Awakening you get a couple of seconds of a drum roll with a better (more organic) snare-sound, but thats it.
However, i've been listening to this album so much that im starting to get used to the mix and can focus more on the actual songs.
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The mix is awesome, it's just your personal preferences that get in the way. Those people doing the mix are professionals, not amateurs (like you).
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The mix is awesome, it's just your personal preferences that get in the way. Those people doing the mix are professionals, not amateurs (like you).
You do not need to be a professional mixer to judge a mix, just as you don't need to be a professional musician to judge the music.
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The mix is awesome, it's just your personal preferences that get in the way. Those people doing the mix are professionals, not amateurs (like you).
You do not need to be a professional mixer to judge a mix, just as you don't need to be a professional musician to judge the music.
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We're now four days into being able to hear the album, and not an hour has gone by while I've been awake in which I haven't been listening to this album.
Agreed. It was the same way for me though with ADTOE. I listened to it 150 times in the first week.
I've been like that for every new DT album up until ADTOE. For both ADTOE and DT12, I just never got that feeling. :(
:( That's the worst...Hearing a new CD by your favourite band and not getting any reaction from it.
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Now that I have digested this album I can say the following:
DT12 is a strong, balanced and beautiful album. The guys are the best musicians in the world.
The bass, the drumming, the lyrics, the melodies, the vocals and the creativity side were all lifted to a higher level in this album.
What a perfect way to end this summer, thank you DT :biggrin:
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We're now four days into being able to hear the album, and not an hour has gone by while I've been awake in which I haven't been listening to this album.
Agreed. It was the same way for me though with ADTOE. I listened to it 150 times in the first week.
I've been like that for every new DT album up until ADTOE. For both ADTOE and DT12, I just never got that feeling. :(
:( That's the worst...Hearing a new CD by your favourite band and not getting any reaction from it.
I agree with this and unfortunately that's EXACTLY the "reaction" I get with this new CD. It just leaves me totally cold and without any desires to hear it again!. I listened to it 6 times on Mon and Tues to see if I could digest it and find that "missing link" but I haven't listened to it again since and don't miss it. I will give it another go next week when the proper CD arrives but I have no belief that the "missing link" for me will appear then either :( SOOOO disappointed and upset that I feel like this about the group I have loved for 24 years :(
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Guys, I've got to say... A Dramatic Turn of Events is a really good album, but DT12 is on a different level. It's absolutely great, and I'm totally floored.
I'm with you. I loved ADTOE, but this one, thus far, is just BEYOND
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With all my respect to all those who do not connect with this album (after all it is a matter of tastes), but are you sure your problem is not with the genre itself? I do not see how a person expecting a DT prog metal album is not liking this one? What were you expecting, what else can they do?
You go to the best 5 stars italian restaurant in town, they serve you the best pasta ever, and you don't like it ! Are you sure you like pasta in general? :biggrin: Just my thoughts.
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You do not need to be a professional mixer to judge a mix, just as you don't need to be a professional musician to judge the music.
It's an opinion, not a judgement. Everyone can judge others, but it doesn't make it right.
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Guys, I've got to say... A Dramatic Turn of Events is a really good album, but DT12 is on a different level. It's absolutely great, and I'm totally floored.
I'm with you. I loved ADTOE, but this one, thus far, is just BEYOND
I'm on a schedule to listen to all my favorite DT albums followed by listening to DT12. Alternating back and forth. I'm presently listening to ADTOE and it really is a great album, yet I must agree with the above. DT12 really is on a plateau far above!
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Just a quick question for anyone, is/was there an end date for the streaming of the album? Not seeing one mentioned on the pages or indeed on the first post here. Just I went to the ProgRockMag page today to give it a listen as I've finally got the time to site down and enjoy it and I'm just being told "sound not available for streaming in your location."
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This must be one of the most polarizing albums released by DT in a long time.
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This must be one of the most polarizing albums released by DT in a long time.
I don't know if I'd say that. The official reviews that are coming out are singing its praises. I wonder if maybe the forum community is larger now than it was for any previous release, so maybe that's why it seems to be like that? I have no idea, so if I'm wrong anyone, please feel free to correct me! :)
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So after about 10 more listens, I have determined that the album is split into two distinct groups for me:
1. Songs that I have no desire to ever hear again
- False Awakening Suite
- Enigma Machine
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory
2. Songs that I enjoy that are ruined by a terrible section
- The Enemy Inside - the whole 'I'm a burden' section. Some awful chordal choices here that remind me of Never Enough.
- The Looking Glass - The pre chorus/chorus - i hate it
- The Bigger Picture - the whole 'What if caught in moment' section - more horrible Never Enough chords and vocal melodies.
- Behind The Veil - this one is ok generally but the 1:20 minute intro is a waste of disc space imo
- Surrender To Reason - two words, THE CHORUS. The whole outro is an extension of this.
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So after about 10 more listens, I have determined that the album is split into two distinct groups for me:
1. Songs that I have no desire to ever hear again
- False Awakening Suite
- Enigma Machine
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory
2. Songs that I enjoy that are ruined by a terrible section
- The Enemy Inside - the whole 'I'm a burden' section. Some awful chordal choices here that remind me of Never Enough.
- The Looking Glass - The pre chorus/chorus - i hate it
- The Bigger Picture - the whole 'What if caught in moment' section - more horrible Never Enough chords and vocal melodies.
- Behind The Veil - this one is ok generally but the 1:20 minute intro is a waste of disc space imo
- Surrender To Reason - two words, THE CHORUS. The whole outro is an extension of this.
I respect you opinion. Mine is that I strongly disagree with everything you wrote. DT12 is fantastic from start to end IMO!
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With all my respect to all those who do not connect with this album (after all it is a matter of tastes), but are you sure your problem is not with the genre itself? I do not see how a person expecting a DT prog metal album is not liking this one? What were you expecting, what else can they do?
You go to the best 5 stars italian restaurant in town, they serve you the best pasta ever, and you don't like it ! Are you sure you like pasta in general? :biggrin: Just my thoughts.
Why are people so set on trying to explain away the negative opinions? (that isn't aimed just at you, I'm seeing a lot of this, unfortunately)
We're all DT fans here, so it's a pretty safe bet it's not an issue of genre. Every DT album pretty much falls under the same genre anyway.
Enjoying music is not about genre, or an objective checklist of what they did or didn't do on the album, it just comes down to whether you like it or not.
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This must be one of the most polarizing albums released by DT in a long time.
I don't know if I'd say that. I mean, in the poll section listed elsewhere...the feedback from this very forum is 80% positive. That's way beyond "super-majority"... I would define something "polarizing" as a bit more split down the middle. The negative feedback is very vocal, but in the extreme minority. A mile wide and an inch deep.
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So after about 10 more listens, I have determined that the album is split into two distinct groups for me:
1. Songs that I have no desire to ever hear again
- False Awakening Suite
- Enigma Machine
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory
2. Songs that I enjoy that are ruined by a terrible section
- The Enemy Inside - the whole 'I'm a burden' section. Some awful chordal choices here that remind me of Never Enough.
- The Looking Glass - The pre chorus/chorus - i hate it
- The Bigger Picture - the whole 'What if caught in moment' section - more horrible Never Enough chords and vocal melodies.
- Behind The Veil - this one is ok generally but the 1:20 minute intro is a waste of disc space imo
- Surrender To Reason - two words, THE CHORUS. The whole outro is an extension of this.
Considering your use of the words "terrible," "awful," and "horrible," you clearly are an expert at giving constructive criticism. :lol :lol
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I am baffled, JPX! The songs are not perfect, but if anything the "What if caught in a moment" is just a splendid emotional peak of the song (along with the solo).
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What a great new Dream Theater record! When I get home from work, all I really want is to listen to this record without doing anything else. ADTOE was disappointing to me, so that's a great feeling to have. The record + tour also didn't convince me that much yet, and I still very much missed Mike Portnoy in the band.
All I can say now is: Mangini stepped up to the plate, is musically integrated and just delivers an all around amazing performance. Not my favorite drum sounds, but at least it's got some weight to it that was missing on A Dramatic Turn of Events.
I'll always 'miss' Portnoy, especially when listening to Awake, Falling Into Infinity or Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, but the undeniable result this time is (IMO) that Dream Theater is their strongest album since Train of Thought. And it's with Mangini.
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So after about 10 more listens, I have determined that the album is split into two distinct groups for me:
1. Songs that I have no desire to ever hear again
- False Awakening Suite
- Enigma Machine
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory
2. Songs that I enjoy that are ruined by a terrible section
- The Enemy Inside - the whole 'I'm a burden' section. Some awful chordal choices here that remind me of Never Enough.
- The Looking Glass - The pre chorus/chorus - i hate it
- The Bigger Picture - the whole 'What if caught in moment' section - more horrible Never Enough chords and vocal melodies.
- Behind The Veil - this one is ok generally but the 1:20 minute intro is a waste of disc space imo
- Surrender To Reason - two words, THE CHORUS. The whole outro is an extension of this.
OK, so since the album obviously has no redeeming value for you, and we all now know your opinion about it, can I expect to see you stop posting in threads about the album? Just curious.
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This must be one of the most polarizing albums released by DT in a long time.
I don't know if I'd say that. The official reviews that are coming out are singing its praises. I wonder if maybe the forum community is larger now than it was for any previous release, so maybe that's why it seems to be like that? I have no idea, so if I'm wrong anyone, please feel free to correct me! :)
I'm no expert and I haven't read through the whole thread but it seems like a lot of the negativity comes from some of the newer posters
I gave the album two full listens (mostly while doing stuff so I haven't digested the album at all) but my impressions are this album is fantastic. I won't be able to compare it until the album has been digested by many listens but I'm not sure where the complaints come from.
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Don't know if it has been posted anywhere else, but if you follow the qr code in the booklet of the deluxe box edition you will find some nice extra features. Don't know about the other versions.
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I was just listening to the album at work and completely stopped working when The Bigger Picture started. I proceeded to just sit in awe and wonder for the next seven and a half minutes or so. I had previously listened to this song probably about 7 or 8 times and I thought it was really strong, but for some reason today this song completely clicked for me and took my enjoyment of it to a whole different level. I literally had goosebumps the entire song! What a great track!! :)
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So after about 10 more listens, I have determined that the album is split into two distinct groups for me:
1. Songs that I have no desire to ever hear again
- False Awakening Suite
- Enigma Machine
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory
2. Songs that I enjoy that are ruined by a terrible section
- The Enemy Inside - the whole 'I'm a burden' section. Some awful chordal choices here that remind me of Never Enough.
- The Looking Glass - The pre chorus/chorus - i hate it
- The Bigger Picture - the whole 'What if caught in moment' section - more horrible Never Enough chords and vocal melodies.
- Behind The Veil - this one is ok generally but the 1:20 minute intro is a waste of disc space imo
- Surrender To Reason - two words, THE CHORUS. The whole outro is an extension of this.
I imagine it must be hard to find girls you're attracted to, given that if they have just one "terrible section", the entire thing is ruined.
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:rollin :rollin :rollin
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What the heck? All those "terrible moments" that you mention are some of the high points on the album!
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What the heck? All those "terrible moments" that you mention are some of the high points on the album!
QFT, the pre chorus and chorus of TLG - hate it??!! WTF
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So after about 10 more listens, I have determined that the album is split into two distinct groups for me:
1. Songs that I have no desire to ever hear again
- False Awakening Suite
- Enigma Machine
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory
2. Songs that I enjoy that are ruined by a terrible section
- The Enemy Inside - the whole 'I'm a burden' section. Some awful chordal choices here that remind me of Never Enough.
- The Looking Glass - The pre chorus/chorus - i hate it
- The Bigger Picture - the whole 'What if caught in moment' section - more horrible Never Enough chords and vocal melodies.
- Behind The Veil - this one is ok generally but the 1:20 minute intro is a waste of disc space imo
- Surrender To Reason - two words, THE CHORUS. The whole outro is an extension of this.
I imagine it must be hard to find girls you're attracted to, given that if they have just one "terrible section", the entire thing is ruined.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Do you mean the caught up in your gravity part? That part completely sets the fucking tone for the chorus.
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Do you mean the caught up in your gravity part? That part completely sets the fucking tone for the chorus.
that is what I thought - and it is perfect!
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So after about 10 more listens, I have determined that the album is split into two distinct groups for me:
1. Songs that I have no desire to ever hear again
- False Awakening Suite
- Enigma Machine
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory
2. Songs that I enjoy that are ruined by a terrible section
- The Enemy Inside - the whole 'I'm a burden' section. Some awful chordal choices here that remind me of Never Enough.
- The Looking Glass - The pre chorus/chorus - i hate it
- The Bigger Picture - the whole 'What if caught in moment' section - more horrible Never Enough chords and vocal melodies.
- Behind The Veil - this one is ok generally but the 1:20 minute intro is a waste of disc space imo
- Surrender To Reason - two words, THE CHORUS. The whole outro is an extension of this.
Your posts have split into two distinct groups for me. One group is for the insipid posts and the other... okay your posts have split into one distinct group for me. :P
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The Looking Glass clicked for me, right now it's probably my favourite song of the album. *joins the brainwashed horde*
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:lol
Ruddy vikings! Welcome.
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Yep, this album is a grower, everything clicked after my 3rd listen.
It has some little problems here and there but I think it's pretty damn good.
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JP seems to use a lot of his 7-string on this album. From what I hear, I can hear it on The Enemy Inside, Enigma Machine, The Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil, and Illumination Theory.
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JP seems to use a lot of his 7-string on this album. From what I hear, I can hear it on The Enemy Inside, Enigma Machine, The Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil, and Illumination Theory.
Yep, although I think IT is just his baritone guitar. It might be 7-string tuned down to A though.
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JP seems to use a lot of his 7-string on this album. From what I hear, I can hear it on The Enemy Inside, Enigma Machine, The Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil, and Illumination Theory.
Yep, although I think IT is just his baritone guitar. It might be 7-string tuned down to A though.
FAS sounds like it has a lower tuned guitar as well, but I can't figure it out.
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So after about 10 more listens, I have determined that the album is split into two distinct groups for me:
1. Songs that I have no desire to ever hear again
- False Awakening Suite
- Enigma Machine
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory
2. Songs that I enjoy that are ruined by a terrible section
- The Enemy Inside - the whole 'I'm a burden' section. Some awful chordal choices here that remind me of Never Enough.
- The Looking Glass - The pre chorus/chorus - i hate it
- The Bigger Picture - the whole 'What if caught in moment' section - more horrible Never Enough chords and vocal melodies.
- Behind The Veil - this one is ok generally but the 1:20 minute intro is a waste of disc space imo
- Surrender To Reason - two words, THE CHORUS. The whole outro is an extension of this.
OK, so since the album obviously has no redeeming value for you, and we all now know your opinion about it, can I expect to see you stop posting in threads about the album? Just curious.
Come on Hef. I think you can say worse. I'm begging you. :lol
People and there opinions and how important they think they are that they have to say the same things over and over.
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OK, so since the album obviously has no redeeming value for you, and we all now know your opinion about it, can I expect to see you stop posting in threads about the album? Just curious.
This. I don't begrudge your opinion, but you've been griping about the refs, the offensive line play, the turf, the running game and the announcers for the entire 1st quarter. Can you pretty please let us enjoy the rest of the Super Bowl?
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This. I don't begrudge your opinion, but you've been griping about the refs, the offensive line play, the turf, the running game and the announcers for the entire 1st quarter. Can you pretty please let us enjoy the rest of the Super Bowl?
:clap: I appreciate the football reference.
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It just keeps getting better with every listen. FAS sounds absolutely amazing when played really loud.
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caught up in your gravity part
. . . . . . . is going to be a song title if I ever start a rock band, I swear this to you.
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:tup
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Does that mean that because I continue to love the album I should stop posting about it? I'm sure you all know my opinion by now.
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Come on Hef. I think you can say worse. I'm begging you. :lol
No, not trying to say worse, or anything bad at all, really.
I respect his opinion on the album (although I don't share it). I've just heard it. Many people seem to post glowing things about new things they discover on the album, and it just isn't working for him, for whatever reason.
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OK, so since the album obviously has no redeeming value for you, and we all now know your opinion about it, can I expect to see you stop posting in threads about the album? Just curious.
This. I don't begrudge your opinion, but you've been griping about the refs, the offensive line play, the turf, the running game and the announcers for the entire 1st quarter. Can you pretty please let us enjoy the rest of the Super Bowl?
Would you like us to make a thread where we can complain and give criticisms of the album? I feel like that wouldn't go over well.
With all my respect to all those who do not connect with this album (after all it is a matter of tastes), but are you sure your problem is not with the genre itself? I do not see how a person expecting a DT prog metal album is not liking this one? What were you expecting, what else can they do?
You go to the best 5 stars italian restaurant in town, they serve you the best pasta ever, and you don't like it ! Are you sure you like pasta in general? :biggrin: Just my thoughts.
It's definitely not the genre. Haken just put out the album of the year.
*disclaimer: I don't hate the album nor am I disappointed. Maybe that's because I've lowered my expectations after seeing what they've put out for the past 8 year. First listen, I rated it 4/5, second and third listen, I rated it 3/5. I'll keep listening and see if it's a grower.
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This. I don't begrudge your opinion, but you've been griping about the refs, the offensive line play, the turf, the running game and the announcers for the entire 1st quarter. Can you pretty please let us enjoy the rest of the Super Bowl?
Would you like us to make a thread where we can complain and give criticisms of the album? I feel like that wouldn't go over well.
Actually.......yeah. And I'd have a few things to contribute myself. Just because I love this doesn't mean I don't have my nitpicks. I think that is important to be able to be critical. But I feel like it's XMAS evening and everyone has had a second plate of the ham, and you have members of the family still trying to butcher the pig. It's deeeeeeeeeaaaaaaad!
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Also, someone said that it was mostly newer members showing hate. I was just going to say the opposite. I think I know what's really going on here. Most of all the people posting in the DT section are newer members. :lol
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I think this is the first time I can remember where it's hard to pick out any distinct groups among those who love or dislike the album. All the "oh the new/old fans will love/hate this one" doesn't seem to exist.
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I think this is the first time I can remember where it's hard to pick out any distinct groups among those who love or dislike the album. All the "oh the new/old fans will love/hate this one" doesn't seem to exist.
Well I'm a 21-year fan, and I'm shocked to my socks that I love it THIS much.
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I think this is the first time I can remember where it's hard to pick out any distinct groups among those who love or dislike the album. All the "oh the new/old fans will love/hate this one" doesn't seem to exist.
Well I'm a 21-year fan, and I'm shocked to my socks that I love it THIS much.
:tup
But yeah that's what I mean, most old fans and most new fans are liking/loving the album, and some older fans and some newer fans are not digging it. Same goes for any other major groups of people - I can't distinguish any trends or demographics at all, which I think says a lot for the universal appeal of the album. Of course some people just won't like it, and that's cool, but it's nice that there are no particular groups like that.
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Two of the most beautiful sections of music I've ever heard have been released this year. Sections that hit me hard.
Middle section of Luminol
Middle section of IT
They both take you away someplace else.
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Two of the most beautiful sections of music I've ever heard have been released this year. Sections that hit me hard.
Middle section of Luminol
Middle section of IT
They both take you away someplace else.
What :rollin
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Two of the most beautiful sections of music I've ever heard have been released this year. Sections that hit me hard.
Middle section of Luminol
Middle section of IT
They both take you away someplace else.
What :rollin
What's so funny?
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(https://25.media.tumblr.com/de765cf71784c8727c5c6d549633a645/tumblr_mtfw88IiV31qgg53uo1_1280.png)
Yeah!!! I can't believe that
Edit: Curse you, Bosk!
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I'm lost. Announcement about?
Halp..
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(https://25.media.tumblr.com/de765cf71784c8727c5c6d549633a645/tumblr_mtfw88IiV31qgg53uo1_1280.png)
Wut.
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I have been a DT fan of various levels over the last decade (from "this is cool", to fanboy, to ambivalent, back to fanboy) and I'm also in the "shocked I like it this much" category. I love this band, but figured I had listened to them so much, know their tricks, preferences, and styles so well, that their ability to inspire and leave me shocked would have diminished - but no.
This album displays in the spades the two qualities I always admired most about Dream Theater - a love of music of great breadth and depth and a commitment to always forging their own identity. The cutting-edge of prog metal is elsewhere now, but Dream Theater, as a band and a body of work, is stronger and more certain than ever. I can't wait for DT13 already...
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And bosk's post mysteriously vaporizes into thin air. oooo magic.
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Broke down and finally listened to the stream. Four words: Illlumination Theory Holy Sh$t.
Simply amazing.
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Can't believe the number of rude/ignorant people in here who have to make "clever and sarcastic" comments to anyone who dares not to think this is the greatest album ever released!!...Those people must be so full of themselves and so much up their own backsides that they can't possibly accept that a) different people have different opinions b) this is a forum where you are allowed to express your own opinions and c) that they can NEVER EVER be wrong with their own opinion. Its like 8 years olds in a school playing ground! Just grow up and accept the fact that not everyone has to agree with your own opinion and just because they don't, doesn't then give you the right to start acting the "Big man" and start being abusive. Jeez, I though DT fans were meant to be grown up!
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The Looking Glass lyrics are actually about Portnoy.
:corn
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The Looking Glass lyrics are actually about Portnoy.
:corn
:lol
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Wow I just found the EQ adjustment on the my PC, didn't know I had one LOL Anyways I boosted the low end and the high end a bit, what a difference in sound quality. :metal
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Can't believe the number of rude/ignorant people in here who have to make "clever and sarcastic" comments to anyone who dares not to think this is the greatest album ever released!!...Those people must be so full of themselves and so much up their own backsides that they can't possibly accept that a) different people have different opinions b) this is a forum where you are allowed to express your own opinions and c) that they can NEVER EVER be wrong with their own opinion. Its like 8 years olds in a school playing ground! Just grow up and accept the fact that not everyone has to agree with your own opinion and just because they don't, doesn't then give you the right to start acting the "Big man" and start being abusive. Jeez, I though DT fans were meant to be grown up!
Wait, who are you addressing with this post?
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Can't believe the number of rude/ignorant people in here who have to make "clever and sarcastic" comments to anyone who dares not to think this is the greatest album ever released!!...Those people must be so full of themselves and so much up their own backsides that they can't possibly accept that a) different people have different opinions b) this is a forum where you are allowed to express your own opinions and c) that they can NEVER EVER be wrong with their own opinion. Its like 8 years olds in a school playing ground! Just grow up and accept the fact that not everyone has to agree with your own opinion and just because they don't, doesn't then give you the right to start acting the "Big man" and start being abusive. Jeez, I though DT fans were meant to be grown up!
metrojam,
It might be helpful if you quoted specific posts that have you upset. There were a couple of slightly snide comments on the last page but the discussion quickly moved on. I see no point in upsetting the apple cart at this point.
[edit] Myung'd by ariich[/edit]
[2nd edit] I believe you are using 'ignorant' inappropriately.[/2nd edit]
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(https://i.cloudup.com/8BhEJJAhIW.gif)
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Can't believe the number of rude/ignorant people in here who have to make "clever and sarcastic" comments to anyone who dares not to think this is the greatest album ever released!!...Those people must be so full of themselves and so much up their own backsides that they can't possibly accept that a) different people have different opinions b) this is a forum where you are allowed to express your own opinions and c) that they can NEVER EVER be wrong with their own opinion. Its like 8 years olds in a school playing ground! Just grow up and accept the fact that not everyone has to agree with your own opinion and just because they don't, doesn't then give you the right to start acting the "Big man" and start being abusive. Jeez, I though DT fans were meant to be grown up!
::)
Lighten up there. There's a difference between giving a conflicting opinion with constructive criticism and outright bashing something because either you are just miserable and need to criticize everything or you can't come with something thought provoking to explain why you dislike something other than say, "That just sucks" or "That's just horrible" or "That song is stupid." I'll listen to someone say they dislike Dream Theater all day long as long as they are being intellectual about and not just using their vast monosyllabic vocabulary.
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Coolest Nugget so far for me is The Looking Glass throwing back to Limelight with the intro and the lyric content. Whereas Limelight was about the pain of living in the public eye, TLG is about those who admire themselves for how popular they are, and the ways fame has inflated their ego to the point where they can't associate with the world when their 15 minutes are up.
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TLG is about those who admire themselves for how popular they are, and the ways fame has inflated their ego to the point where they can't associate with the world when their 15 minutes are up.
Almost, but not quite - JP explained that the song is about the way people can become famous just by making vids of themselves and putting them online, and how there is a culture of people doing things like that purely for fame rather than for any sort of actual achievement.
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TLG is about those who admire themselves for how popular they are, and the ways fame has inflated their ego to the point where they can't associate with the world when their 15 minutes are up.
Almost, but not quite - JP explained that the song is about the way people can become famous just by making vids of themselves and putting them online, and how there is a culture of people doing things like that purely for fame rather than for any sort of actual achievement.
In other words, a modern Limelight.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/3qxwn.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/3qxwn)via Imgflip Meme Maker (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
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My dad just described Surrender to Reason as being lyrically weak.
Hes also an avid DT hater though
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TLG is about those who admire themselves for how popular they are, and the ways fame has inflated their ego to the point where they can't associate with the world when their 15 minutes are up.
Almost, but not quite - JP explained that the song is about the way people can become famous just by making vids of themselves and putting them online, and how there is a culture of people doing things like that purely for fame rather than for any sort of actual achievement.
Yeah I remember him saying that, but I got my view from the lyric
"Some will not admit that 15 minutes have expired/
Too much attention much too soon/
Don’t see you walking on the moon/
You are caught up in your gravity/
Bathing in the spotlight/
Imitating fame/"
But I don't disagree with Petrucci. That would be inane, his vision is ultimately the one we have to go with. I can only interpret further from it. :)
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Can't believe the number of rude/ignorant people in here who have to make "clever and sarcastic" comments to anyone who dares not to think this is the greatest album ever released!!...Those people must be so full of themselves and so much up their own backsides that they can't possibly accept that a) different people have different opinions b) this is a forum where you are allowed to express your own opinions and c) that they can NEVER EVER be wrong with their own opinion. Its like 8 years olds in a school playing ground! Just grow up and accept the fact that not everyone has to agree with your own opinion and just because they don't, doesn't then give you the right to start acting the "Big man" and start being abusive. Jeez, I though DT fans were meant to be grown up!
Considering that yours is probably the rudest post in the thread, I'm not sure what you are talking about.
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Can't believe the number of rude/ignorant people in here who have to make "clever and sarcastic" comments to anyone who dares not to think this is the greatest album ever released!!...Those people must be so full of themselves and so much up their own backsides that they can't possibly accept that a) different people have different opinions b) this is a forum where you are allowed to express your own opinions and c) that they can NEVER EVER be wrong with their own opinion. Its like 8 years olds in a school playing ground! Just grow up and accept the fact that not everyone has to agree with your own opinion and just because they don't, doesn't then give you the right to start acting the "Big man" and start being abusive. Jeez, I though DT fans were meant to be grown up!
This post is hilarious.
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TLG is about those who admire themselves for how popular they are, and the ways fame has inflated their ego to the point where they can't associate with the world when their 15 minutes are up.
Almost, but not quite - JP explained that the song is about the way people can become famous just by making vids of themselves and putting them online, and how there is a culture of people doing things like that purely for fame rather than for any sort of actual achievement.
In other words, a modern Limelight.
In more ways than one. Love it.
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Two of the most beautiful sections of music I've ever heard have been released this year. Sections that hit me hard.
Middle section of Luminol
Middle section of IT
They both take you away someplace else.
:tup Agree
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Come on Hef. I think you can say worse. I'm begging you. :lol
No, not trying to say worse, or anything bad at all, really.
I respect his opinion on the album (although I don't share it). I've just heard it. Many people seem to post glowing things about new things they discover on the album, and it just isn't working for him, for whatever reason.
I've read him bash it in every post. I get it. but to see it over and over just like someone praising the same thing over and over is just annoying.
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The feed keeps stopping on me and I can't restart it :facepalm:
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Someone explain to me what "Luminol" is, because I don't get it. XD
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Luminol is a song by Steven Wilson that has a spacey middle section just like IT does.
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Luminol is a song by Steven Wilson that has a spacey middle section just like IT does.
Shit. I totally spaced out on that one.
:neverusethis:
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TFW you try to air guitar The Enemy Inside and fail miserably.
TFW you try to headbang to Enigma Machine and fail miserably.
TFW Dream Theater.
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Perhaps I'm just caught up in the excitement of the new release, but at the moment I think that this very well could be the best work of their career. Yeah.
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So after about 10 more listens, I have determined that the album is split into two distinct groups for me:
1. Songs that I have no desire to ever hear again
- False Awakening Suite
- Enigma Machine
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory
2. Songs that I enjoy that are ruined by a terrible section
- The Enemy Inside - the whole 'I'm a burden' section. Some awful chordal choices here that remind me of Never Enough.
- The Looking Glass - The pre chorus/chorus - i hate it
- The Bigger Picture - the whole 'What if caught in moment' section - more horrible Never Enough chords and vocal melodies.
- Behind The Veil - this one is ok generally but the 1:20 minute intro is a waste of disc space imo
- Surrender To Reason - two words, THE CHORUS. The whole outro is an extension of this.
OK, so since the album obviously has no redeeming value for you, and we all now know your opinion about it, can I expect to see you stop posting in threads about the album? Just curious.
People and there opinions and how important they think they are that they have to say the same things over and over.
Actually if you've been paying attention there's no repetition.
I also hope that you recognize that I am giving this album every opportunity. I have listened to it 20+ times from start to finish. As I've stated before, DT is by far my favorite band...EVER... and they deserve more than me dismissing this record after just a few listens.
Therefore there isn't repetition, there's an evolution.
If you want me to shut up then that's fine. But I'm going thru a process here and purely verbalizing it. I'm sorry if it bothers you because the opinion isn't shared.
I'd be happy to make a list of passages that I love in this record. It just happens to be a shame that they are outweighed by the bad passages TO ME. This is further emphasized when a section I love is ruined by something that I find particularly abrasive. I guess I'm just used to DT delivering on a more consistent basis and I've become complacent.
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New album rankings:
Awake
DT12
Train of Thought
Images
FII
Octavarium
ADTOE
Scenes
Six Degrees
BCASL
SC
WDADU
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Can't believe the number of rude/ignorant people in here who have to make "clever and sarcastic" comments to anyone who dares not to think this is the greatest album ever released!!...Those people must be so full of themselves and so much up their own backsides that they can't possibly accept that a) different people have different opinions b) this is a forum where you are allowed to express your own opinions and c) that they can NEVER EVER be wrong with their own opinion. Its like 8 years olds in a school playing ground! Just grow up and accept the fact that not everyone has to agree with your own opinion and just because they don't, doesn't then give you the right to start acting the "Big man" and start being abusive. Jeez, I though DT fans were meant to be grown up!
Considering that yours is probably the rudest post in the thread, I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Still, there could be a little more respect on both sides. I know you've already had to warn a guy for making ":lol" posts at anyone posting things marginally critical of the album.
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Actually you have. you've bashed it from the beginning JPX. You can change the words but the story is the same. I'm ok with people not liking it. I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.
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Actually you have. you've bashed it from the beginning JPX. You can change the words but the story is the same. I'm ok with people not liking it. I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.
Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.
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Jeez, first time that I listened to it and there's so much to listen and discover. Illumination Theory was... Curious. I think I need it to digest it for a while. I didn't like some parts and some parts just blew my mind. I feel this is the first DT album since SFAM that doesn't give me a favourable or unfavourable impression right away. Need to adjust my ears to it... And of course, to hear it with a better sound. Only song that gave me a bad taste for the first time was Enigma Machine, and it wasn't that bad.
It's a strange feeling, I don't know if I'm the only one.
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Actually you have. you've bashed it from the beginning JPX. You can change the words but the story is the same. I'm ok with people not liking it. I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.
Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.
OK.
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I can't believe it. They did it again...
I have finally been turned. Everything is clicking now, all at the same time. My God, what is this salty discharge...
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Actually you have. you've bashed it from the beginning JPX. You can change the words but the story is the same. I'm ok with people not liking it. I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.
Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.
https://i.cloudup.com/8BhEJJAhIW.gif
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I can't believe it. They did it again...
I have finally been turned. Everything is clicking now, all at the same time. My God, what is this salty discharge...
<never mind....it wasn't that funny>
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I listened to False Awakening Suite....what a great opener.
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A little statistical factoid: Illumination Theory has just under 5 minutes of sections with vocals, giving it the smallest vocal/instrumental ratio of any Dream Theater song. Not counting the instrumentals, of course. I haven't calculated the exact numbers for the new album yet, although I have them for every other album.
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Interesting. I was just thinking about how little time James seems to be singing in IT -- parts 1 and 3 are instrumental, and in parts 4 and 5, there just isn't that much singing. And yet, James is still one of the highlights of the song.
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I can't believe it. They did it again...
I have finally been turned. Everything is clicking now, all at the same time. My God, what is this salty discharge...
Oh I really feel you, man.
I liked it from the very beginning, but Surrender To Reason just wasn't the one I expected. So I was just disappointed. Yesterday I started to listen to it, suddenly something changed. Like it was the first time I was listening to it. I felt that it was exactly perfect in the context of the album and that had great lyrics and that was so emotional that "Restless angels" part.
Interesting. I was just thinking about how little time James seems to be singing in IT -- parts 1 and 3 are instrumental, and in parts 4 and 5, there just isn't that much singing. And yet, James is still one of the highlights of the song.
True enough. He could sing even a single minute and give us goosebumps for the whole minute. So emotional.
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Actually you have. you've bashed it from the beginning JPX. You can change the words but the story is the same. I'm ok with people not liking it. I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.
Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.
https://i.cloudup.com/8BhEJJAhIW.gif
I don't know that there is any reason for ridiculing him. He's just being honest about his feelings. If you can't do that here, where can you do it?
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I also hope that you recognize that I am giving this album every opportunity. I have listened to it 20+ times from start to finish. As I've stated before, DT is by far my favorite band...EVER... and they deserve more than me dismissing this record after just a few listens.
Therefore there isn't repetition, there's an evolution.
If you want me to shut up then that's fine. But I'm going thru a process here and purely verbalizing it. I'm sorry if it bothers you because the opinion isn't shared.
Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.
Well, if this is true, then I really get how you might be "mourning" in this way. I'm also sorta touched by an awesome real encounter by 2 sides that vehemently disagree on an internet forum. I honestly don't mean to suppress anyone's opinion. It's sorta how I love my kids but sometimes I just want them to stop talking and go to their room, or go outside and play.
So anywho, I would suggest we all party together: we'll be drinking our Harp and Guinness and Heineken with stoooopid grins on our faces, and you guys can nurse your diet cokes kinda wishing that beer tasted yummy like it used to. And maybe a little less electricity in your criticisms would help us all talk it out.
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I will back off. Sometime really strong opinions, on both side irate me. It's dealing with people in real life like that irks me.
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This has been an interesting and even inspirational conversation about opinions. I'm happy to read JPX process his negative feelings toward the album and have noticed an ever so slight slide up. Even if his reasons makes me shake my head. :)
What I think may be helpful to those who post is not to stake a position where it's Dream Theater's "fault". That is off putting in both directions I think. Lets face it, we feel the way we feel because of the sum of our experiences and the place we're in at the moment. Prog music has always been that way and thus not as popular as other genres. If your not receptive to the concept it will just sound busy. It's not that it's bad music or that everyone who enjoys it is daft it's more about you (the listener not JPX specifically). Hey, if this were easy, DT would be the richest band in the world! :lol
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Actually you have. you've bashed it from the beginning JPX. You can change the words but the story is the same. I'm ok with people not liking it. I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.
Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.
https://i.cloudup.com/8BhEJJAhIW.gif
@ Bosk: This is what I'm talking about.
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A little statistical factoid: Illumination Theory has just under 5 minutes of sections with vocals, giving it the smallest vocal/instrumental ratio of any Dream Theater song. Not counting the instrumentals, of course. I haven't calculated the exact numbers for the new album yet, although I have them for every other album.
Cool. I'd be interested in seeing more of your numbers.
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Actually you have. you've bashed it from the beginning JPX. You can change the words but the story is the same. I'm ok with people not liking it. I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.
I'm not one that dislikes the album and it does get tiring seeing constant bashing on forums (e.g. posts about SC, BC&SL which no one complains about), but I'm pretty sure almost everyone is basically repeating their slightly updated opinion in different words but no one minds if it's positive.
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Actually you have. you've bashed it from the beginning JPX. You can change the words but the story is the same. I'm ok with people not liking it. I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.
Please don't mistake honesty with bashing. I have no agenda. Writing about my feelings is cathartic to a degree given that there are few people that I can express my feeling about DT with.
OK.
Well, he did say please. ;D
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This part here is worth the full album alone:
"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain
When you surrender to the light
You can face the darkest days
If you open up your eyes
And you put your trust in love
On those cold and endless nights
You will never be alone
Passion glows within your heart
Like a furnace burning bright
Until you struggle through the dark
You’ll never know the joy in life"
I´m listening to it now, and cannot think of a DT song that moved me in such a way since at least Octavarium.
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Agreed. The end of TBP is similarly moving to me.
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I just heard it again, and think it´s actually "Until you struggle through the dark
You’ll never know that you´re alive". Can someone confirm?
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I just heard it again, and think it´s actually "Until you struggle through the dark
You’ll never know that you´re alive". Can someone confirm?
I was thinking about this yesterday. "the joy or life" or "that you are alive"? Come hither, o people-with-booklets!
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Actually you have. you've bashed it from the beginning JPX. You can change the words but the story is the same. I'm ok with people not liking it. I just get tired of your agenda and how many times you need to tell us no matter how you spin it.
I'm not one that dislikes the album and it does get tiring seeing constant bashing on forums (e.g. posts about SC, BC&SL which no one complains about), but I'm pretty sure almost everyone is basically repeating their slightly updated opinion in different words but no one minds if it's positive.
You should really read my earlier post where I say I'm tired of both good and bad and the repetitive posts about the album. Not just the bad posts.
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I just heard it again, and think it´s actually "Until you struggle through the dark
You’ll never know that you´re alive". Can someone confirm?
That is right.
I just heard it again, and think it´s actually "Until you struggle through the dark
You’ll never know that you´re alive". Can someone confirm?
I was thinking about this yesterday. "the joy or life" or "that you are alive"? Come hither, o people-with-booklets!
The first bit in that movement (V. Surrender, Trust & Passion) starts with "To really feel the joy in life you must suffer through the pain". The last bit is exactly like Rodrigo said.
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:metal :metal :metal
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I got it today at my local store! Woohoo! :metal
B.Lee
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You should really read my earlier post where I say I'm tired of both good and bad and the repetitive posts about the album. Not just the bad posts.
So - you're tired of people talking about the album. :hat
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I also hear clearly "you'll never know that you're alive" at the end of IT.
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I know that *some* people have begun to get their pre-orders by mail.
Is there anyone who has one in hand who can say whether or not the weird crop in the artwork got fixed?
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If you're talking about the bad planet cut on the album cover, it has been fixed. I didn't pay a lot of attention to the mistakes in the artwork snippets when they were released, but at least the screw-ups in the pic with the piano and the acoustic guitar are still visible.
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NO SYME FOR DT13.
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NO SYME FOR DT13.
Hear hear!
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JOHN BAIZLEY FOR DT13
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STEVETHEATER FOR DT13.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=35515.0
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ANY RANDOM PERSON FOR DT13.
I'd totally hook my older sister up with DT, she's doing graduate work in illustration right now.
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STEVETHEATER FOR DT13.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=35515.0
:metal
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Phew, it was one hell of a ride! Love all the tracks so far but, my God, The Bigger Picture is awesome!
B.Lee
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Phew, it was one hell of a ride!
B.Lee
And we are all along for it :tup
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I wish JP did some back vox on this record, especially on The Bigger Picture.
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Phew, it was one hell of a ride!
B.Lee
And we are all along for it :tup
And That's the bigger picture !
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I wish JP did some back vox on this record, especially on The Bigger Picture.
I'm pretty sure he did do some backing vocals on a few tracks.
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You should really read my earlier post where I say I'm tired of both good and bad and the repetitive posts about the album. Not just the bad posts.
So - you're tired of people talking about the album. :hat
Not at all. It's the strongly opinionated that say the same thoughts over and over in multiple posts that bug me. I love the talk on the new album. People that come on strong bother me.
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Wanna go out some time?
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Wanna go out some time?
Watch out shmegland... He cuts a hole in the bottom of the popcorn bucket. I know this to be true....
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Got my box set today and the Jam midway through the Take Away My Pain video is better than anything on the new album IMO. That said, I think the album will be a slow builder on me, it hasn't really clicked just yet. I get more and more of the impression from watching that video that Mangini was already selected before the auditions began too, not that that's a bad thing, but a bit rude if they made the other 6 guys jump through hoops when the decision was already made.
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Got my box set today and the Jam midway through the Take Away My Pain video is better than anything on the new album IMO. That said, I think the album will be a slow builder on me, it hasn't really clicked just yet. I get more and more of the impression from watching that video that Mangini was already selected before the auditions began too, not that that's a bad thing, but a bit rude if they made the other 6 guys jump through hoops when the decision was already made.
I cannot remember the name of the drummer that impressed me in the auditions, but they seemed very impressed with him.
Seems his first name was Marco.
Since you brought up FII, I love the solo in Lines in the Sand and the two solos back to back in Trial of Tears. I have not listened to the cd yet(waiting on my iTunes preorder), but hopefully there will be a song or two to rival those two on FII.
Speaking of
-
Wanna go out some time?
I would be all over you like a hobo on a Big Mac.
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This has been an interesting and even inspirational conversation about opinions. I'm happy to read JPX process his negative feelings toward the album and have noticed an ever so slight slide up. Even if his reasons makes me shake my head. :)
What I think may be helpful to those who post is not to stake a position where it's Dream Theater's "fault". That is off putting in both directions I think. Lets face it, we feel the way we feel because of the sum of our experiences and the place we're in at the moment. Prog music has always been that way and thus not as popular as other genres. If your not receptive to the concept it will just sound busy. It's not that it's bad music or that everyone who enjoys it is daft it's more about you (the listener not JPX specifically). Hey, if this were easy, DT would be the richest band in the world! :lol
I appreciate those who have been understanding of my thoughts. As you can appreciate, it has been difficult for me not to enjoy this album as much as I had hoped. Rest assured however that my feeling towards DT have not changed in the least. They created a piece of work that they are proud of and just because I don't love it doesn't change the fact that they have done more for me as a person than I can even put into words.
So....to celebrate this and focus on the positives, these are passages I love from DT12.
The Enemy Inside
- I think they did an awesome job with the verses - really cool vocal lines over PMU type chords.
- Jordan's lead after the first chorus - great when JP mirrors it later too
The Looking Glass
- The Rush references are obvious, but I get an About to Crash feel whenever I hear the intro.
- The verses are refreshing and really enjoyable - they are a perfect vehicle for JLB's sweet spot.
- The solo - how can you not love it as a FII throw back.
The Bigger Picture
- The first heavy verse. Love the instrumentation and JLB's vocals here.
- JP's bridge lead - to me this typifies how amazing he truly is. Very few guitarists can write such simple yet emotional lines.
Behind The Veil
- The chorus is really good, love the hook that JP plays behind it
- The bridge - OK this is amazing - I&W-ish and a great way to lead into the solo
- The solo - his best on the record. I love when the feel changes.
Surrender To Reason
- Another beautiful bridge lead form JP. Reminds me of These Walls. So tasteful and simple.
- The choir passage after the bridge. I think this my favorite part of the whole album
:metal
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Wanna go out some time?
I would be all over you like a hobo on a Big Mac.
I won't be able to sleep tonight.
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They all say that at first until I'm through with them.
I am looking forward to cranking it in my car. My computer speakers are very good but the stream quality is not so. The drive home from Best Buy is something I always look forward to.
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They all say that at first until I'm through with them.
I'm so wet right now.
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Got my box set today and the Jam midway through the Take Away My Pain video is better than anything on the new album IMO. That said, I think the album will be a slow builder on me, it hasn't really clicked just yet. I get more and more of the impression from watching that video that Mangini was already selected before the auditions began too, not that that's a bad thing, but a bit rude if they made the other 6 guys jump through hoops when the decision was already made.
I actually somewhat agree. I actually don't think the other guys ever had all that much chance, not so much based on their playing skills, but rather their overall status. Marco is a pretty hot drummer these days, and I think he knows that. To be the drummer for a late-career band would have seriously curtailed his own career.
Donati was never in the running to begin with (too big a name), nor really Priester or Wildoer (foreigners), so Ruddy is the only one remaining. He was alright, but the only one reasonably being able to play MP's parts was MM.
Frankly, I think they enticed most of the others with a free trip to New York and possible later collaboration. For maybe $10k RoadRunner got a documentary that assuaged a lot of doubters who didn't think anybody could succeed MP.
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Hey Rumby,
I agree with everything you said about the drummers, but for Marco, I'll add some personal thoughts : indeed, he is a very hot drummer these days, but does his reputation exceed circle musics? I mean, I sense that DT are appealing to more audience outside these circles and I think they have a bigger name there than Marco. I'm not a musician, so, of course, I may be wrong. Plus, the vibe I got from Marco's audition was the same I had with MP : please, let there be light on me! And I don't think the guys wanted another MP in the band. But these are only impressions, no truths whatsoever and I wouldn't be bold enough as to present them as such.
B.Lee
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When are we going to hear the Mangini jam from the limited edition,does anyone have any idea?
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AFTR is my favourite right now, it's just incredible musically, even though it's rather simple for DT standards, and the lyrics are some of JP's best ever :tup
Second favourite is TBP, followed closely by TEI and BTV. IT and STR haven't completely clicked yet, but even those two contain some incredible sections.
I'm in love with this album. As great as ADTOE was, this one is even better and totally exceeded my expectations :metal
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Someone pointed out that the little drum break in Enigma Machine is just screaming for an extended drum solo when they do it live!! :metal
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Someone pointed out that the little drum break in Enigma Machine is just screaming for an extended drum solo when they do it live!! :metal
It might be, yep!
B.Lee
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Only found about this forum recently but have been a member on MP forum for a few years. Have tried to hold off from going too overboard about this until I have given it plenty of listens but am now ready to declare my love for it. It's everything you could want from a DT album, gorgeous melodies, great riffs awesome solos and a 20 min epic, just incredible performances from all 5 members. I now have the cd and think these are Petrucci's best lyrics in aeons. I'm also going to go against the consensus here and say that I think the artwork is awesome. You may spot little imperfections if you get your magnifying glass out. In terms of just being eye candy to look at while listening to the album, I think it is the best on any DT album. So many bands don't even bother with artwork and we should congratulate DT for making the effort rather than constantly criticise every tiny imperfection.
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Got my box set today and the Jam midway through the Take Away My Pain video is better than anything on the new album IMO. That said, I think the album will be a slow builder on me, it hasn't really clicked just yet. I get more and more of the impression from watching that video that Mangini was already selected before the auditions began too, not that that's a bad thing, but a bit rude if they made the other 6 guys jump through hoops when the decision was already made.
I actually somewhat agree. I actually don't think the other guys ever had all that much chance, not so much based on their playing skills, but rather their overall status. Marco is a pretty hot drummer these days, and I think he knows that. To be the drummer for a late-career band would have seriously curtailed his own career.
Donati was never in the running to begin with (too big a name), nor really Priester or Wildoer (foreigners), so Ruddy is the only one remaining. He was alright, but the only one reasonably being able to play MP's parts was MM.
Frankly, I think they enticed most of the others with a free trip to New York and possible later collaboration. For maybe $10k RoadRunner got a documentary that assuaged a lot of doubters who didn't think anybody could succeed MP.
I haven't seen the video yet, but I agree that there wasn't really a competition because it was crystal clear who they would choose, once it also became clear that Marco wasn't even interested in joining the band.
I think this 30 minute film is what pushed me over the edge for the box set.
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Revised rankings:
1. Illumination Theory
2. The Bigger Picture
3. The Looking Glass
4. Surrender to Reason
5. Enigma Machine
6. Behind the Veil
7. Along For the Ride
8. The Enemy Inside
9. False Awakening Suite (It's great, but it's a bit short)
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Got my box set today and the Jam midway through the Take Away My Pain video is better than anything on the new album IMO. That said, I think the album will be a slow builder on me, it hasn't really clicked just yet. I get more and more of the impression from watching that video that Mangini was already selected before the auditions began too, not that that's a bad thing, but a bit rude if they made the other 6 guys jump through hoops when the decision was already made.
I actually somewhat agree. I actually don't think the other guys ever had all that much chance, not so much based on their playing skills, but rather their overall status. Marco is a pretty hot drummer these days, and I think he knows that. To be the drummer for a late-career band would have seriously curtailed his own career.
Donati was never in the running to begin with (too big a name), nor really Priester or Wildoer (foreigners), so Ruddy is the only one remaining. He was alright, but the only one reasonably being able to play MP's parts was MM.
Frankly, I think they enticed most of the others with a free trip to New York and possible later collaboration. For maybe $10k RoadRunner got a documentary that assuaged a lot of doubters who didn't think anybody could succeed MP.
I haven't seen the video yet, but I agree that there wasn't really a competition because it was crystal clear who they would choose, once it also became clear that Marco wasn't even interested in joining the band.
I think this 30 minute film is what pushed me over the edge for the box set.
Agreed with everyone here. It was painfully obvious that they were gonna go with MM.
By the way, has anyone scanned the QR code in the booklet? What's on it?
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Ok, let's make an attempt at ranking:
1. Illumination Theory
2. The Bigger Picture
3. Surrender to Reason
4. Behind the Veil
5. Enigma Machine
6. The Enemy Inside
7. Along for the Ride
8. The Looking Glass
9. False Awakening Suite
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1. The Bigger Picture
2. Illumination Theory
3. Along for the Ride
4. Surrender to Reason
5. The Looking Glass
6. Behind the Veil
7. The Enemy Inside
8. Enigma Machine
9. False Awakening Suite
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1. Surrender to Reason
2. Illumination Theory
3. Behind the Veil
4. The Bigger Picture
5. Along for the Ride
6. The Looking Glass
7. The Enemy Inside
8. Enigma Machine
9. False Awakening Suite
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1. The Looking Glass
2. Illumination Theory
3. Surrender To Reason
4. Behind The Veil
5. Along For The Ride
6. The Bigger Picture
7. The Enemy Inside
8. Enigma Machine
9. False Awakening Suite
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1. Surrender To Reason
2. Illumination Theory
3. Behind The Veil
4. The Bigger Picture
5. The Looking Glass
6. Along For The Ride
7. Enigma Machine
8. The Enemy Inside
9. False Awakening Suite
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Attempt at ranking:
1. Illumination Theory
2. Behind The Veil
3. Enigma Machine
4. The Enemy Inside
5. Along for the Ride
6. The Bigger Picture
7. False Awakening Suite
8. The Looking Glass
9. Surrender to Reason
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1. Illumination Theory
2. Behind The Vale
3. The Enemy Inside
4. The Looking Glass
5. Surrender To Reason
6. Enigma Machine
7. The Bigger Picture
8. False Awakening Suite
9. Along For The Ride
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1.Surrender To Reason
2.Illumination Theory
3.The Looking Glass
4.False Awakening Suite
5.Behind The Veil
6.The Bigger Picture
7.The Enemy Inside
8.Enigma Machine
9.Along For The Ride
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1. Along for the Ride
2. The Looking Glass
3. Enigma Machine
4. Illumination Theory
5. Behind The Veil
6. The Enemy Inside
7. Surrender to Reason
8. The Bigger Picture
9. False Awakening Suite
(but I like all of them!)
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1. Behind the Veil
2. The Bigger Picture
3. Along for the Ride
4. Surrender to Reason
5. The Looking Glass
6. Illumination Theory
7-9. False Awakening Suite, The Enemy Inside, Enigma Machine (can't come up with an order, all are equally meh)
I'll post my mini-review tomorrow.
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I really don't get why FAS so underrated .. Such a masterpiece
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1. Illumination Theory (10/10)
2. The Enemy Inside (9.5/10)
3. Enigma Machine (9/10)
4. Behind the Veil (9/10)
5. Surrender to Reason (8/10)
6. False Awakening Suite (8/10)
7. The Bigger Picture (7/10)
8. The Looking Glass (6/10)
9. Along for the Ride (5/10)
(My median ranking for DT songs is 8/10)
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I really don't get why FAS so underrated .. Such a masterpiece
I agree! It's compact, cinematic, logical and entertaining!
My father loves it too, he always asks for it to be played first whenever we are in the car.
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Initial rankings:
1. The Bigger Picture
2. The Looking Glass
3. Behind the Veil
4. Illumination Theory
5. Along for the Ride
6. Enigma Machine
7. The Enemy Inside
8. Surrender to Reason
9. False Awakening Suite
It's all amazing...and I wouldn't rate a single song below an 8/10. FAS is only at the bottom because...well...it's just an intro. A cool intro, but not really a "song"...
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I really don't get why FAS so underrated .. Such a masterpiece
It is good, sure. But a bit short to earn a high ranking spot for me.
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Just finished The Looking Glass....That was exactly what I was hoping DT would do again. An uplifting song that just drives, akin to UAGM, IF and AFIL. This may very well end up being my favorite DT album.
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I might post my rankings after my next listen, which will be on the release date. I could maybe do it now, but I want to be a bit more sure about them.
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https://open.spotify.com/album/2yzeTza4DXX5XpzJYY7CXO
Just finished listening on Spotify and there's so much more top end compared to the Soundcloud stream that it's ridiculous.
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As of now:
1. The Bigger Picture
2. Illumination Theory
3. Surrender to Reason
4. Along for the Ride
5. The Looking Glass
6. Behind the Veil
7. The Enemy Inside
8. Enigma Machine
9. False Awakening Suite
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1. The Bigger Picture
2. The Looking Glass
3. Illumination Theory
4. Surrender to Reason
5. Behind the Veil
6. The Enemy Inside
7. False Awakening Suite
8. Along for the Ride
9. Enigma Machine
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1.Illumination Theory
2.The Bigger Picture
3.Behind The Veil
4.Surrender To Reason
5.False Awakening Suite
6.The Looking Glass
7.Enigma Machine
8.Along For The Ride
9.The Enemy Inside
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I really don't get why FAS so underrated .. Such a masterpiece
I think it's probably the strongest track on the album. It packs a lot in to such a short time span. It's condensed goodness!
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Oh man let's see...
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender To Reason
3. The Bigger Picture
4. The Enemy inside
5. Behind The Veil
6. The Looking Glass
7. Along For The Ride
8. Enigma Machine
9. False Awakening Suite
Disclaimer: I think FAS is fuckin badass.
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Yea, FAS is fucking awesome, but it suffers in the 'rankings' because of its length. It has some awesome moments, but not many awesome moments as some of the other songs.
-
*subject to change*
1. Surrender to Reason
2. The Bigger Picture
3. Illumination Theory
4. The Looking Glass
5. The Enemy Inside
6. Enigma Machine
7. Behind the Veil
8. Along for the Ride
9. FAS
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As of this moment:
The Looking Glass
The Bigger Picture
Surrender to Reason
False Awakening Suite
Illumination Theory
Behind the Veil
Along for the Ride
The Enemy Inside
Enigma Machine
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This is going to be a struggle to rank because each song is great for their own reasons~
For now:
1) Illumination Theory ( JLB performance here is phenomenal and does anyone else get a Beyond this Life vibe from the solos? BTL was my first DT song so perhaps biasness :D )
2) Behind the Veil ( Chorus ..Wow. Plus the Song evolves so much in 6 minutes. I would like to say it surpasses it's Megadeth influences.)
3) Surrender to Reason ( Restless Angels..Restless Angels..and that sweet 12 string at the start)
4) The Bigger Picture (The start of what i feel is the best 3 consecutive songs on the album. )
5) FAS (Epic stuff. Looking forward to seeing this during the tour!)
6) The Looking Glass (The Limelight comparison is apt. Same theme and similar riffs. It is a good song but the rest are just so great that this gets overshadowed)
7) Enigma Machine. ( I still have not warmed up to it yet. Perhaps it is too complex for me..or maybe i prefer songs with JLB. The drumming is insane though)
7) TEI ( Awesome song but the other songs are more ...proggy and more interesting to hear)
8) AFTR. (Last because the other songs are almost head and shoulders above it. Not a bad song per se.)
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1 - Illumination Theory
2 - The Bigger Picture
3 - Surrender To Reason
4 - Behind The Veil
5 - Enigma Machine
6 - False Awakening Suite
7 - Along For The Ride
8 - The Enemy Inside
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1 - Illumination Theory
2 - The Bigger Picture
3 - Surrender To Reason
4 - Behind The Veil
5 - Enigma Machine
6 - False Awakening Suite
7 - Along For The Ride
8 - The Enemy Inside
I'm trying to look through something, but I can't seem to find it... :o
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I decided to upgrade my basic ipod earbuds to better enjoy this album, so I bought some decent Harman/Kardon earbuds, which provided more clarity but the sound seems louder now and much more compressed to the point you get tired. Maybe I should stick to the old ipod earbuds? Has anyone witnessed such thing?
-
I decided to upgrade my basic ipod earbuds to better enjoy this album, so I bought some decent Harman/Kardon earbuds, which provided more clarity but the sound seems louder now and much more compressed to the point you get tired. Maybe I should stick to the old ipod earbuds? Has anyone witnessed such thing?
Oh, all the time. I have a set of decent 70€ headphones and listening to music there can be really tiring for the ears, because of both the lining touching the whole ear (and I'm very sensible to alteration of temperature in that zone) and the regular music feeling more compressed or muddy.
-
I decided to upgrade my basic ipod earbuds to better enjoy this album, so I bought some decent Harman/Kardon earbuds, which provided more clarity but the sound seems louder now and much more compressed to the point you get tired. Maybe I should stick to the old ipod earbuds? Has anyone witnessed such thing?
Oh, all the time. I have a set of decent 70€ headphones and listening to music there can be really tiring for the ears, because of both the lining touching the whole ear (and I'm very sensible to alteration of temperature in that zone) and the regular music feeling more compressed or muddy.
YOUR AVATAR
I HADN'T SEEN IT YET
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I decided to upgrade my basic ipod earbuds to better enjoy this album, so I bought some decent Harman/Kardon earbuds, which provided more clarity but the sound seems louder now and much more compressed to the point you get tired. Maybe I should stick to the old ipod earbuds? Has anyone witnessed such thing?
Oh, all the time. I have a set of decent 70€ headphones and listening to music there can be really tiring for the ears, because of both the lining touching the whole ear (and I'm very sensible to alteration of temperature in that zone) and the regular music feeling more compressed or muddy.
Ah thanks :) The thing you did to your avatar is a winner :lol
Maybe I will try to change the ipod eq settings, any recommendations for the best eq settings for DT12?
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I decided to upgrade my basic ipod earbuds to better enjoy this album, so I bought some decent Harman/Kardon earbuds, which provided more clarity but the sound seems louder now and much more compressed to the point you get tired. Maybe I should stick to the old ipod earbuds? Has anyone witnessed such thing?
Oh, all the time. I have a set of decent 70€ headphones and listening to music there can be really tiring for the ears, because of both the lining touching the whole ear (and I'm very sensible to alteration of temperature in that zone) and the regular music feeling more compressed or muddy.
YOUR AVATAR
I HADN'T SEEN IT YET
Now you undestand what I meant when I said "I might change it in the past". It was already like this when you revealed me that I am The Doctor :lol
-
1 - Illumination Theory
2 - The Bigger Picture
3 - Surrender To Reason
4 - Behind The Veil
5 - Enigma Machine
6 - False Awakening Suite
7 - Along For The Ride
8 - The Enemy Inside
I'm trying to look through something, but I can't seem to find it... :o
:rollin :rollin that was a good one :tup (that happens when I sleep less than 6 hours as well :lol)
1 - Illumination Theory
2 - The Bigger Picture
3 - Surrender To Reason
4 - Behind The Veil
5 - Enigma Machine
6 - False Awakening Suite
7 - The Looking Glass
8 - Along For The Ride
9 - The Enemy Inside
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Now you undestand what I meant when I said "I might change it in the past". It was already like this when you revealed me that I am The Doctor :lol
Mind=blown :biggrin:
-
Got my copy and I'm two listenings in. Wow. So much to digest! Liking it A LOT so far!
-
Current ranking:
- 1 ==> The bigger picture
- 2 ==> Illumination theory
- 3 ==> Surrender to reason
- 4 ==> FAS + The enemy inside (both part of the same song for me)
- 5 ==> The looking glass
- 6 ==> Along for the ride
- 7 ==> Behind the veil
- 8 ==> Enigma machine.
:metal
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Fucking Brilliant. As an album my favorite by far since Images and Words. Not a single song that I jump over on listen-throughs (I have streamed it about 15 times start to finish with quite a few re-listens to individual tracks to pick up nuances and just cause I didnt want to change the vibe to the next song yet.)
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1 - Illumination Theory
2 - The Bigger Picture
3 - Surrender To Reason
4 - Behind The Veil
5 - The Looking Glass
6 - The Enemy Inside
7 - Along For The Ride
8 - False Awakening Suite
9 - Enigma Machine
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My ranking of the "DT" songs as of now:
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender to Reason
3. The Bigger Picture
4. The Looking Glass
5. False Awakening Suite
6. Behind The Veil
7. Enigma Machine
8. The Enemy Inside
9. Along for the Ride
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Ok so I'm still waiting for my amazon delivery later this week, but the autorip mp3s became available this morning so I downloaded them.
For anyone else who's done this - is it just me or does it sound a bit more compressed than the stream? I'm not sure what it is but it sounds a bit too OTT whereas the stream sounded fine to me.
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Ok so I'm still waiting for my amazon delivery later this week, but the autorip mp3s became available this morning so I downloaded them.
For anyone else who's done this - is it just me or does it sound a bit more compressed than the stream? I'm not sure what it is but it sounds a bit too OTT whereas the stream sounded fine to me.
Totally agree with you, I have the same feeling!!
And I really hope the official cd will have a great fucking sound... :chill
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Hey guys. Have a question here. For the Roadrunner Digital Album, are the tracks in mp3?FLAC? First time ordering a digital album. All the CD stores in my country seems to have disappear off the map :angry:
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I believe they're FLAC, but I guess there's easy ways to convert that to mp3 if you need to :)
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I got my copy this morning. Sounds great. Looking forward to hearing the 5.1 mix soon.
-
For anyone that missed it in the "thoughts" thread below...
My new review is up on The Jammin Dude Show..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNYH0eBr94U
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Listening now. Of course there's a "your mileage may vary" in there :lol
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I believe they're FLAC, but I guess there's easy ways to convert that to mp3 if you need to :)
They're FLAC, also included in the boxset a code to download the album.
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Ok so I'm still waiting for my amazon delivery later this week, but the autorip mp3s became available this morning so I downloaded them.
For anyone else who's done this - is it just me or does it sound a bit more compressed than the stream? I'm not sure what it is but it sounds a bit too OTT whereas the stream sounded fine to me.
I listened on Spotify at midnight today and it sounded way brighter than the stream for sure. About the same compression wise.
It may have been my iMac's volume limiter but heavier songs seemed to start louder than the last song finished.
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MY COPY ARRIVED TODAY!!! :D :biggrin: :biggrin:
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I've been trying to put my finger on what it is about this album that feels so much different to me than the last several. I figured it
out. It's emotion. It's present in every members playing and it connects with me like the early DT did. The more I hear this the more
I think it may be a top 3 and dare I say, at times maybe flirt with #1.
I never thought DT would ever do that to me again. Rush did it to me with Clockwork Angels and now DT. Amazing.
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I love it when your favourite bands have been treading water for a few albums and then all of a sudden they put out an absolute corker.
Therapy? did it with Crooked Timber. It was a stunning album - which came out after their worst album to date.
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I love it when my favorite band put out great albums after great albums after great albums.
Otherwise, they wouldn't be my favorite band.
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I love it when my favorite band put out great albums after great albums after great albums.
Otherwise, they wouldn't be my favorite band.
::) ::) Oh, so you're one of THOSE that - when your favourite band puts out a difficult album - you stop liking them.
Gotcha.
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Well, it hasn't happened yet. I can't imagine it ever will, with Dream Theater. But yes, I've stopped caring about other bands that did not produce the required bulk of good stuff. But they were never considered "favorite" to begin with. I was just fooling around with them and not looking for a long term relationship. There can only be one. For me.
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I was just fooling around with them and not looking for a long term relationship.
... What?
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Well, since I'm currently in a town where probably the number of CD players is probably smaller than the number of CD stores in my home town, I couldn't really get my hands on this, so I got my dad to buy it for me and to Dropbox it for me, and I have to say that I'm enjoying it quite a bit more than earlier. While I'm not usually one that for whom the sound quality is a turn-off, it does make a difference, and I'm liking it a lot more. Currently on TEI and it's even more badass than I remembered. :metal
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1 - Surrender to Reason
2 - Illumination Theory
3 - The Looking Glass
4 - Enigma Machine
5 - False Awakening
6 - Along For The Ride
7 - The Enemy Inside
8 - The Bigger Picture
9 - Behind the Veil
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1. Illumination Theory 10/10
2. The Bigger Picture 9.5/10
3. The Looking Glass 9.5/10
4. Surrender to Reason 9.25/10
5. Enigma Machine 9/10
6. Behind the Veil 8.5/10
7. The Enemy Inside 8.25/10
8. False Awakening Suite 8/10
9. Along for the Ride 7/10
Overall, as one amazing hour long musical experience, and including the fact that a song like IT obviously has way more weight than small tunes like FAS and Along for the Ride, the album is a 9.50/10. Right up there with ADToE for me, even though the two sound completely different.
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Octavarium
Six Degrees
Illumination Theory
In the Name Of God
In The Presence Of Enemies ( 1&2 )
The Count Of Tuscany
Additional : I wonder how long that would be with all that on one album :lol
Edit : About 148 minutes. 2 and a half hours.
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Octavarium
Six Degrees
Illumination Theory
In the Name Of God
In The Presence Of Enemies ( 1&2 )
The Count Of Tuscany
Additional : I wonder how long that would be with all that on one album :lol
2 hours and 28 minutes. :P
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Gonna try picking up the album tomorrow along with the new Haken. :)
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Octavarium
Six Degrees
Illumination Theory
In the Name Of God
In The Presence Of Enemies ( 1&2 )
The Count Of Tuscany
Additional : I wonder how long that would be with all that on one album :lol
2 hours and 28 minutes. :P
Worth knowing on a long journey !
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I have determined today that Behind The Veil is a great song. :metal
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I have determined today that Behind The Veil is a great song. :metal
Love the intro In particular. Really cool solo too
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BTV is the BITS of DT12 for me. Not quality wise (although I love BTV, BITS is on a totally different level), but because of the noise intro, every riff being both badass and catchy, the verses being a lot different from each other, a really memorable instrumental section and of course DAT CHORUS :o
This might be a weird comparison, but what the hell.
-
Maybe it's no coincidence that BITS is my favorite song on ADTOE and BTV is my fave on the new album :D
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I've been trying to put my finger on what it is about this album that feels so much different to me than the last several. I figured it
out. It's emotion. It's present in every members playing and it connects with me like the early DT did. The more I hear this the more
I think it may be a top 3 and dare I say, at times maybe flirt with #1.
I never thought DT would ever do that to me again. Rush did it to me with Clockwork Angels and now DT. Amazing.
For me it's the complete opposite. I have no emotional connection to this album whatsoever, whereas I have at least *some* emotional connection to all other DT albums.
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Octavarium
Six Degrees
Illumination Theory
In the Name Of God
In The Presence Of Enemies ( 1&2 )
The Count Of Tuscany
Six Degrees
The Count of Tuscany
In the Presence of Enemies 1+2
Illumination Theory
Octavarium
Far From Heaven/Beneath the Surface
AA Suite
In the Name of God
I guess I blew up the whole what is and what isn't an "epic" categorization there, probably inviting someone to post "SFaM" cleverly at the top, but I'm staring at this list like :omg: :hefdaddy :tup
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Surely you mean BAI rather than BTS!
And I find it quite offensive that both of you have left off ACOS.
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1. Surrender to Reason 9/10
2. Illumination Theory 8.5/10
3. The Enemy Inside 8/10
4. Behind the Veil 7.5/10
5. The Bigger Picture 7.5/10
6. Enigma Machine 6.5/10
7. False Awakening Suite 6/10
8. The Looking Glass 5.5/10
9. Along for the Ride 5/10
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1. The Looking Glass 9.5/10
2. Behind the Veil 8.5/10
3. The Bigger Picture 8/10
3. The Enemy Inside 8/10
5. Illumination Theory 7.5/10
6. Enigma Machine 7/10
7. False Awakening Suite 6.5/10
8. Surrender to Reason 6/10
9. Along for the Ride 5.5/10
Overall 7.5/10
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AFTR last? What :o
-
Hmmm, let's try:
The Bigger Picture 8/10
The Looking Glass 8/10
Illumination Theory 7/10
The Enemy Inside 6.5/10
Behind the Veil 6.5/10
Surrender to Reason 6/10
Enigma Machine 5.5/10
Along for the Ride 5.5/10
False Awakening Suite 5.5/10
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Surely you mean BAI rather than BTS!
And I find it quite offensive that both of you have left off ACOS.
I don't like ACOS.
-
Octavarium
Six Degrees
Illumination Theory
In the Name Of God
In The Presence Of Enemies ( 1&2 )
The Count Of Tuscany
Six Degrees
The Count of Tuscany
In the Presence of Enemies 1+2
Illumination Theory
Octavarium
Far From Heaven/Beneath the Surface
AA Suite
In the Name of God
I guess I blew up the whole what is and what isn't an "epic" categorization there, probably inviting someone to post "SFaM" cleverly at the top, but I'm staring at this list like :omg: :hefdaddy :tup
Wait, shouldn't ACOS appear in those lists?
-
Counting 'official' epics.
1. A Change of Seasons
2. Octavarium
3. Illumination Theory
4. The Count of Tuscany
They only have four? They're all great though.
Oops.. forgot about one.
5. In the Presence of Enemies (Part 1 is fantastic, don't care about part 2).
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Counting 'official' epics.
1. A Change of Seasons
2. Octavarium
3. Illumination Theory
4. The Count of Tuscany
They only have four? They're all great though.
Oops.. forgot about one.
5. In the Presence of Enemies (Part 1 is fantastic, don't care about part 2).
I'll add Six Degrees to my list.
1. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
2. A Change Of Seasons
3. Illumination Theory
4. The Count of Tuscany
5. In The Presence of Enemies
6. Octavarium
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Counting 'official' epics.
1. A Change of Seasons
2. Octavarium
3. Illumination Theory
4. The Count of Tuscany
They only have four? They're all great though.
Oops.. forgot about one.
5. In the Presence of Enemies (Part 1 is fantastic, don't care about part 2).
So ITPOE and SDOIT are not "official epics" ???
EDIT: sort of Myung'd two times.
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Surely you mean BAI rather than BTS!
And I find it quite offensive that both of you have left off ACOS.
I don't like ACOS.
:justjen :yeahright :omg:
-
I find it really disjointed and sounds like they threw together a bunch of bits & bobs that weren't working in their parent songs and made one song out of it.
I've listened to it a few times and can't get into it.
-
And I find it quite offensive that both of you have left off ACOS.
Agreed
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And I find it quite offensive that both of you have left off ACOS.
Agreed
Octavarium
Six Degrees
Illumination Theory
In the Name Of God
In The Presence Of Enemies ( 1&2 )
The Count Of Tuscany
A Change Of Seasons.
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And I find it quite offensive that both of you have left off ACOS.
Agreed
Octavarium
Six Degrees
Illumination Theory
In the Name Of God
In The Presence Of Enemies ( 1&2 )
The Count Of Tuscany
A Change Of Seasons.
ACOS below ITPOE? :tdwn
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I'd rank ACOS the lowest of their epics too. I agree with Kotowboy's assessment that it feels like bits put together, like a giant ball of play-doh made of small scraps of random colours of play-doh. I still like it, but I'd rather listen to any of their more recent epics.
-
Current ranking of epics:
1. ACOS
2. SDOIT
3. 8V
4. ITPOE
5. IT
6. TCOT
-
1. ACOS
2. 8VM
3. SDOIT
4. TCOT
5. ITPOE
6. IT
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1. ACOS
2. SDOIT
3. IT
4. 8VM
5. TCOT
6. ITPOE
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I don't know why we're ranking epics in the DT12 thread, but I'll bite. :lol
1. SDOIT
2. 8VM
3. IT
4. TCOT
5. ITPOE
6. ACOS
3-6 subject to change depending on the lunar cycle.
-
Is ADTOE the first album since Scenes From A Memory that doesn't end on a 15+ min song ?
[Unless you count Far From Heaven / Breaking All Illusions as one song then it's 16.4 mins long )
-
I don't know for you guys, but it's been a hell of a time that I did not hear the bass of JM so clearly. :tup
At last!! :metal
-
1. 8VM
2. ItPoE
3. ACoS
4. IT
5. TCoT
6. 6DoIT
Illumination Theory is still settling in, so it could conceivably rise to #2. The top 5 are all in my DT top 10 - yes I'm a sucker for the long epics
-
I don't know for you guys, but it's been a hell of a time that I did not hear JM's bass so clearly. :tup
At last!! :metal
Hello Myung, so glad to hear you my friend - it's been a while.
-
@Kotow: No, ITNOG is only 14 minutes long.
1. 8VM
2. ACoS
3. ITPOE
4. TCoT
5. SDOIT
6. IT
-
Is ADTOE the first album since Scenes From A Memory that doesn't end on a 15+ min song ?
[Unless you count Far From Heaven / Breaking All Illusions as one song then it's 16.4 mins long )
I would never count FFH and BAI as one song.
So yes, they did a three album run where the last song was 15+.
-
I can't see myself ranking anything from DT. :\ Everything they release has it's use, and shine most in their own moments. As for this album, in it's own, it has something for every mood.
-
[Unless you count Far From Heaven / Breaking All Illusions as one song then it's 16.4 mins long )
Stop cheating. ;)
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I don't know for you guys, but it's been a hell of a time that I did not hear JM's bass so clearly. :tup
At last!! :metal
Hello Myung, so glad to hear you my friend - it's been a while.
:hefdaddy
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Tough...but I'll take a stab.
1. Octavarium
2. A Change of Seasons
3. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
4. The Count of Tuscany
5. In the Name of God
6. In the Presence of Enemies
Too soon to put in IT....but in my mind, it's fighting with SDOIT for the #3 spot.
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Tough...but I'll take a stab.
1. Octavarium
2. A Change of Seasons
3. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
4. The Count of Tuscany
5. In the Name of God
6. In the Presence of Enemies
Too soon to put in IT....but in my mind, it's fighting with SDOIT for the #3 spot.
Similar to mine, except switch the 1st and 2nd songs. :D
I would love to see ACOS brought back to the set once or twice.
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Is ADTOE the first album since Scenes From A Memory that doesn't end on a 15+ min song ?
[Unless you count Far From Heaven / Breaking All Illusions as one song then it's 16.4 mins long )
No one should ever do that.
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Is ADTOE the first album since Scenes From A Memory that doesn't end on a 15+ min song ?
[Unless you count Far From Heaven / Breaking All Illusions as one song then it's 16.4 mins long )
No one should ever do that.
Wait.. Those aren't even the two last tracks. Unless he is thinking of the water drops at the end of BAI segueing into BTS?
-
Every single DT epic song has received the criticism of being "disjointed" or "random bits thrown together" by one person or another who just doesn't like that particular song. So to use that as a knock on ACOS while praising another epic that has also been criticized for the same reason is confusing to me.
-
Epic Ranking:
1. A Change of Seasons
2. Octavarium
3. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
4. Illumination Theory
5. The Count of Tuscany
6. In the Name of God
7. In the Presence of Enemies
Song Ranking:
1. Illumination Theory - 9.5/10
2. The Bigger Picture - 9/10
3. Behind the Veil - 9/10
4. Along for the Ride - 9/10
5. Enigma Machine - 8.5/10
6. The Looking Glass - 8.5/10
7. False Awakening Suite - 8.5.10
8. Surrender to Reason - 8/10
9. The Enemy Inside - 6.5/10
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Why the hell are we ranking the epics in this thread?
-
I'd actually enjoyed them more if TLG & TBP were both for about 3-4 minutes longer. I feel like there's to them :/
-
Why the hell are we ranking the epics in this thread?
-
After listening the album a couple more times, Illumination Theory doesn't seem as awesome as the first two times and The Looking Glass has already become one of my favorite DT songs ever.
-
So I got DT12.
-
So I got DT12.
:tup What do you think of it?
-
On IT now. So far, album's really good. Definitely liking more than I did ADTOE the first time.
-
Why the hell are we ranking the epics in this thread?
It does say a lot about IT to show where it ranks compared to DT's previous epics.
I think I'd put IT as 3rd behind Octavarium and SDOIT.
-
Why the hell are we ranking the epics in this thread?
Why the hell not ? :angry:
-
Took a half day at work today to spend my afternoon listening to the record. I'm really liking it so far, especially The Looking Glass, Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason, and Along for the Ride. In all, it's a solid record, and worthy of being self-titled.
My only complaint is the snare sound. Being a drummer, the snare sound just doesn't fit the rest of the kit, or the rest of the mix. I mean, there's so much clarity, definition, and power in the toms and the kicks, and then the snare sounds like the top head was covered by a blanket that was immobilized by duct tape. Don Henley would be proud! If this record had, say Peter Wildoer's snare sound from Impermanent Resonance, I'd be much happier. That's just me being very particular about drum sounds, however.
But, that is my only complaint. This record sounds amazing otherwise. In all, it sounds like they had fun making this record. :metal
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Serious question. Now that the album is out, is there any reason for this thread to remain open?
-
No
-
Serious question. Now that the album is out, is there any reason for this thread to remain open?
But maybe to preserve all the discussion in one single thread instead of fragmenting it, this could be downtoned to a simple DT12 discussion thread, maybe steering at the same time the "your thoughts on DT12" toward a more review-oriented format. Or just cut the bull's head and can one of the two without mercy.
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Misheard lyric time !!!!!
1. You are caught up in your gravity. Glorifying Magnets !! Singing your own praise.
2.Never be crippled by chaos and doubt. Fall prey to the magnets !!!
Now I know why some people are either hugely attracted to this album or repelled by it :neverusethis:
-
Well, before the lock, I'll just rank the big six epics here:
(The Fountain of Lamneth)
Octavarium/Illumination Theory TIED
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
(Hemispheres)
The Count of Tuscany
In the Presence of Enemies
(2112)
A Change of Seasons
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Misheard lyric time !!!!!
1. You are caught up in your gravity. Glorifying Magnets !! Singing your own praise.
2.Never be crippled by chaos and doubt. Fall prey to the magnets !!!
Now I know why some people are either hugely attracted to this album or repelled by it :neverusethis:
:rollin
-
1. Illumination Theory - 9.9/10
2. The Looking Glass - 9.3/10
3. The Enemy Inside - 9.0/10
4. Surrender to Reason - 9.0/10
5. The Bigger Picture - 8.5/10
6. Enigma Machine - 8.5/10
7. Behind the Veil - 8.5/10
8. False Awakening Suite - 8.5/10
9. Along for the Ride - 8.0/10
Overall the most consitent album since Scenes from A memory to me.
-
Watching the Mangini drum audition video now. For those of who you didn't pony up for the box set, the video is actually an extended episode of the Spirit Carries On documentary, professionally edited, and includes extra footage of Mike in hotel room, driving from Boston, deleted footage of the band members commenting on Mike and the concept of jamming, etc. Its really cool.
As for the jam itself--- strap on your astronaut diapers, folks!
The tightness of the jamming is evidence of how they melded together as a cohesive unit from day one.
-
"Dream Theater" is definitely a great album :metal...but it still out of reach from my top 3 (Awake, Images & words and 6DOIT).
-
Watching the Mangini drum audition video now. For those of who you didn't pony up for the box set, the video is actually an extended episode of the Spirit Carries On documentary, professionally edited, and includes extra footage of Mike in hotel room, driving from Boston, deleted footage of the band members commenting on Mike and the concept of jamming, etc. Its really cool.
As for the jam itself--- strap on your astronaut diapers, folks!
The tightness of the jamming is evidence of how they melded together as a cohesive unit from day one.
Damn, that sounds great. If only i had the money to get the box set...
-
Personally I wouldn't buy it even if I had the money.
Tired of all this business to get more and more money from the fans.
-
Personally I wouldn't buy it even if I had the money.
Tired of all this business to get more and more money from the fans.
Well actually i would buy it if it had the HDTracks master, i won't buy a brickwalled version just for the goodies.
-
It's funny to compare people's reactions to this album in France and in the US.
In France (see and translate by yourself on the YourMajesty forum), the album is much, much less appreciated than in your country...and it's an euphemism. :omg:
-
It's funny to compare people's reactions to this album in France and in the US.
In France (see and translate by yourself on the YourMajesty forum), the album is much, much less appreciated than in your country...and it's an euphemism. :omg:
Well that's the difference between pessimism and optimism. For example >:( versus :biggrin:
-
I think that's more of a difference between communities. DTF tends to be a bit more positive about DT than anywhere else.
-
Misheard lyric time !!!!!
I heard a line at the end of The Bigger Picture that I thought was such a powerful beautiful statement, especially in the way it's sung and how it ends the song "I am hope", just to discover that it's "I am home" which is.. okay.
-
I thought it was funny that two different songs have what sounds like magnets in them :P
-
There's also a big rumour in France : DT and Roadrunner are about to upload an "HD version" of the album on the web... :justjen
Very weird.
Just can't imagine the reactions if the sound is better than the cd!! :loser:
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There's also a big rumour in France : DT and Roadrunner are about to upload an "HD version" of the album on the web... :justjen
Very weird.
Just can't imagine the reactions if the sound is better than the cd!! :loser:
It's called HDTracks and it's already available. Got it last night. Highly recommended.
-
So you confirm it sounds better than the original cd ?? :omg:
Any link pleeeeeeeaaaaaaaassssssssseeeeeeee ?? :biggrin:
-
Yeah, it sounds much better than the CD. I bought and downloaded it last night.
https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php (https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php)
More discussions about it here:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=39177.0 (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=39177.0)
-
Thanks a lot!!
So if I have already the cd, I have the obligation to pay again ?? Charming!! :censored
Thank you DT!! :tdwn
-
Thanks a lot!!
So if I have already the cd, I have the obligation to pay again ?? Charming!! :censored
Thank you DT!! :tdwn
Nobody is forcing you. The CD is perfectly acceptable for me. I'm not gonna dish out another £12 when I don't need to. If I get the HD download - it's just audio - you don't get anything to look at etc.
-
Thanks a lot!!
So if I have already the cd, I have the obligation to pay again ?? Charming!! :censored
Thank you DT!! :tdwn
Nobody is forcing you. The CD is perfectly acceptable for me. I'm not gonna dish out another £12 when I don't need to. If I get the HD download - it's just audio - you don't get anything to look at etc.
Not true. The HD tracks come with the full liner notes in PDF format.
-
Oh ok. Well. For people like me who are just fine with the CD version, i'll stick with that. :)
But now that I know that such things exist - I might wait for the HD version next time around.
-
Same for me... :facepalm:
-
Thanks a lot!!
So if I have already the cd, I have the obligation to pay again ?? Charming!! :censored
Thank you DT!! :tdwn
Nobody is forcing you. The CD is perfectly acceptable for me. I'm not gonna dish out another £12 when I don't need to. If I get the HD download - it's just audio - you don't get anything to look at etc.
Actually it comes with all artwork and lyrics, basically the entire booklet.
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Oh ok. Well. For people like me who are just fine with the CD version, i'll stick with that. :)
But now that I know that such things exist - I might wait for the HD version next time around.
JP confirmed that they will be doing this with all releases...for the audiophiles...very thoughtful of them. Also, the other Roadrunner albums will be released in HD by HDTracks as well. Thank you DT! Now we don't have to worry anymore.
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Oh ok. Well. For people like me who are just fine with the CD version, i'll stick with that. :)
But now that I know that such things exist - I might wait for the HD version next time around.
JP confirmed that they will be doing this with all releases...for the audiophiles...very thoughtful of them. Also, the other Roadrunner albums will be released in HD by HDTracks as well. Thank you DT! Now we don't have to worry anymore.
And so I will probably never buy a physical Dream Theater CD ever again. It's pretty messed up that they are doing this actually.
-
Do the HD tracks come on a CD that I can play in my car, or are they just computer files? Are they burnable? Do you need a special disc or player?
-
You can burn them to disc like any other album.
-
They come as different lossless file types (I chose FLAC) which you can burn onto a CD and play on any regular system.
-
OK thanks guys. How much more money will this cost?
-
OK thanks guys. How much more money will this cost?
18 dollars if you put in the septsale code.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_WWz2DSnT8
Does this sound familiar at all? ::)
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_WWz2DSnT8
Does this sound familiar at all? ::)
Welcome to last week.
-
Already been discussed at length :p :P
-
It's funny to compare people's reactions to this album in France and in the US.
In France (see and translate by yourself on the YourMajesty forum), the album is much, much less appreciated than in your country...and it's an euphemism. :omg:
You bet! I'm still a member on YM but completely stopped posting. It's DT bashfest there : what buggers me most is the people who had decided they wouldn't like the album even before it was released.
B.Lee
-
Anyone worried about getting the HDTracks version instead of the CD due to the booklet, don't worry, it comes with everything. Its not physical but no matter really. Physical cds are on their way out soon enough anyway, but that's just my take.
-
When bands stop putting out CDs - people listening to shitty mp3s will be the norm.
Which is ridiculous.
-
It's okay I suppose, but I'm not hearing chocolate cake.
-
Sorry Everyone but Surrender To Reason is my Breaking All Illusions of this album.
It's in the " it's not bad but it's my least favourite on the album and can't hear what everyone else hears in it. " camp.
:)
-
When bands stop putting out CDs - people listening to shitty mp3s will be the norm.
Which is ridiculous.
I totally agree, but that's where its already heading in this 256 kbps variable nitrate download world.
-
"what buggers me most is the people who had decided they wouldn't like the album even before it was released."
Yeah, I noticed that on a german forum, too. At some point they decided not to like DT anymore and there is nothing going to change that. Not even the best thing the band did in many years.
-
About 3 three listens into the album and I think its fantastic. SO much to listen to and I'm still consuming all of it, but right now I'd say my favorite songs are:
Illumination Theory: Simply astounding.
The Bigger Picture: The soaring melodies, just, wow.
The Looking Glass: Damn straight its got the Rush influence! and its great.
Surrender to Reason: Great tune, especially the JM breakdown.
Definitely better overall than ADTOI, which I loved and rank in my top 5 all time DT albums.
More thoughts to come... but right now I'll continue to enjoy one of the best full albums released in a while.
-
I can't get enough of JMX's lead bass parts.
-
"what buggers me most is the people who had decided they wouldn't like the album even before it was released."
Yeah, I noticed that on a german forum, too. At some point they decided not to like DT anymore and there is nothing going to change that. Not even the best thing the band did in many years.
Some people are so stubborn.
DT have a new album out and it's their best for about 15 years !
Meh - I stopped listening after Falling Into Infinity. :dunno:
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Serious question. Now that the album is out, is there any reason for this thread to remain open?
Yes. It is really the general discussion thread for the album. No need to lock it and have another one spring up in its place. However, no need to keep it stickied.
-
:tup
-
nevermind, didn't see there's already a thread devoted to this topic :facepalm:
-
Already been discussed at length :p :P
I know, I was there. That was meant for the "lolno"ers.
-
So far:
The Looking Glass
The Bigger Picture
Illumination Theory
Along for the Ride
Surrender to Reason
The Enemy Inside
False Awakening Suite
Behind the Veil
Enigma Machine
-
For me:
Illumination Theory
The Looking Glass
The Bigger Picture
False Awakening Suite
The Enemy Inside
Enigma Machine
Behind the Veil
Along for the Ride
Surrender to Reason
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Already been discussed at length :p :P
I know, I was there. That was meant for the "lolno"ers.
What lolnoers? Eren Basburg already told us that the Tchaikovsky was an inspiration for that section.
-
DT have a new album out and it's their best for about 15 years !
Is it 2020 already? ???
-
:huh:
-
DT have a new album out and it's their best for about 15 years !
Is it 2020 already? ???
:biggrin:
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If ADToE was the new Images & Words and DT12 is the new Awake...
Does that mean the next album will be he double album they always intended FII to be ? :P
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If ADToE was the new Images & Words and DT12 is the new Awake...
Does that mean the next album will be he double album they always intended FII to be ? :P
It will be the cut songs from FII rerecorded and rearranged with the current line-up. DT13: Rising from Nothing
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DT13 :
Myung Lightyear : To Infinity and Beyond.
-
DT13 :
Myung Lightyear : To Infinity and Beyond.
Someone with Photoshop skills please make a cover for this album :lol
-
Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog? I feel like their songwriting is getting worse... and it was so strong on ADToE... :-[
-
Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog? I feel like their songwriting is getting worse... and it was so strong on ADToE... :-[
No
-
Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog? I feel like their songwriting is getting worse... and it was so strong on ADToE... :-[
While you're of course entitled to your opinion, I find it a bit weird that you pull a trend from a grand total of one song (IT) - or do you think that the other songs on the S/T are weakly written as well?
-
DT13 :
Myung Lightyear : To Infinity and Beyond.
Someone with Photoshop skills please make a cover for this album :lol
-
Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog? I feel like their songwriting is getting worse... and it was so strong on ADToE... :-[
No
Nope. Structurally it's about the same as ACOS.
-
Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog? I feel like their songwriting is getting worse... and it was so strong on ADToE... :-[
Not me.
-
Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog? I feel like their songwriting is getting worse... and it was so strong on ADToE... :-[
Not me.
Not me either.
B.Lee
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Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog? I feel like their songwriting is getting worse... and it was so strong on ADToE... :-[
I wouldn't say only the last song.. but the whole album has a structural problem, song-writing problem and vocal melody problem. Doesn't sound like DT sometimes.
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Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog? I feel like their songwriting is getting worse... and it was so strong on ADToE... :-[
I wouldn't say only the last song.. but the whole album has a structural problem, song-writing problem and vocal melody problem. Doesn't sound like DT sometimes.
I don't not disagree with that statement.
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This entire album is growing on me. The problem with new albums and internet forums is the knee jerk reactions to albums.
People proclaim within a few listens its the best or worst of the bands career. I'm one of the oldest members of the board and I would say that the days before the internet were pure magic when it came to your favorite bands releasing new albums. Half the time you didn't even know one was coming out until days beforehand. Then when you did rush out to buy the record you listened to it with no preconceived notions. You didn't have the vast opinions of others floating in your head creating an almost subliminal bias to things you haven't even heard before.
I want to form my own unbiased opinion of every track but its hard to when you read the thoughts of so many and ponder why they feel as they do.
Now I'm sure not everyone is effected by this, but it does have an effect on me.
I am liking the album so far. Its a grower for me. My first listen didn't rock my world, but with every new listen different nuances are coming to the surface and the depth of the record is starting to penetrate.
So that's my thoughts at the moment.
p.s. Illumination Theory is amazing!
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The problem with new albums and internet forums is the knee jerk reactions to albums.
People proclaim within a few listens its the best or worst of the bands career. I'm one of the oldest members of the board and I would say that the days before the internet were pure magic when it came to your favorite bands releasing new albums. Half the time you didn't even know one was coming out until days beforehand. Then when you did rush out to buy the record you listened to it with no preconceived notions. You didn't have the vast opinions of others floating in your head creating an almost subliminal bias to things you haven't even heard before.
Agree 100%.
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The problem with new albums and internet forums is the knee jerk reactions to albums.
People proclaim within a few listens its the best or worst of the bands career. I'm one of the oldest members of the board and I would say that the days before the internet were pure magic when it came to your favorite bands releasing new albums. Half the time you didn't even know one was coming out until days beforehand. Then when you did rush out to buy the record you listened to it with no preconceived notions. You didn't have the vast opinions of others floating in your head creating an almost subliminal bias to things you haven't even heard before.
Agree 100%.
:tup
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The problem with new albums and internet forums is the knee jerk reactions to albums.
People proclaim within a few listens its the best or worst of the bands career. I'm one of the oldest members of the board and I would say that the days before the internet were pure magic when it came to your favorite bands releasing new albums. Half the time you didn't even know one was coming out until days beforehand. Then when you did rush out to buy the record you listened to it with no preconceived notions. You didn't have the vast opinions of others floating in your head creating an almost subliminal bias to things you haven't even heard before.
Agree 100%.
:tup
Those were the days. :tup
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Solution: Shut down the forum around release time or just don't read the threads.
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Solution: Shut down the forum around release time or just don't read the threads.
I would need to start a 12 step program for that to happen.
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Solution: Shut down the forum around release time or just don't read the threads.
The withdrawals would be too severe and I'd probably lose my job and end up in a mental hospital, uncovered by health insurance...would have to sell everything to pay the bills and would probably never be emotionally and mentally the same again. Or worse.
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Solution: Shut down the forum around release time or just don't read the threads.
It's been done.
Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog?
No.
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Friend who got me into Dream Theater finally gave the album a listen. Called it lifeless :sadpanda:
Welp, guess I'll continue to not talk about this album to anyone IRL.
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Dream Theater is Dream Theater. They don't try to reinvent the wheel. You get the same basic elements in every album.
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Am I the only one that has a hard on for Enigma Machine?
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Tick...don't let it get to you. I read the forums, but I can still form my own reaction to the albums.
And this album kicks ass
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Tick...don't let it get to you. I read the forums, but I can still form my own reaction to the albums.
And this album kicks ass
I hear you. It seems that some people are enamored with being controversial or trying to heat people up for the sake of doing so.
I understand that some folks really don't like the record, but others like to beat the dead horse by saying it in as many places as possible to make sure we are all aware of there displeasure.
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I agree with the above comment about things being SO different before the internet. Hell, half the time I never even knew
a band had a new album out. I would discover it while browsing the record shop. I don't want to be one of those
'get off my lawn' fellars but the whole experience was more enjoyable to me back then.
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Well I am loving the album.
My only complaint is that it seems to end so fast.
Lightyears better than "Events."
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This entire album is growing on me. The problem with new albums and internet forums is the knee jerk reactions to albums.
People proclaim within a few listens its the best or worst of the bands career. I'm one of the oldest members of the board and I would say that the days before the internet were pure magic when it came to your favorite bands releasing new albums. Half the time you didn't even know one was coming out until days beforehand. Then when you did rush out to buy the record you listened to it with no preconceived notions. You didn't have the vast opinions of others floating in your head creating an almost subliminal bias to things you haven't even heard before.
I want to form my own unbiased opinion of every track but its hard to when you read the thoughts of so many and ponder why they feel as they do.
Now I'm sure not everyone is effected by this, but it does have an effect on me.
I am liking the album so far. Its a grower for me. My first listen didn't rock my world, but with every new listen different nuances are coming to the surface and the depth of the record is starting to penetrate.
So that's my thoughts at the moment.
p.s. Illumination Theory is amazing!
i pretty much agree with that. The album hasn't really hit me but each time I listen to I like it better. Don't know how I will feel about it in a few months.
Funny thing is, I really cant say anything bad about the album. I love the lyrics, the sound quality, the riffs, the compositions, the musicianship but its just not hit me that much.
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Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog? I feel like their songwriting is getting worse... and it was so strong on ADToE... :-[
Personally I can't even listen to IT because of it's structure. I mean I think the song writing is weak too, but I have no idea what they were aiming for with this song.
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This entire album is growing on me. The problem with new albums and internet forums is the knee jerk reactions to albums.
People proclaim within a few listens its the best or worst of the bands career. I'm one of the oldest members of the board and I would say that the days before the internet were pure magic when it came to your favorite bands releasing new albums. Half the time you didn't even know one was coming out until days beforehand. Then when you did rush out to buy the record you listened to it with no preconceived notions. You didn't have the vast opinions of others floating in your head creating an almost subliminal bias to things you haven't even heard before.
I want to form my own unbiased opinion of every track but its hard to when you read the thoughts of so many and ponder why they feel as they do.
Now I'm sure not everyone is effected by this, but it does have an effect on me.
I am liking the album so far. Its a grower for me. My first listen didn't rock my world, but with every new listen different nuances are coming to the surface and the depth of the record is starting to penetrate.
So that's my thoughts at the moment.
p.s. Illumination Theory is amazing!
You make it sound like the Internet is brand new. There are likely forumers who are young enough to have never been alive without it existing.
What they need to do is cut out is this garbage pre release stuff. All I need to know is when it's being recorded and subsequently released. I get that it's part of marketing now but imo it completely ruins the experience.
For Iconoclast, SX gave like 2 updates lol.
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Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog? I feel like their songwriting is getting worse... and it was so strong on ADToE... :-[
Personally I can't even listen to IT because of it's structure. I mean I think the song writing is weak too, but I have no idea what they were aiming for with this song.
Why are there so many complaints about IT's structure? ACOS is just as weird from a structural standpoint, and that's pretty much universally adored on this forum.
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This entire album is growing on me. The problem with new albums and internet forums is the knee jerk reactions to albums.
People proclaim within a few listens its the best or worst of the bands career. I'm one of the oldest members of the board and I would say that the days before the internet were pure magic when it came to your favorite bands releasing new albums. Half the time you didn't even know one was coming out until days beforehand. Then when you did rush out to buy the record you listened to it with no preconceived notions. You didn't have the vast opinions of others floating in your head creating an almost subliminal bias to things you haven't even heard before.
I want to form my own unbiased opinion of every track but its hard to when you read the thoughts of so many and ponder why they feel as they do.
Now I'm sure not everyone is effected by this, but it does have an effect on me.
I am liking the album so far. Its a grower for me. My first listen didn't rock my world, but with every new listen different nuances are coming to the surface and the depth of the record is starting to penetrate.
So that's my thoughts at the moment.
p.s. Illumination Theory is amazing!
You make it sound like the Internet is brand new. There are likely forumers who are young enough to have never been alive without it existing.
I understand that, but if you are 20 to 25 you can't relate to what I am saying because you were too young. That's just the reality of it.
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Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog? I feel like their songwriting is getting worse... and it was so strong on ADToE... :-[
Personally I can't even listen to IT because of it's structure. I mean I think the song writing is weak too, but I have no idea what they were aiming for with this song.
Why are there so many complaints about IT's structure? ACOS is just as weird from a structural standpoint, and that's pretty much universally adored on this forum.
THIS
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Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog? I feel like their songwriting is getting worse... and it was so strong on ADToE... :-[
My thoughts exactly. Overall there isn't much substance to the album beneath the bombastic production!
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Tick...don't let it get to you. I read the forums, but I can still form my own reaction to the albums.
And this album kicks ass
I hear you. It seems that some people are enamored with being controversial or trying to heat people up for the sake of doing so.
I understand that some folks really don't like the record, but others like to beat the dead horse by saying it in as many places as possible to make sure we are all aware of there displeasure.
I would say the same about people responding to it. When someone says they just don't enjoy it, people have to come in and make excuses for them: "You just don't like DT anymore." "How can anyone say that?" "Some people just can't be positive about anything." Instead of accepting that people can have different thoughts about things.
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Does anyone else think that Illumination Theory is perhaps the structurally weakest song of DT's entire catalog? I feel like their songwriting is getting worse... and it was so strong on ADToE... :-[
Personally I can't even listen to IT because of it's structure. I mean I think the song writing is weak too, but I have no idea what they were aiming for with this song.
Why are there so many complaints about IT's structure? ACOS is just as weird from a structural standpoint, and that's pretty much universally adored on this forum.
THIS
ACoS has an overall cohesion. IT sounds like 8 different song ideas spliced together. I mean the transition from the orchestral section into that bass section is actually embarrassing imo.
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ACoS has an overall cohesion. IT sounds like 8 different song ideas spliced together. I mean the transition from the orchestral section into that bass section is actually embarrassing imo.
(https://25.media.tumblr.com/2da6451224d5e17a8cd51b72b6bdb3ab/tumblr_mgdu3kPmrY1qdj9xio4_250.gif)
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And the transition from the continuum solo and the acoustics in the beginning of Someone Like Him aren't even mentioned. Hmm..
IT has a few ideas that are fleshed out, with perhaps not-so-nice transitions. Octavarium's transitions are slightly better.
ACOS has about ten thousand ideas that don't really go anywhere, with better transitions.
When it comes to the epic songs, there really aren't that many that have "great" transitions.
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I've never even liked ACoS, but love every second of IT. Its not a structural issue rather an emotional connection issue...it seems to me.
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ACoS has an overall cohesion. IT sounds like 8 different song ideas spliced together. I mean the transition from the orchestral section into that bass section is actually embarrassing imo.
Go listen to ACOS again. There are some themes reprised here and there (just like IT) but on the whole, ACOS's hundreds of musical ideas are more-or-less unrelated. If you think it has an "overall cohesion", that's just because you've heard the song a hundred times.
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ACoS has an overall cohesion. IT sounds like 8 different song ideas spliced together. I mean the transition from the orchestral section into that bass section is actually embarrassing imo.
I think that's one of the most dramatic parts of the song.
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Had a few days to digest - I really like the album. DT albums always grow on me, so it will only get better. It's near the top for me, probably right in the second tier range along with ADTOE (behind Images and SFAM). As far as the songs go:
1) Behind the Veil
2) The Enemy Inside
3) Along for the Ride (maybe my favorite DT ballad ever)
4) The Looking Glass
5) Illumination Theory (I don't totally <get> this one yet, but it is growing on me, and it often takes a while to fully appreciate the epics. By the time I do, they usually jump to the top.
6) The Bigger Picture
7) False Awakening Suite
8) Enigma Machine
9) Surrender to Reason
It's definitely got fewer lows than most albums, although probably fewer highs as well. Very strong album.
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And the transition from the continuum solo and the acoustics in the beginning of Someone Like Him aren't even mentioned. Hmm..
IT has a few ideas that are fleshed out, with perhaps not-so-nice transitions. Octavarium's transitions are slightly better.
ACOS has about ten thousand ideas that don't really go anywhere, with better transitions.
When it comes to the epic songs, there really aren't that many that have "great" transitions.
I agree with this. Especially that 8VM's parts are so amazing that I don't really have a problem with the weird transitions in some parts. ACOS on the other hand goes nowhere, but has some neat transitions, but that can't save the song. I'm not saying that I don't like ACOS, in fact I really enjoy it, but transitions aren't everything.
And IT is finally starting to really grow on me :tup
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Tick...don't let it get to you. I read the forums, but I can still form my own reaction to the albums.
And this album kicks ass
I hear you. It seems that some people are enamored with being controversial or trying to heat people up for the sake of doing so.
I understand that some folks really don't like the record, but others like to beat the dead horse by saying it in as many places as possible to make sure we are all aware of there displeasure.
I would say the same about people responding to it. When someone says they just don't enjoy it, people have to come in and make excuses for them: "You just don't like DT anymore." "How can anyone say that?" "Some people just can't be positive about anything." Instead of accepting that people can have different thoughts about things.
That's fine if someone doesn't like the album. Certainly their prerogative not to. Its also their right to comment that they don't. What I have a problem with is the person who doesn't like the album who feels the need to go in to each individual thread for each song on the record and proceed to rip each song apart. Is their a need for that? You may think so, but I do not.
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I bought the album as aiff HD Tracks and wow! The album sounds phenomenal. In comparison to the single download off of itunes for TEI, the quality difference is substantial. I'm a happy customer :tup
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Mike Mangini Musical Quick Tip 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzmrjnODMsQ&feature=youtu.be
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ACoS has an overall cohesion. IT sounds like 8 different song ideas spliced together. I mean the transition from the orchestral section into that bass section is actually embarrassing imo.
I think that's one of the most dramatic parts of the song.
That transition works so well because of what came before it. I have never had a problem with how DT transition between sections, even going back to WDADU where they could be pretty jarring. It's just the next part of the song, it doesn't have to flow smoothly all the time.
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Music, like art, like movies like any media has multiple possibilities. Why does a song need to flow perfect all the time, Why does a song, need to be 20 minutes or 4 minutes? Why drop the guitar out of a section for a song? No answer is correct, it's art!
People have these preconceptions on how 'They" want the song and then push their agenda. DT made the song the way they wanted and when I'm not in the mood for that style, I'll put something else on. That's the beauty of diversity in music.
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Music, like art, like movies like any media has multiple possibilities. Why does a song need to flow perfect all the time, Why does a song, need to be 20 minutes or 4 minutes? Why drop the guitar out of a section for a song? No answer is correct, it's art!
People have these preconceptions on how 'They" want the song and then push their agenda. DT made the song the way they wanted and when I'm not in the mood for that style, I'll put something else on. That's the beauty of diversity in music.
Well said! :tup
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I'm gonna say it again: DT12 is not only my fav DT album, but one of the best rock albums I have ever heard. I haven't been this blown over by an entire album since the first Mutemath album, or when I discovered Muse thru Black Holes and Revelations. I haven't had this "instant classic" glow come over me with DT since SFAM, and I love it. This is the DT album I have been waiting for: all aspects I love and very very very few of the aspects I dislike.
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I've had some changes over the past week on what I think of the album. Really loving Myung's increased presence. The rhythm section between him and Mangini is fantastic. And the HD tracks version allows people to hear Mangini unleashed. So much shit is buried on the CD.
Surrender To Reason
Behind The Veil
Illumination Theory
The Bigger Picture
The Looking Glass
Along For The Ride
False Awakening Suite
The Enemy Inside
Enigma Machine
And obligatory album rank:
SDOIT
SFAM
DT12
I&W
Awake
8VM
ADTOE
FII
TOT
SC
BC&SL
WDADU
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I've been trying not to discuss the new album for at least a week now, for two reasons. The first one is that I wasn't really impressed with it initially. The second one goes along with the first one, and that is that it usually takes me some time to digest music, especially when it comes to progressive rock. So I knew there was a chance that the album will grow on me, or at least some of it, so I decided to take some time and try to give it a few more fair listens.
The biggest issue I had with the album was that it wasn't A Dramatic turn of events. That album, in my opinion, was absolutely brilliant and I already think of it as a classic. So, of course, it would be extremely hard for a band to impress me like that once again in their 28th year. Truth be told, this album is very different. It's heavier, darker and much more modern sounding. Also, its strong focus seem to be the choruses and melodies, which is logical when you consider the length of most of the songs. For me, they absolutely nailed it in some of the songs, but some other ones didn't work for me as much.
False awakening suite – Not a great song on its own, but it really sets the mood for the rest of the album nicely. There are some really cool ideas all around, and it does sound to me like Rudess and Petrucci had a great time putting this intro together. I think it will work amazing as a concert intro as well.
The Enemy inside – At first I thought the chord progressions and vocal melodies on here were predictable and a bit too simple. I expected I would get tired of the song quickly, but that didn’t happen. I still find this song insanely catchy, with the chorus sticking with me in particular. One of my favorites on the album.
The Looking glass – Within the first five seconds, it becomes obvious that the band was heavily inspired by Rush while writing this one. I think it’s amazing to hear such a Rush influenced song on a Dream Theater album for the first time in maybe 20 years. It’s a really solid song all around that might grow one me even more with time.
Enigma Machine – Now this just does it for me. It’s another one of their over the top instrumentals. The riffs and solos are killer throughout, but the melodic moments give it a nice balance. I can totally hear the spy movie vibe that they were going for and it certainly is one of the more cinematic souding songs on the album. It’s a lot of fun.
The Bigger picture – This one seems to already be a fan favorite and the band expressed their satisfaction with it, but I’m still not sure about it. The chorus doesn’t really move me, and the expansive verses in the second half don’t strike me with any particular melody. I do like LaBrie’s performance as well as some simple piano chords Jordan plays in the middle.
Behind the veil – The intro for this song is beautiful, followed by some murderously awesome riffs. The rest of the song kinda follows an ordinary pattern, which probably wouldn’t be an issue if I weren’t so underwhelmed by the chorus. I didn’t really dig the Megadeth verse neither. It’s probably my least favorite song on the album.
Surrender to reason – More Rush influences can be heard here, but the song goes its own places as a whole. The guitar solo is insane, even more so because of what Myung and Mangini play in the background. The ‘’Restless angels’’ section is truly gorgeous. It’s one of the more fascinating songs on the album and another possible grower. It also has my favorite lyrics on the album.
Along for the ride – This is another song where I’m still on the fence with the chorus, because it might be a bit too happy sounding for my taste. What saves it is the verse that preceedes the keyboard solo, as well as some neat background vocals by James in the last chorus that give it a nice touch.
Illumination theory – As expected, Dream Theater strikes a chord with me pretty much whenever they tackle the task of creating an epic. This song is filled with the goods in every way. The flow is incredible, the orchestral bits quite moving, and James impresses me here the most, utilising so many aspects of his voice throughout. Also worth mentioning is the easter egg that comes at the end – a wonderful piece that contains only piano and guitar.
Overall, I’m glad I didn’t give up on the album too early, because I would miss out on some good music. The self titled record certainly wouldn’t be one of my favorite Dream Theater albums, but I am still satisfied with it and will definitely be returning to it. It will also be great to hear the stuff live next year, and I’m pretty sure the band will use the ‘’an evening with’’ show format to play all of it, being that they really seem to be proud of it and the fan response in general has been amazing so far.
Grade: 8/10
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ACoS has an overall cohesion. IT sounds like 8 different song ideas spliced together. I mean the transition from the orchestral section into that bass section is actually embarrassing imo.
(https://25.media.tumblr.com/2da6451224d5e17a8cd51b72b6bdb3ab/tumblr_mgdu3kPmrY1qdj9xio4_250.gif)
I agree so hard with this.
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Now that I know the album a little better, here's a track-by-track.
False Awakening Suite - Serves quite well as an intro, I suppose, but nothing remarkable on its own. It does set the mood nicely, but not really a lot more.
The Enemy Inside - Now this is more like it! I wasn't expecting to like it this much, but this song is just so insanely catchy and powerful that I can't help but enjoy it. The instrumental section is amazing and I don't think that I've played this song once without singing along to the chorus at the top of my voice.
The Looking Glass - It's okay, but it's no secret that I'm no fan of Rush and that's my I'd consider this to be one of the weaker songs here. Still a good listen, though, love the guitar solo.
Enigma Machine - Interesting beginning and I like that callback to The Count of Tuscany, but overall this isn't really anything great. Might need more listens, but right now, nothing has really stuck.
The Bigger Picture - AMAZING. Took a few listens, but I love love love it now. The chorus is great, the guitar solo is a thing of beauty and the outro is amazing. Love the unconventional structure of this one as well.
Behind the Veil - Great intro and powerful riffing. Not quite sold on the chorus, especially that last chorus sounds really weird, but the rest is amazing. The guitar solo might be one of JP's best ever, great melodies and some amazing shredding that fits perfectly as well.
Surrender to Reason - Now this is a great track as well. Some amazing melodies, the guitar solos are very different but both amazing, and I love the "Restless angels..." section, so powerful! Definitely one of my favourites here as well.
Along for the Ride - Digging this one as well, but still one of the weaker tracks on the album. Not quite sure what it is, maybe the chorus? Still, Petrucci's little solo is great and Rudess' one is probably one of my favourite key solos on the album.
Illumination Theory - Yes, this is disjointed, but I don't care, I love it anyway. The final section is especially great, a far better climax than Octavarium. Love the Easter Egg as well, though I'd love to have it as a seperate track.
Overall, a very solid album, just beneath my holy trinity of SDOIT/Awake/FII for me, about on par with I&W. 9/10.
Ranking:
The Bigger Picture
Surrender to Reason
Illumination Theory
The Enemy Inside
Behind the Veil
The Looking Glass
Along for the Ride
Enigma Machine
False Awakening Suite
Albums:
1. Six Degrees
2. Awake
3. Falling into Infinity
4. Images and Words
5. Dream Theater
6. A Dramatic Turn of Events
7. Scenes from a Memory
8. Train of Thought
9. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
10. When Dream and Day Unite
11. Systematic Chaos
12. Octavarium
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my biggest criticism of the album is that they don't repeat 1:02- 1:08 in False Awakening Suite just one more time
obligatory song ranking (the top 4 move around):
TLG
TBP
IT
BTV
STR
FAS
EM
TEI
AFTR
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Behind The Veil
The Bigger Picture
Enigma Machine
Illumination Theory
Along For The Ride
Surrendee to Reason
The Looking Glass
False Awakening Suite
The Enemy Inside
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Surrender to Reason
Behind the Veil
The Bigger Picture
Illumination Theory
The Looking Glass
Along for the Ride
The Enemy Inside
Enigma Machine
False Awakening Suite
-J
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Based on enjoyment:
1 - The Looking Glass
2 - Surrender To Reason
3 - Illumination Theory
4 - The Bigger Picture
5 - The Enemy Inside
6 - Along For The Ride
7 - Enigma Machine
8 - Behind The Veil
9 - False Awakening Suite
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Behind the Veil
Illumination Theory
The Looking Glass
The Enemy Inside
The Bigger Picture
Surrender to Reason
Enigma Machine
False Awakening Suite
Along for the Ride
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Illumination theory
The Enemy inside
Enigma machine
Surrender to reason
The Looking glass
False awakening suite
Along for the ride
The Bigger picture
Behind the veil
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THE BEAUTY WE WISH TO BEHOLD IS NEVER TOO FAAAAAAAAAARR AWWAAAAAYYYYY
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Top 8 - too close to rank.
9 : Surrender To Reason.
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Illumination Theory
Surrender to Reason
Enigma Machine
The Enemy Inside
Along for the Ride
The Bigger Picture
False Awakening Suite
Behind the Veil
The Looking Glass
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This is the Dream Theater I fell in love with back with Images And Words, Awake etc, this record has far exceeded expectation! Nothing here sounds forced nor out of place, this album flows beautifully and is easily up to par with their best work, near perfect Dream Theater fer these ears, super impressed! :metal
The Bigger Picture
Behind The Veil
The Looking Glass
Along For The Ride
The Enemy Inside
Surrender To Reason
Can't compare an epic like Illumination Theory to the rest, it just stands alone, as do the instrumentals False Awakening Suite and Enigma Machine!
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I can't believe the "DT12" stuck, the dumbest fuckin option we could have went with.
It's the most logical. DTDT was the stupidest option.
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Here is the correct order you should like the songs…
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender To Reason
3. The Bigger Picture
4. The Enemy Inside
5. The Looking Glass
6. Behind The Veil
7. Enigma Machine
8. False Awakening Suite
9. Along For The Ride
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Nice. Liking it a lot at the mo. As good as if not slightly better than ADTOE, imo.
Since MP's departure, they've fixed a couple of things that were really bothering me since 6DOIT (crass attempts at angsty metalness, awful lyrics, too frequent lack of taste) and created one (dull-sounding drums).
I'm pleasantly pleased! :)
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Here is the correct order you should like the songs…
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender To Reason
3. The Bigger Picture
4. The Enemy Inside
5. The Looking Glass
6. Behind The Veil
7. Enigma Machine
8. False Awakening Suite
9. Along For The Ride
Behind The Veil is way to good for 6th.
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Here is the correct order you should like the songs…
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender To Reason
3. The Bigger Picture
4. The Enemy Inside
5. The Looking Glass
6. Behind The Veil
7. Enigma Machine
8. False Awakening Suite
9. Along For The Ride
Behind The Veil is way to good for 6th.
Its hard when you like the songs pretty much equally. but if you have to put them in order something must be 6th.
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Here is the correct order you should like the songs…
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender To Reason
3. The Bigger Picture
4. The Enemy Inside
5. The Looking Glass
6. Behind The Veil
7. Enigma Machine
8. False Awakening Suite
9. Along For The Ride
Behind The Veil is way to good for 6th.
Its hard when you like the songs pretty much equally. but if you have to put them in order something must be 6th.
Just not Behind The Veil :P
I don't even know if I could rank the songs, aside from IT being an obvious no.1, everything is just so damned good on this album.
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It was REALLY hard to rank the songs. I haven't really listened to it as much as some here, but when I do I enjoy it all. Its a consistent album and I find it hard not to listen to it in its entirety.
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Yeah, I don't think I can rank the songs just yet. I don't think I can place the album in the catalog yet either, although I do think it will end up being in the top 5 for sure, maybe higher.
This is the first Dream Theater album in a LONG time that I can't stop listening to.
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Exactly the reason i'm trying not to listen to it everyday.
Which is what i'm doing more and more with new albums.
i'll listen for a couple of weeks then put it on the shelf for ages.
Then when I feel like listening again - it still feels fresh .
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Here is the correct order you should like the songs…
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender To Reason
3. The Bigger Picture
4. The Enemy Inside
5. The Looking Glass
6. Behind The Veil
7. Enigma Machine
8. False Awakening Suite
9. Along For The Ride
Behind The Veil is way to good for 6th.
Its hard when you like the songs pretty much equally. but if you have to put them in order something must be 6th.
Just not Behind The Veil :P
I don't even know if I could rank the songs, aside from IT being an obvious no.1, everything is just so damned good on this album.
Well, I was just trying to play along. :-\
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Here is the correct order you should like the songs…
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender To Reason
3. The Bigger Picture
4. The Enemy Inside
5. The Looking Glass
6. Behind The Veil
7. Enigma Machine
8. False Awakening Suite
9. Along For The Ride
Well I like Surrender To Reason the least. :dunno: It's my Breaking All Illusions of this album.
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Here is the correct order you should like the songs…
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender To Reason
3. The Bigger Picture
4. The Enemy Inside
5. The Looking Glass
6. Behind The Veil
7. Enigma Machine
8. False Awakening Suite
9. Along For The Ride
Well I like Surrender To Reason the least. :dunno: It's my Breaking All Illusions of this album.
:|
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Serious. Everyone bums Breaking All Illusions and I just don't get it.
I prefer This Is The Life any day.
Same for Surrender To Reason. It's just bleh to me. James delivery of " Restless Angels - help me find my way " is the blandest thing on the album.
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To each his or her own But I love STR and BAI myself.
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I just think that this would have been the perfect album to follow up I&W before Awake that never existed. Discuss?
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I just think that this would have been the perfect album to follow up I&W before Awake that never existed. Discuss?
I actually think that DT12 is the album the band (JP, JL, JM, but mostly JP) wanted FII to be.
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I just think that this would have been the perfect album to follow up I&W before Awake that never existed. Discuss?
I actually think that DT12 is the album the band (JP, JL, JM, but mostly JP) wanted FII to be.
Aside from DT12 including "shorter" songs, I don't really see much of a comparison.
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Yeah, I don't think I can rank the songs just yet. I don't think I can place the album in the catalog yet either,
That's funny. Me too. I don't know WTF to do with it! :lol
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It's definitely in my top 5. And that's not being generous.
It needs time to fully sink in and become more familiar .
But at the moment ( HD Tracks especially ) - it's definitely my favourite of the RoadRunner albums.
If you put a gun to my head and told me to rank it i'd say Octavarium, Scenes, Six Degrees, DT12...
And I definitely can't rank the songs - they're all so good and consistent that I can't choose between them but...
Surrender To Reason is last place just by dint of being my least favourite.
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I just think that this would have been the perfect album to follow up I&W before Awake that never existed. Discuss?
I actually think that DT12 is the album the band (JP, JL, JM, but mostly JP) wanted FII to be.
Aside from DT12 including "shorter" songs, I don't really see much of a comparison.
The accessibility.
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Wasn't that forced on them by the label ?
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I just think that this would have been the perfect album to follow up I&W before Awake that never existed. Discuss?
I actually think that DT12 is the album the band (JP, JL, JM, but mostly JP) wanted FII to be.
Aside from DT12 including "shorter" songs, I don't really see much of a comparison.
The accessibility.
I don't see DT12 being all that accessible. Shorter songs do not mean it's necessarily accessible. FII had much more mainstream potential in that regard.
I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing either way, but I just don't see the comparison. DT12 has more in common with Octavarium than FII imo.
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Yeah ,it's like Octavarium on steroids.
I always picture the JP's face in the Score documentary when talking about 8V and look how much his face lights up.
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:metal Octavarium.
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:metal Octavarium.
It's a nice album, but on the whole, to me, it's one of their weaker ones. That said, the title track is my second favorite DT song.
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That's it, I'm calling DT12 "Dodecavarium" from now on, or 12V for short. :neverusethis:
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That's it, I'm calling DT12 "Dodecavarium" from now on, or 12V for short. :neverusethis:
:lol
12V it is!! :lol
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Shorter songs do not mean it's necessarily accessible.
Yeah, but they are in DT12... Talking about songs like TEI, Looking Glass or The Bigger Picture, there is no shaman intro, there is no instrumental breakdown in the middle of song that last 3-5 minutes, etc...
The structure of the songs follows pretty close the "Intro till Outro"... Of course, you can say the playing is much more complex than mainstream metal music and that making it less accessible.
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Ah, it all goes to space if you mean "general mainstream music" :rollin
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Shorter songs do not mean it's necessarily accessible.
Yeah, but they are in DT12... Talking about songs like TEI, Looking Glass or The Bigger Picture, there is no shaman intro, there is no instrumental breakdown in the middle of song that last 3-5 minutes, etc...
The structure of the songs follows pretty close the "Intro till Outro".
They're accessible for prog, but honestly they're still not really mainstream accessible, or something you could hear on the radio, especially once you factor in the style.
I'd say about half of FII was quite radio friendly, as that's what the record label demanded, but DT12 still sounds like a prog band just writing shorter songs. Even though The Looking Glass may be a relatively simpler song, the style is very old school (and apparently classic Rush, but I wouldn't know), not an attempt at modern or mainstream at all.
TEI is something that could fit in as a modern mainstream metal, but they've always included the "singles" like that.
Ah, it all goes to space if you mean "general mainstream music" :rollin
Yeah, I kinda do, but I'm not talking all out pop. :lol
I do agree with you that it's more accessible than ADTOE, but we're still talking an album with a 20 minute epic, an instrumental into, plus another instrumental. Put that in context. :P
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but we're still talking an album with a 20 minute epic, an instrumental into, plus another instrumental. Put that in context. :P
but they not gonna play the entire album in radio, silly Blob :lol
So, i picked TEI, Looking Glass and Bigger Picture as "the singles" :rollin
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But they not gonna play the entire album in radio, silly Blob :lol
So, i picked TEI, Looking Glass and Bigger Picture as the "singles" :rollin
Gah, we're talking a prog band here. I think any attempts at discussing mainstream or radio or singles is silly! :lol
Just so you know for context, DT is the only prog band I listen to, and the stuff I typically listen to is much more mainstream, so I'm calibrated to still put DT pretty far apart from that, probably much moreso than most DTFers who have very different musical tastes to me.
It doesn't really matter either way to me, as DT are capable of writing excellent songs at both extremes of the spectrum. :tup
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And they're not gonna like do a album without "the heavyness :metal or the proggy elements" now, so, maybe it is the maximum that they can get close to FII without making something they will not like entirely.
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But they not gonna play the entire album in radio, silly Blob :lol
So, i picked TEI, Looking Glass and Bigger Picture as the "singles" :rollin
Gah, we're talking a prog band here. I think any attempts at discussing mainstream or radio or singles is silly! :lol
What to do, the band actually releases singles :P
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And they're not gonna like do a album without "the heavyness :metal" now, so, maybe it is the maximum that they can get close to FII without making something they will not like entirely.
For an album overall, you're probably right. They're still able to write individual songs without any heaviness though, and it's more the prog part that skews them away from mainstream rather than the metal part though. Just look at JLB's solo album. It's heavy throughout, but also very poppy throughout.
I'm not saying DT should be doing that of course, just saying it's possible!
But they not gonna play the entire album in radio, silly Blob :lol
So, i picked TEI, Looking Glass and Bigger Picture as the "singles" :rollin
Gah, we're talking a prog band here. I think any attempts at discussing mainstream or radio or singles is silly! :lol
What to do, the band actually releases singles :P
Ok, scratch the singles bit, I was associating that more with the traditional radio single, and no radio station here would play DT, unfortunately.
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That's it, I'm calling DT12 "Dodecavarium" from now on, or 12V for short. :neverusethis:
12V :metal SO ENERGY POWAH
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DT, Dream Titled :o
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12V - Shoulda covered Battery by Metallica.
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Illumination Battery medley then.
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Here is the correct order you should like the songs…
1. Illumination Theory
2. Surrender To Reason
3. The Bigger Picture
4. The Enemy Inside
5. The Looking Glass
6. Behind The Veil
7. Enigma Machine
8. False Awakening Suite
9. Along For The Ride
Well I like Surrender To Reason the least. :dunno: It's my Breaking All Illusions of this album.
You are no longer welcome to like the album. Your new Pit bull album will arrive in the mail in 3 to 5 business days. That is a true marvel as the Lifting Shadows book will never get there. :tick2:
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You are no longer welcome to like the album.
::)
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You are no longer welcome to like the album.
::)
No eye rolls I am kidding with you.
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It's like Octavarium in the sense it has some great songs and some songs that I'd like to forget exist. This one has more of the latter though.
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Hey guys, haven't been tracking this thread lately, but has there been any discussion yet of the HDtracks version of DT12 vs. the standard CD? I ended up never preordering the album, because I couldn't make up my mind about which edition I wanted, and now that there is an HDtracks version already, I'm even more perplexed. If the audio does sound significantly better, I may go that route for the first time ever. Any advice/comments/input is appreciated :)
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Hey guys, haven't been tracking this thread lately, but has there been any discussion yet of the HDtracks version of DT12 vs. the standard CD? I ended up never preordering the album, because I couldn't make up my mind about which edition I wanted, and now that there is an HDtracks version already, I'm even more perplexed. If the audio does sound significantly better, I may go that route for the first time ever. Any advice/comments/input is appreciated :)
Check out the entire thread on it: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=39177.0
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Hey guys, haven't been tracking this thread lately, but has there been any discussion yet of the HDtracks version of DT12 vs. the standard CD? I ended up never preordering the album, because I couldn't make up my mind about which edition I wanted, and now that there is an HDtracks version already, I'm even more perplexed. If the audio does sound significantly better, I may go that route for the first time ever. Any advice/comments/input is appreciated :)
Check out the entire thread on it: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=39177.0
TL;DR - yes it's awesome.
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I'm sure the question on everyone's lips is this:
Where can we buy DT-brand pigeon seed? :biggrin: