Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]

[kirksnosehair]

Yeah, I don't think I can rank the songs just yet.  I don't think I can place the album in the catalog yet either, although I do think it will end up being in the top 5 for sure, maybe higher.


This is the first Dream Theater album in a LONG time that I can't stop listening to.

[Kotowboy]

Exactly the reason i'm trying not to listen to it everyday.

Which is what i'm doing more and more with new albums.

i'll listen for a couple of weeks then put it on the shelf for ages.

Then when I feel like listening again - it still feels fresh .

[Tick]

Here is the correct order you should like the songs...

1.   Illumination Theory
2.   Surrender To Reason
3.   The Bigger Picture
4.   The Enemy Inside
5.   The Looking Glass
6.   Behind The Veil
7.   Enigma Machine
8.   False Awakening Suite
9.   Along For The Ride

Behind The Veil is way to good for 6th.

Its hard when you like the songs pretty much equally. but if you have to put them in order something must be 6th.

Just not Behind The Veil

I don't even know if I could rank the songs, aside from IT being an obvious no.1, everything is just so damned good on this album.

Well, I was just trying to play along.

[Kotowboy]

Here is the correct order you should like the songs...

1.   Illumination Theory
2.   Surrender To Reason
3.   The Bigger Picture
4.   The Enemy Inside
5.   The Looking Glass
6.   Behind The Veil
7.   Enigma Machine
8.   False Awakening Suite
9.   Along For The Ride

Well I like Surrender To Reason the least. It's my Breaking All Illusions of this album.

[Nearmyth]

Here is the correct order you should like the songs...

1.   Illumination Theory
2.   Surrender To Reason
3.   The Bigger Picture
4.   The Enemy Inside
5.   The Looking Glass
6.   Behind The Veil
7.   Enigma Machine
8.   False Awakening Suite
9.   Along For The Ride

Well I like Surrender To Reason the least. It's my Breaking All Illusions of this album.

[Kotowboy]

Serious. Everyone bums Breaking All Illusions and I just don't get it.

I prefer This Is The Life any day.

Same for Surrender To Reason. It's just bleh to me. James delivery of " Restless Angels - help me find my way " is the blandest thing on the album.

[King Postwhore]

To each his or her own But I love STR and BAI myself.

[mabowe]

I just think that this would have been the perfect album to follow up I&W before Awake that never existed. Discuss?

[philippaopao]

I just think that this would have been the perfect album to follow up I&W before Awake that never existed. Discuss?

I actually think that DT12 is the album the band (JP, JL, JM, but mostly JP) wanted FII to be.

[BlobVanDam]

I just think that this would have been the perfect album to follow up I&W before Awake that never existed. Discuss?

I actually think that DT12 is the album the band (JP, JL, JM, but mostly JP) wanted FII to be.

Aside from DT12 including "shorter" songs, I don't really see much of a comparison.

[TAC]

Yeah, I don't think I can rank the songs just yet.  I don't think I can place the album in the catalog yet either,

That's funny. Me too. I don't know WTF to do with it!

[Kotowboy]

It's definitely in my top 5. And that's not being generous.

It needs time to fully sink in and become more familiar .

But at the moment ( HD Tracks especially ) - it's definitely my favourite of the RoadRunner albums.

If you put a gun to my head and told me to rank it i'd say Octavarium, Scenes, Six Degrees, DT12...


And I definitely can't rank the songs - they're all so good and consistent that I can't choose between them but...

Surrender To Reason is last place just by dint of being my least favourite.

[Outcrier]

I just think that this would have been the perfect album to follow up I&W before Awake that never existed. Discuss?

I actually think that DT12 is the album the band (JP, JL, JM, but mostly JP) wanted FII to be.

Aside from DT12 including "shorter" songs, I don't really see much of a comparison.

The accessibility.

[Kotowboy]

Wasn't that forced on them by the label ?

[BlobVanDam]

I just think that this would have been the perfect album to follow up I&W before Awake that never existed. Discuss?

I actually think that DT12 is the album the band (JP, JL, JM, but mostly JP) wanted FII to be.

Aside from DT12 including "shorter" songs, I don't really see much of a comparison.

The accessibility.

I don't see DT12 being all that accessible. Shorter songs do not mean it's necessarily accessible. FII had much more mainstream potential in that regard.

I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing either way, but I just don't see the comparison. DT12 has more in common with Octavarium than FII imo.

[TAC]

Yeah ,it's like Octavarium on steroids.

I always picture the JP's face in the Score documentary when talking about 8V and look how much his face lights up.

[Kotowboy]

  Octavarium.

[TAC]

Octavarium.

It's a nice album, but on the whole, to me, it's one of their weaker ones. That said, the title track is my second favorite DT song.

[BlobVanDam]

That's it, I'm calling DT12 "Dodecavarium" from now on, or 12V for short.

[TAC]

That's it, I'm calling DT12 "Dodecavarium" from now on, or 12V for short.

12V it is!!

[Outcrier]

Shorter songs do not mean it's necessarily accessible.

Yeah, but they are in DT12... Talking about songs like TEI, Looking Glass or The Bigger Picture, there is no shaman intro, there is no instrumental breakdown in the middle of song that last 3-5 minutes, etc...
The structure of the songs follows pretty close the "Intro till Outro"... Of course, you can say the playing is much more complex than mainstream metal music and that making it less accessible.

[Outcrier]

Ah, it all goes to space if you mean "general mainstream music" 

[BlobVanDam]

Shorter songs do not mean it's necessarily accessible.

Yeah, but they are in DT12... Talking about songs like TEI, Looking Glass or The Bigger Picture, there is no shaman intro, there is no instrumental breakdown in the middle of song that last 3-5 minutes, etc...
The structure of the songs follows pretty close the "Intro till Outro".

They're accessible for prog, but honestly they're still not really mainstream accessible, or something you could hear on the radio, especially once you factor in the style.
I'd say about half of FII was quite radio friendly, as that's what the record label demanded, but DT12 still sounds like a prog band just writing shorter songs. Even though The Looking Glass may be a relatively simpler song, the style is very old school (and apparently classic Rush, but I wouldn't know), not an attempt at modern or mainstream at all.
TEI is something that could fit in as a modern mainstream metal, but they've always included the "singles" like that.

Ah, it all goes to space if you mean "general mainstream music" 

Yeah, I kinda do, but I'm not talking all out pop.
I do agree with you that it's more accessible than ADTOE, but we're still talking an album with a 20 minute epic, an instrumental into, plus another instrumental. Put that in context.

[Outcrier]

but we're still talking an album with a 20 minute epic, an instrumental into, plus another instrumental. Put that in context.

but they not gonna play the entire album in radio, silly Blob 
So, i picked TEI, Looking Glass and Bigger Picture as "the singles" 

[BlobVanDam]

But they not gonna play the entire album in radio, silly Blob 
So, i picked TEI, Looking Glass and Bigger Picture as the "singles" 

Gah, we're talking a prog band here. I think any attempts at discussing mainstream or radio or singles is silly!

Just so you know for context, DT is the only prog band I listen to, and the stuff I typically listen to is much more mainstream, so I'm calibrated to still put DT pretty far apart from that, probably much moreso than most DTFers who have very different musical tastes to me.

It doesn't really matter either way to me, as DT are capable of writing excellent songs at both extremes of the spectrum.

[Outcrier]

And they're not gonna like do a album without "the heavyness  or the proggy elements" now, so, maybe it is the maximum that they can get close to FII without making something they will not like entirely.

[Outcrier]

But they not gonna play the entire album in radio, silly Blob 
So, i picked TEI, Looking Glass and Bigger Picture as the "singles" 

Gah, we're talking a prog band here. I think any attempts at discussing mainstream or radio or singles is silly!

What to do, the band actually releases singles 

[BlobVanDam]

And they're not gonna like do a album without "the heavyness  " now, so, maybe it is the maximum that they can get close to FII without making something they will not like entirely.

For an album overall, you're probably right. They're still able to write individual songs without any heaviness though, and it's more the prog part that skews them away from mainstream rather than the metal part though. Just look at JLB's solo album. It's heavy throughout, but also very poppy throughout.
I'm not saying DT should be doing that of course, just saying it's possible!

But they not gonna play the entire album in radio, silly Blob 
So, i picked TEI, Looking Glass and Bigger Picture as the "singles" 

Gah, we're talking a prog band here. I think any attempts at discussing mainstream or radio or singles is silly!

What to do, the band actually releases singles 

Ok, scratch the singles bit, I was associating that more with the traditional radio single, and no radio station here would play DT, unfortunately.

[Kotowboy]

That's it, I'm calling DT12 "Dodecavarium" from now on, or 12V for short.

12V  SO ENERGY POWAH

[Outcrier]

DT, Dream Titled 

[Kotowboy]

12V - Shoulda covered Battery by Metallica.

[Outcrier]

Illumination Battery medley then.

[Tick]

Here is the correct order you should like the songs...

1.   Illumination Theory
2.   Surrender To Reason
3.   The Bigger Picture
4.   The Enemy Inside
5.   The Looking Glass
6.   Behind The Veil
7.   Enigma Machine
8.   False Awakening Suite
9.   Along For The Ride

Well I like Surrender To Reason the least. It's my Breaking All Illusions of this album.

You are no longer welcome to like the album. Your new Pit bull album will arrive in the mail in 3 to 5 business days. That is a true marvel as the Lifting Shadows book will never get there.

[Kotowboy]

You are no longer welcome to like the album.

[Tick]

You are no longer welcome to like the album.

No eye rolls I am kidding with you.