Would you like to see Portnoy back in Dream theater?

[Kotowboy]

FOR THE LAST TIME.

JOHN PETRUCCI DID *NOT* WRITE THE DRUMS ON A DRAMATIC TURN OF EVENTS. HE WROTE THE MOST BASIC BASS AND SNARE ACCENTS PRIMARILY FOR THE BAND TO PLAY ALONG TO. MANGINI DID HIS OWN THING.

MANGINI WROTE AND PLAYED THE DRUMS ON A DRAMATIC TURN OF EVENTS.

Mangini didn't really give us anything, because the drum patterns were written by Petrucci.

[aurorablind]

FOR THE LAST TIME.

JOHN PETRUCCI DID *NOT* WRITE THE DRUMS ON A DRAMATIC TURN OF EVENTS. HE WROTE THE MOST BASIC BASS AND SNARE ACCENTS PRIMARILY FOR THE BAND TO PLAY ALONG TO. MANGINI DID HIS OWN THING.

MANGINI WROTE AND PLAYED THE DRUMS ON A DRAMATIC TURN OF EVENTS.

Mangini didn't really give us anything, because the drum patterns were written by Petrucci.

Well.. I think it has been well documented that JP more or less "wrote" the drum parts for ADTOE.
Mangini have said in interviews that probably 70% of the original grooves, hits and feels from JPs programmed drums were kept for the final recordings.
That doesent mean that Mike didnt add his personality to the previous record (30% is still a pretty large amount of input), but he defenitely didnt have nearly as much input when it comes to creating and arranging the drum parts as we will hear on DT12.

[TL]

FOR THE LAST TIME.

JOHN PETRUCCI DID *NOT* WRITE THE DRUMS ON A DRAMATIC TURN OF EVENTS. HE WROTE THE MOST BASIC BASS AND SNARE ACCENTS PRIMARILY FOR THE BAND TO PLAY ALONG TO. MANGINI DID HIS OWN THING.

MANGINI WROTE AND PLAYED THE DRUMS ON A DRAMATIC TURN OF EVENTS.

Mangini didn't really give us anything, because the drum patterns were written by Petrucci.

Well.. I think it has been well documented that JP more or less "wrote" the drum parts for ADTOE.
Mangini have said in interviews that probably 70% of the original grooves, hits and feels from JPs programmed drums were kept for the final recordings.
That doesent mean that Mike didnt add his personality to the previous record (30% is still a pretty large amount of input), but he defenitely didnt have nearly as much input when it comes to creating and arranging the drum parts as we will hear on DT12.

Mike Mangini contributed a heck of a lot more than 30% of the drum parts on ADToE. JP programmed some basic ideas, but Mangini contributed most of the actual grooves and fills. Suggesting that he had such a minimal role on ADToE is just silly.

The difference on the new album is that he was there for and actively contributed to the writing process of the actual songs themselves.

[Ħ]

The main point is that Mangini didn't have any input in terms of song structure or direction.

[jonnybaxy]

I'm guessing JP just added very basic drum patterns to keep the time sigs for the rest of them then mangini did the rest

[jammindude]

Based on the interviews I have seen (with both JP AND MM)...I was inclined to agree that *most* of the drum parts were written by JP, and MM "added his personality" to them.   That implies to me that the bulk of the drum writing was in JP's hands...NOT MM's.   

So I tend to agree that this is the first time we will *truly* hear what Mike Mangini will bring to Dream Theater.

[Mosh]

Whether he wrote them or not, I don't hear a lot of personality in the drumming for ADTOE. Mostly beats to keep the band going. Which is expected, he wasn't part of the writing process and had to do these parts on really short notice. That's why DT12 is going to be "Mangini unleashed", I expect the difference in drumming to be mind blowing, at the very least.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

FOR THE LAST TIME.

JOHN PETRUCCI DID *NOT* WRITE THE DRUMS ON A DRAMATIC TURN OF EVENTS. HE WROTE THE MOST BASIC BASS AND SNARE ACCENTS PRIMARILY FOR THE BAND TO PLAY ALONG TO. MANGINI DID HIS OWN THING.

MANGINI WROTE AND PLAYED THE DRUMS ON A DRAMATIC TURN OF EVENTS.

Mangini didn't really give us anything, because the drum patterns were written by Petrucci.

Well.. I think it has been well documented that JP more or less "wrote" the drum parts for ADTOE.
Mangini have said in interviews that probably 70% of the original grooves, hits and feels from JPs programmed drums were kept for the final recordings.
That doesent mean that Mike didnt add his personality to the previous record (30% is still a pretty large amount of input), but he defenitely didnt have nearly as much input when it comes to creating and arranging the drum parts as we will hear on DT12.

Mike Mangini contributed a heck of a lot more than 30% of the drum parts on ADToE. JP programmed some basic ideas, but Mangini contributed most of the actual grooves and fills. Suggesting that he had such a minimal role on ADToE is just silly.

The difference on the new album is that he was there for and actively contributed to the writing process of the actual songs themselves.

This. I don't know how that idea keeps perpetuating itself. JP is not a drummer and doesn't play drums. When you listen to those tracks it is very apparent they had a professional drummer come in and do significant interpretation. People don't realize how much we actually got from MM on the last album it appears. Listen to the instrumental section in Outcry, for example. It's very obvious that a non-drummer did not "write" that drumming as it is on the album. Jeez. Makes me feel like people aren't even listening to the parts and are just going by a misunderstanding of what JP said and has clarified numerous times.

[TheGreatPretender]

Mike Mangini contributed a heck of a lot more than 30% of the drum parts on ADToE. JP programmed some basic ideas, but Mangini contributed most of the actual grooves and fills. Suggesting that he had such a minimal role on ADToE is just silly.

The difference on the new album is that he was there for and actively contributed to the writing process of the actual songs themselves.

I'm not saying that he had a minimal role in ADTOE, I'm just saying that he still had to work around a basic framework provided by someone else. The way I see it is, comparing MM's role in ADOTE to MP's role in I&W, SFAM and SDOIT is like comparing two really good artists, one working on a paint by numbers picture, the other a blank canvas. Mike Mangini might be a genius and put his best brush strokes and utmost quality into that paint by numbers painting, but he's still working within an outline done by someone else, whereas Portnoy had the opportunity to use his imagination and create his work from scratch.

[jammindude]

BTW...I havn't responded to the poll...because I still don't know which question is being asked.

[eviljust]

ADTOE drum parts are drum machine only.

Sorry, but that's absolutely wrong.

Eviljust, you are mistaken.  This has been explained by the band numerous times.  To this day, I don't understand why a small number of fans seem to think the above is true.  Here are the facts:  When initially writing, JP programs some initial thoughts for basic drum patterns.  Mangini listened to them and then wrote his own drum parts, with input from the rest of the band.  Sometimes, he stayed with the basic pattern JP had programmed, and used that as the skeleton for what became an obviously more elaborate drum part.  Sometimes, he did his own thing and wrote something different.  But what was originally given to him was just a skeleton and does not really resemble what Mike ultimately recorded.  If you want to discuss this further, do a search for one of the threads where discussion of this issue would be on topic and discuss it there.

Thought this woulda been helpful

[TheGreatPretender]

But he still had to work within the rhythm that JP created. I mean, in terms of the actual guitar, keyboard, etc. parts. Those were already recorded, correct? So it's not like MM could've just added a beat here and there in his fills, or changed the song structure. So he was still working within certain limits.

I mean, he, JP, and JR all confirmed that this time around, it was a completely different situation, and a completely different result. So obviously what we've heard on ADTOE was not, "Mangini at his full potential."

[eviljust]

But he still had to work within the rhythm that JP created. I mean, in terms of the actual guitar, keyboard, etc. parts. Those were already recorded, correct? So it's not like MM could've just added a beat here and there in his fills, or changed the song structure. So he was still working within certain limits.

I mean, he, JP, and JR all confirmed that this time around, it was a completely different situation, and a completely different result. So obviously what we've heard on ADTOE was not, "Mangini at his full potential."

Yeah that's what I thought myself too when I wrote that. Not a real contribution in the writing process, that doesn't mean he didn't put any ideas on it.

[TheGreatPretender]

Yeah that's what I thought myself too when I wrote that. Not a real contribution in the writing process, that doesn't mean he didn't put any ideas on it.

Right, but my whole original argument came from the fact that someone basically said, "MP created such amazing albums as I&W, SDOIT and SFAM, while Mangini's drum work on ADTOE wasn't that good." My whole point was that ADTOE is not a good indicator of what Mangini is truly bringing to the band.

[eviljust]

Yeah that's what I thought myself too when I wrote that. Not a real contribution in the writing process, that doesn't mean he didn't put any ideas on it.

Right, but my whole original argument came from the fact that someone basically said, "MP created such amazing albums as I&W, SDOIT and SFAM, while Mangini's drum work on ADTOE wasn't that good." My whole point was that ADTOE is not a good indicator of what Mangini is truly bringing to the band.

Totally agree with you. That's also one of the reasons, as a drummer, I'm waiting DT12 like probably I've never had and am absolutely thrilled about it.

[Aythesryche]

lol yeah JP did all the work making his outline and Mangini just played connect the dots.

[Zook]

I believe Portnoy was running DT into the ground. I love songs like The Glass Prison, and Train of Thought is awesome. Some people think TOT was forced, but I think it sounds natural for them going way out of their element like that even though TGP was just as heavy, but back then Portnoy wasn't trying to be so METUL. With SC and BCSL, Portnoy's METUL influence sounded so force and with sections like "day after day", obnoxious. He was trying too hard. I realize there are four other guys in the band, but based on studio updates and even The SC documentary, it looked like MP was forcing what he wanted on the guys.

To answer the first question, no. I don't think he would contribute anything I'd like currently. I like all but one song on SC, but I still don't really have an urge to give it a listen that much. I only like 2 out of the 6 on BCSL, The Shattered Fortress and The Count of Tuscany. Even though Portnoy's try too hard tough guy vox are present on TSF, I really like the arrangement of the song and the concept of all the past riffs and melodies throughout the AA Suite. and I'm also one of the few who loves Jordan's solo. But I kind of wore those songs out a few years ago, and they just don't have the same replayability as classic DT. Again, not entirely MP's fault, but with his current musical taste at the time, he was taking the band into a direction that just wasn't them. Dream Theater play excellent metal music, but to me, the last two with Portnoy just sounded like they were trying way too hard to be balls to the wall.

The second question, yes and no. Mike Portnoy is and was a phenomenal drummer, and up to Octavarium, I loved him. Granted I didn't get into the band until after Score was released, but listening to all the albums, and usually paying attention to the drums, Mike was incredible. He didn't really have the same flare with SC and BCSL. We know now that he wanted to take a break as far back as SC or was feeling burnt out, so I guess that affected his drumming. He didn't win his usual drum award either. So I miss pre-SC Mike Portnoy, but I could do without current MP. I'm still up for an anniversary show, but to be back in the band permanently, no thanks. Even if I don't like DT12 that much, I still like Mangini in the band, even if ADTOE wasn't the most memorable either.

[Onno]

lol yeah JP did all the work making his outline and Mangini just played connect the dots.

Spot on.

[The Clairvoyant]

James LaBrie said that Mike Portnoy is not coming back, or better, he will not come back. Mangini is the drummer until the end of their career, he is a permanent member. Anyway we shall see what the future holds.
Portnoy is a great drummer, a great musician, but after 2006 he changed musically first, systematic chaos is a good album but honestly songs like constant motion and the dark eternal night I don't like so much because there is a little bit of growl I think. Black Clouds & Silver Linings is better than systematic chaos but it could be better.
Anyway are both good albums especillay "black clouds & silver linings", but he changed is mind starting from early 2010 when he started to collaborate with other artists like avenged sevenfold and so in 2010 Dream Theater in 2010 toured less than all their previous tours cause he had to tour with other artists and so I think it's not correct. So in fall 2010 he needed a break of 5 years from dream theater because I think he was very tired of dream theater and so he left in september.
Now he said he has had his break even if until know he has had a break of 3 years instead of 5 like he wanted firstly. What he does now is Touring sometime, every 7 or 8 months doing 2 or 3 shows occasionally even if he has done different projects around 2011 and especially 2012, but this year he left adreanline mob and sometimes he has done some shows. Now he said he is ready to come back in dream theater, but doors are closed, and as we know Petrucci and the Other member of dream theater don't never answer to his declarations and I think there is a reason.

[Bertielee]

James LaBrie said that Mike Portnoy is not coming back, or better, he will not come back. Mangini is the drummer until the end of their career, he is a permanent member. Anyway we shall see what the future holds.
Portnoy is a great drummer, a great musician, but after 2006 he changed musically first, systematic chaos is a good album but honestly songs like constant motion and the dark eternal night I don't like so much because there is a little bit of growl I think. Black Clouds & Silver Linings is better than systematic chaos but it could be better.
Anyway are both good albums especillay "black clouds & silver linings", but he changed is mind starting from early 2010 when he started to collaborate with other artists like avenged sevenfold and so in 2010 Dream Theater in 2010 toured less than all their previous tours cause he had to tour with other artists and so I think it's not correct. So in fall 2010 he needed a break of 5 years from dream theater because I think he was very tired of dream theater and so he left in september.
Now he said he has had his break even if until know he has had a break of 3 years instead of 5 like he wanted firstly. What he does now is Touring sometime, every 7 or 8 months doing 2 or 3 shows occasionally even if he has done different projects around 2011 and especially 2012, but this year he left adreanline mob and sometimes he has done some shows. Now he said he is ready to come back in dream theater, but doors are closed, and as we know Petrucci and the Other member of dream theater don't never answer to his declarations and I think there is a reason.

Where did you get this info : he said he is ready to come back to DT? Source (or did I miss something?)?

B.Lee

[Zook]

Blabbermouth posted a quote out of context.

I know, shocker.

Mike does think the band are trying to prove themselves without him, which is crap.

[aprilethereal]

Where did you get this info : he said he is ready to come back to DT? Source (or did I miss something?)?

B.Lee

"Mike was also asked whether he would one day be willing to reunite with DREAM THEATER and rejoin the band as their drummer. "Sure," he replied. "I would do it in a heartbeat. They are the ones that have closed the door on it. I've only needed a break, and I've had that break. So I'm ready, willing and able. But I honestly don't think they ever will; they've closed their door on it and I think they're too headstrong in having to prove themselves without me. So I wouldn't count on it. But my door is always open."

https://blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=193252

[Zook]

That would be the out of context quote.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I believe Portnoy was running DT into the ground. I love songs like The Glass Prison, and Train of Thought is awesome. Some people think TOT was forced, but I think it sounds natural for them going way out of their element like that even though TGP was just as heavy, but back then Portnoy wasn't trying to be so METUL. With SC and BCSL, Portnoy's METUL influence sounded so force and with sections like "day after day", obnoxious. He was trying too hard. I realize there are four other guys in the band, but based on studio updates and even The SC documentary, it looked like MP was forcing what he wanted on the guys.

To answer the first question, no. I don't think he would contribute anything I'd like currently. I like all but one song on SC, but I still don't really have an urge to give it a listen that much. I only like 2 out of the 6 on BCSL, The Shattered Fortress and The Count of Tuscany. Even though Portnoy's try too hard tough guy vox are present on TSF, I really like the arrangement of the song and the concept of all the past riffs and melodies throughout the AA Suite. and I'm also one of the few who loves Jordan's solo. But I kind of wore those songs out a few years ago, and they just don't have the same replayability as classic DT. Again, not entirely MP's fault, but with his current musical taste at the time, he was taking the band into a direction that just wasn't them. Dream Theater play excellent metal music, but to me, the last two with Portnoy just sounded like they were trying way too hard to be balls to the wall.

The second question, yes and no. Mike Portnoy is and was a phenomenal drummer, and up to Octavarium, I loved him. Granted I didn't get into the band until after Score was released, but listening to all the albums, and usually paying attention to the drums, Mike was incredible. He didn't really have the same flare with SC and BCSL. We know now that he wanted to take a break as far back as SC or was feeling burnt out, so I guess that affected his drumming. He didn't win his usual drum award either. So I miss pre-SC Mike Portnoy, but I could do without current MP. I'm still up for an anniversary show, but to be back in the band permanently, no thanks. Even if I don't like DT12 that much, I still like Mangini in the band, even if ADTOE wasn't the most memorable either.

Spot on, dude. I´m a fan since the ACOS EP came out, and have the exact same opinion.

And as someone else said in the thread, the guys in DT have not responded to a single MP comment about the band since he left. The last comment I remember was James saying he was "not sad at all" by MP leaving, and that goes as far back as 2010. Whether MP wants to move on or get back to DT, he should do exactly the same, and not even respond to questions like that. He comes across as bitter and insecure when he still talks about DT today in those terms.

[Bertielee]

Where did you get this info : he said he is ready to come back to DT? Source (or did I miss something?)?

B.Lee

"Mike was also asked whether he would one day be willing to reunite with DREAM THEATER and rejoin the band as their drummer. "Sure," he replied. "I would do it in a heartbeat. They are the ones that have closed the door on it. I've only needed a break, and I've had that break. So I'm ready, willing and able. But I honestly don't think they ever will; they've closed their door on it and I think they're too headstrong in having to prove themselves without me. So I wouldn't count on it. But my door is always open."

https://blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=193252

And since when are we counting on Blabbermouth to get REAL info?

B.Lee

[MoraWintersoul]

lol yeah JP did all the work making his outline and Mangini just played connect the dots.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.


I love Mike Mangini so much, if anything ever gets in the way of his being in DT (unless it's his decision to retire or something like that), I'm going to hate that thing/person/event with the fire of a million burning suns. It's not a question of whether I would want MP back, even if a part of me did, I don't want to be in the situation where we'd speculate about that. I want MM in this band forever.

[Kotowboy]

Where did you get this info : he said he is ready to come back to DT? Source (or did I miss something?)?

B.Lee

"Mike was also asked whether he would one day be willing to reunite with DREAM THEATER and rejoin the band as their drummer. "Sure," he replied. "I would do it in a heartbeat. They are the ones that have closed the door on it. I've only needed a break, and I've had that break. So I'm ready, willing and able. But I honestly don't think they ever will; they've closed their door on it and I think they're too headstrong in having to prove themselves without me. So I wouldn't count on it. But my door is always open."

https://blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=193252

" Portnoy will be back ".

Some people just can't accept that MM is here to stay...



Additional : I have read Petrucci specifically say his drum contribution to ADTOE was nothing but bass and snare hits for each song just to show where to accent etc..

It's not like he sat down with Superior drummer and wrote each song out for the entire drumkit..Toms, octobans, cymbals, drum fills and all.

[aprilethereal]

Where did you get this info : he said he is ready to come back to DT? Source (or did I miss something?)?

B.Lee

"Mike was also asked whether he would one day be willing to reunite with DREAM THEATER and rejoin the band as their drummer. "Sure," he replied. "I would do it in a heartbeat. They are the ones that have closed the door on it. I've only needed a break, and I've had that break. So I'm ready, willing and able. But I honestly don't think they ever will; they've closed their door on it and I think they're too headstrong in having to prove themselves without me. So I wouldn't count on it. But my door is always open."

https://blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=193252

" Portnoy will be back ".

Some people just can't accept that MM is here to stay...

[Kotowboy]

Are you one of them ?

Listening to Images & Words every night going " man - i can't wait til Portnoy comes back. "

[aprilethereal]

I'm not, the was simply because I can't see any relation between your comment and my post that you quoted.


And I&W is still one of my least favourites. No need to listen to that one every night

[AleBl4st]

When I first read the title of this thread I thought: "WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE OUR SECRET HOLY PLACE I CAME HERE AT NIGHT TO PRAY TO HIM BY CANDLELIGHT". Dream Theater sickness!

But I would prefer the actual lineup.

[Kotowboy]

I'm not, the was simply because I can't see any relation between your comment and my post that you quoted.


And I&W is still one of my least favourites. No need to listen to that one every night

It was in the comments of the CrapperMouth article you linked to  




Anyway - I wouldn't want Portnoy back for personal reasons but moreover - it would be Dream Theater going in reverse for probably the first time in their

career. They've been moving forward and upwards for almost thirty years, so why stop now ?

[aprilethereal]

okay I thought you were talking about my point of view or something

which is definitely not that I want MP back in the band.

[TheGreatPretender]

lol yeah JP did all the work making his outline and Mangini just played connect the dots.

If you want to use that analogy, then let me put it this way, your picture is accurate. But this time, MM will have the creative freedom to draw someone prettier and with her top off. 

[The Boomr]

Haven't read most of the posts in this thread, but here's my two cents.

I definitely do not want MP back in Dream Theater. I was torn up when he left, very upset, and it took a while for me to realize Mangini was the right replacement, but I'm now fully converted and I love Mangini and appreciate his playing even more than I do Portnoy's Mangini needs to stay. For a long time.

I absolutely love Flying Colors, so MP needs to keep doing that. Winery Dogs are pretty decent, not as amazing as I initially thought, but cool enough. Adrenaline Mob was BORING, imo.

The only thing I want to happen at some point in the future is a reunion show with MP, at which they play the entire 12-Step Suite. I would wet my pants. If they did that and I went to it, over half of my Dream Theater wishes would be coming true all in one single show. And then I wouldn't care about seeing MP ever again Maybe there'll be a reunion for the 30th? Doesn't seem too far-fetched...