Would you like to see Portnoy back in Dream theater?

[nikatapi]

That´s why I see a JP dictatorship in the band since MP left.
He doesn´t give a damn to the bass and drum lines. All he cares about is the guitar!
I can´t hear the bass, the drums sound awful, the guitars sound great.

While i have shared a lot of criticism on the last two albums' mix, bass is definitely up front in the mix, especially on DT12. Maybe a problem with your equipment?

[KevShmev]

Yeah, if you can't hear the bass during JP's solo in The Looking Glass, or during the Pursuit of Truth section of Illumination Theory, or during the first verse of Breaking All Illusions, etc., then you probably need new ears.

[mikeyd23]

Yeah, DT12 actually made nice room for the bass not only in production and where it sat in the mix, but also in the arrangements. Additionally, the drums were a pretty good volume on DT12, just the manner in which they were produced made the sound a little lacking sonically, but volume-wise it was good.

I think DT fans often forget that the drum tracks on previous MP-era DT albums were pretty loud, louder than most bands mix the drums. So just because the drums aren't as loud now, doesn't mean they are too quiet and more than likely isn't the result of who is still there producing (JP) but more likely because of who is not there anymore (MP).

[Kotowboy]

You can't hear the bass on MP albums - but you can since he left - ergo - JP hates bass ?

[BlobVanDam]

You can't hear the bass on MP albums - but you can since he left - ergo - JP hates bass ?

You can hear the bass on all DT albums. People must have some awful audio equipment.

[KevShmev]

Agreed.  Sure, there are many times the bass does not stand out, but considering how often Myung doubles what the guitar and/or drums are/is doing, that is to be expected. 

[rumborak]

Nah, come on guys. The bass being super-low in the mix has been a mainstay complaint for decades at this point. But, IMO they improved that for ADTOE and DT12.

[BlobVanDam]

I can only think of a very small number of DT songs where I have the complaint of the bass being difficult to hear, and one of those is on ADTOE.

[bosk1]

Nah, come on guys. The bass being super-low in the mix has been a mainstay complaint for decades at this point. But, IMO they improved that for ADTOE and DT12.

I wouldn't say "decades," but it HAS been a standard complaint for awhile.  TOT through Black Clouds were the prime offenders, IMO.  Not that you couldn't hear the bass, and there are certainly leads where it stands out on all of those albums, but it is comparatively very low in the mix on those albums for the most part.

[ReaPsTA]

ToT's bass is fine if you're using a sub, because in the mix it's all low end.  But there's no mid range or top end.

[nikatapi]

We also have to consider that JM's playing has been more of the "supporting" type in the recent albums, with less leads compared to Awake and I&W, i think it was audible most of the time, it's just his playing became a little simpler.

On ADTOE and DT12 he has improved his input imo, with more interesting lines, but that might have to do with the reduced heaviness of these albums, since JM has more room if the song is not very riff oriented.

[BlobVanDam]

Nah, come on guys. The bass being super-low in the mix has been a mainstay complaint for decades at this point. But, IMO they improved that for ADTOE and DT12.

I wouldn't say "decades," but it HAS been a standard complaint for awhile.  TOT through Black Clouds were the prime offenders, IMO.  Not that you couldn't hear the bass, and there are certainly leads where it stands out on all of those albums, but it is comparatively very low in the mix on those albums for the most part.

I disagree. It is cranked on ToT, the majority of SC, and BCASL with an asterisk, and just right on 8V. If people aren't hearing it, it's likely a combination of not being able to differentiate it from the guitar when it's doubling (especially when JM is using a distorted tone), or having low end equipment that doesn't cover the full frequencies, and doesn't have good clarity of separation, which especially becomes an issue on highly compressed albums.

The mix on 8V is clear, and does every instrument equal justice. The bass isn't over bearing, but it's definitely not low enough to have any issues hearing JM at all, much less consider it super low. So many standout JM moments that I have no problem hearing even under the heavy guitars, like dem octave bass slides during the verse of PA. And there are more parts than I could list where the arrangement puts JM front and center without even competing with the guitars at all. It's generally not a heavy riff oriented album where the bass blends in.

On ToT, I don't know how anyone can not hear the bass. It's so in your face, beginning to end. I can hear all of the tasty fills all over the neck in SoC and ITNOG, and in the rest it is so fat doubling the guitars that you can't miss it. You could not want that bass any louder.

Mostly the same deal on SC. JM's rumbley bass shines through, and he's a star on ITPOE and TDEN. There are moments where he's not as loud, but they're the exception rather than the rule, and still definitely audible.

BCASL however, has the bass EQ'd into a very low frequency that from what I recall is difficult or impossible to hear on cheaper speakers without low end, but will rattle your sub if you've got a system that supports those frequencies. I do still consider that a serious mixing/mastering problem, as it is not correctly designed to sound equally good on lower end equipment, but for the most part, it's definitely there! It just doesn't play nicely with all equipment. That is the worst of the bunch in that regard though, and I see why that issue affects many.

JM's bass is just as low or lower on BMUBMD and TEI than any of the albums people complain about with apparent lacking bass. Other than that, I can hear the bass well on all DT albums. Is it always perfect? No, but the bass volume is the least of the mixing/mastering issues on the RR era DT albums, and has almost never been "super low".

I suggest you all either get better audio gear, or better ears.

[KevShmev]

We also have to consider that JM's playing has been more of the "supporting" type in the recent albums, with less leads compared to Awake and I&W, i think it was audible most of the time, it's just his playing became a little simpler.

On ADTOE and DT12 he has improved his input imo, with more interesting lines, but that might have to do with the reduced heaviness of these albums, since JM has more room if the song is not very riff oriented.

I agree with much of this.  When you consider that LTE is basically instrumental DT with Tony Levin instead of John Myung, the difference is more than noticeable in the bass playing of the two.  Levin's lines are always so innovative and creative, and just scream to be high in the mix, while many of Myung's, like you said, are in the supporting role.  When the bass is doubling the guitar or drums, it goes without saying that it is basically gonna drowned out a lot, since it makes more sense to have the guitar and drums louder in those instances, considering the DT signature sound.

[robwebster]

I suggest you all either get better audio gear, or better ears.

"Small?! It's MASSIVE! Get a better microscope!"

[Lucien]

Bass on DT12 is the loudest it's been since FII.

[TheGreatPretender]

I suggest you all either get better audio gear, or better ears.

Maybe you're the one who... Needs something smaller.

[Jamesman42]

Wut. The bass on TOT is excellent. I love that tone.

Actually, the bass on many DT albums is great. I find it lacking on SC and BCSL though.

[Grizz]

I'll give all the albums a thorough lossless listening when I find a decent pair of speakers for a decent price. (Note: I go by the  cheap pri frugal personality definition of inexpensive, not the audiophile definition.)

[ReaPsTA]

The bass mix on BCSL is very unfortunate.  Even though I've listened to every bass stem, there are still many parts of the album where I can't distinguish the bass.

[BlobVanDam]

I suggest you all either get better audio gear, or better ears.

Maybe you're the one who... Needs something smaller.

Hm, Nope, I think my studio monitor headphones are just about perfect, especially after reading this thread.

[TheGreatPretender]

Hm, Nope, I think my studio monitor headphones are just about perfect, especially after reading this thread.

I don't know if I believe you. Why don't you mail those headphones to me, so that I can try them out. I'll let you know what I think, and mail them right back... Honest.

[BlobVanDam]

Hm, Nope, I think my studio monitor headphones are just about perfect, especially after reading this thread.

I don't know if I believe you. Why don't you mail those headphones to me, so that I can try them out. I'll let you know what I think, and mail them right back... Honest.

Seems legit! I'll just require you to deposit a small sum of money into my account first to cover the shipping costs from my home in Nigeria. You can trust me, I'm a prince.

[TheGreatPretender]

Seems legit! I'll just require you to deposit a small sum of money into my account first to cover the shipping costs from my home in Nigeria. You can trust me, I'm a prince.

Not sure if I know how to do that. How about I just give you my credit card information?

[Invisible]

I can somewhat understand people saying Myung can't be heard when he's doubling JP, it's a common thing with bassist, but I'm baffled at all the comments saying he can't be heard on ToT and SC, and this comes from someone who has problems spotting instruments. Trust me, I suck at hearing but in ToT he's so in your face I don't understand how can you miss him.
I listen with headphones and the only album where I lose him sometimes is BC&SL, otherwise I can hear him just fine. Most of the times people say he can be heard, it's only because he gets his minutes in the spotlight without the guitars, so I'm guessing you all just have trouble identifying the bass or mistake him for another guitar when he's on the higher range of the instrument.

The only member of the band that actually gets buried sometimes it's Rudess(especially when he shares frequencies with JP, we all know who always wins in a guitar vs keys mix), and Mangini in the latest release with some his cymbals(or may be we're just used to the drums being in our face on the MP days), but the bass is always audible enough for even a casual listener to spot.