Why is Systematic Chaos hated so much?

[Lowdz]

One day I will meet someone else who likes Prophets Of War.

It shall be a glorious day.

It was a good live song when I saw them back in 2009 in Montreal.

I like it, it just suffers from following 3 less than stellar (for DT) songs.

I love the riffs, just not as keen on the Muse-isms.

[PwnsomeWin]

One day I will meet someone else who likes Prophets Of War.

It shall be a glorious day.

Prophets Of War is awesome!

[JayOctavarium]

One day I will meet someone else who likes Prophets Of War.

It shall be a glorious day.

It was a good live song when I saw them back in 2009 in Montreal.

I just wish MP would have actually sang (rapped?) the rapping / spoken word part

[Moonchild]

I kinda like Prophets... 

[theseoafs]

Prophets of War is fantastic.  Hands-down the best song on SC.

You're just screwing with us, aren't you?

Nah, I've made my position on PoW clear.  It's the only SC song that I can completely enjoy all the way through.

[Kotowboy]

Still waiting for Robwebster to come in and defend the album

[TheGreatPretender]

Nah, I've made my position on PoW clear.  It's the only SC song that I can completely enjoy all the way through.

I guess I forgot about that.

[Xanadu]

I listened SC to death when it first got out. I absolutely loved it!
The problem was it wore out pretty quick.
Fast forward six years, and it´s probably the DT-album i listen the least to.
The shorter songs feel uninspired, and the longer ones feel "long just because we want to make long songs". The only exception is ITPOEpt1 which IMO is one of the best album openers they have. In fact, that song (or pt1 of the entire song) is the only song i really listen to if i re-visit the album.
It have aged really badly..

[Lucidity]

As far as I'm concerned, SC and FII are both albums of songs ranging from good to "meh" with two absolute masterpieces mixed in. I don't think SC should be considered a worse album than FII unless you just like the atmosphere of FII more, because that's the only distinction as far as formula goes. I think they're both fantastic.

[aprilethereal]

I don't think SC should be considered a worse album than FII

It should. FII is great with some awesome songs, SC is pretty good with some great songs.

[TheGreatPretender]

I just find it funny that whenever there is a thread that says, "Why does everyone hate SC," or something along the lines of, "SC appreciation thread" or just, anything regarding the album itself, people come in and say, "It's really not so bad. I enjoy it quite a bit." But outside these threads, it seems to be treated like the black sheep of DT's catalogue.

[Bolsters]

I just find it funny that whenever there is a thread that says, "Why does everyone hate SC," or something along the lines of, "SC appreciation thread" or just, anything regarding the album itself, people come in and say, "It's really not so bad. I enjoy it quite a bit." But outside these threads, it seems to be treated like the black sheep of DT's catalogue.

I think it's because most people (not all, I know ) would feel a bit dickish about going into an appreciation thread and talking about how they don't like the song or album in question. I personally don't post at all in appreciation threads for songs I don't like, for example. So those threads end up having a bias in favour of that song/album, which isn't present on the rest of the forum.

[TheGreatPretender]

I think it's because most people (not all, I know ) would feel a bit dickish about going into an appreciation thread and talking about how they don't like the song or album in question. I personally don't post at all in appreciation threads for songs I don't like, for example. So those threads end up having a bias in favour of that song/album, which isn't present on the rest of the forum.

Well, that's true. But still, this thread, for example, is asking why everyone hates it, so you'd think people would come in and say, "Because this and that."

But no. Systematic Chaos rules! 

[jonnybaxy]

I have the

[Mosh]

As far as I'm concerned, SC and FII are both albums of songs ranging from good to "meh" with two absolute masterpieces mixed in. I don't think SC should be considered a worse album than FII unless you just like the atmosphere of FII more, because that's the only distinction as far as formula goes. I think they're both fantastic.

Highly disagree with that. SC feels more jammed out, more heavy and much more technical. With FII, the songwriting is more focused and each track has its own distinct style. Two very different albums.

[Scorpion]

Yeah, I agree with Mosh. Plus, I'd say that SC has three good songs, whereas all but two songs on FII are really good.

[aprilethereal]

all but two songs on FII are really good.

Three

[The Boomr]

FII is by far my least favorite album. I've learned to at least appreciate, and even like, most of it, (and Lines in the Sand is one of my top 5 songsbut in the beginning listens of that album it was rough, lol. SC is up there in my album rankings, though I struggle to assign specific number ranks to anything Dream  Theater because it's all just so good, to me.

Also, apparently I started a nice little completely useless :clap:ing trend, hehe.

[Scorpion]

all but two songs on FII are really good.

Three

I'd say NM and YNM, which would you say (or add)?

[Full Speed]

SC is my least favorite DT album. I just find most of the songs on the album flat or boring. I know most fans look at ITPOE as one big song, but in my min

Dislike:
Forsaken is okay, but like most of their recent second-track single friendly songs, I got sick of it quickly.
CM feels like an unispired Metallica song with little to no originality.
TDEN is trying for the cheese factor but it just doesn't work for me.
Repentance is way too long for what its trying to do. I think I've only made it all the way through a hand full of times.
TMOLS just bores me, even the faster instramental section.
ITPOE part 2 has a similar cheese factor that TDEN had. There are some parts I do like a good bit, but I still don't listen to it very often. I do like most of part 1 though.

Like:
POW is the only track I completely love start to finish. I get nothing but enjoyment out of the parts most people complain about (muse/queen influences, Mike's rap setion, etc).

[bosk1]

As far as I'm concerned, SC and FII are both albums of songs ranging from good to "meh" with two absolute masterpieces mixed in. I don't think SC should be considered a worse album than FII unless you just like the atmosphere of FII more, because that's the only distinction as far as formula goes. I think they're both fantastic.

Yeah, I rate I&W, FII, and SC very similarly in that regard.

[Jaffa]

As far as I'm concerned, SC and FII are both albums of songs ranging from good to "meh" with two absolute masterpieces mixed in. I don't think SC should be considered a worse album than FII unless you just like the atmosphere of FII more, because that's the only distinction as far as formula goes. I think they're both fantastic.

Yeah, I rate I&W, FII, and SC very similarly in that regard.

Can I ask what the 'meh' songs on I&W are?  I'm just curious. 

[bosk1]

As far as I'm concerned, SC and FII are both albums of songs ranging from good to "meh" with two absolute masterpieces mixed in. I don't think SC should be considered a worse album than FII unless you just like the atmosphere of FII more, because that's the only distinction as far as formula goes. I think they're both fantastic.

Yeah, I rate I&W, FII, and SC very similarly in that regard.

Can I ask what the 'meh' songs on I&W are?  I'm just curious. 

I've posted it before, but yeah:  I don't like Another Day at all.  And as for songs that I consider "just okay, usually don't have a desire to listen, but they have some good moments that I want to hear every once-in-awhile":  Surrounded, Take The Time, and Under A Glass Moon.

[theseoafs]

And as for songs that I consider "just okay, usually don't have a desire to listen, but they have some good moments that I want to hear every once-in-awhile":  Surrounded, Take The Time, and Under A Glass Moon.

.... *twitch*

[Jaffa]

As far as I'm concerned, SC and FII are both albums of songs ranging from good to "meh" with two absolute masterpieces mixed in. I don't think SC should be considered a worse album than FII unless you just like the atmosphere of FII more, because that's the only distinction as far as formula goes. I think they're both fantastic.

Yeah, I rate I&W, FII, and SC very similarly in that regard.

Can I ask what the 'meh' songs on I&W are?  I'm just curious. 

I've posted it before, but yeah:  I don't like Another Day at all.  And as for songs that I consider "just okay, usually don't have a desire to listen, but they have some good moments that I want to hear every once-in-awhile":  Surrounded, Take The Time, and Under A Glass Moon.

Fair enough.  We are not a match.   

Sorry to make you repeat yourself, by the way.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I've posted it before, but yeah:  I don't like Another Day at all.  And as for songs that I consider "just okay, usually don't have a desire to listen, but they have some good moments that I want to hear every once-in-awhile":  Surrounded, Take The Time, and Under A Glass Moon.

[Ben_Jamin]

I listen to PoW a lot more than ITPOE. Dont ask me why, but I think its the lyrics that speak to me a lot. I have no problem with the subject and feel the music  supports it pretty well with JR's synth.

Also, I love the little nuances in Repentance, the "ooo's" by JR.

[The Boomr]

And as for songs that I consider "just okay, usually don't have a desire to listen, but they have some good moments that I want to hear every once-in-awhile":  Surrounded, Take The Time, and Under A Glass Moon.

.... *twitch*

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Just as the title says. I've noticed that SC is really hated around the community. I honestly don't see why; out of the six DT albums I own (IAW, Awake, BC&SL, 8VM, TOT, SC), Systematic Chaos is my second favorite. I don't think any song on it is bad. The Dark Eternal Night is the only song that I can understand being hated, but I like that song as well. I just want to hear your opinions on why you dislike this album, if you do.

There are a few reasons why I dislike this album. Taking Enemies Pt. 1 out of the discussion-- since I believe it's a pretty strong track-- there is no song on this album that is great. I proceed to look at the other songs:

2. I like the piano intro, and the first guitar riff is good, and the guitar solo is okay. Also, the guitar part in the verse (for a while I thought I) is very musical; the articulation of the notes with the pick goes well with the lyrics and the story in that it sets the scene. I can go more in depth about this if you'd like. The main problem with the song though, is that it's just bad as a whole. A few good things here and there are ruined by what amounts to no more than a pop-metal/rock tune that was intended for a mainstream audience. And the song is just boring in general. The worst parts are the lyrics and the vocal melody, which in a song of this style, are meant to DRIVE the song. The lyrics are cheesy. The vocal melody is just not good either. It snakes around and doesn't make LaBrie sound good. You don't give this type of song to a singer like him. It's not a good mix. This song represents many things I do NOT like about some of DT's efforts over the years. I've spoken at length about how I feel about these mainstream songs, so I wont belabor the point here.

3. I enjoy the solo. It's something different for JP and I give him a lot of credit for not just wanking on a natural minor scale, which he easily could have done here. Other than that, a few riffs are good. There is literally nothing else I enjoy about this song. The vocal "melody" is messy. It sounds like James is going to trip over his words at any moment-- and I dont blame him at all for this.

4. Some cool guitar riffing. The vocalizing was a bad decision. Both primary and backing are hard to listen to and not laugh and/or cringe. The lyrics are just silly too. This was one of their more metal attempts and it had potential to be a lot bette but for the things I mentioned. The outro and solo are tolerable.

5. Why is this track 10 minutes? I don't even consider this track to be a song worth discussion. It COULD have gone somewhere, but it was mostly about the guest speakers and MP's personal journey. Fine. I get it. It just wasn't the swell tune I had in mind as part of the suite.

6,7,8. I am lumping these songs together because I believe they all suffer from the same affliction. These songs could easily have made my bottom 10 songs ever from DT's catalog of music. I do not enjoy a single moment of these. I remember listening to them after buying this album and being like "what happened to you Dream Theater?" Not one memorable solo, riff, vocal melody, nothing. I cannot, even as a die hard DT fan, bring myself to listen to any of these three from start to finish.

All in all, this is my opinion about the album. After I listened to it, I had to reflect on whether I wanted to continue listening to new Dream Theater albums anymore. The disc has ONE very good song...ONE. The rest are mediocre at best, and dreadful at their worst. DT is capable of so much more as musicians, song writers, and lyricists than this album showcased.

[KevShmev]

2. I like the piano intro, and the first guitar riff is good, and the guitar solo is okay. Also, the guitar part in the verse (for a while I thought I) is very musical; the articulation of the notes with the pick goes well with the lyrics and the story in that it sets the scene. I can go more in depth about this if you'd like. The main problem with the song though, is that it's just bad as a whole. A few good things here and there are ruined by what amounts to no more than a pop-metal/rock tune that was intended for a mainstream audience. And the song is just boring in general. The worst parts are the lyrics and the vocal melody, which in a song of this style, are meant to DRIVE the song. The lyrics are cheesy. The vocal melody is just not good either. It snakes around and doesn't make LaBrie sound good. You don't give this type of song to a singer like him. It's not a good mix. This song represents many things I do NOT like about some of DT's efforts over the years. I've spoken at length about how I feel about these mainstream songs, so I wont belabor the point here.

Totally agreed.  Had the vocal melody been tweaked a bit, Forsaken could have been a really good song, but the chorus just sounds so lazy and "off," which is a shame because the music in this song is actually quite good.  But yeah, the vocal melodies, especially in the chorus, just fall flat.

[TheGreatPretender]

We missed you boolshit... Just not your anti-SC propaganda.

[KevShmev]

  I don't think you know what propaganda actually means.  Although I do get that that was one of those "How dare you don't like something I like" posts.

[TheGreatPretender]

I don't think you know what propaganda actually means.  Although I do get that that was one of those "How dare you don't like something I like" posts.

I know what propaganda means. And me and Boolsheet have had extensive wars regarding SC (as I recall), so I think it was a fairly appropriate use of the word, if not 100% accurate.

[KevShmev]

So basically, if someone doesn't like something, and feels the need to express why in non-general terms, to you, that is propaganda? 

[bosk1]

We don't need to derail the thread by being pedantic.  Please keep it on topic.