Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[Mosh]

Obviously fake..

[BlobVanDam]

That's BS. It is wikipedia, after all. Anyone can add crap like that.

[JoeG]

Clearly fake. We would have heard from Noxon or one of the other people who has heard the album if there was such a discrepancy.

[Orthogonal]

Not sure why everyone is exclaiming "fake", when it could simply be a typo, the other track lengths I believe are correct.

[Mosh]

Uh, a typo doesn't make it any less fake. 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Not sure why everyone is exclaiming "fake", when it could simply be a typo, the other track lengths I believe are correct.

'Cause people are super intense in these parts during these days.

[Orthogonal]

Uh, a typo doesn't make it any less fake. 

Typically, when folks post "fake" as a response, it implies there's a deliberate attempt to troll or be a hoax. Not an accident.

[BlobVanDam]

Not sure why everyone is exclaiming "fake", when it could simply be a typo, the other track lengths I believe are correct.

It was correct, but someone purposefully changed it, and changed the album length to match.

Fake.

[Orthogonal]

I stand corrected   

[liran95]

I know many people feel the mellow bit of TCOT killed the pacing of the song, but I feel that's exactly what was intended. It's not meant to be a "small break" before the finale of the song, but rather the highlight of the song. And for me, it is super emotional. After the rush and the drama of the first 10 minutes, the character finally faces death. I feel like I'm floating in space. At peace. Not a care in the world. The character is facing death. And what does he feel? Serenity. Then, once I'm fully sedated by this mellow passage, an acoustic guitar brings  me slowly back out of my acceptance of death. It's like a human voice that is saying "I know you've accepted this fate, but this is not the time for you to go".

That.... might have been the cheesiest description of a song I've ever put to words 

You, sir, are my hero.

[Super Dude]

WTF!! 

This is on Wikipedia:

     No.   Title                                  Lyrics                    Length
   
      1.   "False Awakening Suite"      (instrumental)         12:42
      2.   "The Enemy Inside"             John Petrucci           6:17
      3.   "The Looking Glass"            Petrucci                  4:53
      4.   "Enigma Machine"              (instrumental)          6:02
      5.   "The Bigger Picture"            Petrucci                  7:41
      6.   "Behind the Veil"                Petrucci                  6:53
      7.   "Surrender to Reason"         John Myung             6:35
      8.   "Along for the Ride"            Petrucci                  4:45
      9.   "Illumination Theory"          Petrucci                  22:18

      Album Length: 78:06

I'd assume they did a mistake.. Just like Aquiles Priester... This can't be right... Or they added 10 more FAS minutes just for the final version??...

What the heck does that mean?

[Petruccinator12]

Maybe the +10 minutes for FAS ist their easter egg

[Kotowboy]

@Super Dude - I think it means that Aquiles made a mistake in his audition.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

WTF!! 

This is on Wikipedia:

     No.   Title                                  Lyrics                    Length
   
      1.   "False Awakening Suite"      (instrumental)         12:42
      2.   "The Enemy Inside"             John Petrucci           6:17
      3.   "The Looking Glass"            Petrucci                  4:53
      4.   "Enigma Machine"              (instrumental)          6:02
      5.   "The Bigger Picture"            Petrucci                  7:41
      6.   "Behind the Veil"                Petrucci                  6:53
      7.   "Surrender to Reason"         John Myung             6:35
      8.   "Along for the Ride"            Petrucci                  4:45
      9.   "Illumination Theory"          Petrucci                  22:18

      Album Length: 78:06

I'd assume they did a mistake.. Just like Aquiles Priester... This can't be right... Or they added 10 more FAS minutes just for the final version??...

What the heck does that mean?

Probably just a joking reference to his error-filled audition after which he said "I made some mistake."

[Kotowboy]

Imagine if DT used that in some lyrics....


" Nobody is perfect - Not even the genie.

We all make mistake - like Lang & Aquiles Priestie. "


" We're all human except Mike the magician

Lang wants a band - well keep on wishin' "

[a51502112]

Regarding the interview; I still want to know who the two people in that picture on the wall are.

[alexofsweden]

They've just added 1 to the original song lenght: 2:42

[Whatsername]

My guess is someone messed up and put a 1 in front of 2:42. Isn't that approximately the length that was confirmed for FAS?

Edit: Ninja'd by literally everyone.

[liran95]

Oh, if only FAS could be actually 12:42 min long 

I want SOC 2!

[ToT-147]

I'd assume they did a mistake.. Just like Aquiles Priester

What the heck does that mean?

Probably just a joking reference to his error-filled audition after which he said "I made some mistake."

Yeah, it was just that.. But actually he did say: "and I did some mistake, of course..." which me laughed a lot, and then the JR face  ... haha, epic moment...

Anyway, back to the wiki's tracklist... Leaving aside the lenght, for sure an error.. The column with the lyric writers.......

"False Awakening Suite"      (instrumental)         
"The Enemy Inside"             John Petrucci           
"The Looking Glass"            Petrucci                 
"Enigma Machine"              (instrumental)         
"The Bigger Picture"            Petrucci                 
"Behind the Veil"                Petrucci                 
"Surrender to Reason"         John Myung           
"Along for the Ride"            Petrucci                 
"Illumination Theory"          Petrucci     

There's no Pirate on it!!... I think maybe we don't have to trust in this source after all, due to the other fault.. Do we?

[The Stray Seed]

Anyway, back to the wiki's tracklist... Leaving aside the lenght, for sure an error.. The column with the lyric writers.......

"False Awakening Suite"      (instrumental)         
"The Enemy Inside"             John Petrucci           
"The Looking Glass"            Petrucci                 
"Enigma Machine"              (instrumental)         
"The Bigger Picture"            Petrucci                 
"Behind the Veil"                Petrucci                 
"Surrender to Reason"         John Myung           
"Along for the Ride"            Petrucci                 
"Illumination Theory"          Petrucci     

There's no Pirate on it!!... I think maybe we don't have to trust in this source after all, due to the other fault.. Do we?

JLB has confirmed in a recent interview that he did not write any lyrics for this album.

[wolven74]

DT12...Brought to you by the Johns.

[Ben_Jamin]

I like that part of TCOT, it's really melancholic and I think it did something new for DT at the time.

See the intro to Octavarium. The biggest difference is the placement.

I know many people feel the mellow bit of TCOT killed the pacing of the song, but I feel that's exactly what was intended. It's not meant to be a "small break" before the finale of the song, but rather the highlight of the song. And for me, it is super emotional. After the rush and the drama of the first 10 minutes, the character finally faces death. I feel like I'm floating in space. At peace. Not a care in the world. The character is facing death. And what does he feel? Serenity. Then, once I'm fully sedated by this mellow passage, an acoustic guitar brings  me slowly back out of my acceptance of death. It's like a human voice that is saying "I know you've accepted this fate, but this is not the time for you to go".

That.... might have been the cheesiest description of a song I've ever put to words 

I see that part as The Count leaving him alone in the dark church-like area while he goes and checks on something, and those swells/noises are things he hears like water dripping and his thoughts.

[TAC]

I like that part of TCOT, it's really melancholic and I think it did something new for DT at the time.

See the intro to Octavarium. The biggest difference is the placement.

I know many people feel the mellow bit of TCOT killed the pacing of the song, but I feel that's exactly what was intended. It's not meant to be a "small break" before the finale of the song, but rather the highlight of the song. And for me, it is super emotional. After the rush and the drama of the first 10 minutes, the character finally faces death. I feel like I'm floating in space. At peace. Not a care in the world. The character is facing death. And what does he feel? Serenity. Then, once I'm fully sedated by this mellow passage, an acoustic guitar brings  me slowly back out of my acceptance of death. It's like a human voice that is saying "I know you've accepted this fate, but this is not the time for you to go".

That.... might have been the cheesiest description of a song I've ever put to words 

I see that part as The Count leaving him alone in the dark church-like area while he goes and checks on something, and those swells/noises are things he hears like water dripping and his thoughts.

I'm with you m0hawk.

[425]

Anyway, back to the wiki's tracklist... Leaving aside the lenght, for sure an error.. The column with the lyric writers.......

"False Awakening Suite"      (instrumental)         
"The Enemy Inside"             John Petrucci           
"The Looking Glass"            Petrucci                 
"Enigma Machine"              (instrumental)         
"The Bigger Picture"            Petrucci                 
"Behind the Veil"                Petrucci                 
"Surrender to Reason"         John Myung           
"Along for the Ride"            Petrucci                 
"Illumination Theory"          Petrucci     

There's no Pirate on it!!... I think maybe we don't have to trust in this source after all, due to the other fault.. Do we?

Except: won't Surrender to Reason likely be credited to Myung and Petrucci for the same reason Breaking All Illusions was?

[ToT-147]

I hope not..

[?]

Why not? JP (as well as KevMo and MP back in the day) has always helped JM make the lyrics fit the songs, but it wasn't until 2011 that JM thought JP deserved a co-writing credit.

[OsMosis2259]

Interesting... I would have thought Labrie would have taken a track to pen some lyrics.

I guess it's understandable though because he just released a solo album.

[425]

I hope not..

You do understand that the reason for this is that Petrucci wrote the melodies and fit the lyrics to the song? As ? said, it's the same thing they've always done with Myung's lyrics, they just changed the system for assigning lyric credits. If Learning to Live or Trial of Tears was written today they would be credited to Myung/Petrucci (or possibly with Portnoy or Moore or LaBrie, depending on who specifically formatted those lyrics). BAI is basically "words by Myung, edited by Petrucci". I'm assuming STR will the same.

[Kotowboy]

How can Labrie call his albums his solo stuff when he doesn't write all the lyrics and doesn't write the music??

Surely it's just another band in which he is the singer?

[Dark Castle]

Matt went over it in the James Labrie thread. They go with James Labrie as it's more immediately noticeable than coming up with a band name. And I mean, isn't it practically the same thing as Ozzy, only Labrie is more involved and not drugged out ? Doesn't really bother me.

[theseoafs]

I think "solo" albums that were written entirely or mostly by the "solo" artist are the exception rather than the rule.

[425]

^ This. It's particularly true when the solo artist is a singer and not an instrumentalist. John Petrucci wrote his entire solo album, which was pretty heavily dominated by guitar, but it would be a lot harder for James to do that, particularly since he does not play an instrument.

[Kotowboy]

Perhaps they could have done something like

" James Labris's MullMuzzlers "

so it's best of both.

[wasteland]

James is a trained singer, but as far as I know he can't play any instrument seriously and has little if any theoretical background. That doesn't make him any less of a musician, though, I'm sure we all agree on this, and it doesn't mean his input is solely limited to the lyric/melody phase either.

It has been stated that the JLB solo project is a collaboration between James and Matt, with Matt being the primary composer but with the creative control being firmly in James's hands as well as in Matt's. They have an intense email exchange of demos, pieces of songs, recorded melodies, lyric suggestions and whatnot going on during the writing phase of their records, and James plays always an instrumental role in defining the song to the ultimate shape we are presented, with either suggestions, alterations or simply  aknowledgement. This is hardly the level of involvement of a simple "singer" for somebody else's band.

So, I would say, his solo albums are definitely "his stuff" as well as they are "Matt's stuff".