Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[RoeDent]

Some exciting new tidbits from the Petrucci interview with Ultimate Guitar, that's for sure! Spoiler alert, maybe...





- Enigma Machine is the instrumental.

- Illumination Theory is 22:17.

- The Bigger Picture is a ballad.

[Grisel]

I remember when this thread used to have 6 new pages every day. Now... silence.

Here am I, brand new at the forum (well, posting at least), bringing some life.

Illumination Theory 22:17! Woooha! I can't go through each page of this thread; do we already know who wrote each lyrics?

[Whatsername]

I love the overall concept of the new artwork. Still not sold on the finer details (lighting, textures, etc), but I'm probably overly-picky for the amount of experience I have in CG (slim, I'm still in school for it). It sets an interesting mood, and I definitely am looking forward to seeing more.

[mikeyd23]

Some exciting new tidbits from the Petrucci interview with Ultimate Guitar, that's for sure! Spoiler alert, maybe...
- Enigma Machine is the instrumental.
- Illumination Theory is 22:17.
- The Bigger Picture is a ballad.

Yeah,  a lot of cool info about JP's approach on some of the solos on the record too!  Sounds like some great stuff, I really look forward to hearing the variety of sounds and approaches he takes on the different solos across the record.

[mikemangioy]

Some exciting new tidbits from the Petrucci interview with Ultimate Guitar, that's for sure! Spoiler alert, maybe...





- Enigma Machine is the instrumental.

- Illumination Theory is 22:17.

- The Bigger Picture is a ballad.

link?

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/interviews/interviews/dream_theaters_john_petrucci_you_dont_have_to_be_afraid.html

[Ben_Jamin]

Ik really excited as this is the first true DT album since 6DOIT.

[Onno]

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/interviews/interviews/dream_theaters_john_petrucci_you_dont_have_to_be_afraid.html

Thanks for the link, very cool interview!

[Lucien]

The outro of "Illumination Theory" had that feeling of a man standing on a mountaintop with those guitars swelling.

Are you talking about after all the silence at the very end?

Exactly.

Yeah, that's like a little Easter egg we stuck in there. Yeah, that's volume swells with delay on it. But yeah, it has a very string kind of sound to it.

[Zook]

Damn, JP, Spoiler warnings please.

[JayOctavarium]

Splooge

[The Boomr]

Wows. I am honestly surprised that JP actually gave away what the "easter egg" is. I mean sure we all were pretty sure we were right in our speculation, but it would've been nice to get confirmation only once the album was in our hands. Still excited to hear whatever kind of apparently guitar solo it is, though.

I really enjoy most of what JP says about everything, but at the same time I'm kind of worried by this:

Oh definitely. Absolutely. In a rock band or a metal band whatever, the guitar sounds kind of dictates the way the album is gonna sound. Because it's a featured instrument and it takes up so much and it will sort of shape the direction and overall sound of the song. If it's really heavy, percussive and aggressive, that's the way the song is gonna sound. It's a very powerful instrument because it dictates the landscape you're setting up.

[Kotowboy]

Well he is right.

Metal and Hard Rock is all about the guitar. That's kind of the key instrument.

[Jaffa]

That's what I was looking for. It's just guitar, bass and drums there and there's no keys and vocals. A trio going for it with a lot of vinegar and a lot of improv.

I'm guessing Surrender to Reason was Vinegar Seed on the whiteboard, then. 

Anyway, really interesting interview. 

Except that the interviewer keeps referring to IT as 'Elimination Theory.' 

[The Boomr]

Well he is right.

Metal and Hard Rock is all about the guitar. That's kind of the key instrument.

I agree, but it's like he was ignoring the fact that Dream Theater has a huge progressive side...in which guitar does not in any way Have to be the featured instrument. His statements just seem like they could come off as maybe supporting the fact that many people think the guitars are too loud in TEI...

I dunno. Just speculation. I'm sure I'll love the album

[Kotowboy]

That's what I was looking for. It's just guitar, bass and drums there and there's no keys and vocals. A trio going for it with a lot of vinegar and a lot of improv.

I'm guessing Surrender to Reason was Vinegar Seed on the whiteboard, then. 

Anyway, really interesting interview. 

Except that the interviewer keeps referring to IT as 'Elimination Theory.' 

Which is understandable if this was a telephone interview.

[wolven74]

I noticed that too. Kinda annoying, actually.

[TheGreatPretender]

I agree, but it's like he was ignoring the fact that Dream Theater has a huge progressive side...in which guitar does not in any way Have to be the featured instrument. His statements just seem like they could come off as maybe supporting the fact that many people think the guitars are too loud in TEI...

I dunno. Just speculation. I'm sure I'll love the album

Personally, there have been some albums, (even I&W and Awake) where I thought that the keyboards were too loud. Or the guitars were too quiet (ADTOE).
Yes, it's a progressive band, but that doesn't mean that the keyboards have to be shoved in our face throughout the album.

But that statement doesn't mean that he'll just play the guitar the same way all throughout. DT's albums are generally very varied, unless they're going for a specific tone like ToT.

[Dellers]

Personally, there have been some albums, (even I&W and Awake) where I thought that the keyboards were too loud. Or the guitars were too quiet (ADTOE).

Your copy of ADTOE must be weird. The guitars are in no way quiet on my copy. They do lack some highs, but that's a different story.

[mikeyd23]

Personally, there have been some albums, (even I&W and Awake) where I thought that the keyboards were too loud. Or the guitars were too quiet (ADTOE).

Your copy of ADTOE must be weird. The guitars are in no way quiet on my copy. They do lack some highs, but that's a different story.

Yeah I agree, guitars are loud enough on ADToE. At points, some of the percussive, right hand action that JP puts down completely covers up the drums...

[The Boomr]

I agree, but it's like he was ignoring the fact that Dream Theater has a huge progressive side...in which guitar does not in any way Have to be the featured instrument. His statements just seem like they could come off as maybe supporting the fact that many people think the guitars are too loud in TEI...

I dunno. Just speculation. I'm sure I'll love the album

Personally, there have been some albums, (even I&W and Awake) where I thought that the keyboards were too loud. Or the guitars were too quiet (ADTOE).
Yes, it's a progressive band, but that doesn't mean that the keyboards have to be shoved in our face throughout the album.

But that statement doesn't mean that he'll just play the guitar the same way all throughout. DT's albums are generally very varied, unless they're going for a specific tone like ToT.

Keyboards? Too loud?? HOW DARE YOU?! 

Haha, jk. Sorta. But really though, the keyboards are way too quiet on TEI aside from that first entrance of them right before the first verse.

[Onno]

I agree, but it's like he was ignoring the fact that Dream Theater has a huge progressive side...in which guitar does not in any way Have to be the featured instrument. His statements just seem like they could come off as maybe supporting the fact that many people think the guitars are too loud in TEI...

I dunno. Just speculation. I'm sure I'll love the album

Personally, there have been some albums, (even I&W and Awake) where I thought that the keyboards were too loud. Or the guitars were too quiet (ADTOE).
Yes, it's a progressive band, but that doesn't mean that the keyboards have to be shoved in our face throughout the album.

But that statement doesn't mean that he'll just play the guitar the same way all throughout. DT's albums are generally very varied, unless they're going for a specific tone like ToT.

Keyboards? Too loud?? HOW DARE YOU?! 

Haha, jk. Sorta. But really though, the keyboards are way too quiet on TEI aside from that first entrance of them right before the first verse.

The keyboards were way too quiet on BC&SL as well. I think that on TEI they're just doubling the guitar for the most part, which is why they are difficult to hear.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Well, JP pretty much told us what the opening/closing songs are gonna be on this tour 

[mikeyd23]

The keyboards were way too quiet on BC&SL as well. I think that on TEI they're just doubling the guitar for the most part, which is why they are difficult to hear.

On TEI, I would say at times, the keys could be a little louder, but overall they are mixed pretty well for me. 

I can hear the snarling pig sound in the intro, the string sounds before JLB comes in on the first verse sound nice and full to me, he could maybe be a little louder on the chorus, but really he is just providing atmosphere there.  Right after the first chorus I like the level he is at with the patch that he is using there, any louder and it wouldn't sound right.  He is sitting in a pretty nice place in the mix during the vocal section of the bridge, he could maybe be bumped up a little here, then he does some unison work with JP that I can hear just fine and his solo sounds about right as well.

Like I said, overall there are maybe a few spots that his volume could be turned up a little, but I think he is sitting in a pretty good place in the mix.  It is a heavier metal style DT song, the reality is that in these sorts of songs, there will probably be a little less keyboard in the mix.  Hopefully the band will make up for that and on the ballads and proggy songs on the new album, the keys will get a little boost.

[The Boomr]

I can see the viewpoint that in this particular song, he'll be lower in the mix. However, doesn't anyone else think that he's way too low during his actual solo? That is honestly the only part of the song where the volume of the guitar truly bothers me. It is actually difficult to not be completely distracted by JP's wah-ing. I agree it's cool, but it drowns out JR...

[mikeyd23]

I can see the viewpoint that in this particular song, he'll be lower in the mix. However, doesn't anyone else think that he's way too low during his actual solo? That is honestly the only part of the song where the volume of the guitar truly bothers me. It is actually difficult to not be completely distracted by JP's wah-ing. I agree it's cool, but it drowns out JR...

The guitar wah part under the solo is great, you're right, the keys need to be a touch louder there to make them pop out over top the band. But they aren't SO low in the mix there that it bothers me to listen to it.

[The Boomr]

The guitar wah part under the solo is great, you're right, the keys need to be a touch louder there to make them pop out over top the band. But they aren't SO low in the mix there that it bothers me to listen to it.

I'm probably subconsciously inflating the size of the issue haha  I will need to give the song more listens on high (ish) quality speakers/headphones, not just my car. And also, I need to listen more just to listen, as opposed to multitasking while listening.

[liran95]

If "Illumination Theory" is IT, so "Elimination Theory" is...

[RoDT]

If "Illumination Theory" is IT, so "Elimination Theory" is...

He wants to go HOME 

[Ben_Jamin]

Nope, they're fine in the mix. His solo doesn't need to be louder because it'll be too distracting from the rest of the backing instruments.

[The Boomr]

Nope, they're fine in the mix. His solo doesn't need to be louder because it'll be too distracting from the rest of the backing instruments.

I humbly (mostly) disagree. I just listened again. It is difficult to actually hear the individual notes JR is playing. And no, not because he's going so fast I can't tell. He's not actually doing ridiculous 32nd notes the whole time in this solo. I honestly can't distinguish notes in parts of the solo specifically because of JP's wah.

The whole point of a solo is to be the dominating voice. You should have your attention drawn to a solo voice much more so than the rest of the band, because its purpose is to stick out from the sound. Hence the term "solo."

[mocool13]

I agree with Jordan's solo assessment.

Listen to JP's solo and compare it to JR's solo and I dare you to tell me they're both around the same sound level. JP's solo is way louder (appropriately), while JR is barely heard in his solo.

For the rest of the track he's mixed relatively fine considering this is a heavy track.

[TheGreatPretender]

Yeah I agree, guitars are loud enough on ADToE. At points, some of the percussive, right hand action that JP puts down completely covers up the drums...

And I felt like some of the big, epic keyboard sounds that JR put down had completely covered up the guitars.
But yes, the drums also needed to be louder.

[ariich]

Why is everyone calling JR's bit a solo, it's just a lead line isn't it? Part of the instrumental, and something that he'll replicate exactly live, rather than his solos which he tends to improvise and play around with at gigs.

[Dellers]

I never really thought of it as a solo, considering that the guitars are much more up front. A solo to me has to stand out a bit.