Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[The Boomr]

I mean...sure, most DT fans would've loved to be at that listening party, but having brought us into a listening party wouldn't make us more likely to buy the album....we're already going to buy it. He is confused.

[MoraWintersoul]

"They could sell their records in millions if they wouldn't let the mainstream in and just turned more to their existing fans" is what I'm hearing?  It's true no one they asked to attend the listening party wouldn't say anything bad about the record, but I'm also pretty sure every one of those journalistic blogs/zines/other outlets they sent invitations to have DT fans in their ranks and that those are the people that went. Fans. Working in the industry doesn't make 'em any less than that.

[robwebster]

Come on, he makes some valid points.

He really, really doesn't.

Is this the same blogger who mouthed off at Rena Petrucci a couple of months ago? It looks like the same blog layout, but then, that's the default Wordpress layout.

ETA: Just checked - yes, it is. Why are we giving this the oxygen of publicity? We've got enough grim internet nerds with axes to grind right here!

[The Boomr]

Come on, he makes some valid points.

Most of it doesn't seem very valid, to me. For example:

Has anyone purchased a Dream Theater album because Billboard Magazine rated it highly or poorly or from a Village Voice review? The answer would be a definite NO. Why? Dream Theater built their career outside of the mainstream.

Going by that logic, inviting their real fans to a listening party would have....absolutely zero effect. Just like it wasn't needed in the first place to earn those fans. One point of this listening party is in fact to gain more mainstream attention, and what's wrong with that? Bands don't want to sit around with the same level of recognition and stagnate there, they want to continue moving up in the world and gaining more fans. You can't really gain more fans by appealing to your already existing fans.

[mikeyd23]

I mean...sure, most DT fans would've loved to be at that listening party, but having brought us into a listening party wouldn't make us more likely to buy the album....we're already going to buy it. He is confused.

Sure I would have loved to be there! But like you said I'll buy the record anyway.  Also, the comparison he makes to Metallica filling an arena for their Black Album listening party is a little off base for this case seeing how I don't think DT could financially swing that move!

Fans. Working in the industry doesn't make 'em any less than that.

Exactly this as well... Just because they work in the industry doesn't make them not fans of the band.  They are still fans even though they happen to have a particular job!

[theseoafs]

Is this the same blogger who mouthed off at Rena Petrucci a couple of months ago? It looks like the same blog layout, but then, that's the default Wordpress layout.

ETA: Just checked - yes, it is. Why are we giving this the oxygen of publicity? We've got enough grim internet nerds with axes to grind right here!

Sorry to give this more oxygen, but what's that about mouthing off at Rena?

[sueño]

Fans. Working in the industry doesn't make 'em any less than that.

Exactly this as well... Just because they work in the industry doesn't make them not fans of the band.  They are still fans even though they happen to have a particular job!

Honestly, I'd think someone working in the music industry is even MORE of a "general music fan" than most people simply because this is the profession they've chosen.  Hard to believe a non-music fan would be there -- even if DT isn't what they live and breathe for..

[Meatrose]

Yeah, he's not making any sense at all. The best way to market the album is to invite existing fans that are already passionate enough to even attend something like this instead of inviting people from the industry? Right. He should also argue that advanced copies should go out to fans instead of reviewers...

[robwebster]

Is this the same blogger who mouthed off at Rena Petrucci a couple of months ago? It looks like the same blog layout, but then, that's the default Wordpress layout.

ETA: Just checked - yes, it is. Why are we giving this the oxygen of publicity? We've got enough grim internet nerds with axes to grind right here!

Sorry to give this more oxygen, but what's that about mouthing off at Rena?

It wasn't! I made a mistake. He was mouthing off about John.

https://destroyerofharmony.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/dream-theater-why-the-silence-on-the-live-at-luna-park-dvd-release/

"All of these projects where co-ordinated and overseen by Mike Portnoy.
"Now that he has gone, we don’t have nothing. No DVD was released after the Black Clouds tour and no Ytse Jam recordings. At the moment it looks like nothing will be released after the recent tour.
"Someone in the band needs to take on Mike Portnoy’s work ethic.
"I wonder how Dream Theater would have sounded today, if John Petrucci left instead of Mike Portnoy back in 2010."

Someone, probably Rena, responded with the name "Rena (aka Yoko)," so I expanded that as being more two-sided in my head - but, in fairness, he did immediately apologise to the commenter, so I've completely misremembered in my haste. Sorry for the confusion theseoafs, and further apologies to the anonymous grouchy blogger with terrible grammar!

[noxon]

There is one point that could be made about letting fans participate in a listening party, and that is the word of mouth of how well the band treats their fans. I know for a fact that a lot of people still are hardcore fans and support and respect the band -even though- they haven't really enjoyed their latest output, and it's purely because of how the band has treated them in the past. Dream Theater has always been very well aware of the fact that the best way to build a -steady- following is by being respectful towards the fans, and giving them a lot without ever really having to.

But the way he's wording his statement shows a certain lack of maturity and egoism that's quite offputting, so any valid point he may have had falls flat.

[robwebster]

There is one point that could be made about letting fans participate in a listening party, and that is the word of mouth of how well the band treats their fans. I know for a fact that a lot of people still are hardcore fans and support and respect the band -even though- they haven't really enjoyed their latest output, and it's purely because of how the band has treated them in the past. Dream Theater has always been very well aware of the fact that the best way to build a -steady- following is by being respectful towards the fans, and giving them a lot without ever really having to.

But the way he's wording his statement shows a certain lack of maturity and egoism that's quite offputting, so any valid point he may have had falls flat.

Word. It's the difference between, "Hey, wouldn't this be cool?" and "How dare you treat me like this, I deserve better than this swill you serve me, I am going to write an article and post it to THE INTERNET!"

There's an interesting argument to be constructed and potentially an interesting discussion to be had, but he hasn't constructed it, and he's quite clearly only interested in hectoring. It's an impotent yawn of a non-story.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Never Enough

[lyfeternl]

Is this the same blogger who mouthed off at Rena Petrucci a couple of months ago? It looks like the same blog layout, but then, that's the default Wordpress layout.

ETA: Just checked - yes, it is. Why are we giving this the oxygen of publicity? We've got enough grim internet nerds with axes to grind right here!

Sorry to give this more oxygen, but what's that about mouthing off at Rena?

It wasn't! I made a mistake. He was mouthing off about John.

https://destroyerofharmony.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/dream-theater-why-the-silence-on-the-live-at-luna-park-dvd-release/

"All of these projects where co-ordinated and overseen by Mike Portnoy.
"Now that he has gone, we don't have nothing. No DVD was released after the Black Clouds tour and no Ytse Jam recordings. At the moment it looks like nothing will be released after the recent tour.
"Someone in the band needs to take on Mike Portnoy's work ethic.
"I wonder how Dream Theater would have sounded today, if John Petrucci left instead of Mike Portnoy back in 2010."

Someone, probably Rena, responded with the name "Rena (aka Yoko)," so I expanded that as being more two-sided in my head - but, in fairness, he did immediately apologise to the commenter, so I've completely misremembered in my haste. Sorry for the confusion theseoafs, and further apologies to the anonymous grouchy blogger with terrible grammar!

This completely invalidates any point the blogger was trying to make

[Victor Alexandrov]

Left him a nice comment.

[bosk1]

hectoring

Wait...what?  Did you just make that word up? 

[MoraWintersoul]

There is one point that could be made about letting fans participate in a listening party, and that is the word of mouth of how well the band treats their fans. I know for a fact that a lot of people still are hardcore fans and support and respect the band -even though- they haven't really enjoyed their latest output, and it's purely because of how the band has treated them in the past. Dream Theater has always been very well aware of the fact that the best way to build a -steady- following is by being respectful towards the fans, and giving them a lot without ever really having to.

But the way he's wording his statement shows a certain lack of maturity and egoism that's quite offputting, so any valid point he may have had falls flat.

Yup, me.

Word. It's the difference between, "Hey, wouldn't this be cool?" and "How dare you treat me like this, I deserve better than this swill you serve me, I am going to write an article and post it to THE INTERNET!"

Yeah. The dude probably had no ill intention and I'm terribly sorry to be criticizing him like this, but this article is literally the worst thought process and writing process that could have originated from his legitimately okay idea.

[Thematt202]

Sorry but some of those points are valid.  I'm no Portnoy fanboy (much prefer Mangini on every level), but the level of interaction between the band and the fans has dropped to almost nothing.  Jordan tweets several times a day but never about DT or the new album.   We're less than two months away from a major new album release but you'd never guess it from the level of publicity so far.

Just my opinion guys. 

[Joshin U]

hectoring

Wait...what?  Did you just make that word up? 

hec·tor  (hktr)
n.
A bully.
v. hec·tored, hec·tor·ing, hec·tors
v.tr.
To intimidate or dominate in a blustering way.
v.intr.
To behave like a bully; swagger.

The more you know 

[The Boomr]

Sorry but some of those points are valid.  I'm no Portnoy fanboy (much prefer Mangini on every level), but the level of interaction between the band and the fans has dropped to almost nothing.  Jordan tweets several times a day but never about DT or the new album.   We're less than two months away from a major new album release but you'd never guess it from the level of publicity so far.

Just my opinion guys. 

Fair enough, but saying you wish there was more publicity and saying anything like what he said are two completely different things, haha.

[The Boomr]

hectoring

Wait...what?  Did you just make that word up? 

hec·tor  (hktr)
n.
A bully.
v. hec·tored, hec·tor·ing, hec·tors
v.tr.
To intimidate or dominate in a blustering way.
v.intr.
To behave like a bully; swagger.

The more you know 

[robwebster]

hectoring

Wait...what?  Did you just make that word up? 

I wish!

verb (used with object) 
4.
( lowercase ) to treat with insolence; bully; torment: The teacher hectored his students incessantly.

It's a brilliant word, though. One of my special favourites. q:

It wasn't! I made a mistake. He was mouthing off about John.

https://destroyerofharmony.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/dream-theater-why-the-silence-on-the-live-at-luna-park-dvd-release/

"All of these projects where co-ordinated and overseen by Mike Portnoy.
"Now that he has gone, we don’t have nothing. No DVD was released after the Black Clouds tour and no Ytse Jam recordings. At the moment it looks like nothing will be released after the recent tour.
"Someone in the band needs to take on Mike Portnoy’s work ethic.
"I wonder how Dream Theater would have sounded today, if John Petrucci left instead of Mike Portnoy back in 2010."

Someone, probably Rena, responded with the name "Rena (aka Yoko)," so I expanded that as being more two-sided in my head - but, in fairness, he did immediately apologise to the commenter, so I've completely misremembered in my haste. Sorry for the confusion theseoafs, and further apologies to the anonymous grouchy blogger with terrible grammar!

This completely invalidates any point the blogger was trying to make

Oh, yeah. Double-negatives, an inability to differentiate between simple homophones - don't get me wrong, it's a terrible bit of writing for plenty of reasons beyond the fairly nasty and self-centred message it's conveying! Just... why reach past the nastiness?

I will admit a degree of hypocrisy in as much as I'm completely going to town on that blog right now, with a little more venom than is possibly warranted. But he put himself on a podium, and increased demands on my time have left me - to my regret - less tolerant of those who waste it. I'm sure he'd be able to find other stuff we'd agree on, but as far as DT goes, I think, if the author of that blog is going to elect himself as some kind of writer, he needs to spend a bit more time thinking about his opinions before he belches them all over the internet.

[The Boomr]

It wasn't! I made a mistake. He was mouthing off about John.

https://destroyerofharmony.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/dream-theater-why-the-silence-on-the-live-at-luna-park-dvd-release/

"All of these projects where co-ordinated and overseen by Mike Portnoy.
"Now that he has gone, we don't have nothing. No DVD was released after the Black Clouds tour and no Ytse Jam recordings. At the moment it looks like nothing will be released after the recent tour.
"Someone in the band needs to take on Mike Portnoy's work ethic.
"I wonder how Dream Theater would have sounded today, if John Petrucci left instead of Mike Portnoy back in 2010."

Someone, probably Rena, responded with the name "Rena (aka Yoko)," so I expanded that as being more two-sided in my head - but, in fairness, he did immediately apologise to the commenter, so I've completely misremembered in my haste. Sorry for the confusion theseoafs, and further apologies to the anonymous grouchy blogger with terrible grammar!

But...but I don't understand. Why is he so angry if "we don't have nothing"?? 

[The Boomr]

Oh, yeah. Double-negatives, an inability to differentiate between simple homophones - don't get me wrong, it's a terrible bit of writing for plenty of reasons beyond the fairly nasty and self-centred message it's conveying! Just... why reach past the nastiness?

I will admit a degree of hypocrisy in as much as I'm completely going to town on that blog right now, with a little more venom than is possibly warranted. But he put himself on a podium, and increased demands on my time have left me - to my regret - less tolerant of those who waste it. I'm sure he'd be able to find other stuff we'd agree on, but as far as DT goes, I think, if the author of that blog is going to elect himself as some kind of writer, he needs to spend a bit more time thinking about his opinions before he belches them all over the internet.

Oh dear, it seems I've unleashed the wrath and fury of DTF on this guy.....

[lyfeternl]

Sorry but some of those points are valid.  I'm no Portnoy fanboy (much prefer Mangini on every level), but the level of interaction between the band and the fans has dropped to almost nothing.  Jordan tweets several times a day but never about DT or the new album.   We're less than two months away from a major new album release but you'd never guess it from the level of publicity so far.

Just my opinion guys. 

Okay guys/girls, let's be real: Yes, MP was the frontrunner of the band.

But MP is gone and that leaves the rest of the band (mostly JP) to pick up that role and run with it. MP had "25 years" of practice, trial and error, etc. I think it is foolish to expect a similar output from JP on a fan-base interaction level right out of the gate.

I know this is DTF and what I am about to say goes against the grain and is contradictory to this entire thread and general attitude of most members, but how about we practice some...
PATIENCE

My opinion is that DT is doing a great job considering the events that have taken place in the past few years and, in my mind, things can only get even better going forward.

[bosk1]

Sorry but some of those points are valid.  I'm no Portnoy fanboy (much prefer Mangini on every level), but the level of interaction between the band and the fans has dropped to almost nothing.  Jordan tweets several times a day but never about DT or the new album.   We're less than two months away from a major new album release but you'd never guess it from the level of publicity so far.

Just my opinion guys. 

That's fine.  But your opinion ignores all the interaction the band has had and is continuing to have.  But, yes, you are welcome to your opinion.

[commanderbob]

I don't mean to hector the blogger guy, but we do get to go to huge listening parties.

They're called CONCERTS!

[JayOctavarium]

I don't mean to hector the blogger guy, but we do get to go to huge listening parties.

They're called CONCERTS!

[bosk1]

Y'all need to stop hectoring each other in this thread.

[Zydar]

Who's this Hector guy you're talking about?

[jonny108]

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

 

[Zydar]

[RoDT]

At this point, I feel the band is doing enough to keep in contact with the fans. Of course, many people got used to the level of contact that MP practiced during his DT years. And now (seems like we keep going back to this) these people feel entitled to all sorts of information of their everyday's life.

In retrospective: Keep giving us great music, and I'll stay happy lol.

[Joshin U]

I was literally posting that picture right when you did. Damn, ninja'd.

[wasteland]

Oh, yeah. Double-negatives, an inability to differentiate between simple homophones - don't get me wrong, it's a terrible bit of writing for plenty of reasons beyond the fairly nasty and self-centred message it's conveying! Just... why reach past the nastiness?

I will admit a degree of hypocrisy in as much as I'm completely going to town on that blog right now, with a little more venom than is possibly warranted. But he put himself on a podium, and increased demands on my time have left me - to my regret - less tolerant of those who waste it. I'm sure he'd be able to find other stuff we'd agree on, but as far as DT goes, I think, if the author of that blog is going to elect himself as some kind of writer, he needs to spend a bit more time thinking about his opinions before he belches them all over the internet.

Oh dear, it seems I've unleashed the wrath and fury of DTF on this guy.....

You have done this guy a far worse service: you have unleashed ROBWEBSTER on him. 

@Hector: I've discovered a new verb today. Thanks to over the dtf for the English Class.