Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[tiagodon]

Is it about Aids? How do you know? I just read it again and I can't tell...

[theseoafs]

Yes, it is well-known that LTL is about AIDS.

[tiagodon]

I didn't know that. In that case, the lyrics makes more sense to me now...
Thanks!

[Moor]

Just my opinion, i'm ok if you have a different one, i enjoy open conversations as well.

I suggest you go through the LTL lyrics again and read them as a testimony from someone having AIDS and learning to live with his disease; I am sure your verdict will change to the extent of requiring parental advisory 

Based on your opinion, do you think you quoted the right one? 

Sorry, wrong quote 

[JPX]

I've always thought that LTL lyrics were good (being part of amazing music always helps ). They are typical JM and some lines are quite poignant.

As a counter, I would like to present lyrics that also address an illness, but do so in a much more successful manner (imo).

This is not only an example of lyrics that provoke the listener, it also uses clever word play, and thru the delivery it drives home the raw emotion perfectly to me. This is where I think DT could learn a lot because I'm sure they are capable as humans and musicians of doing this, they just don't for whatever reason.

Protest the Hero - Tandem

Everyone knows that Cancer
Takes bites of every family
And it eats up families whole

Dance around the issue
Take issue with the answers provided
The past few years radiate with treatment
But to every day she'll put her cap on and greet them
She's got demons but you'll never meet them
Yeah we hope one day that she can finally beat them all

She laughs for us
She laughs so we don't worry
She smiles through the pain
And keeps the details blurry

My intentions are not to expose
The depths of her trouble aren't mine to disclose
But like evening rain on the petal of a rose
It drips down to the earth and begins to compose

And if there's one thing that remains
So crystal clear to us
It's that the wandering hands of the gods
Are so goddamn mysterious

Like there could be a justification
For the lives it takes and the lives that it's taken

This isn't a eulogy
Or a requiem
Just some words I've sketched out
Cause I haven't said them
This isn't about her father or brother
Just a few simple words so she knows that I love her
And tragedy will never disaffect her
I hope she knows how much I respect her

[tiagodon]

JPX, nice lyrics! Loved it!
It goes straight to the point!

[matte.braso]

Jordan's twitter profile has been hacked....is someone trying to steal him new album stuff from his IPad?

[Moor]

Jordan's twitter profile has been hacked....is someone trying to steal him new album stuff from his IPad?

They also hijacked his car after he posted the IT pic 

[serrano]

The muscle build up tweet would be more likely to be real if it came from JP 

[wolven74]

Yes, it is well-known that LTL is about AIDS.

I never imagined it was about AIDS in particular. I always thought it was broader than that. About anyone dealing with discrimination, be it race/gender/sexual orientation/disability or personal demons. I've always read them as being about finding out who you are on your own terms.

The AIDS thing works just as well.

LTL is one of JMs best lyrical contributions to DT to date.

I hope he can do something equally as great on DT12

[425]

I see Learning to Live as inspired by the AIDS epidemic but not necessarily about it. There are some lines that refer indirectly to it but could really refer to anything that prevents someone from living "normally" and blending in to society:

"Once again we dance in the crowd
At times a step away
From a common fear that's all spread out
It won't listen to what you say
Once you're touched you stand alone
To face the bitter fight
Once I reached for love
And now I reached for life"

I actually think the fact that the opening line is from Atlas Shrugged could suggest that it is also partially inspired by Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism. As a student of that philosophy, I can definitely say that the overall message of trying to "live life like some people never will" and finding "kindness, beauty and truth" are definitely common themes of Rand's fiction and that the final line is a perfect description of the Objectivist metaphysics.

"Through nature's inflexible grace
I'm learning to live"

Because Objectivism holds that reality is absolute and cannot be changed by whim ("inflexible") but that humanity is able to understand it and thrive in it through use of reason ("I'm learning to live"); that the universe is not hostile to mankind, rather it is benevolent ("grace").

So, yes, Myung has stated that it was inspired by the AIDS epidemic, but I think his lyrics are broad enough to be read without reference to AIDS as well. The broad theme, without reference to particulars, is definitely encompassed by the title. The song is about learning to live.

[The Stray Seed]

I see learning to live [...] The song is about learning to live.

Thanks for your post, it was a really interesting read.

[Hanz Gruber]

I see Learning to Live as inspired by the AIDS epidemic but not necessarily about it. There are some lines that refer indirectly to it but could really refer to anything that prevents someone from living "normally" and blending in to society:

"Once again we dance in the crowd
At times a step away
From a common fear that's all spread out
It won't listen to what you say
Once you're touched you stand alone
To face the bitter fight
Once I reached for love
And now I reached for life"

I actually think the fact that the opening line is from Atlas Shrugged could suggest that it is also partially inspired by Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism. As a student of that philosophy, I can definitely say that the overall message of trying to "live life like some people never will" and finding "kindness, beauty and truth" are definitely common themes of Rand's fiction and that the final line is a perfect description of the Objectivist metaphysics.

"Through nature's inflexible grace
I'm learning to live"

Because Objectivism holds that reality is absolute and cannot be changed by whim ("inflexible") but that humanity is able to understand it and thrive in it through use of reason ("I'm learning to live"); that the universe is not hostile to mankind, rather it is benevolent ("grace").

So, yes, Myung has stated that it was inspired by the AIDS epidemic, but I think his lyrics are broad enough to be read without reference to AIDS as well. The broad theme, without reference to particulars, is definitely encompassed by the title. The song is about learning to live.

No offense to the poster that claimed that LTL lyrics were something a 9 year old would write.......but that is crazy.  I assumed that he was joking but I guess not?

The lyrics are pretty damn solid.  Even if you don't like them you should recognize quality and that a 9 year old couldn't write them.

[tiagodon]

I'm aware of Rand's philosophy and impressed by the fact you brought it up.
I really don't see it in LTL, maybe in some parts, but your point of view is quite interesting...

[?]

I see Learning to Live as inspired by the AIDS epidemic but not necessarily about it. There are some lines that refer indirectly to it but could really refer to anything that prevents someone from living "normally" and blending in to society:

*snip*

So, yes, Myung has stated that it was inspired by the AIDS epidemic, but I think his lyrics are broad enough to be read without reference to AIDS as well. The broad theme, without reference to particulars, is definitely encompassed by the title. The song is about learning to live.

This is how I've always seen those lyrics, thanks for the great post!

[425]

I'd like to say that that was post #100, but I'm pretty sure that #100 was a joke about Twitter spam. Anyway, thanks for the compliments on my 99th post!

[aprilethereal]

So, what about the new DT album?

[?]

I was thinking about this earlier today: maybe we'll get the final studio video next week and a new single the week after that?

[aprilethereal]

I was hoping for a single next week

[?]

I'm just guessing, nothing is set in stone!

[Thematt202]

How do we know that part 3 is the final part?

[atmyne]

I was hoping for a single next week

WAS hoping? never lose hope for a single, brother

[Labrie1984]

There will be an announcement of the announcement of the single at the end of In Studio part 10 XD

[mikaelslover]

I agree 100%, Ninja! I don't like the lyrics to Learning to Live either. Sounds like a 9-year-old wrote that.

Tiagodon, I believe you have already been spoken to about some of your posts, even though you have not received a formal warning before this.  But these kinds of posts are not appropriate.

12. Insults or senseless bashing of the current or former band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated.  Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc.

There is nothing constructive at all about the way you worded your post.  Please familiarize yourself with the forum rules if you have not done so already.

That seems excessive. apparently criticism = bashing now

thanks for the update Mike Portnoy

[theseoafs]

 

"Learning to Live sounds like it was written by a 9-year-old" is not constructive criticism.

[Sycsa]

"Learning to Live sounds like it was written by a 9-year-old" is not constructive criticism.

The wording is a bit strong, but if he had said that he finds the lyrics childish/infantile, it'd be fine (even though I disagree with his opinion).

[robwebster]

I agree 100%, Ninja! I don't like the lyrics to Learning to Live either. Sounds like a 9-year-old wrote that.

Tiagodon, I believe you have already been spoken to about some of your posts, even though you have not received a formal warning before this.  But these kinds of posts are not appropriate.

12. Insults or senseless bashing of the current or former band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated.  Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc.

There is nothing constructive at all about the way you worded your post.  Please familiarize yourself with the forum rules if you have not done so already.

That seems excessive. apparently criticism = bashing now

thanks for the update Mike Portnoy

Rule of thumb: If a sentence retains its meaning when you substitute your criticism with the word "doody-head" (or an appropriate variation thereupon) it is probably not constructive.

For example - "I don't like the lyrics to Learning to Live either. Sounds like a doody-head wrote that."

[aprilethereal]

I was hoping for a single next week

WAS hoping? never lose hope for a single, brother

I'm just guessing, nothing is set in stone!

Fucking English grammar, guys

[tiagodon]

Wrong, Robwebster!
What I meant was: the lyrics are vague and use commonplace ideas, just like the structure of a text written by a kid. Childish lyrics. Nothing to do with doody-head.. Bad move!
If that is bashing... well...

Anyway, I changed my mind about the lyrics, after the lectures here...

[Shadow2222]

Wrong, Robwebster!
What I meant was: the lyrics are vague and use commonplace ideas, just like the structure of a text written by a kid. Childish lyrics. Nothing to do with doody-head.. Bad move!
If that is bashing... well...

Anyway, I changed my mind about the lyrics, after the lectures here...

Why didn't you simply explain that before resorting to what is easily seen as bashing?

That's like if I said, "Wow, this cheeseburger looks like a mentally handicapped person made it," and I simply mean, "Wow, they forgot the cheese on my burger, someone made a mistake."

I mean the same thing both times, but the first one is much more insulting.

[wolven74]

What the actual hell, kids? Album thread becomes Lyric Pissing Contest? I thought this was about the new Dream Theater record and it's track list?

How bout that new album coming SOON eh?

Just sayin...

[Sycsa]

Wrong, Robwebster!
What I meant was: the lyrics are vague and use commonplace ideas, just like the structure of a text written by a kid. Childish lyrics. Nothing to do with doody-head.. Bad move!
If that is bashing... well...

Anyway, I changed my mind about the lyrics, after the lectures here...

Why didn't you simply explain that before resorting to what is easily seen as bashing?

That's like if I said, "Wow, this cheeseburger looks like a mentally handicapped person made it," and I simply mean, "Wow, they forgot the cheese on my burger, someone made a mistake."

I mean the same thing both times, but the first one is much more insulting.

This analogy, as well as the outrage is the textbook definition of blowing things out of proportion. My 2¢.

thanks for the update Mike Portnoy

That infamous TBOT thread did actually come to mind for a second. 

[showdonttell]

I see Learning to Live as inspired by the AIDS epidemic but not necessarily about it. There are some lines that refer indirectly to it but could really refer to anything that prevents someone from living "normally" and blending in to society:

"Once again we dance in the crowd
At times a step away
From a common fear that's all spread out
It won't listen to what you say
Once you're touched you stand alone
To face the bitter fight
Once I reached for love
And now I reached for life"

I actually think the fact that the opening line is from Atlas Shrugged could suggest that it is also partially inspired by Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism. As a student of that philosophy, I can definitely say that the overall message of trying to "live life like some people never will" and finding "kindness, beauty and truth" are definitely common themes of Rand's fiction and that the final line is a perfect description of the Objectivist metaphysics.

"Through nature's inflexible grace
I'm learning to live"

Because Objectivism holds that reality is absolute and cannot be changed by whim ("inflexible") but that humanity is able to understand it and thrive in it through use of reason ("I'm learning to live"); that the universe is not hostile to mankind, rather it is benevolent ("grace").

So, yes, Myung has stated that it was inspired by the AIDS epidemic, but I think his lyrics are broad enough to be read without reference to AIDS as well. The broad theme, without reference to particulars, is definitely encompassed by the title. The song is about learning to live.

Very interesting take on it. I love when peeps here offer up intelligent discussions like this. There is something really poetic about the lyrics to LTL, and it seems to just flow with a genuine passion.

[bosk1]

That seems excessive. apparently criticism = bashing now

thanks for the update Mike Portnoy

Thanks for the modding advice.

First off, if you have questions about a modding decision, the proper way to address it is to send the mods a PM--not to further derail the thread by posting about the modding decision instead of the topic.  And to add to that, attacking me or the mod staff are only going to get you into trouble and aren't really going to help you in proving whatever you believe your point is.
Second, as explained above, criticism is permitted if it is constructive criticism.  As others have pointed out, there's nothign constructive whatsoever about referring to DT's music as the work of a 9-year-old, and frankly, I'm surprised that even needs an explanation. 

That said, the thread needs to get back on topic.

-MP
#yunolikemybloodspillonyourbrandnewfloor

What the actual hell, kids? Album thread becomes Lyric Pissing Contest? I thought this was about the new Dream Theater record and it's track list?

How bout that new album coming SOON eh?

Just sayin...

This.  Let's get the thread back on topic.

[eosforum]

I just hope they don't release more than one song before 24/09 (or 09/24 for our fellow 'muricans )