Awake is still better than every other Dream Theater record

[Lucien]

Agree with the above.  How anyone can say that this isn't up there with the best I don't know.  It's a masterpiece.

It's also, imho, their first album without a weak song.  This is coming from a fan whose first album cycle was SFAM, by the way.

THIS IS WHY I LOVE DT12. Just like many Rush albums (Hemispheres, Permanent Waves, Power Windows, Clockwork Angels...), Dream Theater has FINALLY released an album where I can listen ALL THE WAY THROUGH and not have barely any moments I dislike.

[aprilethereal]

Agree with the above.  How anyone can say that this isn't up there with the best I don't know.  It's a masterpiece.

It's also, imho, their first album without a weak song.  This is coming from a fan whose first album cycle was SFAM, by the way.

THIS IS WHY I LOVE DT12. Just like many Rush albums (Hemispheres, Permanent Waves, Power Windows, Clockwork Angels...), Dream Theater has FINALLY released an album where I can listen ALL THE WAY THROUGH and not have barely any moments I dislike.

I don't want to bash Rush or be an asshole or something, but if DT12 and a couple of albums by one other band (Rush) are the only albums you can listen to all the way through without disliking some songs/elements, you should probably broaden your music taste a bit, especially since I remember you posting somewhere that DT and Rush are pretty much the only bands you listen to. There are lots of awesome music out there that you're missing if you limit yourself to only two bands

[RaiseTheKnife]

Without needing to peruse the 13 prior pages of comments, I have concluded that the heading to this thread is correct.

[Ruba]

I think some people are looking at the older stuff through the old rose tinted glasses.  Whatever they release these days can never match up with the classics, regardless of their actual merits.

I don't think I do. I think Systematic Chaos is one of their best albums, is that new enough? If it didn't have Constant Motion, it'd be a serious contender for the best JR era album (it's SDOIT).

[wasteland]

I think some people are looking at the older stuff through the old rose tinted glasses.  Whatever they release these days can never match up with the classics, regardless of their actual merits.

Elements of this are scattered everywhere. Humanity has always regarded the past, near or far, as a golden age. Think of the Renaissence's attitude towards the Classic Antoquity, and then think of how The thinkers and writers of classic antiquity saw their age as a time of decay and loss of values compared to a prevalently invented Early Golden Age of civilization (an example of this is found in Virgil's work).

When it comes with Dream Theater it can't really be much different, even though I am genuinely genuinely that the classic era duo of albums is still unrivaled.

[BlobVanDam]

I think some people are looking at the older stuff through the old rose tinted glasses.  Whatever they release these days can never match up with the classics, regardless of their actual merits.

Elements of this are scattered everywhere. Humanity has always regarded the past, near or far, as a golden age. Think of the Renaissence's attitude towards the Classic Antoquity, and then think of how The thinkers and writers of classic antiquity saw their age as a time of decay and loss of values compared to a prevalently invented Early Golden Age of civilization (an example of this is found in Virgil's work).

When it comes with Dream Theater it can't really be much different, even though I am genuinely genuinely that the classic era duo of albums is still unrivaled.

Of course it's rivaled. It's far surpassed imo by the superior duo of SFAM/SDOIT.

[wasteland]

And it's the great debate all over again 

[BlobVanDam]

What if someone said problems lie ahead? They've uncovered something highly controversial........

[Polarbear]

For me Awake really is the overlooked gem of the DT discography, i cannot think of a finer progmetal statement than this album! I love I&W, SFAM and SDOIT as much as the next DT fan, but when im in the mood for some dream theater i always blast Awake through the speakers in my car.

Reasons why i love it so much:

1. The dark and gloomy atmosphere in the album works really well especially in the Voices and Scarred.
2. Easily the best JLB performance of any DT album.
3. No filler, not a single uninteresting moment.
4. Some of the most memorable melodies in DT music, especially everything in Lifting shadows of a dream

As i said the big 3 of DT albums (i&w,sfam,sdoit) is still fantastic, but Awake is just incredible

[theseoafs]

For me Awake really is the overlooked gem of the DT discography

It is not.  Awake is one of the most highly praised DT albums.

[Lucien]

Agree with the above.  How anyone can say that this isn't up there with the best I don't know.  It's a masterpiece.

It's also, imho, their first album without a weak song.  This is coming from a fan whose first album cycle was SFAM, by the way.

THIS IS WHY I LOVE DT12. Just like many Rush albums (Hemispheres, Permanent Waves, Power Windows, Clockwork Angels...), Dream Theater has FINALLY released an album where I can listen ALL THE WAY THROUGH and not have barely any moments I dislike.

I don't want to bash Rush or be an asshole or something, but if DT12 and a couple of albums by one other band (Rush) are the only albums you can listen to all the way through without disliking some songs/elements, you should probably broaden your music taste a bit, especially since I remember you posting somewhere that DT and Rush are pretty much the only bands you listen to. There are lots of awesome music out there that you're missing if you limit yourself to only two bands

I was using Rush as an example, though I do need to broaden my horizons. I grew up on Rush, and after my first concert, I became obsessed with them. I know every song by them (other than some of the stuff on their first album), know the year of every album released, could tell you what album any of the 165 Rush songs come from. Then, in spring of 2012, I heard Octavarium via last.fm, and became obsessed with Dream Theater, and started listening to other bits and pieces of prog. Of course, there was the classic rock and some hints of prog that were always on the radio, and I know popular songs by many other bands, but they're not really high in my list of things I actively listen to. There's other music I actively listen to, being video game music, and perhaps more obscure things that fit my taste.

[Outcrier]

I think some people are looking at the older stuff through the old rose tinted glasses.  Whatever they release these days can never match up with the classics, regardless of their actual merits.

Elements of this are scattered everywhere. Humanity has always regarded the past, near or far, as a golden age. Think of the Renaissence's attitude towards the Classic Antoquity, and then think of how The thinkers and writers of classic antiquity saw their age as a time of decay and loss of values compared to a prevalently invented Early Golden Age of civilization (an example of this is found in Virgil's work).

When it comes with Dream Theater it can't really be much different, even though I am genuinely genuinely that the classic era duo of albums is still unrivaled.

Of course it's rivaled. It's far surpassed imo by the superior duo of SFAM/SDOIT.

IAW/AW/SFAM/SDOIT quartet for best creativity and songwriting of DT.
Ah, ACOS and 2 or 3 songs of FII (To ,Lines, maybe Hell's Kitchen) too.

[namgalsipsclar]

Without needing to peruse the 13 prior pages of comments, I have concluded that the heading to this thread is correct.

[PROGdrummer]

DT12 crushes Awake

opinion

[Super Dude]

There's no way after four days you can say DT12 is better than Awake, which has endured as a DT classic for nearly two decades. One producer (whose name I've forgotten) wisely mentioned the "30 listen test," in which you think about whether a song will sound just as fresh the 30th time you've listened to it as the first time. Music we've listened to over and over again we will inevitably get used to - their staying power is a matter of how much the song continues to have to offer despite numerous listens, and some won't survive that test. Let's not start declaring DT12 songs the best ever made until we're a few more listens in, hm?

I think some people are looking at the older stuff through the old rose tinted glasses.  Whatever they release these days can never match up with the classics, regardless of their actual merits.

Elements of this are scattered everywhere. Humanity has always regarded the past, near or far, as a golden age. Think of the Renaissence's attitude towards the Classic Antoquity, and then think of how The thinkers and writers of classic antiquity saw their age as a time of decay and loss of values compared to a prevalently invented Early Golden Age of civilization (an example of this is found in Virgil's work).

When it comes with Dream Theater it can't really be much different, even though I am genuinely genuinely that the classic era duo of albums is still unrivaled.

Of course it's rivaled. It's far surpassed imo by the superior duo of SFAM/SDOIT.

IAW/AW/SFAM/SDOIT quartet for best creativity and songwriting of DT.
Ah, ACOS and 2 or 3 songs of FII (To ,Lines, maybe Hell's Kitchen) too.

Doin' it right.

[theseoafs]

There's no way after four days you can say DT12 is better than Awake, which has endured as a DT classic for nearly two decades. One producer (whose name I've forgotten) wisely mentioned the "30 listen test," in which you think about whether a song will sound just as fresh the 30th time you've listened to it as the first time. Music we've listened to over and over again we will inevitably get used to - their staying power is a matter of how much the song continues to have to offer despite numerous listens, and some won't survive that test. Let's not start declaring DT12 songs the best ever made until we're a few more listens in, hm?

Who declared DT12 the best songs DT ever made?  This fellow said that DT12 is better than Awake, and I agree, because I don't really think Awake is all that great.  I don't know whether it'll crack my top 3 or anything, but I can certainly tell you that DT12 is better than one of DT's weaker albums.

[Dark Castle]

I hate this notion that you can't tell good an album is just because it's only been out for a few days. Who the fuck made it law that you have to wait months/years to declare how good you find an album?!

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I hate this notion that you can't tell good an album is just because it's only been out for a few days. Who the fuck made it law that you have to wait months/years to declare how good you find an album?!

Well, you don't necessarily have to wait a long time. But most of the albums I consider my favorites are ones that took me a long time to appreciate. Especially for prog albums, which have a lot going on, it doesn't seem too unreasonable to wait a while before making such decisions.

[gmillerdrake]

I hate this notion that you can't tell good an album is just because it's only been out for a few days. Who the fuck made it law that you have to wait months/years to declare how good you find an album?!

It was a man named Pierre Sebastian. Born in 1927 in a village near Quito.....his mother found him as a child chiseling a single phrase into native alabaster stone. It read, " one must wait months.....in fact....years to gain proper insight to accurately deduce how good an album is."

It was inducted into Global Law in the first session of the United Nations.

[Super Dude]

There's no way after four days you can say DT12 is better than Awake, which has endured as a DT classic for nearly two decades. One producer (whose name I've forgotten) wisely mentioned the "30 listen test," in which you think about whether a song will sound just as fresh the 30th time you've listened to it as the first time. Music we've listened to over and over again we will inevitably get used to - their staying power is a matter of how much the song continues to have to offer despite numerous listens, and some won't survive that test. Let's not start declaring DT12 songs the best ever made until we're a few more listens in, hm?

Who declared DT12 the best songs DT ever made?  This fellow said that DT12 is better than Awake, and I agree, because I don't really think Awake is all that great.  I don't know whether it'll crack my top 3 or anything, but I can certainly tell you that DT12 is better than one of DT's weaker albums.

I was reading a post a couple pages back declaring DT12 the best album "ever," but the point still stands. And yes it is better, as long as that weaker album is WDADU or SC.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I hate this notion that you can't tell good an album is just because it's only been out for a few days. Who the fuck made it law that you have to wait months/years to declare how good you find an album?!

It was a man named Pierre Sebastian. Born in 1927 in a village near Quito.....his mother found him as a child chiseling a single phrase into native alabaster stone. It read, " one must wait months.....in fact....years to gain proper insight to accurately deduce how good an album is."

It was inducted into Global Law in the first session of the United Nations.

[Outcrier]

"Weak album because i don't like it very much"

[theseoafs]

I was reading a post a couple pages back declaring DT12 the best album "ever," but the point still stands. And yes it is better, as long as that weaker album is WDADU or SC.

Well, I'm not saying anything like that.  If I'm not mistaken, Obscure (or someone who writes for her website) called it "the best album of the century".  How could you even know that at this point?

But still, we're allowed to say that DT12 is better than WDADU and SC at this point in time, but not Awake?  What the fuck is the difference?

"Weak album because i don't like it very much"

Who is this referring to exactly?  People have opinions about music, and if they find that an album is weak, they're not going to like it very much.

[Daso]

I was reading a post a couple pages back declaring DT12 the best album "ever," but the point still stands. And yes it is better, as long as that weaker album is WDADU or SC.

Well, I'm not saying anything like that.  If I'm not mistaken, Obscure (or someone who writes for her website) called it "the best album of the century".  How could you even know that at this point?

But still, we're allowed to say that DT12 is better than WDADU and SC at this point in time, but not Awake?  What the fuck is the difference?

"Weak album because i don't like it very much"

Who is this referring to exactly?  People have opinions about music, and if they find that an album is weak, they're not going to like it very much.

I am quite sure the difference is that there is pretty much a general consensus that Awake is one of Dream Theater's best albums, whether some people dislike it or not. Perhaps majority doesn't necessarily mean that that's the way things are, but there's also a consensus (from what I have seen, of course) that WDADU and SC are their worst albums (I disagree with that because I like both of those, but that is from my personal standpoint), and at this point we can see that for most people DT12 might rank as a middle-tier DT album at least, which would make it better than WDADU and SC. That is, again, according to what most people agree on.

Of course, you're free to say if you like DT12 more or less than WDADU/SC/Awake at any point, but I think that what is going in here is based off what the general opinion regarding DT albums is, and the general opinion isn't something that a single person can change by saying, for example "No, I like SC more than Awake".

[theseoafs]

Why the hell does the general consensus even matter?  Nobody said anything about the general consensus on these albums.  I say that DT12 is better than Awake, WDADU, and SC.  The general consensus about these albums doesn't change a thing.

[rumborak]

Given my personal view that SDOIT was the last truly good DT album, I just realized that the album at this point cuts DT's career into two equal-sized parts (IAW: 1992 SDOIT: 2002 DT12: 2013). At this point I'm not really making all too much distinction anymore inside the first half; it's just the "good half".

[Daso]

Why the hell does the general consensus even matter?  Nobody said anything about the general consensus on these albums.  I say that DT12 is better than Awake, WDADU, and SC.  The general consensus about these albums doesn't change a thing.

What's with the attitude, man? Calm down. I agree with you (only thing is I still don't know if DT12 is better than Awake), what I'm trying to say is that, for the general opinion, since Awake is one of the best albums by the band while WDADU and SC are among the worst, it is possible to say that DT12 is better than WDADU and SC, but not better than awake. Again, this is concerning the general opinion. If you think it is better than WDADU, SC and Awake, it is perfectly fine.

[theseoafs]

Why the hell does the general consensus even matter?  Nobody said anything about the general consensus on these albums.  I say that DT12 is better than Awake, WDADU, and SC.  The general consensus about these albums doesn't change a thing.

What's with the attitude, man? Calm down. I agree with you (only thing is I still don't know if DT12 is better than Awake), what I'm trying to say is that, for the general opinion, since Awake is one of the best albums by the band while WDADU and SC are among the worst, it is possible to say that DT12 is better than WDADU and SC, but not better than awake. Again, this is concerning the general opinion. If you think it is better than WDADU, SC and Awake, it is perfectly fine.

You're confused about what the discussion is.  Super is saying that it's too early to say that DT12 is better than Awake since "Awake is a classic", but it's not too early to say it's better than SC and WDADU, which doesn't make any sense.

[Syzzle]

So I need at least 30 listens before I can say DT12 is better than Awake?



DT12 is better than Awake

[KevShmev]

The problem with saying things like, "DT12 is better than Awake," is it is in direct contrast to the factual statement in the title of this thread.

[Dark Castle]

So I need at least 30 listens before I can say DT12 is better than Awake?



DT12 is better than Awake

Served.jpeg

[jayvee3]

Why the hell does the general consensus even matter?  Nobody said anything about the general consensus on these albums.  I say that DT12 is better than Awake, WDADU, and SC.  The general consensus about these albums doesn't change a thing.

What's with the attitude, man? Calm down. I agree with you (only thing is I still don't know if DT12 is better than Awake), what I'm trying to say is that, for the general opinion, since Awake is one of the best albums by the band while WDADU and SC are among the worst, it is possible to say that DT12 is better than WDADU and SC, but not better than awake. Again, this is concerning the general opinion. If you think it is better than WDADU, SC and Awake, it is perfectly fine.

You're confused about what the discussion is.  Super is saying that it's too early to say that DT12 is better than Awake since "Awake is a classic", but it's not too early to say it's better than SC and WDADU, which doesn't make any sense.

Yea, I actually think you make a very good point. The other thing that always interests me with people who don't like an album as much, is how they can also then turn around and say 'it's one of the worst albums'. Some are happy to frown on someone for declaring it an immediate classic, but have no trouble themselves declaring it an early dud, after only listening for the same short time frame.. Surely their 'we'll see what happens in time' attitude, should work both ways..

[Outcrier]

I liked DT12, but even if i didn't liked it, i can certainly tell you that it doesn't even start to compare with Awake (in the songwriting "department"). 

See what i did there?

[54_diplomats]

Haven't listened to the album yet, or any of the songs for that matter (waiting for CD to arrive), but it's going to be REALLY tough for DT12 to knock Awake off as my favorite album. It does seem like a very strong album judging from the reactions, though it might be the new album smell. I can see it possibly getting into my top 5 if it's as consistently good as people say it is and MAYBE break into my untouchable top 4 (Awake, I&W, SFAM, SDOIT in that order). Awake took me the longest to get into actually and now it's my favorite lol.

[?]

I just listened to the album and the thread title is still correct.