Awake is still better than every other Dream Theater record

[?]

  But hey, they all bought into Kev's contrived sincerity, right? 

Riiiight.  I still love Raise the Knife, but some of the lyrics in that song are downright embarrassing, and that line is one of the worst offenders.

Word. I have no idea why MP had to write so overdramatically about a split in which there was no bad blood involved.

Awake is definitely the most atmospheric and least technical DT album, and I'd also say it's the darkest. All these 3 aspects are exactly the reason why I love it more than any other DT album.

Most atmospheric? Eh, I don't think so. It's sort of planar its atmosphere, not much variety. I'd say SFAM and SDOIT are more atmospheric. Least technical? Perhaps, I don't really know; I don't know how difficult the music is at all. Darkest? Again, I think other albums are darker or at least as dark.

Perhaps we ought to define our terms, though. To me, an album is "dark" if it evokes dark emotions within me (which is, of course, subjective to the listener). TOT and FII evoke those feelings much more for me.

Well, in my view atmosphere and lack of technicality go basically hand in hand. That's why I don't think albums like SFAM and TOT are even close to having as much atmosphere as Awake. The huge amount of shedding is also the factor that makes TOT less dark than Awake in my eyes - it gives me a kind of "hell yeah, let's rock!" vibe instead of the more serious and introspective approach of Awake. However, that doesn't make TOT a bad album; you just can't put it on the same line with Awake when talking about darkness and depth.

I agree that Six Degrees is one of the most atmospheric DT albums, I really like the mood of that record. And like you, I find FII dark, which is probably due to the smaller amount of technicality like in Awake's case. However, I still think Awake takes the #1 spot as the darkest and most atmospheric (and the best!) DT album: it's just the combination of everything: not only the music itself, but the production, the lyrics and the artwork, even the circumstances that surrounded the recording process all add to the unique feel of the album and make the overall mood so strongly consistent.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, in my view atmosphere and lack of technicality go basically hand in hand.

I don't really see why. I mean, just as a single example, take Outcry. I think it's a very atmospheric song, but at the same time, look at that instrumental section.
Same with Sacrificed Sons, In The Name of God, In The Presence of Enemies. All technical and atmospheric, I'd say.

[Ħ]

Or Blind Faith. Very atmospheric, very technical.

[TheGreatPretender]

Heck, even As I Am has atmosphere to it.

Actually, I think sometimes why it seems like they differ is because of the way the keyboards are used. Either Jordan (or Kevin or Derek) is playing crazy, technical keyboards, or they're just filling the atmosphere, not always able to do both at the same time.
But obviously, there are plenty of cases where they can and do serve both.

[hefdaddy42]

I agree with ? completely.

I will also say that another reason that I place Awake above all the others is that it is the only album where the lyrical content is almost as good as the musical content.  Yeah, there are silly lines here and there, but on Awake, they are the exceptions, not the rule as with most of their other output.

[MoraWintersoul]

I agree with ? completely.

I will also say that another reason that I place Awake above all the others is that it is the only album where the lyrical content is almost as good as the musical content.  Yeah, there are silly lines here and there, but on Awake, they are the exceptions, not the rule as with most of their other output.

What about Images?

[TheGreatPretender]

What about Images?

I was about to say...

[KevShmev]

I will also say that another reason that I place Awake above all the others is that it is the only album where the lyrical content is almost as good as the musical content.  Yeah, there are silly lines here and there, but on Awake, they are the exceptions, not the rule as with most of their other output.

Amen to that!  And I can't believe no one else, including me, had mentioned this yet.  I guess it's easy to get lost in the discussion, but yeah, Awake's lyrics are mostly pretty damn great.  I&W's are, too, but Awake's are just a little bit better.  And not just John Myung and Kevin Moore's; it is easy to forget that John Petrucci was a really good lyricist back in the day, especially when you consider some of the lyrics he has penned in recent years, but he wrote a lot of great lyrics back then.

[Ħ]

The lyrics are good by DT standards, but are still far from stellar, though. I mean, who really listens to DT for the lyrics? Anyway, I think all the lyrics pre-Octavarium are pretty good anyway, and most albums are on par with Awake.

[KevShmev]

The lyrics are good by DT standards, but are still far from stellar, though. I mean, who really listens to DT for the lyrics? Anyway, I think all the lyrics pre-Octavarium are pretty good anyway, and most albums are on par with Awake.

That is missing the point.  That is like saying, "Who cares about a song like Disappear? I mean, who listens to DT for ballads anyway?"  Good lyrics don't make or break their music, but they can enhance the overall experience. 

[Ħ]

That's true. But like I said, Awake's lyrics are good and not great, as are most of DT's lyrics across the span of their albums. So I don't think Awake's lyrics are really a selling point for it being the best album.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, whether the lyrics are good, great, or terrible is for the most part subjective. I mean, there is the odd occasion where everyone can agree when a lyric is really good or really bad. But for the most part, people's tastes will dictate how they feel about the lyrics to any given song.

[Ħ]

Well, if you want to play that card, the entire thing is completely subjective, so...

[TheGreatPretender]

Which is why we're having these discussions and disputing things. And expressing why we do or do not think Awake is the greatest thing ever.

[DebraKadabra]

Really, though, SDV is the greatest song on Awake.  There.  I said it.

Pfffft.  Not even close.  Thanks for playing, though.

[Pols Voice]

Awake definitely has some of the best lyrics. The quality of DT's lyrics began to slip noticeably over the years. One of the problems is that they became too literal.

[Zook]

Yeah, "moving forth through ember embrace" became "I walked through yellow sap."

[theanalogkid7]

Really, though, SDV is the greatest song on Awake.  There.  I said it.

Pfffft.  Not even close.  Thanks for playing, though.

Name a better song on Awake.  I dare you.

[JayOctavarium]

Really, though, SDV is the greatest song on Awake.  There.  I said it.

Pfffft.  Not even close.  Thanks for playing, though.

Name a better song on Awake.  I dare you.

She can't because one does not exist

[Zook]

All of them.

[Ħ]

I wouldn't say all of them, but Erotomania and Voices are both better than SDV.

[Zook]

I would.

[TheGreatPretender]

Space-Dye Vest is unlike anything DT has ever done, before or since. This 'different' factor is the main thing it's got going for it, but there are still far better songs on the album.

[The King in Crimson]

Space-Dye Vest is unlike anything DT has ever done, before or since. This 'different' factor is the main thing it's got going for it, but there are still far better songs on the album.

Not really, but it's not my favorite on the album.

[DebraKadabra]

She can't because one does not exist

Voices, Erotomania, and The Mirror would all like words with you.

All of them.

Yep.

[Pols Voice]

Space-Dye Vest is actually my least favorite song on Awake, but it's not bad. I like it for what it is and it gives the album more variety.

[goo-goo]

This thread made me pull the Awake cd and play it. I still enjoy it a lot. It has stood the test of time. It's still the best DT album for me. The lyrics are great. They are not as straightforward as the others and hard to interpret. I still think Awake is their pinnacle lyric wise. The first three albums (WDADU, IW and AW) are probably the best in the lyrics department in my opinion. DT has pulled some great songs lyric wise in each album but the quality has been declining ever since (but that's for another thread). Love the production on this one, love JP's guitar tone and MP's drums as well. Bass is great and loved James' voice on this one...Kevin's atmospheric keyboard playing also makes this record sound great. Edgy yet soaring. For me Scarred and Space Dye Vest are amazing closers for this album. Can't picture this album without SDV. You also have a bit of variety with the high tempo songs as Caught in a Web, 6:00 and Innocence Faded and dare to say a bit poppy sounding. Then you have the A Mind Besides Itself Suite, which is outstanding (could do without The Silent Man but it's part of it, so wtf LOL, but still is good nonetheless). You have The Mirror and Lie which are heavy and good riffs and in a perfect world, great radio singles for mainstream rock. Lifting Shadows is a great song by itself, dark, introspective and provides a nice mood setup to Scarred and follows up to SDV. This record has a little bit of everything and that's why I enjoy this record a lot.  It's not commercially sounding as FII (which I like), not as 90s sounding as Images, not as overly progressive as SFAM or 8V or 6DOIT (love disc 1, reminds me a bit of Awake) or BCSL, not as heavy as ToT but still heavy and dynamic enough, definitely doesn't sound like a blanket over the speakers as ADTOE (best material in years).

If I could describe this album in one word it would be DYNAMIC and that's what makes it great for me.

[MoraWintersoul]

If I could describe this album in one word it would be DYNAMIC and that's what makes it great for me.

Absolutely. ? and a couple others said they liked it because it was atmospheric, dark and not very technical. Those are big parts of Awake and I obviously adore that sorta music, but it's not the very reason why I like it, and dynamicity is. I an very involved when I listen to music, but with some albums, it seems you need to do all the work to involve yourself. Awake is not like that. It completely pulls you in conflicting directions, makes you a part of its little mood swings, it almost forces you to react to it. I like it when an album is so perfectly engaging.

[?]

I agree with ? completely.

I will also say that another reason that I place Awake above all the others is that it is the only album where the lyrical content is almost as good as the musical content.  Yeah, there are silly lines here and there, but on Awake, they are the exceptions, not the rule as with most of their other output.

Am I blessed with this now?



I agree with what you said about the lyrics, the guys were at the top of their game in that department (and basically every other department as well) back then.

And Milena, the diversity is a thing that I forgot to mention - thanks for reminding me! Of course DT have many diverse albums, but on Awake they also managed to keep a certain atmosphere running throughout the record AND sound multidimensional at the same time.

[Cruithne]

Awake's great. I don't think it's quite up to par with I&W and SFaM but it's damn close.

Sonically I think it's fabulous, JP's soloing was inspired (the ending of Innocence Faded is just superb) and JLB has never sounded better.

What stops it reaching as high as I&W and SFaM is Caught In A Web (bit meh for me), the opening 4:16 of Innocence Faded (blech) and the chromatic opening riff to Erotomania (I don't know why but it just agitates me).

If MP didn't have such a cob on about SDV I'm not sure it'd be discussed nearly as much as it is. It's not the best song on the album, but it does round off the album perfectly and I'm so glad DT recorded it since they did so much better a job than Kevin Moore could've on his own.

[hefdaddy42]

I agree with ? completely.

I will also say that another reason that I place Awake above all the others is that it is the only album where the lyrical content is almost as good as the musical content.  Yeah, there are silly lines here and there, but on Awake, they are the exceptions, not the rule as with most of their other output.

What about Images?

That one is good too, for the most part, but "It's time to take the time" is one of the worst lines I'ver heard from anyone ever. 

Across the board, I just think Awake's lyrics are better.

Awake's lyrics are good and not great, as are most of DT's lyrics across the span of their albums. So I don't think Awake's lyrics are really a selling point for it being the best album.

It's an enhancement.  And the lyrics on Awake are, I think, noticeably better than the span of their albums.  I mean, it's not close.  Good but not great?  Maybe compared to Dylan, Springsteen, or other musical acts known for lyrics.  But relative to DT's other output, they ARE great.

[Dublagent66]

Lyrics don't really make or break a song depending on the quality of music.  Afterall, it's the music that draws us in.  Lyrics are just another form of literature or poetry if you will.  The music is also a lot more universal than lyrics because lyrics can be interpreted so many ways or misinterpreted all the same.  So, I have some simple formulas when it comes to lyrics because they do actually count for something.

Bad lyrics + bad music = Horrible song
Good lyrics + bad music = Bad song
Bad Lyrics + good music = Good song
Good lyrics + good music = Great song

I rank I&W higher than Awake based on a music to lyrics ratio, but not by much. 

[The King in Crimson]

Lyrics don't really make or break a song depending on the quality of music. 

Sure they can.

[Progmetty]

Nope, Awake is a top 3 DT album at best.

[Dublagent66]

Lyrics don't really make or break a song depending on the quality of music. 

Sure they can.

Nah, only if you let it.  Songs can still be good with subpar lyrics.