Black Clouds & Silver Linings is still better than Systematic Chaos

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

I think every song on SC is pretty great. So yeah. You guys suck.

[GasparXR]

I think every song in the DT catalog is great.

[MoraWintersoul]

I think every song in the DT catalog is great.

[wasteland]

I think every song in the DT catalog is great.

I am about 5 songs away from this 

[BlobVanDam]

I think every song in the DT catalog is great.

I am about 5 songs away from this 

I am about [ALL OF YOUR FAVOURITE SONGS] away from this.

[Elite]

Just coming in to post a response on the thread title; no, it absolutely isn't.

[wasteland]

I think every song in the DT catalog is great.

I am about 5 songs away from this 

I am about [ALL OF YOUR FAVOURITE SONGS] away from this.

I though you liked Metropolis 

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

There are a few DT songs I don't really like, none of them on SC though. SC is very consistently good for me.

[TheGreatPretender]

I think every song on SC is pretty great. So yeah. You guys suck.

[GasparXR]

I think every song in the DT catalog is great.

I didn't think there would ever be an opportunity to use my avatar.

[MoraWintersoul]

I think every song in the DT catalog is great.

I didn't think there would ever be an opportunity to use my avatar.

I am an opportunist extraordinaire

[yorost]

Systematic Chaos has aged SO much better than BCSL in my opinion.

This, though both aged poorly.  BC&SL I can't take as an album.  I just listen to Nightmare and Count on occasion.  Systematic Chaos I can still hit play and be happy enough to not shut it off.  It's been a decade now since they've released an album (Train of Thought) I love.

[GasparXR]

I think every song in the DT catalog is great.

I didn't think there would ever be an opportunity to use my avatar.

I am an opportunist extraordinaire

[bosk1]

Systematic Chaos has aged SO much better than BCSL in my opinion.

This, though both aged poorly.  BC&SL I can't take as an album.  I just listen to Nightmare and Count on occasion.  Systematic Chaos I can still hit play and be happy enough to not shut it off.  It's been a decade now since they've released an album (Train of Thought) I love.

SC has actually aged pretty well for me, although the three songs from it that I don't like are ALL in my bottom 10 DT songs.  Black Clouds has one song in my bottom 10.  But like you, I rarely listen to the whole album--usually just ANTR, TSF, and TCOT.

[robwebster]

Fuck's sake.

On an unfamiliar laptop and kind of drunk - misclicked and Xed the window halfway through writing this post for the first time (I was trying to open a new tab to check a fact) so... ugh! If I'm curt, it's because I'm pissed off because I was arguing my point quite well, erased it all, and have only myself to blame. If you hate this post, don't worry, I'm profoundly hating writing it, too. So I agree! Call me a dick, a wanker, a gigantic pendulous knob, I won't argue, I'm just going to nod sagely and confirm it.

So to sum up, Black Clouds is probably a much more consistent album.  But it is also the less interesting of the two, despite a couple of songs on Systematic Chaos that I consider clunkers.

This, I think, is an excellent take on the differences between the two albums.

There's not much between them, quality-wise. They're both decent albums, neither's a master-piece, both feature a variety of different length songs in mix of styles and slightly favour metal ahead of prog... but Systematic Chaos is infinitely more fun!

Black Clouds & Silver Linings is probably slicker than SC, and it's probably slightly ahead of it quality-wise, but I find it a lot more austere. Systematic Chaos is no more a masterpiece than its maturer brother, but it revels in its identity. It's this huge cacophony dirty riffs, big melodies, sing-along choruses and ridiculous lyrics. It's not the kind of album that's going to sit shoulder-to-shoulder with Images and Words in a list of the most influential progressive rock albums, but it's not trying to, either. It's care-free - and I'd accept if you wanted to revise that to care-less - and I think that makes SC a much more entertaining listen. BCSL is a little over-earnest. It's a good, solid rock album which doesn't really convince as a prog rock classic, whereas SC is a good, solid rock album that knocks it out of the park as a cartoony metal fantasy. A giddy sugar-high. You can almost hear the band laughing.

Yes, both have editing problems, both are bloaty, and neither is going to define a genre any time soon, but I'd contend that Systematic Chaos is despite the odd blip rarely anything short of a joy, whereas Black Clouds & Silver Linings frequently threatens to become, if anything, a little bit boring. I'm not sure it ever quite manages, it basically stays on just the right side of "interesting," but oh, if it doesn't have a few near misses.

Systematic Chaos, in my mind, is so many leagues above Black Clouds & Silver Linings that it's not even a comparison. Systematic Chaos sounds like a band having the time of its like, Black Clouds sounds like the same album written by a band on auto-pilot. A band led by a man who, I think he himself eventually conceded, had said everything he wanted to say. Comparing them is dotty. BCSL was never, save perhaps for a few weeks in May when it stank of new car, better than Systematic Chaos. Maybe if you're judging on dull things like structure and technique, but who the hell's listening to a new Dream Theater album and going "oh the transition between those two instruments was most exquisite, they've reprised the melody fabulously and this must be at least a seven in my top ten?*" DT are technical, but that's never been the centrepiece - it's never at the cost of spirit. They write music's to be enjoyed, and on enjoyment alone, I think SC is beyond infectious. In my head, this is a one-horse race.

Hey! Turns out I wasn't curt.

*Answer: Depressingly, probably loads of people.

[cyberdrummer]

I don't know why you were worrying, that's one hell of a post. I agree with pretty much everything you say.

[Onno]

I don't know why you were worrying, that's one hell of a post. I agree with pretty much everything you say.

This. Rob strikes again.

[Pols Voice]

There isn't one track on SC I like all the way through. It aged badly for me. Whatever.

[Dark Castle]

Both albums in the title are leagues better than Train of Thought.

[robwebster]

I don't know why you were worrying, that's one hell of a post. I agree with pretty much everything you say.

Not worried! Just, aware that not everyone's going to agree, and was seething at myself as I wrote it, so hopefully everyone can find something to enjoy. Those who agree with me will like that I said a nice thing, those who don't will like that I was swearing under my breath throughout because I had to write it twice, and it's never as good the second time round.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Both albums in the title are leagues better than Train of Thought.

True.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't know why you were worrying, that's one hell of a post. I agree with pretty much everything you say.

Not worried! Just, aware that not everyone's going to agree, and was seething at myself as I wrote it, so hopefully everyone can find something to enjoy. Those who agree with me will like that I said a nice thing, those who don't will like that I was swearing under my breath throughout because I had to write it twice, and it's never as good the second time round.

Rob, you could type up a post informing me that you'd just raped and killed my entirely family simply because you felt like it, and that I had a face uglier than the unholy offspring of Maggie Gyllenhaal and Clint Howard, and you'd type it so damn eloquently that I'd thank you, and mutter to myself "what a nice fellow."

[Kotowboy]

Both albums in the title are leagues better than Train of Thought.

[wasteland]

I can say that I almost agree, even though I have some seriously cringeworthy moments in SC (CM). No, in the end I'm afraid that Train Of Thought is better. Yeah, definitely 

[?]

I can say that I almost agree, even though I have some seriously cringeworthy moments in SC (CM). No, in the end I'm afraid that Train Of Thought is better. Yeah, definitely 

TOT is easily better than SC and BC&SL!

[hefdaddy42]

I can say that I almost agree, even though I have some seriously cringeworthy moments in SC (CM). No, in the end I'm afraid that Train Of Thought is better. Yeah, definitely 

TOT is easily better than SC and BC&SL!

Yeah, I think so too.

[wasteland]

I can say that I almost agree, even though I have some seriously cringeworthy moments in SC (CM). No, in the end I'm afraid that Train Of Thought is better. Yeah, definitely 

TOT is easily better than SC and BC&SL!

But only because of Vacant / SOC

[hefdaddy42]

I can say that I almost agree, even though I have some seriously cringeworthy moments in SC (CM). No, in the end I'm afraid that Train Of Thought is better. Yeah, definitely 

TOT is easily better than SC and BC&SL!

But only because of Vacant / SOC

No, not only because of those (although I think Vacant is the best song on the album).

[?]

I can say that I almost agree, even though I have some seriously cringeworthy moments in SC (CM). No, in the end I'm afraid that Train Of Thought is better. Yeah, definitely 

TOT is easily better than SC and BC&SL!

But only because of Vacant / SOC

For some reason I'm not surprised that those 2 are your favorites...

TOT may not be the most varied DT album, but the songwriting is much more solid than on the 2 albums mentioned in the thread title. With the exception of Forsaken, SC doesn't include any songs that are worth listening to from start to finish, but I can sit through the weakest moments on TOT (although I'm not too keen on the second half of TDS ). Black Clouds is somewhere in between: TCOT is really good and I also like ANTR and Wither, but I never listen to the other 3 songs.

[wasteland]

Why did you think so? Because I tend to like mellow or proggy stuff? Would it surprise you then to hear that TDEN is likely my favourite song on SC?

[?]

Just based on that one comment you made in Milena's top 50 thread and knowing that you don't like TGP that much...

TDEN has to be the worst song on SC besides POW, but the competition for that title is very tough!

[Zook]

1. ITPoE PT 1 - Amazing. One of their best intros.
2. Forsaken - Gets too much shit. I think it's pretty good.
3. Constant Motion - A tad silly, and the chorus is kinda lame, but a solid rocker.
4. TDEN - I was never put off by the lyrics, as I'm into to some Power and fantasy metal bands. The instrumental section is pretty cool, if not a bit too long, but I don't mind it.
5. Repentance - Another one that gets too much shit, but I like ballads. I don't find it boring.
6. Prophets of War - Fuck this song
7. TMoLS - I never feel bored when listening to this song, but at the same time I don't find it all that interesting until the instrumental section everyone hates that I love. Endless Sacrifice is way better.
8. ITPoE PT 2 - If you're a fan of Haribo Gummy Frogs, don't get them at a candy store in the mall. EVER.  The dark master section is on the cheesy side, but the rest of the song slays, and that includes The Reckoning.

1. A RORORO To Remember - All is well until the dueling solos, and it just keeps dropping.
2. A Rite of Bebot - I don't mind the bebot solo although it's very weird and silly and kind of out of place. Petrucci's solo is cool, but the song is just meh. Very boring chorus.
3. Wither - I think I'd like it more if JP didn't rip off Queen, but even if that little tid bit wasn't in there, the song is still really plain and dull.
4. The Shattered Fortress - AWESOME, and I love JR's solo.
5. The Worst of Times - This song does nothing for me. The whole thing, not just the lyrics.
6. The Count of Tuscany - Still amazing. The silly lyrics never bothered me, and they're really what makes the song so much fun.


Black Clouds & Silver Linings is NOT better than Systematic Chaos.

[wasteland]

6. The Count of Tuscany - Still amazing. The silly lyrics never bothered me, and they're really what makes the song so much fun.

At last! Someone who finally speaks my truth! 

[?]

I'm not the biggest fan of the TCOT lyrics, but the music itself is so good that they don't ruin the song for me, although it's pretty hard to keep a straight face when MP and James are trying to sound "metal" while singing about bearded historians, pipes and wines

[darkshade]

If you took the best of SC and BC&SL and fit it on one disc, THAT might be better than TOT.