Black Clouds & Silver Linings is still better than Systematic Chaos

[darkshade]

I've been going through the DT discography chronologically over the last few weeks, and yesterday I listened to Systematic Chaos, which is a great album of course, but the second half of the album really brings it down IMO, save ITPOE2. Today I listened to BC&SL and the power of the album blew me away for the first time in a while (I over-listened to it when it came out). There's just something about it that makes it stand out against SC. Thought I'd share my thoughts, as both albums have had plenty of time to age having been out for 4-6 years, and the newness of Black Clouds has faded for some time now. For all the things good about it, SC is still a bottom 3 DT album for me, whereas BC&SL is a top 5 DT album.

[?]

BC&SL is definitely better than SC but it doesn't take much to beat a weak album like that. ADTOE is a much more significant improvement over both albums.

[hefdaddy42]

It might be better, but the difference between the two doesn't seem to me to be very much now, unlike when it was initially released.

[KevShmev]

BC&SL is definitely better than SC but it doesn't take much to beat a weak album like that. ADTOE is a much more significant improvement over both albums.

This, pretty much.  To me, the worst song on BC&SL is better than half of the songs on SC.

[Pols Voice]

Black Clouds isn't great, but it's easily better than SC. The Count of Tuscany especially.

[Kotowboy]

BC&SL is definitely better than SC but it doesn't take much to beat a weak album like that. ADTOE is a much more significant improvement over both albums.

[Kotowboy]

Track by Track :

Opener : ITPoE > A Nightmare To Rmemeber

The rocker : A Rite Of Passage > Constant Motion [ for me ]

The Ballady one : Wither > Forsaken

The big Rocker : Shattered Fortress  > TDEN

The Big Epic : The Best Of Times = Ministry ?

The Big Closer : The COunt of Tuscany > ITPoe 2 ?

[Unlegit]

Black Clouds isn't great, but it's easily better than SC. The Count of Tuscany especially.

Agree with this. ItPoE is definitely the highlight of SC, but other than that, the rest of the album isn't that good.

[King Postwhore]

BC&SL by a longshot.

[Kotowboy]

Back when it came out - I would listen to the whole CD from beginning to end on my stereo in my house at night with the lights off and it sounded great. I could never manage that with SC.

Plus I recently listened to Octavarium end to end and I still love it to bits whilst ADTOE is a bit of a mission to listen to in one go.

[King Postwhore]

I agree with everything you said except for ADTOE.  I listen to it all the time.  But to each his own.

[Kotowboy]

I just don't find ADToE as entertaining from start to finish as Octavarium

It just has a great vibe and production.

[wasteland]

Yeah, it's still better. Hell, the Count alone is better than all SC! 

[Perpetual Change]

It might be better, but the difference between the two doesn't seem to me to be very much now, unlike when it was initially released.

Yeah, exactly.

[Dreamer81]

From SC and BC&SL i save only ITPOE, TMOLS and TCOT, all the other songs are mediocre at best. ADTOE is a major improvement !!

[JediKnight1969]

I rejected SC from day one, but last year I listened to it A LOT, and I dug it. I like it A LOT now. Didn't happened with BC&SL yet. So far I don't like that record.

[Mindflux]

I rejected SC from day one, but last year I listened to it A LOT, and I dug it. I like it A LOT now. Didn't happened with BC&SL yet. So far I don't like that record.

SC is probably my 3rd most listened to DT disc after SFAM and 8VM.  I was/still am sorely disappointed in BC&SL and ADTOE.

[cyberdrummer]

Systematic Chaos has aged SO much better than BCSL in my opinion. The only song I don't still listen to is TMoLS. Whereas the only song I do still listen to from BCSL is The Count of Tuscany (and occasionally the piano version of Wither).   

[GasparXR]

I think I like them almost equally, but SC is more consistent. That is, the low points in BCSL are lower than SC (Constant Motion>A Rite of Passage), but the high points are higher (The Count of Tuscany>The Ministry of Lost Souls). And yes, TMOLS is really awesome.

[WildeSilas]

I didn't read anything but the OP, but NO.

[Nel_Annette]

I think I like them almost equally, but SC is more consistent. That is, the low points in BCSL are lower than SC (Constant Motion>A Rite of Passage), but the high points are higher (The Count of Tuscany>The Ministry of Lost Souls). And yes, TMOLS is really awesome.

I can agree with this, though I see where a lot of you are coming from. Personally, I like SC more, but that album was my introduction to the band, so it's always held a special place in my heart. By the time BC&SL rolled in, I had already listened to the rest of the discography extensively.

BC&SL sounds like the culmination of all the musical styles of 6DOIT, ToT, 8VM, and SC, like it's a big finale to Dream Theater's 2000s era (and the 12 Step suite was almost like the string that held it all together). My problem with the album was that while it seemed to be this big combination, none of the songs on it ever really surpassed any of the best parts of the previous 4 albums, and it didn't really have any staying power with me.

That said, the middle section of A Nightmare To Remember is still awesome, and musically, The Count Of Tuscany is still brilliant. The other songs aren't bad, I just think that DT had done better before.

[cyberdrummer]

I can agree with this, though I see where a lot of you are coming from. Personally, I like SC more, but that album was my introduction to the band, so it's always held a special place in my heart. By the time BC&SL rolled in, I had already listened to the rest of the discography extensively.

I actually think this makes a lot of difference in terms of ranking albums. I'd probably place Octavarium in my top 4, and that's at least partly due to it being the first album I had anticipated as a fan of the band.

[darkshade]

I can agree with this, though I see where a lot of you are coming from. Personally, I like SC more, but that album was my introduction to the band, so it's always held a special place in my heart. By the time BC&SL rolled in, I had already listened to the rest of the discography extensively.

I actually think this makes a lot of difference in terms of ranking albums. I'd probably place Octavarium in my top 4, and that's at least partly due to it being the first album I had anticipated as a fan of the band.

Same here. I think Octavarium has aged even better than BC&SL has.

As far as comparing SC to BC&SL, SC has Prophets Of War, which I still cannot stand and kinda ruined my listening experience when I listened to the album the other day, it had been the first time in a while since I last listened to POW.

Taking POW out of the equation, here is my back-to-back:

ITPOE1 < ANTR

Forsaken < Wither

CM > AROP

TDEN < TSF

TMOLS < TBOT

ITPOE2 < TCOT

TCOT would also beat the entire ITPOE if considered one track (which I do).

Repentence has nothing to really compare it to on BC&SL, and I enjoy it, so SC only has that and CM over BC&SL.

Listening to them back to back, though some say there is the smallest change between albums throughout their career, I think they have their own identity, both in the production and with the songs and compositions themselves. SC is more ballsy and in-your-face, BC&SL is more melodic with a hard edge, and epic.

I prefer JP's tone on BC&SL than on SC. The only thing that bothers me with Black Clouds is it's occasionally hard to hear Jordan; and with 1 or 2 short exceptions, Myung is inaudible.

[Kotowboy]

SC is more ballsy and in-your-face, BC&SL is more melodic with a hard edge, and epic.

Nobody wants to get tea-bagged by MP.

[ZKX-2099]

Was there ever even a great debate?

[Cable]

Re: OP, correct.

[Implode]

The only song I'd listen to off of SC was ITPOE, and even that has now grown stale. It's kind of worthless to me.

[BlobVanDam]

SC is definitely better, and I really like both.
BCASL suffers a bit for the fact it has so few songs, so TBOT and TSF alone drag it down to inconsistent. SC I can pretty much listen to from start to finish. Ok, PoW isn't great, but that's it.

I'd say SC is DT's most underrated album, especially now that FII seems to be getting its due credit.

[Implode]

It's funny, because POW is probably one of my favorite songs on SC. 

[TheGreatPretender]

SC is definitely better, and I really like both.

I'd say SC is DT's most underrated album, especially now that FII seems to be getting its due credit.

This.

[nikatapi]

I might agree with the people that prefer SC over BC&SL. When the latter came out, i really enjoyed it and thought it was a return to form for DT. But, now i pretty much listen to only Wither, The first half-skipping the "metal" TCOT (the lyrics are so awful i can't even stand them any more) and most of ANTR.

SC seems more consistent, there are more better songs, but the production is probably the worst DT production ever (yes i include WDADU), it's so brickwalled and the drums are so loud. In terms of songwriting though, i think it is a better album.

Thankfully ADTOE is really better than both of these albums, and i expect a further improvement in the upcoming album.

[Onno]

I'd say SC is DT's most underrated album.

^that.

And I don't know about BC&SL>SC. I really like them both.

[Tomislav95]

BC&SL may have better songs (ANTR and TCOT especially) but album is IMO tiring to listen to

[ZKX-2099]

For guitar solos, Black Clouds is the best.

[Nel_Annette]

I can agree with this, though I see where a lot of you are coming from. Personally, I like SC more, but that album was my introduction to the band, so it's always held a special place in my heart. By the time BC&SL rolled in, I had already listened to the rest of the discography extensively.

I actually think this makes a lot of difference in terms of ranking albums. I'd probably place Octavarium in my top 4, and that's at least partly due to it being the first album I had anticipated as a fan of the band.

Yeah. It's probably why I really like Prophets Of War. I had no expectations of what DT had done before that, and I think that helped a bit.

The Ministry Of Lost Souls is great, but even from my first listen I thought it dragged a bit much.