bosk1's BOTTOM 50 DT songs v. well this is different

[Rattlehead]

I'm looking forward to seeing the last 2 

[bosk1]

Well, TDEN always subliminally makes me want to play Super Mario for some reason, to that automatically moves it up pretty high even apart from it just being a good, fun song.

[KevShmev]

When Awake first came out and I hear SDV, I thought, "Wow, this doesn't sound like Dream Theater at all."  Today, I still think this.  It really should be classified as a Kevin Moore song.   

Opinions like this, regardless of how much you like or dislike the song, still make zero sense.  If the band Dream Theater is playing the music, then that is what they sound like at that moment.  It's like a man cheating on his wife and saying, "That's not who I am."  Uh, if you did it, then that IS who you are, at least at that moment or time.  Same thing with DT and this song.

[Ruba]

The Answer Lies Within does not deserve all the hate. I like it, but I admit it's not one of their most memorable songs.

[MoraWintersoul]

When Awake first came out and I hear SDV, I thought, "Wow, this doesn't sound like Dream Theater at all."  Today, I still think this.  It really should be classified as a Kevin Moore song.   

Opinions like this, regardless of how much you like or dislike the song, still make zero sense.  If the band Dream Theater is playing the music, then that is what they sound like at that moment.  It's like a man cheating on his wife and saying, "That's not who I am."  Uh, if you did it, then that IS who you are, at least at that moment or time.  Same thing with DT and this song.

Well, the KM demo sounds pretty much alike the song, so it really is a full-KM song that DT have played. The only reason why it jumps out at you, in this case, is because it is really weird, as opposed to, let's say, WFS.

[Another_Won]

When Awake first came out and I hear SDV, I thought, "Wow, this doesn't sound like Dream Theater at all."  Today, I still think this.  It really should be classified as a Kevin Moore song.   

Opinions like this, regardless of how much you like or dislike the song, still make zero sense.  If the band Dream Theater is playing the music, then that is what they sound like at that moment.  It's like a man cheating on his wife and saying, "That's not who I am."  Uh, if you did it, then that IS who you are, at least at that moment or time.  Same thing with DT and this song.

I have to respectfully disagree.  JP himself said about how ADTOE starts with DTs signature sound.  They had it back then too which is why the song stood out so much.  I agree that technically it is DT but that is not what I'm saying.  If you like SDV then you might not agree with me and that's fine.

[KevShmev]

Every song does not have to feature a band's signature sound to sound like the band.  Unless you are AC/DC.

[Another_Won]

Every song does not have to feature a band's signature sound to sound like the band.  Unless you are AC/DC.

You're right and I wouldn't want them to do that on every song.  It would get really boring.  I liked the contributions that KM made to the band and I defiantly accept SDV as "part of the family."  It just really stood out to me, not bad, not good.

[Podaar]

48.  Space-Dye Vest - Wait...how exactly did Space Dye Vest manage to be #48 and not #50?  I am almost as surprised as most of you.  But when I look at my #49 and #50, I have to grudgingly say, "Yeah, as bad as Space Dye Vest is, there are two songs I have to rank lower."  It's a very close call, but the way the distorted guitar is used very subtly for background atmosphere is something I can stretch to call a positive.  But as for why it's ranked so low, I find nothing to like about this song at all.  It feels so melodramatic for no good reason, and the biggest problem is that I am convinced that Kevin Moore actually views this as a serious song rather than a melodramatic song.  I have no problem with melodramatic in the proper context.  But when a songwriter intends a song to be completely serious and deep, but it ends up only being melodramatic and shallow, it just makes everything about the song seem silly and pointless.  This song at one point held the distinction of having the most pointless, childish lyrics of any song I had ever heard.  Then I had the displeasure of seeing a band called Kill Hannah in an opening slot in 2009.  Still, this song isn't far behind.  If they ever played this song live at a show I was at, I would listen and enjoy it and would be thankful to be reminded once again of how thoughtful the band is toward their fans to play something so rare that has become almost a cult classic.  But beyond that, not interested.

I agree with all of this and would add that, for me, the melodrama has always been rooted in the fact that this song is so obviously written by someone from a privileged upbringing 'imagining' what it must be like to suffer. I think that contributes to the "contrived" tag this song often gets. To quote Carmine Falcone, "You've never tasted desperate."

[bosk1]

^Yeah, you totally nailed it.  Good call.

[Cool Chris]

You guys read way, way too much in to lyrics.

Good point Kev, and off-topic, I hate when people do something, and then they say "that's not who I am." Well, you did it, so unless some other entity took control of your body, yes it is who you are.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

When Awake first came out and I hear SDV, I thought, "Wow, this doesn't sound like Dream Theater at all."  Today, I still think this.  It really should be classified as a Kevin Moore song.   

Opinions like this, regardless of how much you like or dislike the song, still make zero sense.  If the band Dream Theater is playing the music, then that is what they sound like at that moment.  It's like a man cheating on his wife and saying, "That's not who I am."  Uh, if you did it, then that IS who you are, at least at that moment or time.  Same thing with DT and this song.

The difference is that, whereas one person always has control over his or her actions (barring some sort of insanity), a band's music can come from any number of sources. Some bands obviously have one "leader" who writes all the songs and then just feature a rotating cast of musicians around that leader. We know that, when it comes to DT, their music is often a compromise between the ideas of different members. It therefore becomes possible to evaluate a lot of things in that context.

A good example is how when Jordan first joined, he brought all those little ideas into the studio and the band rejected a lot of them because it "wouldn't sound like DT" if they used them. So clearly, the band have a conception of some kind of boundaries they can't stray outside of and still be in their "zone" of music, for lack of a better term. If that's tangible to them, it makes perfect sense that it's tangible to the more zealous part of the fanbase as well.

[Ħ]

I kind of agree with your assessment of SDV, although there are worse songs.

[KevShmev]

Good point Kev, and off-topic, I hate when people do something, and then they say "that's not who I am." Well, you did it, so unless some other entity took control of your body, yes it is who you are.

Generally speaking, yes.  I am not saying a band can be defined by a single song, or a person by a single act, but the idea that "it's not Dream Theater" is just so silly to me.

A good example is how when Jordan first joined, he brought all those little ideas into the studio and the band rejected a lot of them because it "wouldn't sound like DT" if they used them. So clearly, the band have a conception of some kind of boundaries they can't stray outside of and still be in their "zone" of music, for lack of a better term. If that's tangible to them, it makes perfect sense that it's tangible to the more zealous part of the fanbase as well.

Well, I have said many times that I was disappointed that they would think that way, since if you incorporate things that are not a part of your sound into your music, then they become part of your sound, but hey, it's their band and they can do what they want with it.  But when a band is labeled progressive, that usually means that they don't put themselves in a box and say, "We can't stray out of it," which is why something that is a departure from their signature sound is just as much them as a song that could be argued is just another formulaic regurgitation of their typical sound/song.  For example, Outcry just sounds like your typical DT 10-minute song, but according to some, that is totally DT because it sounds like so many other songs they've done (stylistically; not referring to the silly I&W thing ).  Meanwhile, if they dare to be different for a song or two, that isn't DT because it is too different?  Rubbish.

Plus, in the case of Space Dye Vest, Disappear is as much of a departure from their signature sound as that is, so is that really not Dream Theater either?  The fact that one was written by one member and the other was written by the whole band is irrelevant.  Unless we are now gonna argue that Wither is not really DT either, since JP wrote it by himself.

[Ħ]

ITT: KevShmev finally reveals himself to be Kevin Moore. (hurr hurr big surprise there)

[DebraKadabra]

Oh, by the way, bosk. I found something that may be of interest to you 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uMGJFdIGLU

Holy SHIT.

Well, you have Wey to thank for that.  He reminded JP of the fact that the anniversary was coming up, and suggested they do something special.  From my understanding, it wasn't even on the band's radar prior to that conversation.

That was especially special.

Oh, and SDV should be lower.

[KevShmev]

Oh, and SDV should be lower.

That's it, I am gonna feature a Ratt song in the 80s thread now, just to aggravate you.

[DebraKadabra]

Do it!  I loved Ratt back in the day.

Yes.  You read right.  I admitted it.

[MoraWintersoul]

You guys read way, way too much in to lyrics.

Yeah, I thought I was reading too much into the lyrics I mean, how can you possibly tell if someone was actually suffering, or what they were intending the song to be? The only thing KM ever said about the song's purpose or the emotions behind its conception, besides the description of what it was about, was it that it was "trying to sort it out", and that the song probably sounds "tragic" (he used this adjective several times, so it was probably pretty deliberate, and I find it pretty synonymous to "melodramatic" in bosk's writeup, meaning he sort of admits it's really out off the angsty charts) because it came "in the middle of it [the event]". And of course something that comes out of you is going to sound tragic, or melodramatic, when you're going through something.

I'm sorry to get my awkward inner KM geek out but I find it illogical to interpret other people's emotions through your experience of a display of a limited range of their emotions in a seven minute piece of music and lyrics, you can only really go by what's REALLY in there and what they have said. It would be like if I said "Okay JP totally wanted to beat the crap out of that Queensryche guitarist dude, As I Am sounds like the angriest thing in the world for me" or something along the lines of that. I mean it could be true but how am I supposed to know if I don't ask JP?

[KevShmev]

Do it!  I loved Ratt back in the day.

Yes.  You read right.  I admitted it.

Hmmm, I could have swore that you were one of the ones who trashed them big time the few times I had featured them so far.

[DebraKadabra]

If it was anything much past the first two albums, it's possible.

[bosk1]

That was especially special.

I'm sure it was.    I haven't checked GDT in ages, but I'd guess somebody captured that show and that it is up there as a GDT release, right?

Oh, and SDV should be lower.

Well, but what about  and  ? 

[hefdaddy42]

TALW is depressingly, nauseously irrelevant.

[bosk1]

TALW is depressingly, nauseously irrelevant.

Hey now!  That's--!...surprisingly spot on.

[bosk1]

That's it, I am gonna feature a Ratt song in the 80s thread now, just to aggravate you.

There is a certain recent post about Peeps that is perhaps surprisingly relevant.

[KevShmev]

To me, The Answer Lies Within is another one of those Octavarium songs that isn't great, isn't bad, isn't memorable, isn't noteworthy at all, etc....it's just kind of there. 

[Dream Team]

If it was anything much past the first two albums, it's possible.

Not to encourage the derail, but I agree Out of the Cellar is great and Invasion of Your Privacy isn't too bad either. OOTC especially is IMO one of the very best hair metal/glam albums.

[DebraKadabra]

That was especially special.

I'm sure it was.    I haven't checked GDT in ages, but I'd guess somebody captured that show and that it is up there as a GDT release, right?

Um... you'll have to ask about that one.

There is a certain recent post about Peeps that is perhaps surprisingly relevant.

Yep.

[KevShmev]

If it was anything much past the first two albums, it's possible.

Not to encourage the derail, but I agree Out of the Cellar is great and Invasion of Your Privacy isn't too bad either. OOTC especially is IMO one of the very best hair metal/glam albums.

Head over to the 80s thread in GMD for this.  No need to derail a DT thread with too much talk about freaking Ratt.

[DebraKadabra]

 

[bosk1]

Well, Dream Theater's cover of Round & Round is NOT in my bottom 50. 

[DebraKadabra]

 

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

TALW is pretty good. SDV is one of their best songs.

[bosk1]

And so, it is down to 2...

49.  You Not Me - For the first time in a long time, I listened to Falling Into Infinity as a whole a few weeks ago.  I was surprised that I didn't dislike the verses in this song as much as I had remembered.  But then the chorus...  I so badly want to blame Desmond Child for this song.  But then I go back and listen to You Or Me and realize that he really didn't have much to work with anyway.  Other than substantially changing the song into something completely different, he was doomed to fail with one of the truly rare bad songs in the DT discography.

50.  later...

[BlobVanDam]

First of all, I want to say I have absolutely no problem at all with this choice at all, and it definitely deserves a spot in this list, BUT I've never thought the song was that bad that it deserved the hate it gets. It's far too mediocre to warrant that kind of negative response.
I think YNM is marginally better than YOM, although that's splitting hairs.