bosk1's BOTTOM 50 DT songs v. well this is different

[KevShmev]

Constant Motion should sit at the bottom of this list, but I am pretty sure that bosk is one of those misguided souls who actually likes it.

[bosk1]

I LOVE me some Constant Motion.  It currently sits at #30 in my all-time DT discog. ranking.

[wasteland]

Oh, by the way, bosk. I found something that may be of interest to you 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uMGJFdIGLU

[bosk1]

Oh, by the way, bosk. I found something that may be of interest to you 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uMGJFdIGLU

Wow.  Now THAT was a truly phenominal vocal performance.  I was expecting James to go into scream mode for the highest parts like he does on LATM, but he didn't.  It is SO hard to sing the way he did.  I mean, yeah, it's very high.  But it stays high for so long and has such difficult high notes without some of the buildups you normally put in to allow your singer to get there.  And it goes from high head voice to belting and back again.  And there is just so much emotion and nuance that has to be put in as well, so that you can't just scream the high parts and have it sound good.  And somehow, he managed to nail all of that in that clip.  I am truly blown away.  But in a way, the fact that clips like that are SO RARE, and that the only one I have seen so far (the one you just posted) is not only extremely rare, but is also from a time period when James was younger and on top of his game really proves the point about how nearly impossible it is to pull this song off properly in a live setting. 

[wasteland]

I have to agree. There are only three recorded shows with a performance of AD of such level (by the way, if you wish I can upload the whole DVD of the night for you, it's by far the best performance of his life and a must know for every DT fan - especially for singers!), and they all date back to the first two weeks of the Images And Words tour, right before James had his first vocal catastrophe, in late October 92. Another Day has since been a nearly prohibitive song to pull off live, and the only instance of it that I would call great are all clustered, expectedly, in 1993. The 2012 anniversary one-off thing was rather cool, almost unexpectedly so, especially since the song was performed so late into the set. 

[bosk1]

Well, you have Wey to thank for that.  He reminded JP of the fact that the anniversary was coming up, and suggested they do something special.  From my understanding, it wasn't even on the band's radar prior to that conversation.

I may take you up on that DVD.  But I may already have it.  Not sure.  All my bootlegs are in a box because I just haven't had the time to watch/listen to them in a long time.  I'll have to go back and check to see whether I have them.

[drew512]

The 2012 anniversary one-off thing was rather cool, almost unexpectedly so, especially since the song was performed so late into the set. 

I was simultaneously thrilled and terrified when they started playing AD that night in Austin. It's such a brutal song to sing, I was afraid James would really struggle with it. There were some rough spots, sure, but overall I was impressed with what he was able to do. I'm glad I was able to be there and record it for others to enjoy.

by the way, if you wish I can upload the whole DVD of the night for you, it's by far the best performance of his life and a must know for every DT fan - especially for singers

Not sure about bosk, but I would LOVE that.

[KevShmev]

I LOVE me some Constant Motion.  It currently sits at #30 in my all-time DT discog. ranking.

[?]

Oh, by the way, bosk. I found something that may be of interest to you 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uMGJFdIGLU

Phenomenal! I love the version of The Killing Hand from the same show.

Well, you have Wey to thank for that.  He reminded JP of the fact that the anniversary was coming up, and suggested they do something special.  From my understanding, it wasn't even on the band's radar prior to that conversation.

Cool! It's good that they listen to little suggestions for the setlist, like when they replaced As I Am with Pull Me Under for the Stockholm setlist in the last minute on the ADTOE tour.

Speaking of the setlists, am I the only one who thinks they should bring Another Day back as an acoustic version? I think it's the only way that song could be played regularly because the vocal melodies on the original are so demanding.

[Cool Chris]

45.  The Ministry of Lost Souls - Stuff

All that from the guy who has SDoIT as his #1 song?

I'd rather listen to TMoLS 5 times in a row before listening to SDoIT.

By the way, first time commenter, long time thread follower.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

TMOLS is beautiful. Then again I'm one of the resident SC lovers.

[bosk1]

By the way, first time commenter, long time thread follower.

  As far as Six Degrees vs. TMOLS, all I can say is, in Six Degrees, there is a lot of variety and it all works together to form an amazing piece of music.  In TMOLS, the song just plods and I do not feel like it goes anywhere interesting.  Despite its length, Six Degrees never has me wishing it was over.  TMOLS, despite being much shorter, feels too long and does make me wish it was over.  It's all subjective, but that's how I personally feel about those two tracks.  Other than the fact that both are long by traditional standards, they are two VERY different pieces of music that share little in common.

Then again I'm one of the resident SC lovers.

Me too.  Well, actually, I'm a lover of most of SC.  I would say about 1/3 is incredible; 1/3 is good; 1/3 is blech.  But I would say the same about Images & Words as well, and that album ranks very high for me.  They are both VERY solid albums, IMO, but both have some weak points.  And I'm perfectly okay with that.

[Another_Won]

Well I think we've covered TMoLS already.  The only reason I can get through the first part is because I know the instrumental part is coming up.  So I can understand why people might not like it.

Honestly, I don't understand the hate for TOWHTSTS.  It's pretty good to me.  I think what happened was that the first time I heard the song was from the bootleg of the '04 performance and so that is how I judge it.  The best part is (bass, I think) that is really funky and has a great groove. Ba dow, ba dow  . . . you know, the part that almost sound like a talk-box, does anyone know what I'm talking about?  Anyway, even when I listen to the original I hear this part.

[MoraWintersoul]

Speaking of the setlists, am I the only one who thinks they should bring Another Day back as an acoustic version? I think it's the only way that song could be played regularly because the vocal melodies on the original are so demanding.

Well, Surrounded is even more difficult than AD and JLB has managed to pull that one off, so I think that with slight changes in vocal melodies AD could be reintroduced next tour, if JLB stays in his current vocal shape.

[wasteland]

Speaking of the setlists, am I the only one who thinks they should bring Another Day back as an acoustic version? I think it's the only way that song could be played regularly because the vocal melodies on the original are so demanding.

Well, Surrounded is even more difficult than AD and JLB has managed to pull that one off, so I think that with slight changes in vocal melodies AD could be reintroduced next tour, if JLB stays in his current vocal shape.

Truth has spoken. Unless the changes are disruptive (Metropolis in January 1998), I'm all for them. 

[bosk1]

I disagree about Surrounded being more difficult.  It's not.

[Perpetual Change]

Yes.  But there's more...

45.  The Ministry of Lost Souls - Okay, DT.  You wanna have super long songs that really take a long time to develop the idea/story rather than just rushing through and getting it over with?  Cool.    Lots of interesting musical ideas that you wouldn't really expect to see combined in the same song?  I'm down with that.    Long instrumental section?  Sign me up.  And yet...this song just does not work for me on any level at all.  I am one of the first people to roll my eyes and jump into the fray when I hear people criticize Dream Theater or progressive rock in general for being overly long, pretentious, etc.  But this is a VERY rare instance where I feel that all the criticisms that people sometimes level at progressive music seem completely apprpriate when aimed at this song.  And yet, it still has some redeeming moments.  The instrumental section, for example, really is quite good.  But it would have been better served if it was in a better song.  Unfortunately, TMOLS suffers a bit from being the second to last song on an album that does not have a super-strong closer.  Yeah, In The Presence Of Enemies 2 is good.  But it suffers a bit by being separated from pt. 1.  By itself, it's a good album closer, but not a great one.  And the album as a whole really starts to lose a lot of steam in the second half, so TMOLS really feels like a chore to get through.  I usually only listen to the album now with a revised track listing where I have cut out the worst song in the DT catalog and rearranged the track order.  On that playlist, TMOLS is the album closer.  I sometimes still just skip it altogether and don't bother listening to it.  But I occasionally let it play, and I have to say, it works better to close out the album than it does buried in a weak second half of an album that starts off incredibly strong, but then feels like it fizzles out due to tracks like this one.  I really HATE seeing terms like "over-long," "pretentious," "boring," etc. used in connection with Dream Theater at all.  But...I really can't argue with terms like that being used to describe this song.  I apologize to those who like it, but I just don't.

Bingo. This song is a HUGE dud and, apologies to MMierzejewski, that fact that it's 1/5th of the DT material on Symphonic Theater of Dreams is one big reason why I haven't gotten it. Yet.

[MoraWintersoul]

I disagree about Surrounded being more difficult.  It's not.

To me it is more difficult, not only does it have an extra high, long verse parallel to "they took pictures of our dreams" - "once lost..." - it also has trickier phrasing in general. Maybe my opinion is influenced by the fact I have the range of a 20-year-old girl (logically) but not the technique of one James LaBrie, so I find the trickier song harder.

[hefdaddy42]

I disagree about Surrounded being more difficult.  It's not.

This.  Not even close.

[bosk1]

I disagree about Surrounded being more difficult.  It's not.

To me it is more difficult, not only does it have an extra high, long verse parallel to "they took pictures of our dreams" - "once lost..." - it also has trickier phrasing in general. Maybe my opinion is influenced by the fact I have the range of a 20-year-old girl (logically) but not the technique of one James LaBrie, so I find the trickier song harder.

Yes, but the breathing space is much better in that song, the verse is shorter, and the buildups to the highest notes are easier.  I mean, every singer is different and handles different songs differently (For example, to this day, I don't understand why James struggles with the second half of Voices.  I'm not half the singer he is, and I can nail that.  But for some reason, it just seems to be tough for him), but James even has an easier time with Surrounded than Another Day.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

Yeah. I can usually nail all the stuff in Surrounded, but Another Day has some of the toughest phrasing in high registers this side of Steelheart. It really isn't close in terms of difficulty. In fact, I'd say Surrounded might be the easiest song on I & W to sing (save for Wait For Sleep, which I've never tried).

[MoraWintersoul]

Damn, Another Day is really not that hard.

[wasteland]

Well, they both are positibely impossible for me to sing 

[The Presence of Frenemies]

Damn, Another Day is really not that hard.

Not sure what's tough about Surrounded that Another Day doesn't have, though.

[BlobVanDam]

I LOVE me some Constant Motion.  It currently sits at #30 in my all-time DT discog. ranking.

It most definitely does not belong at the bottom (or is that top?) of this list.

[j]

I don't agree with all of your picks, hound of the boskervilles, but I find myself agreeing with a lot more than I expected.  Both in your top 10 and your bottom 50.  And when I disagree, you almost convince me that I've been wrong for all this time, which is not a comfortable feeling for me.

-J

[?]

Another Day and Surrounded are equally difficult for a shitty singer like me, but I think Another Day might be more challenging for James, because it's been played only once since 2007, while Surrounded was played at basically every show last year and pretty frequently on the SC tour too.

Honestly, I don't understand the hate for TOWHTSTS.

Finally someone who agrees with me!

[bosk1]

hound of the boskervilles

47.  The Answer Lies Within - This is not a "bad song."  But...I mean...how do I say this?  At any given moment, I would rather listen to just about anything else.  Well, not anything else--I mean, if you gave me a Faster Pussycat album and this, and told me I had to pick, I'd got with The Answer Lies Within every single time.  But for the most part, I just feel like this song takes up valuable space on an otherwise stellar album.  I like mellow songs, but this one has nothing for me.

48.  Space-Dye Vest - Wait...how exactly did Space Dye Vest manage to be #48 and not #50?  I am almost as surprised as most of you.  But when I look at my #49 and #50, I have to grudgingly say, "Yeah, as bad as Space Dye Vest is, there are two songs I have to rank lower."  It's a very close call, but the way the distorted guitar is used very subtly for background atmosphere is something I can stretch to call a positive.  But as for why it's ranked so low, I find nothing to like about this song at all.  It feels so melodramatic for no good reason, and the biggest problem is that I am convinced that Kevin Moore actually views this as a serious song rather than a melodramatic song.  I have no problem with melodramatic in the proper context.  But when a songwriter intends a song to be completely serious and deep, but it ends up only being melodramatic and shallow, it just makes everything about the song seem silly and pointless.  This song at one point held the distinction of having the most pointless, childish lyrics of any song I had ever heard.  Then I had the displeasure of seeing a band called Kill Hannah in an opening slot in 2009.  Still, this song isn't far behind.  If they ever played this song live at a show I was at, I would listen and enjoy it and would be thankful to be reminded once again of how thoughtful the band is toward their fans to play something so rare that has become almost a cult classic.  But beyond that, not interested.

[BlobVanDam]

[Full Speed]

Don't really care for Answer Lies Within, but Space Dye Vest is one of my favorites. Top 5 for sure.

[MoraWintersoul]

I would explain how differently I see the melodramatic vs. serious distinction you brought up here but I'll be accused of overemphatizing; let's just say TALW is exactly where I'd put it

[Another_Won]

When Awake first came out and I hear SDV, I thought, "Wow, this doesn't sound like Dream Theater at all."  Today, I still think this.  It really should be classified as a Kevin Moore song.  Just not my thing.

[Rattlehead]

Oh, by the way, bosk. I found something that may be of interest to you 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uMGJFdIGLU

Thanks for posting this, what an awesome performance 

[bosk1]

I can't believe there are only two left to go.   

[?]

TALW is pretty boring, but I wouldn't rank it that low, because I don't react to it the same way as I do to, say, Where Are You Now? or TDEN. It's also better for me not to express how I feel about seeing SDV that low