DT in the studio again!

[GasparXR]

I don't know why they ever stopped using Kevin Shirley, because none of their albums since have sounded anywhere near as good.

Really makes me wonder as well. Maybe MP wanted a more metal sound for the band and thought that Kevin Shirley was not the person for that?

Honestly all the Kevin Shirley mixed albums are probably the best sounding ones.

Totally agree! Falling into Infinity-Train of Thought have some of their best production. Of course, some of SFAM was also mixed by David Bottril, who also did a really great job. If he could do a job on par with this work, I would accept him mixing too.

[Perpetual Change]

Scenes was part Bottril, part Shirley. The Shirley parts sound better.

Shirley *gets* DT, I think. He knows the direction the band need to go sonically, to sound modern while still appealing to classic rock and metal fans. In that sense, I think the post-Shirley albums have been a bit too ambitious, with these absolutely huge wall-of-sound guitars that suit bands like Trivium but really do not do justice to the more intricate DT sound.

[nikatapi]

I don't know why they ever stopped using Kevin Shirley, because none of their albums since have sounded anywhere near as good.

Really makes me wonder as well. Maybe MP wanted a more metal sound for the band and thought that Kevin Shirley was not the person for that?

Honestly all the Kevin Shirley mixed albums are probably the best sounding ones.

I can't see that being the reason, as SDOIT and especially ToT were pretty ballsy sounding. And the first album they did after their last one with Shirley was Octavarium, which is a pretty tame mix. Maybe it's a matter of scheduling?

Yeah i forgot that ToT was mixed by Kevin Shirley, so it could be a matter of scheduling or just DT wanting to try something new in the sound department.

[Perpetual Change]

ToT, while not great sounding, does have a pretty good mix.

[Dream Team]

Scenes was part Bottril, part Shirley. The Shirley parts sound better.

Shirley *gets* DT, I think. He knows the direction the band need to go sonically, to sound modern while still appealing to classic rock and metal fans. In that sense, I think the post-Shirley albums have been a bit too ambitious, with these absolutely huge wall-of-sound guitars that suit bands like Trivium but really do not do justice to the more intricate DT sound.

Yes indeed. JP needs to allow more room in the sonic mix for the other instruments.

[ZirconBlue]

Scenes was part Bottril, part Shirley. The Shirley parts sound better.

I disagree.  I prefer the Bottril mixes of those songs.  Especially since Bottril didn't forget to include any parts.

[BlobVanDam]

Scenes was part Bottril, part Shirley. The Shirley parts sound better.

I disagree.  I prefer the Bottril mixes of those songs.  Especially since Bottril didn't forget to include any parts.

Shirley didn't "forget" anything, he chose to mix certain parts out/differently, with the approval of the band.

[JayOctavarium]

Scenes was part Bottril, part Shirley. The Shirley parts sound better.

I disagree.  I prefer the Bottril mixes of those songs.  Especially since Bottril didn't forget to include any parts.

Shirley didn't "forget" anything, he chose to mix certain parts out/differently, with the approval of the band.

Is the Bottril mix the alternate mix from the making of SFAM? If so... I prefer it.

[BlobVanDam]

Scenes was part Bottril, part Shirley. The Shirley parts sound better.

I disagree.  I prefer the Bottril mixes of those songs.  Especially since Bottril didn't forget to include any parts.

Shirley didn't "forget" anything, he chose to mix certain parts out/differently, with the approval of the band.

Is the Bottril mix the alternate mix from the making of SFAM? If so... I prefer it.

Yeah, they're the entire original Bottril mix. The final album is a mixture of Bottril / Shirley. I do prefer the Bottril mix of Overture 1928, although I don't recall preferring any of the rest. I'm actually listening to it again right now.

[DebraKadabra]

I actually thought the sound was the only good thing about S & A.

WORD.

[ZirconBlue]

Scenes was part Bottril, part Shirley. The Shirley parts sound better.

I disagree.  I prefer the Bottril mixes of those songs.  Especially since Bottril didn't forget to include any parts.

Shirley didn't "forget" anything, he chose to mix certain parts out/differently, with the approval of the band.

No, there's an entire keyboard part that was left entirely out of the mix.  When I get a chance, I'll see if I can dig up the link to him talking about it not being intentional.

[CodyWanKenobi]

I can't wait.

I just feel giddy knowing I could come home from school and find a single from the new album released (unlikely, but possible)

The day that OTBOA was to be released on YouTube, which was a weekend I think, I woke up at the time it was said to be posted just to listen to it.

I was at Disneyland when it was released, and I made my group stop and wait cause I wanted to listen to it on my phone.  They aren't familiar with DT, so when I said I have to listen to a song real quick, they were like "Sure, no problem".. they didn't realize it was 9 mins long. It didn't occur to me to get into a line first, and listen while we were waiting. 

[Sycsa]

I can't wait.

I just feel giddy knowing I could come home from school and find a single from the new album released (unlikely, but possible)

The day that OTBOA was to be released on YouTube, which was a weekend I think, I woke up at the time it was said to be posted just to listen to it.

I was at Disneyland when it was released, and I made my group stop and wait cause I wanted to listen to it on my phone.  They aren't familiar with DT, so when I said I have to listen to a song real quick, they were like "Sure, no problem".. they didn't realize it was 9 mins long. It didn't occur to me to get into a line first, and listen while we were waiting. 

I was making passionate love to my girlfriend at the time of the release and I just left her hanging out to dry and listened to the song...











Nah, that didn't actually happen, but one would need that type of story to top yours. 

[Lucien]

I can't wait.

I just feel giddy knowing I could come home from school and find a single from the new album released (unlikely, but possible)

The day that OTBOA was to be released on YouTube, which was a weekend I think, I woke up at the time it was said to be posted just to listen to it.

I was at Disneyland when it was released, and I made my group stop and wait cause I wanted to listen to it on my phone.  They aren't familiar with DT, so when I said I have to listen to a song real quick, they were like "Sure, no problem".. they didn't realize it was 9 mins long. It didn't occur to me to get into a line first, and listen while we were waiting. 

I was making passionate love to my girlfriend at the time of the release and I just left her hanging out to dry and listened to the song...











Nah, that didn't actually happen, but one would need that type of story to top yours. 

[BlobVanDam]

Scenes was part Bottril, part Shirley. The Shirley parts sound better.

I disagree.  I prefer the Bottril mixes of those songs.  Especially since Bottril didn't forget to include any parts.

Shirley didn't "forget" anything, he chose to mix certain parts out/differently, with the approval of the band.

No, there's an entire keyboard part that was left entirely out of the mix.  When I get a chance, I'll see if I can dig up the link to him talking about it not being intentional.

Cool, I'd like to see that. I know there's also discussion about the mixes on the Metropolis 2000 commentary, iirc? I know there's the keyboard arpeggio in Fatal Tragedy over the choir that was left out, and I remember hearing that Kevin Shirley suggested they take it out, with JR still playing it live. Is that the same keyboard bit you're referring to?

[MoraWintersoul]

Scenes was part Bottril, part Shirley. The Shirley parts sound better.

I disagree.  I prefer the Bottril mixes of those songs.  Especially since Bottril didn't forget to include any parts.

Shirley didn't "forget" anything, he chose to mix certain parts out/differently, with the approval of the band.

No, there's an entire keyboard part that was left entirely out of the mix.  When I get a chance, I'll see if I can dig up the link to him talking about it not being intentional.

Cool, I'd like to see that. I know there's also discussion about the mixes on the Metropolis 2000 commentary, iirc? I know there's the keyboard arpeggio in Fatal Tragedy over the choir that was left out, and I remember hearing that Kevin Shirley suggested they take it out, with JR still playing it live. Is that the same keyboard bit you're referring to?

Now that we're talking about that, I remember they said MP's backing vocs for one entire song on LSFNY (I think it was SDV) were left out but I don't think they clarified whether it was accidental.

[BlobVanDam]

Scenes was part Bottril, part Shirley. The Shirley parts sound better.

I disagree.  I prefer the Bottril mixes of those songs.  Especially since Bottril didn't forget to include any parts.

Shirley didn't "forget" anything, he chose to mix certain parts out/differently, with the approval of the band.

No, there's an entire keyboard part that was left entirely out of the mix.  When I get a chance, I'll see if I can dig up the link to him talking about it not being intentional.

Cool, I'd like to see that. I know there's also discussion about the mixes on the Metropolis 2000 commentary, iirc? I know there's the keyboard arpeggio in Fatal Tragedy over the choir that was left out, and I remember hearing that Kevin Shirley suggested they take it out, with JR still playing it live. Is that the same keyboard bit you're referring to?

Now that we're talking about that, I remember they said MP's backing vocs for one entire song on LSFNY (I think it was SDV) were left out but I don't think they clarified whether it was accidental.

I remember the bit you mean. It's been a while since I've watched it, but I got the impression it wasn't intentional. There were also some bits of MP saying stuff over the mic that got mixed in that he said were unintentionally left in (I'm thinking that was the bit in Home before the keyboard solo?).

[ariich]

Maybe I haven't been active enough on the DT-side for too long, but am I the only one who loves the sound on ADTOE?

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

No i don't have any particular problem with the ADTOE mix other than yes the drums may be a bit too low.

[BlackInk]

I think everything after A Change of Seasons sounds fine.

[wasteland]

Maybe I haven't been active enough on the DT-side for too long, but am I the only one who loves the sound on ADTOE?

I don't either, but everybody say it's bad, and I know nothing about mixing and little about how an album should sound to be "objectively" good. So maybe my ears aren't just calibrated on the objective good. 

[?]

I like the production and mix of ADTOE. The drums could sound better and louder, and it'd be nice to be able to hear the bass in BMUBMD, but overall it sounds decent and certainly better than BC&SL to my ears.

[Kotowboy]

ADToE is quite muddy to me and aside from the clipping - has possibly worse sound than SC.

Which is a shame since up til SC I always associated DT with great sounding albums.

Octavarium is my favourite sounding DT album btw..

[Scorpion]

I think that I'm one of the people that doesn't really care about the production all that much. The only album where the sound is a little grating is WDADU. I never really understand it when people go complaining about intricate sound details, all DT albums sound pretty much fine to me. Then again, I've accepted that I'm in a minority there, but oh well.

And no matter the production, Octavarium would never a good album for me.

[SomeoneLikeHim]

I've gotten more picky with production ever sine I got a good pair of quality headphones 

It's a bit annoying actually.

[TheGreatPretender]

Personally, my problem with ADTOE's sound stems from the overdriven guitar sound that Petrucci used. It just sounds so muddled and drowned. Compare it to his sound on songs like The Mirror.

I've gotten more picky with production ever sine I got a good pair of quality headphones 

It's a bit annoying actually.

I've gotten more picky with production ever since I joined this forum.

[aprilethereal]

Personally, my problem with ADTOE's sound stems from the overdriven guitar sound that Petrucci used. It just sounds so muddled and drowned. Compare it to his sound on songs like The Mirror.

That exactly is my main problem with Train Of Thought. Never had any problems with ADTOE's sound though.

[ZirconBlue]

Scenes was part Bottril, part Shirley. The Shirley parts sound better.

I disagree.  I prefer the Bottril mixes of those songs.  Especially since Bottril didn't forget to include any parts.

Shirley didn't "forget" anything, he chose to mix certain parts out/differently, with the approval of the band.

No, there's an entire keyboard part that was left entirely out of the mix.  When I get a chance, I'll see if I can dig up the link to him talking about it not being intentional.

Cool, I'd like to see that. I know there's also discussion about the mixes on the Metropolis 2000 commentary, iirc? I know there's the keyboard arpeggio in Fatal Tragedy over the choir that was left out, and I remember hearing that Kevin Shirley suggested they take it out, with JR still playing it live. Is that the same keyboard bit you're referring to?

For some reason, I'm drawing a blank on where it is.  I'll have to re-listen to the Bottril mixes.

[ariich]

Maybe I haven't been active enough on the DT-side for too long, but am I the only one who loves the sound on ADTOE?

I don't either, but everybody say it's bad, and I know nothing about mixing and little about how an album should sound to be "objectively" good. So maybe my ears aren't just calibrated on the objective good. 

Don't be snared in the "objectively good" trap. Most complaints are a matter of personal taste. For example, I can hear the drums perfectly fine, so if people would prefer them louder, that's one thing, but it's not a case of right or wrong.

[TheGreatPretender]

Don't be snared in the "objectively good" trap. Most complaints are a matter of personal taste. For example, I can hear the drums perfectly fine, so if people would prefer them louder, that's one thing, but it's not a case of right or wrong.

[ariich]

Glad someone picked up on that.

My point was serious though.

[goo-goo]

Maybe I haven't been active enough on the DT-side for too long, but am I the only one who loves the sound on ADTOE?

I don't either, but everybody say it's bad, and I know nothing about mixing and little about how an album should sound to be "objectively" good. So maybe my ears aren't just calibrated on the objective good. 

Don't be snared in the "objectively good" trap. Most complaints are a matter of personal taste. For example, I can hear the drums perfectly fine, so if people would prefer them louder, that's one thing, but it's not a case of right or wrong.

There's three main issues (at least to my hearing) with ADTOE, and I think most of us will agree at least on a) and c).
a) The drums are too low, but the drums when MP was in the band, where always mixed higher. We were used to this louder drum sound so it was kind of a big deal when ADTOE was released.
b) The drums again, are maybe too low since Mangini's cymbal work  is barely listenable. There's a lot of small nuances that got lost in the low mix (or low cymbal volume when mixing).
c) The guitar sounds very thin. If you listen it to the massive sound on Black Clouds and then listen to ADTOE, you will definitely hear that the "guitar power" got lost somewhere. The ADTOE guitar sounds like there was a blanket on the speakers.

Other than that, I was pretty pleased with the overall sound of the record. You can hear Myung which was nice for a change, the vocals are very warm and crisp, and JR's work is pretty good as well.

[TheGreatPretender]

There's three main issues (at least to my hearing) with ADTOE, and I think most of us will agree at least on a) and c).
a) The drums are too low, but the drums when MP was in the band, where always mixed higher. We were used to this louder drum sound so it was kind of a big deal when ADTOE was released.
b) The drums again, are maybe too low since Mangini's cymbal work  is barely listenable. There's a lot of small nuances that got lost in the low mix (or low cymbal volume when mixing).
c) The guitar sounds very thin. If you listen it to the massive sound on Black Clouds and then listen to ADTOE, you will definitely hear that the "guitar power" got lost somewhere. The ADTOE guitar sounds like there was a blanket on the speakers.

Other than that, I was pretty pleased with the overall sound of the record. You can hear Myung which was nice for a change, the vocals are very warm and crisp, and JR's work is pretty good as well.

I definitely agree on C, mostly with the actual overdriven guitar though. Like, the clean, more acoustic sound that he used at the beginning of OTBOA and TITL sounds just fine. But yeah, when it's in 'Metal' mode, it sounded muffled.

[wasteland]

Ah, by the way, Eren Basbug sends his regards :bolton: 

Seriously, I spent some time talking with him yesterday, and of course I X-rayed him with question he woldn't answer. He only said that the music is very good and that he is quite positive that everyone will like it.

AAAnd, he's a huge fan of our PLS COAM 2 INDONESIA jokes 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

KEIV MONRE AND MIKE PORNEY DURM GODS........ KONSERT SOON............DT