DT in the studio again!

[Zydar]

[nikatapi]

I really hope they don't ruin the album on the mastering front, hopefully we'll get a decent dynamic range, and a great sounding album overall. I'm very excited to hear a single whenever it comes out.

[Nefarius]

...if Nef's avatar is him...

Yep, that's me...

I really hope they don't ruin the album on the mastering front, hopefully we'll get a decent dynamic range, and a great sounding album overall.

That's what I am afraid of too, since so many great artists and great engineers seem to be blissfully ignorant and "make it fuckin' loud" the way the label wants it. Just see what happened to the new Queensrÿche. I wouldn't have expected them and Jimbo (!) to deliver a master that's so over the top there are distortions everywhere. DT is a band with such a huge dynamic range - sometimes within one song and certainly across an album. So the album should reflect that, especially considering there's an orchestra involved this time around. Please let the music breathe and don't brick it to death.

Greetings...
Nef

[Aythesryche]

I think JP has a pretty good ear for things. JP seems to think it's good, so I'm sure the albums sound quality will in fact be superb. I'm not worried about it in the slightest.  If anything, I'm more pumped.

[nikatapi]

I think JP has a pretty good ear for things. JP seems to think it's good, so I'm sure the albums sound quality will in fact be superb. I'm not worried about it in the slightest.  If anything, I'm more pumped.

Well if we take ADTOE as an example, i hope the other members have a say as well (especially Mike) since i wasn't too fond of ADTOE's mix.
I really hope we get some clean and powerful cymbal sound this time, there is so much great stuff in ADTOE that goes unnoticed because of the weak cymbal mix.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well if we take ADTOE as an example, i hope the other members have a say as well (especially Mike) since i wasn't too fond of ADTOE's mix.
I really hope we get some clean and powerful cymbal sound this time, there is so much great stuff in ADTOE that goes unnoticed because of the weak cymbal mix.

Well, didn't both Mike and JR say that it sounds great? Or at least JR did. So we do have someone to back it up.

[nikatapi]

Well, didn't both Mike and JR say that it sounds great? Or at least JR did. So we do have someone to back it up.

Τhey wouldn't say that it sounds like shit, that's for sure. It's mostly PR talk i think, not that i want to discredit their words, but i'll wait to hear it for myself before getting excited.

[BlobVanDam]

Well, didn't both Mike and JR say that it sounds great? Or at least JR did. So we do have someone to back it up.

Τhey wouldn't say that it sounds like shit, that's for sure. It's mostly PR talk i think, not that i want to discredit their words, but i'll wait to hear it for myself before getting excited.

This.
I completely disregard all comments like this from bands. It's just generic studio update speak.
I don't get excited when any band says their album is their best, and sounds amazing, because every band says these things for every single album they release. That doesn't mean they're wrong, it just means I'll wait and judge it for myself rather than take their word for it. I'm hoping it sounds great though.

And also, ADTOE.

[SystematicThought]

I would love to read a JR interview where he is brutally honest.

HOW DOES THE NEW ALBUM SOUND?

JR: Meh, I think it sounds like complete shit to be completely honest with you. Yeah, I mean, I feel like we could have done better with it, but by the time I realized that is was sounding like dog-shit, the album was already done, so I figured, fuck it, we'll do better in 2015. So yeah, I guess the new album sounds like shit. The mixing won't help and they'll probably master it too loud and piss off GlassDream over on MP's forum and the psychos at DTF

[Aythesryche]

Well, didn't both Mike and JR say that it sounds great? Or at least JR did. So we do have someone to back it up.

Τhey wouldn't say that it sounds like shit, that's for sure. It's mostly PR talk i think, not that i want to discredit their words, but i'll wait to hear it for myself before getting excited.

So, if JP did in fact think the album sounded bad for any reason, he wouldn't speak up about it? Remember, this is a band that prides themselves in having genuine artistic freedom to create something that's completely designed from beginning to completion by the band. If it's simply PR talk, then that could suggest JP doesn't really care much about the sound quality of the album. Doesn't add up based on what I know of JP and the other guys.

[BlobVanDam]

Well, didn't both Mike and JR say that it sounds great? Or at least JR did. So we do have someone to back it up.

Τhey wouldn't say that it sounds like shit, that's for sure. It's mostly PR talk i think, not that i want to discredit their words, but i'll wait to hear it for myself before getting excited.

So, if JP did in fact think the album sounded bad for any reason, he wouldn't speak up about it? Remember, this is a band that prides themselves in having genuine artistic freedom to create something that's completely designed from beginning to completion by the band. If it's simply PR talk, then that could suggest JP doesn't really care much about the sound quality of the album. Doesn't add up based on what I know of JP and the other guys.

And have DT not said the same comments about all of their recent albums? And what has the fan opinion of a lot of those been in that regard?

I'm not saying the band is lying, I'd be worried if they didn't believe their new album sounded great, it's just that any band is probably too close to an album to judge it as harshly as the fanbase, and they're not sound engineers, they're musicians. I doubt any of them are going to say "Hey, that's mastered a bit loud, can we keep it to at least 12dB range?" or anything like that.

[Cyclopssss]

Left to right:  Frank Solomon, Maddy (JP's guitar tech), Rich Chycki, JP, Random Dude #1, Random Dude #2

Dude! it´s the new DT! ´We figured what the heck, I´m the most important guy in the band, so I just fired the rest´!

[nikatapi]

Well, didn't both Mike and JR say that it sounds great? Or at least JR did. So we do have someone to back it up.

Τhey wouldn't say that it sounds like shit, that's for sure. It's mostly PR talk i think, not that i want to discredit their words, but i'll wait to hear it for myself before getting excited.

So, if JP did in fact think the album sounded bad for any reason, he wouldn't speak up about it? Remember, this is a band that prides themselves in having genuine artistic freedom to create something that's completely designed from beginning to completion by the band. If it's simply PR talk, then that could suggest JP doesn't really care much about the sound quality of the album. Doesn't add up based on what I know of JP and the other guys.

Ι think you might have misunderstood me. I didn't say that the guys at DT don't care about the sound quality, nor that they are not genuine i what they say.

I'm sure JP thought that ADTOE sounded good since he was in charge as a producer, it's just that his opinion is kind of irrelevant to me because i thought that ADTOE could have sounded much much better.

Sound quality is not always something that is perceived in the same way by everyone. Many people (and many of my friends) can't tell the difference between a crappy mastering with clipping and distortion and a clean dynamic sound. So given the history of the band especially with recent albums (ADTOE, SC) i'm not sure that statements like "it sounds great" from members of the band are of much importance to me.

Sorry if i sound like a douche or something, i'm not bashing DT or any members and i'm sure that they try to make the best album musically and from a sound quality perspective, it's just that i really want to get a great sounding album to elevate the musical elements and ideas, as well as the amazing musicianship.

[Moor]

JP interview to RR 2/8/2012 speaking of ADTOE:

"... We wanted this album to be sonically interesting. I knew from the beginning, I had a dream of having Andy Wallace mix it, and that dream came true. We wanted it to be a real hi-fi, epic, cinematic experience. So when we went in to write, we had it in mind that we were going to take our time with chord progressions and melodic elements and vocal range and the general sound of the instruments and things like that. It was definitely a concerted and focused effort to keep the compositional qualities as high as we possibly could."

However, the outcome was ... 

[SystematicThought]

I guess I just don't know what happened with ADTOE. The more I listen to it, the more disappointed I am with it. The drums sound like they were mic'd up in studio and they put the drums all the way in Boston and then recorded. They sound so far away, another guy here put it much better overall. They put a microphone at the mouth of the cave and put the band in the back of the cave.

When Mangini does double kicks, I should feel like I'm getting punched in the gut, instead it felt like someone threw a twig at me.

[The Stray Seed]

JP interview to RR 2/8/2012 speaking of ADTOE:

"... We wanted this album to be sonically interesting. I knew from the beginning, I had a dream of having Andy Wallace mix it, and that dream came true. We wanted it to be a real hi-fi, epic, cinematic experience. So when we went in to write, we had it in mind that we were going to take our time with chord progressions and melodic elements and vocal range and the general sound of the instruments and things like that. It was definitely a concerted and focused effort to keep the compositional qualities as high as we possibly could."

However, the outcome was ... 

Question for experts: is it possible that the mix was good and they screwed it up with a wrong mastering? Just asking.

[BlackInk]

A Dramatic Turn of Events sounds good except for the drums. Which I don't really blame on the mixing or mastering for. I mean, not that it's bad at all, the drums on ADToE are fine, it's just that from what I've heard so far I prefer Portnoy's more dynamic style of playing to Mangini's style.

[Aythesryche]

Well, didn't both Mike and JR say that it sounds great? Or at least JR did. So we do have someone to back it up.

Τhey wouldn't say that it sounds like shit, that's for sure. It's mostly PR talk i think, not that i want to discredit their words, but i'll wait to hear it for myself before getting excited.

So, if JP did in fact think the album sounded bad for any reason, he wouldn't speak up about it? Remember, this is a band that prides themselves in having genuine artistic freedom to create something that's completely designed from beginning to completion by the band. If it's simply PR talk, then that could suggest JP doesn't really care much about the sound quality of the album. Doesn't add up based on what I know of JP and the other guys.

Ι think you might have misunderstood me. I didn't say that the guys at DT don't care about the sound quality, nor that they are not genuine i what they say.

I'm sure JP thought that ADTOE sounded good since he was in charge as a producer, it's just that his opinion is kind of irrelevant to me because i thought that ADTOE could have sounded much much better.

Sound quality is not always something that is perceived in the same way by everyone. Many people (and many of my friends) can't tell the difference between a crappy mastering with clipping and distortion and a clean dynamic sound. So given the history of the band especially with recent albums (ADTOE, SC) i'm not sure that statements like "it sounds great" from members of the band are of much importance to me.

Sorry if i sound like a douche or something, i'm not bashing DT or any members and i'm sure that they try to make the best album musically and from a sound quality perspective, it's just that i really want to get a great sounding album to elevate the musical elements and ideas, as well as the amazing musicianship.

You didn't come off sounding like a douche at all lol. Just two guys having a discussion as far as I can see. I also see where you're coming from and I can understand. Perhaps I have an odd sense of what sounds good and what doesn't to me. What's more, oddly enough, I thought ADTOE sounded great through a good audio system.

[Moor]

I guess I just don't know what happened with ADTOE. The more I listen to it, the more disappointed I am with it. The drums sound like they were mic'd up in studio and they put the drums all the way in Boston and then recorded. They sound so far away, another guy here put it much better overall. They put a microphone at the mouth of the cave and put the band in the back of the cave.

When Mangini does double kicks, I should feel like I'm getting punched in the gut, instead it felt like someone threw a twig at me.

I have the same feeling, and what makes me sad is that we are talking about a great album with awesome drumming, but with no chocolate taste at all 

[ariich]

A Dramatic Turn of Events sounds good except for the drums. Which I don't really blame on the mixing or mastering for. I mean, not that it's bad at all, the drums on ADToE are fine, it's just that from what I've heard so far I prefer Portnoy's more dynamic style of playing to Mangini's style.

Basically, this. I honestly don't know what people are complaining about with the ADTOE sound, I think it's one of their slickest sounding albums.

I also don't really remember much complaining about it when the album came out.

[BlobVanDam]

JP interview to RR 2/8/2012 speaking of ADTOE:

"... We wanted this album to be sonically interesting. I knew from the beginning, I had a dream of having Andy Wallace mix it, and that dream came true. We wanted it to be a real hi-fi, epic, cinematic experience. So when we went in to write, we had it in mind that we were going to take our time with chord progressions and melodic elements and vocal range and the general sound of the instruments and things like that. It was definitely a concerted and focused effort to keep the compositional qualities as high as we possibly could."

However, the outcome was ... 

Question for experts: is it possible that the mix was good and they screwed it up with a wrong mastering? Just asking.

It's definitely a mixing issue. I think the album was mastered fairly transparently in a way that didn't affect the sound of the album much (aside from the compression, which I was happy with).

[wolven74]

A Dramatic Turn of Events sounds good except for the drums. Which I don't really blame on the mixing or mastering for. I mean, not that it's bad at all, the drums on ADToE are fine, it's just that from what I've heard so far I prefer Portnoy's more dynamic style of playing to Mangini's style.

Basically, this. I honestly don't know what people are complaining about with the ADTOE sound, I think it's one of their slickest sounding albums.

I also don't really remember much complaining about it when the album came out.

I find it odd that so many people have said that over time they've been more and more disappointed with ADTOE. For me it's the exact opposite. When I first heard it I was appreciative, but a little let down by how tinny the drums sounded, how simple. I was used to MP being right in my face, the drums being on top of the mix. I was used to really intricate symbol patterns and bass drum patterns that laid a foundation for a song, they didn't do what everyone else was doing. Overall first listen... meh

Then as I listened to it over time I began to hear the intricacies of Mangini's playing. How each hand was doing something completely independent of the other, and each foot had a really intricate pattern that sometimes was totally contradictory to what the hands were doing. It was amazing. And though I still thought the drums were farther in the mix than they should be, I could still hear them just fine. I think my prejudice was simply because for so many years MP was so far in front of the mix that I'd grown used to having everything else a little farther back.

And honestly, I think everybody shines on ADTOE. And each maestro has his place comfortably carved out for him. The keyboards sound brilliant, the guitars have a great clean, dreamy sound and a brutal crunch without being overpowering. The bass is loud enough to be heard, but just enough so to lay down a bed for JP and JR. The vocals are clear (almost too clear, actually--I think JLB took it kinda easy on this one)

Its not a perfect record, by any means, but for a band gaining a new, untested member it was really a great outing all the way around.

At least I thought so....after a few listens.

Now I can't fucking wait to hear what happens when they let the genie out of the bottle and let bears have their cake and eat it too.

[serrano]

Funny how JP's chocolate cake description seems only to apply to the studio sound, if i were to compare his live sound setup it would be like this:

Since i obviously can not use multiple layers then i take the chocolate cover, place a f**cking brick inside (crank up the gain) and throw this at the audience, bam!

I would love to hear the brutal sound he had on the last tour in DT12, even his lead sound was far from delicate if you compare it to ADToE studio.

[aprilethereal]

symbol patterns

Sorry. I just found that funny.

[AngelBack]

ADTOE mix:  In fairness, when I listen to the album on my stereo in my man cave, it sounds amazing.  I have about $6000.00 in Musical Fidelity components and Klipsch speakers and it is mixed amazingly well for that rig.  Bass, drums and cymbals are all distinct and at a proper sound level and you get to hear all the nuances JP intended (when at a moderate volume).  The problem is that not many people listen to music thru high end sound systems anymore.  In my car or with earbuds and certainly thru laptop/desktop type speakers, the mix falls apart. 

I am sure the album is mixed on high end equipment but that just not translate to the technology used by most people these days.  I dont know if there is a middle ground where the sound is optimum thru the full range of delivery systems, but if you get the chance, listen to ADTOE on a good 2 or 2.1 system, you will find a lot of music on ADTOE you may not have heard before.

[Moor]

ADTOE mix:  In fairness, when I listen to the album on my stereo in my man cave, it sounds amazing.  I have about $6000.00 in Musical Fidelity components and Klipsch speakers and it is mixed amazingly well for that rig.  Bass, drums and cymbals are all distinct and at a proper sound level and you get to hear all the nuances JP intended (when at a moderate volume).  The problem is that not many people listen to music thru high end sound systems anymore.  In my car or with earbuds and certainly thru laptop/desktop type speakers, the mix falls apart. 

I am sure the album is mixed on high end equipment but that just not translate to the technology used by most people these days.  I dont know if there is a middle ground where the sound is optimum thru the full range of delivery systems, but if you get the chance, listen to ADTOE on a good 2 or 2.1 system, you will find a lot of music on ADTOE you may not have heard before.

Come on .... for 6,000$ I will bring the band to play in my backyard and surely be satisfied with the sound 

[BlobVanDam]

I only ever listen to ADTOE in lossless on my studio monitor headphones through my audiophile soundcard, and it's a mess of a mix.

The drums are raw and dry, with no noticeable EQ'ing so they fit nicely into the mix, or to cut through at the right frequencies. Everything else shows the same problems, and for most of the album the bass and guitar way oversaturate the lower/mid frequencies to the point of sounding muddy and unpleasant, while the tinny drums don't cut through at all, in either the lower frequencies for the bass/snare, or the high frequencies for the cymbals and hats, making the album sound lifeless and flat.
There are several little clicks and pops and noises over the album that show a lack of careful editing, and the low pass filter on the vocals in TITL is overdone to the point of it sounding like JLB gave his vocals over the telephone. Higher end equipment just highlights the faults and roughness of the mixing.
I think a poorer setup would actually be forgiving to this album.

[Bolsters]

ADTOE mix:  In fairness, when I listen to the album on my stereo in my man cave, it sounds amazing.  I have about $6000.00 in Musical Fidelity components and Klipsch speakers and it is mixed amazingly well for that rig.  Bass, drums and cymbals are all distinct and at a proper sound level and you get to hear all the nuances JP intended (when at a moderate volume).  The problem is that not many people listen to music thru high end sound systems anymore.  In my car or with earbuds and certainly thru laptop/desktop type speakers, the mix falls apart. 

I am sure the album is mixed on high end equipment but that just not translate to the technology used by most people these days.  I dont know if there is a middle ground where the sound is optimum thru the full range of delivery systems, but if you get the chance, listen to ADTOE on a good 2 or 2.1 system, you will find a lot of music on ADTOE you may not have heard before.

Oh, well that explains why I'm not a big fan of the mix on ADTOE then. I only have $5,990 worth of "musical fidelity components".

[Podaar]

 

I knew I shouldn't have gotten rid of my Klipsch sound system for my computer!! Damn Bose system does nothing for ADToE!

[dparrott]

I would love to read a JR interview where he is brutally honest.

HOW DOES THE NEW ALBUM SOUND?

JR: Meh, I think it sounds like complete shit to be completely honest with you. Yeah, I mean, I feel like we could have done better with it, but by the time I realized that is was sounding like dog-shit, the album was already done, so I figured, fuck it, we'll do better in 2015. So yeah, I guess the new album sounds like shit.

Heh...Noel Gallagher has said things close to that about Oasis albums. 

[atmyne]

I have nothing to live for anymore....

[Kotowboy]

I would love to read a JR interview where he is brutally honest.

HOW DOES THE NEW ALBUM SOUND?

JR: Meh, I think it sounds like complete shit to be completely honest with you. Yeah, I mean, I feel like we could have done better with it, but by the time I realized that is was sounding like dog-shit, the album was already done, so I figured, fuck it, we'll do better in 2015. So yeah, I guess the new album sounds like shit.

Heh...Noel Gallagher has said things close to that about Oasis albums.

Yeah he described Be Here Now as Nothing new.. Just Pub Rock Bollocks

And he said Standing On The Shoulder Of Giants had two shit songs on it

This was on release day as well...

[dparrott]

BHN is my favorite album from them, so much better than Morning Glory.  I agree with him about SOTSOG though.  That's when Liam's voice started going south.

[Grizz]

I would love to hear the brutal sound he had on the last tour in DT12, even his lead sound was far from delicate if you compare it to ADToE studio.

If you're near the wall in a venue with subpar acoustics (IE the Paramount in Huntington, NY), his guitar sound is pretty much all you can hear.

[Lowdz]

I only ever listen to ADTOE in lossless on my studio monitor headphones through my audiophile soundcard, and it's a mess of a mix.

The drums are raw and dry, with no noticeable EQ'ing so they fit nicely into the mix, or to cut through at the right frequencies. Everything else shows the same problems, and for most of the album the bass and guitar way oversaturate the lower/mid frequencies to the point of sounding muddy and unpleasant, while the tinny drums don't cut through at all, in either the lower frequencies for the bass/snare, or the high frequencies for the cymbals and hats, making the album sound lifeless and flat.
There are several little clicks and pops and noises over the album that show a lack of careful editing, and the low pass filter on the vocals in TITL is overdone to the point of it sounding like JLB gave his vocals over the telephone. Higher end equipment just highlights the faults and roughness of the mixing.
I think a poorer setup would actually be forgiving to this album.

I honestly don't hear any of that, and for that I'm really glad. Sounds fine on my £20 boom box, in the car and through my mp3 player. Mind you I grew up in an era where pristine sound wasn't that important. Sure I have some albums that sound awful to the point of being ruined and many that could be better, but I'm just not that fussy and have never had the audiophile equipment to appreciate the difference. Mind you, my ears are getting old now so it might just be that 

edit- just a quick thought- did people take more time with the mix and mastering in the past? These things seem to be done alot quicker these days (to keep costs down I suppose)