Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[jakepriest]

I would agree as DT has 5/9 throwaway tracks for me.
That isn't the case with any other album other than FII though.

[GasparXR]

I think the whole FAS debate hits at my larger, more comprehensive controversial opinion.

First, my controverisal theory, which is the premise behind my controversial opinion: Ever since the band started self-producing, they've been under the impression that every song they record during a given album session deserves to be on that album.

Now, for the opinion: This has lead overall to less consistently good albums, and more albums with throwaway tracks. For something like "False Awakening Suite", I guess it's cool on the live intro tape, but did we really need it on an album that (I think) is already too long? Does it add value to the album? Would it have been better rolled out live, and then maybe released on a live album? My opinion is"No, No, Yes", respectively, but it doesn't matter - DT wrote FAS while they were recording DT12, so of course, they're going to include it.

DT just doesn't seem to believe that any of their songs should be left on the cutting room floor. To me, that's frustrating, but I totally respect and understand that some fans love DT's approach. For better  or worse, they pile it all on the plate every single time, and while I'd prefer shorter and more concise albums, I can see why other fans love that DT put everything on the table.

Unfortunately, it seems pretty clear to me that they think everything they write for each album is exactly what they wanted out of it as a result of self-producing. Obviously, you are free to have your own opinion of their albums, but I don't think it's fair to try and justify your opinions using what you think the band thinks during the writing phase, when you don't even have to justify your opinion in the first place.

EDIT: I think I misunderstood your post a bit, so feel free to disregard this post. XD

[Perpetual Change]

I'm prefacing my opinion one what DT do with my "theory" that it is indeed what they do because I don't want to give others the impression that what I'm saying is verifiable knowledge. To ME, personally, it seems obvious that that is what they do. But I'm not gonna post my opinions from the stance of being a DT authority.

[GasparXR]

I'm prefacing my opinion one what DT do with my "theory" that it is indeed what they do because I don't want to give others the impression that what I'm saying is verifiable knowledge. To ME, personally, it seems obvious that that is what they do. But I'm not gonna post my opinions from the stance of being a DT authority.

That's what I thought right after I posted and read your post again, I think I skipped a couple words or something and it made it seem like you were doing just that. But now I understand what you mean.

[The Holy Tune]

Hello people. My first post on a pretty tough topic, but here we go!

-ADTOE is the worst album they ever created(though Outcry and BAI are great, showing the real spirit of the album)
-I love the era starting from ToT to ADTOE
-FII demos are WAY better than the final product
-TEI can easily be among the best 10 songs
-TSF is the best 12SS song, way more complex and meaningful than TGP
-I&W is somehow overrated, I personally enjoy Awake more than it
-The Dance of Eternity is the second best song, after 8VM
-Ministry of Lost Souls is the third after those
-Another Hand/Killing Hand LATM is JLB's best performance he has ever done
-Derek Sherinian could be DT's best ever keyboardist if FII came out as it was in the demos, though I don't really like the guy
-Jordan never overdoes the previous songs on live performances

There you go, enjoy ^^

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Most of that is wrong.





Welcome to the forum, bro.

[The Holy Tune]

Most of that is wrong.





Welcome to the forum, bro.

Eh, everyone has some opinions to say, either they are right or wrong

Thanks for the welcome

[jakepriest]

Hello people. My first post on a pretty tough topic, but here we go!

-ADTOE is the worst album they ever created(though Outcry and BAI are great, showing the real spirit of the album)
-I love the era starting from ToT to ADTOE
-FII demos are WAY better than the final product
-TEI can easily be among the best 10 songs
-TSF is the best 12SS song, way more complex and meaningful than TGP
-I&W is somehow overrated, I personally enjoy Awake more than it
-The Dance of Eternity is the second best song, after 8VM
-Ministry of Lost Souls is the third after those
-Another Hand/Killing Hand LATM is JLB's best performance he has ever done
-Derek Sherinian could be DT's best ever keyboardist if FII came out as it was in the demos, though I don't really like the guy
-Jordan never overdoes the previous songs on live performances

There you go, enjoy ^^

wat
Sure.
I wouldn't agree. I don't like You Or Me or the TAMP demo that much.
TEI is awesome but not top 10 material in my eyes.
Definitely agree. TSF rocks. 
I don't enjoy a lot of Images and Words, Awake is a top 3 album.
Both great songs, not top 2 though.
No.
I don't like listening to live versions without video so wouldn't know.
No.
Agree.

[The Holy Tune]

I read that most people really favor ADTOE. I honestly want to learn what's really good about it. Hope you guys can enlighten me

[jakepriest]

I've really disliked ADToE before coming to this forum, but ever since then it's been one of the only albums that I can listen to without skipping songs. It has the perfect mix of ballads and heavy songs.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I read that most people really favor ADTOE. I honestly want to learn what's really good about it. Hope you guys can enlighten me

It either just clicks with you or it doesn't. Different strokes as they say. To me, it's a mid-tier DT album (though mid-tier for DT is still amazing), so I like ADTOE a lot. It really only boasts one song that I just can't listen to (BMU,BMD), while the rest of the album ranges from solid (On the Backs of Angels) to excellent (Breaking All Illusions). That's just me though. Others will undoubtedly have different reasons why they enjoy the album.

[TheGreatPretender]

I think the whole FAS debate hits at my larger, more comprehensive controversial opinion.

First, my controverisal theory, which is the premise behind my controversial opinion: Ever since the band started self-producing, they've been under the impression that every song they record during a given album session deserves to be on that album.

Now, for the opinion: This has lead overall to less consistently good albums, and more albums with throwaway tracks. For something like "False Awakening Suite", I guess it's cool on the live intro tape, but did we really need it on an album that (I think) is already too long? Does it add value to the album? Would it have been better rolled out live, and then maybe released on a live album? My opinion is"No, No, Yes", respectively, but it doesn't matter - DT wrote FAS while they were recording DT12, so of course, they're going to include it.

DT just doesn't seem to believe that any of their songs should be left on the cutting room floor. To me, that's frustrating, but I totally respect and understand that some fans love DT's approach. For better  or worse, they pile it all on the plate every single time, and while I'd prefer shorter and more concise albums, I can see why other fans love that DT put everything on the table.

I generally disagree with all of that. As far as the consistency of their albums goes, I'd say they've always had pretty much the same ratio of "less than amazing" songs. (I'm not going to call them throw away tracks, since I still think most of them are pretty great, just not as great as DT's best.) But if we must refer to them as "throw away tracks" then I'd say WDADU, Awake and FII have had just as many throw away tracks as anything that came afterwards.

[jakepriest]

Awake and SFAM are the only two albums without any weak or "throwaway" tracks imho.

[Sycsa]

Awake and SFAM are the only two albums without any weak or "throwaway" tracks imho.

Agreed about SFAM, but there are about 4-5 songs on Awake that I skip more often than not. For me, the only other DT album with no filler tracks is DT12.

[Zook]

Awake is perfect. Even the bonus track is pretty good.

I agree that the fiddle solo on Images and Words is filler and brings the album down.

[Lucidity]

Awake and SFAM are the only two albums without any weak or "throwaway" tracks imho.

Agreed about SFAM, but there are about 4-5 songs on Awake that I skip more often than not. For me, the only other DT album with no filler tracks is DT12.

I'd say that SDOIT doesn't have any filler tracks.

[BlobVanDam]

-ADTOE is the worst album they ever created(though Outcry and BAI are great, showing the real spirit of the album)
-I love the era starting from ToT to ADTOE
-FII demos are WAY better than the final product
-TEI can easily be among the best 10 songs
-TSF is the best 12SS song, way more complex and meaningful than TGP
-I&W is somehow overrated, I personally enjoy Awake more than it
-The Dance of Eternity is the second best song, after 8VM
-Ministry of Lost Souls is the third after those
-Another Hand/Killing Hand LATM is JLB's best performance he has ever done
-Derek Sherinian could be DT's best ever keyboardist if FII came out as it was in the demos, though I don't really like the guy
-Jordan never overdoes the previous songs on live performances

There you go, enjoy ^^

1. Pretty close, but WDADU will always win the worst album contest.
2. Nothing wrong with that.
3. Nope, the final album ended up better in every way, and the songs that got left off deserved to stay there.
4. It's a great straightforward metal song, although they definitely have more than 10 better
5. There's nothing meaningful about rehashing better songs, and TSF is trying and failing to be as awesome as TGP.
6. Awake is much more overrated than IaW.
7. Kinda crazy, but better than hating it I guess.
8. See above.
9. It is pretty awesome.
10. Just no.

Welcome to the forum!

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

WDADU will never be the worst DT album in a universe where TOT exists.

[BlobVanDam]

ITNOG alone smashes anything from WDADU, and the rest of the album is good too!

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

ITNOG is probably my least favorite DT song.

[TheGreatPretender]

ITNOG alone smashes anything from WDADU, and the rest of the album is good too!

Agreed.

Honestly, I think Charlie Dominici gave WDADU such a different sound and different style, that I barely consider it a DT album. James LaBrie was a major game changer for DT and changed their dynamics entirely. DT wouldn't be what it is without him.

[Jaffa]

ITNOG is probably my least favorite DT song.

That streak of us agreeing on things just came to a crashing halt.   

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Sorry bro. I just don't like it. The melodies do nothing for me, and when there's almost nothing in it I like, it's so freaking long.

[Jaffa]

No worries.    For me, ITNOG is a top ten DT song, and Train of Thought is my second favorite DT album. 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

To be fair, I still like the album. As I Am, Endless Sacrifice, and This Dying Soul are all fantastic, and Vacant is quite lovely.

[Lucien]

And dat SoC solo 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I've listened to SoC many times, and I still can't remember anything from it. I just tune out, only to brought back when ITNOG starts. I then change songs.

[Lucien]

SoC gets in my head every time I listen to it. I guess some ear worms just don't like some people's ears

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

True. I been shocked when I've played what I consider very catchy music to people, and they have almost no reaction to it at all. Different strokes and all that, I suppose.

[BlobVanDam]

ITNOG is probably my least favorite DT song.

Come on, that has to be an exaggeration! What about (insert any WDADU song here), PoW, Never Enough, YNM, YOM, BMS, TALW, IWBY, TBOT, BMUBMD, (anything else DTF doesn't like for whatever reason).
ITNOG is amazing. Easily top 10 for me, probably top 5.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

ITNOG is probably my least favorite DT song.

Come on, that has to be an exaggeration! What about (insert any WDADU song here), PoW, Never Enough, YNM, YOM, BMS, TALW, IWBY, TBOT, BMUBMD, (anything else DTF doesn't like for whatever reason).
ITNOG is amazing. Easily top 10 for me, probably top 5.

Honestly, I don't think it's an exaggeration.

First, I actually love PoW. Come at me.   Never Enough is pretty cool, I dig James' vocals. You Not Me is an inoffensive, catchy song. It's not great, but it's neither long nor bad enough for me to bear it any ill will. You Or Me I haven't heard, but I wouldn't really consider it since it's a demo. Burning My Soul is awesome, I love it.

TALW, IWBY, both good, short songs. Not fantastic, but pretty nice. I love The Best Of Times, and BMUBMD isn't that horrible.

ITNOG is killed for me by melodies I don't like, instrumentals I don't like, and being SO LONG (at least, it seems that way since I don't really enjoy much of it). I will commend the lyrics, though, they're quite good.

Commence Blob rage.

[Zook]

Hey Blob, I was unaware of your dislike for WDADU. Is this something new?

[BlobVanDam]

I won't rage. I'm just going to assume you're clearly joking, as ITNOG is obviously one of the best things DT has ever done.

And also you're off my Christmas card list for this year. You're going to have to live with that.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

[GasparXR]

I won't rage. I'm just going to assume you're clearly joking, as ITNOG is obviously one of the best things DT has ever done.

And also you're off my Christmas card list for this year. You're going to have to live with that.

Train of Thought is one my least favourite DT albums, but ITNOG is one of my favourite songs. Similar with BC&SL and TCOT.