Rolling Stone ranked SFAM #1 prog album?

[Super Dude]

This is news to me:

https://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news/dream-theater-top-all-time-prog-poll/

Dream Theater have come top in a poll of Rolling Stone readers to identify the best prog rock albums of all time – leading home a list including Rush, Pink Floyd, Genesis, Yes and King Crimson.

The publication admits it received "a ridiculous amount of votes" for 1999 album Metropolis Part 2: Scenes From a Memory – the first to feature Dream Theater's most successful lineup to date of singer James LaBrie, guitarist John Petrucci, bassist John Myung, drummer Mike Portnoy and keyboardist Jordan Rudess.

Rush's 2112 came second, followed by Close to the Edge by Yes and Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon. The winning record was also the most recent release, with the rest of the list made up of seven from the 1970s and one each from the 1960s and 1980s.

Rolling Stone says: "Dream Theater posted this poll on their website – a totally kosher move, but it resulted in a ridiculous amount of votes. They are one of the few prog groups to start after the seventies and gain a massive global following. Unlike the rest of the groups here, they are a progressive metal group."

Rolling Stone's top 10 favourite prog albums


1. Dream Theater: Metropolos Part 2: Scenes From a Memory (1999)
2. Rush: 2112 (1976)
3. Yes: Close to the Edge (1972)
4. Pink Floyd: The Dark Side of the Moon (1973)
5. Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974)
6. King Crimson: In the Court of the Crimson King (1969)
7. Genesis: Selling England by the Pound (1973)
8. Rush: Hemispheres (1978)
9. King Crimson: Red (1974)
10. Rush: Moving Pictures (1981)

Maybe this has been addressed, and I'm just late to the party, as usual.

[robwebster]

It has!

Seem to remember a lot of discussion about whether it was snippy of Rolling Stone to conflate all the Dream Theater votes.

[Super Dude]

Apologies.

[Zydar]

In B4 the obligatory Rolling Stone hate.

[The Letter M]

There was a lot of "controversy" about this back in July or whenever it was posted because the band tweeted/FB'd about the poll, and so therefore, it's fanbase "inflated" the votes in their favor for SFAM.

Which, if you think about it, is REALLY fair, and I also believe Rush posted about it too (which explains why there are THREE Rush albums on the list). Why wouldn't it? Yes could have done the same, maybe even Genesis (is there a Genesis twitter account?). As for Pink Floyd and King Crimson...maybe not so much.

Also, the poll was about Top 10 Prog Rock albums, not concept albums. The Thread Subject is a bit misleading here.

-Marc.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Lolling Stone.

[Super Dude]

There was a lot of "controversy" about this back in July or whenever it was posted because the band tweeted/FB'd about the poll, and so therefore, it's fanbase "inflated" the votes in their favor for SFAM.

Which, if you think about it, is REALLY fair, and I also believe Rush posted about it too (which explains why there are THREE Rush albums on the list). Why wouldn't it? Yes could have done the same, maybe even Genesis (is there a Genesis twitter account?). As for Pink Floyd and King Crimson...maybe not so much.

Also, the poll was about Top 10 Prog Rock albums, not concept albums. The Thread Subject is a bit misleading here.

-Marc.

Whoops, don't know how I missed that.

[The Letter M]

Also, after doing a search on here, I found the thread that was made on this Poll back in July:

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=33335.0

-Marc.

[Scorpion]

WHY IS LAMB RATED HIGHER THAN SELLING ENGLAND GAWD

Sorry, that had to be said.

[SomeoneLikeHim]

WHY IS LAMB RATED HIGHER THAN SELLING ENGLAND GAWD

Sorry, that had to be said.

Because it's better?

[Scorpion]

Nope. Even DTF agrees - may I direct you to the Genesis Survivor, which a) a song from Selling England won and which b) had a song from Selling England as the longest-surviving third-ranked song in the history of survivors, which means that, on average Selling England is superior.

Sorry bro, but no-one can be right all the time. I understand.

[SomeoneLikeHim]

Well, Firth of Fifth is my favorite Genesis song so I'm not disagreeing there. I just think the lamb has something very special throughout the album. Also, I really think "The Battle of Epping Forest" brings Selling England down a bit. I would also rank Foxtrot over SEBTP.

[Scorpion]

Well, Foxtrot and Selling England are pretty much equal, in my eyes, but Lamb isn't really as good as both of them are and not as good as many make it out to be, in my opinion.

[SomeoneLikeHim]

Let's just agree to disagree then. I couldn't really put my finger on what I like so much about it either. It's just special to me.

[Scorpion]

I think I've said "agree to disagree" more on this forum than anywhere else put together.

Music discussion on DTF:

[SomeoneLikeHim]

Yeah, that's pretty true.

[The Letter M]

^^^  ^^^

Pretty much. I find that I tolerate a lot of other music than what I listen to, but it always seems that when others hear what I listen to, they're more close-minded about it. Who knows... maybe it's something about those who listen to prog that makes them a bit more open-minded to other music (possibly because Prog can be such a mish-mash of styles and genres, often times combining elements of multiple genres into one album or even song).

As for Genesis - I pretty much rank Foxtrot, SEBTP and TLLDOB all about equal. There are tracks I absolutely LOVE on all 3 albums, and there are tracks I don't like as much on all three albums. If I had to choose 2 LPs to take with me onto a Desert Island, either TLLDOB or both Foxtrot/SEPTB, I'm not sure I could decide!

-Marc.

[robwebster]

I think I've said "agree to disagree" more on this forum than anywhere else put together.

Music discussion on DTF:

I hate to repeat a rant that's only a couple of days old - but, like that's anyone's issue!

Language is a ridiculously complicated and very precise mix of information and connotation. The reason people take issue with people phrasing opinions like facts isn't that it's unclear, it's because they've generally stated it in a way that makes them sound like a bit of a stuck-up blowhard!

Sticking IMO onto the end of a sentence doesn't magically make the connotation of the first bit any softer, it doesn't make anyone sound like less of a twat nor solve any problems, just makes them sound like a twat who happens to have found a band-aid. If someone can't think of a better way to sieve their facts from their opinions than slapping an "IMO" onto it, they're probably a terrible writer!

Such a limp straw-man - and yet sagely bleated from every corner of the internet! Not an original thought, nor a particularly clever one.

...Can you tell it bugs me? q:

ETA - To clarify, Scorpion, not necessarily provoked by any opinions you've expressed, or how you've chosen to express your opinion. Never seen you being anything but perfectly friendly. But the difference between "this is a terrible album" and "this is an album I profoundly dislike" is astronomical, both in its semantics and its connotations; and when people are calling other people out for expressing opinions as facts, it's not because the other poster forgot to say "please" and "thank you," it's because the poster has either said something that's five leagues to the left of what they actually mean, or they sincerely literally meant what they said and are, thereby, probably a bit of a helmet.

[orcus116]

Posting on a message board pretty much implies that there is an IMO attached to every post, even if it isn't stated. I thought that was common internet knowledge. I mean if we had to say that we were stating our opinion in every day conversation/arguments/debates as often as people on message boards want to deem it appropriate to not offend someone I can't imagine how frustrating every day conversation would be.

[robwebster]

Posting on a message board pretty much implies that there is an IMO attached to every post, even if it isn't stated. I thought that was common internet knowledge. I mean if we had to say that we were stating our opinion in every day conversation/arguments/debates as often as people on message boards want to deem it appropriate to not offend someone I can't imagine how frustrating every day conversation would be.

Not at all! You have the wonderful gifts of expression, mood, context in every day conversation. I'd contend that a conversation is not much more about what you say than the way you say it.

On a message board, though, the words you choose are the only thing that guide the tone, (alright, and the punctuation, and sometimes the pictures of cats... but basically the words!) so if you've chosen some borderline rude words that don't at all match your thoughts, it'd be a bit rich to say it's the other person's fault for not presuming a more pleasant connotation than you could actually be bothered to muster. Cos even accepting that no-one ever has full control over how they're perceived, and that certain nuances will inevitably be lost in translation - that's, surely, all the more reason to take as much control as possible over the bits you can control and to do your point of view justice, rather than to lazily cough up the kind of slapdash nonsense that could easily be mistaken for genuine bigotry.

Because genuinely, supremely arrogant people do exist - and many of them! They aren't mega common, but of course they exist in a sample size as big as the internet, so distancing yourself from them is, honestly, a favour to yourself more than it's a favour to the reader. It's a bit rich having a go at someone for thinking you meant exactly what you wrote. You wrote it! If you didn't want to look like a twat, write it better!

And, again - this is very non-specific! Not specifically criticising how you write, orcus. And I'm sure people will find a lot of examples of me stating opinions like facts, now. I'm sure I've done it. Usually cos I've got a connotation in my head that didn't make its way to the page. I'll hold my hands up in advance - yes, bad writing!

[MoraWintersoul]

Language is a ridiculously complicated and very precise mix of information and connotation. The reason people take issue with people phrasing opinions like facts isn't that it's unclear, it's because they've generally stated it in a way that makes them sound like a bit of a stuck-up blowhard!

A billion times I was asked to explain why I'm bothered by that - "I'm just expressing my opinion, geez Louise are you butthurt or wut" - and I could never explicitly tell them that it makes them look like a bit of an asshole. Now when I know how to do it politely...

Thank you Rob

[robwebster]

Language is a ridiculously complicated and very precise mix of information and connotation. The reason people take issue with people phrasing opinions like facts isn't that it's unclear, it's because they've generally stated it in a way that makes them sound like a bit of a stuck-up blowhard!

A billion times I was asked to explain why I'm bothered by that - "I'm just expressing my opinion, geez Louise are you butthurt or wut" - and I could never explicitly tell them that it makes them look like a bit of an asshole. Now when I know how to do it politely...

Thank you Rob

Haha, I don't know if I'd use the word "polite," necessarily. I was trying to be, but there are only so many tactful ways to say, "If you want your opinion to be perceived like an opinion, fucking write it like one!" Feared I might have slipped into impatience a couple of times. Glad it didn't come across too much that way. Cheers - sincerely appreciated!

When it comes to it, though, if you're a human being, and you're writing on the internet, I probably don't know you! It's not up to me to evaluate your character on the spot and determine the level of malice. I just read the words and go "Oh, this person seems quite cool," or "Oh, this person seems like a massive pink knob-end." Because you can't take good faith as read - trust me, I've seen YouTube! If the comments on there are anything to go by, I wouldn't trust half the internet to tie their own shoelaces without being gratuitously racist.

So I guess what I'm saying is, the reader will take out of your post exactly what you put into it - give or take a small margin of error. If you write a post that requires the reader to fill in the blanks, to make a judgment call, it's hardly their fault if they attribute a different intent to the one you had, and crucially left, in your head. 99% of the time it won't cause a problem, but I reckon lazy writing is the number one cause of internet arguments, and opinions-as-facts is such a pointless trap to fall into. If you have to tack "IMO" onto the end, it tends to mean your post was probably missing a vital, vital piece of information that, in a written medium, can make all the difference between a pleasant chat and a venomous spat. And, frequently, it tends to mean it still is.



...Anyway! Number one progressive rock album, eh? How about that!

[Cedar redaC]

...Anyway! Number one progressive rock album, eh? How about that!

[BlobVanDam]

Language is a ridiculously complicated and very precise mix of information and connotation. The reason people take issue with people phrasing opinions like facts isn't that it's unclear, it's because they've generally stated it in a way that makes them sound like a bit of a stuck-up blowhard!

Sticking IMO onto the end of a sentence doesn't magically make the connotation of the first bit any softer, it doesn't make anyone sound like less of a twat nor solve any problems, just makes them sound like a twat who happens to have found a band-aid. If someone can't think of a better way to sieve their facts from their opinions than slapping an "IMO" onto it, they're probably a terrible writer!

Such a limp straw-man - and yet sagely bleated from every corner of the internet! Not an original thought, nor a particularly clever one.

...Can you tell it bugs me? q:

Ok, we're friends again, rob.   

[Scorpion]

Rob, I agree completely. The difference between "You're an asshole!" and "IMO, you're an asshole!" is pretty mich zilch - it allows the rude Person to feel better about themselves, that's it.

However, I simply love that cartoon and its hyperbolic message is just so spot-on sometimes that I couldn't hell but add it, if only to inject a little humour into the discussion.