Does anyone like the AA saga in its entirety?

[theseoafs]

What a silly mistake I made. Sorry 'bout that.

[Dellers]

The Glass Prison is horrible and Repentance is a pretty boring piece of music, so I guess my answer is no.  However, I absolutely like the rest of the songs.

[cyberdrummer]

The main reason I posted it was for MP's comment that he still wants to play it live. Do you think he'd resort to performing it with another band if he and DT never reconciled?

[BlobVanDam]

The main reason I posted it was for MP's comment that he still wants to play it live. Do you think he'd resort to performing it with another band if he and DT never reconciled?

I doubt he'll be in another band that is capable of reasonably pulling it off, and it's not really something he could release as he intended to with DT. I think it would be strange and awkward to try and get your new band to play a one hour suite you wrote with your previous band.

[cyberdrummer]

I was thinking more of a band specially put together to perform it rather than a full-time band, but I think you're right - it would be difficult to find musicians both able and willing to do it. I do think it's a shame because personally I would have loved to have seen it live.

[BlobVanDam]

I would have loved to see it too. I actually find the 12SS works better as a whole than you'd expect from the individual songs, and I would have liked to hear how they handled all of the transitions and turn it into a continuous piece.

But I just feel like any situation of MP trying to put together a performance of the 12SS would be strange without the rest of DT, and I think it would be strange for DT to do it without MP too (not that I'm saying they shouldn't, I just don't get the feeling they'd play it as a complete piece without him).

At the very least I'm glad DT have shown that they do intend to continue playing the songs without MP, so I hope TGP makes an appearance some time in the near future.

[jhonvictor]

Glass Prison - Excellent.
This Dying Soul - Excellent.
TROAE - Great.
Repentance - Great, gets quite broing when people starting talking.
Shattered Fortress - Great. I love how John Petrucci mixed the riffs from the songs.

[philmcson]

I would have loved to see it too. I actually find the 12SS works better as a whole than you'd expect from the individual songs, and I would have liked to hear how they handled all of the transitions and turn it into a continuous piece.

But I just feel like any situation of MP trying to put together a performance of the 12SS would be strange without the rest of DT, and I think it would be strange for DT to do it without MP too (not that I'm saying they shouldn't, I just don't get the feeling they'd play it as a complete piece without him).

At the very least I'm glad DT have shown that they do intend to continue playing the songs without MP, so I hope TGP makes an appearance some time in the near future.

This. Also, my hope is that somewhere in the future, they'll give MP a farewell concert, preferably in NY, or at least a farewell set during a concert when they'd play the 12SS and a few other chosen songs. Yes, I know that this is maybe 1% possible (if at all) but it would be epic... And yes, a new LTE album would be cool, too...

[robwebster]

And yes, a new LTE album would be cool, too...

Heck, that'd be a good excuse to dust it off. If ever they play it again, I think on-stage, with Liquid Tension Experiment, as a specially composed fifteen-minute instrumental medley would be a decent way. Three key performers on-stage (60% of the band, 80% instrumentalists), it'd be the kind of band that lends itself to a certain level of self-indulgence playing it to the kind of audience that wouldn't be put off by it, and there's plenty enough instrumental acrobatics in the suite to fill fifteen minutes interestingly, which is a relatively manageable length.

Not the time, though. Imagine the tension backstage.

[Cedar redaC]

The main reason I posted it was for MP's comment that he still wants to play it live. Do you think he'd resort to performing it with another band if he and DT never reconciled?

I doubt he'll be in another band that is capable of reasonably pulling it off, and it's not really something he could release as he intended to with DT. I think it would be strange and awkward to try and get your new band to play a one hour suite you wrote with your previous band.

Well, Roger Waters is playing The Wall.

It's not a suite, but it's the same idea if you know what I mean.

[BlobVanDam]

The main reason I posted it was for MP's comment that he still wants to play it live. Do you think he'd resort to performing it with another band if he and DT never reconciled?

I doubt he'll be in another band that is capable of reasonably pulling it off, and it's not really something he could release as he intended to with DT. I think it would be strange and awkward to try and get your new band to play a one hour suite you wrote with your previous band.

Well, Roger Waters is playing The Wall.

It's not a suite, but it's the same idea if you know what I mean.

I do know what you mean, although I'm not as familiar with the history of PF as I am with DT for exact comparison.
But I think going to such lengths to play/tour such a big portion of your past suggests that you're not really moving forward with your musical career.

[philmcson]

Not the time, though. Imagine the tension backstage.

MP mentioned JP and JR are the two members that are still in touch with him, so I think they wouldn't have such issues. But the latter guys are surely now focusing on DT schedule, so maybe 2014 a slot could be open. Or JLB is repeatedly asking for new albums to disable a LTE reunion 

[Jaq]

I think it's awful as a whole myself.

I will admit part of it is a personal bias: as a recovering alcoholic,  (eighteen years sober as of Friday), I all too often found myself listening to it thinking "man, would I really want to spend nearly an hour of music telling the world how I sobered up?" Kudos to Mike that he did, but I just never could get behind the idea myself from a personal basis. It doesn't help, really, from a lyrical standpoint that, despite going through all twelve steps, it all too often seems to be a variation on only a couple of lyrical themes, and the whole idea was done lyrically better in The Mirror. Which I think was another part of the problem; the band had already tackled this idea, in a far more concise form, and doing it again always struck me as redundant.

As for the individual songs themselves-you can tell the precise moment that the band, and MP himself, started losing interest in it. Namely The Root Of All Evil. There's just such a sense, to me, in that song, of "fine, here's the obligatory AA suite song, let's move on to more interesting things." Repentance is just too damn long, and the only thing that saves The Shattered Fortress is how it cleverly works the best ideas of the entire suite into one song. It also gives credence to the notion that it would have worked better as one, say 15-20 minute long song. As a whole? It's bloated, overlong, lyrically redundant at times, and despite being a person that SHOULD be interested in the lyrics, I don't even have that. Call it an ambitious failure, I suppose.

[Onno]

Glass Prison - Fantastic song.
This Dying Soul - Don't really care for it, I like the ending and most of the riffs, but I dislike the rapping bit and the Dave Mustaine vocal effects a few minutes in.
Root of All Evil - Great song.
Repentance - Great song, and a nice break from the smashing riffs, but for some reason I just don't like it as well as the others. I may prefer it over TDS though.
Shattered Fortress - Great last song, really like it.

As a whole, I do really like the AA cycle. I don't know what I'd think about seeing it live as a whole though; maybe that hour could've been filled with songs I like better.

[The Letter M]

Am I (still) the only one who gets irked when it's referred to as the "AA Saga" or "AA Suite", or anything with AA? Granted, it was about Mike's rehabilitation with AA, but even Mike himself has said he prefers it to be called the "Twelves-Step Suite", since the Twelve Steps of Recovery cover a wider range of addictions, and not just alcoholism.

To me, it's always been the "Twelve-Step Suite", or 12SS for abbreviation, and find it slightly irritating that fans still haven't learned to call it what it's writer says it should be called.

-Marc.

[olliemedsy]

My favorite is this dying soul. Loads of perfect moments. My next favorite is repentance. that song gets loads of crap, but i love it. really relaxing, like Opeth.

[PetFish]

Am I (still) the only one who gets irked when it's referred to as the "AA Saga" or "AA Suite", or anything with AA? Granted, it was about Mike's rehabilitation with AA, but even Mike himself has said he prefers it to be called the "Twelves-Step Suite", since the Twelve Steps of Recovery cover a wider range of addictions, and not just alcoholism.

To me, it's always been the "Twelve-Step Suite", or 12SS for abbreviation, and find it slightly irritating that fans still haven't learned to call it what it's writer says it should be called.

-Marc.

Unless/until the entire thing is released as an official EP or live performance with the "correct" title attached, who cares?  How many DT fans have heard all the songs?  Most of them.  How many DT fans have seen MPs preference for the "proper" title?  Almost none, including me until your post.

Also, where else in life is there a 12-step program that it could refer to?  None that I can think of, and if there is/are, then AA is like Kleenex... people say "Kleenex" when they should be saying "facial tissue" but nobody gets upset if they don't say "facial tissue".

When you build a house but don't want it to be called a house then don't build a house.

TLDR: It's not worth getting irked over or upset about at all.

[robwebster]

I think the logic is just that saying "AA suite" might make it sound like it's only for alcoholics. Keep it more open, and drug addicts, sex addicts - any sort of addict may be able to see themselves reflected in one of the songs, and might then resolve to apply the steps to their everyday lives. Especially given that Mike wasn't only addicted to alcohol. It's the kind of thing where you want to cast the net as wide as possible.

It's a noble enough reason, and I do try to go with it. I do occasionally slip into "AA Suite" now and then, though. It takes me a moment to remember which one's "right." Not having an official name has blurred the line a little.

[Kotowboy]

I call it " The Booze Cruise "

[CodyWanKenobi]

I love the entire thing. My least favorite part though, would have to be TDS because of the stupid Metallica sounding part around the 7 minute mark. Too much inspiration corner for me.

[Setlist Scotty]

Interesting thread, and to be quite honest I'm surprised by the comments (both positive and negative) from some of the various posts. The one thing that I think it's safe to say is that different parts of DT's catalog appeal to different people, so while you and some others may or may not like a specific song or part of a song, it seems that there's many others who feel just the opposite.

Personally, I like the suite overall, tho I agree that there is some bloat to it that could be trimmed. And TSF was a bit of a disappointment to me as well - I appreciate reusing sections of previous songs in new ways, but I would have liked for there to have been more original ideas in the final part.

The main reason I posted it was for MP's comment that he still wants to play it live. Do you think he'd resort to performing it with another band if he and DT never reconciled?

I doubt he'll be in another band that is capable of reasonably pulling it off, and it's not really something he could release as he intended to with DT. I think it would be strange and awkward to try and get your new band to play a one hour suite you wrote with your previous band.

He'll do it with another band, no doubt about it. But I'm pretty certain it will be a band that he puts together for that specific purpose, just like he did for each of his tribute bands. It won't be one of his other already-established bands.

I think going to such lengths to play/tour such a big portion of your past suggests that you're not really moving forward with your musical career.

Considering how many bands he's been in of late, and how only one of them played a single DT song (FC doing Repentance), not to mention how much new music he's recorded/worked on with artists, I think it's safe to say that this comment is untrue. Him wanting to do a tour performing all the songs in the suite is just another accomplishment he always intended to do.

[The Letter M]

I think going to such lengths to play/tour such a big portion of your past suggests that you're not really moving forward with your musical career.

Considering how many bands he's been in of late, and how only one of them played a single DT song (FC doing Repentance), not to mention how much new music he's recorded/worked on with artists, I think it's safe to say that this comment is untrue. Him wanting to do a tour performing all the songs in the suite is just another accomplishment he always intended to do.

Actually, make that THREE DT songs he's played as of late - he's done "Hell's Kitchen" and an instrumental cut of "Lines In The Sand" with Sherinian and that group. Great performances, too, from the videos I've seen on YouTube.

I think it's only a matter of time before Mike puts together a DT Cover band for a single show (or maybe even a small tour), where they do The Twelve-Step Suite in the 2nd set, maybe with "The Mirror" after it. He's got a huge selection of other songs he's written lyrics to that could easily fill out a 2-2.5 hour set:

"A Change of Seasons" (would be the perfect encore)
"Burning My Soul"
"Constant Motion"
"Honor Thy Father"
"Just Let Me Breathe"
"Never Enough"
"New Millennium"
"Raise the Knife"
"Scene Nine: Finally Free"
"Scene Six: Home"
"Scene Two: II. Strange Deja Vu" (most likely played with "Overture 1928")
"The Best of Times"

From this list, he could open with "Scene Two", or "New Millennium". I wouldn't think he'd play "Constant Motion" given how much it was (over-)played with DT over the past few years, but songs like "Honor Thy Father", "The Best Of Times", "Just Let Me Breathe" and "Burning My Soul" would be awesome to see him play.

If I were him, I'd do a one-off concert, have a staple band of guitar/keys/bass, bring in some guest guitarists/keyboardists for special solos, and have two or three different vocalists covering different tunes. Sure, it's not DT, it'd be "Mike Portnoy Presents - An Evening Of Dream Theater Music Plus"...but you can be MP and DT fans alike would line up for that concert.

-Marc.

[cyberdrummer]

Yeah I'd be there.

[The Letter M]

Yeah I'd be there.

Here's a set I came up with that's about 2.5 hours long.

Overture 1928
Strange Deja Vu
Honor Thy Father
Burning My Soul '96
Home
The Dance Of Eternity
Never Enough
Finally Free

-Intermission/Static Noise-

The Glass Prison
This Dying Soul
The Root Of All Evil
Repentance
The Shattered Fortress
The Best Of Times

Encore: A Change Of Seasons

With four songs from the FII-era that he wrote lyrics for, I decided to only include one. I figure you could probably squeeze JLMB in there somewhere, but the other two are pretty long. I suppose you could exchange BMS for either NM or RTK. But the 2nd set is just golden - the entire Twelve-Step Suite, cleverly played because TGP follows FF after intermission, and TBOT follows TSF as it does on BC&SL. Close the second set with the song dedicated to Mike's dad, then come out for the encore for the song dedicated to his mom. A touching way to close the show as a whole. The first set bookends with music from SFAM, with Home/TDOE in the middle. I was hesitant in including TDOE, but it's such an intricate/complicated song that it'd be nearly criminal to not see it included after Home. Without it, though, I'd throw in "New Millennium" in somewhere.

-Marc.

[jingle.boy]

On the naming convention, I think the connotation of AA (the disease/condition) is negative, while 12 Steps (process of recovery) is a positive.  Any wonder why he would want it to be referred to as the latter?  Given each song has sub-sections around each of the 12 steps, it only makes sense to me.

Ok, so who would be in that DT-cover band lineup?

inb4 Kevin Moore on keys.

[cyberdrummer]

He'd probably get Paul Gilbert on guitar, but I really can't think of anyone who could fill in on keys.

[MoraWintersoul]

Finally Free

-Intermission/Static Noise-

The Glass Prison

This was a very nice touch
I'd like to see that happen - it's a shame Mike didn't get to do the whole 12SS while he was still in the band. It's good the last album it was on had the ending to it, imagine if he left out a few steps, then left the band. That would have been some unfinished business.

[jingle.boy]

He'd probably get Paul Gilbert on guitar, but I really can't think of anyone who could fill in on keys.

That was my first thought too, but MP seems like the kinda guy that would want to mix things up a little.

[The Letter M]

Finally Free

-Intermission/Static Noise-

The Glass Prison

This was a very nice touch
I'd like to see that happen - it's a shame Mike didn't get to do the whole 12SS while he was still in the band. It's good the last album it was on had the ending to it, imagine if he left out a few steps, then left the band. That would have been some unfinished business.

Thanks! I've always imagined that would be how MP would do the set list if he opened the 2nd set of a show with TGP/the whole 12SS.

I think having finished the 12SS was a contributing factor to his decision to leave the band. He's pretty OCD/completist about things and I doubt he'd have left with unfinished business, so to speak. It does wrap up nicely, though, with 2 long songs at each end of the suite, both with 3 Movements/Steps each.

He'd probably get Paul Gilbert on guitar, but I really can't think of anyone who could fill in on keys.

That was my first thought too, but MP seems like the kinda guy that would want to mix things up a little.

Paul would be awesome, and I thought about Neal Morse for keys, because Neal really is pretty good, but I'm not sure he could cover ALL of JR's parts. I don't doubt that Neal would try his best, and Neal *IS* pretty good, but I'd have to see it to believe it.

-Marc.

[cyberdrummer]

Possibly the best we could do, taking into account who MP could realistically get to work with him:

Russell Allen
Paul Gilbert
Neal Morse and Derek Sherinian (each playing certain songs)
Les Claypool (other options are Tony Levin and Billy Sheehan, but Les is my preferred choice)
Mike Portnoy

[The Letter M]

Possibly the best we could do, taking into account who MP could realistically get to work with him:

Russell Allen
Paul Gilbert
Neal Morse and Derek Sherinian (each playing certain songs)
Les Claypool (other options are Tony Levin and Billy Sheehan, but Les is my preferred choice)
Mike Portnoy

Nice line-up, and I could see Neal doing backing vocals as well, and throw in Daniel Gildenlow to do some back-up keys/guitars/percussion/vocals (and lead vocals) here and there, and you've got me sold.

-Marc.

[cyberdrummer]

Good point, Gildenlow would be an excellent addition. MP, take note if you're reading...

[Zook]

Finally Free

-Intermission/Static Noise-

The Glass Prison

This was a very nice touch
I'd like to see that happen - it's a shame Mike didn't get to do the whole 12SS while he was still in the band. It's good the last album it was on had the ending to it, imagine if he left out a few steps, then left the band. That would have been some unfinished business.

He probably would do like the After Forever guy and finish his suite with a new band.

[Ben_Jamin]

Possibly the best we could do, taking into account who MP could realistically get to work with him:

Russell Allen
Paul Gilbert
Neal Morse and Derek Sherinian (each playing certain songs)
Les Claypool (other options are Tony Levin and Billy Sheehan, but Les is my preferred choice)
Mike Portnoy

I think he'd get either Tony Levin or Dave LaRue.

[Ħ]

In its entirety? Yeah I like it. It has many areas which need improvement but generally it's filled with some of DT's most powerful material.