Does anyone like the AA saga in its entirety?

[Cable]

Spoiler alert - The Mirror is not connected to the 12SS.

Sarcasm?

No.  It's not part of the suite.  At all.

Yes, but he said it's not connected to the suite at all, which is not true. TDS and Repentance do contain references to the song, which you can't say isn't a form of connection.

Where? Lyrically?

[The Letter M]

Spoiler alert - The Mirror is not connected to the 12SS.

Sarcasm?

No.  It's not part of the suite.  At all.

Yes, but he said it's not connected to the suite at all, which is not true. TDS and Repentance do contain references to the song, which you can't say isn't a form of connection.

Where? Lyrically?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_Suite

Read there - there's a lot of information regarding connections to "The Mirror".

-Marc.

[hefdaddy42]

Spoiler alert - The Mirror is not connected to the 12SS.

Sarcasm?

No.  It's not part of the suite.  At all.

Yes, but he said it's not connected to the suite at all, which is not true. TDS and Repentance do contain references to the song, which you can't say isn't a form of connection.

Yes I can.  They are as connected as Just Let Me Breathe and Take The Time.

[Lucidity]

I really like the 12 Step Suite. Aside from The Glass Prison (sorry; this really seems to be one of everyone's top DT songs. I honestly never listen past the amazing intro; it's all downhill beyond there...), most of the Suite is very good. Dying Soul is great, even if a bit showoffy at the end. Root of All Evil is really fun and straightforward. I like Repentance more than most; I think it's a nice breather from all the crazy heaviness in the saga. It's one of DT's more Opeth-y songs. Shattered Fortress isn't perfect, but I think it's pretty enjoyable. It keeps me entertained in much the same way as Dying Soul.

[BlobVanDam]

Spoiler alert - The Mirror is not connected to the 12SS.

Sarcasm?

No.  It's not part of the suite.  At all.

Yes, but he said it's not connected to the suite at all, which is not true. TDS and Repentance do contain references to the song, which you can't say isn't a form of connection.

Yes I can.  They are as connected as Just Let Me Breathe and Take The Time.

Pretty much that. It also saddens me how littered with opinion and speculation DT's wikipedia pages are.

[rumborak]

EDIT - found it on the Wiki article on the suite
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_Suite

Upon finishing the Suite in 2009, he reflected that he had "dug [himself] into a hole with it. It was a nice idea seven years ago... After a while it became like an obligation hanging over my head, like a homework assignment."[5] He said that he "didn't know if [he] would have done it"[6] if he knew how big the Suite was going to be: "If I had realized what I was getting myself into five albums ago... I think maybe I would have written one song that encompassed all twelve steps."[6]

Interesting, never had read that before.
Forgive my potential ignorance though, but what kept him from leaving the ending open? Especially since one of the crucial insights into addiction is that you can't overcome addiction, but only learn to manage it?
I dunno, I think he could have made a cut after step 6 and sort of do a "ride into the sunset" epilogue that meant the story would never be truly over.

[bosk1]

Forgive my potential ignorance though, but what kept him from leaving the ending open? Especially since one of the crucial insights into addiction is that you can't overcome addiction, but only learn to manage it?
I dunno, I think he could have made a cut after step 6 and sort of do a "ride into the sunset" epilogue that meant the story would never be truly over.

Honestly, I think OCD played a large role.  And, no, I'm not being facetious.  There are 12 steps.  Once he started, I think he was almost incapable of not doing all 12.

[ReaPsTA]

Forgive my potential ignorance though, but what kept him from leaving the ending open? Especially since one of the crucial insights into addiction is that you can't overcome addiction, but only learn to manage it?
I dunno, I think he could have made a cut after step 6 and sort of do a "ride into the sunset" epilogue that meant the story would never be truly over.

What's wrong with the ending as it is?

[YtseJamittaja]

Well, I enjoy all Dream Theater songs, so I'm probably the wrong person to ask, but yet, I do enjoy the whole AA Suite.  I don't LOVE all parts of it, but.

Just what I would have written.

[ReaPsTA]

Yes I can.  They are as connected as Just Let Me Breathe and Take The Time.

What?

[Dacling]

On the topic of the mirror. As stated it is not technically a part of the Twelve Step Suite but for me personally I look at it as something sort of a prologue. It's an entity on it's own and kind of sets things up for the 12SS.

[hefdaddy42]

Yes I can.  They are as connected as Just Let Me Breathe and Take The Time.

What?

True story.

Forgive my potential ignorance though, but what kept him from leaving the ending open? Especially since one of the crucial insights into addiction is that you can't overcome addiction, but only learn to manage it?

[Scorpion]

[snapple]

Honestly, I think OCD played a large role.  And, no, I'm not being facetious.  There are 12 steps.  Once he started, I think he was almost incapable of not doing all 12.

>OCD

[robwebster]

Twelve-Step Suite... eh! Nice idea, and exciting at first, but they were rarely if ever the best songs on their respective albums. Lots of good music there, but the end result's not something I'd want to sit and listen to for an hour.

For all it's worth...

The Glass Prison - Good metal song. Good melodies, cool vibe, absolutely blistering intro... but I never listen to it! No idea why.
This Dying Soul - The first half is stupendous. If it just consisted of the first half, this would have a shout at being the star performer. Second half? Couldn't sing a line to you. It sprawls.
The Root of All Evil - Wonderful. 25 minutes of claustrophobic metal gives way to something a bit more fun. Great rock song, one of Dream Theater's best. Fantastic chorus, very cool riffs, plus that intro - I can't find anything to dislike.
Repentance - Not bad, bit plodding. Nice harmonies, though. They'd have sounded great live.
The Shattered Fortress - To their credit, the one new idea they had was a good one. But, man. You can tell Mike's bored of it. Feels a bit phoned in. Energy's good when I'm in the mood, but it doesn't feel like a fitting end to something so ambitious.

Nothing's awful, everything's a decent listen, but that constant, oppressive hum of AA-ness would, I think, be pretty tiring. Happy we got it, but just as happy it wasn't played live.

Spoiler alert - The Mirror is not connected to the 12SS.

Sarcasm?

No.  It's not part of the suite.  At all.

Yes, but he said it's not connected to the suite at all, which is not true. TDS and Repentance do contain references to the song, which you can't say isn't a form of connection.

Yes I can.  They are as connected as Just Let Me Breathe and Take The Time.

JLMB and Take the Time don't share a dedication. The Mirror and the Twelve Step songs do. "Dedicated to Bill W," each one. It's not part of the same narrative, they're separate stories with different ideas happening at different stages of Mike's life, but they're absolutely and explicitly linked. One part lifts a title wholesale from the Mirror's lyrics. Which, yes, so did Stream of Consciousness from Lines in the Sand, but part IV - it's called "Reflections of Reality, Revisited," of all things!

I know it's annoying when people go "All six AA songs!" like they've discovered a secret, and I agree, The Mirror's not part of the suite by any stretch of the imagination... but it is a song that the suite repeatedly references. Just cos the link's not absolute doesn't mean it's not there. They're cousins, if not necessarily sisters.

[CrimsonSunrise]

No.  The only songs out of the saga  that I REALLY enjoy are TGP and TROAE.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I like the songs individually, but I just can't digest them as a whole. It's way too much.

[hefdaddy42]

Wow, no one picks up on the links between JLMB and TTT?

[Scorpion]

Wow, no one picks up on the links between JLMB and TTT?

Enlighten us, oh great Hef? I don't really see any.

[BlobVanDam]

Wow, no one picks up on the links between JLMB and TTT?

Don't worry hef, I thought it was pretty obvious and well known.

Close your eyes you can find all you need in your mind
Just close your mind you can find all you need with your eyes

[Scorpion]

Wow, no one picks up on the links between JLMB and TTT?

Don't worry hef, I thought it was pretty obvious and well known.

Close your eyes you can find all you need in your mind
Just close your mind you can find all you need with your eyes

Right, I never noticed that.

[hefdaddy42]

Wow, no one picks up on the links between JLMB and TTT?

Don't worry hef, I thought it was pretty obvious and well known.

Close your eyes you can find all you need in your mind
Just close your mind you can find all you need with your eyes

I did too.

I think there is a musical tease as well.  But I don't remember for sure because I don't like JLMB very much, so I hardly ever listen to it.

[ReaPsTA]

Wow, no one picks up on the links between JLMB and TTT?

You'd really say though that The Mirror is no more connected to the AA saga than JLMB and TTT?

[gborland]

I honestly don't like any of the 12 steps songs. If I ever had to listen to the entire suite, I think I would die of boredom.

So much repetition of the same riff over and over and over and over and over again....

[hefdaddy42]

Wow, no one picks up on the links between JLMB and TTT?

You'd really say though that The Mirror is no more connected to the AA saga than JLMB and TTT?

Well, not really.

But it's still not part of the suite, and shouldn't be considered as such.

[Scorpion]

I honestly don't like any of the 12 steps songs. If I ever had to listen to the entire suite, I think I would die of boredom.

So much repetition of the same riff over and over and over and over and over again....

The same riffs? Repentance would like to have a talk with you.

[Adami]

I honestly don't like any of the 12 steps songs. If I ever had to listen to the entire suite, I think I would die of boredom.

So much repetition of the same riff over and over and over and over and over again....

The same riffs? Repentance would like to have a talk with you.

Repentance starts on the TDS riff and TSF takes a good amount of riffs from Repentance. And by a good amount I mean 1 or 2.

[Scorpion]

I honestly don't like any of the 12 steps songs. If I ever had to listen to the entire suite, I think I would die of boredom.

So much repetition of the same riff over and over and over and over and over again....

The same riffs? Repentance would like to have a talk with you.

Repentance starts on the TDS riff and TSF takes a good amount of riffs from Repentance. And by a good amount I mean 1 or 2.

Fair enough, but he was clearly onto the point that they are boring in their repetitiveness, and every riff in Repentance has a totally different vibe than those in the other songs of the suite.

Plus, that alone shows that the suite has more than one riff.

[Adami]

Oh you're not getting an argument from me. Repentance is obviously my favorite song of the 5.

[Scorpion]

Mine too!

o/

[Adami]

Mine too!

o/

*\o

[Lolzeez]

Listened to the AA suite today. It was awesome. ESPECIALLY Repentance. LOVE that song a lot. IN FACT I enjoyed it the most out of all the songs 

[Progmetty]

Repentance is pretty boring and goes nowhere but I love all the other songs, the first three songs being the best and kinda carrying all the juice of the suite.

[Zook]

I enjoy the whole thing. I don't listen to it a lot but when I want an hour of relentless ass kicking metal with a slight breather, I'll put the suite on. Plus, as I said before, adding the instrumetal section from Endless Sacrifice into This Dying Soul just makes it more awesome.

TGP - my second favorite DT song. It's just amazing 10/10
TDS - also amazing. That rapping section everyone hates is one of my favorite parts of the song. 10/10
TROAE - amazing 10/10
R - great. Nothing wrong with it and JP's solo is amazing, but I have to be in the right mood. 9/10
TSF - great. After JR's awesome solo, yes awesome, the song drops in quality, but it's still great. 9/10

[TheGreatPretender]

Listened to the AA suite today. It was awesome. ESPECIALLY Repentance. LOVE that song a lot. IN FACT I enjoyed it the most out of all the songs 

The thing I like about Repentance in the grand scheme of the suite is that it gives the suite a much needed contrast. The first two songs are so heavy that by the time you get to TROAE, you're almost numb that that riff based metal aspect of the whole thing, and then Repentance comes in and gives you something a lot more melodic and it's refreshing.