What's Everyone's Problem with Systematic Chaos?

[The Letter M]

TMOLS is soooo underrated.

Agreed. o/

*\o

And yes, I really do like TMOLS.

-Marc.

[ArchVile]

The thing i know is, SC is used to be considered like one of most experimental DT albums.
i think its maybe true, but i see that, sc is an succesfully experiment.
Maybe SC departs from the usual way of DT albums, and it's because of it why DT admirers usually  underrate it.
but from a different point of view, not as simply as DT fanatic, SC is absolutely great though is a bit far from habitual DT creations.

every time i listen to SC i feel it's an album full of emotions and feelings, i know it was created in a DT difficulty moment of their career, maybe when the members began to have professional troubles together inside the band, and when some band members took some distance from the daily working of the band. But these type of feelings frustrations were reflected in the album composition. Because of it, i like to say that SC is an album full of passion within, we always could remember most the great pieces of art were created while the creators suffered in the process. and i can feel SC is one of that type of pieces.

personally, i love SC so much as I&W or SFAM.
the whole album is excellent for me and thinking on the lyrics i can see a relation between ITPOE and TDEN
PoW are a bit strange, obviously influenced by muse
I like to say TMOLS is one of my favourite pieces ever.
please excuse my english grammar deficiences . 

[ApparatusUnearth]

The thing i know is, SC is used to be considered like one of most experimental DT albums.
i think its maybe true, but i see that, sc is an succesfully experiment.
Maybe SC departs from the usual way of DT albums, and it's because of it why DT admirers usually  underrate it.
but from a different point of view, not as simply as DT fanatic, SC is absolutely great though is a bit far from habitual DT creations.

every time i listen to SC i feel it's an album full of emotions and feelings, i know it was created in a DT difficulty moment of their career, maybe when the members began to have professional troubles together inside the band, and when some band members took some distance from the daily working of the band. But these type of feelings frustrations were reflected in the album composition. Because of it, i like to say that SC is an album full of passion within, we always could remember most the great pieces of art were created while the creators suffered in the process. and i can feel SC is one of that type of pieces.

personally, i love SC so much as I&W or SFAM.
the whole album is excellent for me and thinking on the lyrics i can see a relation between ITPOE and TDEN
PoW are a bit strange, obviously influenced by muse
I like to say TMOLS is one of my favourite pieces ever.
please excuse my english grammar deficiences . 

I LOVE Systematic Chaos but I don't think of it as experimental at all. To me it sounds like Dream Theater as usual.

[Rattlehead]

The only problem I really have with SC is that I really never listen to half of the album (Forsaken, PoW, ITPoE Pt. 2, Repentance), but I think the other half is great. I find those songs to be uninteresting but I don't hate them by any means. I do understand why people don't like Constant Motion and TDEN even though I really enjoy them. It just doesn't have any classic DT songs besides ITPoE Pt. 1. I do prefer it to an album like Octavarium though, because even though it has two excellent songs (The Root of All Evil, Octavarium), I actually dislike pretty much every other song to the point where I never even listen to them at all any more.

[VioletS16]

The problem about SC, for me, is that there is no balance between progressive sound and metal. Overall, lyrics are bad, solos are uninspirational.

This is pretty accurate for me.

Personally, ITPOE p1 is really good.
Forsaken is mediocre but I really like the atmosphere.
Constant Motion is extremely cheesy.
The Dark Eternal Night is even cheesier than CM, but I used to love it and the chorus is catchy enough.
Repentance is very good.
Prophets of War is really poppy, but I appreciate the lyrics.
The Ministry of Lost Souls is a good song but too long IMO.
ITPOE p2 is very cheesy, especially the Dark Master and Slaughter of the Damned parts, but I must confess that I LOVE Heretic.

[Implode]

TMOLS is soooo underrated.

Wow. I forgot about that song! I always do! It's actually a good song.

[ricky]

The thing i know is, SC is used to be considered like one of most experimental DT albums.
i think its maybe true, but i see that, sc is an succesfully experiment.
Maybe SC departs from the usual way of DT albums, and it's because of it why DT admirers usually  underrate it.
but from a different point of view, not as simply as DT fanatic, SC is absolutely great though is a bit far from habitual DT creations.

every time i listen to SC i feel it's an album full of emotions and feelings, i know it was created in a DT difficulty moment of their career, maybe when the members began to have professional troubles together inside the band, and when some band members took some distance from the daily working of the band. But these type of feelings frustrations were reflected in the album composition. Because of it, i like to say that SC is an album full of passion within, we always could remember most the great pieces of art were created while the creators suffered in the process. and i can feel SC is one of that type of pieces.

personally, i love SC so much as I&W or SFAM.
the whole album is excellent for me and thinking on the lyrics i can see a relation between ITPOE and TDEN
PoW are a bit strange, obviously influenced by muse
I like to say TMOLS is one of my favourite pieces ever.
please excuse my english grammar deficiences . 

I LOVE Systematic Chaos but I don't think of it as experimental at all. To me it sounds like Dream Theater as usual.

what is dream theater "as usual"....?

[orcus116]

Whenever you hear a new album that doesn't musically surprise you and sounds like they're phoning it in. Changes per person. For me it's been every album from Octavarium onwards.

[ricky]

so technically, after hearing WDADU, images could be considered "as usual" DT?

[orcus116]

If you think everything sounds like WDADU, then sure.

[Dublagent66]

TMOLS is soooo underrated.

Agreed. o/

*\o

And yes, I really do like TMOLS.

-Marc.

All of this.

[MetropolisWatches]

SC > BC&SL (their worst album)

[Polis]

sc isn't even that bad of an album.. itpoe 1 and 2 is sooo underrated just because it's on systematic, and the rest ranges from good to mediocre. There' aren't any bad songs to say, but just not phenomenal like most of DT's catalog

[54_diplomats]

I think it's a good album, but definitely on the lower end of the spectrum of DT albums.

1.ITPOE (pt.1 and 2) - Top 20 for me. Just an amazing track especially part 1. JLB's vocals have some crazy emotion in them while singing pt.1 and Heretic. The only thing that stops this song from being top 10 for me is The Reckoning.

2. Forsaken - Not bad, not great. I don't have much to say about this song.

3. Constant Motion - One of my least favorite if not my least favorite Dream Theater song. I only really like the drumming during the solo and the solo itself, that's it.

4. The Dark Eternal Night - Really fun song to listen to, love the distorted vocals and the chorus is great. Underrated track.

5. Repentance - Decent track. I'm not crazy about it, but it's good.

6. Prophets of War - Another decent song. I really like MP's rap section in this song.

7. The Ministry of Lost Souls - I like it, but it had the potential to be so much more. The song is a bit too long as well.

[BlobVanDam]

The thing i know is, SC is used to be considered like one of most experimental DT albums.
i think its maybe true, but i see that, sc is an succesfully experiment.
Maybe SC departs from the usual way of DT albums, and it's because of it why DT admirers usually  underrate it.
but from a different point of view, not as simply as DT fanatic, SC is absolutely great though is a bit far from habitual DT creations.

every time i listen to SC i feel it's an album full of emotions and feelings, i know it was created in a DT difficulty moment of their career, maybe when the members began to have professional troubles together inside the band, and when some band members took some distance from the daily working of the band. But these type of feelings frustrations were reflected in the album composition. Because of it, i like to say that SC is an album full of passion within, we always could remember most the great pieces of art were created while the creators suffered in the process. and i can feel SC is one of that type of pieces.

personally, i love SC so much as I&W or SFAM.
the whole album is excellent for me and thinking on the lyrics i can see a relation between ITPOE and TDEN
PoW are a bit strange, obviously influenced by muse
I like to say TMOLS is one of my favourite pieces ever.
please excuse my english grammar deficiences . 

I LOVE Systematic Chaos but I don't think of it as experimental at all. To me it sounds like Dream Theater as usual.

what is dream theater "as usual"....?

I don't know how anyone could have honestly listened to SC for the first time and thought "well this just sounds like DT as usual". Because it doesn't. It's a lone wolf, hated because it's threatening and dangerous, and not like all of the other puppy dogs. But underneath it's harsh exterior of fangs and claws and piercing eyes is a beautiful beast that just wants to be your friend.

[kirksnosehair]

I skip about 1/2 of this one when I listen to it.  It could be worse, it could be Octavarium 

[Buddyhunter1]

I skip about 1/2 of this one when I listen to it.  It could be worse, it could be Octavarium 

Anyways, Systematic Chaos is one of my least favorite DT albums, and I definitely love DT's "modern era" a lot more than most people on here do. The album just has waaaaaaaay too many weak songs. It's also probably their cheesiest album, getting quite cringeworthy at some points.

[KevShmev]

  The album just has waaaaaaaay too many weak songs.

Yep, that is the biggest problem with it for me.  I can see the appeal of it for some, as it has that kind of "big dumb metal record" vibe, which many like; I get it.  And if the songwriting had been stronger, it probably would have stuck with me, but it grew off of me pretty quickly. 

Really, for me, SC and BC&SL were where DT had the most trouble with inconsistent songwriting in the midst of songs, with SC tending to have great moments in otherwise bland songs (like the great guitar solos in Forsaken and Constant Motion, for example), and BC&SL tending to have some forgettable moments/parts in otherwise very good songs. 

[TheGreatPretender]

I think Systematic Chaos is one of their best albums. It's very Metal, but still retains strong melodies and great musicianship that DT is known for. I really don't understand people's problems with it, calling the album weak, and the songwriting subpar. I totally disagree. It's my third favorite of all their albums.

[Zantera]

The album is pretty awful IMO. ITPOE1 is a good song, Constant Motion is okay, the rest.. kill it with fire.

[The Dark Master]

First of all, I have very high standards of Dream Theater, so for me, even their weakest albums are better then 99% of the music out there.  So I don't consider Systematic Chaos to be a horrible album by any means.  On it's own, it is a great record.  However, by the standards of DT discography, it is one of their weakest records, and for me, it comes in dead last (although BC&SL is not very far behind).

General Problems -

- Production:  This album is for Dream Theater what AJFA was for Metallica.  The guitar and drums are really dry and have little to no depth in their sound, the bass is pretty much non-existent, the keyboards are very one dimensional and the keyboard parts are rather uncreative, and the vocals a very thin and lacking in warmth.  With the exception of WDADU, this is easily the worst-produced DT album for me.

- Lyrics:  The lyrics on this album are just plain silly and difficult to respect.  I'm not even talking about the fantasy themes (clearly, I had no problem with that ;P), but the lyrics in general are very literal and sound like not a lot of effort and thought was put into their creation.  Lyrically, this sounds like DT running on fumes, and that was an issue that would continue onto the next album as well.....

- Mike Portnoy's Lead Vocals:  Another thing about this album that carried over to the next record.  This was the album where MP really started to get waaaaayyyyy to much time on the mic.  His gruff, tough guy vocals were very odd and out of place within the context of the band's very 70's prog based musical style, and they clashed a lot with JLB's much more cleaner style of singing, rather then complimenting it.   Furthermore, I found the notion that the band needed harsher vocals to sound more "modern" to be a very weak argument, not to mention very insulting to James and a bit of a slap in the face to older, more long term DT fans.  Over all, Mike's vox felt more like an annoying distraction from the music rather then a meaningful and useful contribution to it.

The Songs -

- In The Presence Of Enemies:  By far the best song on the album (and yes, I am counting it as one song; I refuse to view it as two separate entities and strongly feel that splitting it up was a mistake).  Aside form the general issues I stated above, this song is a shining star in Dream Theater's discography.

- Forsaken:  While far from the best DT ballad, this is a great song in it's own right that got way too much shit due to the vampire themed lyrics.  The chorus is a little weak, but overall, this is easily one of the better songs on the album

- Constant Motion:  Meh.....  It's not bad by any means, but I really felt that DT had already covered the whole "Metallica-mixed-with-Yes" concept pretty thoroughly on Train Of Thought, so trying that style again here was rather redundant and unnecessary.  The vocal trades between James and Mike really do not work here, and with out them, the whole song is rather unremarkable.

- The Dark Eternal Night:  One of the most bizarre tracks in Dream Theater's career.  I'm really not a fan of the vocals in the verse, but the chorus rocks pretty hardcore.  The middle section is cool, but it definitely sounds like a retread of TDOE and the middle section of Endless Sacrifice, so it's not as effective as it might have been otherwise.  One of the most lopsided DT songs out there

- Repentance:  The first half on the song is really slick, laid back, Pink Floyd-ian 70's stoner rock coolness.  The second half, however, goes on for far to long, and while I think what MP was trying to do with the samples was a cool idea, they get really old, really fast.  If the song was more like 6 or 7 minutes long, it would have been a lot better.

- Prophets Of War:  While the lyrics on this song are kind of meh, this is actually one of the more cohesive and thought out tracks on the record.  Strangely, this is one of the few times where I don't mind Mike's lead vocals in the middle of the song, and his backing vox in the rest of track are rather cool.  While it has it's flaws, this is overall one of the strong songs on the album.

- The Ministry Of Lost Souls:  A really awesome song, but the beginning kinda drags, and the ending isn't quite as climactic as it could have been since it fades into ITPOE pt2.  If the start of the song was spiced up a bit, and the end was given a proper finale, this could have been one of the best songs in the DT discography.

It is not a bad record at all, really, but the production, lyrics and MP vocals really drag it down, and some of the song arrangements are a bit odd.  Overall, I feel if the band tried a bit less to sound more "cutting and modern", and had just been themselves a bit more on this album, this could have been a much better record. 

[ytserush]

It's my least favorite Dream theater album ever although I do like
Constant Motion
Repentance
Prophets Of War

Ear fatigue is off the charts on it and although I wasn't a fan before I found out some the lyrics were "inspired" by a comic book. (not that I'm against being inspired by comic books but I don't like that it hasn't been reference anywhere. Wow! Did I just type that out loud?)  it sure doesn't help the cause that they were in this particular case for me.

[LCArenas]

It's a mediocre album by a band that has accustomed us to quality albums. Only songs I like nowadays are The Ministry of Lost Souls (And it could've been better without that out-of-place instrumental section), ITPOE part One, and Forsaken. Yes, Forsaken.

[hefdaddy42]

What's Everyone's Problem with Systematic Chaos?

I can't speak for everyone, but my main problem with it is that it's not very good.

[King Postwhore]

I had such a connection with Octavarium and then Score that DT was on a huge run for me that when it came out, it seemed to fall flat to me.  I still listen to it but not like others in their catalog.

[Cable]

As a whole, I just do not enjoy the songs front to back. IPTOE yes, and to me it is an intense song all the way through.

But I hate the choruses of TDEN and Forsaken, hate TMOLS beginning to before the bridge and etc. I do actually enjoy all of CM, but there is too much that just does not vibe with me over the whole album.

[Quarter_Cask]

and also... they've split the best song on the CD 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

It's not a great album. ITPOE is nice, but has its flaws. Forsaken is all right, Constant Motion grew boring after a while, The Dark Eternal Night (this one, I've gained appreciation for since they played it in the ADOTE tour) is fun, Repentance is longer than it should've been, Prophets of War lol and The Ministry of Lost Souls is boring as fuck.

[Buddyhunter1]

and also... they've split the best song on the CD 

IMO, that was for the best. The first part is a fantastic opener, and the second is a fantastic closer. If they got lumped together the flow of the album would have been terrible.

[BlobVanDam]

and also... they've split the best song on the CD 

IMO, that was for the best. The first part is a fantastic opener, and the second is a fantastic closer. If they got lumped together the flow of the album would have been terrible.

Maybe it's not as good together, but it's the one DT album where I rearrange the order, so that ITPOE is one song at the end.
My reasoning being that after hearing part 1 I want to hear the conclusion, rather than wait. It's sort of like watching half of a movie, then stopping to watch a bunch of other stuff, then watching the rest of the movie.

[Infinite Cactus]

ITPOE1: Great track, one of their best openers.
Forsaken: No thanks. I don't really like Evanescence.
Constant Motion: I'm actually ok with it, not bad, not great. Cool guitar solo
TDEN: Love it because of how stupid fun the song is.
Repentance: Good first part, after that it may be one of the most boring songs they've ever done.
POW:Another fun song. A little too Muse for me at times but I love it when it gets really disco.
TMOLS: Worst song DT have ever done. I hate it. IT's boring as fuck, cheesy as shit. The main melody makes me think of The Lion King but without all the awesomeness that comes from watching The Lion King. It never really goes anywhere. Oh wait, yes it does. It turns into another song for the instrumental sections then spends an hour ending. Bew.
ITPOE2:I dig it. The ending with the moog is pretty cool school.

[SjundeInseglet]

]I can't speak for everyone, but my main problem with it is that it's not very good.

This. So very much.

[The Clairvoyant]

Firstly I don't like this album because it's not a DT album but a Portnoy's album cause it reflects his desire of changing. Portnoy makes the second singer in constant motion and the dark eternal night and honestly I don't like this because it's clear that these two songs are not in dt style but in portnoy's style. I guess the only good song of this album is "the ministry of last souls" but honestly the rest of it I don't like. clearly this is my opinion...

[TheGreatPretender]

Firstly I don't like this album because it's not a DT album but a Portnoy's album cause it reflects his desire of changing. Portnoy makes the second singer in constant motion and the dark eternal night and honestly I don't like this because it's clear that these two songs are not in dt style but in portnoy's style. I guess the only good song of this album is "the ministry of last souls" but honestly the rest of it I don't like. clearly this is my opinion...

If Portnoy's vocal presence is the reason why people don't like Systematic Chaos, then I can't possibly understand how people can like it less than Black Clouds and Silver Linings.

[Ben_Jamin]

Forsaken: No thanks. I don't really like Evanescence.

Its like Evanescence decided to cover Cold by Static X. Cold has the same open rhythm, just a bit, and was used in Queen of The Damned, a great vampire movie.