The Systematic Chaos Appreciation (and explanation of disappreciation) Thread

[Scard]

I voted average. In terms of DT, this album is not more than average.

Track Rankings:

ITPOE Pt1 : 8/10- Best song on the album. Really rockin and progressive. Great intro solo
Forsaken : 4/10- My second least favourite. Nothing really memorable at all.
CM : 6/10- Not bad for a prog single, but still doesn't impress. Terrible vocal melodies.
TDEN : 8/10- Very cheesy, but fun song. Love the instrumental section. Keeps me interested.
Repentance : 7/10- Fairly boring. the second half of it lasts too long. The little guitar/bass fills in between each section of lyrics in the verses really break the flow of the song, and I feel it would be a lot better without them.
PoW : 4/10- Not a very good song at all. Only thing I enjoy are the queen-like vocal harmonies done by MP.
TMOLS : 7.5/10- I like it. Instrumental section and all it's not a bad tune. A definite redeeming quality of the album.
ITPOE Pt2 : 7/10-Many epic/head-banging moments. Fairly boring middle section. Epic ending. A fairly low end "long" DT song.

[Plasmastrike]

That's right - I searched and resurrected!

I am listening to SC right now after Surrounded (in response to bosks's thread), and I'm finding myself really enjoying it a lot. It's just so random and diverse in a way. It's not going to be replacing the classics as my favorite or anything. I'm just getting a lot more enjoyment than usual out of it - a good feeling!

ITPOE 1 is truly a great piece of music imo.

[Zook]

OK.

I just cut Constant Motion into a 3:37 minute song. AND IT FLOWS!

MIRACLES!

[Global Laziness]

But yeah, this album does have some pretty solid tracks, even if it is one of Dream Theater's weaker albums on the whole.

[Gadough]

It was the album that got me into DT. I'm proud to call it my favorite.

[Adami]

It's an average album. Has great songs like Itpoe pt. 1 and Repentence, some mediocre songs like TMOLS and CM, and some just lame songs like everything else.

[Mladen]

One of their best works. Fun, melodic, and highly infectious. Favorites: The Ministry of lost souls, In presence of enemies, Constant motion.

9/10

[moffatt]

I love it. It's my 5th or 6th favourite. I think its great how they made a real different approach which i believe to do with roadrunner. All the songs on the album are very different. Repentance is probaly my favourite from the album. It is just so beautiful and the solo is one of JP's best. So you've also got a few of the heavier songs. TDEN and constant moition. Both are amazing, TDEN is a real  song with an awesome instrumental bit. Constant motion has awesome vocals including MP's backings. Then we've also got the ballad, forsaken. Probaly my least favourite, but it still rocks. TMOLS is a very emotional song with awesome lyrics. Alot of people hate POW, but i really like it. It is really an unusual DT song, but i think it works. And then you've got the epic of the album ITPOE. I think it is an epic song with lots of highlights in both parts.

[hefdaddy42]

Pretty bad, but has some good points.

[AcidLameLTE]

My least favourite DT record.

[?]

Systematic Chaos isn't bad but I listen to it quite rarely compared to most of the other DT albums, so I voted "average".

[Jamesman42]

Over the course of about a year, I will say it's average. It's not worse than WDADU for example.

Saying an album is average for DT is saying it's still better than a lot of music to me, though there are a lot of albums by other bands that slay SC.

[Shadow2222]

Scard, I borrowed the format of your post. I hope you don't mind.

ITPOE Pt1 : 9/10- Fantastic opener. Possibly the best opening song on a DT record (only beat by ANTR)

Forsaken : 8/10- Really cool song. Sort of generic, but doesn't stop it from being a good song.
CM : 9/10- Still one of my favorite DT songs. Fantastic vocals (not a joke)
TDEN : 9/10- Really metal song. Love it.
Repentance : 3/10- Way too long. Most boring song DT has made.
PoW : 8/10- Awesome song. The chant part is really cool, and I really like the opening. Hope to see it live at the one off show (probably won't be at the IM shows).
TMOLS : 9.5/10- Almost perfect, but is just a bit too long. Some of the best lyrics by DT.
ITPOE Pt2 : 8/10 - Not as good as part 1, but really good.

Also for reference, the only two albums that are worse than this by DT are FII and WDADU, which says something about the quality of their music.

[KevShmev]

  Has great songs like Itpoe pt. 1 and Repentence

Nearly three years later, I think those are definitely the two best songs on SC, although I would say both are very good.  I still think SC is the one DT CD that doesn't have at least one truly great DT song. 

And I still can't believe that they not only thought "Constant Motion" was good enough to put on a record, but good enough to make a video for and release as a single.  That remains, to me, the biggest WTF of their career.  I gave it another chance recently, and while the main riff is still rocking and JP's solo is great, the vocal melodies overall are BY FAR the worst of any song they have ever done, IMO.

[kingsXrocks]

  Has great songs like Itpoe pt. 1 and Repentence

Nearly three years later, I think those are definitely the two best songs on SC, although I would say both are very good.  I still think SC is the one DT CD that doesn't have at least one truly great DT song. 

And I still can't believe that they not only thought "Constant Motion" was good enough to put on a record, but good enough to make a video for and release as a single.  That remains, to me, the biggest WTF of their career.  I gave it another chance recently, and while the main riff is still rocking and JP's solo is great, the vocal melodies overall are BY FAR the worst of any song they have ever done, IMO.

this. but id have to digress and call repentence a fantastic song. it's got mood and atmpsphere that's been lacking sorely since octavarium and before then 6 degrees and falling into infinity.

[bosk1]

And I still can't believe that they not only thought "Constant Motion" was good enough to put on a record, but good enough to make a video for and release as a single.  That remains, to me, the biggest WTF of their career.  I gave it another chance recently, and while the main riff is still rocking and JP's solo is great, the vocal melodies overall are BY FAR the worst of any song they have ever done, IMO.

My second favorite on the album, just narrowly getting edged out by ITPOE1.  I for one am glad they put it on there.

[ZKX-2099]

The first 5 minutes of the CD are god tier. When the chorus riff punches in at about 4:50...

The closing unison of Enemies: 1 is second only to the unison from In The Name Of God.

Forsaken is a very solid "single" song. Petrucci's pre-chorus fills are what make the song stand out.

The back and forth vocals of Mike and James in Constant Motion are very fun. And I love the steady build style solo.

The Dark Eternal Night is just balls and chunk awesome. And will probably be the last time I will say Myung really stands out.

I have to give them credit for making both a "mellow" and "epic" song in one with Repentance.

Prophets Of War suffers from the political lyrics stigma... so that hurts it... lack of a solo hurts it more.

The Ministry Of Lost Souls is missing something... not sure what. But it is a solid song.

Enemies: 2 is another balls and chunk powerhouse, yet it's one of their weaker closing songs.

[Dr. DTVT]

SC and WDADU are in a pillow fight to decide which is my least favorite DT album, with ToT anxioulsy waiting the winner.

[orcus116]

The first 5 minutes of the CD are god tier. When the chorus riff punches in at about 4:50...

Definitely the best description.

[antigoon]

  Has great songs like Itpoe pt. 1 and Repentence

Nearly three years later, I think those are definitely the two best songs on SC, although I would say both are very good.  I still think SC is the one DT CD that doesn't have at least one truly great DT song. 

And I still can't believe that they not only thought "Constant Motion" was good enough to put on a record, but good enough to make a video for and release as a single.  That remains, to me, the biggest WTF of their career.  I gave it another chance recently, and while the main riff is still rocking and JP's solo is great, the vocal melodies overall are BY FAR the worst of any song they have ever done, IMO.

Meh, it's just a stupid metal song. I don't find too much to get upset about with this track, other thank knowing that DT is capable of much better music. It does have cool riffs and a great guitar solo going for it, though. The chorus is alright, too. *shrug*

[YtseBitsySpider]

I voted for "terrible." 

Ditto.
A very forced tangle of bits.

[Dublagent66]

Those who voted terrible, there's no hope for you.  Had you provided an explanation, there may have been a glimmer of hope, but nooooo!   

[Perpetual Change]

Impressed initially, but, unlike Black Clouds, it got put on the shelf indefinitely after about a month.

[LudwigVan]

Strong album.  I enjoy it every time I listen to it.

[yeshaberto]

when I think of the album as a whole, I get an empty feeling, but when I hear the individual songs from the album, I love them...

[hefdaddy42]

And I still can't believe that they not only thought "Constant Motion" was good enough to put on a record, but good enough to make a video for and release as a single.  That remains, to me, the biggest WTF of their career.  I gave it another chance recently, and while the main riff is still rocking and JP's solo is great, the vocal melodies overall are BY FAR the worst of any song they have ever done, IMO.

I don't loathe it like you do, but I definitely dislike it.  I love the instrumental section; I just wish they had found a better song to put it in.

[KevShmev]

I don't come from a metal background, so, regarding CM, maybe that is why I dislike what antigoon called a "stupid metal song" so much.  Hard to say.  No one can say I didn't try to like it, though.

[LudwigVan]

when I think of the album as a whole, I get an empty feeling, but when I hear the individual songs from the album, I love them...

Interesting perspective.   The parts are greater than their sum. 

[rumborak]

Pretty bad, but has some good points.

Yeah, my vote too. I almost never find myself in the mood for listening to it.

rumborak

[Quadrochosis]

when I think of the album as a whole, I get an empty feeling, but when I hear the individual songs from the album, I love them...

I actually really agree with this a lot. I cringe when i think about listening to the album but when a song comes up on my CPU at random I usually listen (Unless it's Constant Motion or Repentance.)

[LCArenas]

Well as I've said here before, I like the songs individually, but I don't like the album as a whole. I don't know. I just can't get into the whole album. Also, TMOLS is incredibly boring and the TDEN's vocals ruin the whole song.

[Aniland]

One of their best. Dare I say, their 4th best (though 6DOIT might put it down to 5th best)?

Why, you ask?

- It flows so well. Each song moves perfectly into the next, forming the best cohesive whole since Scenes From a Memory.
- The whole album has a same, discernible atmosphere. I didn't get that feel too much from BC&SL (though there was still an atmosphere in that one, SC excels at this)
- Experimentation into different styles. "Forsaken", "Constant Motion", "The Dark Eternal Night", and "Prophets of War" all show completely different sides to them that we haven't seen before. I'm all for them experimenting.
- "In the Presence of Enemies, pt. 2", which happens to be my 2nd favorite Dream Theater track ever.
- It's very LaBrie driven, which I love

[Darkes7]

I don't see the need to repeat my opinion of the whole album since you probably already know it better than you'd wish, but there's one thing that bothers me...

What's everyone's problem with Constant Motion? It's hands down one of their best straightforward metal songs ever, and I don't see how it counts as bad in any possible way. I can see why someone would not like it if they're not a fan of DT's heavier side, but it doesn't count as bad in any possible way. Just to name a few most obvious strengths...
- the riffs. From the first second to the very ending, it's basically filled with amazing riffs that just "drive" the song in an amazing way like supposed to. They just flow perfectly, and feel really strong, so the song really manages to grab me that way.
- yes, the whole song flows perfectly. Two completely different verses, different chorus, different instrumental section, and it all holds together without a single flaw. It's 6:50 and it feels like 4 minutes or something.
- one of the best heavier instrumental sections in a DT song ever. Not too long, perfectly constructed. And the way the chorus flows into the first solo, with the incredible bass passage is one of the best moments on the whole album.
- vocals. MP's low vocals don't fit for ANTR theme. Here they fit perfectly and the second verse with both James and Mike is perfectly executed. Also, James himself does a great job here overall.
- and finally, the chorus. If it doesn't grab you, I don't know what can. It's capable of making a zombie sing along, and live it just defeats everything in existence.

That would do for starters...

[Adami]

I actually like Constant Motion a bit. The only part that I feel drags is the chorus, it just seems to drop the energy. I don't mind the metallica rip off vocals or anything.

[robwebster]

Oh, it's fantastic. I've gone into this many, many times on here so I'm not going to bother labouring the point again for the umpteenth time, but I think it suffers from being in the context of a much more serious catalogue. You've got a bunch of fairly mature albums, and then sandwiched right in the middle you've got Systematic Chaos sitting there, being thrilling and colourful and bold and vibrant and thoroughly mad. Like a good comic book, it's an adventure rather than an existential musing. It's not what most Dream Theater fans signed up for so I can see why it's not universally accepted, but it feels such a snug fit for the band.

Not in the top drawer of DT output, but a fine figure of an album. So much fun.