Images and Words 20th Anniversary Thread

[?]

I&W is excellent, my 2nd favorite DT album behind Awake! The long silence between WDADU and I&W must've been a frustrating period for the band, but they had a lot of time to work on the album and it can definitely be heard.

As for Kevin Moore, he's my favorite musician out of all the past and former DT members and his lyrics have always been interesting and well-written, both in and out of DT. While DT lost something when Kevin left, it's a good thing that we have both DT and Kevin's post-DT stuff (Chroma Key, OSI) and looks like going separate ways was the best solution after all: DT got to explore areas they couldn't have gone into with KevMo and he has done his own music which wouldn't have fit DT.

[Dream Team]

Yeah, he did (and still does!), but even the lyrics he had nothing to do with back in the day were pretty swell if I may say so myself. And it's not like I listened to Scenes and FII afterwards (since I moved more or less chronologically) and thought "oh yeah, these lyrics don't cut it, they don't make 'em like they used to". They were fairly good as well, even if I don't like some lyrical things about those albums (yes, even Scenes), the general quality remained the same.

re:Lie yay, finally someone who appreciates those lyrics as well *high five*

Don't get me wrong, I like Pettrucci's lyrics, and the stuff they've written since. But it just doesn't have the same, like I said, poetry that Moore had. Whether it's "I'll take seven lives for one, and then my only father's son, as sure as I did ever love him I am not afraid," or "Mother Mary, quite contrary, kiss the boys and make them wary" I've just never heard stuff like that in any other band.

The bolded one is quite cringe-worthy and his worst lyric by miles. Surely you have a better example of his writing - how about something from OAMOT which is DT's greatest lyric?

[Kwyjibo]

So it's my 19th Anniversary of becoming a Dream Theater fan.

My first record of DT was Images and Words, though I didn't buy it for roughly a year after it came out. Then I listened to it, not knowing what to expect and obviously became hooked to DT for life.

[MoraWintersoul]

Yeah, the split between DT and KM is in my book not worth crying over because that only doubled the awesome and we got more great music than what we would have gotten otherwise. Having said that, the music they did together - like the album we're celebrating now - is breathtakingly beautiful, probably the most beautiful Dream Theater music.

[Pelata]

Kevin Moore definitely left a hole lyrically that they never recovered from, IMO.

He wrote, like... 8 lyrics in total on three albums. I adore his lyrics to death but that's a weird thing to say. But oh well, opinions 

Yeah, but his lyrics, to me, were the best of the bunch. When they tried to fill that hole (almost a full third of the lyrical output on 3 albums....8 songs out of 25 w/ lyrics) they were not able to do it to the degree of quality/style with which Kevin did.

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah, he did (and still does!), but even the lyrics he had nothing to do with back in the day were pretty swell if I may say so myself. And it's not like I listened to Scenes and FII afterwards (since I moved more or less chronologically) and thought "oh yeah, these lyrics don't cut it, they don't make 'em like they used to". They were fairly good as well, even if I don't like some lyrical things about those albums (yes, even Scenes), the general quality remained the same.

re:Lie yay, finally someone who appreciates those lyrics as well *high five*

Don't get me wrong, I like Pettrucci's lyrics, and the stuff they've written since. But it just doesn't have the same, like I said, poetry that Moore had. Whether it's "I'll take seven lives for one, and then my only father's son, as sure as I did ever love him I am not afraid," or "Mother Mary, quite contrary, kiss the boys and make them wary" I've just never heard stuff like that in any other band.

The bolded one is quite cringe-worthy and his worst lyric by miles. Surely you have a better example of his writing - how about something from OAMOT which is DT's greatest lyric?

I'll agree that I too find Lie's lyrics pretty cringeworthy, and also say that I feel that OAMOT's lyrics were a detriment to the song, in that they created the worst lyrical phrasing of any DT song imo.

[Pelata]

Man...ya'll are crazy...the lyrics to "Lie" are fantastic! 

[BlobVanDam]

Things are getting just a little bit scary in here. It's a wonder I can still breathe.

[Pelata]

Things are getting just a little bit scary in here. It's a wonder I can still breathe.

"Never been much of a Doubting Thomas, but nothing breaks like a broken promise"

Killer line...

[BlobVanDam]

Things are getting just a little bit scary in here. It's a wonder I can still breathe.

"Never been much of a Doubting Thomas, but nothing breaks like a broken promise"

Killer line...

Wow, I find that entire section is ridiculous, starting from the "Mother Mary Quite contrary" bit.  It doesn't fit the mood at all imo.

Things are getting just a little bit scary. But just a little bit. Shit just got real.

[wasteland]

Tsk! How come no one has yet mentioned Surrounded? Lie, 600 and SDV can't really compare...

Once lost but I was found
When I heard the stained glass shatter all around me

I sent the spirits tumbling down the hill
But I will hold this one on high above me still

She whispers words to clear my mind
I once could see but now at last I'm blind

This is KevMo at the peak of his career! He really could call life from a cold paper sheet 

[Scorpion]

Tsk! How come no one has yet mentioned Surrounded? Lie, 600 and SDV can't really compare...

Once lost but I was found
When I heard the stained glass shatter all around me

I sent the spirits tumbling down the hill
But I will hold this one on high above me still

She whispers words to clear my mind
I once could see but now at last I'm blind

This is KevMo at the peak of his career! He really could call life from a cold paper sheet 

Yeah, that's really good, though his part from TTT (or at least what most people assume to be his) is pretty great as well. However, I really like Petrucci's and JLB's lyrics too, with Voices and LITS (Petrucci) and Disappear and Blind Faith (JLB) being some of the lyrical pinnacles.

[MoraWintersoul]

Surrounded could be regarded as one of Kev's finest lyrical moments. It's probably the most unorthodox out of all his post '89 lyrics (counting Chroma Key and OSI there as well), because the phrasing is difficult and the words don't flow with the melodies seamlessly, the stress doesn't "go" with the "dramatic points" (wish I could explain this better), it takes effort to make them fit and pronounce them good. That's usual in early DT - the unbroken spirit verse is difficult to even say fast enough, let alone sing  but not for Kevin's lyrics in particular.

[JoiseyDTLovah]

I am really hoping for a full performance of I&W at the Long Island shows. I can't fathom they would play identical sets to a home town crowd. Something is in the works.

Regarding Kevin's lyrics, OaMoT to me is some of the finest writing.  The lyrics never cease to move me. 

A dream stricken prince of a paupers descent..............    top shelf.

[pkj]

First post.  Hi. 

Been lurking for awhile, but felt compelled to post in the I&W anniversary thread.  I bought this CD in '92 or '93, loved it, and later also bought Awake.  I liked Awake quite a bit less -- in retrospect, less enough in fact that I basically drifted away from DT until several months ago -- approximately fifteen years! -- when I revisited I&W on a whim.  I fell in love with it again, and it also of course led back to Awake which I appreciate much more now than I did when I was 13.  Now, I love ADTOE, and I'm literally go backwards through the discography.  I'm back in the fold and excited about the volume of music there to (re)discover. 

I have to add, echoing others, an appreciation for KM's lyrics, especially on 'Surrounded' and 'Pull Me Under' (even if 'Learning to Live' is my overall favorite song on there).   He can paraphrase Hamlet one minute ('Watch the sparrow falling / Gives new meaning to it all / If not today nor yet tomorrow / then some other day'), and then come out with some startling emotion-laden images ('Once lost but I was found / When I heard the stained glass shatter all around me / I sent the spirits tumbling down the hill / But I will hold this one on high above me still'). 

[hefdaddy42]

KM was definitely a great lyricist for DT, but Lie is not his finest hour.

[Sketchy]

One of only two DT albums with lyrics from my two favourite DT lyricists (JM/KM)

Love the lyrics on that album, and JP's lyrics on it are also stellar (I always forget how much I love UAGM and Metropolis for their words as well as for their music).

[Pelata]

I still think "Lie" is fantastic...

Daybreak
at the bottom of lake
it's a hundred degrees I can't breathe
And I won't get out
'til I figure it out
Though I'm weak like I can't believe
So you tell me 'trust me' l can trust you
Just let me show you
But I gotta work it out in a shadow of doubt
'cause I don't know if I know you

Doing fine but don't waste my time
Tell me what it is you want to say
You sin, you win, just let me in - hurry
I've been out in the rain all day
So you tell me 'trust me' I can trust you
as far as I can throw you
And I'm trying to get out of a shadow of doubt
'cause I don't know if I know you

I freakin' love that...

[snapple]

A rare image of me after listening to IW for the first time.

[Zydar]

[Scorpion]

I still think "Lie" is fantastic...

Daybreak
at the bottom of lake
it's a hundred degrees I can't breathe
And I won't get out
'til I figure it out
Though I'm weak like I can't believe
So you tell me 'trust me' l can trust you
Just let me show you
But I gotta work it out in a shadow of doubt
'cause I don't know if I know you

Doing fine but don't waste my time
Tell me what it is you want to say
You sin, you win, just let me in - hurry
I've been out in the rain all day
So you tell me 'trust me' I can trust you
as far as I can throw you
And I'm trying to get out of a shadow of doubt
'cause I don't know if I know you

I freakin' love that...

Yeah, that part's not bad, but the "Mother Mary, quite contrary" is... well, not cringe-worthy, but pretty darn close.

I would actually say that Surrounded are KM's finest lyrics, along with SDV.

[Pelata]

I think the "Mother Mary" part is killer...it shows the extent of distrust he has for the person he's writing about, IMO. JLB delivers it perfectly too, IMO.

I just like the whole song. It's very unique and atypical in the lyrical sense, IMO.

Not everybody is going to like everything, though...

[Scorpion]

I think the "Mother Mary" part is killer...it shows the extent of distrust he has for the person he's writing about, IMO. JLB delivers it perfectly too, IMO.

I just like the whole song. It's very unique and atypical in the lyrical sense, IMO.

Not everybody is going to like everything, though...

Oh, don't get me wrong, I really like the song, but I think that the lyrics don't hold up to the usual awesomeness of KM's other lyrics.

[theseoafs]

I love the "Mother Mary" section. I don't get why people are down on it.

[DebraKadabra]

I love the "Mother Mary" section. I don't get why people are down on it.

Me either.

[TheGreatPretender]

They're different type of lyrics from his other stuff sure. Lie is a lot more badass and more... Almost more down to earth in a way. But in terms of how it's worded, it still has very much of Kevin's uniqueness. People just don't write lyrics like that.

"I had gotten used to being a soul destroyed. She comes in apparently to fill the void. All dogs need a leash and at least I'll forget it. And she would never hurt me though, she's never said it."

Beautiful.

[MoraWintersoul]

They're different type of lyrics from his other stuff sure. Lie is a lot more badass and more... Almost more down to earth in a way. But in terms of how it's worded, it still has very much of Kevin's uniqueness. People just don't write lyrics like that.

"I had gotten used to being a soul destroyed. She comes in apparently to fill the void. All dogs need a leash and at least I'll forget it. And she would never hurt me though, she's never said it."

Beautiful.

If you look at some Chroma Key lyrics, it's not THAT different, but yeah, it is a bit different than what he usually does. And you've hit the nail on the head with the part in bold

[TheGreatPretender]

I can just imagine if MP wrote those lyrics today...

"I had gotten used to being a... (MP Screaming) DESTROYED SOUL!!!" 

[pkj]

'Lie' is not as lyrical as his other stuff -- it's more literal and as you say down to earth.  But the language has a great rhythm to it, and I take it as another style that he was capable of writing in.  This is still my favorite of all though:

But don't cut your losses too soon
'cause you'll only be cutting your throat
And answer a call while you still hear at all
'cause nobody will if you won't

Pretty well sums up the drama of having to making a big, difficult, and urgent decision.

Back to I&W -- I also really like the lyrics to 'Take the Time'.  They sort of just capture simple truths:

You can feel the waves coming on
(It's time to take the time)
Let them destroy you or carry you on
(It's time to take the time)
[...]
The unbroken spirit, obscured and disquiet
Finds clearness this trial demands
And at the end of this day sighs an anxious relief
For the fortune lies still in his hands

[TheGreatPretender]

The verses in Take The Time are awesome, but the chorus, not so much. I mean, "Time to take the time". That just sounds awkward. That's like saying, "Now's your opportunity to seize the opportunity," or "It's your chance to take a chance."

[KevShmev]

KM was definitely a great lyricist for DT, but Lie is not his finest hour.

Maybe not, but they are still good lyrics; just not as great as his lyrics in Surrounded, Pull Me Under, 6:00, Space Dye Vest, etc.

[TheGreatPretender]

Maybe not, but they are still good lyrics; just not as great as his lyrics in Surrounded, Pull Me Under, 6:00, Space Dye Vest, etc.

I'd say they're about as good as 6:00. Again, with 6:00, they're more down to earth, more 'street' in a way, just like Lie, but still have that Kevin Moore magic.

[KevShmev]

The funny thing about 6:00 is, when Awake came out, a friend and I spent a lot of time reading the lyrics and trying to decipher their meanings (we spent a lot of time talking about and listening to Voices), and he nailed the general meaning of 6:00, but neither of us knew at the time that Kevin Moore was talking about himself. 

[TheGreatPretender]

Honestly, I don't think I'd be able to be a musician and a lyricist at the same time. Because like, I sing, so I don't mind singing other people's lyrics, or writing my own lyrics. But if I were a musician, and I wrote lyrics, especially personal lyrics in first person, I think I'd feel pretty weird to have someone else voicing them out instead of me.

[Adami]

Honestly, I don't think I'd be able to be a musician and a lyricist at the same time. Because like, I sing, so I don't mind singing other people's lyrics, or writing my own lyrics. But if I were a musician, and I wrote lyrics, especially personal lyrics in first person, I think I'd feel pretty weird to have someone else voicing them out instead of me.

It fades. In my current band I wrote all of the music and all of the lyrics, but I just drum in it. The first few practices it was weird hearing my singer doing my lyrics (which I actually sang on the CD), but after a while it just becomes a song.