Dream Theater Sacrilege

[nicmos]

Honor Thy Father is flippin brilliant.

agreed.  after not getting into TOT for a long time, it was streaming Honor Thy Father on the DT Myspace page that got me back into that album.  The instrumental section is a great build-up.

[Ruba]

Octavarium (song) is overrated.
Tickle section sucks
SDOIT is otherwise good song, but Overture bores me stiff
Build Me Up, Break Me Down is horrible
In the Name of God is overrated and it's chorus is overplayed
Status Seeker is fucking great
Only a Matter of Time is fucking great
The Ones Who Helped to Set the Sun is fucking great
Light Fuse and Get Away is fucking great
Voices is the weakest song on Awake
Sacrificed Sons shouldn't have an instrumental section
MP > MM
DS > JR
DT's five best albums are the five first
Disappear is mediocre
Wither sucks
Train of Thought is the second weakest DT album. Only BC & SL is worse.
Blind Faith's instrumental section isn't too long
Systematic Chaos is great
You Not Me is great
Burning My Soul is fucking badass
FII was the first album with great drum sounds
DT isn't my favourite band

[Lowdz]

I've already taken a lot of flak for the fact that I don't rate Metropolis as one of their top songs.  As for other "blasphemous" opinions, I like all of the FII versions better than their demo versions.  Also, I really like You not Me.

Me too. Apart from the Metropolis bit: that's just weird 

[Elite]

@Ruba:
For the most part, good list. Some things though; NO.

[Ruba]

@Ruba:
For the most part, good list. Some things though; NO.

That would be reeeally weird, if you've had agreed with me in everything  .

[ZKX-2099]

All these threads ever do is illustrate the differences between the "prog" guys and the "metal" guys.

[Sketchy]

I have to say, I'm a huge WDADU fan, and I also think that the actual complete songs on The Majesty Demos (as well as Particle E. Motion) are properly brilliant.

...Especially that keyboard solo on Two Far.

[MoraWintersoul]

All these threads ever do is illustrate the differences between the "prog" guys and the "metal" guys.

A lot of us are both though

[DebraKadabra]

All these threads ever do is illustrate the differences between the "prog" guys and the "metal" guys.

Not all of us are "guys", though.

[DigitalScreams]

Space-Dye Vest is one of DT's best songs.

FTFM

Octavarium is one of DT's worst songs.

Okay. I can understand the song not doing anything for you, but to be down at the bottom of the list, it has to do things badly. I just don't understand where you get that from.

1. I thought the whole "nugget" thing was already going overboard (starting with 6DoIT), and this song put it over the top.
2. It doesn't hold my attention. Normally when I first listen to a DT epic, I can't wait to see where they're going next. Subsequent listens have me waiting with anticipation for the next awesome section, while simultaneously immersed in the current one. The only anticipation I have with 8VM is pushing the skip button.
3. Sure, it's not as bad as Raw Dog. But it's worse than all of the songs on FII, and some of the songs on SC or BC&SL.

[black_biff_stadler]

All these threads ever do is illustrate the differences between the "prog" guys and the "metal" guys.

A lot of us are both though

Didn't know you were a "guy" but from what little I've seen of your posting you strike me as a nice person so I support you in all of your endeavors

[theseoafs]

Octavarium is one of DT's worst songs.

Okay. I can understand the song not doing anything for you, but to be down at the bottom of the list, it has to do things badly. I just don't understand where you get that from.

1. I thought the whole "nugget" thing was already going overboard (starting with 6DoIT), and this song put it over the top.

Well, the point of 8VM isn't nuggets. You can ignore them if you want. They're pretty unobtrusive. The music is wonderful, nuggets aside.

[chrisbDTM]

you dont even need to think about the nuggets while listening to it

[Dublagent66]

This thread is sacrilege.  In the world of music or any other form of art for that matter, only two things are for certain.  Just because you hate something, doesn't mean it sucks.  Just because you love something, doesn't mean it's great.  That's all I gotta say about that...

All these threads ever do is illustrate the differences between the "prog" guys and the "metal" guys.

I would say it illustrates the differences between constructive criticism and not.

[TheGreatPretender]

DT isn't my favourite band

Cannot compute.

[black_biff_stadler]

This thread is sacrilege.

I see no harm whatsoever in a thread that asks folks what opinions they have that greatly contradict the DTF consensus.

[DebraKadabra]

Hear hear.

Cause, tastes/opinions ARE different and stuff.

[MoraWintersoul]

Didn't know you were a "guy" but from what little I've seen of your posting you strike me as a nice person so I support you in all of your endeavors

I just chose to ignore the gender-specific-ness of the post. Thanks

[black_biff_stadler]

You're welcome

[Onno]

- TDEN is one of my favourite DT songs
- The lyrics of Outcry are cheesy
- A Nightmare to Remember is my second favourite song on BC&SL, after The Count of Tuscany
- Prophets of War is good
- New Millenium is good
- Never Enough is decent
- Constant Motion is good
- The Answer Lies Within & I Walk Beside You are good
- There is not a single DT song I dislike, even though You Not Me comes close.

[Rattlehead]

-Pretty much all of BMUBMD besides the chorus is awful (only bad song on ADToE though imo)

-I never cared for The Spirit Carries On (I don't think it's a bad song necessarily, just really doesn't do anything for me)

-I love every second of A Nightmare To Remember, The Count of Tuscany and The Shattered Fortress, and the lyrics never bothered me

[ZKX-2099]

All these threads ever do is illustrate the differences between the "prog" guys and the "metal" guys.

A lot of us are both though

I like to think I am as well.

Just seems like every time there's a thread like this the prog guys pick at the metal songs and the metal guys pick at the prog songs.

I guess it's bound to happen considering DTs great job at fusing the two.

[Rattlehead]

Also... I like TDEN and Constant Motion 

[olliemedsy]

All these threads ever do is illustrate the differences between the "prog" guys and the "metal" guys.

A lot of us are both though

I like to think I am as well.

Just seems like every time there's a thread like this the prog guys pick at the metal songs and the metal guys pick at the prog songs.

I guess it's bound to happen considering DTs great job at fusing the two.

i dont listen to much prog anymore, but im a metalhead for life, but i prefer DTs proggy stuff more than their metal stuff

[Jaq]

The Glass Prison is DT's most overrated song.
Scarred bores me to tears.
You Not Me isn't a bad song and only eats shit because Desmond Child is in the credits.
There's nothing wrong with Ministry of Lost Soul's instrumental break
There aren't as many nuggets as some fans think there are (ok, that's more of a complaint about the fans, to be fair.)
Octavarium is the most contrived song DT has ever done.
Many of the changes made with the FII demos were in fact the right ones.
Dream Theater's heaviest songs really aren't all that heavy, in the wider scheme of metal. Yes, even ToT.

[black_biff_stadler]

Dream Theater's heaviest songs really aren't all that heavy, in the wider scheme of metal. Yes, even ToT.

I've always thought that as well. Don't get me wrong, I very much like all of it except for Vacant and In the Name of God but I always thought the glaring problem with the direction of ToT's heaviness was that it seemed like JP was approaching it through the style of nu metal somewhat and not from genres that absolutely could've ignited the intensity level of it all when you consider how proficient DT is at polishing pieces into fine gems.

I think for folks that don't regularly listen to metal it's surely heavy but, for it being considered their "heavy" album, it seems to not quite have the balls on display on songs like The Mirror, Lie, and The Glass Prison. It would've been cool to see them dabble in numerous subgenres of metal like thrash, death (growling not being necessary but moreso the use of 16th note pulse rhythms at 180+  bpm), and full-blown technical metal (the good era back when bands like Spiral Architect, Cynic, Atheist, and Watchtower ruled the roost...not modern ADHD for the sake of being ADHD stuff like deathcore.)

[MoraWintersoul]

File me under the folks who don't think ToT is DT's heaviest and that DT's heaviest is not ohsoheavymethul. I mean, sure, it's metal all right, and at least 80% of the metal they did was pretty good metal. But I listen to mostly melodic types of metal and it isn't all too heavy even for me.

I found it funny when people (not on this forum, I wasn't on here back then) freaked out over Static Impulse, asking "oh my god, why is James doing something so heavy", while in reality, the type of modern melodeath on that album doesn't go very far on the heavy scale. I think it's mostly due to the (awesomely done, btw) harsh vocals - they always throw people off.

[Jarlaxle]

-Awake is my least favorite album by far
-A Change of Seasons does nothing for me. Definitely in the bottom 10% of DT songs
-The Glass Prison is no good after the intro
-I like Systematic Chaos, but still not a top 5 album
-Repentance and The Ministry of Lost Souls are probably my favorites on Systematic Chaos
-My top 3 is rounded out with The Great Debate, Hell's Kitchen and These Walls
-I don't really like Take The Time
-Scenes From A Memory is only okay, but not the masterpiece that most claim it is
-I think Octavarium is a really strong band performance (album and song)
-As a matter of fact, I think Octavarium is probably the band's best album for songwriting. Every song seems to flow perfectly, lyrics are pretty darn good. Doesn't mean the songs are the best or that it is my favorite album, but they kicked ass at songwriting.

[TheGreatPretender]

Dream Theater's heaviest songs really aren't all that heavy, in the wider scheme of metal. Yes, even ToT.

Depends on by which standards you're looking at it. I mean, if we're comparing them to Megadeth and the like, then yes, I'd agree. But honestly, when they opened for Iron Maiden, I thought that most of the songs they chose were TOO heavy. Yes, Iron Maiden is Metal, but by trying to overcompensate, I think they went overboard with their choices. Songs like Constant Motion, As I Am and Panic Attack are much heavier than anything Iron Maiden's ever done. If DT wanted to appeal to Maiden fans with their setlist, they should've went with something more melodic like In The Presence of Enemies and Peruvian Skies.

[theseoafs]

"DT's heavy songs aren't all that heavy in the wider scheme of metal" isn't sacrilege at all. That's pretty much a fact.

[MoraWintersoul]

"DT's heavy songs aren't all that heavy in the wider scheme of metal" isn't sacrilege at all. That's pretty much a fact.

I thought we already decided we're not staying on topic and are just talking about DT-randomness?

[TheGreatPretender]

"DT's heavy songs aren't all that heavy in the wider scheme of metal" isn't sacrilege at all. That's pretty much a fact.

But again, that's up to the point of reference, and any given person's own terminology. Like, I'd say that Megadeth is a heavy band. If you compare them to Cannibal Corpse, obviously they're not. But to me personally, there's a difference between Metal that's heavy, and Metal that's Extreme. There's always going to be someone out there who's heavier than the previous guy, but that doesn't mean that all of a sudden that previous band is no longer heavy. DT's heaviest songs are just as heavy as anything Disturbed ever put out, and I'd say Disturbed is a pretty heavy band.
The only difference is that DT is more dynamic, they have more variety and they do go in the other direction as well. I know some people who listen to music so heavy that they don't even consider Iron Maiden and Judas Priest to be classified as Metal at all. It's all based on any given person's point of reference.

[theseoafs]

"DT's heavy songs aren't all that heavy in the wider scheme of metal" isn't sacrilege at all. That's pretty much a fact.

that's up to the point of reference

We already set up a point of reference. Look again:

"DT's heavy songs aren't all that heavy in the wider scheme of metal"

Our point of reference is "the wider scheme of metal", which is all of metal. Compared to the heaviest bands in metal, obviously DT isn't that heavy. I don't even know why you're arguing this.

[MoraWintersoul]

I've got some sacrilege for you - I've never heard Raw Dog. It seems that it's almost mandatory in this fanbase to have heard it and mocked it relentlessly. Or defended it, if you're the 1%. Me, never heard it. Wonder if I should.

[theseoafs]

I've got some sacrilege for you - I've never heard Raw Dog. It seems that it's almost mandatory in this fanbase to have heard it and mocked it relentlessly. Or defended it, if you're the 1%. Me, never heard it. Wonder if I should.

Yeah, go ahead. If you like it, then you just discovered 8 new minutes of good music; if not, then you can make fun of it with the rest of us, which is also enjoyable. Win-win.