Some plebeians think that DT is on the decline (as far as live shows go)

[Zook]

It's because of threads like this that 'butthurt' has become quite possibly my least favorite word in the English language. 

There aren't enough likes in the world for this post.

[robwebster]

If the setlist is not rotating anymore then attendance will go down. I don't think there are many people who will pay to see the same show twice.

I doubt it'll be an issue, honestly.

The vast majority of punters only buy tickets for one show, and among those that don't only a handful will be spoddy enough to check to see what they'd been playing in a previous city, let alone compare multiple setlists. Besides, half of the people who do buy tickets to multiple gigs won't really care! Look at Rush - they never rotate their setlists but they get people following them round the country.

When it comes to setlist rotation, we're the one per cent! Feel special.

[theseoafs]

If the setlist is not rotating anymore then attendance will go down. I don't think there are many people who will pay to see the same show twice.

I don't know about this. Take Rush, whose tours regularly have two American legs with very similar setlists. They sell out stadiums every time.

[El Barto]

I had the opportunity to see Rush over two nights at Red Rocks.  Saw the first night and skipped town, since the second wouldn't have been any different.  A few months ago I got to see Tool do back-to-back nights here.  Nearly the same setlist, I think two songs were swapped, yet the shows were starkly different.  Completely different feel throughout the show.  It's not all about what songs you play.  That's part of it, but it's also how you play them.  Tool leaves room for things to breathe.  Rush and modern DT want things rigid and inflexible. 

[Adami]

Bands like Rush are also legacy bands. Dream Theater is not. People go to these shows often for very different reasons.

[theseoafs]

I had the opportunity to see Rush over two nights at Red Rocks.  Saw the first night and skipped town, since the second wouldn't have been any different.

I don't know if that's really fair. Obviously the songs would have been the same, but how could you know the shows' "feels" wouldn't be any different?

Regardless, this raises the question which is more or less at the core of this debate: why are "rigid and inflexible" live shows necessarily worse?  The fact of the matter is that regular setlist rotation isn't a common practice whatsoever, so why anyone could fault DT for going with one or two solid, well-rehearsed sets is beyond me. As for how similar the shows are from night to night, well, does it really matter if they are? Should bands really do things for the sake of people who are seeing more than one show on a particular leg, who are certainly a minority?

[theseoafs]

Bands like Rush are also legacy bands. Dream Theater is not. People go to these shows often for very different reasons.

Could you explain exactly what this means? People see bands because they like the music, no?

[Nekov]

Bands like Rush are also legacy bands. Dream Theater is not. People go to these shows often for very different reasons.

Could you explain exactly what this means? People see bands because they like the music, no?

I think in Rush's case if I had the chance I'd go to more than one show on the same tour because I've only seen them once and I don't know how much longer they'll be able to perform. In DT's case I can handle doing only one show per tour since I expect them to be around longer.

[El Barto]

I had the opportunity to see Rush over two nights at Red Rocks.  Saw the first night and skipped town, since the second wouldn't have been any different.

I don't know if that's really fair. Obviously the songs would have been the same, but how could you know the shows' "feels" wouldn't be any different?

Just a hunch, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.  Rush, like plenty of other bands and including DT, have plenty of elements in their shows sequenced to a click.  Lighting cues, backing vocals (SUBDVISION!  ), videos, pyro.  When every rendition of a song has to be 5:33 each night, you're not going to get much variance in feel.

As to why it's a problem, I don't think it automatically is.  What I've said all along is that their live show has taken a hit in the excitement department.  I've never said it was anything less in the sheer precision department. 

[theseoafs]

Bands like Rush are also legacy bands. Dream Theater is not. People go to these shows often for very different reasons.

Could you explain exactly what this means? People see bands because they like the music, no?

I think in Rush's case if I had the chance I'd go to more than one show on the same tour because I've only seen them once and I don't know how much longer they'll be able to perform. In DT's case I can handle doing only one show per tour since I expect them to be around longer.

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, I could agree with that.

[Adami]

Bands like Rush are also legacy bands. Dream Theater is not. People go to these shows often for very different reasons.

Could you explain exactly what this means? People see bands because they like the music, no?

Most people who see bands like Rush aren't going because the new album is awesome. It's because Rush has a legendary back catalog that people want to hear....over and over. It essentially turns into an event, rather than just a concert. DT hasn't gotten to that point. No one is going to see DT because they love Pull Me Under so much, nor do DT shows become events, they are concerts.

[TheGreatPretender]

Although to be fair, if Rush said they were touring and only performing the whole Clockwork Angels album, I'd still go to see them, since the new album IS awesome.

[DebraKadabra]

It's because of threads like this that 'butthurt' has become quite possibly my least favorite word in the English language. 

There aren't enough likes in the world for this post.

Agreed, on both counts.

[WindMaster]

I'll decide when I see them live in Richmond in a few weeks.

I would make the trip, but I don't have any money.

[BlobVanDam]

If the setlist is not rotating anymore then attendance will go down. I don't think there are many people who will pay to see the same show twice.

I doubt it'll be an issue, honestly.

The vast majority of punters only buy tickets for one show, and among those that don't only a handful will be spoddy enough to check to see what they'd been playing in a previous city, let alone compare multiple setlists. Besides, half of the people who do buy tickets to multiple gigs won't really care! Look at Rush - they never rotate their setlists but they get people following them round the country.

When it comes to setlist rotation, we're the one per cent! Feel special.

I do feel special!
Most people I know don't care about setlists, or even have a clue about what songs a band is playing on a tour. They'll either see them or not based on if they like the band, if they have the money, and when they last saw them. The average fan probably doesn't know about DT rotating setlists, or know that anything has changed in regards to that.
I'd be surprised if the lack of rotating setlists has had any measurable impact on ticket sales.

[Nekov]

I do feel special!

[CrimsonSunrise]

I still enjoy the shows but the lack of rotating setlists, and the lack of "Evening with" shows do make a difference in the experience.  Yeah I know the Evening shows ceased when MP was still with the band.   I loved not knowing what was going to happen song wise during a show.  I was at the WDADU anniversary show, saw them to some Floyd, and other cool things.  Bottom line is I get the sense that thing are going to be more "Surprise free" and more conventional in the future, but I seriously hope I'm wrong!!  I'll be seeing them in less than a week.... so we'll see what the energy level looks like. 

[rumborak]

Another thing that might make me stop returning regularly is the DT ticket prices. I just paid $110 for a total run-of-the-mill seat in Boston. And tickets go as high as $280. WTF.

rumborak

[Dreamer81]

I'm perfectly fine, and I think that on stage they are  more happier and confident than the last 10 years!!!the only thing i miss is "an evening with..." formula.

[PortnoyPetrucciMyung]

well mp always brought that kind of Passion to the stage which i do think mangini fails at though i have never seen dt in concert so i dont know really........... but i like MP best he is the man and I think my username tells what i like to listen to as the original REAL dream theater

[chrisbDTM]

but i like MP best he is the man and I think my username tells what i like to listen to as the original REAL dream theater

you probably don't wanna say things like that 'round here

[PortnoyPetrucciMyung]

i like new dt too... i just think they're missing that spark

[Dreamer81]

well mp always brought that kind of Passion to the stage which i do think mangini fails at though i have never seen dt in concert so i dont know really........... but i like MP best he is the man and I think my username tells what i like to listen to as the original REAL dream theater

fail, Mangini is awesome live and interact with the other guys in a perfect way!!

[chrisbDTM]

if they lost passion, which i dont think they did, then they made up for it with technicality. I dont think people fully grasp what mangini has to do to play each song unless they physically see him doing it. sure portnoy stood up and waved at the crowd but mangini is playing ridiculous things. ridiculous ambidextrous things

[rumborak]

While MP certainly added his own thing to shows, it also meant a subdued rest of the band. Now that MP is gone the band really blossomed live. It's like watching a chain smoker regain color in his face after he quit smoking.

rumborak

[chrisbDTM]

i liked portnoy so I dont wanna come across as a hater, but to me the band changed when he left. when i saw them last october in boston, the energy was through the roof and it certainly wasn't that way at the prognation2 show i went to. whether or not it is because portnoy left that the shows have more energy we'll never know. so it isn't necesarilly his fault. the band is just better now, to me at least. just saying that the portnoy era is the 'real dt' doesn't make sense

[PortnoyPetrucciMyung]

I don't think MP subdued the band.... sure he was arrogant but he was more like the ringleader always pushing the rest of the guys to do their best, especially james. he was on top and its always easiest to critisize the person there. In terms of LIVE there's really no doubt... rotating sets... evening with... prognation... covers... always great openers... now dt tour with trivium and there's still no evening withs. i'm not complaining mind you just speaking my mind.

[KevShmev]

well mp always brought that kind of Passion to the stage which i do think mangini fails at though i have never seen dt in concert so i dont know really........... but i like MP best he is the man and I think my username tells what i like to listen to as the original REAL dream theater

[rumborak]

I don't think MP subdued the band....

Come on, dude. There's certainly things one can have differing opinions about, but MP subduing elements of the band is not really in question. Besides, how do you explain the refound excitement and vigor DT has exhibited live since MP left?

rumborak

[chrisbDTM]

ehh, nothing wrong with an opinion but

evening withs stopped with portnoy still in the band, who opens for them or if they are part of a prognation doesn't change how they play, james is arguably better than he has been in years now, and rotating sets only matters if you are going to multiple shows, and it was easy for MP to do because he wrote them all, mangini has to go back and learn them. last tour they switched songs from night to night, so there has to be a reason to the consistent setlist. maybe gearing up for the dvd

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think MP subdued the band....

Come on, dude. There's certainly things one can have differing opinions about, but MP subduing elements of the band is not really in question. Besides, how do you explain the refound excitement and vigor DT has exhibited live since MP left?

rumborak

That's subjective though. Personally they look about the same to me (and I don't mean that as a good or bad thing, I just don't see any huge magical difference with MM in the band like some people do). Every tour people make the same comments about how much more lively they are on stage. It's not like MP was telling them to stand still on stage, he just happened to be the most lively.

[KevShmev]

A lot of people probably say that because of how more energetic and excited Myung has repeatedly looked on stage in the last year. Compare this picture to the stoic John Myung we had seen for years prior to 2011:

[Jaffa]

I don't think MP subdued the band....

Come on, dude. There's certainly things one can have differing opinions about, but MP subduing elements of the band is not really in question. Besides, how do you explain the refound excitement and vigor DT has exhibited live since MP left?

rumborak

That's subjective though. Personally they look about the same to me (and I don't mean that as a good or bad thing, I just don't see any huge magical difference with MM in the band like some people do). Every tour people make the same comments about how much more lively they are on stage. It's not like MP was telling them to stand still on stage, he just happened to be the most lively.

I'm sure that's true, but this time around, haven't the band themselves been talking about their renewed excitement in interviews and such?

[BlobVanDam]

A lot of people probably say that because of how more energetic and excited Myung has repeatedly looked on stage in the last year. Compare this picture to the stoic John Myung we had seen for years prior to 2011:

Wow. Earth shattering difference. Myung's face literally could not look any less excited. This has been a constant for almost 20 years, and hasn't changed.
I think you're just seeing the latent excitement from MM. That guy's loving every minute of it.

[Zydar]