Songs you hope they DON'T play on this upcoming tour

[Tis BOOLsheet]

6:00

I love the song. But Mangini doesn't play it correctly, and that annoys me.

What specifically is incorrect about Mangini's interpretation of 6:00?

[Adami]

6:00

I love the song. But Mangini doesn't play it correctly, and that annoys me.

What specifically is incorrect about Mangini's interpretation of 6:00?

Just watch videos of each playing it. Mangini seriously refuses to do the hi-hat work that Portnoy did. In fact that and the splash cymbals are the only thing I really miss from Portnoy.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

6:00

I love the song. But Mangini doesn't play it correctly, and that annoys me.

What specifically is incorrect about Mangini's interpretation of 6:00?

Just watch videos of each playing it. Mangini seriously refuses to do the hi-hat work that Portnoy did. In fact that and the splash cymbals are the only thing I really miss from Portnoy.

I'll check it out. I'm not saying he's not playing it differently, I just didn't see it on the 1st US leg since they didn't play 6:00.

[SystematicThought]

I agree with that. The accents on the hi-hats from MP are one his strong suits and actually add to the song and are sadly absent from Mangini's interpretation. Actually, it the doesn't really sound complete from the versions I've heard

[theseoafs]

Could you be any more specific (maybe with links and timestamps to videos)? I don't hear it.

[Adami]

Could you be any more specific (maybe with links and timestamps to videos)? I don't hear it.

The intro beat. You might not care, I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Could you be any more specific (maybe with links and timestamps to videos)? I don't hear it.

The intro beat. You might not care, I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing. If he didn't play it, he didn't play it. It's that simple 

How about this version:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qexcjx_qvs8&feature=fvwrel

You're referring to only the intro?

[theseoafs]

Yeah, I was just asking because I didn't hear it (and I was honestly a bit surprised, because MM's interpretations are usually on the faithful, conservative side).

[Adami]

Could you be any more specific (maybe with links and timestamps to videos)? I don't hear it.

The intro beat. You might not care, I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing. If he didn't play it, he didn't play it. It's that simple 

How about this version:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qexcjx_qvs8&feature=fvwrel

You're referring to only the intro?

Yea, he plays it 2 hands on the hi hat while Portnoy did one. He also completely lacks any groove, which is sad cause it's supposed to be all groove essentially.

All in all MM's hi hat technique is VERY different from Portnoy's and this song really shows it. And while I'm glad Portnoy's gone from DT, Mangini isn't nearly the hi hat guy that Portnoy was. Probably by choice, but his hi hat work is just.........meh to me.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Could you be any more specific (maybe with links and timestamps to videos)? I don't hear it.

The intro beat. You might not care, I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing. If he didn't play it, he didn't play it. It's that simple 

How about this version:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qexcjx_qvs8&feature=fvwrel

You're referring to only the intro?

Yea, he plays it 2 hands on the hi hat while Portnoy did one. He also completely lacks any groove, which is sad cause it's supposed to be all groove essentially.

The original doesn't groove either(nor does any MP-era material) in part because Portnoy has a straight rock feel. Nobody can ever regard MP for ever having been intended to be a groove player. So in that regard this is a pretty faithful interpretation. MM's feel is actually excellent, he's just not playing his usual behind the beat pulse he would normally.

[Adami]

We'll agree to disagree.

[BlobVanDam]

Yep.  ADTOE is the album they are touring on, so it goes without saying that songs from that will be played and featured; it is absurd to suggest otherwise.

I find it equally absurd to skip BCASL for the DVD.

Well that just makes your line of thinking absurd 

Pretty much.  They have played 6-7 songs (if I am not mistaken) from ADTOE at every single show since its release, but not playing anything from it would make as much sense as not playing anything from an album that is not new?  Okay.

In the context of the live DVD, for their second most recent album that didn't get any release at all, most definitely. Your gross oversimplification ignores those facts entirely.

edit: I just want to further clarify, because I just realized how far you're twisting my words. I never suggested they shouldn't play anything from ADTOE at all. I'm not saying they should play equal amounts from both albums either.
I'm saying that it is as important to include something from BCASL as it is to include something from ADTOE. As this is the ADTOE tour, as you've pointed out, you're right that it should have more set time devoted, but BCASL is the next priority to get a song on the DVD. It would be ridiculous to skip it entirely. If you read back earlier, I said that at the very least it should include TCOT. I think that almost everyone should agree on at least TCOT, if nothing more. I really don't see what is so difficult to comprehend here.

[RaiseTheKnife]

I hope the above just means that they include Wither in this set rotation.  They've only played it twice in the US, so I hope to see it live.  I'd be content if they represent BC&SL with this song, but I'm sure many here will disagree.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

Yep.  ADTOE is the album they are touring on, so it goes without saying that songs from that will be played and featured; it is absurd to suggest otherwise.

I find it equally absurd to skip BCASL for the DVD.

Well that just makes your line of thinking absurd 

Pretty much.  They have played 6-7 songs (if I am not mistaken) from ADTOE at every single show since its release, but not playing anything from it would make as much sense as not playing anything from an album that is not new?  Okay.

In the context of the live DVD, for their second most recent album that didn't get any release at all, most definitely. Your gross oversimplification ignores those facts entirely.

edit: I just want to further clarify, because I just realized how far you're twisting my words. I never suggested they shouldn't play anything from ADTOE at all. I'm not saying they should play equal amounts from both albums either.
I'm saying that it is as important to include something from BCASL as it is to include something from ADTOE. As this is the ADTOE tour, as you've pointed out, you're right that it should have more set time devoted, but BCASL is the next priority to get a song on the DVD. It would be ridiculous to skip it entirely. If you read back earlier, I said that at the very least it should include TCOT. I think that everyone should agree on at least TCOT, if nothing more. I really don't see what is so difficult to comprehend here.

Because you articulated your point very clearly, I understood what you were originally saying and I only speak for myself in saying that it's just as incorrect now as it was couple of hours ago. To say that on A Dramatic Tour of Events, there is an equivalence of importance in playing songs from a Dramatic Turn of Events as there is in playing songs from Black Clouds & Silver Linings is absurd. For the tour to be a sensible project, they have to play songs from the album which the tour was meant to support. They do not, for this tour to be a sensible project, have to play songs from a previous album. It is not ridiculous for them not to play songs from BC&SL because there has been nothing ridiculous about the tour and should the future dates retain the same set lists, there will be nothing ridiculous about that either. It's been an amazing tour and has been well received from thousands of DT fans around the world. The fact that they're making a DVD of this tour, A Dramatic Tour of Events, creates no similar obligation to include ANY songs that have previously never been featured on a DVD; there is nothing contradictory about this. A supporting tour--and supporting DVD, for that matter-- does, however, create an obligation to play songs from the album it supports. There is no equivalence of importance.

To play no songs from A Dramatic Turn of Events on A Dramatic Tour of Events would be an utterly ridiculous scenario WHEREAS playing no songs from BC&SL on A Dramatic Tour of Events does not create a totally irrational and ridiculous result. The fact that they're filming A Dramatic Tour of Events DVD does nothing to change this. Therefore, it is not in any way, shape or form, to any rational mind, "just as important" to include on A Dramatic Tour of Events, something from ADTOE as it is to include something from BC&SL. I'm not saying they shouldn't play Count-- I said I would gladly hear Count over some of the tunes on the tour now-- but what you're saying is that it's "just as important" on A Dramatic Tour of Events to include songs from A Dramatic Turn of Events as it is to include songs from BC&SL, and that is ridiculous. There is no equivalence of importance.

[BlobVanDam]

Well we'll have to agree to disagree, because I think you're completely flat out wrong, and let's hope DT have the sense to construct the setlist as well as MP would have in the same situation and include songs from BCASL.

[robwebster]

I'm sticking by Blob in this one - mostly. I agree with you, Kev and Bullshit, inasmuch as there isn't the same obligation to play BCSL material as ADTOE... but I think, when a band's got six DVDs out, which already give a fair account of most of the discography between them, yet they've got absolutely nothing from the last album on DVD, of course they're going to sprinkle a couple of songs from the last album into their sets as they approach DVD-day.

On the other hand, Budokan was a similar scenario, and yet SDoIT was spread fairly thin. So, you never know. But to say BCSL songs don't have slightly higher priority than others seems just as mad as saying they're shoe-ins.

Especially given, as RTK says, they've only played Wither twice in the US. Surely, no better opportunity to slap it into rotation?

[BlobVanDam]

I agree with you 100%, rob. As usual you just have a knack for wording things much more eloquently.

Completely right about SDOIT. Aside from Score, I really feel that the album has been stiffed a bit live, which is a shame as it's my favourite DT album. I see a similarity there between SDOIT and BCASL in that they're both composed primarily of longer songs, so hopefully it doesn't suffer the same fate.

[RaiseTheKnife]

DT has always been mindful to make sure that each album is well represented on DVD.  BC&SL content would be a perfect welcome back to the Ytse Jam releases, which I understand will return at some point.  We did not get an official DVD for SDoIT, but Ytse Jams Records made certain that era was well documented and released. 

[robwebster]

I agree with you 100%, rob. As usual you just have a knack for wording things much more eloquently.

I did spend about five minutes trying to scratch the phrase "give a fair account" out of my head... so, I'd contest "knack." q: But cheers.

I think, from a (possibly slightly hokey) narrative perspective, this entire era of the band's history, the moment this DVD is immortalising, is very much about the closing of one door and the opening of another... so there'd be a really cool poetry to chucking in the BCSL stuff. It's apposite, there's a great symmetry there. It'd very nicely draw a line under the last four years - you're never going to find a better moment than right here, right now.

Besides. The Count is made for DVD release.

[Sigz]

Surrounded
Pretty much everything from Awake besides Erotomania, SDV, and Silent Man (not like those last two will be played anyways)
You Not Me
Nightmare to Remember
Endless Sacrifice

[chrisbDTM]

Endless Sacrifice.

its not bad, ive just seen them do it pretty much every DT show ive been to

[Ruba]

I don't really care, since this is an American tour, but I wouldn't want to see Burning My Soul, Just Let Me Breathe, The Dance of Eternity, In The Name of God, Panic Attack and anything off of BC&SL, save Wither.

no ITNOG? Wow, i don't think i've ever seen someone dislike that song. Ever 

Hi.

I don't really care about it. Chorus is overplayed.

But I don't mind if they play it live.

[Eldomm]

I don't really care, since this is an American tour, but I wouldn't want to see Burning My Soul, Just Let Me Breathe, The Dance of Eternity, In The Name of God, Panic Attack and anything off of BC&SL, save Wither.

no ITNOG? Wow, i don't think i've ever seen someone dislike that song. Ever 

The worst on ToT IMHO....

[Frost134]

The worst on ToT IMHO....

While you are entitled to your opinion, how any reasonable human being finds a song like As I am enjoyable is beyond me. 

[Elite]

Both are bad. There, I said it, but this comes from you resident ToT-disliker.

[LCArenas]

On the Backs of Angels (Hasn't grown on me, as all first DT singles since SC)
A Nightmare to Remember
A Rite of Passage


That's Pretty much it

[Ħ]

As I Am is miles better than ITNOG

*runs runs runs*

[BlobVanDam]

As I Am is an awesome song. But ITNOG is awesomer, and a top 10 DT song.

[wolfandwolfandwolf]

Honestly, Take the Time. It's way too hard to listen James botch the "pensive fear, wasted year" bit.

[BlobVanDam]

Honestly, Take the Time. It's way too hard to listen James botch the "pensive fear, wasted year" bit.

I believe they usually skip that entire verse when playing it now, no doubt because of the strain on JLB.

[wolfandwolfandwolf]

Oh I'm sure, I haven't heard it on a recent disc. I think he does it on CIM, but that's all I know. I don't have a live show of him nailing that part though, not even from the 92-93 tour. He just growls it. This isn't like a new development either.

[BlobVanDam]

That part is just damn hard, even for IaW era JLB. He does a pretty good job of it on Live in Tokyo (I love the growl), but he's still belting it out because it's such a strain to sing those high melodies.
For JLB to even attempt it now is admirable even though pitchy, but it's much easier on his voice for the sake of the show to just skip that verse entirely when they play it.

[bosk1]

Yeah, that section is very poorly written from a vocals point of view.  It's virtually impossible to pull off live.

[KevShmev]

Maybe so, but it is immortalized forever on I&W, and I'd rather have is this way than have them dumb down the studio version just to make it easier to sing live. 

[bosk1]

Maybe so, but it is immortalized forever on I&W, and I'd rather have is this way than have them dumb down the studio version just to make it easier to sing live. 

I don't disagree.  But I just don't think they should bother trying to play it live anymore since it is impossible to do the vocals justice.  (same with Another Day)