MP's other vocals in ANTR

[ZKX-2099]

Am I the only one who has no complaints with any Portnoy vocals. I always enjoy it when they mix it up.


Also I think it's unfair to make it sound like Mike was the one forcing his vocal sections in. If James was the kinda guy who wanted only HIS vocals I'm sure he wouldn't have split duties on Static Impulse.

[lanemeyer]

I think MP has improved vocally quite a bit over the years. I actually think his voice fits the Transatlantic style of music and it has sounded the best on those albums. With that said, for whatever reason, I don't think it works so well harmonizing with James' voice and I've never been a big fan of it on DT albums because of that. Much of the time he's used it to bring a rougher, more metal sounding vocal melody and it's never really sounded good to me. I just don't think his voice is suited well to that.

[JimmyJava]

Honestly, ANTR to me is pretty damn boring to me. It's funny that one of their more sillier songs is paired with the most beautiful music they've ever written, IMO which is the Beautiful Agony part.

[ResultsMayVary]

Honestly, ANTR to me is pretty damn boring to me. It's funny that one of their more sillier songs is paired with the most beautiful music they've ever written, IMO which is the Beautiful Agony part.

Very much this.

[JimmyJava]

ignore

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I realized that MP's all over the place on that album. I mean, he sings in every song.

[BlobVanDam]

I realized that MP's all over the place on that album. I mean, he sings in every song.

It's only JLB/JP on Wither. That puts MP at 5/6 and JP at 3/6.

I actually didn't really have a point to that. Just wanted to correct it.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Oh, great. I thought that because MP sang some of the harmonies live, he also recorded them on the studio.

[ResultsMayVary]

Oh, great. I thought that because MP sang some of the harmonies live, he also recorded them on the studio.

On a completely unrelated note, I hope you celebrated 8,888 posts properly.

[BlobVanDam]

Oh, great. I thought that because MP sang some of the harmonies live, he also recorded them on the studio.

Yeah, it's a rare case where there's a three part harmony on the record that only uses two of them, rather than just JLB, or all three.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Oh, great. I thought that because MP sang some of the harmonies live, he also recorded them on the studio.

On a completely unrelated note, I hope you celebrated 8,888 posts properly.

yes, I'm still durnk

[KevShmev]

My feeling is they didn't need to be there, and never should have. James is a professional singer who have proven time and time again that he can layer his voice awesomely. Mike and John are just average joes.

Agreed.  Normally, I am in favor of using multiple singers, as opposed to one guy layering his voice, but when the vocal gap is so massive as it is between JLB and the others, I say go for the layered approach.  I will give the example I have many times before: imagine if Take the Time had been written and recorded in the 2004-2009 period; they probably would have had Portnoy and Petrucci also prominently singing the "take the time" harmony, and the original version would have suffered greatly, and the song likely wouldn't be a fan favorite like it is.

[Perpetual Change]

Yup. It'd be one thing if James layered his vocals, and then John and Mike joined in because all of their unique voices had a natural, awesome sounding effect when harmonizing together, like Queen used to do (because even though Freddie was more than capable, the other guys voices just meshed so well with his). Unfortunately, when DT take that approach, it just sounds like two normal dudes singing along with an operatic singer. Kinda like when you're at a concert and someone is singing in your ear the whole night.

[BlobVanDam]

My feeling is they didn't need to be there, and never should have. James is a professional singer who have proven time and time again that he can layer his voice awesomely. Mike and John are just average joes.

Agreed.  Normally, I am in favor of using multiple singers, as opposed to one guy layering his voice, but when the vocal gap is so massive as it is between JLB and the others, I say go for the layered approach.  I will give the example I have many times before: imagine if Take the Time had been written and recorded in the 2004-2009 period; they probably would have had Portnoy and Petrucci also prominently singing the "take the time" harmony, and the original version would have suffered greatly, and the song likely wouldn't be a fan favorite like it is.

The problem with this comparison is that if Take The Time were recorded in 2004-2009, it wouldn't have been the same vocal melody anyway, because JLB's range isn't what it was in the IaW era, so it would have been lower register regardless. So it may well have ended up not sounding as good, but the arrangement would be changed the same way whether MP/JP were in there or not. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

And if it's written in their register anyway (which isn't hugely lower than JLB sings on recent albums), it is not going to suffer from having JP/MP sing the harmonies. On the contrary, for me it gains from having the tone and depth from the 3 voices. In fact, my favourite harmonies are the ones with all three by far. I don't recall they even wrote 3 part vocal harmonies on IaW, and there aren't any on the new album either, and I actually think ADTOE suffers a bit for that aspect compared to BCASL.

The vocal harmonies on BCASL are better those on ADTOE imo, and it's due to the tone and depth they have from having 3 different voices. Now don't get me wrong, I love the chorus harmony in Take The Time, and it's easily a top 5 DT song for me (probably 3, and the only songs above it are from SDOIT), but I'd say the beautiful agony chorus is every bit as good, if not even better. And I believe it gained from having JP and MP.

[Jaffa]

Also I think it's unfair to make it sound like Mike was the one forcing his vocal sections in. If James was the kinda guy who wanted only HIS vocals I'm sure he wouldn't have split duties on Static Impulse.

I do get your point, but at this point in time, enough evidence has surfaced in interviews that I do think it's safe to suggest MP was the driving force behind those vocals. 

From an interview with Jordan Rudess:

The Cookie Monster stuff, I have trouble listening to. It's not my thing, you know?

(Trivium) have a lot of Cookie Monster vocals going on. I dunno, maybe I'm just getting old. I can't relate to it, and I'm glad that it got taken out of our mix of styles. I think we do better without it. Nobody here is really into that. Maybe Mike Portnoy had an element of his musical and personal life that captured that energy, and I think that is maybe why we had the element in our material.

And from an interview with James Labrie:

Hey we've touched on those elements in the past, the more heavy metal, almost screamo-like things, but, to be honest with you, I never personally thought that that had a part in Dream Theater's music. Yes, we are a progressive metal band but I think when we brought it to the point where we were actually close to "cookie monster vocals" on our songs, I thought we had gone too far, to be honest.

So we now have two band members suggesting that this style of vocals was definitely not their own idea.  Both of them imply that they are happier without those vocals in their music.  One of them even specifically suggests that those vocals existed because of Mike Portnoy, and implies that without Mike Portnoy, nobody in Dream Theater is interested in that style.

So, whether you like the vocals or not (I personally have no problem with them whatsoever), I think at this point it is pretty reasonable to say that MP was the only (or at least the main) reason for the inclusion of these vocals.

[Nofire]

Yup. It'd be one thing if James layered his vocals, and then John and Mike joined in because all of their unique voices had a natural, awesome sounding effect when harmonizing together, like Queen used to do (because even though Freddie was more than capable, the other guys voices just meshed so well with his). Unfortunately, when DT take that approach, it just sounds like two normal dudes singing along with an operatic singer. Kinda like when you're at a concert and someone is singing in your ear the whole night.

On the other hand, they want to be able to perform these songs live, and unless they do like Rush and sample the harmonies on stage, JP and/or someone else have to sing the harmonies live. When you start layering your own voice, especially when the range of it is completely different than the background singers, chances are that it won't sound as good live as it does on the album. I think that for a band like DT, that would be a shame, since they can reproduce (almost) everything they do in the studio live.

That being said, I think their voices blend quite well together. They just need to find the right spot for it. For example, during the Forsaken chorus or during "in peaceful sedation..." in ANTR, it sounds great. Watching the making of SC when they layer the harmonies on Forsaken gives me chills every time.

[KevShmev]

Interesting, Jaffa.  I had never seen those quotes before, but it just proves that Portnoy was the one who brought that kind of vocal style into the band (I can't believe anyone would have thought differently, especially once they completely vanished on ADTOE).  I mean, we now have quotes from JLB and JR saying that they didn't like them, Portnoy himself said that JP had a problem with them when working out how to the "Day after day" section in ANTR, so unless it was John Myung pushing them , it was Portnoy.

My feeling is they didn't need to be there, and never should have. James is a professional singer who have proven time and time again that he can layer his voice awesomely. Mike and John are just average joes.

Agreed.  Normally, I am in favor of using multiple singers, as opposed to one guy layering his voice, but when the vocal gap is so massive as it is between JLB and the others, I say go for the layered approach.  I will give the example I have many times before: imagine if Take the Time had been written and recorded in the 2004-2009 period; they probably would have had Portnoy and Petrucci also prominently singing the "take the time" harmony, and the original version would have suffered greatly, and the song likely wouldn't be a fan favorite like it is.

The problem with this comparison is that if Take The Time were recorded in 2004-2009, it wouldn't have been the same vocal melody anyway, because JLB's range isn't what it was in the IaW era, so it would have been lower register regardless. So it may well have ended up not sounding as good, but the arrangement would be changed the same way whether MP/JP were in there or not. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

That is kind of missing my main point, though.  I probably should have said it this way:

Imagine if they had had the same approach to vocals and harmonies in the early 90s that they did in the 00s; Take the Time would have had Portnoy and Petrucci also prominently singing the "take the time" harmony, and the original version would have suffered greatly, and the song likely wouldn't be a fan favorite like it is.

[BlobVanDam]

That is kind of missing my main point, though.  I probably should have said it this way:

Imagine if they had had the same approach to vocals and harmonies in the early 90s that they did in the 00s; Take the Time would have had Portnoy and Petrucci also prominently singing the "take the time" harmony, and the original version would have suffered greatly, and the song likely wouldn't be a fan favorite like it is.

You did specifically say if it was recorded from 2004-2009, so I took the hypothetical realistically. Regardless, I think it's a huge leap of baseless assumption to claim that having JP/MP in the chorus would likely diminish the fans' opinions of the song. I don't know what even supports that considering that the majority of these JP/MP harmonies have been well received. MP's harmonies are nothing like his "angry man" vocals, and I don't hear many fans have a problem with them.

[Jaffa]

I don't have a problem with MP's harmonies - in fact, I don't have a problem with any of his vocals at all; even the infamous ANTR 'RORORORORO' doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother everyone else - but I think Take the Time probably WOULD be worse off with JP/MP harmonies, just because I think TtT is perfect as is and therefore any change would be for the worse.  But that's really neither here nor there, I suppose. 

[kirksnosehair]

I am not a fan of the majority of MP's vocal contributions to Dream Theater.  I actually like his backing vocals (and his lead vocal lines too) with Transatlantic, but the stuff he laid down with Dream Theater just makes me 

[Millais]

It's just food for thought 

Hopefully, if they bring that song back into the live rotation it'll be with whatever the original melody John P. intended was.

I would actually really like that, being a big fan of ANTR, even if it's just for a live DVD, since I don't expect it in rotation this tour.

Let me know if this link works (right click and save it, I guess)
https://www.blobvandam.com/antr_jlb.mp3

A little mockup I just made so you can judge it. (sorry about the shit audio quality)

thanks for doing this. wow. didn't realise how high JLB went and how "eghweigjwegijweoijgwepji" MP's growls were at the end...

[Cranky]

Woah, I have no problem with the official part of the official song off of the official album, but I actually like the way James sang that part better.. I wish they would have kept that, to be honest. 

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Am I the only one who has no complaints with any Portnoy vocals. I always enjoy it when they mix it up.

Same here.

[XB0BX]

Wait, does Alex Lifeson not do harmonies during concerts?

[Nofire]

Wait, does Alex Lifeson not do harmonies during concerts?

He does some, but they are not that loud in the mix. His voice is much lower than Geddy's, so whenever there is a harmony in Geddy's range, it's sampled. I think Alex does some stuff in Subdivisions, Earthshine, Working them angels and a few other songs, although I can't remember all of them. If you watch a live DVD and see him kind of singing in the mic, there it is Although it's usually not loud enough to hear. Oddly enough.

[Jamariquay]

Interesting. I like James' take on the "Day After Day" part. I also like that it apparently has no "everyone survived!" ending to it either. They really should have kept it that way.

[?]

Those lyrics fit that section MUCH better than the "everyone survived" lyrics, I wish they'd kept James' part in the final version. Not that I dislike MP's vocals in that section, it's just that the lyrics were better and it was more interesting with a real vocal melody.

[MetropolisxPt1]

Honestly ive always liked all the vocal harmonies MP and JP have contributed over the years I was very suprised when I joined this forum and found so much negativity towards MP's voice, he has sounded much better then jp for years.

[Cable]

As many others have said, the Peaceful Sedation section or whatever has brilliant harmonies and melodies overall.

I think this is a song of a too many hats. We have IMO the best mellow section/song on the album, a pretty good section before the mellow part, then the "aggressive vocals" formerly death metal vocal section. Also to tack on at near the end, we have the blast beat part. The last two parts basically should have been destroyed, but is really the most glaring symptom of the apparent problem in DT before.

As BlobVanDam was saying before about the DMetal vocals and JLB's clean ones; I do find it highly convenient that according to MP the JLB part alone was missing, or something to that effect. But the MP DMetal part alone was available. The only explanation is the two vocals parts were already merged and saved, and accidentally the JLB alone part was discarded. I do not know how it works in a professional studio, but something tells me they would save every little single part, merged or not, until a session is over.