MP's other vocals in ANTR

Jamesman42 · October 12, 2011, 06:34:42 PM

I just had a thought to throw on BC&SL for the first time in a long while.

The vocals on "Without warning, out of nowhere!" all the way to before "Stunned and bewildered..." have MP underneath JLB singing the lyrics harshly. I never noticed this for some reason. And it's loud. So weird to notice that now.

Anyway, it makes it all the more weirder to hear MP on those parts. Discuss this feeling.

Zook · October 12, 2011, 06:37:18 PM

Sounds like spoken word style to me, nub. Kinda like what Jon Schaffer does in some Iced Earth songs. Not a harsh thing about them.

GOOD DAY SIR!

Jamesman42 · October 12, 2011, 06:38:48 PM

They sound psychosane, now that you commented on it.

Zook · October 12, 2011, 06:40:08 PM

Yeah, now you know.

I SAID PLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH!

ResultsMayVary · October 12, 2011, 06:40:31 PM

I don't love them, but there not as cringe-worthy as "DAY AFTER DAY," so I tolerate them.

Jamesman42 · October 12, 2011, 06:46:36 PM

I also just realized I can't even listen to ANTR the whole way through anymore. It's so boring to me past Beautiful Agony. And I am starting to think the part before BA is not very good as well.

These orcus pills work wonders.

E.S. · October 12, 2011, 07:16:54 PM

I've always liked Mike's backing vocals whenever they aren't "growls", and that part really works IMO.

Oh, and the Beautiful Agony part is almost the best they have ever done. Such a shame it's not repeated.

GunsOfThePatriots · October 12, 2011, 07:17:08 PM

GOOD VOCALS

Perpetual Change · October 12, 2011, 07:32:42 PM

Quote from: Jamesman42 on October 12, 2011, 06:34:42 PM
I just had a thought to throw on BC&SL for the first time in a long while.

The vocals on "Without warning, out of nowhere!" all the way to before "Stunned and bewildered..." have MP underneath JLB singing the lyrics harshly. I never noticed this for some reason. And it's loud. So weird to notice that now.

Anyway, it makes it all the more weirder to hear MP on those parts. Discuss this feeling.

My feeling is they didn't need to be there, and never should have. James is a professional singer who have proven time and time again that he can layer his voice awesomely. Mike and John are just average joes.

WildeSilas · October 12, 2011, 07:33:27 PM

Quote from: Jamesman42 on October 12, 2011, 06:46:36 PM
I also just realized I can't even listen to ANTR the whole way through anymore. It's so boring to me past Beautiful Agony. And I am starting to think the part before BA is not very good as well.

Honestly, most of that song doesn't seem that great to me. The subject matter and the vocals are kind of silly, much like most of the other songs on that album. But yeah, I'd not noticed the MP vocal part under there until you mentioned it.

OsMosis2259 · October 12, 2011, 07:38:10 PM

I don't mind the MP vocals on the "Without warning" part. The DAY AFTER DAY part is awful though.

Metrovarium · October 12, 2011, 07:41:52 PM

I like the guitar and guitar riffs in the song, but that's pretty much it. Oh, and some of JLB's vocal melodies. I don't necessarily dislike MP's backing vocals, but I don't really care for them, either. I wish he had limited his vocal contributions to stuff like the AA Suite and Prophets of War (yes, I actually kind of like the little rap part).

contest_sanity · October 12, 2011, 08:20:12 PM

Quote from: Jamesman42 on October 12, 2011, 06:46:36 PM
These orcus pills work wonders.

nattmorker · October 12, 2011, 08:40:15 PM

I really love that song, start to finish, including the vocals. But maybe that's because I love death metal (even when I know MP doesn't growl like Mikael Åkerfeldt); I love the music and the vocals/lyrics. I always find it weird when someone has an opinion completely different from what I think, but that's the interesting thing about everyone having their own oppinions.

energythief · October 12, 2011, 08:42:38 PM

Quote from: Perpetual Change on October 12, 2011, 07:32:42 PM
My feeling is they didn't need to be there, and never should have. James is a professional singer who have proven time and time again that he can layer his voice awesomely. Mike and John are just average joes.

Agreed. James is such a talent, it's amazing that Mike seemed to discount his "instrument" at times.

Infinite Cactus · October 12, 2011, 09:24:09 PM

I always have been pretty cool with Mike and John's backing vocals as far as singing is concerned. I'm a huge vocals fan so I actually wish they had done more harmonies. I enjoy the Without Warning vocals. However, Day After Day etc is awful. Like I don't have anything constructive to say. It's just my least favorite part of any DT song that isn't Vital Star or TMOLS. I enjoy Mike's voice on TGP, WIMH, and pretty much any time he sings. I'm even ok with POW spoken part. But Day After Day. Not at all. I also think prefer him doing call and response vocals, or harmonies. I'm not too in love with him singing co-lead save for Fatal Tragedy and Home.

skydivingninja · October 12, 2011, 09:36:55 PM

To be fair, James would suggest that Mike/John do backing vocals in places where he thought they'd fit better. It wasn't just MP being a control freak or anything. He improved them throughout his time in the band (especially live), but I wish they were kept to a very bare minimum in the studio. I just like James' voice too much.

BlobVanDam · October 13, 2011, 12:18:01 AM

I really like MP's spoken vocals underneath the singing. He also does it in ITPOE, and several others. I'd say it's possibly Pantera influenced, since Phil Anselmo did that all the time, especially on later albums.

Ħ · October 13, 2011, 01:01:33 AM

Quote from: BlobVanDam on October 13, 2011, 12:18:01 AM
I really like MP's spoken vocals underneath the singing. He also does it in ITPOE, and several others. I'd say it's possibly Pantera influenced, since Phil Anselmo did that all the time, especially on later albums.

farsight · October 13, 2011, 01:40:33 AM

Quote from: Infinite Cactus on October 12, 2011, 09:24:09 PM
However, Day After Day etc is awful. It's just my least favorite part of any DT song

This. "Did they ever see the red light?!?" is the worst lyrical line in any DT song ever.

The backing vocals in without warning also punches a bit too much through and it sounds like its floating in the mix, some subtle effects like the one in the verses of This Dying Soul could have made it much better. I just feel like my ear is getting tickled by that part.

Peaceful sedation however is in the top 5 of DT backing vox, but it's more of JP singing than MP there.

tristl · October 13, 2011, 02:29:52 AM

Quote from: Jamesman42 on October 12, 2011, 06:38:48 PM
They sound psychosane, now that you commented on it.

Good one

Nofire · October 13, 2011, 02:46:31 AM

In another thread on this forum, the "Day after day" lyrical section was discussed, and how it connects to the storyline of the song. Some people claimed that such an agressive sound to a lyrical section that is basically saying that everyone survived, which would make it a happy ending, was unfitting. Some people also claimed that it's not a happy ending at all, but rather saying that even though everyone survived, the memory of the accident is still haunting and comes back to the person in nightmares, which to me seems much more realistic.

With that in mind, I think it would be interesting to hear the lyrics being sung/spoken in a similar way that James does during the "Hello mirror..." section of TDS, but with a touch of "wringing in bed from a nightmare" (not sure about the word wringing, but according to google translate, it's the right word

). I think the contrast between that singing style and the agressive music would create a creepier sound, kind of like the verse of Slipknot's song Duality. Then the big "ROOOOAAAAAARRRRR" at the end wouldn't be necessary

BlobVanDam · October 13, 2011, 02:54:58 AM

They should get Morgan Freeman to re-record that spoken verse. Tell me that wouldn't make it awesome. You can't, because it would make it awesome.

If I didn't have people around, I'd totally do the impression myself.

Perpetual Change · October 13, 2011, 02:56:21 AM

I've wanted to hear the original, JLB only version for ages. I always thought it was curious that MP didn't have that one, but had all the other ones (i.e., the ones which were clearly worse than the actual album cut). When I saw the ones with the most potential for awesome were left out I couldn't help but think that it'd been done intentionally to make it seem like the final cut was the best option.

BlobVanDam · October 13, 2011, 03:12:43 AM

Did they actually record a JLB only one?

Ħ · October 13, 2011, 03:16:22 AM

Probably, but that's not the way it is on the stems.

Nofire · October 13, 2011, 03:22:31 AM

Quote from: BlobVanDam on October 13, 2011, 03:12:43 AM
Did they actually record a JLB only one?

MP did some post on his forum where he explained the whole story behind this passage. According to that post, JLB was originally singing something different, and he posted sound clips with the different versions they recorded (JLB, JLB+MP, MP, cookie monster). Out of those versions, I got to say that the MP only actually sounded the best, although I still think they could have done it better. If someone has a link to this post, please post it here!

farsight · October 13, 2011, 03:43:50 AM

Quote from: BlobVanDam on October 13, 2011, 02:54:58 AM
They should get Morgan Freeman to re-record that spoken verse.

Or the dude that did the spoken parts in Voices which is one of the most intense and butt muscle tighteningest music ever. Hell, even Lou Reed.

Metabog · October 13, 2011, 04:14:09 AM

I dare say they sound... MOTHAF***ING PSYCHOSANE.

Mladen · October 13, 2011, 04:43:35 AM

Quote from: BlobVanDam on October 13, 2011, 03:12:43 AM
Did they actually record a JLB only one?

I don't think so, they probably just rehearsed it. When Mike posted the clips on his own forum two years ago, there was no James only version. It was Mike doing the real Cookie Monster deal, the version with Mike and James (I thought this one had potential, had it been executed a bit better), and the final version.

Perpetual Change · October 13, 2011, 05:24:19 AM

Quote from: Mladen on October 13, 2011, 04:43:35 AM
Quote from: BlobVanDam on October 13, 2011, 03:12:43 AM
Did they actually record a JLB only one?
I don't think so, they probably just rehearsed it. When Mike posted the clips on his own forum two years ago, there was no James only version. It was Mike doing the real Cookie Monster deal, the version with Mike and James (I thought this one had potential, had it been executed a bit better), and the final version.

I think it's pretty safe to say they did record it. The one with both Mike and James singing is there, so I'd imagine originally there was one just with James. If not, I think you can just listen to the one with Mike AND James singing and pretend Mike's not there. If you do that, you kinda get an idea that the original vocal line was much different, as were the lyrics. It might have been the best of all options, but we'll never know since it's not available to us.

BlobVanDam · October 13, 2011, 05:46:48 AM

Quote from: Perpetual Change on October 13, 2011, 05:24:19 AM
Quote from: Mladen on October 13, 2011, 04:43:35 AM
Quote from: BlobVanDam on October 13, 2011, 03:12:43 AM
Did they actually record a JLB only one?
I don't think so, they probably just rehearsed it. When Mike posted the clips on his own forum two years ago, there was no James only version. It was Mike doing the real Cookie Monster deal, the version with Mike and James (I thought this one had potential, had it been executed a bit better), and the final version.

I think it's pretty safe to say they did record it. The one with both Mike and James singing is there, so I'd imagine originally there was one just with James. If not, I think you can just listen to the one with Mike AND James singing and pretend Mike's not there. If you do that, you kinda get an idea that the original vocal line was much different, as were the lyrics. It might have been the best of all options, but we'll never know since it's not available to us.

According to MP's post, the JLB vocals were added later as a "counterpoint" to the MP vocals. So I'm pretty sure JLB's vocals in the first half were only written in response to MP's part, so I highly doubt the original lyrics were any different to what we got in the final.
However, JLB is singing the first regular verse of that section over the second half, and I think it's safe to say that the vocal melodies there are what we would have gotten for that section, so you can probably judge from that.
Maybe they recorded the whole section that way, although given that MP said a sample was not available, I'd say he legitimately had no recording of it. If they recorded it at all, MP probably raised the issue and recorded his part that same day, and so they probably didn't have a burned mix of that version, which they probably did at the end of every day (I'm guessing here).
If we assume that I'm right that JLB's vocals over the second half are what we would have gotten, then there's no reason to assume MP is intentionally hiding the JLB only version to hide or manipulate people into believing the final was the best version.

Perpetual Change · October 13, 2011, 05:52:55 AM

It's just food for thought

Hopefully, if they bring that song back into the live rotation it'll be with whatever the original melody John P. intended was.

Mladen · October 13, 2011, 05:56:19 AM

Quote from: Perpetual Change on October 13, 2011, 05:52:55 AM
It's just food for thought

Hopefully, if they bring that song back into the live rotation it'll be with whatever the original melody John P. intended was.

Which might be interesting, I gotta say.

BlobVanDam · October 13, 2011, 06:00:19 AM

Quote from: Perpetual Change on October 13, 2011, 05:52:55 AM
It's just food for thought

Hopefully, if they bring that song back into the live rotation it'll be with whatever the original melody John P. intended was.

I would actually really like that, being a big fan of ANTR, even if it's just for a live DVD, since I don't expect it in rotation this tour.

Let me know if this link works (right click and save it, I guess)
https://www.blobvandam.com/antr_jlb.mp3

A little mockup I just made so you can judge it. (sorry about the shit audio quality)

News:

MP's other vocals in ANTR