Update on the supposed legal issues regarding the DT/Portnoy split

[reo73]

Not shocked by this at all and also not worried about DT losing their name.  I'm not a lawyer but I am willing to bet that JP and JM have as much right to that name at MP did.  Not sure about the lyrics thing but if DT decides not to ever play a MP penned song again not a huge deal to me in the grand scheme of things.

My personal opinion on all this is that MP is on a downward spiral with his career that at this point may be unstoppable and I have always figured he would implode if DT came out the back end of this split stronger which they seem to be doing in spades.  I mean look at the signs already...DT is getting more pre-release accolades than ever before, MM seems to have found wide-spread favor with fans, they all seem rejuvenated emotionally, the album is slated to sell well, the tour will be successful.  On the other hand MP got ousted by A7X, is now trying to kick off a band that is an opening act for an opening act with songs that seem to be getting more criticism than praise, has his hand in various insignificant musical forays (by financial standards), and has a forum in which everybody is discussing DT in one massive thread.

I would be disgruntled too.

[snapple]

Hey! The baseball thread will be bigger on there soon! If it wasn't for that thread, I probably wouldn't even go on mp.com

[Aniland]

We would all be disgruntled in this situation, but that doesn't really matter.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

holy shit, portnoy. this is messed up, and so is he.

[Implode]

 

Why can't everyone just get along?

[Quadrochosis]

dream theater is not losing their name.

[DTGeek]

What a sad situation.  Just think about how much money both MP and the band are going to have to waste in legal fees just to get this settled.  It will cost at least tens if not hundreds of thousands.  It's just so incredibly disappointing to see this from Portnoy, to say the least (I won't say more for obvious reasons).

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Also, Portnoy has no chance of winning anything against the DT guys. I mean, it's one guy and his own lawyer against 4 guys (including the two founders of the band) and the support of a big label.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Why can't everyone just get along?

because mike portnoy

[SnakeEyes]

Ok, so what all  songs would we lose if MP lyrics are out:

My opinion:

ACOS

-

NOOOOOO!!!!!!

The Mirror

- it had a good run, R.I.P. "The Mirror"

The entirety of the AA saga (though only TGP strikes me as "notable")

- GOOD.  Sucked anyway, in my opinion.  

Take The Time

- not true.  They could just rewrite the part that Portnoy came up with.  

Half of 6DoiT

- won't miss it

RTK

- who cares, they never play it anyway

Home

- THAT sucks

Constant Motion

- GOOD, sucks.  

8vm

- only parts of it right?  

Strange Deja Vu

- That would suck

Burning my soul

- eh, can live without it

Honor thy father

- sucks, who cares

Just met me breathe

- won't miss it

Never enough

-

New millenium

- This would suck

So, yeah, that's not bad.  

[chrisbDTM]

i was alright with portnoy til this. i suspected this would happen, but a (sort of) confirmation solidifies it. too much 'it was MY baby' etc. stop please. carry on with your stuff

[axeman90210]

Seriously guys, this article was translated into German and then back into English, and ZeppDT (a lawyer) just highlighted why some of these assumptions most the thread have been operating on may be overblown. Let's all just take a hit on our inhalers and chill

[Adami]

Seriously guys, this article was translated into German and then back into English, and ZeppDT (a lawyer) just highlighted why some of these assumptions most the thread have been operating on may be overblown. Let's all just take a hit on our inhalers and chill

I pointed out the same thing a while ago, I was blown off. People want to speculate and make stuff up I guess.

[EuropaEndlos]

Don't know how any of this works... Not liking Portnoys actions from that article, but hey let's face it, it's not 100% fact, so it is some sort of rumor and until we get the full story what can we do?  

I can't see DT losing their name, and they'll always be DT in my opinion...  If Myung left, I think they could still be DT...  However if Petrucci left for some reason, I think then it'd be time to disband.  No offense to Myung, but I always looked at it as Portnoy / Petruccis band.  Now that Portnoy is gone, I really look at it as Petrucci as the "front man who doesn't sing."  Better term would be band leader I suppose!  That being said, there's no better choice than JP who seems like a very fair individual.  

---

Some questions I have is does a band have to pay royalties to another band if they perform one of their songs live?  If Dream Theater plays YYZ live at a random show do they have to pay Rush/Whoever owns the rights to YYZ.  If Dream Theater plays YYZ and then puts it on a live release, then yeah I'd assume they would have to pay royalties to the record label or Rush or whoever owns YYZ.  

If you have to pay royalties for both of those cases, then if you tease a song, and start your show with the intro to say YYZ and then go into one of your songs, you have to pay royalties for playing 13 seconds of YYZ?  

It's strange to me, I was under the assumption you only paid royalties if you used it for a live CD/DVD or some sort of release.  

---

All I know is that the Misfits got their name back after Danzig left, and Jerry Only certainly ruined that IMO.  The Graves stuff was okay, and would have been much better if it had a different name instead of trying to follow Danzigs Misfits legacy...  

Danzig was the Misfits

Portnoy wasn't Dream Theater...  

If Danzig lost, no way Portnoy is winning the name Dream Theater.  That's just how I look at it!

[EuropaEndlos]

@SnakeEyes --

Portnoy did have the two best sections of Octavarium...  So not hearing those two, but hearing the other three, especially since Portnoys are in the middle would be kinda weird. 

[Ravenheart]

Wow, I really don't know what to say, but I'm sorry for the guys. This will more than likely cut any threads of friendship that Mike had left with them.

[JayOctavarium]

Rena is here O.o

[Ħ]

[nikatapi]

Well everything discussed here is speculation until we get to hear something official about this.
To be honest i find it normal if this kind of thing happened, don't forget that it is a lot of money made and to be made from DT, and MP for sure had a great role all this years in making DT such a big name. So obviously now there are conflicting interests.
I used to be romantic about music, but the truth is despite being artists, the guys from DT also make a living out of this, and obviously everybody involved wants to get as much as possible.

[aXygnus]

To think I started drumming because of Portnoy.

I hope he stays far away from DT.

[Nick]

Snake, continued comments like your last will are not acceptable.

[j]

Not surprised that there is a legal battle of some sort.  Would be a shame if it ends up being something as bad as what people here are speculating.

And it's funny that people are saying that THIS is what has finally made them lose respect for Portnoy.  This situation, which we know literally next to nothing about, not his countless immature, selfish actions and statements over the past months.

-J

[Adami]

To be honest, if the name DT was REALLY up in the air, I doubt they'd be out planning over a years worth of touring under that name.

[millahh]

To be honest, if the name DT was REALLY up in the air, I doubt they'd be out planning over a years worth of touring under that name.

Well, that could also be to strengthen their claim...

[Adami]

To be honest, if the name DT was REALLY up in the air, I doubt they'd be out planning over a years worth of touring under that name.

Well, that could also be to strengthen their claim...

Yes, but it would also hurt them even worse if they lose. I doubt their lawyers would OK it.

But I doubt the name is in any way at risk, I doubt even Portnoy would sink that low. He's probably seeking a severance package or royalty deals or something. Maybe a clause that states Mangini isn't allowed to spit on tour or something.

[jsem]

If they ever lose their name, they should rename themselves as Pike Mortnoy.

But seriously, MP is just extremely jealous that they decided to go on without him with a new drummer. He needs to get over this, and carry on making good music - because he can do that. He seems not to be able to channel the fact that DT wanted to continue with or without him, he finds it unacceptable - and now seeks retribution. Quite sad actually.

I hope they can solve their differences and actually get back to being friends, and that both parts continue to write great music.




Also:

Ok, so what all  songs would we lose if MP lyrics are out:

ACOS
The entirety of the AA saga (though only TGP strikes me as "notable")
Take The Time
Home
8vm
Strange Deja Vu

I weep for these.

[ddtonfire]

I don't see any issue with MP taking a lawyer. If there are monies/royalties involved, then of course one should take a lawyer, to assure that what's worked out is best for all parties and legally appropriate.

[XJDenton]

But I doubt the name is in any way at risk, I doubt even Portnoy would sink that low. He's probably seeking a severance package or royalty deals or something. Maybe a clause that states Mangini isn't allowed to spit on tour or something.

And yes, just to reiterate ALL THESE CLAIMS ARE BASED ON SPURIOUS EVIDENCE AT BEST. So lets not jump to conclusions and not automatically judge someone on actions that they may not have done.

[Elaitch]

It's virtually impossible to make anything out from that interview, both regarding the nature of the lawsuit(s) at hand (it is hinted, but JLB neither confirms nor discards it) or the severity of them. Frankly, this could be a minor issue, and the comments JLB and JP makes might be based on that they think the whole thing is just silly, not necessarily a big issue.

I wish some people in this thread would've thought twice before being all like "I lost all my respect for MP now". At least wait for an official statement of some sort...

[Metropolis pt.-1]

I really did try to keep my respect for Portnoy. Even up until now, despite it going down, I still had some. But now its almost reached zero. I kinda doubt he will take the name Dream Theater, that would seem a little too much, but I can see him wanting royalties. I just can't see how he can even have the audacity to want sue them, yet he is the one who left the band willingly. Wow Mike. Wow.

Also, yes I know its spurious evidence and we don't know the accuracy, but we can still speculate.

[RuRoRul]

Sad, I thought Portnoy was just being stupid with his choice of what he said on the internet and didn't realise that people would jump down his throat even if he was "Just stating my opinion like I always do!" Obviously I'm not going to read too much into it and I guess some sort of legal / money issue was pretty likely, but just the fact that this is going on and has now (at least partially) come to light doesn't do much for Portnoy's reputation. I hope the problem isn't as severe as some people here are theorising. If it is MP has sunk to a new low.

Also, random comment but no one else seemed to mention this:

You would think so. They're probably the second biggest name on that label after Slipknot now. A change of name would be disastrous for both band and label.

Isn't Nickelback also on the label?

[Pinga]

Nickelback is a piece of shit.

The only thing I have to add is that I REALLY hope the band is not limited to what songs they can play live. It would be a crying shame. Besides, JP and JR wrote the majority of the material, even with MP writing the lyrics, so it would be unfair, too.

[RuRoRul]

Nickelback is a piece of shit.

Thanks but I'm pretty sure they are a bigger name than Slipknot or Dream Theater... I was amazed when, after seeing On The Backs Of Angels wit 1 million views, I saw a Nickelback video on the Roadrunner page with 30 million. I guess I didn't realise they were still such a big name, probably because I only ever see people posting how terrible they are in the places I look.

[wammabe]

Nickelback is a piece of shit.

The only thing I have to add is that I REALLY hope the band is not limited to what songs they can play live. It would be a crying shame. Besides, JP and JR wrote the majority of the material, even with MP writing the lyrics, so it would be unfair, too.

I also agree with the rest of this post.

I'm disappointed and I've only known DT for around an year. I can't imagine the people who have been following him for years and the people who were hooked to his drumming videos and all that.  

[Jarlaxle]

And I think I heard the other day that Nickelback is done with Roadrunner, or is that after their next album?