Update on the supposed legal issues regarding the DT/Portnoy split

[EuropaEndlos]

Nickelback is a piece of shit.

Thanks but I'm pretty sure they are a bigger name than Slipknot or Dream Theater... I was amazed when, after seeing On The Backs Of Angels wit 1 million views, I saw a Nickelback video on the Roadrunner page with 30 million. I guess I didn't realise they were still such a big name, probably because I only ever see people posting how terrible they are in the places I look.

Bigger sure, any good?  Hope no one here thinks that...  To each his or her own, but my god, the radio is complete trash today... 

[darkshade]

Nickelback is a piece of shit.

Thanks but I'm pretty sure they are a bigger name than Slipknot or Dream Theater... I was amazed when, after seeing On The Backs Of Angels wit 1 million views, I saw a Nickelback video on the Roadrunner page with 30 million. I guess I didn't realise they were still such a big name, probably because I only ever see people posting how terrible they are in the places I look.

That's because they're one of those bands no one ever admits to liking.

"You know how I know you're gay? Cause you like Nickelback."

[Adami]

Nickelback is a piece of shit.

Thanks but I'm pretty sure they are a bigger name than Slipknot or Dream Theater... I was amazed when, after seeing On The Backs Of Angels wit 1 million views, I saw a Nickelback video on the Roadrunner page with 30 million. I guess I didn't realise they were still such a big name, probably because I only ever see people posting how terrible they are in the places I look.

Bigger sure, any good?  Hope no one here thinks that...  To each his or her own, but my god, the radio is complete trash today... 

No offense, but considering the conversation..........what does it matter if DTF members think Nickelbacks music is good? They're bigger than DT will ever be, and that's the important part of it.

[Ħ]

Guys  be quiet because Rena is posting.

[Gorille85]

Nickelback is a piece of shit.

Thanks but I'm pretty sure they are a bigger name than Slipknot or Dream Theater... I was amazed when, after seeing On The Backs Of Angels wit 1 million views, I saw a Nickelback video on the Roadrunner page with 30 million. I guess I didn't realise they were still such a big name, probably because I only ever see people posting how terrible they are in the places I look.

Bigger sure, any good?  Hope no one here thinks that...  To each his or her own, but my god, the radio is complete trash today... 

No offense, but considering the conversation..........what does it matter if DTF members think Nickelbacks music is good? They're bigger than DT will ever be, and that's the important part of it.

Yep.

Guys  be quiet because Rena is posting.

wut

[3xodus]

Nickelback is a piece of shit.

Thanks but I'm pretty sure they are a bigger name than Slipknot or Dream Theater... I was amazed when, after seeing On The Backs Of Angels wit 1 million views, I saw a Nickelback video on the Roadrunner page with 30 million. I guess I didn't realise they were still such a big name, probably because I only ever see people posting how terrible they are in the places I look.

Bigger sure, any good?  Hope no one here thinks that...  To each his or her own, but my god, the radio is complete trash today... 

No offense, but considering the conversation..........what does it matter if DTF members think Nickelbacks music is good? They're bigger than DT will ever be, and that's the important part of it.

Yep.

Guys  be quiet because Rena is posting.

wut

She was viewing the thread for quite a while I think is what he was saying.. Probably just reading the fan reactions to it.

[Ravenheart]

ITT: People completely miss RuRoRul's point and fail at reading comprehension for the sake of shitting on Nickelback.

[Secor]

Yep

[goo-goo]

Regarding the legal issues that have to be sorted out, I wonder if it is regarding them being able to play the songs live that Portnoy wrote the lyrics to without them having to pay him royalties.  I know that Pink Floyd was not able to play certain Roger Waters-penned songs when he left the band back in the 80s.  If so, that is a pretty low move.  I mean, I wonder if Kevin Moore was paid royalties all of those years every time they played Lie, Surrounded, Pull Me Under, 6:00, etc.

KM was paid a lump of money so he wouldn't get anymore royalties from his lyrics/songs. Same for DS.

[ariich]

ITT: People completely miss RuRoRul's point and fail at reading comprehension for the sake of shitting on Nickelback.

ITT: People completely miss any kind of common sense or rational response to things.

[Cruithne]

I looked up the Rogers/Floyd feud.  The parallels are creepy.

Except for the bit where Roger Waters was the significant creative force behind the 3 albums prior to him quitting the band.

I get the impression that MP barely (if at all) wrote any music for DT, he just prodded the actual writers in certain directions and even then I'd suggest his impact only became noticeable from Train Of Thought onwards (and detrimentally so as far as I'm concerned).

Granted he wrote some lyrics (and thus vocal melodies), but the aural evidence we have so far suggests he wasn't even close to an equal quarter of the main song-writing team.

I'm holding back my initial response to this interview for now, but if it is true then I can't see me touching a single thing from MP in the future and will be encouraging others to do likewise.

[hefdaddy42]

I would like to reiterate that until and unless we hear something from either someone in DT or from MP, we have no idea what any specifics are, and anything is pure speculation.

I would also like to say that in a situation like this, where someone leaves a business relationship, there are bound to be some legal formalities.  This is not unusual, and it also doesn't necessarily make MP a bad guy, especially since we don't know the specifics.  

TBH, it sounds like the interviewer knew that SOMETHING was going on, and decided to be a jerk in the questions he asked, and JLB and JP both went out of their way to play it down.  So that's it.

[Ben_Jamin]

I doubt he'll get a lot...especially the name since he left on his own. Which he should've known the consequences of doing.

[Aythesryche]

Nickelback is a piece of shit.

Thanks but I'm pretty sure they are a bigger name than Slipknot or Dream Theater... I was amazed when, after seeing On The Backs Of Angels wit 1 million views, I saw a Nickelback video on the Roadrunner page with 30 million. I guess I didn't realise they were still such a big name, probably because I only ever see people posting how terrible they are in the places I look.

Bigger sure, any good?  Hope no one here thinks that...  To each his or her own, but my god, the radio is complete trash today...  

No offense, but considering the conversation..........what does it matter if DTF members think Nickelbacks music is good? They're bigger than DT will ever be, and that's the important part of it.

It's a completely irrelevant statement actually. I personally have nothing against other bands I don't appreciate musically, I just simply have nothing to do with them. If the music doesn't move me, I simply look elsewhere. So they are a bigger band? What does that mean exactly? McDonalds is a bigger food company than most, what does that make them? The best? lol. It's all relative to what your tastes are and what moves you.

Dream Theater is what it is and you either like them your you don't. Same goes with Nickelback. To compare them in this manner with anyone else is kinda pointless. Just turn the volume up, regardless of what you enjoy.

[Setebos]

Won't judge MP just yet. I can't imagine that he is actually trying to steal the name - and even if he was, there is no way in hell that he could actually be successful with that.
Probably has got something to do with royalties or stuff like that.

It would be interesting to see the original German text though - at least for me that would eliminate half of all possible translation quirks. But I guess it can't be found online, can it?

[Kotowboy]

Which Dream Theater is Rena married to ? Is it Petrucci DreamTheater or He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named Adrenaline Mob ?

[Adami]

ITT a German reporter makes everyone hate a Jew.

[Nighthawkwill7]

Which Dream Theater is Rena married to ? Is it Petrucci DreamTheater or He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named Adrenaline Mob ?

Rena is JP's wife.

[emtee]

I'm not jumping to any conslusions. I fully expected nasty legalities. We'll see how it all plays out. Personally
I'd like to see it kept behind closed doors forever. As a fan I just want good music from both sides and I would
prefer not to have to choose sides.

[dongringo]

Well, it doesn't surprise me one bit that there are 'legal issues that need to be sorted out.' I knew this would be the case. Not that I know everything, just that who wouldn't think that MP would try to get all he can from the band? Especially since DT went on without him. <  

[WildeSilas]

Either way, I suggest if you want anything from ytse you better get it while the gettins' good because I don't see this ending well in that regard.

[zxlkho]

ITT a German reporter makes everyone hate a Jew.

[Perpetual Change]

Wow. All I  can say  is I hope this isn't true.

[ReaPsTA]

Maybe I'm being dramatic, but I'm not seeing where the people saying to calm down are coming from.  When it was bought up, LaBrie unloaded on Portnoy, and Petrucci reacted with the same kind of discomfort he did when responding to Portnoy through their lawyers was brought up.  If this was just a legal thing, they would have just talked about it an that would have been it.  The obvious discomfort is a bad sign.

Trying to say "it's not so bad" only sets yourself up for unhappiness when it does get bad.

[ReaPsTA]

I looked up the Rogers/Floyd feud.  The parallels are creepy.

Except for the bit where Roger Waters was the significant creative force behind the 3 albums prior to him quitting the band.

Portnoy wasn't a significant creative force in Dream Theater?  Every decision in the band had to have his stamp of approval.

[Adami]

Maybe I'm being dramatic, but I'm not seeing where the people saying to calm down are coming from.  When it was bought up, LaBrie unloaded on Portnoy, and Petrucci reacted with the same kind of discomfort he did when responding to Portnoy through their lawyers was brought up.  If this was just a legal thing, they would have just talked about it an that would have been it.  The obvious discomfort is a bad sign.

Well it's obviously not good, but that doesn't mean it's the worst case scenario.

[ReaPsTA]

Well it's obviously not good, but that doesn't mean it's the worst case scenario.

Certainly not.  But this isn't a business discussion with lawyers involved.  A lot of bitterness and emotion is involved, and that has a high potential to turn ugly when the stakes are so high.

[The Letter M]

I looked up the Rogers/Floyd feud.  The parallels are creepy.

Except for the bit where Roger Waters was the significant creative force behind the 3 albums prior to him quitting the band.

Portnoy wasn't a significant creative force in Dream Theater?  Every decision in the band had to have his stamp of approval.

That's like saying the President creates laws and bills - all he does is give his "stamp of approval", but it's the Legislative Branch that makes the laws and passes them up to the President.

Not that I'm saying MP was President of Dream Theater, but if you say every decision had to get his approval, it almost sounds like that. Whether we like to admit it or not, he did have a lot of (final) say in what did and didn't happen in DT-land, between track orders, set lists, art direction, production, and even musical arrangements.

However, I would agree with Roger Waters probably had a lot more musically creative force in PF than MP did in DT.

-Marc.

[The Dark Master]

I looked up the Rogers/Floyd feud.  The parallels are creepy.

Except for the bit where Roger Waters was the significant creative force behind the 3 albums prior to him quitting the band.

Portnoy wasn't a significant creative force in Dream Theater?  Every decision in the band had to have his stamp of approval.

That's not quite the same thing as being the main composer of all the songs or music, though, as Waters was for Floyd, and as Timo Tolki was for Startovarius.  Someone (I think Paul Northfield) compared Mike's roll in the band to that of a film director.  Much like a director guides the movie making process, so too did Mike guide the music making process for DT.  If we use this analogy, then the other members of DT would be the writers (especially JP and KM) actors and set designers.  MP may have had the final say in the creative direction of the band, but he hardly did most, let alone all, of the actual creating by himself.

[Jamesman42]

^But maybe JP and JR starting writing riffs that they knew MP would approve and backing away from things that would think MP wouldn't approve. I mean, JR said that he is trying things that they wouldn't have otherwise done (like instead of doubling/tripling a riff, doing something different over the riff)

[Super Dude]

Good God, Portnoy.

[The Dark Master]

^But maybe JP and JR starting writing riffs that they knew MP would approve and backing away from things that would think MP wouldn't approve. I mean, JR said that he is trying things that they wouldn't have otherwise done (like instead of doubling/tripling a riff, doing something different over the riff)

Oh, I'm certain that was the case, just like an actor or visual designer my only submit performances or designs that they feel the director will approve.  My point was, however, that the actual creative process in Dream Theater was most definitely a collaborative effort, and cannot be credited solely to one guy.   Being the director of a creative group is completely different then being the sole creator, and considering that the music in Dream Theater is almost always credited to the band or the four instrumentalists, I highly doubt Mike has any strong basis for claiming "I am the band".

Conversely, Waters and Tolkki wrote the overwhelming majority of the material for Floyd and Strat, respectively (Waters  pretty much wrote The Wall entirely by himself).  If Waters couldn't stop the other guys in PF from continuing to use the name, I wouldn't worry about the DT moniker.

[Super Dude]

The Wall except three songs or so, I think.

[ReaperKK]

^But maybe JP and JR starting writing riffs that they knew MP would approve and backing away from things that would think MP wouldn't approve. I mean, JR said that he is trying things that they wouldn't have otherwise done (like instead of doubling/tripling a riff, doing something different over the riff)

Conversely, Waters and Tolkki wrote the overwhelming majority of the material for Floyd and Strat, respectively (Waters  pretty much wrote The Wall entirely by himself).  If Waters couldn't stop the other guys in PF from continuing to use the name, I wouldn't worry about the DT moniker.

I won't argue the point that Waters wrote The Wall (except a few songs) but Gilmour did a majority of the musical writing along with Richard Wright. Hell on the early albums (barring The Piper) Gilmour recorded bass lines because Roger couldn't play them properly. Waters was essentially the lyrical force that was PF and David/Richard were the musical contributors. However there are some gray areas though.

As for the MP situation, we know very little, if I were to guess it's over ytse jam records. I do really enjoy reading all the craziness of this thread.

[FluffyMcFluffington]

I looked up the Rogers/Floyd feud.  The parallels are creepy.

Except for the bit where Roger Waters was the significant creative force behind the 3 albums prior to him quitting the band.

Portnoy wasn't a significant creative force in Dream Theater?  Every decision in the band had to have his stamp of approval.

That's not quite the same thing as being the main composer of all the songs or music, though, as Waters was for Floyd, and as Timo Tolki was for Startovarius.  Someone (I think Paul Northfield) compared Mike's roll in the band to that of a film director.  Much like a director guides the movie making process, so too did Mike guide the music making process for DT.  If we use this analogy, then the other members of DT would be the writers (especially JP and KM) actors and set designers.  MP may have had the final say in the creative direction of the band, but he hardly did most, let alone all, of the actual creating by himself.

This is why I'm glad that Portnoy is no longer in the band.  The "film director" role in a band like Dream Theater, to me, is unnecessary.  I'd rather get a sense of unpredictability when anticipating an upcoming DT album, which is what I haven't felt with SC and BC&SL.  The Portnoy growls, control over JLB's vocals, and AA suite songs are all examples of elements that have been present over and over again under the direction of Portnoy.  Now with ADToE, variety is suddenly kicking in.