New Album Title (A Dramatic Turn of Events) and Track Listing Revealed

[Jamesman42]

It is long, but maybe their choice of editing songs is better than, say ANTR or TBOT, so we get the best parts.

[orcus116]

That had more to do with arrangements as well. One of ANTR's biggest problems was it felt like parts of three separate songs hastily sewed together.

[Jamesman42]

Yeah, it felt like excess fat though. To me, OTBOA indicates that they've learned to trim the fat really well. It felt like 10 steps forward IMO

[Jirpo]

I hope Far From Heaven is a Hell's Kitchen type piece... that would be awesome!

[Super Dude]

Sort of a mindboggling thought: the last time DT had a closer track under 10 minutes, it was a Kevin Moore song.

Wait a minute.  In fact, the only two times they had a closer under 10 minutes it was a Kevin Moore song.

Unless y'all consider Losing Time/Grand Finale SDOIT's final track in which case y'all are fools.

[Perpetual Change]

You shot yourself in the foot by using "track" instead of "song" there 

[Hayden]

Well, like almost everyone else, the song lengths have gotten me very excited. I must say that I was sort of hoping for an epic, but since LaBrie said that the album would be around 80 minutes long, that hope sort of left me a while ago. But, it really isn't actually that much of a big deal. I mean, the longest song on 'Scenes from a Memory' - my favourite Dream Theater album - is only 12:52. On 'Images & Words', which I also love (but to a lesser degree), can only boast an 11:29 track as its longest. Heck, even on 'Train of Thought' (perhaps my second or third favourite DT album), the longest track - "In the Name of God" (which is easily within my top 5 DT songs) - just clocks in at over 14 minutes. So why on earth should I be disappointed by the non-appearance of an 'epic' on this album? If the pattern is anything to go by, given the shorter song lengths, this should end up being one of my favourite Dream Theater albums.

Also, I must say that the 'epics' do occasionally fall short of that title. I mean, sure, "A Change of Seasons" and "Octavarium" are both wonderful - they're perfect in almost every way and they're beautifully written and constructed pieces of music. However, this hasn't always been the case. For example, "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" had some truly excellent moments, but it also had a lot of moments that bored me, failed to hold my attention, or simply didn't appeal to me musically. As for "In the Presence of Enemies", that had some very, very cool moments (e.g. 9:17-11:19 of Part 2), but it too lacked memorable moments. When I think back to it, a lot of it is really just a blur of impressive instrumentation played over the top of some rather bland, mediocre compositions. And as for "Count of Tuscany"... well, that was just a disappointment for me. That song had so little that actually encouraged repeat listens - repeat listen which I have given to the track in large quantities, in an attempt to try and get myself to like the track, but it's simply failed to grow on me. There is just not enough substance to the song. In short, there's too much 'fat', and too few moments that are genuinely appealing to my ears.

So, I'm actually very comfortable and happy with these song lengths. Like Jamesman and a few others have pointed out, hopefully this will mean that DT have improved their editing and 'fat-cutting' skills on this occasion. Because, as much as I love long songs, I do feel that some of DT's material was getting a little overblown, especially on 'Black Clouds & Silver Linings'.

Speaking of rock, I now have a very good feeling about Outcry. It sounds like a metal type song, and if it's over 11 minutes, I have high hopes for it.

For some reason, I'm having the exact same feelings towards it. The title gives me the idea that track will have a bit of power and aggression behind it. And now that I've seen the song length, it almost ensures its epicosity. So, hard prog rock plus epic elements surely means that this track will turn out to be a killer.

It's Awake all over again. Except probably better.

Gosh, well I hope so. If this album turns out being of the same standard as 'Awake', I will be hugely disappointed.

I've never understood thinking an album is 'too long' unless it has extremely obvious filler. As long as all of the songs are good, I'll take as much as I can get.

Yeah, this is how I've always thought of it as well.

[Jirpo]

Nice first post!

[BlackInk]

Yeah, totally agree about what you said about the track lengths and The Count of Tuscany. The track lengths feel fresh and even though the album lacks the epics I usually like I still feel it is going to be great, really looking forward to hearing all the +10 songs, Outcry, Bridges in the Sky and especially Breaking All Illusions.

[Hayden]

Nice first post!

Thank you for the warm welcome.

[...]really looking forward to hearing all the +10 songs, Outcry, Bridges in the Sky and especially Breaking All Illusions.

Oh, absolutely! I really can't wait to see what Myung's got up his sleeve, lyrically.
I'm actually also really looking forward to hearing LaBrie's lyrical work, on whatever track(s) that/they might be (for some reason, I get the feeling that "Outcry" might be one). That guy can really write when it comes to lyrics, if you ask me. It was a shame that 'BC&SL' (perhaps their lyrically weakest album) featured none of his writing. 

[Chrissalix]

That had more to do with arrangements as well. One of ANTR's biggest problems was it felt like parts of three separate songs hastily sewed together.

Repeating sections too. The beautiful agony section (while amazing!) is twice as long as it should be, as was the solo section and there are unnecessary blastbeats at the end. I reckon some of the post solo heavy part is fairly superficial though. Song should be about 12 mins long tops. And that chorus wasn't a fit at all. You can tell they write by section instead of writing songs.

[hefdaddy42]

I mean, the longest song on 'Scenes from a Memory' - my favourite Dream Theater album - is only 12:52. 

Only on a prog forum. 

Welcome, Hayden.  Nice post.

[BlackInk]

I'm actually also really looking forward to hearing LaBrie's lyrical work, on whatever track(s) that/they might be (for some reason, I get the feeling that "Outcry" might be one). That guy can really write when it comes to lyrics, if you ask me. It was a shame that 'BC&SL' (perhaps their lyrically weakest album) featured none of his writing. 

Yes, Outcry would be my guess too for some reason. It kinda just sounds like something LaBrie would say (only he is physsicly able to pronounce the word 'Outcry' in the band you see).

And once again I agree with what you say about BC&SL, it is lyrically weak.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

canadians outcry all the time

[GasparXR]

canadians outcry all the time

Especially when we boast about our free* healthcare.

[Benedettosoxfan]

I hope Far From Heaven is a Hell's Kitchen type piece... that would be awesome!

Well, Hell is about as "far from heaven" as you can get, so it's possible

[JPX]

Nice first post!

Thank you for the warm welcome.

[...]really looking forward to hearing all the +10 songs, Outcry, Bridges in the Sky and especially Breaking All Illusions.

Oh, absolutely! I really can't wait to see what Myung's got up his sleeve, lyrically.
I'm actually also really looking forward to hearing LaBrie's lyrical work, on whatever track(s) that/they might be (for some reason, I get the feeling that "Outcry" might be one). That guy can really write when it comes to lyrics, if you ask me. It was a shame that 'BC&SL' (perhaps their lyrically weakest album) featured none of his writing. 

With or without MP, the lyrics will be typically Dream Theater, in that they will be nothing to write home about.

[MasterShakezula]

Nice first post!

Thank you for the warm welcome.

[...]really looking forward to hearing all the +10 songs, Outcry, Bridges in the Sky and especially Breaking All Illusions.

Oh, absolutely! I really can't wait to see what Myung's got up his sleeve, lyrically.
I'm actually also really looking forward to hearing LaBrie's lyrical work, on whatever track(s) that/they might be (for some reason, I get the feeling that "Outcry" might be one). That guy can really write when it comes to lyrics, if you ask me. It was a shame that 'BC&SL' (perhaps their lyrically weakest album) featured none of his writing. 

With or without MP, the lyrics will be typically Dream Theater, in that they will be nothing to write home about.

Um, what would you say is a typical example of non-MP DT lyricisms? 

[Super Dude]

I mean JLB typically writes political tunes, a la ItNoG and Sacrificed Sons.

[JPX]

Nice first post!

Thank you for the warm welcome.

[...]really looking forward to hearing all the +10 songs, Outcry, Bridges in the Sky and especially Breaking All Illusions.

Oh, absolutely! I really can't wait to see what Myung's got up his sleeve, lyrically.
I'm actually also really looking forward to hearing LaBrie's lyrical work, on whatever track(s) that/they might be (for some reason, I get the feeling that "Outcry" might be one). That guy can really write when it comes to lyrics, if you ask me. It was a shame that 'BC&SL' (perhaps their lyrically weakest album) featured none of his writing.  

With or without MP, the lyrics will be typically Dream Theater, in that they will be nothing to write home about.

Um, what would you say is a typical example of non-MP DT lyricisms?  

Assuming this is directed at me, I'm confused because my statement is quite clear in that I don't think anyone in DT write's good lyrics. And even with MP's departure that will not change.
It doesn't bother me though, I don't need good lyrics from DT.

[MasterShakezula]

How/why would you describe DT's lyrics as being weak?

I find their lyrics to work quite well, and I'm curious as to what makes them not work too well for you. 

[TheGreatPretender]

I mean JLB typically writes political tunes, a la ItNoG and Sacrificed Sons.

That was on DT albums though. On his Solo work, there isn't that much political stuff. Especially Static Impulse. Half of that was like... dark love songs.

[bosk1]

And then there are also DT lyrics of his that have nothing to do with political subjects, such as Vacant and Disappear, for example.

[SystematicThought]

I mean JLB typically writes political tunes, a la ItNoG and Sacrificed Sons.

ITNOG was a Petrucci lyric

[chrisbDTM]

i hope JM delivers, cause theres gonna be a riot if his lyrics arent good

[antigoon]

I wish the record wasn't so long but it's good to see some "shorter" songs in there

[Super Dude]

Shows how much I know.

[Mbarak]

Shows how much I know.

You could have said you meant to say PoW instead of itNoG

Woot I just realizes PoW is the same acronym for prisoners of war - nuggetz

[MasterShakezula]

Shows how much I know.

You could have said you meant to say PoW instead of itNoG

Woot I just realizes PoW is the same acronym for prisoners of war - nuggetz

I hope ADTOE has its share of nuggets and that DT12 has even more.  Honestly, they are really cool little trinkets, and a fun little diversion in the DT canon.  (Should this have gone in the controversial opinions thread?)

[Super Dude]

Actually I think that was MP's thing anyway, so we're definitely gonna see less of those.

[JPX]

How/why would you describe DT's lyrics as being weak?

I find their lyrics to work quite well, and I'm curious as to what makes them not work too well for you. 

None of them do anything for me. I know that's not a great comeback for any kind of discussion but it's really all I've got on the subject.

[Dream Team]

How/why would you describe DT's lyrics as being weak?

I find their lyrics to work quite well, and I'm curious as to what makes them not work too well for you. 

They're not weak compared with 90% of popular music. They're weak when compared to artsy singer-songwriter types (I know that's a generalization). I know someone will respond by citing the awesome dark lyrics of some xyz heavy band, but a lot of that stuff is necro and nihilist just for the sake of coolness, and doesn't have much substance.

[Vajra]

In regards to good lyrics. The following songs are beautifully writen lyrics...

Innocence Faded
Voices
The Silent Man
Lifting Shadows Off a Dream
Learning To Live
Wait for Sleep
Under a Glass Moon
Metropolis
Pull Me Under
Lines In The Sand
Trial of Tears
A Change of Seasons
Disappear
Vacant

I haven't read/heard any lyrics from a band that makes the above lyrics seem "weak" as some have used to describe DT's lyrics.

[Super Dude]

I think you're, and I mentioned this way back when Systematic Chaos was released, and I'm sure on average DT lyrics are better than from other groups, particularly popular groups. However I think we probably hold them to a higher standard and so we want them to be able to do better than X song.

[Jirpo]

I hope Far From Heaven is a Hell's Kitchen type piece... that would be awesome!

Well, Hell is about as "far from heaven" as you can get, so it's possible

I quite like DT's lyrics, sure they have written some bad ones especially on the last 2 albums but there are a lot of really great ones.