The reason why there wont be another I&W, Awake or Scenes?

[Lotion]

This struck my mind earlier today. I don't know if you discussed this before. I was thinking, how can DT ever write an album at the same level of Scenes, Awake or I&W when they're writing everything in the studio in a couple of months. Before I&W they had songs like ACOS, Parts of Erotomania, an instrumental version of PMU, Metropolis, Puppies on Acid and many more ideas I'm sure they spent a lot of time on. They made ACOS evolve for 6 (or 4, did they write it in 89 or 91?) until they released it, I think that's why it got so perfect.

Even with FII they had lots of songs wich never was released with the album, and they even made the Metropolis pt.2 demo wich had lots of ideas that was put into scenes.

What do you guys think? After FII I've never heard a so called "rare" song from DT. Do you think they've even made an unreleased song since then?

[bosk1]

I'm not sure why you seem to think they won't write another album "at the same level" as those three.  They've written six others that are just as good.  No reason to believe they'll suddenly stop.

But I'm also not seeing the connection with unreleased songs.  What is it that you are trying to say?

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I don't think DT will ever write another album as good as those either, but I don't think the time they are taking in the studio has anything to do with it. It has to do with their overall mindset.

[Evo]

Many many people (myself included) have been saying this for the past decade or so.

[Jamesman42]

I think 8VM and BC&SL are stellar albums that live up to those 3 albums.

[fadetoblackdude7]

They WILL make another masterpiece as good as those 3......when, that remains to be determined.

[ariich]

With all long-standing bands, anything they released will be disliked by at least some of the fanbase, so I certainly don't expect them to make anything as beloved as their earlier albums.

But as for quality, almost all their albums are better than Scenes, and most are roughly as good as Awake and not far off I&W, in my opinion. So I'm sure theyll continue to release albums just as good.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I&W is just such a monster when you think about it. Three indisputable Dream Theater classics - TtT, Met, LtL - and two more songs I think most would agree are Dream Theater classics - PMU, Sur. I don't think any of their other stuff matches that. Of course, there is more that goes into an album than just the great songs it has, but still. It's pretty crazy.

[ariich]

Three indisputable Dream Theater classics - TtT, Met, LtL

I think Darkes would dispute the first of those...

[rumborak]

But as for quality, almost all their albums are better than Scenes

lol

[perfectchaos180]

Never really thought of it that way but you are completely right. As long as songs don't get refined over the years through demoing and such, they will probably not reach another album of that caliber.

[Setlist Scotty]

This struck my mind earlier today. I don't know if you discussed this before. I was thinking, how can DT ever write an album at the same level of Scenes, Awake or I&W when they're writing everything in the studio in a couple of months.

Ummm...aside from Puppies on Acid and some parts of Erotomania, the music for Awake was written in the space of about 3 or 4 weeks. Just FYI.  

[7StringedBeast]

But as for quality, almost all their albums are better than Scenes

lol

trololol

[Nighthawkwill7]

No matter how good the next albums are, There will always be a hardcore of fans that will dismiss them as being inferior to I&W, Awake or SFAM regardless of how kickass and well written they are.

You just can't please everyone.

[Lotion]

I'm not sure why you seem to think they won't write another album "at the same level" as those three.  They've written six others that are just as good.  No reason to believe they'll suddenly stop.

But I'm also not seeing the connection with unreleased songs.  What is it that you are trying to say?

Many seem to think a lot of their albums is nothing like those i mention. Personally I love all the albums. Hard to find out my point with the unreleased songs, made sense in my head. I mean, they had a catalogue to pick songs of for the earlier albums. Like, they worked more on the ideas, and they could choose wether songs were good enough or not.

I don't think DT will ever write another album as good as those either, but I don't think the time they are taking in the studio has anything to do with it. It has to do with their overall mindset.

Yeah, sure. Of course the difference is now, they go into studio and make an album. Back then they probably jammed all the time, wich resulted in way more ideas.

[ricky]

But as for quality, almost all their albums are better than Scenes

lol

im just curious ariich, why do you think so little of scenes? it truly is one of their best, bro.

[Jamesman42]

^It's their best by consensus, but I personally don't dig it that much. Ranks 8th or 9th for me right now.

[TAC]

But as for quality, almost all their albums are better than Scenes,

What? No you didn't....

I actually think we're in for one hell of an album! So to the OP..it's coming right up!

[Infinite Cactus]

^It's their best by consensus, but I personally don't dig it that much. Ranks 8th or 9th for me right now.

Quoted for truth. But a less than stellar(for me at least) Dream Theater album is still one of the best things ever of all time.

[orcus116]

Many good points. I think this current core (sans Portnoy) has shown their musical potential in Six Degrees, which is on its own little level of great. If they can rediscover the creativity and abstract approaches they used on that album they'd be primed for another great album.

[Dr. DTVT]

If they are going to make another masterpiece, it will be the next album because they feel like they have something to prove - move on without Portnoy, just like they did when they released I&W (trying to break through), Awake (prove they could follow up success), Scenes (prove they could be successful without label interference), and 6DoIT (move to a heavier sound). 

[emindead]

This struck my mind earlier today. I don't know if you discussed this before. I was thinking, how can DT ever write an album at the same level of Scenes, Awake or I&W when they're writing everything in the studio in a couple of months.

Ummm...aside from Puppies on Acid and some parts of Erotomania, the music for Awake was written in the space of about 3 or 4 weeks. Just FYI.   

That's because the band was at their prime.

[Implode]

As for I&W and Awake, they won't ever be recreated sadly because that style is long gone. Dream Theater really is a progressive band, and I doubt they'll ever write songs that are in the same style as those that are coming on 20 years old now.

As for Scenes, I think they have a chance considering that album has a more modern sound.

[bosk1]

I mean, they had a catalogue to pick songs of for the earlier albums. Like, they worked more on the ideas, and they could choose wether songs were good enough or not.

Actually, no, that's not true.  For the most part, the only album where they had lots of leftover material was FII.  There were a couple of extra things here and there, but not a lot.  To Live Forever is one.  The only other notable piece is ACOS, and that was only left off of I&W because the label would not let them include it.

[LTE777]

They wrote the LTE1 & LTE2 Albums in a week if that and they blow I&W, Awake and SFAM out of the water musically.

They are that good that they can write a masterpiece from the get go.

The difference on I&W, Awake & SFAM....they always had something to prove.

Up until now, they didnt!  Now they do again...makes you push yourself a lot harder.

[DreamerTV]

But I'm also not seeing the connection with unreleased songs.  What is it that you are trying to say?

As far as i know after SFAM they've changed their way in writing songs, being in the studio with a live setting and jamming. Before they used to make demos, that leaves them the opportunity to work again in something already written, and to choose, mainly the producer did it, what to include in the album, or if it was the case to write something else.
Maybe the point was that having something pre-written to work with before entering to the studio allows them to have a more complete idea of what they were doing right or wrong, and unreleased songs comes from that type of production. I'll say that, as mentioned in some post, LTE 1&2 proved that also the jamming formula can work, but it's harder, 'cause you have to be completely focused on writing great music in a short space of time. 

[Blackfield]

Ok. For me the dynamic and musicality in the songs is gone with the last couple of albums. I don't buy that they always are changing as a band and trying to create something new. They have not relased anything new since Octavarium. Since then it's been a mess as I see it. The dynamics is replaced with balls too the walls metal songs (that is not what DT should do imo). I feel that every album up to ToT brought something new to the table (...whether you liked it or not).

I personally think that masterpieces like I&W, Awake and Scenes has this atmosphere surrounding them, making the whole album feel like a unit. I almost never listen to just one song from these albums, I listen to the whole creation cause it's the way it's supposed to be heared. With the last couple of recordings I don't even listen to songs, I just listen to parts. Because now a days not even the songs feels like a unit.

[ReaperKK]

I see this discussion on band boards all the time "we'll never get cd x again" but I think it'd be an endless endeavor to recreate the feel of any album. Even if the band had the same lineup all these years people would still be saying "Man I wish the magic from I&W was there". It's never going to be, people find an album they really enjoy and attach themselves to. It's all subjective.


Fuck I'm so scatter brained right now, I'll clean this post up later.

[Dream Team]

I don't think it should be that difficult for the band to create another concensus "masterpiece". A few keys would be:

1. Great vocal melodies (keep away from rapping and pseudo-growling)
2. Write cohesive instrumental sections
3. More poignant lyrics

With those 3 things, they have enough talent and greatness in them to write a classic album any old time they want.

[7StringedBeast]

4.  More groove, more heavy, less METUHLLL

[Zantera]

Looking back at the albums post-6DOIT, I really can't expect the band to make anything as good as Awake, SFAM and 6DOIT. (their 'holy'-trio IMO)
Would I want another album as good as those? Obviously, but I feel like it's been going slowly downhill with ToT, 8VM, SC and BC&SL, and I would just be happy with a solid album.
My biggest issue with the last 4 seem to be that I don't find myself wanting to spin them, sure they have a few good songs here and there, but I'd much rather have an album where I enjoy all the songs.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

There's the old cliche that "Lightning never strikes the same place twice".  For me, that's akin to what's being discussed here.  Each of these albums were awe-inspiring moments.  IMO, something that spectacular cannot be recreated, only mimicked.  They could set up all the same amp and guitar settings as they did for I&W, same drum and keyboard settings, same instruments, everything, and end up with a new sounding album played on old equipment.  They could create another masterpiece, but it won't be able to be assessed on the level of I&W or Awake.  They were a lot younger then and (IMO) had a lot more to prove.  In my head, that's a good reason why those albums came out so awesome and are so revered among fans.

[KevShmev]

The next album has the best chance to come somewhat close to their best albums, since Dream Theater, like most bands, have created their best albums when they have had something to prove, and following the departure of Mike Portnoy, you know they will be eager to prove they can still do it despite the loss one of the founding members.

[JPX]

I&W is just such a monster when you think about it. Three indisputable Dream Theater classics - TtT, Met, LtL - and two more songs I think most would agree are Dream Theater classics - PMU, Sur.

I don't think Take the Time is a classic by any means. I would say that Pull Me Under, Metropois and Learning to Live are the undisputed classics with Under a Glass Moon being a close 4th.

As for I&W and Awake, they won't ever be recreated sadly because that style is long gone. Dream Theater really is a progressive band, and I doubt they'll ever write songs that are in the same style as those that are coming on 20 years old now.

Exactly, it's the same reason that Symphony X only has flashes of their neo-classical side anymore. Time changes things (unless your Yngwie). Personally I would love that style to have a resurgence but I can't blame these artists for not revisting it.

[j]

They're very different people at different places in life than they were when they wrote I&W and Awake.  Nothing they create now is going to be too much like those albums.  But I think it's possible, albeit unlikely, that they could put out another album of similar *quality*.

-J