Is Score Fake?

Orbert · April 08, 2011, 11:46:15 AM

Ouch!

Okay technically one is the mod wheel and one is the pitch wheel, but still... ouch!

Nick · April 08, 2011, 11:51:25 AM

Quote from: Adami on April 07, 2011, 05:42:38 PM
According to the band its 95% real. That's good enough for me. What you're noticing is probably editing and synch problems. Along with you thinking you can more accurately associate the subtle nuances of musical performance than you actually can.

This.

Quote from: bobs23 on April 07, 2011, 06:03:36 PM
With out a doubt outside of the UAGM fix there are no overdubs. If you are referring to seeing sound out of sync with the rear screen, that is normal. There was about a second delay in the video due to the switcher processing time and the time it took for the signal to get to the screen.

This.

Quote from: andreas_adelek on April 07, 2011, 11:46:10 PM
Maybe im wrong

And definitely that.

JPX · April 08, 2011, 11:58:55 AM

Is Score fake? Bad choice of words perhaps.

Is Score overdubbed in sections? Well we know UAGM was fixed and it's standard to clean up notes here and there.

Still a strange question though considering that they are one of the tightest bands on the road, playing at a premium venue, in front of their most hard core fans, for their 20th anniversary, with an orchestra. So Im really not sure what you're trying to insinuate.

SinisterMinisterX · April 08, 2011, 12:53:49 PM

Quote from: Adami on April 08, 2011, 09:24:32 AM
Perhaps you fail to realize that JR has two mod wheels, one of which doesn't bend pitch.

To expand on Adami's astute observations: JR has a lot going on, generally speaking. Just because he's seen doing something doesn't mean that something is meant to produce a sound. Even with all his sounds programmed and most of the switching done with pedals, you can still see him working controls on his keyboards at times.

The Presence of Frenemies · April 08, 2011, 12:58:38 PM

Quote from: Dream Team on April 08, 2011, 08:31:38 AM
Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about DT vocals when 90% of popular artists these days can't sing a note and just auto-tune in the studio and lip-synch on the road.

Not only this, but if their next DVD was any indication, DT doesn't clean up the vocals. It'd be mighty weird to overdub Score and then leave the mediocre audio on CiM as it is.

Aramatheis · April 08, 2011, 01:06:28 PM

Quote from: Adami on April 08, 2011, 09:24:32 AM
JR has two mod wheels, one of which doesn't bend pitch.

It bends reality.

The Presence of Frenemies · April 08, 2011, 01:11:32 PM

Quote from: Aramatheis on April 08, 2011, 01:06:28 PM
Quote from: Adami on April 08, 2011, 09:24:32 AM
JR has two mod wheels, one of which doesn't bend pitch.
It bends reality.

It's a good thing someone finally came up with a plausible theory!

JayOctavarium · April 08, 2011, 01:37:38 PM

Quote from: Aramatheis on April 08, 2011, 01:06:28 PM
Quote from: Adami on April 08, 2011, 09:24:32 AM
JR has two mod wheels, one of which doesn't bend pitch.
It bends reality.

Ninegauge · April 08, 2011, 03:27:33 PM

I don't know much about Chaos in Motion, but from what I've seen it doesn't seem to attempt to be the polished product Score is; there are plenty of mistakes in the vocals and from the instrumentalists, and the AV quality is nowhere near as good. With Score the band knew they only had to worry about one night, and they would have been really up for it. But Chaos in Motion is taken from numerous nights, so it would be much harder to stay focused.

And what's this about mod wheels? It's the OASYS he's using on Score...

Orbert · April 08, 2011, 04:01:19 PM

Ha, good point. I just saw someone mention the "mod wheels" which always bugs me. On a standard two-wheel keyboard, one is pitch and one is modulation.

Adami · April 08, 2011, 04:04:35 PM

Quote from: Orbert on April 08, 2011, 04:01:19 PM
Ha, good point. I just saw someone mention the "mod wheels" which always bugs me. On a standard two-wheel keyboard, one is pitch and one is modulation.

Well they both modulate something, one is pitch the other is usually tone. I just said mod wheels to keep it short and to the point. Even if they were joy sticks instead wheels, I just wanted to get the point across quickly.

CrimsonSunrise · April 08, 2011, 04:06:32 PM

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on April 07, 2011, 05:26:15 PM
Quote from: andreas_adelek on April 07, 2011, 03:24:44 PM
Is Score Fake?
Fucking hell, no.

+1

gabeh1018 · April 08, 2011, 04:28:19 PM

Resounding no, not sure about James vocals, but there are guitar mistakes everywhere just like In LaB. Plus, if they were going to fix anything fix JR's piano mess up in the beginning of About to Crash when he lags w that one piano run.

Perpetual Change · April 08, 2011, 04:43:33 PM

Quote from: Adami on April 08, 2011, 09:24:32 AM
Perhaps you're not quite as good at discerning how much vibrato a singer is really using simply by looking at his throat.

Perhaps you're not quite as good at watching a video of someone playing guitar and being able to tell exactly how clean a few notes of a solo are actually played.

Perhaps you fail to realize that JR has two mod wheels, one of which doesn't bend pitch.

Perhaps you simply fail.

Sorry. Your post needed that.

Schleppy · April 08, 2011, 05:07:01 PM

To my knowledge, the only modifications were JP's guitar in UaGM and some very minor pitch correction on James thoughout.

ricky · April 08, 2011, 05:40:38 PM

Is this a serious thread?

if so, i just wasted five seconds of my life posting in it.

Aramatheis · April 08, 2011, 05:41:39 PM

That's ok, we all have

Loser1 · April 08, 2011, 06:04:38 PM

Quote from: Ninegauge on April 08, 2011, 07:55:35 AM
I have been noticing inconsistencies in the AV sync for the vocals on Score for a long time. The way I see it is the occasional line may have been sung 'badly', as would happen in any live performance. For a live DVD release, bum notes, etc. have to be eliminated, so the occasional line may have been re-recorded. If you watch the precious few amateur recordings made on the night, you can hear that the vocals are mostly identical to the vocals that made it on to the DVD, and they are amazing. There are a few things that have obviously been overdubbed, though. I think this was the video I noticed a very obvious one in (not sure if this is it, can't listen at the moment).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB6liz_TOAE

AHEM.... This crappy audience cam has horrible audio. Ridiculous to even compare. Like I said. I was there. There isn't a lot of vocal doctoring on the recording. Just accept it.

Wow I can't believe I'm even participating in this thread. Is this the average mental state of DT fans now? Back to lurking mode... Just... wow...

Ninegauge · April 09, 2011, 01:09:57 AM

I am usually a lurker too, but I felt it was neccessary at this point to step in to defend them, not bash them as you seem to think I am doing. They are by far my favourite band of all I time, they're all I listen to, just read my sig. But this is, after all a Dream Theater discussion board; this is nothing to do with our 'mental state', I think some people can't accept the fact that they are human, and make mistakes...

And it's obviously the pitch in that video (on the 'save him from himself' part, especially) I'm talking about, not the quality of the recording...

Sigz · April 09, 2011, 02:08:14 AM

Quote from: Loser1 on April 08, 2011, 06:04:38 PM
Wow I can't believe I'm even participating in this thread. Is this the average mental state of DT fans now? Back to lurking mode... Just... wow...

No, it's just the mental state of some guy on the internet.

njdtfan · April 09, 2011, 09:02:59 AM

Quote from: ricky on April 08, 2011, 05:40:38 PM
Is this a serious thread?

if so, i just wasted five seconds of my life posting in it.

My thoughts exactly. I actually feel sorry for myself after reading this thread.

Implode · April 09, 2011, 12:00:28 PM

Wow. I feel sorry for the OP. A newish guy posts an unfortunately uneducated question and gets encouraged by the first couple replies. After he posts a couple more times, EVERYONE ATTACKS HIM.

reneranucci · April 09, 2011, 01:12:23 PM

Quote from: Implode on April 09, 2011, 12:00:28 PM
Wow. I feel sorry for the OP. A newish guy posts an unfortunately uneducated question and gets encouraged by the first couple replies. After he posts a couple more times, EVERYONE ATTACKS HIM.

Nobody is attacking him. Just pointing out how far-fetched his theory is.

Adami · April 09, 2011, 02:18:31 PM

Quote from: Implode on April 09, 2011, 12:00:28 PM
Wow. I feel sorry for the OP. A newish guy posts an unfortunately uneducated question and gets encouraged by the first couple replies. After he posts a couple more times, EVERYONE ATTACKS HIM.

He made like 5 posts talking about things he thinks is wrong with Score, acting like he has the ability to notice subtle things that no one else can. No one attacked him, we just called him out on it.

Implode · April 09, 2011, 03:59:19 PM

You're right. I just found it funny how it suddenly switched from interest to calling him out so quickly and dramatically.

Nick · April 09, 2011, 04:42:13 PM

I agree, we should have been calling him out on the very first reply.

ricky · April 09, 2011, 05:21:53 PM

Quote from: Nick on April 09, 2011, 04:42:13 PM
I agree, we should have been calling him out on the very first reply.

+1

although i have to admit, i only read the title of the thread when i posted.

El Barto · April 09, 2011, 05:50:51 PM

Quote from: Ninegauge on April 09, 2011, 01:09:57 AM
And it's obviously the pitch in that video (on the 'save him from himself' part, especially) I'm talking about, not the quality of the recording...

Yeah, that actually is quite different than the one from the DVD. Not just pitch, either. I'm usually paying attention to Portnoy during that bit, so I probably wouldn't have noticed it live.

Now, having said that, as all of us that were there have said, JLB really whipped ass that night. It's now been demonstrated that at least one thing was redone in the studio, but that shouldn't take away from all of the stuff that he nailed in real life. His vocals during Glass Moon and Innocence Faded were absolutely spot on throughout, and to me that's much more important to me than just shouting the "save him from himself" part.

It brings up an interesting point, though. If I were JLB and somebody wanted to go in and retouch the vox on my best performance in 15 years, I'd be pretty pissed off about it. There's nothing to prove to me since I was there, but it kinda sucks that the people who weren't have doubts about what was real and what was canned.

JayOctavarium · April 09, 2011, 11:00:09 PM

I had some slight doubts when i first watched Score all the way through, But after reading one of these reoccurring threads, I have shed any doubt. So if in, say 10 years, JLB comes out and says it was tampered with more that just a few small minor insignificant things, i will be crushed.

mrjazzguitar · April 10, 2011, 11:28:29 AM

Quote from: andreas_adelek on April 07, 2011, 03:24:44 PM
There probably is a topic about this but I don't want to digg it up.
Well? I found alot of places where the music and video aren't in sync (JP playing something you cant see, JLB doing some vibratos that you cant hear and all of this more than once in the same song!)
I stopped watching it a couple of minutes ago and can't continue

Is it fake? no
It it mixed/mastered just as much as a studio recording? yes

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Is Score Fake?