Hiring a lyricist

[LKap13]

This is a purely hypothetical scenario where DT decides to hire a very talented writer who can write lyrics to accompany their music. Would you have a problem with that?  (Assuming they gave the appropriate credit, etc.)

[rumborak]

Would be fine with me. Many top acts have done so, and not to their detriment.

A friend of mine, a total Jazz aficionado, was commenting the other day on the fact that in pop/rock/metal music, people are expected to be these uber-talented multi-taskers. Excellent songwriter, performer, lyricist. But, how in Jazz, that is not the case, and you have the distinction between writers and performers. And I have to say he kinda had a point. I wonder how much better some music would be if there was a distinction between the tasks.

A case in point, I remember listening to the BCSL instrumental CD the first time, realizing how ridiculously strong the music was, and how many moments of the music were kinda dragged down once the vocals were added.

rumborak

[JPX]

This is a very valid question, and an interesting one.

Not everyone can be Maynard James Keenan.

[Perpetual Change]

Fine by me too. And not unprecedented. Remember, Peter Sinfield wrote a great deal of Emerson Lake & Palmer lyrics.

[Brand X]

Doesn't that detract from the band as such? I've always disliked that James isn't free to sing how he wants or write the lyrics he wants, he sounds so strong on his own stuff, but a parody of himself as MP seemed to drag him down and impose himself onto him.

An  external songwriter to me has always detracted from 'the band' as it is no longer a true reflection of where the band are at that point in time.......but that's just me...

[bodiesinflight]

I would.

Lyrics are part of a band's responsibility. If they can't do it then they should just not have them.

[rumborak]

An  external songwriter to me has always detracted from 'the band' as it is no longer a true reflection of where the band are at that point in time.......but that's just me...

It's all about expectation. If the "integrity" of the band is a major part of your expectation of what a band is about, then yes, an outsider lyricist would clearly take away from that. If that aspect is only secondary to you and in turn you get a better end product, then it's a plus.

I mean, DT has an issue with lyrics, there's no question about it. Just imagine some of the cringe-worthy lyrics replaced with awesome lyrics, and what it would do to the songs.

rumborak

[gborland]

There's an easy solution for anyone who is struggling with lyrics. Just read an old book (old enough to be out of copyright) and borrow the words. Rearrange them to rhyme as necessary.

Some of Maiden's best songs are based on exactly this approach. 

[ReaPsTA]

I wouldn't like it.  When I hear a band, I want to hear a product that they have a sense of ownership of.  If someone else writes the lyrics, then those lyrics aren't really the bands?

[skydivingninja]

I wouldn't like it.  When I hear a band, I want to hear a product that they have a sense of ownership of.  If someone else writes the lyrics, then those lyrics aren't really the bands?

This.  Its like the Pure Reason Revolution or Queensryche thing where they bring in somebody to write the music and slap lyrics over it, which is sort of the complete opposite of this hypothetical situation.  You feel like a big part of the band is missing, and some integrity has been lost.  If JP, JLB, or JM want some help and go to somebody else like Peart and Dubois did for "Tom Sawyer," I'd be okay with that, but don't completely outsource songwriting.

[bosk1]

No, beause (1) most of DT's lyrics are great, so there's no need, and (2) what Reap and SDN said.

[Cool Chris]

It wouldn't bother me, but it wouldn't be my initial preference. I admire it when a band takes full ownership of their product, even if they fall short of my expectations. But if they brought someone in just to write lyrics, I would just as soon they brought someone in from the start of the writing process, so they could more or less be a 'part' of the band, feel the vibe in the studio, ect..

That being said, I don't dislike their lyrics as much as other fans do.

[snowdog]

There's an easy solution for anyone who is struggling with lyrics. Just read an old book (old enough to be out of copyright) and borrow the words. Rearrange them to rhyme as necessary.

You mean essentially what Petrucci has been doing for a while now?  As if the fans haven't been riled up about that subject lately.

[JPX]

There's an easy solution for anyone who is struggling with lyrics. Just read an old book (old enough to be out of copyright) and borrow the words. Rearrange them to rhyme as necessary.

You mean essentially what Petrucci has been doing for a while now?  As if the fans haven't been riled up about that subject lately.

Care to back that claim up with examples?

[orcus116]

No, beause (1) most of DT's lyrics are great, so there's no need, and (2) what Reap and SDN said.

Does that most cover the two most recent albums? I can understand being apathetic towards them but great is not a word I would describe them at all.

[Chino]

Elton John is one of the best performers ever and he has a lyricist. I would have no problem if DT used one.

[j]

DT has definitely been struggling in the lyric department for quite some time now, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about this.  Interesting thought.

-J

[bosk1]

No, beause (1) most of DT's lyrics are great, so there's no need, and (2) what Reap and SDN said.

Does that most cover the two most recent albums?

Of course.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

They've done this once, and the result was You Not Me. So...yeah, let's not...

[The Degenerate]

most of DT's lyrics are great

I don't really care either way. I'm apathetic towards most of their lyrics (though they can write good lyrics, like Scarred and Learning To Live), but if they do hire a lyricist, his name should be John Myung.

[bosk1]

Oh, wow.  You responded to my post by linking to an image that doesn't display.  Good for you, Degenerate.  Good for you. 

[The Degenerate]

oh god im so ashamed

[LKap13]

Ideal situation: DT hires someone who has written lyrics for them in the past, and is also on the level of a professional lyricist...
Who am I referring to? Kevin Moore, of course. Haha, this would never ever happen, but it would certainly take care of the problem of bad lyrics and also the concern over a "foreign" voice taking over.

[ariich]

Can't say I'd be bothered either way, as long as they were happy with it.

[atmyne]

Oh, wow.  You responded to my post by linking to an image that doesn't display.  Good for you, Degenerate.  Good for you. 

unnecessarily hostile...

I wouldn't like it.  When I hear a band, I want to hear a product that they have a sense of ownership of.  If someone else writes the lyrics, then those lyrics aren't really the bands?

This.  Its like the Pure Reason Revolution or Queensryche thing where they bring in somebody to write the music and slap lyrics over it, which is sort of the complete opposite of this hypothetical situation.  You feel like a big part of the band is missing, and some integrity has been lost.  If JP, JLB, or JM want some help and go to somebody else like Peart and Dubois did for "Tom Sawyer," I'd be okay with that, but don't completely outsource songwriting.

^pretty much summed up how i feel about it. I mean, I would still listen to the music, but it would be a little underwhelming knowing that I am not listening to something that was solely a product of the band.

[orcus116]

I know I can't speak for everyone but I'm all for this just for the fact that as of late the lyrics are seriously hindering enjoyment of even the music. I burst out laughing at several passages in Black Clouds to the point where I lost my concentration. Since lyrics aren't really the band's bread and butter I don't see a problem in bringing in someone to help with phrasing and whatnot.

[ZBomber]

I know I can't speak for everyone but I'm all for this just for the fact that as of late the lyrics are seriously hindering enjoyment of even the music. I burst out laughing at several passages in Black Clouds to the point where I lost my concentration. Since lyrics aren't really the band's bread and butter I don't see a problem in bringing in someone to help with phrasing and whatnot.

More or less this. Usually lyrics don't detract from a song for me that much if the music is strong enough, but good god I had a hard time dealing with the lyrics on Black Clouds.

[rumborak]

I remember hearing "Thank you for ....... my LIFE!!!" the first time, staring in disbelief. At leat TCOT was intentionally tongue-in-cheek, so I have no issues with it so much.

rumborak

[Zook]

Desmond Child anyone? I heard he's great. The guy has written for Bon Jovi. BON JOVI!

[JPX]

I don't really care either way. I'm apathetic towards most of their lyrics (though they can write good lyrics, like Scarred and Learning To Live), but if they do hire a lyricist, his name should be John Myung.

LSoaD is at best an example of high school Creative Writing 101...I have never understood the Myung love when it comes to his lyrical contributions.

[orcus116]

Because he's the only one who attempts to put an inkling of real poetry into his lyrics? The blatantness of everyone else's lyrics as of late is almost downright insulting to the listener.

[j]

I know I can't speak for everyone but I'm all for this just for the fact that as of late the lyrics are seriously hindering enjoyment of even the music. I burst out laughing at several passages in Black Clouds to the point where I lost my concentration. Since lyrics aren't really the band's bread and butter I don't see a problem in bringing in someone to help with phrasing and whatnot.

This is a good point.  They don't necessarily have to *write* the lyrics, the DT guys can still do that.  But they can help with actually conveying and phrasing the ideas.

-J

[bosk1]

Orcus, I honestly just cannot understand where you are coming from at all on this issue.

[JPX]

Because he's the only one who attempts to put an inkling of real poetry into his lyrics? The blatantness of everyone else's lyrics as of late is almost downright insulting to the listener.

Corny metaphore doesn't equate to poetry.

[orcus116]

Orcus, I honestly just cannot understand where you are coming from at all on this issue.

Considering you said you think some of the lyrics on the newer albums are good I wouldn't expect you to. I personally see them as signs of guys who write lyrics just because they have to. Outside of "The Best Of Times" there was no real meaning or purpose behind any of the words aside from giving LaBrie something to do. The phrasing and diction were so flat and boring that a little outside help could do wonders for making dull subject matter a smidge interesting.