Dream Theater New Album 2011 Speculations (merged)

[JPX]

The chromatic connection in Octavarium is more of a gimmick than a concept. Nothing else ties the songs on the album together other than that.

Just because 'concept' albums generally have a narrative, doesn't make that the only characteristic of them.
By it's very definition it means that the music is conceptually linked which Octavarium is.

[Kosmo]

Yeah, Scenes is the only true concept record. None of the other records have anything thematically strong enough going for them to consider them concept records. 

Wrong

How so?

[JPX]

Yeah, Scenes is the only true concept record. None of the other records have anything thematically strong enough going for them to consider them concept records. 

Wrong

How so?

See above.

[dongringo]

I really hope they stay away from theories like evolution, reincarnation, etc. It's just a big turn off, to me anyway.

 

I'm sure you weren't really rotfl. You were just upset that someone has a different view than you. So I don't like the concept of SFAM. So what?  

No, I just found it hilarious that you would include evolution and reincarnation in the same sentence, as if they were in any way equivalent sorts of "theories".

Oh, I see what you're saying. When thinking of the concept of SFAM I was thinking at the same time of other theories (or what ever you want to call them) that I wouldn't want to hear about in another concept album. Not that they are equivalent or anything. For what it's worth, I consider much of the lyrical content on SC theory as well, just my definition. I'd rather them write about real life accounts like on BC&SL. Nothing too deep. I'm one of those that loves TCOT not only because it's musically brilliant, but because of the lyrics. But I digress. It's their album and they will write what they want.

[ZirconBlue]

I really hope they stay away from theories like evolution, reincarnation, etc. It's just a big turn off, to me anyway.

 

I'm sure you weren't really rotfl. You were just upset that someone has a different view than you. So I don't like the concept of SFAM. So what?  

No, I just found it hilarious that you would include evolution and reincarnation in the same sentence, as if they were in any way equivalent sorts of "theories".

Oh, I see what you're saying. When thinking of the concept of SFAM I was thinking at the same time of other theories (or what ever you want to call them) that I wouldn't want to hear about in another concept album. Not that they are equivalent or anything. For what it's worth, I consider much of the lyrical content on SC theory as well, just my definition. I'd rather them write about real life accounts like on BC&SL. Nothing too deep. I'm one of those that loves TCOT not only because it's musically brilliant, but because of the lyrics. But I digress. It's their album and they will write what they want.

Ah, I see.  Yeah, SC did have a lot of Fantasy-type lyrics, too.

[orcus116]

The chromatic connection in Octavarium is more of a gimmick than a concept. Nothing else ties the songs on the album together other than that.

Just because 'concept' albums generally have a narrative, doesn't make that the only characteristic of them.
By it's very definition it means that the music is conceptually linked which Octavarium is.

Aside from one reprise in the very first song no it isn't.

[JPX]

The chromatic connection in Octavarium is more of a gimmick than a concept. Nothing else ties the songs on the album together other than that.

Just because 'concept' albums generally have a narrative, doesn't make that the only characteristic of them.
By it's very definition it means that the music is conceptually linked which Octavarium is.

Aside from one reprise in the very first song no it isn't.

Ummm...sure...ok...

[Adami]

The chromatic connection in Octavarium is more of a gimmick than a concept. Nothing else ties the songs on the album together other than that.

Just because 'concept' albums generally have a narrative, doesn't make that the only characteristic of them.
By it's very definition it means that the music is conceptually linked which Octavarium is.

Aside from one reprise in the very first song no it isn't.

Ummm...sure...ok...

Orcus is right. Awake is more of a concept album than 8vm is.

[JPX]

The chromatic connection in Octavarium is more of a gimmick than a concept. Nothing else ties the songs on the album together other than that.

Just because 'concept' albums generally have a narrative, doesn't make that the only characteristic of them.
By it's very definition it means that the music is conceptually linked which Octavarium is.

Aside from one reprise in the very first song no it isn't.

Ummm...sure...ok...

Orcus is right. Awake is more of a concept album than 8vm is.

No, you're both wrong and you haven't presented anything to indicate otherwise.

Assuming you know the background of 8V then the below is 100% conceptual and serves you with a fail. I'll paraphrase from Wikipedia.

"It would be their eighth studio album. This sequence mirrored the octave on a musical keyboard: each octave contains eight naturals and five accidentals. Portnoy suggested that they write the entire album based around the concept. When writing, the band delegated each song a different key. Sound effects were placed between songs to connect them: for example, "The Root of All Evil", written in F, and the following track, "The Answer Lies Within", written in G, were connected by a sound effect in the key of F#. The album's lyrics and song titles featured references to this concept. Portnoy cited the titles "The Root of all Evil" (referring to the musical term "root") and "Octavarium" ("the octave of the octave") as two examples of this.

Octavarium begins "The Root of All Evil" with the final note of the band's previous album, Train of Thought with "In the Name of God". Train of Thought started "As I Am" with the last note from Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence with the title track, which in turn started with the noise that ended Scenes from a Memory at the end of "Finally Free". The final track ends with the beginning of the first one. This made the album a cycle in itself."

[Metropolis Pt. II]

The most important aspect of the new album will be:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1995176602829&set=o.7677942180&type=1&theater

[Adami]

The keys of the songs don't make it a concept album.


Just say the song 8vm didn't sum up the album, would it still be a concept album? Because aside from that 1 song, none of the songs have anything to do with each other on any possible level. That alone disqualifies it.

[hefdaddy42]

Oh hell no, not another debate on what is and what isn't a concept album.  Nope, forget it.

[bosk1]

Oh hell no, not another debate on what is and what isn't a concept album.  Nope, forget it.

This.  JPX, you are also being far too belligerent in your tone.  For the record, Octavarium is NOT a "concept album."  It is, however, for the reasons you mentioned, heavily conceptual and is considered a "theme album" or "conceptual album."  But we don't need to debate that, especially in a thread that has nothing whatsoever to do with that issue.  Please stay on topic.

[JPX]

Hey, I didn't start it.

And I'm not sure how something can be considered conceptual but not a concept.

Whatever.

[Adami]

Considering that the writing was done without a drummer this time around, I'd like to think that the "jam" aspect of songs that can often result in very long solo trade offs and 12 minute songs might be gone this time around. I'd be fine with that.

[bosk1]

Hey, I didn't start it.

And I'm not sure how something can be considered conceptual but not a concept.

Whatever.

I don't care who started it; I'm telling you to stop it, and that includes keeping the thread on topic. 

But to briefly answer your question about why something with a concept isn't necessarily a concept album, the reasoning is the same as why a fire truck doesn't contain any fires.  The term "fire truck" has a specific, specialized meaning apart from the two words that comprise it, just as the term "concept album" does.

[orcus116]

Fire engines are fair game though, right?

[Adami]

Fire engines are fair game though, right?

I believe the new term for them is Trump Trucks.

[orcus116]

 

Considering that the writing was done without a drummer this time around, I'd like to think that the "jam" aspect of songs that can often result in very long solo trade offs and 12 minute songs might be gone this time around. I'd be fine with that.

Maybe an Hourglass type song with some bass?

[JPX]

Hey, I didn't start it.

And I'm not sure how something can be considered conceptual but not a concept.

Whatever.

I don't care who started it; I'm telling you to stop it, and that includes keeping the thread on topic. 

But to briefly answer your question about why something with a concept isn't necessarily a concept album, the reasoning is the same as why a fire truck doesn't contain any fires.  The term "fire truck" has a specific, specialized meaning apart from the two words that comprise it, just as the term "concept album" does.

I'm sorry, but that's a really awful analogy. And for the record I still think you're wrong.
I'll guess at this point, we'll agree to disagree and move on.

[SystematicThought]

I used to be like that too JPX. It is a useless argument. Yes, Octavarium has a concept of the octave, but it just isn't a concept album which usually tells a story.

SDOIT has one song following a concept, it isn't a full blown concept album. (Although a part of me considers it one because the 1st disc has 5 songs that deal with some turbulent idea in life, such as loss of faith, alcoholism, stem cell research, isolation, and death, all issues that can cause some internal struggle. Than you have the next disc which has 1 song dealing with internal struggles as well such as bipolar disorder, post-war stress, etc. That's how I view that album. Please, people, don't jump all over me and call me stupid for viewing that album like that. But than again, you can't consider it one, since they wrote the song SDOIT after all the other ones had been done, so it was a coincidence that all songs dealt with an internal struggle 

[Knguro]

i dont know if someone has said this before but, i would like to hear the ending of TCOT at the begining of the first song of DT11! someone with me?

[fadetoblackdude7]

i dont know if someone has said this before but, i would like to hear the ending of TCOT at the begining of the first song of DT11! someone with me?

Meh......they finished that stint. No more.

[Knguro]

i dont know if someone has said this before but, i would like to hear the ending of TCOT at the begining of the first song of DT11! someone with me?

Meh......they finished that stint. No more.

haha i guess you dont like the idea haha

[fadetoblackdude7]

i dont know if someone has said this before but, i would like to hear the ending of TCOT at the begining of the first song of DT11! someone with me?

Meh......they finished that stint. No more.

haha i guess you dont like the idea haha

Oh I liked it, I thought it was a very interesting idea. I just don't think they should start it again lol

[Knguro]

i dont know if someone has said this before but, i would like to hear the ending of TCOT at the begining of the first song of DT11! someone with me?

Meh......they finished that stint. No more.

haha i guess you dont like the idea haha

Oh I liked it, I thought it was a very interesting idea. I just don't think they should start it again lol

then im out of ideas hahahah

[reneranucci]

Considering that the writing was done without a drummer this time around, I'd like to think that the "jam" aspect of songs that can often result in very long solo trade offs and 12 minute songs might be gone this time around. I'd be fine with that.

I think that's just part of their style, they consciously struggle NOT to do it (e.g. Octavarium). I think we'll still see it on the new album.

[Ben_Jamin]

I still find it funny that people don't know the difference between Concept and Rock Opera.

[PS Head]

I personally dont care weather its a concept,theme or rock opera album....as long as the songs are well written(which ive no doubt they will be).Music is very personal,and touches people on different levels and in different ways.For me,DT's lyrics are not as important as the music,which im sure some of you will find strange.I love their prog rock epics with all the time/key changes and different moods along with all the solo's.
To get this back on thread,i do hope the next album contains more than just the guys shreadin' away at 100mph.As good as they are doin' that stuff,its the proggier material for me that shows far more of this bands talents.8vm..6DoIT.. SFaM..and I&W's prove this beyond doubt...and fingers crossed,DT 11 will follow the same vein.

[Perpetual Change]

Concept records don't need stories. I reject that notion, and for good reason. Think of dredg's el cielo. There is no overarching story. Instead several stories make up the album's basis. That's just one of many. Prog bands push the boundaries of concept records. That's why they're called "progressive".

That said, Octavarium just isn't a concept record. Why do I say this? Because the thematic elements are really too weak. Concept records don't need stories. They just need strong and pervasive thematic elements.

I understand the confusion, though. The opposition arguments have, not been that great. I'm not singling anyone out. But concept records are different than rock operas. The reverse is also true. People confuse terminology, but it's plain to see: Concept records don't need stories.

[dongringo]

Concept records don't need stories. I reject that notion, and for good reason. Think of dredg's el cielo. There is no overarching story. Instead several stories make up the album's basis. That's just one of many. Prog bands push the boundaries of concept records. That's why they're called "progressive".

That said, Octavarium just isn't a concept record. Why do I say this? Because the thematic elements are really too weak. Concept records don't need stories. They just need strong and pervasive thematic elements.

I understand the confusion, though. The opposition arguments have, not been that great. I'm not singling anyone out. But concept records are different than rock operas. The reverse is also true. People confuse terminology, but it's plain to see: Concept records don't need stories.

I tend to agree. In your opinion, is PT's The Incident a concept record? Curious.

[Perpetual Change]

I tend to agree. In your opinion, is PT's The Incident a concept record? Curious.

I'm not sure. While I've listened to it plenty of times, I've never really noticed many thematic elements which were that strong. So I'm inclined to trust SW's "song cycle" description." I personally wouldn't call it a concept record because I'd have no idea where to begin describing what the concept is.

[orcus116]

From what I understand the album covers several big news stories from a variety of angles. He explained how an outsider is usually so detached from these incidents personally so most interest is morbid curiousity. The angles covered in the songs are from the people directly involved.

[reneranucci]

For the record, Octavarium is NOT a "concept album."  It is, however, for the reasons you mentioned, heavily conceptual and is considered a "theme album" or "conceptual album."  But we don't need to debate that, especially in a thread that has nothing whatsoever to do with that issue.  Please stay on topic.

[JediKnight1969]

For the record, Octavarium is NOT a "concept album."  It is, however, for the reasons you mentioned, heavily conceptual and is considered a "theme album" or "conceptual album."  But we don't need to debate that, especially in a thread that has nothing whatsoever to do with that issue.  Please stay on topic.

Rena Petrucci is right!

Stay on topic!

Uh... Anyone remember it?