Mike Portnoy on wanting to rejoin Dream Theater

[lordxizor]

I could see that as well.

[stryker]

Depends on how you look at it. I do feel bad for Portnoy the person but as a musician and a leader his priorities seemed to stale as a member of Dream Theater.

This

[MetropolisxPt1]

Re: Derek Sherinian - He was fired for a very specific reason - DT wanted Rudess all along.  In this case, it seems they got the guy they wanted from the get go.

is there a poll where dt forum members will vote if they think mp will rejoin..let's see if how many has still faith in MP or has moved to MM era..

You're confusing two different things.  What you think of MP vs. MM as a drummer has nothing to do with whether you believe based on the facts of the situation DT will switch back.  At least not logically.

Metropolis - I guess what I don't understand is why you think DT isn't fully committed to MM as a band member.  They wrote one album without him because they wanted to rediscover the core writing chemistry.  Even if they keep using this writing method (which I certainly hope they don't), there's still every reason to believe they want MM for how he performs the drum parts and as someone to ride in a tour bus with.  Even if he ends up being more or less a session musician in DT, then they want him for that role.

If you dont write the music its not your music he is just the guy playing w/e jp programmed on his drum machine. Interviews of JP, JR and MP for BC&SL say differently if they hadn't had wanted to go more metal they wouldn't have signed with Roadrunner it is easier to attract new fans to the metal aspect of the band and i expect this continue but in a less dark mood.

The point is if they say he is a full member treat him as one don't tell him what to play and how to play it. you cannot deny the fact that DT wouldn't let him contribute and until he does he is just a sit-in.

[WildeSilas]

I'm not sure what signing with Roadrunner has to do with being "more metal" since that label also carries Kenny Wayne Shepherd, Lenny Kravitz, Meatloaf, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Steve Miller Band, & The Dresden Dolls.\


Also: Your argument is based on a breath-taking lack of understanding concerning the process of collective songwriting.

[slycordinator]

Maybe I missed some announcement about this but this is the first I've heard it suggested that Mangini used drum machine parts programmed by Petrucci.

[MetropolisxPt1]

Maybe I missed some announcement about this but this is the first I've heard it suggested that Mangini used drum machine parts programmed by Petrucci.

They wrote witha drum machine JP has said this in interviews.

I'm not sure what signing with Roadrunner has to do with being "more metal" since that label also carries Kenny Wayne Shepherd, Lenny Kravitz, Meatloaf, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Steve Miller Band, & The Dresden Dolls.\


Also: Your argument is based on a breath-taking lack of understanding concerning the process of collective songwriting.

Taken from their site Roadrunner Records is the premier music label for Heavy Metal & Rock bands and considering that 90% they have signed are metal....


Apparently collective songwriting excludes a full member who knows as much or more about the songwriting process including music theory and composition if i have the lack of understanding for songwriting i guess MM does too.

[Metabog]

Re: Derek Sherinian - He was fired for a very specific reason - DT wanted Rudess all along.  In this case, it seems they got the guy they wanted from the get go.

is there a poll where dt forum members will vote if they think mp will rejoin..let's see if how many has still faith in MP or has moved to MM era..

You're confusing two different things.  What you think of MP vs. MM as a drummer has nothing to do with whether you believe based on the facts of the situation DT will switch back.  At least not logically.

Metropolis - I guess what I don't understand is why you think DT isn't fully committed to MM as a band member.  They wrote one album without him because they wanted to rediscover the core writing chemistry.  Even if they keep using this writing method (which I certainly hope they don't), there's still every reason to believe they want MM for how he performs the drum parts and as someone to ride in a tour bus with.  Even if he ends up being more or less a session musician in DT, then they want him for that role.

If you dont write the music its not your music he is just the guy playing w/e jp programmed on his drum machine. Interviews of JP, JR and MP for BC&SL say differently if they hadn't had wanted to go more metal they wouldn't have signed with Roadrunner it is easier to attract new fans to the metal aspect of the band and i expect this continue but in a less dark mood.

The point is if they say he is a full member treat him as one don't tell him what to play and how to play it. you cannot deny the fact that DT wouldn't let him contribute and until he does he is just a sit-in.

I disagree with you. I honestly doubt MM stuck to the exact programmed drums, and even if he did, a lot of bands do this. Take Ayreon for example, the drums are always pre-programmed by Arjen Lucassen, yet Ed Warby the drummer is a permanent band member. There's nothing wrong with doing that.

[KevShmev]

DT hasn't been more metal since signing with Roadrunner.  Metal has always been a big part of their musical appetite.  Heck, their two most metal albums were prior to signing with RR.

Also,

If you dont write the music its not your music

I guess it isn't JLB's music either, since he is almost never a part of the writing process, so I guess by MetropolisxPt1's definition, that makes him just a session singer.

[jcmoorehead]

They wrote witha drum machine JP has said this in interviews.

Yeah and MM said that JP would send him the parts, and he'd add his own touches and not hold back with them so it's not like he is sticking to what JP has wrote on the drum machines.

Also as far as DT being metal/signed to RoadRunner. I've rather them be seen as 'metal' and signed to a label that actually gives a damn about them then the one they were on before who either tried to turn them into something they're not or from Scenes onwards didn't really care about them being there.

[MetropolisxPt1]

DT hasn't been more metal since signing with Roadrunner.  Metal has always been a big part of their musical appetite.  Heck, their two most metal albums were prior to signing with RR.

Also,

If you dont write the music its not your music

I guess it isn't JLB's music either, since he is almost never a part of the writing process, so I guess by MetropolisxPt1's definition, that makes him just a session singer.

they also threatened to kick him out for not being as involved in the writing process if im not mistaken.

If DT werent more metal on SC and BC&SL then idk what they were. ToT, SC and BC&SL are the most metal albums they have wrote.

[slycordinator]

Maybe I missed some announcement about this but this is the first I've heard it suggested that Mangini used drum machine parts programmed by Petrucci.

They wrote witha drum machine JP has said this in interviews.

That doesn't mean that Mangini played the same parts as were used with the drum machine. Lots of musicians write with a drum machine then send the music they laid down to a drummer who then records an original part for it.

But apparently Mangini did use the programmed parts ... and then added his own parts to it. Not exactly the same as just playing someone else's stuff. Come to think of it, I do remember that he'd done it this way. But I sure never heard them say "Mike played exactly what JP programmed" or him alluding to it.

[KevShmev]

DT hasn't been more metal since signing with Roadrunner.  Metal has always been a big part of their musical appetite.  Heck, their two most metal albums were prior to signing with RR.

Also,

If you dont write the music its not your music

I guess it isn't JLB's music either, since he is almost never a part of the writing process, so I guess by MetropolisxPt1's definition, that makes him just a session singer.

they also threatened to kick him out for not being as involved in the writing process if im not mistaken.

If DT werent more metal on SC and BC&SL then idk what they were. ToT, SC and BC&SL are the most metal albums they have wrote.

You are mistaken.  He was almost kicked out because live performances were suffering.  It is true that they wanted him in the studio more with him, but that was more so they could have more of a cohesive band feel when writing and recording, but he still has had very little to do with the creative process, outside of the few lyrics he has written. 

I'll say it again: metal has always been a big part of the band's musical appetite.  If you think they signed with RR so they could be more metal, then you really know very little about the band.

[MetropolisxPt1]

DT hasn't been more metal since signing with Roadrunner.  Metal has always been a big part of their musical appetite.  Heck, their two most metal albums were prior to signing with RR.

Also,

If you dont write the music its not your music

I guess it isn't JLB's music either, since he is almost never a part of the writing process, so I guess by MetropolisxPt1's definition, that makes him just a session singer.

they also threatened to kick him out for not being as involved in the writing process if im not mistaken.

If DT werent more metal on SC and BC&SL then idk what they were. ToT, SC and BC&SL are the most metal albums they have wrote.

You are mistaken.  He was almost kicked out because live performances were suffering.  It is true that they wanted him in the studio more with him, but that was more so they could have more of a cohesive band feel when writing and recording, but he still has had very little to do with the creative process, outside of the few lyrics he has written.  

I'll say it again: metal has always been a big part of the band's musical appetite.  If you think they signed with RR so they could be more metal, then you really know very little about the band.

take a step back and go read what i posted, i said if they didnt want to be metal they wouldn't have signed with RR the argument was that MP was pushing them to be more metal apparently idk much about the band because now SC and BC arent that metal but yet people are complaining they are going too metal.

up until ToT the argument could have been made that DT weren't a metal band at all to the vast majority of metal fans.

DT has always used a group writing process excluding full members is not conducive to starting anew.

[abydos]

Actually the main writers for the last 10 years have been JP and MP with some help from JR and that's it. So now we have 2 session members in the faces of JLB and JM

[MetropolisxPt1]

Maybe I missed some announcement about this but this is the first I've heard it suggested that Mangini used drum machine parts programmed by Petrucci.

They wrote witha drum machine JP has said this in interviews.

That doesn't mean that Mangini played the same parts as were used with the drum machine. Lots of musicians write with a drum machine then send the music they laid down to a drummer who then records an original part for it.

But apparently Mangini did use the programmed parts ... and then added his own parts to it. Not exactly the same as just playing someone else's stuff. Come to think of it, I do remember that he'd done it this way. But I sure never heard them say "Mike played exactly what JP programmed" or him alluding to it.

He didnt add his own stuff he added his style. JP has said you will not hear his influence on the next album.
all famous drummers have a recognizable personality in their playing and how they interpret parts if he didnt write the parts his personality and creativity in his playing will be diminished.

Actually the main writers for the last 10 years have been JP and MP with some help from JR and that's it. So now we have 2 session members in the faces of JLB and JM

its hard to be a session musician if you dont play an instrument and JM removed himself from the writing process

[robwebster]

Actually the main writers for the last 10 years have been JP and MP with some help from JR and that's it. So now we have 2 session members in the faces of JLB and JM

its hard to be a session musician if you dont play an instrument and JM removed himself from the writing process

I'm sure that if you twist it enough and issue enough provisos you probably can get your argument to hold some water, yes.

Genuinely, though - Mangini is point blank not a session member. His role on this album was no more involved than that of a session musician, but that's because they've just lost someone they've spent quarter of a century collaborating with. Taking it slowly isn't the same thing as forsaking a member. Mangini's in it for the long haul. I'm sorry if you don't like that, and you don't have to for even a second, but clutching at straws to try and make reality fit the contours of your philosophy simply isn't going to work.

[hefdaddy42]

This is really just laughable.  We have the recorded words of everyone actually involved that MM is a full-member, against the ramblings of MetropolisxPt1.

[MetropolisxPt1]

Actually the main writers for the last 10 years have been JP and MP with some help from JR and that's it. So now we have 2 session members in the faces of JLB and JM

its hard to be a session musician if you dont play an instrument and JM removed himself from the writing process

I'm sure that if you twist it enough and issue enough provisos you probably can get your argument to hold some water, yes.

Genuinely, though - Mangini is point blank not a session member. His role on this album was no more involved than that of a session musician, but that's because they've just lost someone they've spent quarter of a century collaborating with. Taking it slowly isn't the same thing as forsaking a member. Mangini's in it for the long haul. I'm sorry if you don't like that, and you don't have to for even a second, but clutching at straws to try and make reality fit the contours of your philosophy simply isn't going to work.

Time will tell but history has shown my argument has held true, the reality is he joined DT and had the role of a session musician this leads to the next point if the only album he has played on had the role of a session musician and the next is the same then what is he?

If he is a full member they should have let him participate in the creation and writing of the album just as every other new member has been why is it different now?

their actions have spoken louder then their words.

[orcus116]

Like someone had brought up before, what about LaBrie? He was in Canada the whole time. Him getting vocal melody ideas is no different from Mangini getting basic programmed drum tracks and told to go nuts on them.

Also you gotta think, Mangini is a professor at Berklee. He had to quit his job in order to join the band but probably, out of obligation, had to finish the last semester of teaching which was from January to about May/June. He probably couldn't physically be in New York to help write the material.

[MetropolisxPt1]

Like someone had brought up before, what about LaBrie? He was in Canada the whole time. Him getting vocal melody ideas is no different from Mangini getting basic programmed drum tracks and told to go nuts on them.

no he wasn't he recorded his vocals in Canada their are pictures of him in the studio at cove city
if JP has said you wont hear MM influence on the album aside from just being a different player then MP their is much difference in someone who doesnt understand composition and structure to be told what to sing then a drummer coming in and recording JP's drums.


also MM was quitting berklee regardless of the DT gig

[ZirconBlue]

I hope this thread is being archived for "Eat My Words Day - 2015".

[robwebster]

Actually the main writers for the last 10 years have been JP and MP with some help from JR and that's it. So now we have 2 session members in the faces of JLB and JM

its hard to be a session musician if you dont play an instrument and JM removed himself from the writing process

I'm sure that if you twist it enough and issue enough provisos you probably can get your argument to hold some water, yes.

Genuinely, though - Mangini is point blank not a session member. His role on this album was no more involved than that of a session musician, but that's because they've just lost someone they've spent quarter of a century collaborating with. Taking it slowly isn't the same thing as forsaking a member. Mangini's in it for the long haul. I'm sorry if you don't like that, and you don't have to for even a second, but clutching at straws to try and make reality fit the contours of your philosophy simply isn't going to work.

Time will tell but history has shown my argument has held true, the reality is he joined DT and had the role of a session musician this leads to the next point if the only album he has played on had the role of a session musician and the next is the same then what is he?

If he is a full member they should have let him participate in the creation and writing of the album just as every other new member has been why is it different now?

their actions have spoken louder then their words.

What, like how Jordan Rudess was fired after he didn't contribute much to Metropolis Pt. 2?

No new member's significantly participated in the creation and writing of the following album - James supplied nothing to Images, Derek supplied nothing to Change of Seasons, and Jordan Rudess had very little participation in the Met pt. 2 writing sessions.

Their actions have spoken louder than their words. They've said... "Business as usual, then, lads?"

I hope this thread is being archived for "Eat My Words Day - 2015".

I'd think Eat My Words Day would surely be January 1st 2013?

[TheMadgician]

Actually the main writers for the last 10 years have been JP and MP with some help from JR and that's it. So now we have 2 session members in the faces of JLB and JM

its hard to be a session musician if you dont play an instrument and JM removed himself from the writing process

I'm sure that if you twist it enough and issue enough provisos you probably can get your argument to hold some water, yes.

Genuinely, though - Mangini is point blank not a session member. His role on this album was no more involved than that of a session musician, but that's because they've just lost someone they've spent quarter of a century collaborating with. Taking it slowly isn't the same thing as forsaking a member. Mangini's in it for the long haul. I'm sorry if you don't like that, and you don't have to for even a second, but clutching at straws to try and make reality fit the contours of your philosophy simply isn't going to work.

Time will tell but history has shown my argument has held true, the reality is he joined DT and had the role of a session musician this leads to the next point if the only album he has played on had the role of a session musician and the next is the same then what is he?

If he is a full member they should have let him participate in the creation and writing of the album just as every other new member has been why is it different now.

their actions have spoken louder then their words.

JLB is a permanent member. His first album (unless I'm mistaken) he didn't do anything other than come in and sing what he was told to sing, how he was told to sing it.

If you read Manginis interviews, he's pretty much said he did plenty of interpretation of the drum parts. The interviews actually point to something more along the lines of giving MM a kind of bare bones drum part and told to just do his own thing.

You're also implying they went to RR for the sole purpose of being super extra metal. Don't you think it's possible they just wanted a good record label?

[Bertielee]

Like someone had brought up before, what about LaBrie? He was in Canada the whole time. Him getting vocal melody ideas is no different from Mangini getting basic programmed drum tracks and told to go nuts on them.

Also you gotta think, Mangini is a professor at Berklee. He had to quit his job in order to join the band but probably, out of obligation, had to finish the last semester of teaching which was from January to about May/June. He probably couldn't physically be in New York to help write the material.

You know what?. Bring as many arguments you want, Met will prove you the contrary. Don't waste your time, it will die down on its own.

B.Lee

[ZirconBlue]

I'd think Eat My Words Day would surely be January 1st 2013?

It's an annual event. 

[hefdaddy42]

Besides, the fact that he didn't help compose any of the music doesn't mean anything anyway.  I don't think he ever helped to compose any of the other stuff he has played on, either.  Not to mention that plenty of bands exist who don't utilize all of the members to compose their music.  Most bands aren't really collaborative like DT has been.  MP was a part of the composition team when he was in DT, but thus far in the post-MP era, the remaining four have written on their own, with no compositional input from MM.  No big deal.  Who cares?

Also, I would like to correct Rob a little: Derek did contribute on the changes made to ACOS.

[TheMadgician]

Like someone had brought up before, what about LaBrie? He was in Canada the whole time. Him getting vocal melody ideas is no different from Mangini getting basic programmed drum tracks and told to go nuts on them.

Also you gotta think, Mangini is a professor at Berklee. He had to quit his job in order to join the band but probably, out of obligation, had to finish the last semester of teaching which was from January to about May/June. He probably couldn't physically be in New York to help write the material.

You know what?. Bring as many arguments you want, Met will prove you the contrary. Don't waste your time, it will die down on its own.

B.Lee

It's less that he'll prove to the contrary and more that he'll ignore logic and reason and believe only what he wants to.

It's a bit like a religious debate gone bad. I guess you could call MP a christ figure. He died removed himself from the band for our sins to make the band better.

[MetropolisxPt1]

 ^^^ My reason and logic must have ignored the part where MM didnt write with the band.
   you must have missed that since that is currently the only action the band have taken                   

Actually the main writers for the last 10 years have been JP and MP with some help from JR and that's it. So now we have 2 session members in the faces of JLB and JM

its hard to be a session musician if you dont play an instrument and JM removed himself from the writing process

I'm sure that if you twist it enough and issue enough provisos you probably can get your argument to hold some water, yes.

Genuinely, though - Mangini is point blank not a session member. His role on this album was no more involved than that of a session musician, but that's because they've just lost someone they've spent quarter of a century collaborating with. Taking it slowly isn't the same thing as forsaking a member. Mangini's in it for the long haul. I'm sorry if you don't like that, and you don't have to for even a second, but clutching at straws to try and make reality fit the contours of your philosophy simply isn't going to work.

Time will tell but history has shown my argument has held true, the reality is he joined DT and had the role of a session musician this leads to the next point if the only album he has played on had the role of a session musician and the next is the same then what is he?

If he is a full member they should have let him participate in the creation and writing of the album just as every other new member has been why is it different now?

their actions have spoken louder then their words.

What, like how Jordan Rudess was fired after he didn't contribute much to Metropolis Pt. 2?

No new member's significantly participated in the creation and writing of the following album - James supplied nothing to Images, Derek supplied nothing to Change of Seasons, and Jordan Rudess had very little participation in the Met pt. 2 writing sessions.

Their actions have spoken louder than their words. They've said... "Business as usual, then, lads?"

I hope this thread is being archived for "Eat My Words Day - 2015".

I'd think Eat My Words Day would surely be January 1st 2013?

I&W was writtien long before labrie came along.  i dont recall jp writing the piano parts for Metrop 2 or DS not having any participation on FII

i never implied they went to rr to be more metal im  implying if they didn't want to be metal they wouldn't have gone to a metal label. After 8vm they could have signed with virtually any label and decided to sign with RR knowing that they can distribute their music among their metal and hardrock fanbases to appease this following they put songs out such as AROP, CM, TDEN and Forsaken.

[SystematicThought]

I don't think those songs were meant to appease anyone, it was just the songs they wanted to write, especially because TDEN, CM, and Forsaken were written long before RR came into the picture

[Arch Benemy]

This is pretty funny. Now this discussion has turned from arguing that MP will be back in the band in a few years time to arguing whether Mangini is a permanent member or not. The two things are not related. Even if, even if Mangini was just a session drummer (he isn't) and the other members were viewing him as such (they aren't,) and were he to leave after the next record (he won't) then that still is no guarantee that MP would be invited back into the band. The guys in DT didn't want him back before, and although MP did ask to be allowed back 6 weeks after leaving it's entirely possible that in 5 years he will be doing his own thing and will have completely moved on from DT, exactly as he is doing now. From the tone of some of MP's forum and Facebook posts it seems that he wants to just forget the whole thing and move on.

[MetropolisxPt1]

Besides, the fact that he didn't help compose any of the music doesn't mean anything anyway.  I don't think he ever helped to compose any of the other stuff he has played on, either.  Not to mention that plenty of bands exist who don't utilize all of the members to compose their music.  Most bands aren't really collaborative like DT has been.  MP was a part of the composition team when he was in DT, but thus far in the post-MP era, the remaining four have written on their own, with no compositional input from MM.  No big deal.  Who cares?

Also, I would like to correct Rob a little: Derek did contribute on the changes made to ACOS.

the reason he hasnt composed on anything is because he has always been a session drummer outside of extreme.

[MetropolisxPt1]

I don't think those songs were meant to appease anyone, it was just the songs they wanted to write, especially because TDEN, CM, and Forsaken were written long before RR came into the picture

Those songs werent written to appeal to DT's metal and hard rock fanbase?

[7StringedBeast]

Stop feeding the troll.  There is a plethora of information proving MM is not just a session guy for DT.  It comes right from every member of the band's mouth.  So just ignore this dude.

[SystematicThought]

So he has been part of a band not as a session musician... kind of just screwed your whole argument there

And no, those songs probably weren't intentionally released to appeal to any one side. By saying that, one could say that every single song on SC and BC&SL is to appease the metal crowd. And TDEN is more progressive to me than all out metal.

[MetropolisxPt1]

So he has been part of a band not as a session musician... kind of just screwed your whole argument there

And no, those songs probably weren't intentionally released to appeal to any one side. By saying that, one could say that every single song on SC and BC&SL is to appease the metal crowd. And TDEN is more progressive to me than all out metal.

he was originally hired as a session drummer for extreme too to replace Paul Geary he only wrote 3 tracks for exteme

MM has gained all of his fame through session work mostly with Steve Vai and considering he played with extreme in 94 and they broke up in 96 after one album his non session work isnt looking strong.

comparing 8vm to SC and BC&SL their is a clear direction to be heavy and more mainstream at the same time if CM wasnt intended to sound metallica influenced then they went array.
Both RR albums have a much more generic mainstream metal sound to them SC much worse then BC.