What if MP wants to come back now?

[ariich]

Momentary Lapse > Division Bell

Although both are very good.

[wjc]

And continuing once more...

The thing with Roger Waters is that, even though he's known for leaving Pink Floyd on bad terms and even trying to sue them and whatnot, I can't say (and I'm sure a lot of people agree) that he was a bad musician, before OR after he left. In fact, his albums and especially his tours later on were amazing. He was just an amazing performer and solo act who just happened to be a little arrogant. It remains to be seen if Mike will create a similarly successful career for himself. Either way, we are witnessing history, who knows, maybe we'll look back at this 20-30 years from now and see this the same way we see Pink Floyd now. And maybe they'll reunite at Live 48, to raise money for something (global warming lol), along with the wrecked, raisin-like remains of Avenged Sevenfold and Neal Morse's head in a jar.

Waters was not a great musician. The music that he wrote was fairly straight-down-the-line, little more than a backing to his lyrics; his singing was pretty much the worst in the band (bar Nick Mason) although it did fit his songs better than Gilmour's; as a bassist he wasn't up to much - Gilmour even had to record the parts for Money. That said, he was a great lyricist and ideas man which Gilmour wasn't and their later albums suffered somewhat because of that.

Momentary Lapse > Division Bell

Although both are very good.

This. A Momentary Lapse of Reason has some horrible eighties moments but once you get past those it has a lot of amazing ones. Yet Another Movie/Round and Round is pretty much my favourite Floyd song, and A New Machine/Terminal Frost is great; in fact ignoring tracks 2-5 AMLR is one of their best IMAO, I'm not sure why, although after getting into music like Dream Theater I certainly appreciated it more.

[ReaperKK]

And continuing once more...

The thing with Roger Waters is that, even though he's known for leaving Pink Floyd on bad terms and even trying to sue them and whatnot, I can't say (and I'm sure a lot of people agree) that he was a bad musician, before OR after he left. In fact, his albums and especially his tours later on were amazing. He was just an amazing performer and solo act who just happened to be a little arrogant. It remains to be seen if Mike will create a similarly successful career for himself. Either way, we are witnessing history, who knows, maybe we'll look back at this 20-30 years from now and see this the same way we see Pink Floyd now. And maybe they'll reunite at Live 48, to raise money for something (global warming lol), along with the wrecked, raisin-like remains of Avenged Sevenfold and Neal Morse's head in a jar.

Waters was not a great musician. The music that he wrote was fairly straight-down-the-line, little more than a backing to his lyrics; his singing was pretty much the worst in the band (bar Nick Mason) although it did fit his songs better than Gilmour's; as a bassist he wasn't up to much - Gilmour even had to record the parts for Money. That said, he was a great lyricist and ideas man which Gilmour wasn't and their later albums suffered somewhat because of that.

I agree with this, Waters was a great lyricist and Gilmour recorded bass on more than one occasion for him. His strength was overall song structure and lyrical content although he did right some wordy songs at times.

[emindead]

Momentary Lapse > Division Bell

Although both are very good.

Wow, ariich! HELL NO!

[Metabog]

And continuing once more...

The thing with Roger Waters is that, even though he's known for leaving Pink Floyd on bad terms and even trying to sue them and whatnot, I can't say (and I'm sure a lot of people agree) that he was a bad musician, before OR after he left. In fact, his albums and especially his tours later on were amazing. He was just an amazing performer and solo act who just happened to be a little arrogant. It remains to be seen if Mike will create a similarly successful career for himself. Either way, we are witnessing history, who knows, maybe we'll look back at this 20-30 years from now and see this the same way we see Pink Floyd now. And maybe they'll reunite at Live 48, to raise money for something (global warming lol), along with the wrecked, raisin-like remains of Avenged Sevenfold and Neal Morse's head in a jar.

Waters was not a great musician. The music that he wrote was fairly straight-down-the-line, little more than a backing to his lyrics; his singing was pretty much the worst in the band (bar Nick Mason) although it did fit his songs better than Gilmour's; as a bassist he wasn't up to much - Gilmour even had to record the parts for Money. That said, he was a great lyricist and ideas man which Gilmour wasn't and their later albums suffered somewhat because of that.

Momentary Lapse > Division Bell

Although both are very good.

This. A Momentary Lapse of Reason has some horrible eighties moments but once you get past those it has a lot of amazing ones. Yet Another Movie/Round and Round is pretty much my favourite Floyd song, and A New Machine/Terminal Frost is great; in fact ignoring tracks 2-5 AMLR is one of their best IMAO, I'm not sure why, although after getting into music like Dream Theater I certainly appreciated it more.

Sorry, by musician I don't mean "instrumentalist", I just mean an all around performer, composer, etc.

[Raziel666]

On the Floyd subject, Waters is known to have written most of the material after Wish You Were Here. But many people believe that the best material came when all of them used to write together, not just Waters with minor Gilmour contributions.

I think the case is pretty similar to Dream Theater: Myung and LaBrie didn't have that much contribution lately...

[Metabog]

On the Floyd subject, Waters is known to have written most of the material after Wish You Were Here. But many people believe that the best material came when all of them used to write together, not just Waters with minor Gilmour contributions.

I think the case is pretty similar to Dream Theater: Myung and LaBrie didn't have that much contribution lately...

That's what we were discussing. 

[erik16]

It seems that MP indeed wanted to come back but the door is shut. He posted himself in MP forum:

Just for the record, this is indeed true..

Fairly recently, I reached out to the guys to try and make amends and offered to reconcile for the sake of having peace back in our lives...(plus I know how much it meant to alot of the fans...)

I figured it was still possible to try and save us because they hadn't made any announcements yet or begun any public activity with another drummer...but sadly, they declined my offer (well, actually their lawyer did...they didn't even tell me themselves....)

Sorry gang, I honestly gave it my all...
So now the fans on my twitter and facebook can please stop asking me to go back to DT...I tried, and the door is now shut...the ball is now in their court, not mine...

PS - I'm not crying or looking for mercy by posting this...I am merely trying to set the record straight as that is always the most important thing about my relationship with you guys...no BS, no spins, nothing to hide...and for better or for worse, I tell it like it is...

I've also recently seen some people accuse my online activity of "looking for attention or media coverage" or "looking for sympathy", but it's honestly none of the above...I merely value having an open and active communication with my fans...always have, always will...it is the cornerstone of everything I've done since day #1 with DT....

This was posted here FOR YOU GUYS to know about...here on MY message board on MY website....if it ends up on Blabbermouth or wherever else, that is THEIR choice to spread, I did not request it or send out a "press release"....

Anyways, onward and upward...
I've got alot of great music and ideas waiting to come out of me and alot of exciting collaborations in the works....so goodbye 2010...bring on 2011!

MP 

[Raziel666]

On the Floyd subject, Waters is known to have written most of the material after Wish You Were Here. But many people believe that the best material came when all of them used to write together, not just Waters with minor Gilmour contributions.

I think the case is pretty similar to Dream Theater: Myung and LaBrie didn't have that much contribution lately...

That's what we were discussing. 

I was just replying to Metabor's comment saying that Waters is a better composer!

[Metabog]

Wow at the MP post. Anyone interested by the fact that almost all the rumors so far have been true? How can we not know who the drummer is yet?!

I also can't believe the DT guys didn't even talk to him personally. That doesn't sound like a good relationship for people who have been in a band for more than 20 years. I can't help but feel a little sorry for MP, even though I think his leaving was overall a good thing for the band.

It's also funny that he says "Please don't tell me to go back to DT on my facebook anymore.

Meanwhile like 99% of his facebook wall posts are either:

"MIEK plz go back to DT we love u, come to chile, so technikul, so powah" or "go back 2 DT, u suk alone kthx."

"Guys, please, I can't go back to DT..."

"but... but... you ARE DT... "

"No, I'm not, they are a band of multiple people."

".... no more tehnikul?   "

[Perpetual Change]

Wow at the MP post. Anyone interested by the fact that almost all the rumors so far have been true? How can we not know who the drummer is yet?!

I also can't believe the DT guys didn't even talk to him personally. That doesn't sound like a good relationship for people who have been in a band for more than 20 years. I can't help but feel a little sorry for MP, even though I think his leaving was overall a good thing for the band.

Well, that's kinda how they handle things. I remember Derek got fired over a conference call or something.

[SixDegrees]

Much as I don't want MP back in DT, I feel terribly sorry for him. I'm sure everyone here has their own experience of screwing up irrevocably and having that horrible sick feeling of looking back and thinking "yep, I was wrong, and now it's too late". I hope he finds a great project to focus on and give him peace.

[Lowdz]

It's a bit shabby that DT left it to a lawyer to tell him. At least have enough backbone to own your decisions.
We've all made heat of the moment decisions that have come back to haunt us I'm sure, but there was enough of a cooling off period where MP could have had a better chance of his overture being met with a more positive response (certainly before making the split public... it was always going to be difficult afte this). Leaving it until after the auditions, and maybe notably after A7X's decision not to keep him on, was a bad move. It also probably supports the idea that the rest of DT weren't happy with MP's "direction" and were happy he left.
The old cliche of not burning bridges is appropriate here.

[erik16]

The way MP worded his post and the fact that he is once again posting on his forum makes me think that he has either got over the departure or he has calmed down quite a bit because he was making a lot of sense and he know how to address some of the comments that have been made about his internet activity lately.

[Nosirp Ssalg]

It's an incredibly quick change of heart by MP. It's only been some 100 days from the day he announced his departure from DT, and now this. It took me by surprise. It's a much less shocking surprise than the one I got from reading his departure announcement though.  

Also found that it's not very cool of MP to mention that the band's lawyer was communicating with him, and not the band members themselves. I always thought this kind of info should be kept private, and very surprised to learnt about that. It's some talking point for some people, that's for sure!  

[RazielSR]

so there it is...He regrets his decision cause was not rational, was just a big mistake. He thought it was rational, but time tells him no.

And again. I was bashed for that:

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=16386.msg586315#msg586315
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=16386.msg586252#msg586252
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=16386.msg586283#msg586283

[Bertielee]

It's an incredibly quick change of heart by MP. It's only been some 100 days from the day he announced his departure from DT, and now this. It took me by surprise. It's a much less shocking surprise than the one I got from reading his departure announcement though.  

Also found that it's not very cool of MP to mention that the band's lawyer was communicating with him, and not the band members themselves. I always thought this kind of info should be kept private, and very surprised to learnt about that. It's some talking point for some people, that's for sure!  

Don't like the lawyer mention either. Sorry, he seems to have calmed down, but the mention is, for me at least, another portrayal of the guys in DT as bad.

B.Lee

[tri.ad]

To be honest, DT telling MP it through their lawyer wasn't their smoothest move imo. But MP using that to jab at them once again is just about as bad.

This regret that he's feeling is only a logical consequence imo. Nevertheless, I feel kind of sorry for him, since this year (especially the last six months) must have been very hard for him. I hope he'll find some new strength and energy while recording with Neal Morse.

[Metabog]

It's a bit shabby that DT left it to a lawyer to tell him. At least have enough backbone to own your decisions.
We've all made heat of the moment decisions that have come back to haunt us I'm sure, but there was enough of a cooling off period where MP could have had a better chance of his overture being met with a more positive response (certainly before making the split public... it was always going to be difficult afte this). Leaving it until after the auditions, and maybe notably after A7X's decision not to keep him on, was a bad move. It also probably supports the idea that the rest of DT weren't happy with MP's "direction" and were happy he left.
The old cliche of not burning bridges is appropriate here.

They likely can't legally do that. It may be in the contract to not make that kind of decisions, and to leave it to the lawyer.

[Stoneyman]

You mean MP cant simply pull out his celly and call JP to talk about coming back?  Come on man!

Then again, MP QUIT THE BAND!  He has no horse in the race any more.  DT are busy moving forward and getting ready for the next chapter.  If anything, they should be even more pissed that he wants to come back after all the sh1t he put them through.  They just spent the last 3 months in a total professional upheaval caused by MP.  I'll bet that DT knew that MP would do this and didnt care.

Its easier to break up when you are pissed at each other.  If everybody loves each other its tougher and more emotional.  Now both camps have a chip on their shoulder and something to prove.  Dont worry, a few years down the road they will kiss and make up.

[RazielSR]

You mean MP cant simply pull out his celly and call JP to talk about coming back?  Come on man!

Then again, MP QUIT THE BAND!  He has no horse in the race any more.  DT are busy moving forward and getting ready for the next chapter.  If anything, they should be even more pissed that he wants to come back after all the sh1t he put them through.  They just spent the last 3 months in a total professional upheaval caused by MP.  I'll bet that DT knew that MP would do this and didnt care.

Its easier to break up when you are pissed at each other.  If everybody loves each other its tougher and more emotional.  Now both camps have a chip on their shoulder and something to prove.  Dont worry, a few years down the road they will kiss and make up.

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[Mat JB]

I hope that, if nothing else, MP learns the value of discretion from all of this.

Also, inserting...three periods...after every clause...in every paragraph...does not make...statements more...convincing, it just...implies...indecisiveness...and...a penchant for melodrama.

Take it away Marco!

[lordxizor]

Wow... I totally expected Mike to regret his decision after a while. I didn't expect him to try and get back in so soon. Good for the guys for standing up to him, but they should at least have the common decency to give Mike a call. I can completely understand why they wouldn't want him back at this point. He just said he needed a long break and now thinks he doesn't? How can he prove he's going have his heart in anything DT does? I think things ending with A7X shook Mike up a bit. He though he was going to have a few months of playing to clear his head and figure out what to do next. Now he's stuck with no real gig other than recording with neal Morse for a few weeks. Has to be a bit scary not knowing what's going to happen beyond that.

[SixDegrees]

Also, inserting...three periods...after every clause...in every paragraph...does not make...statements more...convincing, it just...implies...indecisiveness...and...a penchant for melodrama.

Yes, dammit!

[Lowdz]

Wow... I totally expected Mike to regret his decision after a while. I didn't expect him to try and get back in so soon. Good for the guys for standing up to him, but they should at least have the common decency to give Mike a call. I can completely understand why they wouldn't want him back at this point. He just said he needed a long break and now thinks he doesn't? How can he prove he's going have his heart in anything DT does? I think things ending with A7X shook Mike up a bit. He though he was going to have a few months of playing to clear his head and figure out what to do next. Now he's stuck with no real gig other than recording with neal Morse for a few weeks. Has to be a bit scary not knowing what's going to happen beyond that.

from the interview translation from the Aardschock magazine it sounded like he was saying he thought a break was still best but he'd take one for the team and do the album out of duty. That would be about as good as DT getting a stand-in for the album, which the band shot down very early as being half-assed DT. It would still have been half-assed DT.

[Mladen]

I really don't think Mike needed this. He put the band through all this shit, and now he wants to come back. He should have either kept his mouth shut, or not announce departure in the first place.

[Stoneyman]

I hope that, if nothing else, MP learns the value of discretion from all of this.

Also, inserting...three periods...after every clause...in every paragraph...does not make...statements more...convincing, it just...implies...indecisiveness...and...a penchant for melodrama.

Take it away Marco!

Dude, anyone who can kick a$$ playing in a space suit has my vote to be in DT.

[Raziel666]

I bet Derek Sherinian (who was fired through a conference if I remember correctly, but whose idea was it?) is laughing about this! They say that revenge is a dish best served cold. Now, after all those years, MP learns from a lawyer that he won't be accepted back to DT.

What do you know, life is a fickle bitch. (paraphrasing Ben Linus from Lost saying that "destiny is a fickle bitch")

[KevShmev]

Saying that their lawyer told him, not the guys, is just another way of him trying to make them look like the bad guys and himself as the victim.  Sad.

[Leorimus]

One thing I'd like to point out, is that Mike said that he called the guys to make amends and such and that the guys answered through their lawyer, now that doesn't make sense, unless he actually called JP and JP told him I'll get back to you on that one bye.  

My interpretation of this is that all talk at this point is being done through their respective lawyers, so probably MP had his lawyer to contact DT's lawyer to make the said proposal and was met with a no thanks...  Now this might sound cold and heartless, but actually it is not. When you have this type of break up, a lot of things have to be sorted out, economic, future royalties, etc. and it is BEST if while these negotiations take place all communication is done through their lawyers, you don't want sentimentalism, to get in the way they are both very emotionally envolved to think clearly. Think of a divorce, a lot of the times it happens like this, and even when they have one to one conversations they are advised to be done in front of their lawyers.

So I don't think there is any real animosity, it's just they way this things are handled professionally. That said I do feel for MP, I know it must be killing him to have screwed up so bad with one of the things most dear to him, aside from his family. I've been singing for my band for the past 19 years, and if I was in his position I'd would also be devastated, however he is an adult and must deal with the consequences of his decisions. I really hope both MP and DT have very succesfull careers from here on.

[Stoneyman]

Saying that their lawyer told him, not the guys, is just another way of him trying to make them look like the bad guys and himself as the victim.  Sad.

Definitely. 

MP has taken more backlash than support from "hurt" DT fans.  Maybe its just one more way he can get sympathy from DT fans.  Since HE LEFT, MP has always IMO slanted his words to make DT the bad guys who "FORCED him to quit by their unreasonable demands.

I still dig ya MP, but please shut up and move on.  I no longer feel sorry for ya buddy.

[ariich]

Is it just me or do most people fail really badly at reading comprehension?

From the sounds of it, MP hasn't changed his mind, he just wanted to go back to fix any personal issues the guys are having (he mentioned the fans as well, although I don't see what we should have to do with anything).

Also, the lawyer thing is slightly ambiguous, but the impression I get from what he said is that he started by speaking to the guys normally, but that the final decision was notified by the lawyer. Which is maybe not all that cool of the rest of the band, but it's certainly not an uncommon approach.

[Perpetual Change]

I'm glad he made the lawyer remark. That pretty much lets us know that the door is closed, and that the guys aren't communicating with Mike on a one-on-one level anymore. Now all that's left is to wonder whether they're just giving him the cold shoulder or if some serious crap actually went down that neither party is speaking about.

[Pyroph]

Wow, seems like anything MP does gets criticized and over-analyzed to death. It's getting a little stale (and sad), guys.

[Adami]

Wow, seems like anything MP does gets criticized and over-analyzed to death. It's getting a little stale (and sad), guys.

There really isn't much to over-analyze in this case. He isn't handling this with any sense of tact or self respect. You don't need to read too much into his statements.