A Hypothetical: Derek Sherinian in modern DT

[jfwund]

I too prefer Derek's playing to Jordan's, in most cases. However, and this is a crazy idea that wouldn't work I'm sure, it would be interesting (to say the least) if Derek and Jordan were both in DT contributing. How badass would a keyboard-guitar-keyboard unison be? Derek's looseness (I hesitate to say sloppiness, particularly when people like Jimmy Page have demonstrated how sloppy playing is part of creating an attitude) would play well I think against Jordan's technical playing, and I'd love to go to a concert and hear the two of them in a weird-ass sounds duel...

[rumborak]

Yeah, that's the quandry.  Scenes from a Memory is one of my favorite DT albums, and even though Derek was around during the early stages of it, I think the final product would have been quite different with Derek on keys.  So I wouldn't want that to go away.

The thing is, SFAM is the least Jordanesque album of them all, and I think it's due to the fact that most of it was written before he joined. So, a Derek SFAM would not have been that different really I think.

rumborak

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, that's the quandry.  Scenes from a Memory is one of my favorite DT albums, and even though Derek was around during the early stages of it, I think the final product would have been quite different with Derek on keys.  So I wouldn't want that to go away.

The thing is, SFAM is the least Jordanesque album of them all, and I think it's due to the fact that most of it was written before he joined. So, a Derek SFAM would not have been that different really I think.

rumborak

I don't think there would have been a DOE.

[razorsedge]

Yeah, that's the quandry.  Scenes from a Memory is one of my favorite DT albums, and even though Derek was around during the early stages of it, I think the final product would have been quite different with Derek on keys.  So I wouldn't want that to go away.

The thing is, SFAM is the least Jordanesque album of them all, and I think it's due to the fact that most of it was written before he joined. So, a Derek SFAM would not have been that different really I think.

rumborak

I don't think there would have been a DOE.

 

more importantly, no rag-time solo.

[Mladen]

I like Jordan's piano bits, especially in The Dance of eternity and The Dark eternal night. They sound very cool. 

[Slain]

I like Jordan's piano bits, especially in The Dance of eternity and The Dark eternal night. They sound very cool. 

I really think they're cool too. Maybe I'm a minority when I say that, but I love when JR experiments with tones or styles, sometimes it doesn't work but it seems like it's always on a different hit or miss basis with everyone

[BRGM]

Agreed! It's allways fun to see what his up to 

[orcus116]

I like Jordan's piano bits, especially in The Dance of eternity and The Dark eternal night. They sound very cool.  

I really think they're cool too. Maybe I'm a minority when I say that, but I love when JR experiments with tones or styles, sometimes it doesn't work but it seems like it's always on a different hit or miss basis with everyone

It just seems like it's been awhile since he's done something that's actually creative with these new tones and styles. When he got the Continnuum what he did with it sounded great. When he used Bebot it sounded not so great. It'd be unfair to discredit Bebot since I have no idea what you can actually do with it but it didn't sound like JR really used it to its potential. It also seems like whenever I see a video of his demoing stuff he likes to fly over the keyboard instead of creating something that sounds remotely like music.

[robwebster]

Oh, I dunno. He does some fugging cool stuff, too. This is worth a watch 'cause it's brilliant 'n' that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQlneYvY0jQ

And there was that vocoder stuff that he improvised about four or five songs on, that was fairly nifty. (If ridiculous. "Life on mars, it happens inside your heaaaaaaad!")

[TL]

I remember being excited about the possibilities when he demoed the Harpejji.
In theory, he used it on Raw Dog, but you can't really tell. To be fair, it does seem like an instrument suited to a very different style of song, and he still could do something interesting with it on future material.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHiVOffMyOY

[jdprsaga]

I often wonder what the album after Awake would have been had he stayed with the band...

after awake came A Change of Seasons.. i don't know.. i kind of can't imagine not having a change of seasons

[LKap13]

True, but most of ACoS had already been written by that point. In fact most of it was already written before Images and Words came out. In accordance with your objection, however, I will change my statement to: "I often wonder what the album after ACoS would have been had he stayed with the band..."

Somewhat off topic, but: Have you guys heard the Images Demos version of ACoS? Granted the singing is worse than Labrie, and some parts are raw, but the intro is KICKASS! I kind of like the demo intro to ACoS more than the studio version (though the studio version has its merits as well).

[SnakeEyes]

I'm one of the people who actually wishes Derek was still in the band.  In my opinion, his work on the one album he did with DT is better than ALL of Jordan's DT-related playing.  For example, the little Jazzy chord voicings and fills he does during the instrumental parts of Lines in the Sand, the solo of Burning my Soul, the nice keyboard backgrounds in Hollow Years.  Everything Derek did complimented the song perfectly.  Jordan, most of the time, is either trying to show how fast he can play OR doing some contrived part to show how great his compositional skills are.  I don't know.... I just thought Derek was more of a natural player, all around.  Definitely not as mechanically capable as Jordan, but this isn't sports, it's music. 

[TL]

One reason I'm glad they replaced Derek with Jordan; the title track on Octavarium.

I do really like Derek's style, and it would certainly be interesting to see how modern DT would have unfolded with him.

[rumborak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmJcIcTxYKk



rumborak

[BRGM]

Too much LITS in it...but still, I really like that guy! He's a very good keyboardist, I appreaciate...Jordan more, but Derek is almost as good, very close second




and Moore is somewhere down here, pfft       

[Perpetual Change]

Was listening to Falling into Infinity today. I totally get what Shirley was saying about Derek playing "against" John well. Whereas Jordan kinda of "accents" the music with lots of strings, orchestra drums, etc., Derek really "adds" to the music by playing around the other guys. For all Jordan's flash, I think Derek was the most noticeable keyboardist, at least musically. With Jordan (And Kevin, to a lesser degree), most of the time you really don't notice he's there until it's time for him to solo.

[tri.ad]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmJcIcTxYKk



rumborak

I wonder how his piano solos would sound today.

[Orbert]

Was listening to Falling into Infinity today. I totally get what Shirley was saying about Derek playing "against" John well. Whereas Jordan kinda of "accents" the music with lots of strings, orchestra drums, etc., Derek really "adds" to the music by playing around the other guys. For all Jordan's flash, I think Derek was the most noticeable keyboardist, at least musically. With Jordan (And Kevin, to a lesser degree), most of the time you really don't notice he's there until it's time for him to solo.

Dream Theater indulges their metal side to different degrees on different albums, and I'll admit that it's an oversimplification to say "the more metal it is, the less keyboards, because metal is more about guitars than keys" -- but it's something like that.  It's hard to find a way for keyboards to work in metal and/or prog metal, and I guess I just prefer how Derek works within the metal framework.  Jordan plays some awesome keys in an excellent prog metal band.  What he does with DT is great, and adds a lot.  But Derek's solo stuff and Planet X stuff kick some serious ass IMO, and I would love to hear an instrumental album by Derek, JP, JM, and MP.  Taking some of the jams they did on FII and on that tour and going to the next level with it would be sweet.  Hey, it could happen.

Yeah, and while I'm dreaming, maybe they could call the side project Fluid Stress Hypothesis, and MP and JP would get so fired up about playing with Derek that they fire Jordan and hire Derek into DT.  And then tell everyone that he was the one they really wanted all along, but he wanted to do his own thing for like ten years or whatever, but Jordan really was the second choice all this time and...

[nakedman]

I'm trying to come up with something to say that doesn't dissolve into the old Derek vs KM vs Jordan debate, and it's tough.  Derek was and still is my favorite DT keyboard player, despite his relatively short tenure with them.  Jordan obviously has immense talent as a player and soundsmith, but most of the time he's either playing stuff that's so far out there that I think WTF? or essentially playing the part of a second guitarist.  A lot of Jordan's solos sound like what a guitarist would play in the same situation, except that it's being played on keys.  Derek and JP played off of each other in much more the way I feel a keyboardist and guitarist should, complimenting each other and each playing to their strengths.  In other words, Derek actually filled the role of keyboardist in a band the way I prefer it.  Rather than moments of "Oh cool, a weirdass keyboard part", everything blended together much better.  There was more of a feeling that all members were contributing musically than what we have now.

So... that was then.  If Derek were in the band now, I would hope that the dynamic were similar.  Derek has matured a lot as both a player and a person, and I agree that DT seems to have a different attitude now about... attitudes.  I don't listen to DT nearly as much now as I did five years or more years ago, and that's largely because I find what they're doing now to be boring, even as the band sees itself as taking more risks and taking things farther. 

If Derek were in the band now, there's a good chance that I'd like them better and listen to them more.

[Plasmastrike]

Was listening to Falling into Infinity today. I totally get what Shirley was saying about Derek playing "against" John well. Whereas Jordan kinda of "accents" the music with lots of strings, orchestra drums, etc., Derek really "adds" to the music by playing around the other guys. For all Jordan's flash, I think Derek was the most noticeable keyboardist, at least musically. With Jordan (And Kevin, to a lesser degree), most of the time you really don't notice he's there until it's time for him to solo.

Dream Theater indulges their metal side to different degrees on different albums, and I'll admit that it's an oversimplification to say "the more metal it is, the less keyboards, because metal is more about guitars than keys" -- but it's something like that.  It's hard to find a way for keyboards to work in metal and/or prog metal, and I guess I just prefer how Derek works within the metal framework.  Jordan plays some awesome keys in an excellent prog metal band.  What he does with DT is great, and adds a lot.  But Derek's solo stuff and Planet X stuff kick some serious ass IMO, and I would love to hear an instrumental album by Derek, JP, JM, and MP.  Taking some of the jams they did on FII and on that tour and going to the next level with it would be sweet.  Hey, it could happen.

Yeah, and while I'm dreaming, maybe they could call the side project Fluid Stress Hypothesis, and MP and JP would get so fired up about playing with Derek that they fire Jordan and hire Derek into DT.  And then tell everyone that he was the one they really wanted all along, but he wanted to do his own thing for like ten years or whatever, but Jordan really was the second choice all this time and...

You may be onto something.

Orbert and others, good posts regarding DS. Lots of thought-provoking things being said.

[DT05]

He would probably usher in a great new era but I wouldn't want Rudess to go

[hefdaddy42]

Goodbye!  Have a nice life.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

I would kill to hear his monster lead on another album

[Orbert]

Goodbye!  Have a nice life.

[Max Kuehnau]

I would kill to hear his monster lead on another album

you can, on every album Derek appears on

[Max Kuehnau]

Goodbye!  Have a nice life.

brilliant delivery 

[Puppies_On_Acid]

Goodbye!  Have a nice life.

OK, now all your bump posts make sense. That guy was the literal definition of an internet troll.

Thanks for slaying the trolls Hef!

[CraftyCaleb2483]

you can, on every album Derek appears on

    I meant a DT album, I don't really like his solo stuff

[Schurftkut]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC_DSUL5wvI

maybe JM playing the bass and Rod Morgenstein on drums can pursuade you?

[CraftyCaleb2483]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC_DSUL5wvI

maybe JM playing the bass and Rod Morgenstein on drums can pursuade you?

That's not really my style to be honest! And who is Rod Morgenstein?

[Max Kuehnau]

Rod is the drummer (and one of the founding members) of the Dixie Dregs. Him and Jordan worked together quite a bit, both as part of the Dregs and otherwise. They also opened for DT on parts of the FII tour in 1997

[CraftyCaleb2483]

Rod is the drummer (and one of the founding members) of the Dixie Dregs. Him and Jordan worked together quite a bit, both as part of the Dregs and otherwise. They also opened for DT on parts of the FII tour in 1997

I see

[gzarruk]

    I meant a DT album, I don't really like his solo stuff

Not DT, but I highly recommend listening to Whom Gods Destroy - Insanium. It's a much better and upgraded version of what he did with Portnoy on Sons of Apollo.

[Max Kuehnau]

very much so yes, in any aspect