Hugh Syme is at it again

[ganpondorodf]

Good artists borrow and great artists steal, so you may be onto something!

[MoraWintersoul]

Of course it's a big deal. If he openly told them "and this spread I already sold to a different band and it's going to appear in their booklet", they would not have bought that one as a part of the package. I feel so embarrassed for Hugh looking at that big video of them unboxing the package and praising him for the amount of on-theme art he managed to produce - it's not that difficult to produce so much art if you're gonna reuse some of it for several different bands...

Dream Theater have nothing to be embarrassed about here, but they also would not be in this story if they had developed a taste in visual arts beyond "which artist worked for Rush" Hugh's been lazy, putting unaltered and highly specific stock images haphazardly into little montages for years on end, of course he's going to get even lazier if people keep working with him despite that.

[SwedishGoose]

If Dream Theater or Orion bought exclusive rights then there is an issue with this otherwise not. Great for Orion to get so much free publicity.

Exclusive or not I for one am super happy with the Artbook. I love the eerie style of the images and think they fit the theme very nicely.

[TAC]

but they also would not be in this story if they had developed a taste in visual arts beyond "which artist worked for Rush"

Yeah, this is how I feel as well.

[Kocak]

Did the band address this at all?

[TAC]

Did the band address this at all?

MP did. It's in an earlier post in the thread.

[BlackInk]

Does black text mean anything specific here or is it just something people do to make others squint at every other sentence?

[MirrorMask]

Does black text mean anything specific here or is it just something people do to make others squint at every other sentence?

Well if they use a light theme they don't need to squint... (but I don't, so I have to highlight everything to read, team Beneath The Surface forever)

[BlackInk]

Well if they use a light theme they don't need to squint... (but I don't, so I have to highlight everything to read, team Beneath The Surface forever)

Sure, but in that case, doesn't the bright text in their own posts become a problem?    I'm just intigued by the switching back and forth within the same post, which made me unsure whether it means something specific, like green text does.

[ReaperKK]

I rarely get the black text on posts but when I do I just hit ctrl+a to highlight everything so I can read it.

[illusionist]

Hugh Syme shouldn't have done artwork for DT since... well long ago.
He doesn't respect his clients, he is lazy, i guess he doesn't have any new ideas so he relies heavily on his previous work and on AI, and the Parasomnia cover is totally horrific.
There,i said it.
John and Mike should do much better with their next album.
Maybe they should hire the guy who did the Astonishing, or any young artist with fresh ideas and the desire to show his work and prove his value.
Disgusting.

[ariich]

Sure, but in that case, doesn't the bright text in their own posts become a problem?    I'm just intigued by the switching back and forth within the same post, which made me unsure whether it means something specific, like green text does.

I assume they've copied and pasted it from somewhere else, so it takes the actual colour from whatever they've copied. The white text we see on a dark theme won't be white for them, it'll be "default" colour depending on the theme (so we see it as white, they see it as black, no different from the text they copied from elsewhere).

[tuto]

Why should anyone care what a school's plagiarism policy is?  We're not talking about school kids getting busted for writing a paper and passing off someone's work as their own.  We're talking about the definition of words and how they are used by adults in the real world.  "Plariarism" just doens't fit this situation. 

Right, and that's a you problem, and not a Hugh Syme problem.  You don't like it?  Cool.  That and $6 will get you a cup of coffee.  Otherwise, nobody cares.

Absolutely no reason to respond to someone's comment in a civil discussion in that manner, when the OP was not being disrespectful in any way 

[WardySI]

Slightly off topic (is there a thread exclusively for the Parasomnia artwork I couldn't find one?)...

Can anyone answer is the artwork of the several creepy ragged peeps floating in a circle found in the regular LP issue (or CD booklet for that matter)?  For that matter I assume the regular LPs come with a booklet, but the couple of unboxings I've watched skip through too fast for me to see if it's there.

That's sick artwork, but I am fearing I would need spend a small fortune on the boxset to have it?

[faizoff]

Can anyone answer is the artwork of the several creepy ragged peeps floating in a circle found in the regular LP issue (or CD booklet for that matter)?  For that matter I assume the regular LPs come with a booklet, but the couple of unboxings I've watched skip through too fast for me to see if it's there.

I have the artbook CD/Blu-ray package and it's in there. In the unboxing video I think it was a poster of those floating dudes. In the artbook it's captioned with zzz which makes it not so creepy.

[Northern Lion]

Absolutely no reason to respond to someone's comment in a civil discussion in that manner, when the OP was not being disrespectful in any way 

Um, Bosk is King here and runs the forum. As far as I'm concerned he can say what ever he wants. Or even moon us all for that matter.

[ytserush]

He made a name for himself with Rush, starting with Caress Of Steel. Since then, he's given album art to Iron Maiden, Megadeth, Saga, Styx, Altered State, Fates Warning, Whitesnake, Queensrÿche, Aerosmith, and of course, Dream Theater (who seem to ponder the question "What Would Rush Do?" quite often).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Syme

-Marc.

Didn't realize he did Altered State. Gonna pull that off of the shelf and take a look see.

[tuto]

Um, Bosk is King here and runs the forum. As far as I'm concerned he can say what ever he wants. Or even moon us all for that matter.

Yeah, that totally gives him a free pass to post nasty replies unprovoked 

[misterbiscuit]

Syme's not an artist, he's a commodifier. Big difference.

[Stadler]

You guys do you, but from my perspective, it's one thing to not like someone's art; it's entirely another thing to guess and speculate about their motives, their intentions, their integrity, the integrity of their clients...

I dunno.  I think the book is STUNNING. Breathtaking.  I don't give a rat's ass if one of the drawings appears somewhere else.*   I kind of think some of the details are disturbing in a way consistent with the themes.  With the understanding that I haven't seen any of the artists comment on the art, I'm kind of buying into the theory that the shadows and doorknobs are part of the dreamscape. 


* Not that I condone stealing or anything like that; just the opposite, actually.  And I understand if others do care; that's their prerogative.  But I also believe the process will play itself out; if Orion has a legit claim to the artwork, they'll make it, and if the courts agree, they will be paid. Unless and until that happens, and without reading any of the contracts, I have no basis to make most of the assertions being made here.

[Northern Lion]

You guys do you, but from my perspective, it's one thing to not like someone's art; it's entirely another thing to guess and speculate about their motives, their intentions, their integrity, the integrity of their clients...

I dunno.  I think the book is STUNNING. Breathtaking.  I don't give a rat's ass if one of the drawings appears somewhere else.*   I kind of think some of the details are disturbing in a way consistent with the themes.  With the understanding that I haven't seen any of the artists comment on the art, I'm kind of buying into the theory that the shadows and doorknobs are part of the dreamscape. 


* Not that I condone stealing or anything like that; just the opposite, actually.  And I understand if others do care; that's their prerogative.  But I also believe the process will play itself out; if Orion has a legit claim to the artwork, they'll make it, and if the courts agree, they will be paid. Unless and until that happens, and without reading any of the contracts, I have no basis to make most of the assertions being made here.

You're talking sense here Stadler 😊

[Thoughtspart3]

The fact that Orion and MP are disappointed by the reused art makes it a big deal for them. This does not destroy the whole album or anything like that. Hopefully more reused art doesn't pop up though.

MP did handle it well. Glad he addressed it.

The real issue is, did Hugh give the impression that it was all original work for the Parasomnia project? If he did then they should call him out on that. It is embarrassing for DT at the least and not something you want to deal with at an album release. We won't know unless the band makes it public.   

[Skeever]

I think that people make mistakes so best not to judge.

Syme delivered a ton of art for that art book. He's also in his 70s. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that there is some kind of explanation. Maybe he misfiled the fact that he already licensed out one bit of art for Orion because he'd had a different version already planned to go somewhere in the DT booklet. Or maybe the two artists bought similar photos at the same time to use for similar projects, so they both wind up looking like they've got egg on their faces. The two photos, while mostly the same, ARE in fact a little bit different, so it's highly possible that the artworks were being sold separately, and an artist could have bought one of the photos to use, while another artist could have bought the different one. Syme maybe should have considered that this might create an issue but, maybe, due to who knows how many possible reasons, he just didn't think of it?

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, assuming there was no ill-will at work with any of the parties. similarly, my read on JP is that he is a man who values his relationships, and his loyal to people he trusts, especially when they have a long term partnership like DT and Syme. However, I think the Orion guy already decided in his head that going this route was the best way forward - for him. Probably the best marketing he's ever gotten.

[SwedishGoose]

You guys do you, but from my perspective, it's one thing to not like someone's art; it's entirely another thing to guess and speculate about their motives, their intentions, their integrity, the integrity of their clients...

I dunno.  I think the book is STUNNING. Breathtaking.  I don't give a rat's ass if one of the drawings appears somewhere else.*   I kind of think some of the details are disturbing in a way consistent with the themes.  With the understanding that I haven't seen any of the artists comment on the art, I'm kind of buying into the theory that the shadows and doorknobs are part of the dreamscape. 


* Not that I condone stealing or anything like that; just the opposite, actually.  And I understand if others do care; that's their prerogative.  But I also believe the process will play itself out; if Orion has a legit claim to the artwork, they'll make it, and if the courts agree, they will be paid. Unless and until that happens, and without reading any of the contracts, I have no basis to make most of the assertions being made here.

Totally agree with Stadler here.

The Artbook is stunning to me and to my family. The images are perfect for the theme.

If either Orion or Dream Theater had an exclusive clause in their contract with Syme this will be handled legally if not then it is ok for them to have bought the same mage.

[WardySI]

I have the artbook CD/Blu-ray package and it's in there. In the unboxing video I think it was a poster of those floating dudes. In the artbook it's captioned with zzz which makes it not so creepy.

Thanks faizoff and for uploading the pic. 
Yes Zzzz not so creepy but man that artwork rocks \m/

K so I am going assume it's not in the regular CD or LP booklets and if want my copy with it I will have to invest in one of the more deluxe versions. 

Cheers!

[bosk1]

Yeah, that totally gives him a free pass to post nasty replies unprovoked 

There's nothing "nasty" about calling out when someone is objectively incorrect, especially when they are trying to play "gotcha" on things that aren't "gotchas."  When someone is wrong and disrespectful here, they are likely to get called out for it.  And it's not your job to further derail the thread.  If you have questions or opinions about that, you are welcome to take them to PM.


@Wardy:  Yeah, the regular CD has a lot of cool artwork as well.  But the artbook has even more and, of course, bigger images.  I don't have it, but it looks really cool.

[SwedishGoose]

Well the Artbook is not too expensive considering what you get.

Just a little bit more than the vinyls.

[illusionist]

The fact that Orion and MP are disappointed by the reused art makes it a big deal for them. This does not destroy the whole album or anything like that. Hopefully more reused art doesn't pop up though.

MP did handle it well. Glad he addressed it.

Could you please link MP answer here as i didn't find it anywhere.

[MoraWintersoul]

However, I think the Orion guy already decided in his head that going this route was the best way forward - for him. Probably the best marketing he's ever gotten.

But what else was he supposed to do? He had the artwork first, but due to release dates and "band seniority", everyone who buys his album without looking at the credits is going to assume he stole from Dream Theater. Furthermore, when you shell out the big bucks for artwork as a smaller band, you tend to assume that something like this will not happen to you because the artist is reputable. Yeah, it's on him that he worked without a contract but I would not be shocked if DT also worked without a contract with Hugh. And lastly, he's really just crowdfunding advice. Maybe no one in his direct network knows what the best course of action is.

[Pettor]

Um, Bosk is King here and runs the forum. As far as I'm concerned he can say what ever he wants. Or even moon us all for that matter.

Holding people of power to a different standard than the rest of the forum sounds like an awful idea. Reddit is a good example to why it doesn't work either.

[Pettor]

Could you please link MP answer here as i didn't find it anywhere.

MP knows about this.

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fguy-reports-on-fb-hugh-copy-pasted-his-own-albums-artwork-v0-7ypmjqs70she1.png%3Fwidth%3D750%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D04c98ed8b23353485dbae36a2de1b877a3245568

 

[Pettor]

Hopefully, this is a good time to move on from Syme. I just don't think the quality has been where it should be. BC&SL and ADTOE were great, but the rest have been merely acceptable at best. In contrast, the older artwork was almost always intriguing, with Train of Thought standing out as a particular highlight.

Now, imagine Parasomnia with a more refined, serious artistic style — it could be something truly special.

[Rob24]

Jesus, now I remember why I post once in every 16 years here. It's the admins and this kind of cocky attitude and addressing people.

It's absolutely bonkers. The way this place is moderated you would think these people are intentionally trying to create the worst social space possible. Sometimes I legitimately laugh about the absurdity.

What a horrible response by bosk, Jesus Christ.

[Skeever]

But what else was he supposed to do? He had the artwork first, but due to release dates and "band seniority", everyone who buys his album without looking at the credits is going to assume he stole from Dream Theater. Furthermore, when you shell out the big bucks for artwork as a smaller band, you tend to assume that something like this will not happen to you because the artist is reputable. Yeah, it's on him that he worked without a contract but I would not be shocked if DT also worked without a contract with Hugh. And lastly, he's really just crowdfunding advice. Maybe no one in his direct network knows what the best course of action is.

I think he should contact Hugh Syme and ask him WTF.

[Kyo]

It's silly to imply there's nothing wrong with telling a customer "I'm currently working on artwork for the new Dream Theater album" but not mentioning that they'll be using the same artwork you're currently offering the customer. Ethically it's such an obvious problem, the legalities of the individual contract/agreement are practically irrelevant. Once this goes public, the damage to Syme's reputation is done and it's all on him.