DreamSonic 2023

[faizoff]

Another pic from the DT subreddit, really hope the guy is ok.
 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I can't say whether Devin's banter is better than JLB's. But in terms of stage presence, the reason why Devin's act is so much different has to do with the music he is playing. He wouldn't have so much more stage presence if he had to remember and play Count of Tuscany or the Alien.

If a Dream Theater show is like watching a top classical pianist try to play a 2 hour show of Chopin and Liszt, Devin is like watching Drake. Yeah, I mean, there is going to be a difference in how they interact with the audience from the stage.

[Metro]

Devin is like watching Drake.

lol no

[KevShmev]

Yeah, that might be the worst analogy I have ever heard.  What a load of steaming horse shit. (sorry if that sounds harsh, but let's be serious)

Anyway, that is scary to see Myung like that. Hopefully, he is okay and recovers well!

And I am with zappafrank2112 on earplugs. I bring them to all shows now.  I will often take them out for the a mellow song or two (like if there is just an acoustic song with no bass and drums), but my tinnitus is a bit annoying already without making it worse.

[krands85]

For all the people saying it's too loud, why aren't you wearing earplugs?

There's no excuse not to wear earplugs.  I myself happen to even wear them for outdoor shows, and regardless of indoor/outdoor, never once have I thought, "this sucks so bad having to wear earplugs, it sounds awful."

It objectively sounds better with earplugs in, even the foam kind you get at the pharmacy, because they balance everything out.

Complaining that it's too loud without protection is like complaining the sun is too bright but refusing to wear sunglasses.

Absolutely boggles my mind that people don't wear them. Potential hearing damage? Horrible ringing in your ears after the show? Overwhelming, unclear sound? All solved by wearing earplugs. Somehow it's seen as 'uncool' and you hear people say things like "it's a rock concert, it's supposed to be loud!". Yeah it's still plenty loud if you wear them, you just get a better listening experience and aren't risking damaging your hearing. Obviously it's up to the individual at the end of the day, but it really grinds my gears for some reason 

Anyway, I hope JM is OK - thankfully it doesn't seem too serious if he's still able to perform.

[ReaperKK]

Another pic from the DT subreddit, really hope the guy is ok.
 

Oh man poor JM, that doesn't look good. If JM needs some time to heal they can call in MP on the bass, that'll make DT fans happy right?

[Metro]

I mean, just take a song like By Your Command for example, which Dev has been playing this tour.
I'd say that song is just as difficult as a Dream Theater song. He's playing and singing at the same time, as well as doing stage banter in the middle of the song and keeping the audience engaged. Comparing him to someone like Drake is a slap in the face.

Absolutely boggles my mind that people don't wear them. Potential hearing damage? Horrible ringing in your ears after the show? Overwhelming, unclear sound? All solved by wearing earplugs. Somehow it's seen as 'uncool' and you hear people say things like "it's a rock concert, it's supposed to be loud!". Yeah it's still plenty loud if you wear them, you just get a better listening experience and aren't risking damaging your hearing. Obviously it's up to the individual at the end of the day, but it really grinds my gears for some reason 

A friend of mine, and frequent concert buddy, refuses to wear earplugs when we go to shows. He said, and I quote, "I don't care if I lose my hearing." 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

To clarify: the analogy was only meant to compare the difficulty of performing the work in a live setting. I am not comparing Devin's music to Drake but the reality is that his guitar parts are incredibly easy relative to what JP is doing live and that that likely explains the difference in stage presence.

ALSO to clarify, I am not diminishing what Drake is doing at his concerts. I am just saying I would expect him to have more 'stage presence' than a classical pianist because the requirements are very different.

[svisser]

ALSO to clarify, I am not diminishing what Drake is doing at his concerts. I am just saying I would expect him to have more 'stage presence' than a classical pianist because the requirements are very different.

What if Drake took up classical piano to spite you?

[Herrick]

To clarify: the analogy was only meant to compare the difficulty of performing the work in a live setting. I am not comparing Devin's music to Drake but the reality is that his guitar parts are incredibly easy relative to what JP is doing live and that that likely explains the difference in stage presence.

ALSO to clarify, I am not diminishing what Drake is doing at his concerts. I am just saying I would expect him to have more 'stage presence' than a classical pianist because the requirements are very different.

I thought the comparisons to stage presence/stage banter were between Townsend and LaBrie.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

To clarify: the analogy was only meant to compare the difficulty of performing the work in a live setting. I am not comparing Devin's music to Drake but the reality is that his guitar parts are incredibly easy relative to what JP is doing live and that that likely explains the difference in stage presence.

ALSO to clarify, I am not diminishing what Drake is doing at his concerts. I am just saying I would expect him to have more 'stage presence' than a classical pianist because the requirements are very different.

I thought the comparisons to stage presence/stage banter were between Townsend and LaBrie.

If that is the case then I guess that comparison goes out the window. I think he said Dream Theater and not just JLB but if it was a singer to singer comparison, he may well be right.

[crystalstars17]

It's been a loooooong time since I've posted.

From watching the videos on YouTube, my sense is that the band sounds phenomenal but...James is washed.

This pains me to write.

DT has been my favorite band since 1997. I first heard them when Awake was released in 1994. I've seen them live many times and regularly listen to their albums - all of them. I'm thankful they still release new material and tour after all these years. I've heard the knocks against James for a long time. I feel that now he still has value in the studio but live he's the liability in the band performance-wise.

I'm wondering how long it will go on before live shows become a mockery of the band's legacy due to the vocals. Changing the melody, tuning down, etc. helps but he has become flat and pitchy to the detriment of the band.

What the band and James decide to do in the future is completely up to them. I sense this may be coming to an end sooner than later.

Where'd you crawl up from? 😠 You say you haven't posted in a very long time, and then you come here to say this?!?!?

All I can say is that you must've come from Reddit. This is classic Reddit talk. And I doubt very much that it "pains you" to write it, or else you wouldn't have done so. Sometimes it's best to sit on your hands and just not post at all (if you can't say something nice...). Or, ya know....go back to Reddit, or whatever cesspool of online bullying your preference fancies.

You of course are entitled to your own opinion, but really, this bullying of James within the fandom has got to stop.

Those of us here at DT Forums should set a better example.

[Schurftkut]

the sales of tickets will dictate how much of a career is left for JLB

[Metro]

Where'd you crawl up from? 😠 You say you haven't posted in a very long time, and then you come here to say this?!?!?

All I can say is that you must've come from Reddit. This is classic Reddit talk. And I doubt very much that it "pains you" to write it, or else you wouldn't have done so. Sometimes it's best to sit on your hands and just not post at all (if you can't say something nice...). Or, ya know....go back to Reddit, or whatever cesspool of online bullying your preference fancies.

You of course are entitled to your own opinion, but really, this bullying of James within the fandom has got to stop.

Those of us here at DT Forums should set a better example.

You gotta chill out. This post was far more toxic than anything I've seen on reddit.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I think the band plans on doing this for a long time to come, thankfully. I've gone over the reasons why I think that but to add to the list: JP is now selling his Impulse Responses from recordings and I think he plans on doing this regularly. Plus he has got a ton of other signature gear. Keep in mind that DT is the driving force behind sales. If they stop making music, they become a thing of the past and it'll have a major impact on his other streams of income too. And money aside I think the guys really love what they do.

If ticket sales were to go down for whatever reason I think they'd just downscale the shows and tours. They wouldn't just hang it up.

[Stadler]

I can't say whether Devin's banter is better than JLB's. But in terms of stage presence, the reason why Devin's act is so much different has to do with the music he is playing. He wouldn't have so much more stage presence if he had to remember and play Count of Tuscany or the Alien.

If a Dream Theater show is like watching a top classical pianist try to play a 2 hour show of Chopin and Liszt, Devin is like watching Drake. Yeah, I mean, there is going to be a difference in how they interact with the audience from the stage.

Drake as in the rapper Drake?   

Look, I'm the king of bad analogies and some of these even I wouldn't use. 

As long as there's an "Iron Maiden" and a "Bruce Dickinson", I think the notion that only simpler music can support a dynamic stage presence is a faulty conclusion.  We KNOW what DT is after 30 years.  This is what we get.  We KNOW what Devin is after how ever many years.  That is what we get.  Comparing the two is useless.  It's not, at this point, whether they "CAN", it's whether they "WILL". 

And if they don't, well, I think that's on the listener.  I'd honestly be pretty bummed if the band was reading all this and going "wow, the fans said THIS, we have to do that!"   I want what DT wants to give me, not the other way around.  I know for me, and only me, while I accept that it isn't perfect, I've pretty much liked what I've gotten over the past 30 years (yes, I got on board with Images and Words back in the day). 

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but "The Portnoy Incident" is a far bigger issue for me than James' singing.  Sorry, it just is.  (But even then, I'm STILL on board). 

[KevShmev]

Where'd you crawl up from? 😠 You say you haven't posted in a very long time, and then you come here to say this?!?!?

All I can say is that you must've come from Reddit. This is classic Reddit talk. And I doubt very much that it "pains you" to write it, or else you wouldn't have done so. Sometimes it's best to sit on your hands and just not post at all (if you can't say something nice...). Or, ya know....go back to Reddit, or whatever cesspool of online bullying your preference fancies.

You of course are entitled to your own opinion, but really, this bullying of James within the fandom has got to stop.

Those of us here at DT Forums should set a better example.

You gotta chill out. This post was far more toxic than anything I've seen on reddit.

Agreed.

crystalstars17, your post was unkind, to say the least, and towards a poster who has more of a history here than you do, even if most of it is not as recent.

And no one is bullying James. 

[XJDenton]

Where'd you crawl up from? 😠 You say you haven't posted in a very long time, and then you come here to say this?!?!?

All I can say is that you must've come from Reddit. This is classic Reddit talk. And I doubt very much that it "pains you" to write it, or else you wouldn't have done so. Sometimes it's best to sit on your hands and just not post at all (if you can't say something nice...). Or, ya know....go back to Reddit, or whatever cesspool of online bullying your preference fancies.

You of course are entitled to your own opinion, but really, this bullying of James within the fandom has got to stop.

Those of us here at DT Forums should set a better example.

You gotta chill out. This post was far more toxic than anything I've seen on reddit.

Agreed.

crystalstars17, your post was unkind, to say the least, and towards a poster who has more of a history here than you do, even if most of it is not as recent.

And no one is bullying James. 

Quite. Mild critique of his vocal performance is nowhere near bullying, and certainly not against the rules of this forum. So might I suggest if you disagree to counter/reply with something better than "you must have crawled out of Reddit".

[Metro]

And no one is bullying James. 

Try THAT in a small town.

[crystalstars17]

Where'd you crawl up from? 😠 You say you haven't posted in a very long time, and then you come here to say this?!?!?

All I can say is that you must've come from Reddit. This is classic Reddit talk. And I doubt very much that it "pains you" to write it, or else you wouldn't have done so. Sometimes it's best to sit on your hands and just not post at all (if you can't say something nice...). Or, ya know....go back to Reddit, or whatever cesspool of online bullying your preference fancies.

You of course are entitled to your own opinion, but really, this bullying of James within the fandom has got to stop.

Those of us here at DT Forums should set a better example.

You gotta chill out. This post was far more toxic than anything I've seen on reddit.

Agreed.

crystalstars17, your post was unkind, to say the least, and towards a poster who has more of a history here than you do, even if most of it is not as recent.

And no one is bullying James. 

I do apologize for offending as many as I obviously did, sincerely. But I will maintain that, however long as this person has been here, they not only declared him "washed up" but then admitted to having based this opinion on YouTube videos. After all of the prior discussion regarding how wrong and inaccurate it is to base such judgement on YouTube videos, length of account history trumps that. I get it, but does that give them the right to make such a judgement call?

[efx]

I agree that account history however you define it is perhaps not the best way to structure an argument but on the other hand I don't think the debate over how youtube videos makes one sound is as settled as you seem to argue. Every video I have seen posted here more or less lines up with my own experience of seeing this band the last few years.

[crystalstars17]

I think we can all agree that a cell phone microphone, no matter how advanced, is not optimally calibrated to record the overtones of the trained human voice.

[Adami]

I think we can all agree that a cell phone microphone, no matter how advanced, is not optimally calibrated to record the overtones of the trained human voice.

And I’d argue that none of that impacts whether or not he’s singing on key or how he sounds for the most part.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Unedited cell phone videos are not only a legitimate way of finding out what actually happened at a show, they're the best medium available and infinitely more unbiased than saying how you felt or what you remembered when you were there.

A world in which video evidence is subordinate proof to eye witness testimony is a totally insane one.

[efx]

Sure, just as it wouldn't be the optimal way to capture the sound of JP's amp. But it still captures perfectly well if JP bends a note out of tune or executes a run in a less than stellar way. And couple that with how many people's (including my own) experiences of him live corresponds with what people are hearing on youtube videos and it's obvious that there's more to it than just a shitty cellphone mic corrupting his performance.

[KevShmev]

I do apologize for offending as many as I obviously did, sincerely. But I will maintain that, however long as this person has been here, they not only declared him "washed up" but then admitted to having based this opinion on YouTube videos. After all of the prior discussion regarding how wrong and inaccurate it is to base such judgement on YouTube videos, length of account history trumps that. I get it, but does that give them the right to make such a judgement call?

As others have said, there was no consensus on that either way, and as has been noted by others, raw, unedited video evidence is more reliable than anecdotal evidence, especially when the latter is off tainted in a good way by the euphoria and excitement of being at a live show.  No, a cell phone video may not pick up all the nuances that a good professional recording would, but a cell phone recording isn't going to magically make an on-key or on-pitch singer suddenly sound off-key or off-pitch.   

[Herrick]

I think we can all agree that a cell phone microphone, no matter how advanced, is not optimally calibrated to record the overtones of the trained human voice.

I agree with that but I still think cellphones are good enough to provide a mostly accurate reproduction of how something sounds.

Edit: I don't think Anxiety35's criticisms were that bad or out of line.

[crystalstars17]

I could imagine that for the past many years, James has been well aware of the negative things said about him and his voice. I feel for James. He almost loses his voice in 94, then has to go and sing a bunch of songs that has him at the edge of his ability for years while all the while hearing the negativity come his way. Then the band nearly gets rid of him in 2001 (or 2000?). Then he hears his former band make (MP) bash him "accidentally" on a live radio show a few years ago.

I do see a problem with his performance. I could imagine there might be some hearing loss that has made things pitchy for him. I don't know what would fix all that, but i get the idea that James really does try. He clearly takes incredible care of what voice he has left. You could tell the moments in his performance when he held back for the sake of a more important segment. His interview with the The Charismatic Voice proves that he has excellent care routines.

I feel that he entered a new era of vocal problems around The Astonishing tour. It really seemed to take a bad step forward with the following IAW tour. To me, it looked like he was making a mockery of the songs because of his inability to hit the right notes. I have seen that multiple times and it is unfortunate. But, he does have good nights. I was actually quite pleased with the Vancouver show and not only because that was my firs DT show in 10 years but because he actually impressed me. He sang the songs right for the most part and did not add any weird embellishments. I was particularly pleased with Solitary Shell, The Count of Tuscany, and The Spirit Carries On.

I think he needs guidance, but the critique he gets at the hands of some of the fans and others in the industry is just tearing him down. People should guide him through this time in his life, not pull him through the mud.

This is a perfect example of a balanced critique. We can acknowledge that things aren't perfect, while also acknowledging his effort, as well as being supportive instead of "tearing him down", calling him "washed up" and declaring the end of his career, or, as it was so aptly said above, not dragging him "through the mud".

Yet unfortunately the latter is mostly what I see across the fandom. It's like he's a gladiator being thrown to the lions, who then proceed to tear him to shreds. I've just had it, I guess. Anxiety35, accept my apologies. I just feel like we can do better to support him.

[nobloodyname]

What makes me chuckle is if James is having trouble singing at the right pitch, mobile phones apparently aren't an accurate record. But when he's singing at the right pitch, mobile phone recordings provide a great account of him doing so

Regarding Anxiety35, I'm pretty sure they had an extensive posting record at MP.com before it was closed down. They're not someone with no history with DT.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

What makes me chuckle is if James is having trouble singing at the right pitch, mobile phones apparently aren't an accurate record. But when he's singing at the right pitch, mobile phone recordings provide a great account of him doing so

Regarding Anxiety35, I'm pretty sure they had an extensive posting record at MP.com before it was closed down. They're not someone with no history with DT.

 

[KevShmev]

This is a perfect example of a balanced critique. We can acknowledge that things aren't perfect, while also acknowledging his effort, as well as being supportive instead of "tearing him down", calling him "washed up" and declaring the end of his career, or, as it was so aptly said above, not dragging him "through the mud".

Yet unfortunately the latter is mostly what I see across the fandom. It's like he's a gladiator being thrown to the lions, who then proceed to tear him to shreds. I've just had it, I guess. Anxiety35, accept my apologies. I just feel like we can do better to support him.

None of us can tell anyone what to do, but my friendly suggestion would be to stop reading reddit and YT comments, the latter of which have never been friendly to James.  That seems to what fires you up, and then when anyone here makes a particularly negative comment, which are pretty infrequent here at DTF, it then becomes "most of the fanbase is being mean to James," when that is anything but the case here.  It has been said 392 times, and is bares repeating again: all of us want to see James sing well and the band kick ass.  I doubt anyone here is taking any enjoyment out of seeing James struggle like he is. 

[XJDenton]

Honestly speaking, struggling is not unexpected either. The guy is 60; expecting any muscle to work as well as it did when he was 30, especially after a continuous life of use and a few injuries to boot, and given the above average level of vocal performance his early work demanded, is unrealistic. It's not a critique to say he's struggling, it's just life. All of us will eventually pass our prime.

[Architeuthis]

the sales of tickets will dictate how much of a career is left for JLB

Last night's show in Redmond Washington was packed. Outdoor venue with 5,000 capacity and it was full from front to back. That warmed my heart. The crowd stood the whole time and was very enthusiastic! The concert was amazing, all three bands! Best turnout for a DT show I've ever seen in the Pacific Northwest. 💫💪
John Myung played awesome despite his injury. He said the show must go on, as they were thinking about canceling. Myung said NO WAY, were playing! He sat in a chair the whole show since it was a head injury. Petrucci kept going over and jamming with him for support, and James did too.
I really enjoyed Animals as Leaders , and Devin Townsend rocked!  Dream Theater was beyond excellent, and James sounded great to me!  I hope this Dreamsonic thing continues, it was a lot of fun!

Btw, I take back everything I said in my previous post. I read a few posts saying they were too loud the night before in Vancouver.  NOT the case here, the sound was just right and not overbearing at all. I didn't need earplugs and no ringing today. 

[TAC]

Yeah, Dream Theater has been LOUD in the past, but the show in Boston had perfect sound.

[Architeuthis]

One thing that had me laughing! Whenever JLB was talking to the audience, I noticed John Myung sitting in his chair noodling on his bass with the volume turned off.