Mesa, AZ 2/2/2022 - Mesa Arts Center (Setlist Spoilers)

[wolfking]

I still don't see "lip synching."  As mentioned above, I see/hear him singing along with a vocal track that is way too high in the mix and him cutting off his vocal line early.

That part MIaden mentioned above is 100% lip syncing.

[bosk1]

The two of you are seeing something RJ and I don't see at all.  Don't know what to tell you.

[SeRoX]

James mouth move and singing doesn't even match. Especially the ending line "my lifeeee".

To be honest the first two dates lip syncing is quite obvious but in LA video I didn't catch. He actually singed that lines and honestly I don't know why he choose to lip sync those lines since they are not demanding to perform. But I believe he has got his reasons. I think his other performances are quite good, especially for the older records.

[Kram]

I still don't see "lip synching."  As mentioned above, I see/hear him singing along with a vocal track that is way too high in the mix and him cutting off his vocal line early.

That part MIaden mentioned above is 100% lip syncing.

I don't think it's a 100% lip sync, but it might as well be.  To me he's intentionally signing along very softly in that part letting the backing track take the lead.  It's pretty obvious to my ears.  That's the show I was at, and my buddies and I noticed it right away while they were playing it.

[bosk1]

To me he's intentionally signing along very softly in that part letting the backing track take the lead.  It's pretty obvious to my ears.  That's the show I was at, and my buddies and I noticed it right away while they were playing it.

Exactly this.

Personally, I don't like it.  I'm okay with backing tracks, but when the backing track is actually taking the lead, that's where it crosses the line for me.  I don't mind it enhancing the sound by adding a harmony low in the mix.  But this just takes away from the concert experience for me just a bit.  Understandable if some others feel the same.  But let's be honest and call it what it is, and not misstate what is going on just to fit some preconceived narrative. 

[Mladen]

I agree with you on that. I wouldn't mind it if I was able to hear him singing the line along with the prerecorded bit. But when the only thing we hear is the backing track and it hardly looks like he's actually singing along with it, it becomes slightly off putting.

Again, I will be happy to be corrected. I love James and I love the band and I try to keep my comments on the positive side.

[wolfking]

I agree with you on that. I wouldn't mind it if I was able to hear him singing the line along with the prerecorded bit. But when the only thing we hear is the backing track and it hardly looks like he's actually singing along with it, it becomes slightly off putting.

Again, I will be happy to be corrected. I love James and I love the band and I try to keep my comments on the positive side.

Plus his whole demeanour changes during that section too which doesn't help what it looks like but I'll back up what MIaden says here.

[TAC]

I don't think it's a 100% lip sync, but it might as well be.  To me he's intentionally signing along very softly in that part letting the backing track take the lead. 

What's the fucking difference?

[wolfking]

I don't think it's a 100% lip sync, but it might as well be.  To me he's intentionally signing along very softly in that part letting the backing track take the lead. 

What's the fucking difference?

I can't even hear him at all in that video truthfully.

[Mladen]

Me neither. On the other side, when you look at the chorus of 6:00 on this video, it's clear that he's singing along with the backing track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmYawJMcdtE

Singing along with the backing track =/= not singing along with the backing track.

Sorry about the negativity. I have given my two cents and will keep further comments on the positive side. There's still plenty to enjoy in the clips, and I'm sure it's still a fun live experience.

[Kram]

I don't think it's a 100% lip sync, but it might as well be.  To me he's intentionally signing along very softly in that part letting the backing track take the lead. 

What's the fucking difference?

That’s why I said it might as well been a 100% lip sync. I was at that show and it was very obvious.  The backing track was LOUD (and in tune) - sorry couldn’t resist.  I love James and hate to say anything negative. But also calling it like it is.

[wolfking]

Me neither. On the other side, when you look at the chorus of 6:00 on this video, it's clear that he's singing along with the backing track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmYawJMcdtE

Singing along with the backing track =/= not singing along with the backing track.

Sorry about the negativity. I have given my two cents and will keep further comments on the positive side. There's still plenty to enjoy in the clips, and I'm sure it's still a fun live experience.

It's hard not to be negative mate, but I still come back to what I said earlier, what's the answer, what do they do?

[Dittomist]

Yeah, these early videos have been sad to watch. Nobody in the band looks particularly happy to be there and the crowds seem strangely lethargic.
It's hard to believe that just a few years ago, James was able to sing the entire Astonishing album so beautifully night after night. In terms of future tours, the benefit of having such an enormous back catalog is that they can choose songs that James won't struggle with.

[Ben_Jamin]

JLB can still sing this stuff. The only issue is the backing tracks are high in the mix. And I agree with Bosk.

There were spots in the show where it was obvious he is singing along with a backing track harmony. Some of those are in the song and in past shows, these vocal backing tracks were low in the mix or not used at all.

[RodrigoAltaf]

What I think is worrying is the fact that James is struggling also in the mid range. On certain phrases that in theory wouldn't be challenging at all for him to sing, his voice seems to have lost a lot of power. He's compensating that by elevating the larynx, which gives his voice a weird tone.

I would say the first step is for him to recognize that something needs to change. He had vocal lessons i think around the ToT era, but maybe it's time he tried something different? Steven Tyler did that vocal lifting procedure,  and sang incredibly well in later years. I don't know what else he could do, but again: it would start with him acknowledging that something needs to change. He doesn't strike me as someone who's receptive to negative feedback.

[KevShmev]

What stunned me from seeing a few clips of the first show was how much he struggled with the "I wanted to deserve a place..." section in The Ministry of Lost Souls, which I would have thought would be a part he'd still hit easily, but it sounded like a struggle to stay on pitch and get through it with any fluidity.  And it is a bummer to witness as JLB will always be one of my favorite rock singers ever.  It just feels like the years of singing and touring have taken their toll and there is no coming back from it.

[TAC]

What stunned me from seeing a few clips of the first show was how much he struggled with the "I wanted to deserve a place..." section in The Ministry of Lost Souls, which I would have thought would be a part he'd still hit easily, but it sounded like a struggle to stay on pitch and get through it with any fluidity.  And it is a bummer to witness as JLB will always be one of my favorite rock singers ever.  It just feels like the years of singing and touring have taken their toll and there is no coming back from it.

When we talk about setlist construction, we usually think that maybe the placement of an instrumental would help James out. Frankly, I feel like he has a pretty easy show here, especially the last hour...TMOLS/AVFTTOTW/TCOT.  None of which seems like it stretches his range. I thought TMOLS would be good for him. It doesn't seem taxing on the voice, plus it has a long instrumental break.

[tuto]

Lip synching and hiding his face away from the audience so they don't notice has got to be a new low for James. Wow. So incredibly disappointing. And it's been hilarious seeing people trying to justify it or saying that he  is not lip synching when it's so blatantly obvious that he is.

[The Realm]

What stunned me from seeing a few clips of the first show was how much he struggled with the "I wanted to deserve a place..." section in The Ministry of Lost Souls, which I would have thought would be a part he'd still hit easily, but it sounded like a struggle to stay on pitch and get through it with any fluidity.  And it is a bummer to witness as JLB will always be one of my favorite rock singers ever.  It just feels like the years of singing and touring have taken their toll and there is no coming back from it.

When we talk about setlist construction, we usually think that maybe the placement of an instrumental would help James out. Frankly, I feel like he has a pretty easy show here, especially the last hour...TMOLS/AVFTTOTW/TCOT.  None of which seems like it stretches his range. I thought TMOLS would be good for him. It doesn't seem taxing on the voice, plus it has a long instrumental break.

Surely this is a big factor in the choosing of the set list - choose songs James can actually sing or get away with singing live. The I&W anniversary tour was a trainwreck vocally because it is obvious, and has been the case for 15+ years that James can't sing a number of Dream Theater songs live anymore.

[geeeemo]

From the concerts I have seen, he seems to get better as he gets further into the tour. In the d/t tour, I saw a early show in LA. Then 2nd US leg later in the year in Reno and then London. He was much better later. He seems to also be better later in the show, than earlier. In Oakland he sounded pretty good I thought, not perfect, but thats ok. The rest of the band weren't perfect either. The crowds don't seem to be as lively, also. Is everyone just lethargic after 2 years of weirdness?

[wolfking]

He doesn't strike me as someone who's receptive to negative feedback.

I thought the opposite actually.  But since he has resulted to lip syncing, maybe you're right.

[jimgolf]

I guess what I don’t understand about the backing track issue is if James is struggling to sing Bridges in the Sky to the point of having to have a lead vocal/backing track take over, why not just pick another song? On the backs of Angels/Lost Not Forgotten/Outcry/Breaking All Illusions are all easier songs to sing on that same album. Or if they wanted to explore songs on other records, Panic Attack/Pale Blue Dot/ The Looking Glass/ Along for the Ride/ Lines in the Sand are other songs that would be easier to sing. Bridges is a vocally demanding song and no one would really complain if they shelved those songs with the big notes - DT/James still rock even without the high notes.

[Kyo]

When we talk about setlist construction, we usually think that maybe the placement of an instrumental would help James out. Frankly, I feel like he has a pretty easy show here, especially the last hour...TMOLS/AVFTTOTW/TCOT.  None of which seems like it stretches his range. I thought TMOLS would be good for him. It doesn't seem taxing on the voice, plus it has a long instrumental break.

All three of those songs are mostly instrumental to start with. With the set lasting about 2 hours, I would guess that James is singing for about half of that. It's really not that much. The material they picked doesn't ask for particularly high vocals, either. With the band just a few gigs into the tour after a long break, this should be a walk in the park for him. But clearly it isn't.

People really need to come to grips with the fact that James's live problems go beyond having to sing challenging material or doing grueling tour schedules. I'm sure that this can exacerbate the problems on top of everything, but the core problems are that he's rarely accurate pitch-wise, he oversings bits that would sound better without it and his improvised melodies (especially on the parts that he oversings) are often a downgrade or simply not a good fit for the music. His worst moments are when all of this is combined - oversinging on a part where he changes the melody in an odd way and then going off pitch within that context usually ends up sounding pretty awful. And none of it has anything to do with high notes, difficult intervals, long sets or relentless touring schedules. My go-to example for this is Fatal Tragedy from the last tour, particularly the chorus:

Without love, without truth
There can be no turning back
Without faith, without hope
There can be no peace of mind

James takes "truth" and "hope" and stretches these notes all over the next line from the backing vocal track (and a nearly inaudible JP). And here we have all three problems at once: He's oversinging a part that really doesn't call for it. The note he chooses to stretch across the following line is not a great fit harmonically. And then he goes off pitch on top of that. It is totally unnecessary, it turns a previously undemanding section into a failed show-off attempt and the end result is just an unpleasant listen. On the official release this is all sanitized with autotune, but you can find fan recordings on YouTube to hear the original performance. And even with the autotune fix, the first two of the three problems persist and it just doesn't sound good. But it seems that since Portnoy left, the band hierarchy has shifted to a point where there's nobody left to flatly tell him "James, this isn't working".

[crystalstars17]

I would caution against any comparisons to the last tour at this point. What I have heard so far from the recent tour shows me that he is aware of some issues and is working on it. What I see is a return to the way he was singing prior to the Astonishing tour. No excess ornamentation, no pushing or getting off his support, no BS. Just singing it straight, with good support and placement. Whatever vocal problems he has been dealing with in recent years I believe they are being addressed.

He is indeed an intelligent singer that is open to feedback. You can see that in action. Remember that it may be a work in progress for a while, with steps in a positive direction.

The human voice is a physical instrument. It reflects everything that is going on in the body - illness, emotions, the weather, you name it. And who among us has not been affected by the last two years?! Singers have so much more to deal with, especially if their voices are lighter lyric voices by nature. I believe that James is capable of managing his instrument like the high level professional that he is. Please consider giving him another chance.

[fadetoblackdude7]

I would caution against any comparisons to the last tour at this point. What I have heard so far from the recent tour shows me that he is aware of some issues and is working on it. What I see is a return to the way he was singing prior to the Astonishing tour. No excess ornamentation, no pushing or getting off his support, no BS. Just singing it straight, with good support and placement. Whatever vocal problems he has been dealing with in recent years I believe they are being addressed.

He is indeed an intelligent singer that is open to feedback. You can see that in action. Remember that it may be a work in progress for a while, with steps in a positive direction.

The human voice is a physical instrument. It reflects everything that is going on in the body - illness, emotions, the weather, you name it. And who among us has not been affected by the last two years?! Singers have so much more to deal with, especially if their voices are lighter lyric voices by nature. I believe that James is capable of managing his instrument like the high level professional that he is. Please consider giving him another chance.

Very well said!

[UndercoverMyung]

I would caution against any comparisons to the last tour at this point. What I have heard so far from the recent tour shows me that he is aware of some issues and is working on it. What I see is a return to the way he was singing prior to the Astonishing tour. No excess ornamentation, no pushing or getting off his support, no BS. Just singing it straight, with good support and placement. Whatever vocal problems he has been dealing with in recent years I believe they are being addressed.

He is indeed an intelligent singer that is open to feedback. You can see that in action. Remember that it may be a work in progress for a while, with steps in a positive direction.

The human voice is a physical instrument. It reflects everything that is going on in the body - illness, emotions, the weather, you name it. And who among us has not been affected by the last two years?! Singers have so much more to deal with, especially if their voices are lighter lyric voices by nature. I believe that James is capable of managing his instrument like the high level professional that he is. Please consider giving him another chance.

Yes!

[Kram]

When we talk about setlist construction, we usually think that maybe the placement of an instrumental would help James out. Frankly, I feel like he has a pretty easy show here, especially the last hour...TMOLS/AVFTTOTW/TCOT.  None of which seems like it stretches his range. I thought TMOLS would be good for him. It doesn't seem taxing on the voice, plus it has a long instrumental break.

All three of those songs are mostly instrumental to start with. With the set lasting about 2 hours, I would guess that James is singing for about half of that. It's really not that much. The material they picked doesn't ask for particularly high vocals, either. With the band just a few gigs into the tour after a long break, this should be a walk in the park for him. But clearly it isn't.

People really need to come to grips with the fact that James's live problems go beyond having to sing challenging material or doing grueling tour schedules. I'm sure that this can exacerbate the problems on top of everything, but the core problems are that he's rarely accurate pitch-wise, he oversings bits that would sound better without it and his improvised melodies (especially on the parts that he oversings) are often a downgrade or simply not a good fit for the music. His worst moments are when all of this is combined - oversinging on a part where he changes the melody in an odd way and then going off pitch within that context usually ends up sounding pretty awful. And none of it has anything to do with high notes, difficult intervals, long sets or relentless touring schedules. My go-to example for this is Fatal Tragedy from the last tour, particularly the chorus:

Without love, without truth
There can be no turning back
Without faith, without hope
There can be no peace of mind

James takes "truth" and "hope" and stretches these notes all over the next line from the backing vocal track (and a nearly inaudible JP). And here we have all three problems at once: He's oversinging a part that really doesn't call for it. The note he chooses to stretch across the following line is not a great fit harmonically. And then he goes off pitch on top of that. It is totally unnecessary, it turns a previously undemanding section into a failed show-off attempt and the end result is just an unpleasant listen. On the official release this is all sanitized with autotune, but you can find fan recordings on YouTube to hear the original performance. And even with the autotune fix, the first two of the three problems persist and it just doesn't sound good. But it seems that since Portnoy left, the band hierarchy has shifted to a point where there's nobody left to flatly tell him "James, this isn't working".

Great post, I agree with you 100%.  He has always had problems with pitch live - and when he improvises the melody, he usually is pretty badly out of tune (to the point it pains me to listen).  I often think maybe he's having a hard time hearing himself with the in ear monitors or something, not sure.  Either way, he'd be better served not improvising and just sing the melody straight.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I would caution against any comparisons to the last tour at this point. What I have heard so far from the recent tour shows me that he is aware of some issues and is working on it. What I see is a return to the way he was singing prior to the Astonishing tour. No excess ornamentation, no pushing or getting off his support, no BS. Just singing it straight, with good support and placement. Whatever vocal problems he has been dealing with in recent years I believe they are being addressed.

He is indeed an intelligent singer that is open to feedback. You can see that in action. Remember that it may be a work in progress for a while, with steps in a positive direction.

The human voice is a physical instrument. It reflects everything that is going on in the body - illness, emotions, the weather, you name it. And who among us has not been affected by the last two years?! Singers have so much more to deal with, especially if their voices are lighter lyric voices by nature. I believe that James is capable of managing his instrument like the high level professional that he is. Please consider giving him another chance.

Hi James! Thank you for posting here!

[Kram]

I would caution against any comparisons to the last tour at this point. What I have heard so far from the recent tour shows me that he is aware of some issues and is working on it. What I see is a return to the way he was singing prior to the Astonishing tour. No excess ornamentation, no pushing or getting off his support, no BS. Just singing it straight, with good support and placement. Whatever vocal problems he has been dealing with in recent years I believe they are being addressed.

He is indeed an intelligent singer that is open to feedback. You can see that in action. Remember that it may be a work in progress for a while, with steps in a positive direction.

The human voice is a physical instrument. It reflects everything that is going on in the body - illness, emotions, the weather, you name it. And who among us has not been affected by the last two years?! Singers have so much more to deal with, especially if their voices are lighter lyric voices by nature. I believe that James is capable of managing his instrument like the high level professional that he is. Please consider giving him another chance.

Hi James! Thank you for posting here!

LOL was thinking the same thing..

[crystalstars17]

Hi James! Thank you for posting here!

Lol! I'm definitely not him. But he is my favorite singer and I am someone with 10+ years of vocal training who knows what she's hearing. I've been a fan long enough to have seen some concerning ups and downs and I care a great deal about the wellbeing of his voice. I love many tenor voices but his is honestly my gold standard by which all others are measured.

As far as I can tell, he's headed in a healthier direction technique-wise and I hope I am right. I don't expect everyone to agree with me of course but I also think many here are too quick to be mean and judgemental toward him when they likely don't know voices themselves. It's like they're looking for reasons to hate on him.

IDGI, you are his fans. It's one thing to have concern for when things are not 100% but gratuitous judging and hating on him is another thing entirely. Honestly I have wanted to be more active here for a long time but this is the main reason I am not. I do plan to post an honest review after seeing them on 3/5.

I feel as if there isn't enough discussion here of the vocal perspective from the point of view of those who know vocal technique. I see a lot of discussion about instrumental techniques and sound production and I honestly can't keep up with those topics as much as I love the music as it's not my area, but more discussion of the vocals from a similarly knowledgeable standpoint would be a good thing. Of course as long as such posts would be welcome.

[nikatapi]

I would caution against any comparisons to the last tour at this point. What I have heard so far from the recent tour shows me that he is aware of some issues and is working on it. What I see is a return to the way he was singing prior to the Astonishing tour. No excess ornamentation, no pushing or getting off his support, no BS. Just singing it straight, with good support and placement. Whatever vocal problems he has been dealing with in recent years I believe they are being addressed.

He is indeed an intelligent singer that is open to feedback. You can see that in action. Remember that it may be a work in progress for a while, with steps in a positive direction.

The human voice is a physical instrument. It reflects everything that is going on in the body - illness, emotions, the weather, you name it. And who among us has not been affected by the last two years?! Singers have so much more to deal with, especially if their voices are lighter lyric voices by nature. I believe that James is capable of managing his instrument like the high level professional that he is. Please consider giving him another chance.

I think we can all agree that we love James as a vocalist, and we're actually disappointed by the extensive use of backing tracks, especially on the main vocal line. It feels like cheating and trying to deceive the audience, there's no way around it.

Personally i've been defending James a lot, but i think ever since DT12 he's been on a steady decline vocally on the tours, and to a certain extent i hear it in the albums as well, with obvious use of pitch correction and lots of effects.

I understand he's getting older and i actually respect him a lot for doing tours that are brutally demanding of him, with a certain degree of consistency.

But, as a fan and someone who admired James, i can't stand behind obvious playback on certain parts of the songs, like on Bridges In The Sky as witnessed in different nights and in multiple videos. That to me is not genuine and is not the James (and Dream Theater) i've known and loved for so many years.

[Architeuthis]

Come on guys, don't be so hard on James. He is performing on a very high level. Still way better than most other singers in a live setting. He freakin killed it in Seattle last night!
That's why DT plays to a click, so they can add production value. He may have used a vocal octiviser effect here and there but so what!  He still sang his heart out.
Rush did the same thing, there were vocal parts dubbed in parts of their live shows. Geddy Lee still delivered though.

[DreamerTV]

I don't like what I'm hearing too (well, seeing from YT videos), but the guy hasn't sing in a concert setting for two years. And he's 58.
Have you ever seen a pro player of any sport coming back to an official game after a long break? C'mon, give him time to get use to it again.

[Skeever]

I won't link to an unauthorized recording, but I saw another link of the same incident from a much closer angle that (I believe) sheds a bit of light.

Some of what I'll consider "hard facts":

-JLB has a backing track on the main vocal parts of some songs - that much is obvious from what I've seen so far, having now multiple data points from multiple songs on multiple nights.
-James is always singing, whether there is a backing track or not. And you can often hear both James and the supporting track in the background if you listen closely
-In the alleged "lip sync" performance, from different angles you can see James trying to communicate to the mixing board guy that he needs more volume

OK, now this part is more subjective and the matter of my interpretation, based on other angles of the incident I saw:

- Despite James' hand cues, the mixing guy does not seem to make any adjustments; either that or James' mic has failed
- Seconds after making the hand gestures, James seems to realize that his mic is not live
- He turns away from the audience, in my mind, he is trying to avoid what it will look like if he's seen belting the song with no "live vocal" audible in the mix while a backing track plays
- Conclusion: James is not "lip syncing", at least not intentionally, but it seems that way because the live mix has failed and the backing track is still going, maybe a miscommunication, maybe a technical error, who knows.  Either way, I don't think it's intentional to have James be lower than the backing vocal. I think perhaps the levels of the vocals in relations to one another are what I would consider to be part of the live show that has not been ironed out and I'd be shocked if we're seeing this still after a few more dates.

My take? I'd be fine with no backing vocal. But that's just me. I have reasonable expectations for these guys, especially a singer of this caliber, and I can hang with the idea that a performance might not be perfect. I find it a bit unfortunate that the band have been using canned backing vocals for awhile now, but I guess someone who knows more than I do has already determined that fans like me are lesser in number than those who show up expecting perfection. 

[UndercoverMyung]

My take? I'd be fine with no backing vocal. But that's just me. I have reasonable expectations for these guys, especially a singer of this caliber, and I can hang with the idea that a performance might not be perfect.

Agreed.