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Are there any major fan favorites that you think are good, but not great?

Started by Mladen, August 09, 2019, 06:27:44 AM

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Volante99

Quote from: SystematicThought on August 12, 2019, 07:56:10 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on August 12, 2019, 07:00:43 PM
I'll throw another one out there;

Viper King - Yiiikes. I'll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.
I just don't know why he decided to come out of the gate with the high pitched vocals. As soon as I heard that, I lost all interest in the song.

I suppose I shouldn't put all the blame on LaBrie either. The fact that they used the same D/T production sound, which works well enough on the rest of the album, sounds VERY off on Viper King. There's a good song in there somewhere and some amazing playing by Rudess and Petrucci but the execution is just all wrong in my opinion. I can see it being a amusing to some people but fans embracing it as one of their best songs of the Mangini era is baffling to me.

The Walrus

Quote from: SystematicThought on August 12, 2019, 07:56:10 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on August 12, 2019, 07:00:43 PM
I'll throw another one out there;

Viper King - Yiiikes. I'll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.
I just don't know why he decided to come out of the gate with the high pitched vocals. As soon as I heard that, I lost all interest in the song.

He sounds absolutely horrible. I truly can't believe they included it.

Chino


cramx3


gzarruk

The Octavarium album as a whole. I just don't like the weird sound effects that connect the tracks, and some of the songs feel underwhelming to me (TALW, IWBY and NE). The track order doesn't help too much, either. Some fans rank this album in their top 5 DT albums, and I just don't see why. At least we got TW and the title track, which are two of my favorites from the catalog.

Evai

Listen to the Spotify version and you'll have no 'weird sound effects'

Northern Lion

Octavarium the song   :facepalm:, I like the rest of the album quite a bit and I appreciate why this is a fan favorite, but I skip it most of the time.

Breaking All Illusions, I like this song and I don't think I ever skip it, but I don't like it as much as I believe the average fan does based on what I've read here and elsewhere over the years.

jammindude

My first thought was Home.

The second half of the song is amazing. The first half kinda just plods along. It's ok I guess...but I don't get why it's often so revered. I wouldn't even put it in the top 5 from that album.

geeeemo

Quote from: Northern Lion on August 13, 2019, 08:05:12 AM
Octavarium the song   :facepalm:, I like the rest of the album quite a bit and I appreciate why this is a fan favorite, but I skip it most of the time.

Breaking All Illusions, I like this song and I don't think I ever skip it, but I don't like it as much as I believe the average fan does based on what I've read here and elsewhere over the years.

:omg:     with love of course :)

pg1067

Quote from: Volante99 on August 12, 2019, 07:00:43 PM
I'll throw another one out there;

Viper King - Yiiikes. I'll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.

I'm not sure Viper King can reasonably be called a "major fan favorite."

Setlist Scotty

Quote from: jammindude on August 13, 2019, 09:33:12 AM
My first thought was Home.

The second half of the song is amazing. The first half kinda just plods along. It's ok I guess...but I don't get why it's often so revered. I wouldn't even put it in the top 5 from that album.
Not surprised you'd pick that song - I remember previous comments you've made about it. As to why it's so revered, I think there's at least a few things: that opening heavy guitar riff, the Tool-ish bass line, the hooky catchy chorus and the instrumental section at the end of the song. Maybe the call backs to Metropolis also do it for some.
Quote from: BlobVanDam on November 13, 2015, 07:37:14 PMAs a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.
Quote from: TAC on July 10, 2024, 08:26:41 AMPOW is awesome! :P

Shalev Amir

I have two major offenders, Disappear and Sacrificed Sons. But only Disappear fits the post really, I don't even think it's not very good. But it makes me feel sick and that's a problem. Sacrificed Sons I actually don't like, one of my least favorites not only from 8vm. I have no idea why people think it's so great. Also Bridges doesn't do it for me any more (although, I haven't heard it in some time now)

Volante99

Quote from: pg1067 on August 13, 2019, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Volante99 on August 12, 2019, 07:00:43 PM
I'll throw another one out there;

Viper King - Yiiikes. I'll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.

I'm not sure Viper King can reasonably be called a "major fan favorite."

Sure but it's not exactly obscure either. It garnered almost universe praise when the album first came out and received 11 votes as being a favorite among the Mangini era which puts it at the top half of the D/T album.

Dublagent66

I dunno.  When it comes to DT songs, the distance between good and great isn't a very long trip and there are a lot in between.  Most of the fan favorites I would consider good to great with only a few exceptions.

bosk1

Well, most of this thread is basically "Let me pick a song I don't like and then arbitrarily call it a fan favorite so I can bash on it." 

Loggins

Quote from: Dublagent66 on August 13, 2019, 01:39:54 PM
I dunno.  When it comes to DT songs, the distance between good and great isn't a very long trip and there are a lot in between.  Most of the fan favorites I would consider good to great with only a few exceptions.

This is a good point. I can put everything DT on shuffle and enjoy all of it. There are only a few that I would skip. Most of the gap between good and great is just preference or mood.

I think Untethered Angel falls into a 'eh' for me. I agree with the comment on Home too. It has great stuff but feels unfinished.

pg1067

Quote from: Volante99 on August 13, 2019, 01:02:11 PM
Quote from: pg1067 on August 13, 2019, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Volante99 on August 12, 2019, 07:00:43 PM
I'll throw another one out there;

Viper King - Yiiikes. I'll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.

I'm not sure Viper King can reasonably be called a "major fan favorite."

Sure but it's not exactly obscure either. It garnered almost universe praise when the album first came out and received 11 votes as being a favorite among the Mangini era which puts it at the top half of the D/T album.

Ummm...are there any DT songs that ARE obscure to the denizens of DTF?  In any event, I don't think "not exactly obscure" and "major fan favorite" aren't the same thing.


Quote from: bosk1 on August 13, 2019, 01:51:08 PM
Well, most of this thread is basically "Let me pick a song I don't like and then arbitrarily call it a fan favorite so I can bash on it." 

I don't know about that, but some folks sure did miss the point.


Quote from: Setlist Scotty on August 13, 2019, 12:29:17 PM
As to why it's so revered, I think there's at least a few things: that opening heavy guitar riff, the Tool-ish bass line, the hooky catchy chorus and the instrumental section at the end of the song. Maybe the call backs to Metropolis also do it for some.

Except for the "Tool-ish bass line" (which I wouldn't even know what that meant but for the commentary track on LSFNY), I agree with all of this, but there's a lot more to it.  It's a critical piece in the overall SFAM story, and there simply isn't any part of the song that I find unappealing.  Great riffs.  Great melodies.  Great playing.

geeeemo


Except for the "Tool-ish bass line" (which I wouldn't even know what that meant but for the commentary track on LSFNY), I agree with all of this, but there's a lot more to it.  It's a critical piece in the overall SFAM story, and there simply isn't any part of the song that I find unappealing.  Great riffs.  Great melodies.  Great playing.

And when I saw it performed in LA,it was the best audience groove with a song I have experienced. So loud, perfectly played, the audience rolling like a wave perfectly in sync with the  rhythm.   :metal  (not the same in Milwaukee, but still fabulous)

gzarruk

Quote from: pg1067 on August 13, 2019, 02:17:20 PM
Except for the "Tool-ish bass line" (which I wouldn't even know what that meant but for the commentary track on LSFNY), I agree with all of this, but there's a lot more to it.  It's a critical piece in the overall SFAM story, and there simply isn't any part of the song that I find unappealing.  Great riffs.  Great melodies.  Great playing.

The moaning part :lol

The Walrus

Huh. I love the first half of Home, but as soon as the instrumental razzle dazzle starts I tap out.

Northern Lion

Quote from: gzarruk on August 13, 2019, 02:47:55 PM
The moaning part :lol

I love the song, but I fear if I ever play it with my kids around I'll have to teach them sex ed right after and I'm just not willing to do that yet  ;D.

KevShmev

Quote from: bosk1 on August 13, 2019, 01:51:08 PM
Well, most of this thread is basically "Let me pick a song I don't like and then arbitrarily call it a fan favorite so I can bash on it."

LOL, pretty much.

For example, even though I like it a lot, I am not sure on what planet Viper King would be considered a "major fan favorite."

Dublagent66

Quote from: Northern Lion on August 13, 2019, 03:19:31 PM
Quote from: gzarruk on August 13, 2019, 02:47:55 PM
The moaning part :lol

I love the song, but I fear if I ever play it with my kids around I'll have to teach them sex ed right after and I'm just not willing to do that yet  ;D.

:lol  That's funny.  Can't say I blame you.


Quote from: Kattelox on August 13, 2019, 02:51:40 PM
Huh. I love the first half of Home, but as soon as the instrumental razzle dazzle starts I tap out.

:lol  That's some of the best instrumental work they've ever done.  JR followed by JP and then the 3 way unison with JM at the end.  :hefdaddy


Quote from: bosk1 on August 13, 2019, 01:51:08 PM
Well, most of this thread is basically "Let me pick a song I don't like and then arbitrarily call it a fan favorite so I can bash on it." 

It certainly seems that way.  :\

Volante99

Quote from: pg1067 on August 13, 2019, 02:17:20 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on August 13, 2019, 01:02:11 PM
Quote from: pg1067 on August 13, 2019, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Volante99 on August 12, 2019, 07:00:43 PM
I'll throw another one out there;

Viper King - Yiiikes. I'll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.

I'm not sure Viper King can reasonably be called a "major fan favorite."

Sure but it's not exactly obscure either. It garnered almost universe praise when the album first came out and received 11 votes as being a favorite among the Mangini era which puts it at the top half of the D/T album.

Ummm...are there any DT songs that ARE obscure to the denizens of DTF?  In any event, I don't think "not exactly obscure" and "major fan favorite" aren't the same thing.


Not to beat a dead horse but your picks of The Mirror and In the Presence of Enemies aren't exactly major fan favorites either. I honestly don't think I've ever read anything positive about the Mirror on this forum in years. Viper King, on the other hand, is a recent song that's garnered a ton of praise and viewed in a positive light by the majority of fans on an album that fans are still talking about. If you want to limit the discussion to the 10-12 songs that would actually qualify as "major fan favorite" that's fine, but don't act like you weren't loosey goosey with your picks either.  :lol

bosk1

Where exactly has Viper King "garnered a ton of praise?"  ???  I've never seen that.

Volante99

Quote from: bosk1 on August 13, 2019, 04:03:16 PM
Where exactly has Viper King "garnered a ton of praise?"  ???  I've never seen that.

Literally the top two comments on the last page on the D/T thread are about how good Viper King is. It's probably more noticeable to people who passionately dislike the song but nearly EVERYONE was goo goo over that song. Even in this thread 3-4 people have come to its defense. If that's not a fan favorite I don't know what is. :rollin

KevShmev

Quote from: Volante99 on August 13, 2019, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: bosk1 on August 13, 2019, 04:03:16 PM
Where exactly has Viper King "garnered a ton of praise?"  ???  I've never seen that.

Literally the top two comments on the last page on the D/T thread are about how good Viper King is. It's probably more noticeable to people who passionately dislike the song but nearly EVERYONE was goo goo over that song. Even in this thread 3-4 people have come to its defense. If that's not a fan favorite I don't know what is. :rollin

I think it's clear that you don't what a fan favorite is.

Viper King is from the new album, so of course it is getting talked about a lot.  Duh.

Volante99

Quote from: KevShmev on August 13, 2019, 04:10:42 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on August 13, 2019, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: bosk1 on August 13, 2019, 04:03:16 PM
Where exactly has Viper King "garnered a ton of praise?"  ???  I've never seen that.

Literally the top two comments on the last page on the D/T thread are about how good Viper King is. It's probably more noticeable to people who passionately dislike the song but nearly EVERYONE was goo goo over that song. Even in this thread 3-4 people have come to its defense. If that's not a fan favorite I don't know what is. :rollin

I think it's clear that you don't what a fan favorite is.

Viper King is from the new album, so of course it is getting talked about a lot.  Duh.

I would say the entire album is a fan favorite and I singled that song out along with Pale Blue Dot. The fact that it's current makes it all the more relevant, unlike say Our New World, Sacrificed Sons, Disappear etc etc.

bosk1

Quote from: Volante99 on August 13, 2019, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: bosk1 on August 13, 2019, 04:03:16 PM
Where exactly has Viper King "garnered a ton of praise?"  ???  I've never seen that.

Literally the top two comments on the last page on the D/T thread are about how good Viper King is. It's probably more noticeable to people who passionately dislike the song but nearly EVERYONE was goo goo over that song. Even in this thread 3-4 people have come to its defense. If that's not a fan favorite I don't know what is. :rollin

2 comments in one thread and 3-4 comments in another does not come anywhere close to making it a "major fan favorite."  I don't really understand where you are coming from.  Sorry, I just don't.  As Kev said, newer songs often get a more positive reaction than they may otherwise "deserve" (for lack of a better terms).  But Viper King has not by any stretch garnered the type of widespread praise that would place it in "major fan favorite" territory.

The Walrus

It's okay guys just talk about I&W and Awake and SFAM and SDOIT again and we'll have covered all the fan favorites :P

Volante99

Quote from: bosk1 on August 13, 2019, 04:18:02 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on August 13, 2019, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: bosk1 on August 13, 2019, 04:03:16 PM
Where exactly has Viper King "garnered a ton of praise?"  ???  I've never seen that.

Literally the top two comments on the last page on the D/T thread are about how good Viper King is. It's probably more noticeable to people who passionately dislike the song but nearly EVERYONE was goo goo over that song. Even in this thread 3-4 people have come to its defense. If that's not a fan favorite I don't know what is. :rollin

2 comments in one thread and 3-4 comments in another does not come anywhere close to making it a "major fan favorite."  I don't really understand where you are coming from.  Sorry, I just don't.  As Kev said, newer songs often get a more positive reaction than they may otherwise "deserve" (for lack of a better terms).  But Viper King has not by any stretch garnered the type of widespread praise that would place it in "major fan favorite" territory.

No but near universal praise in the D/T thread is indicative of pattern which shows it has a certain level of popularity amongst the fans. But that's neither here nor there, 80% of the of the songs chosen here aren't "major fan favorites" but Viper King gets singled out BECAUSE it has many fans, including yourself. 

pg1067

Quote from: Volante99 on August 13, 2019, 03:57:33 PM
Quote from: pg1067 on August 13, 2019, 02:17:20 PM
Quote from: Volante99 on August 13, 2019, 01:02:11 PM
Quote from: pg1067 on August 13, 2019, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Volante99 on August 12, 2019, 07:00:43 PM
I'll throw another one out there;

Viper King - Yiiikes. I'll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.

I'm not sure Viper King can reasonably be called a "major fan favorite."

Sure but it's not exactly obscure either. It garnered almost universe praise when the album first came out and received 11 votes as being a favorite among the Mangini era which puts it at the top half of the D/T album.

Ummm...are there any DT songs that ARE obscure to the denizens of DTF?  In any event, I don't think "not exactly obscure" and "major fan favorite" aren't the same thing.


Not to beat a dead horse but your picks of The Mirror and In the Presence of Enemies aren't exactly major fan favorites either. I honestly don't think I've ever read anything positive about the Mirror on this forum in years. Viper King, on the other hand, is a recent song that's garnered a ton of praise and viewed in a positive light by the majority of fans on an album that fans are still talking about. If you want to limit the discussion to the 10-12 songs that would actually qualify as "major fan favorite" that's fine, but don't act like you weren't loosey goosey with your picks either.  :lol

Not exactly scientific, but in the current Dream Theater "League" (in the polls/survivors section), The Mirror is 17-4-1, and ITPOE is 19-3.  I seem to be one of the very few who doesn't like those songs.  By contrast, Viper King is 8-14, and I have no idea where you've seen it "garner[] a ton of praise" (unless your definition of "a ton" is a few random comments here and there).

Anyway, point made, and we can agree to disagree.

Mladen

Quote from: bosk1 on August 13, 2019, 01:51:08 PM
Well, most of this thread is basically "Let me pick a song I don't like and then arbitrarily call it a fan favorite so I can bash on it."
Which was certainly not my intention. I thought it would be obvious what "major fan favorites" are.  :lol

MirrorMask

Quote from: Mladen on August 14, 2019, 01:47:24 AM
Quote from: bosk1 on August 13, 2019, 01:51:08 PM
Well, most of this thread is basically "Let me pick a song I don't like and then arbitrarily call it a fan favorite so I can bash on it."
Which was certainly not my intention. I thought it would be obvious what "major fan favorites" are.  :lol

Do a reverse poll, with the option to pick your LEAST favorite.

MoraWintersoul

I hope this passes the true fan fave filter: Bridges In The Sky and Illumination Theory are good, not great.