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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Mladen on August 09, 2019, 07:27:44 AM
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This probably occurs with every band for me. Are there any Dream Theater songs that majority of fans absolutely adore and rank very high, but you just "like" them? I'm picking the following tracks:
Lines in the sand
Six degrees of inner turbulence
Endless sacrifice
In the name of God
At wit's end
How about you?
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Lines in the Sand is "absolutely adored" by a "majority of fans"? If it is, then I definitely agree with you.
The first thing that came to my mind is Pull me Under. Also Under a Glass Moon.
Also ITPOE and The Mirror, but I don't really even "like" those songs and actively dislike The Mirror.
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Pretty much anything on SFAM. Good album, not 'great' imo. Spirit Carries On specifically...
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SDOIT, has some great tracks, but the song as a whole really isn't that great.
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Barstool Warrior - It is one of the most liked songs (if not the most) from the new album. Even though it has grown on me a little, I still think is not that great of a song.
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Pretty much anything on SFAM. Good album, not 'great' imo. Spirit Carries On specifically...
I agree with you on Spirit and half of the album. The other half is excellent. As a whole though, yeah, I guess I would consider the album "good" not "great"
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The entire Octavarium album
It's bottom tier for me, for sure.
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Pretty much anything on SFAM. Good album, not 'great' imo. Spirit Carries On specifically...
I agree with you on Spirit and half of the album. The other half is excellent. As a whole though, yeah, I guess I would consider the album "good" not "great"
Same here.
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The entire D/T - nothing really offensively bad but it’s all just kinda meh to me.
Pale Blue Dot, specifically. Listened to this song numerous times including live and I’m still not exactly sure what it sounds like. Just completely devoid of any sort of hook or anything memorable.
Hollow Years- SUPER cheesy ballad only partially redeemed live by the great Petrucci solo
Along for the Ride- not necessarily a fan favorite but, again, cheesy to the max. And not a good cheese. Moldy, stinky, kraft single that’s been sitting in a fridge for 2 years kind of cheese.
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Spirit Carries On
Not sure whether I would include this song or not - hard to say. But I certainly am tired of hearing it live. Same with AIA and PMU.
Barstool Warrior - It is one of the most liked songs (if not the most) from the new album. Even though it has grown on me a little, I still think is not that great of a song.
Definitely this! Good song, but I prefer more than half the other songs on d/t over this one.
Also Our New World - don't get the adoring praise for this song. And Metropolis - good song, but for me, not great.
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Pale Blue Dot, specifically. Listened to this song numerous times including live and I’m still not exactly sure what it sounds like. Just completely devoid of any sort of hook or anything memorable.
Agreed. I can definitely see why BW and AWE have become modern DT "classics" so to speak, but PBD just doesn't do it for me.
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Barstool Warrior - It is one of the most liked songs (if not the most) from the new album. Even though it has grown on me a little, I still think is not that great of a song.
This one for me too, along with S2N on the latest album. Not sure if they're major fan favourites yet, but either way, I don't like them as much as a lot of the other tracks on the album. I agree with Scotty about Our New World too - there are lots of things I like about The Astonishing, but ONW isn't one of them. I'm also with those who mention 6DOIT, for some reason I've never fallen in love with the song, or the album itself.
Looking at the current standings of the DT league, not much else sticks out that much, except maybe Erotomania with a 19-2 record so far. Again, not sure if it's a major fan favourite, but I prefer most of the bands other instrumentals.
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I might now put The Glass Prison in this category. I loved it like crazy at first and considered it easily the best song from 6DOIT, but now it is one of my least-listened-to tracks from the entire album. I still like it quite a bit, but not sure I love it any more. At one point, it was a top 20 DT song in my eyes, but now would likely be merely top 50 (which still makes it very good).
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I might now put The Glass Prison in this category. I loved it like crazy at first and considered it easily the best song from 6DOIT, but now it is one of my least-listened-to tracks from the entire album. I still like it quite a bit, but not sure I love it any more. At one point, it was a top 20 DT song in my eyes, but now would likely be merely top 50 (which still makes it very good).
Definitely TGP. The whole song is pretty cool up until the "Run fast from the wreckage of the past" part which goes on FOREVERRRRRRRR. If that part was edited or just removed, I think TGP would be a much better track. Unfortunately, the lyrics probably dictated the length and extending music to accommodate excess lyrics is never a good idea.
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Unfortunately, the lyrics probably dictated the length and extending music to accommodate excess lyrics is never a good idea.
Doubtful - the music is always written first and the lyrics come later. Of course, there could've been some editing done later (which I think was the case for a measure or two in TDS, and I know a 20 second drum solo at the end of TGP was removed), but I don't think that was probably the case here.
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Unfortunately, the lyrics probably dictated the length and extending music to accommodate excess lyrics is never a good idea.
Doubtful - the music is always written first and the lyrics come later. Of course, there could've been some editing done later (which I think was the case for a measure or two in TDS, and I know a 20 second drum solo at the end of TGP was removed), but I don't think that was probably the case here.
Of course they write the music first, but in order to dedicate adequate time to each Step of the 12-Steps, I'm sure allowances had to be made to accommodate more lyrics otherwise the concept would not seem fully realized. Unfortunately it's a problem that plagues every 12-Step Song, they're all overly repetitive and drawn out.
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Man I love that 'run fast from the wreckage of the past' part. It's got groove. Shit slaps.
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Trial of Tears. Nothing wrong with the song, but I don't dig it as much as some others.
Learning to Live - Beautiful song, but I prefer Scarred.
Dance of Eternity - I'm sure it is musically impressive, and I appreciate it more now than I used to, but not a favorite.
Panic Attack - Don't care for this tune.
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The Count of Tuscany...but I don't know if that's a fan favorite.
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The Glass Prison. It’s good but bloated.
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Just judging by its reception on this forum, I’d agree with Our New World. The more time goes on, the more positive I am about The Astonishing in general, but I still don’t see Our New World as the sort of smash-hit, anthemic single that-would-be-on-the-radio-in-a-better-time. It’s a song with a role to play on the album and in the story, and it does so well, but I don’t know that I would rank it above the middle of the album.
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Just judging by its reception on this forum, I’d agree with Our New World. The more time goes on, the more positive I am about The Astonishing in general, but I still don’t see Our New World as the sort of smash-hit, anthemic single that-would-be-on-the-radio-in-a-better-time. It’s a song with a role to play on the album and in the story, and it does so well, but I don’t know that I would rank it above the middle of the album.
Since day 1 I've always considered Our New World an average, repetitive song and Astonishing an awesome and heartfelt climax to the album.
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Octavarium
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Since day 1 I've always considered Our New World an average, repetitive song and Astonishing an awesome and heartfelt climax to the album.
I agree with this and have always been confused that DTF consensus has seemed to be the opposite.
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TSCo, 8V and PMU. PMU was life changing for me but JLB
struggles with it greatly nowadays and that detracts from the
songs impact.
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Since day 1 I've always considered Our New World an average, repetitive song and Astonishing an awesome and heartfelt climax to the album.
I agree with this and have always been confused that DTF consensus has seemed to be the opposite.
Part of the reason I like ONW so much is that the riff is fun, probably the only one like it since About To Crash. It's just got this looser, catchy rock vibe that Dream Theater honestly doesn't do that often. It's refreshing to hear to me, but I get why some don't like it
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Since day 1 I've always considered Our New World an average, repetitive song and Astonishing an awesome and heartfelt climax to the album.
I agree with this and have always been confused that DTF consensus has seemed to be the opposite.
Part of the reason I like ONW so much is that the riff is fun, probably the only one like it since About To Crash. It's just got this looser, catchy rock vibe that Dream Theater honestly doesn't do that often. It's refreshing to hear to me, but I get why some don't like it
Our New World is great, and I dislike the Astonishing as a whole. I think the intro is the best rock guitar riff Petrucci has created since Root of All Evil.
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Pull me under!
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The entire D/T album (apart from PBD and Out Of Reach) and quite a few other albums (most notably Met2 and I/W, you know why I think so)
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Erotomania - just not it at all
The Dance of Eternity - it's ok, but it great for me.
The Gift of Music and Our New World.
I really like The Astonishing and both those songs are important for the story and good songs, but I just dont understand them being more popular than other songs on the record. I even saw ONW with Lzzy and it wasnt better for me.
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Man I love that 'run fast from the wreckage of the past' part. It's got groove. Shit slaps.
I love pretty much the whole thing (with the exception of maybe the last :30-:45 of the instrumental section toward the end of the song where it starts to feel overly repetitive).
I don't really get the inclusion of Our New World. I wouldn't really call it a "fan favorite" at all, and don't remember it getting a ton of praise. And especially now that there is a newer album, it seems all but forgotten. That said, I've always loved it and felt like, if anything, it should have gotten MORE praise than it did.
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I didn't quit get the love for ONW on release, I loved all of TA but I thought that song got a lot of love that I didn't get... until I did. It's a solid song and really fun end of set song. I think maybe I enjoy it more now is because that's the song that got everyone out of their seat live. What a great moment to finally stand, at the end of their set.
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Awake
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I’ll throw another one out there;
Viper King - Yiiikes. I’ll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.
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I’ll throw another one out there;
Viper King - Yiiikes. I’ll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.
I just don’t know why he decided to come out of the gate with the high pitched vocals. As soon as I heard that, I lost all interest in the song.
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I’ll throw another one out there;
Viper King - Yiiikes. I’ll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.
I just don’t know why he decided to come out of the gate with the high pitched vocals. As soon as I heard that, I lost all interest in the song.
I suppose I shouldn’t put all the blame on LaBrie either. The fact that they used the same D/T production sound, which works well enough on the rest of the album, sounds VERY off on Viper King. There’s a good song in there somewhere and some amazing playing by Rudess and Petrucci but the execution is just all wrong in my opinion. I can see it being a amusing to some people but fans embracing it as one of their best songs of the Mangini era is baffling to me.
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I’ll throw another one out there;
Viper King - Yiiikes. I’ll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.
I just don’t know why he decided to come out of the gate with the high pitched vocals. As soon as I heard that, I lost all interest in the song.
He sounds absolutely horrible. I truly can't believe they included it.
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I think Viper King is :metal :metal
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I think Viper King is :metal :metal
yup :metal :metal
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The Octavarium album as a whole. I just don't like the weird sound effects that connect the tracks, and some of the songs feel underwhelming to me (TALW, IWBY and NE). The track order doesn't help too much, either. Some fans rank this album in their top 5 DT albums, and I just don't see why. At least we got TW and the title track, which are two of my favorites from the catalog.
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Listen to the Spotify version and you'll have no 'weird sound effects'
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Octavarium the song :facepalm:, I like the rest of the album quite a bit and I appreciate why this is a fan favorite, but I skip it most of the time.
Breaking All Illusions, I like this song and I don't think I ever skip it, but I don't like it as much as I believe the average fan does based on what I've read here and elsewhere over the years.
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My first thought was Home.
The second half of the song is amazing. The first half kinda just plods along. It’s ok I guess...but I don’t get why it’s often so revered. I wouldn’t even put it in the top 5 from that album.
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Octavarium the song :facepalm:, I like the rest of the album quite a bit and I appreciate why this is a fan favorite, but I skip it most of the time.
Breaking All Illusions, I like this song and I don't think I ever skip it, but I don't like it as much as I believe the average fan does based on what I've read here and elsewhere over the years.
:omg: with love of course :)
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I’ll throw another one out there;
Viper King - Yiiikes. I’ll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.
I'm not sure Viper King can reasonably be called a "major fan favorite."
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My first thought was Home.
The second half of the song is amazing. The first half kinda just plods along. It’s ok I guess...but I don’t get why it’s often so revered. I wouldn’t even put it in the top 5 from that album.
Not surprised you'd pick that song - I remember previous comments you've made about it. As to why it's so revered, I think there's at least a few things: that opening heavy guitar riff, the Tool-ish bass line, the hooky catchy chorus and the instrumental section at the end of the song. Maybe the call backs to Metropolis also do it for some.
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I have two major offenders, Disappear and Sacrificed Sons. But only Disappear fits the post really, I don't even think it's not very good. But it makes me feel sick and that's a problem. Sacrificed Sons I actually don't like, one of my least favorites not only from 8vm. I have no idea why people think it's so great. Also Bridges doesn't do it for me any more (although, I haven't heard it in some time now)
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I’ll throw another one out there;
Viper King - Yiiikes. I’ll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.
I'm not sure Viper King can reasonably be called a "major fan favorite."
Sure but it’s not exactly obscure either. It garnered almost universe praise when the album first came out and received 11 votes as being a favorite among the Mangini era which puts it at the top half of the D/T album.
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I dunno. When it comes to DT songs, the distance between good and great isn't a very long trip and there are a lot in between. Most of the fan favorites I would consider good to great with only a few exceptions.
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Well, most of this thread is basically "Let me pick a song I don't like and then arbitrarily call it a fan favorite so I can bash on it."
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I dunno. When it comes to DT songs, the distance between good and great isn't a very long trip and there are a lot in between. Most of the fan favorites I would consider good to great with only a few exceptions.
This is a good point. I can put everything DT on shuffle and enjoy all of it. There are only a few that I would skip. Most of the gap between good and great is just preference or mood.
I think Untethered Angel falls into a 'eh' for me. I agree with the comment on Home too. It has great stuff but feels unfinished.
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I’ll throw another one out there;
Viper King - Yiiikes. I’ll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.
I'm not sure Viper King can reasonably be called a "major fan favorite."
Sure but it’s not exactly obscure either. It garnered almost universe praise when the album first came out and received 11 votes as being a favorite among the Mangini era which puts it at the top half of the D/T album.
Ummm...are there any DT songs that ARE obscure to the denizens of DTF? In any event, I don't think "not exactly obscure" and "major fan favorite" aren't the same thing.
Well, most of this thread is basically "Let me pick a song I don't like and then arbitrarily call it a fan favorite so I can bash on it."
I don't know about that, but some folks sure did miss the point.
As to why it's so revered, I think there's at least a few things: that opening heavy guitar riff, the Tool-ish bass line, the hooky catchy chorus and the instrumental section at the end of the song. Maybe the call backs to Metropolis also do it for some.
Except for the "Tool-ish bass line" (which I wouldn't even know what that meant but for the commentary track on LSFNY), I agree with all of this, but there's a lot more to it. It's a critical piece in the overall SFAM story, and there simply isn't any part of the song that I find unappealing. Great riffs. Great melodies. Great playing.
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Except for the "Tool-ish bass line" (which I wouldn't even know what that meant but for the commentary track on LSFNY), I agree with all of this, but there's a lot more to it. It's a critical piece in the overall SFAM story, and there simply isn't any part of the song that I find unappealing. Great riffs. Great melodies. Great playing.
And when I saw it performed in LA,it was the best audience groove with a song I have experienced. So loud, perfectly played, the audience rolling like a wave perfectly in sync with the rhythm. :metal (not the same in Milwaukee, but still fabulous)
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Except for the "Tool-ish bass line" (which I wouldn't even know what that meant but for the commentary track on LSFNY), I agree with all of this, but there's a lot more to it. It's a critical piece in the overall SFAM story, and there simply isn't any part of the song that I find unappealing. Great riffs. Great melodies. Great playing.
The moaning part :lol
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Huh. I love the first half of Home, but as soon as the instrumental razzle dazzle starts I tap out.
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The moaning part :lol
I love the song, but I fear if I ever play it with my kids around I'll have to teach them sex ed right after and I'm just not willing to do that yet ;D.
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Well, most of this thread is basically "Let me pick a song I don't like and then arbitrarily call it a fan favorite so I can bash on it."
LOL, pretty much.
For example, even though I like it a lot, I am not sure on what planet Viper King would be considered a "major fan favorite."
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The moaning part :lol
I love the song, but I fear if I ever play it with my kids around I'll have to teach them sex ed right after and I'm just not willing to do that yet ;D.
:lol That's funny. Can't say I blame you.
Huh. I love the first half of Home, but as soon as the instrumental razzle dazzle starts I tap out.
:lol That's some of the best instrumental work they've ever done. JR followed by JP and then the 3 way unison with JM at the end. :hefdaddy
Well, most of this thread is basically "Let me pick a song I don't like and then arbitrarily call it a fan favorite so I can bash on it."
It certainly seems that way. :\
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I’ll throw another one out there;
Viper King - Yiiikes. I’ll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.
I'm not sure Viper King can reasonably be called a "major fan favorite."
Sure but it’s not exactly obscure either. It garnered almost universe praise when the album first came out and received 11 votes as being a favorite among the Mangini era which puts it at the top half of the D/T album.
Ummm...are there any DT songs that ARE obscure to the denizens of DTF? In any event, I don't think "not exactly obscure" and "major fan favorite" aren't the same thing.
Not to beat a dead horse but your picks of The Mirror and In the Presence of Enemies aren’t exactly major fan favorites either. I honestly don’t think I’ve ever read anything positive about the Mirror on this forum in years. Viper King, on the other hand, is a recent song that’s garnered a ton of praise and viewed in a positive light by the majority of fans on an album that fans are still talking about. If you want to limit the discussion to the 10-12 songs that would actually qualify as “major fan favorite” that’s fine, but don’t act like you weren’t loosey goosey with your picks either. :lol
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Where exactly has Viper King "garnered a ton of praise?" ??? I've never seen that.
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Where exactly has Viper King "garnered a ton of praise?" ??? I've never seen that.
Literally the top two comments on the last page on the D/T thread are about how good Viper King is. It’s probably more noticeable to people who passionately dislike the song but nearly EVERYONE was goo goo over that song. Even in this thread 3-4 people have come to its defense. If that’s not a fan favorite I don’t know what is. :rollin
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Where exactly has Viper King "garnered a ton of praise?" ??? I've never seen that.
Literally the top two comments on the last page on the D/T thread are about how good Viper King is. It’s probably more noticeable to people who passionately dislike the song but nearly EVERYONE was goo goo over that song. Even in this thread 3-4 people have come to its defense. If that’s not a fan favorite I don’t know what is. :rollin
I think it's clear that you don't what a fan favorite is.
Viper King is from the new album, so of course it is getting talked about a lot. Duh.
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Where exactly has Viper King "garnered a ton of praise?" ??? I've never seen that.
Literally the top two comments on the last page on the D/T thread are about how good Viper King is. It’s probably more noticeable to people who passionately dislike the song but nearly EVERYONE was goo goo over that song. Even in this thread 3-4 people have come to its defense. If that’s not a fan favorite I don’t know what is. :rollin
I think it's clear that you don't what a fan favorite is.
Viper King is from the new album, so of course it is getting talked about a lot. Duh.
I would say the entire album is a fan favorite and I singled that song out along with Pale Blue Dot. The fact that it’s current makes it all the more relevant, unlike say Our New World, Sacrificed Sons, Disappear etc etc.
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Where exactly has Viper King "garnered a ton of praise?" ??? I've never seen that.
Literally the top two comments on the last page on the D/T thread are about how good Viper King is. It’s probably more noticeable to people who passionately dislike the song but nearly EVERYONE was goo goo over that song. Even in this thread 3-4 people have come to its defense. If that’s not a fan favorite I don’t know what is. :rollin
2 comments in one thread and 3-4 comments in another does not come anywhere close to making it a "major fan favorite." I don't really understand where you are coming from. Sorry, I just don't. As Kev said, newer songs often get a more positive reaction than they may otherwise "deserve" (for lack of a better terms). But Viper King has not by any stretch garnered the type of widespread praise that would place it in "major fan favorite" territory.
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It's okay guys just talk about I&W and Awake and SFAM and SDOIT again and we'll have covered all the fan favorites :P
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Where exactly has Viper King "garnered a ton of praise?" ??? I've never seen that.
Literally the top two comments on the last page on the D/T thread are about how good Viper King is. It’s probably more noticeable to people who passionately dislike the song but nearly EVERYONE was goo goo over that song. Even in this thread 3-4 people have come to its defense. If that’s not a fan favorite I don’t know what is. :rollin
2 comments in one thread and 3-4 comments in another does not come anywhere close to making it a "major fan favorite." I don't really understand where you are coming from. Sorry, I just don't. As Kev said, newer songs often get a more positive reaction than they may otherwise "deserve" (for lack of a better terms). But Viper King has not by any stretch garnered the type of widespread praise that would place it in "major fan favorite" territory.
No but near universal praise in the D/T thread is indicative of pattern which shows it has a certain level of popularity amongst the fans. But that’s neither here nor there, 80% of the of the songs chosen here aren’t “major fan favorites” but Viper King gets singled out BECAUSE it has many fans, including yourself.
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I’ll throw another one out there;
Viper King - Yiiikes. I’ll (usually) defend LaBrie but his vocals just do NOT sound good with that type of song.
I'm not sure Viper King can reasonably be called a "major fan favorite."
Sure but it’s not exactly obscure either. It garnered almost universe praise when the album first came out and received 11 votes as being a favorite among the Mangini era which puts it at the top half of the D/T album.
Ummm...are there any DT songs that ARE obscure to the denizens of DTF? In any event, I don't think "not exactly obscure" and "major fan favorite" aren't the same thing.
Not to beat a dead horse but your picks of The Mirror and In the Presence of Enemies aren’t exactly major fan favorites either. I honestly don’t think I’ve ever read anything positive about the Mirror on this forum in years. Viper King, on the other hand, is a recent song that’s garnered a ton of praise and viewed in a positive light by the majority of fans on an album that fans are still talking about. If you want to limit the discussion to the 10-12 songs that would actually qualify as “major fan favorite” that’s fine, but don’t act like you weren’t loosey goosey with your picks either. :lol
Not exactly scientific, but in the current Dream Theater "League" (in the polls/survivors section), The Mirror is 17-4-1, and ITPOE is 19-3. I seem to be one of the very few who doesn't like those songs. By contrast, Viper King is 8-14, and I have no idea where you've seen it "garner[] a ton of praise" (unless your definition of "a ton" is a few random comments here and there).
Anyway, point made, and we can agree to disagree.
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Well, most of this thread is basically "Let me pick a song I don't like and then arbitrarily call it a fan favorite so I can bash on it."
Which was certainly not my intention. I thought it would be obvious what "major fan favorites" are. :lol
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Well, most of this thread is basically "Let me pick a song I don't like and then arbitrarily call it a fan favorite so I can bash on it."
Which was certainly not my intention. I thought it would be obvious what "major fan favorites" are. :lol
Do a reverse poll, with the option to pick your LEAST favorite.
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I hope this passes the true fan fave filter: Bridges In The Sky and Illumination Theory are good, not great.
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Where exactly has Viper King "garnered a ton of praise?" ??? I've never seen that.
Literally the top two comments on the last page on the D/T thread are about how good Viper King is. It’s probably more noticeable to people who passionately dislike the song but nearly EVERYONE was goo goo over that song. Even in this thread 3-4 people have come to its defense. If that’s not a fan favorite I don’t know what is. :rollin
2 comments in one thread and 3-4 comments in another does not come anywhere close to making it a "major fan favorite." I don't really understand where you are coming from. Sorry, I just don't. As Kev said, newer songs often get a more positive reaction than they may otherwise "deserve" (for lack of a better terms). But Viper King has not by any stretch garnered the type of widespread praise that would place it in "major fan favorite" territory.
No but near universal praise in the D/T thread is indicative of pattern which shows it has a certain level of popularity amongst the fans. But that’s neither here nor there, 80% of the of the songs chosen here aren’t “major fan favorites” but Viper King gets singled out BECAUSE it has many fans, including yourself.
What? Again, you are completely off base. Nobody singled out Viper King except you. What is being singled out is your series of posts, because they are so offbase in insisting that 5 or 6 likes out of the entire fan base somehow makes it a "major fan favorite." Sorry, but you are just wrong on that (as you are of your mistaken belief that I am somehow a huge fan of the song).
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Numerous people in the below thread expressed that they liked Raw Dog.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=15125.msg524001#msg524001
Therefore, it is a "major fan favorite," amirite?
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How's about we stop quibbling and sniping at each other about what exactly a 'fan favorite' is and just continue the discussion ???
... that said, do Voices and Scarred still count? Seems like most Awake lovers love those but I think they're the two worst tracks on the album. They're far from great imo
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Numerous people in the below thread expressed that they liked Raw Dog.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=15125.msg524001#msg524001
Therefore, it is a "major fan favorite," amirite?
LOL Kev. You're such a smartass. :lol
How's about we stop quibbling and sniping at each other about what exactly a 'fan favorite' is and just continue the discussion ???
... that said, do Voices and Scarred still count? Seems like most Awake lovers love those but I think they're the two worst tracks on the album. They're far from great imo
Well, let's see. After 22 weeks in DT The League, here's what we have.
Scarred (22-0)
Voices (21-1)
Viper King (8-14) Not exactly on it's way to being a fan favorite. :lol
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Those are definitely discussion-worthy choices.
Voices is not a favorite of mine. But I have no problem with it being so highly revered. In fact, I have a really hard time justifying in my own mind why it isn't one of my favorites as I run through what really works in the song and arrive at the conclusion that the answer is, "virtually everything."
Scarred is one that I didn't care for at first. But the more I heard it, the more it clicked. It was at one time a top 10 DT song for me, and I think it is well worthy of that position. Given the amount of great material they have written since, I'm not sure I could still rank it in my top 10. But it surely isn't far off either.
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Those are definitely discussion-worthy choices.
Voices is not a favorite of mine. But I have no problem with it being so highly revered. In fact, I have a really hard time justifying in my own mind why it isn't one of my favorites as I run through what really works in the song and arrive at the conclusion that the answer is, "virtually everything."
Scarred is one that I didn't care for at first. But the more I heard it, the more it clicked. It was at one time a top 10 DT song for me, and I think it is well worthy of that position. Given the amount of great material they have written since, I'm not sure I could still rank it in my top 10. But it surely isn't far off either.
Interesting. For me, it's mostly James's performances that ruin both songs for me. On Awake he is magnificent, but at the same time tends to get a little obnoxious with his vocal lines and inflections, and those two are the chief offenders and destroy both songs for me.
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Scarred is my favorite on Awake. Voices is a top 5.
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Voices is top 3 for me. And Scarred is equally magnificent. All of Awake is magnificent :metal
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Definitely, and the expectations were so high after I&W. That's an incredible feat and they delivered. :hefdaddy
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Well, most of this thread is basically "Let me pick a song I don't like and then arbitrarily call it a fan favorite so I can bash on it."
Wanted to post days ago on this, and I totally agree. So, let me bash away ;)
But, first, I'll defend a few that have been bashed. 'Prophets of War' (great in concert, good lyrics for the times and clever spelling), 'Our New World' (with the 'Saviour in the Square intro as the intro....it's fabulous), and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with 8vM or disc two of Six Degrees.
I am a firm believer, as an 'ol fart, that, other than 'Lost Not Forgotten', there is nothing wrong with ADToE (though I have 'Outcry' on my TA disc). And....the new album...is five stars plus in my book.
Now, moving on....
'Awake'....I prefer my version of the 'Mirror' 45, followed by 'To Live Forever', and then delete SDV. 'Scarred' makes such a great album closer. But, what a really great album!
'A Change of Seasons'....sacrilege, but it doesn't quite resonate with me. Considering the I&W tour encore, that was a bummer.
And more sacrilege....'The Glass Prison'. The first track I saw them play in concert, the first studio track I heard days later after purchasing the CD. I 'like' most of it, but have edited it to remove the rap and the ending.
'Home'....I prefer the single version, but, damn, seeing it live this past spring, JP blew me away with what he had to do on that track.
'Finally Free'.....the taped noises spoil it.
'Illumination Theory'....it is rather disjointed. I know that many think it is better than sliced bread, but it doesn't grab me (such a pity).
I don't hate any of the above.
It's just that (pardon my Queen fandom) I don't go 'ga ga' over those listed above.
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But, first, I'll defend a few that have been bashed. 'Prophets of War' (great in concert, good lyrics for the times and clever spelling), 'Our New World' (with the 'Saviour in the Square intro as the intro....it's fabulous), and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with 8vM or disc two of Six Degrees.
POW is one that I was referencing as clearly NOT a major fan favorite, so shouldn't even be in the discussion. But for me personally, it is DT's absolute worst songs and one of very few that I don't like. I guess I can give Our New World a pass on the "favorite" thing. Close enough. I agree with you on it being a good song. And I will stand side by side with you on defending 8VM and SDOIT. Those are both top 3 DT songs.
Along with...
'A Change of Seasons'....sacrilege, but it doesn't quite resonate with me. Considering the I&W tour encore, that was a bummer.
>:( And here I thought we were friends...
I had picked up the studio EP a few times at a used shop where you could listen before buying, and the parts I sampled didn't do it for me at the time. It wasn't until I heard the live version on LSFNY that my mind was blown and it became a favorite. And I think that version is superior in every way to the studio version. That said, after becoming familiar with the studio version afterward, I have to defend the song in all its forms. Top 3 for sure.
And more sacrilege....'The Glass Prison'. The first track I saw them play in concert, the first studio track I heard days later after purchasing the CD. I 'like' most of it, but have edited it to remove the rap and the ending.
Sorry, can't say I am with you on this one either. Great song. And you edited out the ending? :omg: ??? That's one of the best parts! (and I have no idea what "rap" you are referring to)
'Home'....I prefer the single version, but, damn, seeing it live this past spring, JP blew me away with what he had to do on that track.
I cannot say I am overly familiar with the single version because it just feels too truncated, so I've never given it much attention. That said, while I LOVE the full version, I feel it does meander quite a bit. And the porn samples are a huge turnoff for what would otherwise be a top 10 song for me.
'Finally Free'.....the taped noises spoil it.
I like this one just fine. But it has never stood out to me as a standalone song, and I have always had a bit of a hard time seeing why people like it so much. But to each their own. There is certainly nothing "bad" about it. In fact, for my tastes, this might be a great example of a song that a lot of people put into the "great" category that I feel is "just good."
'Illumination Theory'....it is rather disjointed. I know that many think it is better than sliced bread, but it doesn't grab me (such a pity).
I completely get it. I like the song a lot. But its disjointed nature is what keeps me from truly loving it. The middle part is really nice. But it is too long and too much of a momentum killer for me. It is one of the few nitpicky times I wish they would have edited themselves and arranged this one differently. But the song also has some of their best stuff, and I really love a lot of what it brings to the table.
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There's rap in TGP? News to me.
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Sorry, can't say I am with you on this one either. Great song. And you edited out the ending? :omg: ??? That's one of the best parts! (and I have no idea what "rap" you are referring to)
There's rap in TGP? News to me.
I'm guessing it's the section starting at 8:04 ("Enter the door....").
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'Finally Free'.....the taped noises spoil it.
I like this one just fine. But it has never stood out to me as a standalone song, and I have always had a bit of a hard time seeing why people like it so much. But to each their own. There is certainly nothing "bad" about it. In fact, for my tastes, this might be a great example of a song that a lot of people put into the "great" category that I feel is "just good."
Finally Free is my favorite song from the album. I get what you are saying and definitively as a stand alone song is just good, but in the context of the album as a whole is a great closer, making it a great song. If the album would've ended in TSCO the album would have been "Meh" for me, but the addition of Finally Free added a twist to the story that gives the album so much more power as a whole (and the one thing I was missing from TA, a "plot twist).
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'Illumination Theory'....it is rather disjointed. I know that many think it is better than sliced bread, but it doesn't grab me (such a pity).
I used to feel the same way about IT (it being disjointed), but once you realise the structure mirrors the lyrics (thanks erwinrafael for the analysis), and how the first part presents all these questions, the middle part is the introspective/trying to find the answers section and the final part are the answers themselves; it gives a whole new perspective on the song. Also, it's the only true epic from the Mangini era so far, so it helps the case too ;D
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I agree with DragonAttack on TGP ending, we have this crazy instrumental section and then we get this one minute that just feels too long and not in place ??? I thought at first it ruins it for other people as well so I was so surprised when I found out people think it's the good part of the song :omg:
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Sorry, can't say I am with you on this one either. Great song. And you edited out the ending? :omg: ??? That's one of the best parts! (and I have no idea what "rap" you are referring to)
There's rap in TGP? News to me.
I'm guessing it's the section starting at 8:04 ("Enter the door....").
Huh. That is most definitely not rap.
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... that said, do Voices and Scarred still count? Seems like most Awake lovers love those but I think they're the two worst tracks on the album. They're far from great imo
With all due respect, I struggle to understand how one could feel this way about those two songs and still call themselves a DT fan. ???
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I actually just checked the DT Fan Handbook, and it actually states that one can actually dislike up to five songs without having their "True Fan" membership cards revoked. So Katt is still in good standing.
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^ :lol
I agree with DragonAttack on TGP ending, we have this crazy instrumental section and then we get this one minute that just feels too long and not in place ??? I thought at first it ruins it for other people as well so I was so surprised when I found out people think it's the good part of the song :omg:
Actually, I don't think there's any "one minute" in a DT song that is too long. It's more like a blink of the eye. ;) As far as the ending goes, I wouldn't say it's "the" good part of the song but it is "a" good part. One of many...
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^ :lol
I agree with DragonAttack on TGP ending, we have this crazy instrumental section and then we get this one minute that just feels too long and not in place ??? I thought at first it ruins it for other people as well so I was so surprised when I found out people think it's the good part of the song :omg:
Actually, I don't think there's any "one minute" in a DT song that is too long. It's more like a blink of the eye. ;) As far as the ending goes, I wouldn't say it's "the" good part of the song but it is "a" good part. One of many...
To me, DT is all about different, off the cuff, long, weird, wankery, but yet good music. I find it funny when one aspect or another of a song is picked on. If they didn't do all the different crazy stuff, they would just be a boring, basic band. I love when songs go in one direction and then take a hard right. Cool! After d/t was released I saw many comments about how the songs are too short. But on the other hand, with long songs I see comments about how this part should be cut out, it's too long etc. Variety keeps DT, DT.
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^ :lol
I agree with DragonAttack on TGP ending, we have this crazy instrumental section and then we get this one minute that just feels too long and not in place ??? I thought at first it ruins it for other people as well so I was so surprised when I found out people think it's the good part of the song :omg:
Actually, I don't think there's any "one minute" in a DT song that is too long. It's more like a blink of the eye. ;) As far as the ending goes, I wouldn't say it's "the" good part of the song but it is "a" good part. One of many...
To me, DT is all about different, off the cuff, long, weird, wankery, but yet good music. I find it funny when one aspect or another of a song is picked on. If they didn't do all the different crazy stuff, they would just be a boring, basic band. I love when songs go in one direction and then take a hard right. Cool! After d/t was released I saw many comments about how the songs are too short. But on the other hand, with long songs I see comments about how this part should be cut out, it's too long etc. Variety keeps DT, DT.
Nailed it :tup
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I actually just checked the DT Fan Handbook, and it actually states that one can actually dislike up to five songs without having their "True Fan" membership cards revoked. So Katt is still in good standing.
I hope I am as well, Bosk. :D
I must have hit a nerve or three, due to your well written response. Once again, in keeping with the thread, and not 'dissing' the tunes I listed.....to me, they are 'OK' (and then some).....they just aren't my 'favorites'. I also wish they were. 'Most' of the moments in those tracks grab me, but there are the too many moments that keep me from going to the complete 'effin ey' level.
Call it the very ol' fart in me. Queen fan and all, due to the guitars and LVs (otherwise I would have dropped them like a stone fifteen years ago)... I love I&W, 90% of 'Awake', SFoM, adore everything about 8vM (including the so called 'sappy' moments), most of SC, ADToE, 12, D/T, and....about 85% of FII (love my edited version).
(I am also soooo glad for 'Viper King'. Found a four inch model car at the Pacific Ocean, in metro Baltimore, and on Broadway in NYC. A fab track to insert after 'Out of Reach'. John Bonham would love the homage of 'Trampled Underfoot', as would Roger Taylor of Queen from 'I'm In Love With My Car').
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Numerous people in the below thread expressed that they liked Raw Dog.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=15125.msg524001#msg524001
Therefore, it is a "major fan favorite," amirite?
LOL Kev. You're such a smartass. :lol
:biggrin: :biggrin:
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... that said, do Voices and Scarred still count? Seems like most Awake lovers love those but I think they're the two worst tracks on the album. They're far from great imo
With all due respect, I struggle to understand how one could feel this way about those two songs and still call themselves a DT fan. ???
There are over 150 songs in Dream Theater's primary (full length) catalog. I can't dislike 2? Literally the rest of the album is fantastic. I just don't get the hype over those two at all.
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With all due respect, I struggle to understand how one could feel this way about those two songs and still call themselves a DT fan. ???
Seriously? I've never listened to Sacrificed Sons, but still consider DT to be one of my favorite bands. Am I not a fan?
The best version of Awake is the cassette version because Scarred isn't on it. It was cool to see live, but I don't stop to listen to it.
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Almost 35 years into DT's career and some of us haven't realised yet that their catalog is vast and varied enough for fans to like some songs and dislike others (without blindingly bashing them). We don't need to agree on everything here, people :tup
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With all due respect, I struggle to understand how one could feel this way about those two songs and still call themselves a DT fan. ???
Seriously? I've never listened to Sacrificed Sons, but still consider DT to be one of my favorite bands. Am I not a fan?
The best version of Awake is the cassette version because Scarred isn't on it. It was cool to see live, but I don't stop to listen to it.
I think ya’ll are taking that poster’s message a bit out of context, maybe. On one hand I don’t agree with the basic premise but I think what he’s trying to say is that Scarred and Voices are so exemplary of what DT does best, it’s odd to dislike those songs but be a big DT fan. It’s like saying I LOVE Dream Theater, but hate soaring vocal melodies, guitar solos, fast keyboard/guitar unisons, songs with lots of transitions and odd time signatures. No doubt DT has had an extremely diverse discography over the years, but to some people there are certain songs which exemplify what the band is all about.
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I think ya’ll are taking that poster’s message a bit out of context, maybe. On one hand I don’t agree with the basic premise but I think what he’s trying to say is that Scarred and Voices are so exemplary of what DT does best, it’s odd to dislike those songs but be a big DT fan. It’s like saying I LOVE Dream Theater, but hate soaring vocal melodies, guitar solos, fast keyboard/guitar unisons, songs with lots of transitions and odd time signatures. No doubt DT has had an extremely diverse discography over the years, but to some people there are certain songs which exemplify what the band is all about.
What's odd about not liking certain songs and being a fan? I'd bet good money that there are a lot of people here who wouldn't put Pull Me Under in their Top 3, even Top 10 and that's DT's biggest song. A band like DT is so varied that all of us latch on to different aspects of their music. Voices and Scarred maybe do nothing for Katt, but does something for others. Saying something like "How can you not like Scarred and Voices and still call yourself a DT fan" is a rather odd take, at least to me. I guess I also learned today that Scarred and Voices are far more popular than I thought. Scarred, at least, shocked me.
In my opinion, there are far better examples of what DT is all about other than Scarred and Voices, but that's my opinion. Doesn't change the fact that I'm still a fan of DT. It's the beauty of DT, we all see something different in the group that makes us a fan of their work.
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Yeah, I really don't think Scarred and Voices are exemplary of what DT does best. I would pick other songs, personally. I'm still a huge DT fan. Again... I literally love the rest of Awake. DT does DT better on songs like 6:00 and The Mirror... to me.
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But, first, I'll defend a few that have been bashed. 'Prophets of War' (great in concert, good lyrics for the times and clever spelling), 'Our New World' (with the 'Saviour in the Square intro as the intro....it's fabulous), and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with 8vM or disc two of Six Degrees.
I've always thought Prophets of War was great too, so I second that! Our New World is also really good and I don't ever skip it, and SDoIT the song is among my favorites that DT has written. But...
Octavarium, I just can't get into it anymore. Although James' scream towards the end still sometimes gives me goosbumps. My personal favorite on 8VM is Sacrificed Sons, and that's where I generally end it when I listen to that album.
But, like I said, I do understand why this song is so revered.
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Yeah, I really don't think Scarred and Voices are exemplary of what DT does best. I would pick other songs, personally.
Yeah, but you also like Power Windows, so.... :biggrin:
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Yeah, I really don't think Scarred and Voices are exemplary of what DT does best. I would pick other songs, personally. I'm still a huge DT fan. Again... I literally love the rest of Awake. DT does DT better on songs like 6:00 and The Mirror... to me.
How backwards could you be? :lol
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Yeah, I really don't think Scarred and Voices are exemplary of what DT does best. I would pick other songs, personally. I'm still a huge DT fan. Again... I literally love the rest of Awake. DT does DT better on songs like 6:00 and The Mirror... to me.
How backwards could you be? :lol
You have NO room to talk! Don't you have some reruns of Cheers to watch? :lol
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Yeah, I really don't think Scarred and Voices are exemplary of what DT does best. I would pick other songs, personally. I'm still a huge DT fan. Again... I literally love the rest of Awake. DT does DT better on songs like 6:00 and The Mirror... to me.
How backwards could you be? :lol
:potkettle: :lol
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