Nickelback - overhated band or not?

[Lonk]

So if Rush is objectively better than Foo Fighters, who are objectively better than Nickelback, where does Radiohead fall on the scale?

Somewhere between Metallica and Linkin Park? 

[WildRanger]

More talented?
Better tunes?

:

Yep.
They're more talented and that's objective. Grohl and Hawkins are much better musicians than any guy from Nickelback.
And "they wrote better tunes" is a subjective argument although the general consensus on that would agree with me.

[WildRanger]

So if Rush is objectively better than Foo Fighters, who are objectively better than Nickelback, where does Radiohead fall on the scale?

Somewhere between Metallica and Linkin Park? 

IDK where they fall. They're highly acclaimed and highest rated band on RateYourMusic.
In general they made a QUALITY music although I'm not a big fan of them. The Bends, OK Computers, The Kid A and In Rainbows are certified classics for a reason.

[Zantera]

These discussions about band X being 'objectively better' than band Y based on subjective opinions feels like shouting into a black void

[twosuitsluke]

These discussions about band X being 'objectively better' than band Y based on subjective opinions feels like shouting into a black void

 

It really is. This thread is ridiculous but hilarious. It's a bag of nonsense and contradictions.

Yet I'm drawn in everytime. I'm fighting the urge to respond so bad.

[soupytwist]

The biggest issue I've found with Nickelback is Rock music in general has suffered in terms of commercial success probably starting from the term of the millennium, yet you've got this band somehow having success, getting played on the radio and representing rock genre while most rock fans think they aren't very good.  So they get a bad rep......

But what's the difference between Foo Fighters and Nickelback?  One is revered (and up for RnRHoF consideration) and one is openly mocked.  Using U.S. sales only:

Foo Fighters: 10 studio albums, the first seven of which are platinum, but NO multi-platinum records.  The last three haven't even gone gold.  That's ballpark 8.5 million records (or less) sold.

Nickelback:  9 studio albums, the first didn't even go gold, but albums two through seven all went platinum, and four of those were multi-platinum. One is even DIAMOND.  That's ballpark 25.5 (or less) sold.

I get it, Dave Grohl is the teacher's pet, but still.

That kind off proves my point.  Foo's are one of the few rock acts who still retain a commercial presence (along with maybe Muse & The Arctic Monkeys?) yet they are still dwarfed by Nickelbacks numbers.   The hate simply comes from that level of success while representing a genre (rock) in which most rock fans dislike them.

I could be wrong but I highly doubt Nickelback would be asked to play a headline set at any geniune rock festival, because they'd generate a negative response.

[Elite]

More talented?
Better tunes?

:

Yep.
They're more talented and that's objective. Grohl and Hawkins are much better musicians than any guy from Nickelback.

How do you know?

[Anguyen92]

I could be wrong but I highly doubt Nickelback would be asked to play a headline set at any geniune rock festival, because they'd generate a negative response.

I think you would be right.  There would be no question if Nickelback is asked to headline Download or Rock AM Ring/Rock IM Park that they will draw and they will give the crowd a good show.  That stated, the initial backlash, if there is such an announcement, would be too much of a hurdle and headache to take on so promoters don't do that and are content with the tours Nickelback have done which typically draws and typically have good supporting acts.

[kirksnosehair]

I have tried with Rush many times, mainly because of them being big in the prog rock world, but they are just not my jam. I like the odd song but Nickleback have released music that is musically objectively better (whatever that means) than Rush, as far as I'm concerned.

If you need to things to be absolute, black and white, with no confusing grey areas, then you've already stated that Nickleback have sold more records. Therefore, they must be more 'musically objectively good' than Rush.

I'm shocked if you seriously claim this.

Yes, how utterly soul-crushing that someone would like "band a" more than "band b" 


I can't name a single song, album, member, lyric from Nickleback.  I don't know why anyone hates them, but something in the back of my mind tells me there's a splash of envy amidst all that hate.  In fact, I'll bet there's quite a bit of repressed envy powering at least some that hate.  The ones hating the hardest are probably the most envious.  Fuck, I'm envious and I don't even know any of their songs, but I know they've sold 50 million albums so I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say they must be doing something right or they wouldn't have sold 50 million albums. 


And yeah, I'm saying in this case commercial success WAS THE GOAL for this band so yeah, that commercial success speaks to the quality of the product, because it's the quality of the product that brought them the commercial success in the first place.  I don't know why that goes up some peoples' ass like a porcupine dipped in rubbing alcohol 

[WildRanger]

Fuck, I'm envious and I don't even know any of their songs, but I know they've sold 50 million albums so I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say they must be doing something right or they wouldn't have sold 50 million albums. 

So if you put emphasis on commercial success you also have to admit that Justin Bieber has done something right. So according to that his music must have some kind of artistic merit? 

And McDonalds' junk food is just artificial unhealthy JUNK and the masses of people are buying and enjoying it every day. So McDonalds must be doing something right. Plus they have a longevity, they are in business over 80 years.

[WilliamMunny]

Fuck, I'm envious and I don't even know any of their songs, but I know they've sold 50 million albums so I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say they must be doing something right or they wouldn't have sold 50 million albums. 

So if you put emphasis on commercial success you also have to admit that Justin Bieber has done something right. So according to that his music must have some kind of artistic merit? 

And McDonalds' junk food is just artificial unhealthy JUNK and the masses of people are buying and enjoying it every day. So McDonalds must be doing something right. Plus they have a longevity, they are in business over 80 years.

I'd agree with both of those statements. Mc'Donalds, as a business, is an undeiable success. Beiber, while perhaps not your cup of tea, absolutely has artistic merit in the eyes of his many, many fans.

[kirksnosehair]

Fuck, I'm envious and I don't even know any of their songs, but I know they've sold 50 million albums so I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say they must be doing something right or they wouldn't have sold 50 million albums. 

So if you put emphasis on commercial success you also have to admit that Justin Bieber has done something right. So according to that his music must have some kind of artistic merit? 

And McDonalds' junk food is just artificial unhealthy JUNK and the masses of people are buying and enjoying it every day. So McDonalds must be doing something right. Plus they have a longevity, they are in business over 80 years.

First off, I'm not "putting emphasis" on anything.  I'm simply stating that when a commercial rock band writes commercial rock songs and sells 50 million albums, yeah, that's pretty successful. 


And yes, I know this is sacrilege on a Dream Theater message board and it's not "cool" to think of Justin Bieber as talented but please tell the class about all of your gold and platinum-selling albums?  Again, commercial artist writes commercial songs and sells, in Bieber's case 20 million records, that's success.  And while I might not like it, of course it has artistic merit.  The fact that you asked that question demonstrates snobbery, frankly. 

[Lonk]

So if you put emphasis on commercial success you also have to admit that Justin Bieber has done something right. So according to that his music must have some kind of artistic merit? 

And McDonalds' junk food is just artificial unhealthy JUNK and the masses of people are buying and enjoying it every day. So McDonalds must be doing something right. Plus they have a longevity, they are in business over 80 years.

Yes,

And yes.

If you like it or not, that is a whole different conversation, but guys like Justin Beiber are doing something right to get to the point they are. Do I care about his music? no, but that doesn't mean anything. That's just me, and if you feel the same, that is just you.

Fast food is different. There are things you can measure here to say if it's good (for us) or not, but you, or I, or anyone else for that matter, can't tell somebody they can't like McDonalds food. They like what they like. Is that simple.

[Stadler]

For f---'s sake, you sound like my dad when he'd walk in while I was listening to Black Sabbath.  "Every song sounds the same!  It's NOISE!"     I love Rush - I'm actually on a pretty big Rush kick right now, as it happens - but I can see why someone wouldn't like them.

I get not being a fan of them but I can't get how someone cannot find one (or two or three) Rush song(s) to like, since their music is so diverse.
I think those people who say that haven't heard more than a couple of Rush songs. And as I said, I can accept that only in case if someone dislike Geddy's singing.

And when it comes to your stance towards Radiohead I can bet that you haven't heard a LOT OF their songs, but only a few. If you've heard 20 Radiohead songs you could find at least one song to like.

I just don't buy a claim "I'm not a fan of some (acclaimed) band so I like none of their songs" if the vocals are not the issue. It's just hardly possible.

Bro, I'm on record here - it's almost a joke - of revisiting Grace Under Pressure, a record I've owned since the late 80's, on about a quarterly basis to see if I like it any better (I just posted the other day that I might have had a breakthrough!).   I either like something or I don't, and the variable of "number of songs heard" isn't really a factor.  I OWN two Radiohead records (OK Computer, Kid A), and used to have three more (Pablo Honey, The Bends, Hail To The Thief).  They've got, what, nine records, so I've OWNED more than half of their catalogue.  They don't do anything for me. 

[kirksnosehair]

I don't know man, Rush have sold 25 million albums so they must suck 

[Stadler]

But what's the difference between Foo Fighters and Nickelback? 

Firstly FF are more TALENTED than Nickelback.
Secondly, although their catalog is far from amazing, they wrote BETTER tunes than Nickelback. Nickelback don't have something as "Everlong".

Prove it.  Those are just your opinions, which mean nothing.

Like mine don't mean anything:  Everlong is one of my favorite FF songs, and it's an average song at best.  I'd take "Hero" (which is a Chad solo song) and "How You Remind Me" over "Everlong" every day of the week.

[Stadler]

These discussions about band X being 'objectively better' than band Y based on subjective opinions feels like shouting into a black void

 

It really is. This thread is ridiculous but hilarious. It's a bag of nonsense and contradictions.

Yet I'm drawn in everytime. I'm fighting the urge to respond so bad.

I'm weak.  This is like chocolate, or a bottle of wine, or Mexican food, for me; I love it in the moment then regret it after the fact.

[Stadler]

Fuck, I'm envious and I don't even know any of their songs, but I know they've sold 50 million albums so I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say they must be doing something right or they wouldn't have sold 50 million albums. 

So if you put emphasis on commercial success you also have to admit that Justin Bieber has done something right. So according to that his music must have some kind of artistic merit? 

It sounds like you're mocking, but he HAS done something right and it DOES have artistic merit.  The kid himself is a joke of his own making in a lot of ways, and the way he got popular clearly rubs the bar-hardened road warriors the wrong way, but the dude has talent, even if it's a music you don't like.   "U Smile" is one of my favorite songs of all time. 

And McDonalds' junk food is just artificial unhealthy JUNK and the masses of people are buying and enjoying it every day. So McDonalds must be doing something right. Plus they have a longevity, they are in business over 80 years.

You're all over the map, dude.  Since when does"healthy" mean "good"?   They, too, are doing something right.  WTF.  All the judgments, all the dismissals, are simply based on your opinion and nothing more.

[King Postwhore]

My Nephew was living in Hollywood 5 or 6 years ago and he calls me one day and says, "I got someone to talk to."  The kid on the phone says I'm Justin Bieber.  I started to shit talk the Maple Leafs being a Bruins fan and He laughed and shit talked back.  My Nephew sent a picture of him with him a few minutes later.  He was no joke, skateboarding around town.

[twosuitsluke]

God, there is so much to unpick here.

WildRanger, I'm sure you come to DTF hoping for some prog rock echo chamber, where we all sit around and slag off crappy popular music  that the masses adore.  However, one of the main reasons I come back here all the time is the diverse bunch of people, and their diverse tastes.

Know I now in your black and white world "critically acclaimed" (which is a term I've heard you use so many times) artists should be heralded, and everything else is just trash that the uneducated listen to. But it's not that simple. By your own admission, from earlier posts, you've basically stated that if a band is "acclaimed" then they will literally have songs that appeal to all who consider themselves serious music fans. By the fact that they are acclaimed, they must appeal to you, with at least some of their songs:

I get not being a fan of them but I can't get how someone cannot find one (or two or three) Rush song(s) to like, since their music is so diverse.
I think those people who say that haven't heard more than a couple of Rush songs. And as I said, I can accept that only in case if someone dislike Geddy's singing.

And when it comes to your stance towards Radiohead I can bet that you haven't heard a LOT OF their songs, but only a few. If you've heard 20 Radiohead songs you could find at least one song to like.

I just don't buy a claim "I'm not a fan of some (acclaimed) band so I like none of their songs" if the vocals are not the issue. It's just hardly possible.

So if a band is "acclaimed" you can't buy someone saying they are a not a fan of them, and therefore not liking their songs? It's "hardly possible". Seriously, what?

This is what it seems to boil down to you. Critically acclaimed, whatever the fuck that actually means, means that you hold it in higher regard (and therefore superior), than all other music that isn't critically acclaimed? And by extension, everyone on DTF (as a prog forum) should agree with you?

Here's a question for you. What would happen if Nickleback's next album was "critically acclaimed"? Would you suddenly have to take them seriously and agree that they are talented and good at what they do? Seriously, answer this question.

Follow up question. I can only assume, from your previous statements, that you like songs by every "critically acclaimed" artist? You said it's hardly possible to listen to 20 songs by a "critically acclaimed" artist and not like any. Do you like every single "critically acclaimed" artist?

DTF, as I said, is full of open minded people (for the most part  ). I take the musical opinions and recommendations, of certain people on this forum, more seriously than any media/magazine/reviewer out there. You are not going to get what you are looking for with threads like this.

And yes, Justin Bieber has artistic merit.

FFS, I swore I wouldn't do this again...

[Stadler]

My Nephew was living in Hollywood 5 or 6 years ago and he calls me one day and says, "I got someone to talk to."  The kid on the phone says I'm Justin Bieber.  I started to shit talk the Maple Leafs being a Bruins fan and He laughed and shit talked back.  My Nephew sent a picture of him with him a few minutes later.  He was no joke, skateboarding around town.

That's why I love you, man.  You get three minutes with the Beebs, and in typical Boston fashion, you bust his balls about sports.   

 

[bluefox4000]

i'm not gonna respond to the tread topic cause at this point.....

but i must say i love this forum.  you guys are al so awesome for not slagging off music cause it's not prog.

just really appreciate it.  you guys rock.

[kirksnosehair]

In the realm of "prog" as it applies to modern music it's a relatively modern construct when you consider that Beethoven wrote his first symphony in C Major (4 movements) in the year 1800.  That's 221 years ago.  It took until the 1960's for that symphonic style to work its way into popular music.


What I'm saying is "prog" is to music as this period > . < is to this entire post.   It's a tiny sliver of what's out there and it certainly doesn't have the market on "good music" cornered.


In fact, I'd say there's probably more objectively good non-prog than there is prog when you consider how many non-prog artists there have been over the years compared to prog artists.


We're fans of a niche genre.  We don't hold the copyrights on what's "good" or "bad" and whether or not I personally like something has precisely ZERO bearing on its relative merit as art.

[King Postwhore]

My Nephew was living in Hollywood 5 or 6 years ago and he calls me one day and says, "I got someone to talk to."  The kid on the phone says I'm Justin Bieber.  I started to shit talk the Maple Leafs being a Bruins fan and He laughed and shit talked back.  My Nephew sent a picture of him with him a few minutes later.  He was no joke, skateboarding around town.

That's why I love you, man.  You get three minutes with the Beebs, and in typical Boston fashion, you bust his balls about sports.   

 

 . He got his punches in too!  Lol. Funny thing is, I knew it was him from his response. We both laughed.

My wife was looking at me asking who I was ribbing.  I told her, oh, Justin Bieber.   Friggin Leafs fans. Lol.

Chad is too. Lol

[kirksnosehair]

Wow, the most famous person I ever met was Clint Eastwood when I was a teenager and it kind of killed my whole image of him because I politely asked him for an autograph and he looked down at me (he's a tall mofo) and said, "fuck off, kid"     He smelled like whiskey.

[King Postwhore]

Damn.  That sucks. That was a dick move. He could have politely declined.

I met Bono too.  So damn cool.

[WildRanger]

It sounds like you're mocking, but he HAS done something right and it DOES have artistic merit.  The kid himself is a joke of his own making in a lot of ways, and the way he got popular clearly rubs the bar-hardened road warriors the wrong way, but the dude has talent, even if it's a music you don't like.   "U Smile" is one of my favorite songs of all time. 

 

[WildRanger]

I don't know man, Rush have sold 25 million albums so they must suck 

Good for them. And they don't suck.

Man, do you realise that Santana's most commercially successful album by a long shot is Supernatural from 1999? Does it mean that is his greatest album? Do you realize that the masses of people who bought that commercial album didn't know shit about Santana's classic stuff?

[Kotowboy]

So if Rush is objectively better than Foo Fighters, who are objectively better than Nickelback, where does Radiohead fall on the scale?

Everything up til and including KID A

Everything from Amnesiac onwards =

[Anguyen92]

I don't know man, Rush have sold 25 million albums so they must suck 

Good for them. And they don't suck.

Man, do you realise that Santana's most commercially successful album by a long shot is Supernatural from 1999? Does it mean that is his greatest album? Do you realize that the masses of people who bought that commercial album didn't know shit about Santana's classic stuff?

They probably don't, but they certainly know that song, Smooth, that he did with Matchbox 20's Rob Thomas.

[Elite]

Man, do you realise that Santana's most commercially successful album by a long shot is Supernatural from 1999?

No, I didn't. In fact, I have never heard of that album.

Does it mean that is his greatest album? Do you realize that the masses of people who bought that commercial album didn't know shit about Santana's classic stuff?

Does it matter?

[Elite]

Also:

Yep.
They're more talented and that's objective. Grohl and Hawkins are much better musicians than any guy from Nickelback.

How do you know?

[NoseofNicko]

WildRanger reminds me of myself............. when I was 15.

[Lonk]

WildRanger reminds me of myself............. when I was 15.

Same, those times when I thought I knew everything and everyone was wrong. 

[WildRanger]

And yes, I know this is sacrilege on a Dream Theater message board and it's not "cool" to think of Justin Bieber as talented but please tell the class about all of your gold and platinum-selling albums?  Again, commercial artist writes commercial songs and sells, in Bieber's case 20 million records, that's success.  And while I might not like it, of course it has artistic merit.  The fact that you asked that question demonstrates snobbery, frankly.

If Bieber has artistic merit then can we put him in the same pantheon of music artists with David Bowie?