Do you put the shopping carts back in the corral?

[eric42434224]

I'm literally about to shut my computer off for the night. It's 11PM in the Atlantic Northeast  and my alarm goes off at 4:45. I'm still trying to wrap my head around its absurdness. I'll address tomorrow after work.

Not sure if calling me

a Dick.

is cool though.

TAC, I carefully worded my statement to make sure I did not specifically call YOU anything.
I think people that do that are being a Dick.  And that includes myself, as I have done it many times in the past.  and it made me a Dick.
Through some thought about how my actions might affect others, I make every attempt to secure my cart in a corral if available.
I try, whenever possible, to not be a Dick.

Do try to address my post though, when you have time.

If, while there, your cart moved and damaged another persons car, you would be liable.  Not the store or landlord.  They provided the corrals partially for this very reason.

Why would you leave the lot, with your cart in the position to potentially cause damage, and no recourse for you to take responsibility?  Do't you think that is at the very least being a Dick not nice? 

It is certainly not absurd.....it is having consideration of others, and taking personal responsibility for your actions.

[Evermind]

I also feel strongly about this issue but at this point I'm just

I thought this thread has run its course quite a few times now but apparently not

Your car can get hit by a rock from a truck driving, damaged by people randomly parked outside your house.  Hit by a fucking kangeroo, thunderstorm hail damage (which has happened to me), anything.  Sometimes shit just happens.

If this ever happens to me, I'm gonna side with Tim on this

[jingle.boy]

Someone said it earlier, but let's go to the far extreme.... and NO ONE returns a cart to a corral ... EVER... at EVERY store parking lot.  Is that cool?  Seriousl?  Would the pg/TAC/Bosk crowd be ok with that?  I see one of two potential outcomes - either store managers incur the cost of additional man hours to gather them, and then as Tim already pointed out, margins are so thin they would have to increase prices or reduce other services to compensate. You guys ok with that?

Option B, would be parking lot chaos (and I'm being 100% serious here) - store managers/owners just leave the carts wherever everyone leaves them. Result ?? lack of parking spots, damaged cars, people fighting over carts in the parking lot, invariably there'd be a few shootings a year (likely in Texas and/or Florida).  You guys ok with all of that?  I'm not being facetious at all. Envision every single cart that a store has across the entire parking lot. At every single store everywhere.

My take on everyone on that side of the arguement is that you are ok that YOU (and a small minority)  leave your cart wherever, so long as most other people are returning theirs.

[eric42434224]

I also feel strongly about this issue but at this point I'm just

I thought this thread has run its course quite a few times now but apparently not

Yeah it definitely is 
I guess I was feeling left out and jumped in the fray for a bit.
For now the need is met, I almost hate myself.
Almost, but not quite,

[The Walrus]

Ruslan, this thread never dies. It is the gift that keeps on giving.

[Cool Chris]

This thread!

My take on everyone on that side of the arguement is that you are ok that YOU (and a small minority)  leave your cart wherever, so long as most other people are returning theirs.

I don't want to jump in inappropriately, but I don't think anyone is making the argument is that it is ok for anyone to leave their cart wherever.

[jingle.boy]

This thread!

My take on everyone on that side of the arguement is that you are ok that YOU (and a small minority)  leave your cart wherever, so long as most other people are returning theirs.

I don't want to jump in inappropriately, but I don't think anyone is making the argument is that it is ok for anyone to leave their cart wherever.

Ok, so if EVERY cart was in the H or X or whatever. Do you think all of them would naturally just stay there?  Do you think it would be convenient (or even physically possible) to get a cart in between 4 parked cars?  I dunno how big parking spots are in the US, but up here, no chance. The only way to get a cart out of an X if there were a couple of cars already parked there would be for me to get out of my car before I parked and move it. 

Seems totally worth the convenience of not returning a cart to a corral.

[Puppies_On_Acid]

I also feel strongly about this issue but at this point I'm just

I thought this thread has run its course quite a few times now but apparently not

Your car can get hit by a rock from a truck driving, damaged by people randomly parked outside your house.  Hit by a fucking kangeroo, thunderstorm hail damage (which has happened to me), anything.  Sometimes shit just happens.

If this ever happens to me, I'm gonna side with Tim on this

Those Russian kangaroo's are pretty crazy!

I don't know, TAC's side of the argument comes across to me as, if he were to pull in to a parking spot at the store and open his door and a gust of wind came up and threw his door in to the car he parked next to, causing damage, he would just say "fuck it, it's not my problem, it's the stores fault for not having someone here to hold my door for me. I didn't intentionally ram my door in to the car."

To me it all comes back to common decency. I've always been the type of person to go out of my way to at least be courteous and helpful to other people. Even if I don't know them. To do otherwise seems like a dick move, because it is a dick move. I mean, no, you technically are not obligated to put your cart in the corral (even though you should be), and no, the stores can't technically enforce it or make you do it, but seriously, not doing so is like going out of your way to be the exact opposite of courteous or helpful. It just perpetuates the 'me first' attitude that is so prevalent these days.

I'm probably not going to argue or debate my point any further, and I don't really care if anyone here agrees with my point. I get that everyone here is entitled to live their life however they want, but at the same time if I were to see someone from this forum pull something like leaving a cart in the parking lot (not in the corral), I will call you on it. I will be polite about it (unless you get rude), but I will still call you on it. That's just the type of person I am.

[wolfking]

There's a legal obligation?

No.  As you say, unless you use the trolley as a weapon, how the fuck could you be held responsible?  There is no law that you have to put your trolley in the corral so how can you be held legally responsible?  It comes back to bad luck and 'shit happens.' 

I'm a trolley returner but some of these defences seem a bit far fetched.

What if my trolley rolled into another trolley that hit a car?

[eric42434224]

There's a legal obligation?

No.  As you say, unless you use the trolley as a weapon, how the fuck could you be held responsible?  There is no law that you have to put your trolley in the corral so how can you be held legally responsible?  It comes back to bad luck and 'shit happens.' 

I'm a trolley returner but some of these defences seem a bit far fetched.

What if my trolley rolled into another trolley that hit a car?

Legal obligation as in liability for damages?  Of course you can be held responsible.

If I put up a pop up shade tent and don't properly secure it, am I liable if it blows into my neighbors screen?
If I don't trim or care for a tree on my property, and it falls into my neighbors house, am I liable?
If I don't use my parking brake on an incline and my car rolls into another, am I liable?
What if you have your cart full of items, and while you were opening your trunk, the cart rolled into another car....are you liable?  Is that just SHIT HAPPENS???

Of course you are.  Most times, it isn't "SHIT HAPPENS"....it is that a person does not take due care to ensure their actions do not cause an accident or damage.
The point is not that there isn't a law requiring you to put the cart in the corral....the point is that you did have the clear option to properly secure the cart in the corral, and decided not to.  That left the cart in a position to do potential damage...that was your choice....not some bad luck, or the happening of shit.

That is what I don't understand.  How can someone leave a cart unsecured, when they have a clear and easy option to secure it, and claim "shit happens" if their cart damages someone else's property?  What happened to personal responsibility?


I read online:

"There is a legal doctrine called "Res Ipsa Loquitur". You had exclusive control over the cart and the manner in which you park it. The doctrine allows a judge to infer that you were negligent based on the totality of the circumstances. The cart would not have hit the other car but-for your action (or inaction).
"


EDIT: Returning carts (to store or corral) for other reasons, such as convenience for other shoppers or store staff is, IMO, a nice thing to do....but I will not fault anyone for not doing it on that basis.  The world would be a better place if we were all more considerate for sure, but that really isn't a Corral argument I am willing to die for LOL.  But just brushing off the personal responsibility for damage to someone else's property as "eh, shit happens", or "not my problem", kind of rubs me the wrong way. I feel that we should know better.

--If you have the opportunity to secure your property, or item you just used, in a secure manner or location, and you choose not to, you are responsible if that item causes damage to someone else's property.  Are their exceptions?  I'm sure there are as there are a trillion different scenarios.  I'm just a bit shocked at the lack of personal responsibility for one's own actions (or inaction).  JMO I guess.

[The Walrus]

There's a legal obligation?

No.  As you say, unless you use the trolley as a weapon, how the fuck could you be held responsible?  There is no law that you have to put your trolley in the corral so how can you be held legally responsible?  It comes back to bad luck and 'shit happens.' 

I'm a trolley returner but some of these defences seem a bit far fetched.

What if my trolley rolled into another trolley that hit a car?

This just reads like you don't care if you damage someone's car. You leave the cart out and it rolls into someone's car, of course you're responsible. Who else could be?

[Lonk]

Last few pages have been...interesting to say the least. Here is my contribution to this.

I used to work in retail and there is a lot more that annoys store managers and employees alike, we just dealt with it because, well, "The customer is always right" mentality. You don't want to lose a customer just because they didn't return their cart to the corral. My experience, what used to annoy me the most was organizing a section, walking by 5 minutes later and seeing customers picking up items and putting it back somewhere else but then complaining the items are not where they are supposed to be. Even though it was part of my job to make sure the store was organized, does not mean It didn't bother me to see someone mindlessly undoing something I did just a few minutes before (and same thing in the warehouse. I would take hours organizing the warehouse, lifting 75+ pound boxes only to find it a mess the following day).

Bottom line is those things slows down productivity and makes it difficult for other clients to shop and employees to keep a neat store/lot. A store manager or even a good employee is not going to call you out for it (as it has been mentioned before, you would be out of a job faster than you would want to). So at least for me (not trying to speak for anyone else), I do the best I can in making everyone's life a little easier, even if it means taking a couple of minutes returning an item to the correct aisle or the shopping cart to the corral because I know how it felt when I was on the other side of the fence.

PS: If you go to a store and you are going to pay cash and the employee reaches out to accept the money, don't throw the money on the counter! that's rude and annoying 

[bosk1]

My take on everyone on that side of the arguement is that you are ok that YOU (and a small minority)  leave your cart wherever, so long as most other people are returning theirs.

Well, by including my name with that conclusion, you are either ignoring my posts or just being completely dishonest, because I have clearly said the opposition several times over.  Don't deliberately or negligently misquote me to make your position, please.  Stick with what I said, not what you wish I said.

[The Walrus]

My take on everyone on that side of the arguement is that you are ok that YOU (and a small minority)  leave your cart wherever, so long as most other people are returning theirs.

Well, by including my name with that conclusion, you are either ignoring my posts or just being completely dishonest, because I have clearly said the opposition several times over.  Don't deliberately or negligently misquote me to make your position, please.  Stick with what I said, not what you wish I said.

Oh the irony. It's killing me 

[bosk1]

[jingle.boy]

My take on everyone on that side of the arguement is that you are ok that YOU (and a small minority)  leave your cart wherever, so long as most other people are returning theirs.

Well, by including my name with that conclusion, you are either ignoring my posts or just being completely dishonest, because I have clearly said the opposition several times over.  Don't deliberately or negligently misquote me to make your position, please.  Stick with what I said, not what you wish I said.

What is it that you have said the opposition to?  I'm missing the point of what I've apparently misquoted you on.

Which I don't understand, because I'm not quoting you at all, so how have I 'misquoted' you?  What I believe I'm doing is presenting my take, my assessment, my opinion of your (and others') position of why it is perfectly acceptable to NOT return carts to a corral.  You (and pg/TAC/others) have every right to disagree with my take, my assessment, my opinion.  I truly do not know how or where I'm misquoting you.  Please point to your specific statements that are in opposition to my take, my assessment, my opinion that you believe it's unnecessary to return carts to a corral.  That's the only thing I'm insinuating towards you (and pg/TAC specifically - I can't recall if there are any other posters that have been as vocal as the three of you)

Perhaps my comment of "leave your cart wherever" was a little loosely defined, hence I tightened subsequently up that comment.

You truly do have a blind spot for the situations where you demonstrate virtually exact behaviour that you criticize others over.

[Dublagent66]

I think jingle may be on to something there. Just sayin'...

I think I'd probably call the cops on him and report to the store manager that there was some clown outside harassing and threatening the store's customers, and that I wouldn't shop there again until they did something about it.

LOL, I think "threatening" is a far cry from reminding people that the corrals are there for a reason.  If I was the store manager, I'd be out there harassing them myself. 

I think I'd probably call the cops on him and report to the store manager that there was some clown outside harassing and threatening the store's customers, and that I wouldn't shop there again until they did something about it.

Id imagine that's exactly what happened, then the guy could move onto the next town and start over. 

I doubt it.  He didn't do anything remotely serious enough to call the police.  If I was the manager and someone came in to complain about some guy like that in the parking lot, I'd tell them to put their cart in the goddamn corral.

You'd be out of business pretty fucking quick.  No matter what you think of people not putting their trolleys back, if you were the manager of the store, you would tell the guy harassing people to piss off and put it back for them, apologize and hope they come back.

Uh no.  The worst that would happen is probably disciplinary action from the owner of the store if it actually escalated to that, which I already stated is not very likely if you bothered to read my post.  I also posted that if people are being harassed, it's most likely by other customers rather than some random guy scouting the lot with a video camera.  Your point seems rather moot.

If I was the manager and someone came in to complain about some guy like that in the parking lot, I'd tell them to put their cart in the goddamn corral.

And that's all well and good, but most store managers would not do that, for several reasons.  And as has already been mentioned in the thread (and keeps getting ignored), most store managers don't care whether or not customers put carts in the corral and don't see it as an issue.  Most of them do see it as a problem if their customers (rightly or wrongly) feel threatened by rude people and talk about taking their business elsewhere.

And the bottom line is, there's just no good reason to be rude to people.

Well, I was sort of joking if you didn't catch it because there's no way I would ever be a grocery store manager in the first place. 

However, I disagree with your theory.  That really isn't the bottom line.  There's a lot more to it than people's feelings supposedly being hurt or threatened somehow because someone calls them out (or points something out).  You're right about one thing.  Most store managers probably wouldn't do that because they are too politically correct to care and just don't have the time anyway.

My take is this, which has been mentioned previously in this thread (and keeps getting ignored).  1). It isn't rude to remind people that the corrals are there for a reason.  If they don't like being reminded and it is a source of tension or embarrassment for them, I don't give a shit and don't think anyone else does either.  2). The company pays to have the corrals built as a central collection point so their employees aren't wandering around the parking lot all day collecting stray carts (I've mentioned this before).  That costs the company even more money, hence the reason for the corrals.  3).  The cost of product increases as a result of corrals not being properly utilized.  4).  Increased prices in the store is what causes people to take their business elsewhere.  Not some random guy approaching customers in the parking lot.  How often does that happen anyway?

Hell, it's probably mostly other customers doing the harassing.  You know, the ones who actually return carts to their rightful place?  All of these things have been mentioned over and over.  So, where does the "people's feelings getting hurt" part come in?  Nobody cares about that.  It's not about being "rude".  It's about people being called out on their bullshit.

If grocery store management wanted to pay their employees to walk around the parking lot all day collecting carts, why spend the extra money providing corrals?  This is all very simple business strategy and is designed to benefit everyone involved.  People not returning carts is what I would consider to be rude and thoughtless.  People who just can't seem to be bothered with taking an extra minute or two (tops) to contribute to the cause.  To do their part so to speak.  After all, the carts are provided to customers as a service and convenience.  The least they could do is return the favor (cart).

That's the thing, who says it's bullshit?  It's not a law, it's just one's opinion.

A lot of people think it's selfish, thoughtless and lazy ass bullshit.  Yes, it is just an opinion.  Nobody ever said it was a law. 

[Samsara]

Hey. HEY. This thread was supposed to be fun. And it is fun. Let's all not take offense and just laugh at ourselves. KOX is, well, KOX. bosk is Vader reborn (we love you bosk) and Tim is...well, he's Tim and special.

PUT THE DAMN CARTS IN THE CORRAL YOU SAVAGES! 

[bosk1]

My take on everyone on that side of the arguement is that you are ok that YOU (and a small minority)  leave your cart wherever, so long as most other people are returning theirs.

Well, by including my name with that conclusion, you are either ignoring my posts or just being completely dishonest, because I have clearly said the opposition several times over.  Don't deliberately or negligently misquote me to make your position, please.  Stick with what I said, not what you wish I said.

What is it that you have said the opposition to?  I'm missing the point of what I've apparently misquoted you on.

You attributed to me, PG, and TAC by name, that we supposedly are, as you said, "ok that [WE] (and a small minority)  leave [our] cart wherever, so long as most other people are returning theirs."  I never said or implied any such thing, and have repeatedly said, in different variations, almost the opposite.  You are free to cite my actual opinion on matters.  But get it right instead of putting words in my mouth.

[bosk1]

Hey. HEY. This thread was supposed to be fun. And it is fun. Let's all not take offense and just laugh at ourselves. KOX is, well, KOX. bosk is Vader reborn (we love you bosk) and Tim is...well, he's Tim and special.

PUT THE DAMN CARTS IN THE CORRAL YOU SAVAGES! 

It mostly is fun.  But any thread ceases to be fun when people put words in others' mouths. 

[eric42434224]

One can state their opinion of what you and others do, and what the motives are, and even disagree with what you said.  That is different than misquoting someone.  Jingle did the former, and you are accusing him of the later.  At least that is my take on it.

[ReaperKK]

This thread just keeps on giving

[King Postwhore]

One can state their opinion of what you and others do, and what the motives are, and even disagree with what you said.  That is different than misquoting someone.  Jingle did the former, and you are accusing him of the later.  At least that is my take on it.

I say they have a cart off.  Only way to settle it.

[Samsara]

One can state their opinion of what you and others do, and what the motives are, and even disagree with what you said.  That is different than misquoting someone.  Jingle did the former, and you are accusing him of the later.  At least that is my take on it.

I say they have a cart off.  Only way to settle it.

Boom. Issue handled.

[jingle.boy]

You attributed to me, PG, and TAC by name, that we supposedly are, as you said, "ok that [WE] (and a small minority)  leave [our] cart wherever, so long as most other people are returning theirs."  I never said or implied any such thing, and have repeatedly said, in different variations, almost the opposite.  You are free to cite my actual opinion on matters.  But get it right instead of putting words in my mouth.

You're right, you never said such a thing.  I never said you said such a thing... I only posited MY opinion on the matter.  And if you DON"T believe what I posited, then are you implying that it is ok for EVERYONE to not return their cart, ever... anywhere?  I believe we all know your opinion on the matter.  I would like to hear your opinion on the matter that I *did* raise just above... would you be ok with EVERYONE not returning their carts - EVERY cart, at EVERY store, EVERYWHERE simply being left astray in parking lots?

[The Walrus]

You truly do have a blind spot for the situations where you demonstrate virtually exact behaviour that you criticize others over.

seriously

[bosk1]

I can't say whether it is "okay" or "not okay," because I don't think it's any of my (or anyone else's business) what "everybody" does. 

As for me personally, I don't leave my shopping cart "astray in parking lots."

[The Walrus]

I can't say whether it is "okay" or "not okay," because I don't think it's any of my (or anyone else's business) what "everybody" does. 

As for me personally, I don't leave my shopping cart "astray in parking lots."

Only thing this makes me think of:

[pg1067]

If all of you anit-corral people get your way and everyone just decided to leave there carts wherever in the parking lot instead of taking them to a corral, there would be no where to park. It would be the beginning of anarchy! 

Can I get that on a shirt?!

To the "anti-corral" people:

If you come out of the grocery store, and after putting the grocery bags in your car, you put the cart in the X area.  Perhaps from wind, not level pavement, you thought it was stopped but wasn't....whatever the reason.....your cart moves and damages someone else's car or property.

What would you do?  Would you accept responsibility?  Or would you say, "eh, not my problem".
I would hope that all of you would accept your legal and moral responsibility and pay for the damages.

For starters, "legal responsibility" doesn't get determined in a parking lot.  Moreover, when I leave my cart "on the X," I don't let go of it until I'm confident it's not going to move.  If it starts to move while I'm still there, I'll stop it.  If the great god Cartzalcoatl chooses to send my cart into spontaneous motion after I've left, there's nothing I can do about it.  Most importantly, how heavy are the carts where you live and how fast do they move that they pose any risk of significant damage?  The worst that's gonna happen is a minor scratch.  Also, maybe y'all shop at stores on the sides of mountains such that level parking lots are a big issue, but it sure isn't where I live.

Anyway, that's about it for me in terms of catching up on the explosion in this thread over the last 16 hours or so.   

[The Walrus]

Man... damage is still damage. If you open your car door and it hits somebody's car and it only left a small dent the owner of that car is not gonna be any less pissed just because it's a small ding, it's still damage that needs to be fixed, another hassle to be taken care of. It can be avoided by putting the cart in the barricade designed to keep them in line. C'mon people. Am I taking crazy pills? Is there a gas leak?

[TAC]

Been enjoying catching up while having my lunch in the break room. Kind of makes me feel bad about leaving my scraps on the table.

[vtgrad]

The only safe place I can think of, other than the corral or the store, would be the grassy knoll that surrounds the light polls.  Is that the place you guys are talking about?

You know that there's someone on that grassy knoll, just out of sight, that's waiting to shoot that cart across the parking lot when they see their old high school government teacher.

Been enjoying catching up while having my lunch in the break room. Kind of makes me feel bad about leaving my scraps on the table.

Don't worry about it man... someone else will come along and take care of them scraps for you. 

[Dublagent66]

[Samsara]

Savages. Just savages. Think about the carts man. They have feelings too. They don't want slam into cars. They just wanna go home. Take 'em to the corrals, and stop abandoning them to be abused. Heartless.

[jingle.boy]

Thank god for the return of the fun(ny).  The last few posts brought a nice chuckle.